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Archive for Wednesday, March 22, 2006

Judge denies lower bail for fire suspect

Fellow church members offer housing to Jason Rose

March 22, 2006

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The man accused of setting a deadly apartment fire is getting support from members of his church, some of whom have offered to take him into their homes if he's able to get out of jail on bond.

An attorney for Jason A. Rose told a judge Tuesday that if Rose is able to make bond before trial, he could stay with one of several people from Victory Bible Church who have offered to take him in. Attorney Tim Frieden cited that support as one reason to lower Rose's $500,000 bond to between $50,000 and $100,000.

But prosecutor Amy McGowan said she opposed making it easier for Rose to get out of jail, given the death and destruction caused by the Oct. 7 fire at Boardwalk Apartments.

In the end, Judge Jack Murphy declined Rose's request, saying he thought $500,000 was appropriate given the severity of the charges: three counts of murder, one count of aggravated arson and eight counts of aggravated battery.

Rose entered a not-guilty plea to those charges Tuesday. Murphy set Rose's trial for Sept. 18.

The names of people offering to house Rose weren't mentioned during Tuesday's hearing.

But afterward, Victory Bible's pastor, the Rev. Leo Barbee Jr., said he wasn't surprised people from the church were showing their support.

"I'm sure there's a bunch of them, because we don't really think he's guilty," Barbee said. "We don't think there was any intention" of burning down the building.

Barbee said congregation members had been writing letters to Rose and paying him visits since he was arrested and charged with setting the fire.

At a preliminary hearing last month, a detective testified that Rose admitted setting a box full of paperwork on fire on the balcony of the 76-unit building. He told police it was full of cards and pictures from his parents and that he was angry about receiving it.

Rose grew up in foster care but had moved out on his own just weeks before the fire. His attorneys argued at the preliminary hearing that there was no evidence he actually meant to burn down the building.

The fire killed Kansas University student Nicole Bingham, electrician Jose Gonzalez and social worker Yolanda Riddle.

6News reporter/anchor Janet Reid contributed information to this article.

Comments

dozer 8 years ago

Marion, short and sweet babe, keep it short and sweet

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janniebullinlawrence 8 years ago

I say we all pray in a kumbaya circle and ask to free the BKB killer, he can live with oldenuf.

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Marion Lynn 8 years ago

I DON'T CARE IF IT RAINS OR FREEZES AS LONG AS I GOT MY PLASTIC JESUS RIDIN' ON THE DASHBOARD OF MY CAR

THROUGH MY TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS AND MY TRAVELS THROUGH THE NATION WITH MY PLASTIC JESUS I'LL GO FAR

RIDIN' DOWN THE THOROUGHFARE WITH A NOSE UP IN THE AIR A WRECK MAY BE AHEAD BUT HE DON'T MIND

TROUBLE COMIN' HE DON'T SEE HE JUST KEEPS HIS EYE ON ME AND ANY OTHER THING THAT LIES BEHIND

CHORUS WITH MY PLASTIC JESUS GOODBYE AND I'LL GO FAR I SAID WITH MY PLASTIC JESUS SITTING ON THE DASHBOARD OF MY CAR

WHEN I'M IN A TRAFFIC JAM HE DON'T CARE IF I SAY DAMN I CAN LET ALL MY CURSES ROLL

'COS JESUS' PLASTICO DOESN'T HEAR 'COS HE'S GOT A PLASTIC EAR THE MAN WHO INVENTED PLASTIC SAVED MY SOUL

CHORUS

AND IF I WEAVE AROUND AT NIGHT POLICEMEN THINK I'M VERY TIGHT THEY NEVER FIND MY BOTTLE THOUGH THEY ASK

'COS PLASTIC JESUS SHELTERS ME FOR HIS HEAD COMES OFF YOU SEE HE'S HOLLOW AND I USE HIM LIKE A FLASK

WOA WOA WOA

SAVE ME

I DON'T CARE IF IT'S DARK OR SCARY LONG AS I GOT MAGNETIC MARY RIDIN' ON THE DASHBOARD OF MY CAR

I FEEL THAT I'M PROTECTED AMPLY I'VE GOT THE LOVE OF THE WHOLE DAMN FAMILY RIDIN' ON THE DASHBOARD OF MY CAR

WITH MY PLASTIC JESUS I SAID GOODBYE AND I'LL GO FAR

AND I SAID WITH MY PLASTIC JESUS I SAID SITTING ON THE DASHBOARD OF MY CAR

OUTRO WHEN I'M GOIN' FORNICATIN' I'VE GOT MY CERAMIC SATAN SITTIN' ON THE DASHBOARD OF MY CAR WOMEN KNOW I'M ON THE LEVEL THANKS TO THE WIDE-EYED STONEWARE DEVIL SNEERIN' FROM THE DASHBOARD OF MY CAR


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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years ago

Marion, what does any of this have to do with Christianity? If John Wayne Gacy was a clown (which he was) do we villify all who wear clown make-up? Do we start doing our own taxes if he was a CPA?

The Bible is filled with examples of men and women who committed atrocities, only to find God as a result. Your "point" is pointless.

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Marion Lynn 8 years ago

Famous "Church" people:

Ivan The Terrible: Russian Orthodox

Pope Pius XII: Cooperated with the Nazis to work the Holocaust.

Richard The Lionheart: Murdered thousands of Muslims in the Crusades.

Brigham Young: Ordered the killing of 120 people at Mountain Meadows.

Pope Innocent III: Ordered the massacre of the Cathars leading up to the Burning Times.

Various Christian Knights: The Murder of Thomas Beckett.

Australian Christians: Ordered the extermination of the Aboriginal Peoples.

Spanish Led "conquerers": Gave the Native Americans on two contintents the command "Convert Or Die" and since this command was generally pronounced in Spanish or Latin, nerither of which the Natives understood, enough died until the others got the idea.

Jefrey Dahmer: Grew up in a fundamentalist Christain household.

Rev. Jim Jones: Jonestown ring any bells?

The IRA: Many Irish Republican and British Loyalist paramilitaries, UVF, IRA and LVF involved in the war in Ulster are "Born Again" Christians. Likewise, many former members of The Shankill Butchers of Ireland, the most savage band of killers in the history of Great Britain, call themselves "Born Again" Christians.

A few "Born Again" Christians:

Mark Chapman, John Lennon's murderer, calls himself a "Born Again" Christian.

Jeffrey Dahmer, cannibalistic murderer of 15 people, was the son of "Born Again" Christian father of the Church of Christ, and was re-baptised in prison.

David Berkowitz, the "Son of Sam" serial killer, calls himself a "Born Again" Christian.

Charles Tex Watson, henchman of Charles Manson's gang that slew the folks at Sharon Tate's home, calls himself a "Born Again" Christian.

Susan Smith of the USA., who murdered her two children had a "Born Again" Christian father who sexually molested her. He was never brought to court.

Andrea Yates drowned all five of her children, ages 6 months to 7 years, in the home bathtub (June 2001), and she called herself a "Born Again" Christian. A writer commented how "the Yates family was deeply steeped in Christianity."

Ted Bundy, executed serial killer, called himself a "Born Again" Christian.

Velma Barfield, executed murderess, called was a "Born Again" Christian.

Myra Hindley, child-killer, is a "Born Again" Christian.

Sean Sellers, executed murderer of his parents, called himself a "Born Again" Christian.

Karla Faye Tucker, executed pick-axe murderess, called herself a "Born Again" Christian.

Henry Lee Lucas, multiple murderer and "Born Again" Christian.

"Duch," the nickname of Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge mass murdering executioner, commander of Tuol Sleng detention centre, Cambodia, calls himself a "Born Again" Christian.

Thanks.

Marion.

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spipp33 8 years ago

Just ignore JB, shes a bitter old hag who thinks shes better than everyone else.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years ago

Jannie, I'll just repeat what I wrote before:

It is becoming VERY clear that you don't understand the Christian faith. If you want to know more, e-mail me.

And no, for the record, if Charles Manson "sucks up to a minister" he probably shouldn't be considered "redeemed" in any way. Salvation has nothing to do with human authority.

I'm wondering Jannie: is it that you have a conception of what God will and will not forgive, and that murder is "off the list"; or is it that you do not have any idea and are just giving your own ideas about justice without any concern for spiritual/Biblical ideas?

Thank you Wonderhorse. It's a sad day when the Christian has to turn to the athiest for help in matters of doctrine, but I guess today is that day.

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roadrunner 8 years ago

I am not an atheist, I have read THE, not MY book, but I still don't believe all sins will be forgiven. I prefer to use the bible as a refernce, not a verbatim, word for word book to live my life by. I am done posting for today, because the posters on this site are way toooooo literal for me.

Enjoy your debate.

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wonderhorse 8 years ago

I am an atheist, but even I know that the Xtian god is a forgiving god and will forgive all sins. Sheesh, don't you guys read your own book!

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roadrunner 8 years ago

Jannie-- I personally don't believe that you can kill and be forgiven, but I think there are a lot of misconceptions about what church has to offer, and that is one of them, especially for a young person who is as troubled and as mentally challenged as Jason Rose is. I think you need to chill out and read between the lines! I guess you think I'm an atheist or something, but how would you know....

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roadrunner 8 years ago

No, I do think he is was/is a regular member of VBC. That's what I mean. He went to church before he started setting fires, so maybe more church isn't what he needs.

I was responding to badgers post about needing church when things get bad. And I just feel that you don't have to be religious and go to church to help someone. I am not a social worker, but he sure could have used a good one with or with out religion being in the picture. Is it bad that his church is standing behind him? Absolutely not! Does church make you a better person just because you attend. Absolutely not.

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janniebullinlawrence 8 years ago

I don't need help with God from someone who thinks one can kill and be forgiven. I suppose you think Charles Manson should also be free if he simply sucks up to a minister.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years ago

Roadrunner:

Why do you assume that his church involvement is a recent conversion? Believe me: church people screw up, too. I was assuming that he is a regular member of VBC.

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roadrunner 8 years ago

Yeah, church is where you need to be if you recently become a pyro and need forgiveness! I thought you needed church weekly. Hmm, does it say that in the bible?

He doesn't necessarily need church, he needs guidance, counseling and attention from anyone who will give it to him!

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badger 8 years ago

OldEnuf speaks sense.

No one is saying he shouldn't go to jail if he's found guilty, and most are happy about the fact that the lowered bail was denied. No one's saying he isn't responsible.

Most of us are just saying that it's good that his church is there for him, because when things are really really bad, well, that's when you need a church.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years ago

Jannie, if you want to learn about Christianity, e-mail me and we'll talk. What you just posted shows that you don't have a very good understanding of who the Christ was and what he accomplished.

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janniebullinlawrence 8 years ago

I would tend to agree the guy is a danger. It never ceases to amaze me how the Christian sect thinks they supercede justice. Simply because one prays for salvation does not mean it will be. I might add that the guy broke the #1 commadment by killing. I think Marion and Confrontation are correct.

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Confrontation 8 years ago

Sorry, this website is too slow

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Confrontation 8 years ago

Craigers: No UFC or dog/cock fighting

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Confrontation 8 years ago

Craigers: No UFC, dog/cock fighting

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assistant1234 8 years ago

I don't think its terribly unusual for friends, family, church communities, etc. to offer to house someone who is in trouble, guilty or not. Christians are kind of big on the whole forgiveness/love thy enemy sort of thing. Did it ever occur to any of you that LJW only put that in there to ignite (nonexistent) controversy, and to get a little jab at the churchfolk? Who really cares, the man didn't get released anyway.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years ago

Is anyone here saying he should NOT do jail time? I just wonder why we are so quick to put somone under the jail for doing things that were not intended to do harm? I'm reading a lot into this, but NO, I don't think he was intending to do anything more than burn some papers.

Why didn't he call 911? He was terrified? He was caught off guard? He's not a quick thinker? There are a lot of reasons outside of "he's a homicidal maniac who gets his jollies watching people burn to death".

When I was younger I did a LOT of things that could have gotten someone killed. I was just young and stupid, not murderous. Why does everyone assume the worst about people?

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Centrist 8 years ago

Oh, and .... here's the part that gets me ... why didn't he call 911 the SECOND the fire got out of the box?? Was he trying to put it out?? Why wasn't he yelling and screaming and trying to get people out? Because it wasn't just a little fire in a box, in my opinion. This guy burnt the place down because he WANTED to.

Give me a break. This punk did something atrocious and you all want to feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for the victims. It's bloody horrible what they went through. Some of them would have had burns and survived, too ..

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Centrist 8 years ago

That 'kid' knew what fire was.

That 'kid' set fire to a whole box of stuff, or so he alleges.

A bit different to a dog crap joke. And besides, when we rang the bell, we waited in the distance, or behind bushes, to see if someone would answer, right?

Plus - we're really ignoring this today - the guy is an ADULT, not a 10 year old kid.

He absolutely MUST feel the weight of his actions. How else can he REALIZE just how BAD it was??

I'm fairly liberal with regard to social issues, but the 'kid' must pay ... he just has to!

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years ago

When I was a teen, my brother and I lit fire to a paper bag full of dog crap on a nieghbor's porch, rang the doorbell, and ran. That house was all wood. Do I think there was much risk of a fire? No... but what if it had caught fire? Our little joke could have been deadly. I can't imagine what it would be like to be spending major jail time for that impulsive act.

I have sympathy for all involved, the victims as well as the perpetrator. Confrontation speaks as one who has no grace at all toward other people. My guess is that he had one of those dads who criticized everything he did as a child, teaching him that real men don't cut others any slack.

That kid had no idea that he was making a choice that was going to kill others. Honestly, I think he needs some therapy and such, and some jailtime, but the truth of the matter is that his memory of having burned others to death is probably a fair punishment all its own. Jail time or not, he'll suffer every day for what he's done.

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Centrist 8 years ago

Marion --- "Don't Panic" :)

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Centrist 8 years ago

Legally speaking, I'm glad the judge said "no".

Simple - if I did something like that "kid" did (he is an adult, folks!) then I would expect the full weight of not only the law, but of my actions, to sink in. Nothing has sunk in to this guy yet. He's playing that same old game of abandoning responsibility that is so rampant these days.

Now we have the church involved. With their considerable political weight and "good" nature, I wouldn't mind betting that they either get him off the murder charges, or at least reduce his punishment.

Sorry to offend religious people viewing this, but the church should stay out of it or keep their involvement quiet until the trial is over. Gawd knows the ljworld will print every detail ...

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craigers 8 years ago

What games do you like? Are you an UFC type of guy?

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craigers 8 years ago

I don't remember ever saying I haven't been judgemental in the past. I've been called on it and admitted that I was wrong. Hypocrites mean saying somebody is doing something wrong and saying they would never do that or haven't done that. I didn't say that I was never judgemental. Good try though Confrontation!!! Maybe we can play again later.

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jfgibson 8 years ago

This is crazy to me that so many people think that this kid shouldn't be taking responsibility for what he has done. Whether he "meant" to start the fire or not the point is that he DID. As a result of his irresponsible actions people died. He should be punished for what he has done. He had a choice to start the fire or to just throw the box of stuff away.

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Confrontation 8 years ago

I am definitely a judgemental person. When did I say I wasn't? Aren't you judgemental, since you are judging me as judgemental? I'm sure I could find all sorts of judgemental writings in your previous posts. Ahhh, religious hypocrites. Here's some humor writing for you:

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." (Matthew 7:1-5 RSV)

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Marion Lynn 8 years ago

Joshof02 wrote:

"Posted by Joshof02 (anonymous) on March 22, 2006 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I certainly am glad that we have someone here on the LJW message boards to keep us in line on every single issue. Thanks, Marion, I don't know what the rest of us would do without your ever-present posting to remind us that you're a certified expert on life, the universe and everything else."

Marion writes:

The question is, "The answer to the Great Question of Life, the Universe and Everything?" and I do knkow the answer.

The answer is, of course, 42.

Thanks.

Marioni.

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craigers 8 years ago

Are your comments were written like a true judgemental person. You have no idea what that church does to support people and what the individuals do in regards to helping kids out that are in tough situations. Since you don't know what they do, how can you stand by and say they are taking the easy way out?

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Confrontation 8 years ago

craigers: spoken like a true religious person

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consistently_voluminous 8 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Jamesaust 8 years ago

$50k is ridiculous. Regardless of eventual guilt or innocence, at this time there is considerable proof that the defendant is a credible threat to others.

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wordsofwisdom 8 years ago

Intentional or not...whatever happed to good ole' fashioned RESPONSIBLITY For our actions. He stared a fire that killed 3 people and injured several others. "Not intentional" doesn't mean "not guilty". If he would accept some responsiblity and his church members would acknowlege his responsiblity, they wouldnt appear to be as insensitive as they are. Of all things the church should teach responsiblity along with repentance and forgiveness of mistakes and sins.......Amen

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craigers 8 years ago

Confrontation, your comments aren't even worth a response.

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Confrontation 8 years ago

So, where were all these wonderful church-goers when this kid needed a stable home? Maybe they should be rescuing these types of kids from foster care. Of course, it's easier for them to wait until a crime is committed and they know there's no possibility of lowering the bail. Then, they all step forward in the name of their God to offer help that they know they will never really have to give. No surprise here. Marion is the only one making sense here. This punk is an arsonist, whether he meant to burn down the building or not.

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badger 8 years ago

I tend to agree with craigers on this. It is good to see that the church is standing by its member when he is in trouble. A church is supposed to be your community, your support network, and if they were to abandon someone at a time like this, when he really probably most needs the comfort of faith, it would be a disservice to what they say their mission is.

It's easy to have faith when life is good. Then your fellow churchgoers are just a nice bunch of people you see now and then. It's much harder to have it when you're in trouble, and sometimes your fellow church members are the only people that will remind you that your god still loves you no matter how flawed you are.

I'm glad the bond didn't get lowered (I didn't particularly think it would be), but I'm equally glad to see his community of faith hasn't deserted him or cast him out.

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Joshof02 8 years ago

I certainly am glad that we have someone here on the LJW message boards to keep us in line on every single issue. Thanks, Marion, I don't know what the rest of us would do without your ever-present posting to remind us that you're a certified expert on life, the universe and everything else.

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citizenatlarge 8 years ago

Rev. Barbee makes a good point about intent. The kid screwed up. But what about the guilt of the property owner? The fire investigators have said that the reason the death and destruction were so great was the result of this being an absolute fire trap due to the condition and construction of the property. If the kid had made this same mistake somewhere else, the result would have been quite different.

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brookcreeker 8 years ago

I know what church I'll be joining if I ever develop any homicidal tendencies...

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craigers 8 years ago

I'm glad Marion has never had trouble and didn't need people that believe others can change and that believe the best in people. You don't know this guy and neither do I. Keep on making assumptions Marion. It would be good for kids to realize that mistakes happen and people can change.

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Marion Lynn 8 years ago

Yes, it is good thing that church members are willing to expose themselves, thier children, the children of others and the public in general to the dangers posed by releasing this firebug into a private home.

I am certain that with adequete prayer and the mumbling of appropriate incantations that the pyro would be cured of his prediliction to burn alive folks in their residences.

Yeah, right.

Thanks.

Marion.

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craigers 8 years ago

I am glad that the church is standing behind him. I know a lot of people will say how this church has a lot of problem children in it, but hey we have all had problems and they are showing what the true spirit of the church should be, and that is to stick behind somebody during their good and bad times. However, I think it was definitely a reach to try to get the bond lowered due to the charges. $50K when you are on trial for 3 deaths, I don't think so.

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