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Archive for Tuesday, March 21, 2006

Sebelius vetoes concealed carry, chamber’s workers’ comp bill

March 21, 2006

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— Gov. Kathleen Sebelius today vetoed bills that would have allowed the carrying of concealed guns and resulted in the reduction of benefits to some injured workers.

Sebelius said the concealed carry legislation would have made Kansas less safe.

"While every law-abiding Kansan has a right to keep and bear arms, hidden weapons make it harder for law enforcement to do its job, and they make Kansas' workplaces less safe," Sebelius said.

The measure adopted by the House and Senate would have allowed law-abiding Kansans to receive a permit to carry a hidden gun. Sebelius vetoed a similar measure in 2004.

On the workers' comp bill, Sebelius said the legislation would have penalized injured workers. The measure expanded the definition of pre-existing condition that would in some cases lead to reduced benefits for injured workers.

Sebelius said the bill was unnecessary because workers' comp benefits in Kansas were already among the lowest in the nation.

She also said the bill was over-broad.

"The Legislature's proposal would also allow a worker to be terminated simply because of an injury on the job," Sebelius said. "That's a slap in the face to the men and women who work hard every day to do their jobs in a safe and efficient manner, and it's simply wrong."

To override a governor's veto, the House and Senate must gain two-thirds vote. That would be 84 votes in the 125-member House and 27 votes in the 40 member Senate.

Comments

xenophonschild 8 years, 9 months ago

Good for you, Kathleen! It' about time a politician stands up for what's right, instead of what's always popular. We don't need any more guns, and workers need a fair shake inre compensation.

RaetherEnt 8 years, 9 months ago

Would I expect anything else coming out of Lawrence? Why don't you TWO start wearing t-shirts something to the effect of..."I AM NOT ARMED, AND THEREFORE A CHOSEN VICTIM OF CRIME". Fools. Fools. Fools. When you ARE a victim of a crime, beat 'em off with your flowers.

KsjKC 8 years, 9 months ago

RaetherEnt

Make it three, gun-boy. I WAS a victim of crime and being armed would have done nothing for me. Laws that make it easier to conceal are in direct correlation with higher crime-levels, whether you like it or not. I love freedom as much as you do, and believe in the right to bear arms. There is no need in this state to carry and conceal. If you disagree, let your rep know and get an override...but stop name-calling your opponents.

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

Good for you, Kathy, for making sure Kansas is one of the states that is the most expensive for businesses, and for making sure businesses continue to be stuck paying for employees' pre-existing injuries and health problems under the incredibly expensive and cumbersome workers comp insurance program.

tolawdjk 8 years, 9 months ago

Not that I am against concealed carry, but just where are the shoot outs at the O-K corral that are a result of someone getting pulled on and then finding out that the victim was armed?

Where?

Yeah, there are studies that say crime has gone down where it has been inacted, but I fail to believe its cause criminals think that the target might be armed. Criminals aren't known to be powerful thinkers in the first place.

Aiko 8 years, 9 months ago

Not a good move for Kathleen. You watch and see....

RaetherEnt 8 years, 9 months ago

The fact of the matter is that in EVERY SINGLE STATE that has approved concealed carry, violent crime has gone down dramatically. And, coincidentally, in cities that have banned handguns all together, (DC, Chicago ) the murder rate has gone through the roof. Do you anti's not understand that an armed society is a polite society? How many more statistics do you need? Bad guys are going to carry guns ANYWAYS! They don't take a 12 hour class on handgun safety, (which I have) and then take a 14 hour class on advanced personal protection, (which I have) and then take an advanced tactical handgun class...(whick I have) and on and on and on. Bad guys also dont get fingerprinted, go through an advanced background check, and get liscenced to carry a weapon concealed before they decide to carry.

Oh, by the way...It will make you anti's sick, but I can carry anyways, legally in over 30 states. Just not in her highnesses republik of kansas.

xenophonschild 8 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, well, go pack in one of those thirty other states, 'cause you're not going to indulge in macho fantasies in Kansas.

The only people who should, or need to, pack guns are the police. And Godot, nobody is waiting . . . for you to make sense. Kansas' business climate is strong, thanks in part to Gov. Sebelius, and will continue to strengthen.

RaetherEnt 8 years, 9 months ago

Hey xeno...take off the Birkenstock on your right foot and smack yourself in the forehead a few times. It's got nothing to do with "macho fantasies". It has to do with the fact that A GUN took a knife out of the hand of a man who had it at my wife's throat over her $18 purse. It's PERSONAL to me, not a "macho fantasy". Ponder that one over your ouija board.

Besides...Kansas will fall anyways, and sooner than you think WILL IN FACT be a concealed carry state. We simply have to wait until a brain enters the governors mansion.

RaetherEnt 8 years, 9 months ago

By the way, my wife carries also, as she herself was a victim of a violent rape...Something that according to the KBI happens every seven hours in Kansas.

RaetherEnt 8 years, 9 months ago

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud

PS...He was a liberal too. Fortunately he made his conclusions based on intellect, not emotions.

xenophonschild 8 years, 9 months ago

What about the quality of our lives, our civilization? Do we live in the Wild West, with outlaws lurking on every street corner, every alley? No. Having common citizens carrying concealed weapons is the equivalent of towns and cities in ancient Roman provinces deciding to build walls around their perimeters to ward off marauders. We have not reached that level of social disintegration, yet, and those of you who insist on doing so are, unfortunately, needlessly juvenile.

compmd 8 years, 9 months ago

I am curious, if the conceal-carry bill passes, how many criminals will simply upgrade? Sure, great if the kwikie mart clerk has a pistol, but mr. masked robber will just make sure he brings his AK.

Steve Jacob 8 years, 9 months ago

With no major challenger in the election, she has the power. And remember Graves vetoed the bill also, and he had guns.

dthroat 8 years, 9 months ago

How about another angle to think about. When you law abiding citizens with the right to carry gets into a confrontation (maybe downtown - maybe west lawrence in daylight) when the police pull up how are they supposed to know the good from the bad.

How about if you are just out and not in a situation and somebody sees you are carrying. Be prepared to facing drawn guns from the cops. THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE THE TIME TO ASK THE QUESTION MORE THAN ONCE.

Make damn sure you do what the man tells you to do. If you don't I don't want to hear any bitching if you get "treated badly" by being put on the ground and manhandled. There will be no sign on your back to let the cops know you are a "law abiding citizen" or a bad guy.

And if you get shot because you don't drop it or respond to commands quickly, again I don't want to hear about it here. Take your lumps (or shots) quietly. This is what you want.

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

And, thank goodness, Graves, the ethically and intellectually challenged one, is gone. Hopefully the same will soon apply to Sebelius, who will leave office having accomplished less than any other governor in Kansas history. Hopefully, next time we'll get someone in office who, 1) honors the trust placed in the office of the governor (which Graves did not) and 2) realizes that the job of the governor is to lead, not wait for others to lead, and then obstruct, a la Sebelius.

We need someone who cares more about the future of Kansas than she does about her own political future.

mikeyboy 8 years, 9 months ago

Boy am I glad that this nonsense was vetoed. Now we can get on with the business of saving people from themselves. Here is Gov. Kathy's to-do list...

1) Revoke private pilots licenses. If we keep handing these out to the public, someone is bound to fly one of those airplane thingies into the Power and Light building! Citizens cannot be trusted in the air, by themselves, for goodness sake! Only the airlines should have a license to fly, because as soon as you give one to a law abiding citizen who has passed a background check and has completed a training course, he OBVIOUSLY will become a homicidal maniac. This is job one.

2) I stopped by the local sporting goods store today and was OUTRAGED at the ease with which one can acquire an instrument of death. Oh sure, they may look harmless, but please don't be fooled by the "Little League Baseball" logo. These so-called "baseball bats" and clearly weapons of war!! Combined with the body armor known as "catcher's gear", the police and decent citizens don't stand a chance! How can the public at large continue to tolerate this injustice??!?

Seriously people. This legislation would give law-abiding citizens the right to legally carry a firearm. Let me let you all in on a secret...the criminals are already carrying weapons. Scandalous as it may seem, apparently the bad people in Kansas don't worry about permits and such. If someone had the intention of using a handgun in a malicious manner, my question is why in the world would they go to the trouble of attending a training course, and being fingerprinted by the state? The thought process here leading to the conclusion that people who are licensed to carry are somehow "dangerous" to society is nothing more than pure liberal bunk.

I can't think straight. I need to go have a latte and watch Queer Eye. Peace out.

bert 8 years, 9 months ago

i just couldn't read all these comments, but you gun toters ought to know about the 21 foot rule. if you've ever been trained to carry a handgun (we're not talking about long guns here), you should know that the very best you can do if someone is coming at you, if they are within 21 feet, they're going to get to you before you can get your weapon out and into use. there is some controversy about this and some of it is valid. it is usually taught in refernce to defese against edged weapons along with open handed combat. i always used that rule and it works. learn to fight with your hands before you buy that gun. our elected representatives owe us better than this at the end of their session.

usaschools 8 years, 9 months ago

Thank you Governor Sebelius! The worker's comp bill was an anti-union measure that did not benefit working Kansans in ANY way. I appreciate you doing the right thing while the legislature worries about special interests instead of Kansans. Where do you think a bill like this originates? Not with a grassroots effort of the people, that is for darn sure. It originated with some special interests who would profit from it. You did the right thing!

RaetherEnt 8 years, 9 months ago

Nobody here that is against this has presented a single fact to justify why law-abiding, properly trained citizens of the State of Kansas should not be allowed by law to carry concealed firearms. Everything is "what if this" and "what if that?"

The fact of the matter is that all the same "what if's" etc. were all asked by the same people who were against concealed carry laws in the other 46 states that now have passed this law. And guess what? None of their "what if's" have come to fruition.

"What if" concealed carry holders feel like Dirty Harry's roaming the streets and the violent crime rates skyrocket?

Hasn't happened. In EVERY single state that has passed this law, the violent crime rate has been reduced significantly.

"What if", with people carrying weapons concealed in public, the firearm accidental shooting rates increase?

Hasn't happened. The FBI and concealed carry accidental shooting incident statistics show no rise whatsoever in accidental shootings, and in most states, incidentally, that number has DECREASED.

"What if" police are unable to decipher between bad guys and good guys in a self-defense shooting and the police shoot a law-abiding citizen?

Hasn't happened. Not once. Concealed carry classes teach many legal aspects of posession of a firearm, and dealing with officers of the law is one of them.

"What if" bad guys decide to arm themselves "better" because they know that law-abiding citizens are carrying guns?

Ummm...the bad guys have been arming themselves better and better for years. What are YOU doing?

And the topper...from the Governor hersself...

"Law enforcement officers will have to assume that every citizen is armed..."

Law enforcement officers are TRAINED to assume that every person they encounter is armed. The last person they need to worry about is a law-abiding citizen who has taken the initiative to be correctly trained in both the legal aspects of concealed carry, and the safe operation of a firearm. The ones they need to worry about are the criminals who carry anyways, and have no respect for the law or human life.

The facts speak for themselves folks. Call me a gun-nut, a redneck, whatever you wish, but your arguments don't hold water. Show me opinions based on FACT, not emotional or political views against this legislation. Show me FACTS, and then we can have a rational discussion.

Oh...this just in, Fox 4 news Kansas City, 9:16 p.m. Carjacking in Kansas City, Kansas. I'm sure the perp was legally carrying a concealed firearm...

Moderateguy 8 years, 9 months ago

Well said Mikey. It's as if those against CCW believe the legislation somehow makes it legal to have a wild west shootout at the shopping mall because somebody looked at someone funny. It does NOT! Everything that was illegal before will still be illegal, except for the right to carry a weapon concealed by someone who has passed the background check and the course. If that person even flashes the gun for the wrong reason, they are charged with a crime. The list of what someone cannot do is still the same except for one little thing for a very select group of people. I challenge anyone of those against CCW to provide any proof of their fears of the "Wild West" in any state that has CCW. It just hasn't happened.

optimist 8 years, 9 months ago

Get a grip. The workers comp laws need updating. Abuse is common and the law favors the employee even when every indication is that the employee may be committing fraud.

An example I can share is that of an employee of a former company I worked for. This employee had been a guitarist for many years. The employee practiced frequently and performed regularly in front of live audiences. After one day on the job at my company the employee went to a personal doctor and was diagnosed with carpal tunnel. The employee then reported the diagnosis to my company the next day, failing to inform the company about playing the guitar which was the likely cause of the injury as carpal tunnel develops over a long period, not a single day. None-the-less the small business I worked for was forced to pay for the employee's care which ultimately raised workers comp costs and affected future earnings for me and my fellow co-workers. Even after the company became aware of the employees omission and reported it to their insurance carrier.

Another example was an employee who had worked for the company for some time. During a routine physical the employee was diagnosed with a repetitive motion injury. The employee stated the injury was originally suffered while working for another larger company. This was irrelevant, like a hot potato the cost of this injury was passed along from a large company to a local small company.

There are problems with the workers comp system and don't ever think the companies pay for it. When company's costs go up the rest of the workforce pays for it in slower wage growth.

Those of you who enjoy so much sticking it to "Corporate America" fails to realize another's windfall is at your expense. Corporations do not pay taxes, payroll taxes or for workers compensation insurance or unemployment insurance. You and I do. These costs are built into the price of goods and the salaries of their employees. As these costs go up the results are either an increase in the cost of the goods sold or a reduction in employee compensation. Companies must make a profit to stay in business. They will always protect their margins. That's what companies in a free market do.

optimist 8 years, 9 months ago

tolawdjk:

Nobody suggest criminals are great thinkers but everyone possesses a level of self preservation. Criminals being the most selfish of us know what dead means and rest assured they are too selfish to die.

In the early 90's after a few years of concealed carry in Florida there was a rash of crimes against tourists leaving airports in rental cars clearly marked as rentals. As a result of this rental cars in Florida began to be tagged like any other car so they didn't stand out.

During the investigation it was found out that the groups perpetrating these crimes did so purely in response to the concealed carry law. I will never forget the quote of one of those convicted of these violent crimes. He said "we robbed them because we knew they didn't have guns".

During this time crimes in hotels and against hotel guests also increased in Florida. I thing it's safe to assume those perpetrating these crimes used the same rationale.

The evidence is clear that violent crimes in other states declined after passing concealed carry. Unless you get your data from the HCI or the Brady Campaign you would know that.

kessman 8 years, 9 months ago

optimist,you think you are smart,but actually pretty ignorant in reality.are you fred phelps or the guy that has the answer for everything

admills 8 years, 9 months ago

Have you ever actually shot and killed someone? Has you ever seen what a well aimed round does to human flesh? If you have not, or are not prepared to end someone's life, why would you ever want or need to carry a concealed weapon? That gun is only needed to kill or maim another person (you're not quail hunting with a hidden handgun). Also, you can still carry a gun with the proper permit, you just cannot hide it.

fletch 8 years, 9 months ago

Way to go Kathleen. Take that 60% approval rating out for a spin. She just clinched Johnson County with this.

ouroboros 8 years, 9 months ago

Rest assured gunners, the legislature will override our govenor's COURAGEOUS veto. It's amazing that only four states have had the guts to stand up to one of the most influential lobbies in the country - let alone loudmouthed, power-hungry constituents. Kansas legislators don't have the balls to resist this bill. Obviously it's WAY easier to give in to the gunners - just like the other 46 states have done. It's already been well said, but if you're worried about the criminals, learn how to defend yourself without a gun.

topflight 8 years, 9 months ago

Great job Governor. Although it is hard for me to agree with the hippies here in Lawrence, i am going to have to. But don't worry, i will disagree with every other thing hippies want. As in gay marriage, uck.

RaetherEnt 8 years, 9 months ago

I have yet to get a single response that focuses on FACTS as the merit of your argument...why is that? If you are so dead set against it, you must have some type of reasonable, fact filled response to support your position right?

Probably not. Prove me wrong.

RaetherEnt 8 years, 9 months ago

Thats fine holygrailale, and what most people don't understand is that the first five points you make are covered EXTENSIVELY in any concealed carry class. And that is just the beginning. You also forgot..."Don't point ANY gun at anything you are not willing to shoot" and "Treat EVERY gun as if it were loaded."

I understand that you might not feel comfortable with your children playing around people you dont know that might have guns. That is reasonable.

I don't want to live like a Steven Segall movie either. I am anonymous on this board, so I talk more openly about my firearm beliefs. This being said, the only other people that even know I carry are my wife and very close friends. As far as carrying for a lifestyle, I do as soon as I cross the Missouri State line, as I am liscenced to do so there.

I don't live in a bad area, as a matter of fact, I live in a VERY NICE area, however, evil lurks everywhere. You see it in the news every night. McDonalds, churches, libraries, in parking lots, etc.

Concealed carry is not turning communities back to the Wild West, and the statistics prove it. Concealed carry LOWERS violent crime.

While I certainly respect your opinion and your beliefs, your post still lacks factual information that proves why any law-abiding citizen should not have the right to protect themselves and their family.

Guns in the open? Sure! I'm all for that! If I could do that, I personally would probably say "to hell" with concealed carry. Even though it is "on the books" so to speak, as being legal in the State of Kansas, the reality is, if I "open carry" in Lawrence, in Overland Park, in Kansas City, Kansas, or ANYWHERE else in the State of Kansas, I'm going to jail, period.

RaetherEnt 8 years, 9 months ago

Wow, I have to admit...I agree with EVERY SINGLE WORD you said. Situational awareness is the number one way to avoid becoming a victim. Bravo!

However, no matter how aware you may be of your enviroment, there ARE situations, when you may be called upon to defend the life or yourself, or your family. Agree?

As far as statistics, I know where you are going with this, and I agree as well. Statistically, you ARE more likely to be shot by a family member or someone you know. But...if you extrapolate THOSE statistics, I am sure you will find that when people are shot by family members or people they know, in a LARGE majority of the cases, the perps were people who were not supposed to own, or even be in the posession of a gun, i.e. Felons. I would be willing to bet you would be hard pressed to find incidents where the perp was a law-abiding, concealed carry permit holder.

Obviously, this is an assumption, however, I would be more than willing to research the statistics, as I feel I am finally having a rational conversation with someone on the "other side of the fence" so to speak. And I'll do it...Im pretty tenacious. :)

badger 8 years, 9 months ago

Y'know, I don't really object to concealed carry, but you know something funny?

The more I hear arguments about it, the more its advocates' behaviour and presentation convinces me it might not be a grand idea to let some of these people, like macon47, out there with concealed weapons.

People speaking against it are having no real effect on me, because if they say something idiotic I can console myself with, "At least they're going to be stupid and unarmed." But concealed carry advocates are turning out to be the most effective argument against it that I've seen.

doubltap 8 years, 9 months ago

Enough with all the macho gunslingers and silly liberal twits! Concealed carry will neither render Kansas more dangerous nor make it more safe. As in the other three dozen - plus states that have passed [and not seen fit to repeal] similar legislation into law, it will merely provide those having the stones to shoot the thugee bastards with legal access to the tools necessary to do so. 'Twill be fun to see whether or not our nimrods of the Kansas House and Senate will put paid to executive arrogance. Anyway, we need something to relieve March boredom...

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