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Archive for Monday, March 13, 2006

Concealed carry bill advanced

March 13, 2006

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House members today advanced a bill that would allow Kansans to carry concealed guns.

The measure, forwarded on a voice vote, requires another vote in the House, which will be made Tuesday.

It is expected to pass, and then would go back to the Senate for consideration of changes made to the bill in a House committee.

The Senate sponsor, Phil Journey, R-Haysville, said he would ask the Senate to accept the House changes. If the Senate agreed, the measure would be sent to Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, who vetoed a similar bill in 2004

Supporters of the bill, led by Rep. Candy Ruff, D-Leavenworth, hope to persuade a few more legislators to vote for the measure to override another possible veto.

Under the bill, Kansans who are 21 or older and U.S. citizens could obtain a four-year concealed carry permit by filling out an application with the local sheriff and paying a fee of up to $150.

The attorney general's office would issue the permits after conducting background checks to eliminate those with a felony record, a history of mental illness, drug or alcohol addiction, or a physical infirmity that would prevent safe handling of a weapon.

Permit applicants would be required to complete an eight-hour safety and training course by a firearms instructor certified by the attorney general or the National Rifle Assn.

Comments

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 1 month ago

C-man said, "I'll be carrying when the law is passed. Might walk around KCK at night to get in some target practice. LOL."

Assuming your displays of emotional and mental instability on this board aren't just a form of internet performance art, the above statement shows why any law that would allow you a concealed carry permit is a very dangerously flawed law.

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one_more_bob 8 years, 1 month ago

"Yes, Mrs. Jones, the science department at the junior high isn't so hot but we have a higher percentage of 50mm arms here than anywhere else in the State!!"

Just so you know, a 50mm firearm is an artillery piece. Anything 37mm or larger is usually called a cannon.

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conservativeman 8 years, 1 month ago

You're right. I'll should be watching "My little pony" and the "Care Bears" right now. I should embrace progessive ideology, kill my babies, demean women in pornographic rape videos, support egalitarianism and stifle individual achievement. .....................NAH, I continue to live in reality.

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conservativeman 8 years, 1 month ago

"People move away from crap like that. Property values fall. Etc, Etc."

Concealed carry is now going to lower our property values. Etc, Etc.

Concealed carry laws cause cancer in lab rats. Etc, Etc.

Concealed carry will cause the fall of the west. Etc, Etc.

"Holygrailale, what you have posted, is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever read. At no point, in your rambling incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul."

What will fall is the crime rate and criminals. Property values are going to fall because of the concealed carry law? Libtard moron hasn't a clue. (Professor Plum in the study with a revolver) LMAO

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Todd 8 years, 1 month ago

Legal use of deadly force is already on the books. Nothing changes with conceal weapon permits.

Here's what I don't get. Why are the people against concealed carry not 10x against illegal carry? Why be scared of law abiding people but not criminals? Perhaps it's just something they put out of their minds to sleep at night. Perhaps "good" people actually listen to their bitching.

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holygrailale 8 years, 1 month ago

Pilgrim:

What happens if it is another redneck who braces you for a couple of bucks? Another armed redneck who wants to shoot somebody.

Then you have redneck vs redneck action with widows / orphans and dead innocent bystanders as the result.

You would think that rednecks would be able to see the result of unlimited arms play in the African-american community and not want to repeat that scenario, but that ability doesn't exist as yet.

I don't care how "safe" YOU feel with a gun in your hand, no one wants to live / work / school / have fun around armed people.

People move away from crap like that. Property values fall. Etc, Etc.

"Yes, Mrs. Jones, the science department at the junior high isn't so hot but we have a higher percentage of 50mm arms here than anywhere else in the State!!"

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Pilgrim 8 years, 1 month ago

Posted by ben_ness (anonymous) on March 14, 2006 at 11:15 a.m.

but what about the guy who braces you for a couple of bucks? You going to blow him away after he pulls a knife?

If you are carrying a concealed weapon, you are licensed to carry it, and you have the chance, yes you do blow him away.


If he's dumb enough to bring a knife to a gunfight...

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ben_ness 8 years, 1 month ago

Moderator - then the abortion doctors could arm themselves and historians could call it "The Abortion Wars".

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ben_ness 8 years, 1 month ago

but what about the guy who braces you for a couple of bucks? You going to blow him away after he pulls a knife?

If you are carrying a concealed weapon, you are licensed to carry it, and you have the chance, yes you do blow him away. It is called either self defense or justifiable homicide. Too many criminals already carry concealed weapons and we can't fully control that. Law abiding citizens have the right to defend themselves and should have the right to legally carry a concealed weapon.

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moderator 8 years, 1 month ago

Conservatives need guns to shoot abortion doctors. End of story.

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Arminius 8 years, 1 month ago

xenophonschild:

"Especially you conservative Republican wannabee John Wayne tough-guys. Wheresmyshoes was right: let's impeach Bush, and hold on till we can get Hillary elected in 08, with William the Great as her chief advisor."

You just made my point again.

http://www.retroactiveimpeachment.com

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snuffysmif 8 years, 1 month ago

Well, at least Former President Clinton could argue a point without throwing his hands up and making it about something else. Your original point was that "Having a weapon predisposes the possessor to use it, instead of depending on alternatives and self-control." The fact is that regardless of how you feel about cowboys and television violence, that statement is not entirely true. Not even most of the time. Not often enough, in fact, for there to be any reason that ordinary law abiding citizens with some minimal training should be denied the right to carry firearms if they choose to.

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xenophonschild 8 years, 1 month ago

Arminius:

"From what I've seen here, your ammo box became empty years ago." (?)

Bottom line, who really wants to kill another human being? And, if so, for what? If someone's trying to rape your wife or harm your children, fine, but what about the guy who braces you for a couple of bucks? You going to blow him away after he pulls a knife?

Reality is, you pull a gun, you better be ready to use it. I suspect some of you would get bitch-slapped, your gun taken from you, and perhaps even used against you.

Especially you conservative Republican wannabee John Wayne tough-guys. Wheresmyshoes was right: let's impeach Bush, and hold on till we can get Hillary elected in 08, with William the Great as her chief advisor.

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Arminius 8 years, 1 month ago

xenophonschild:

"And I've been in many a tough spot before, unable to call the minions of the law, and depended on my wits and interpersonal skills to see me through."

You should consider yourself extremely lucky. From what I have seen here, your ammo box became empty years ago.

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xenophonschild 8 years, 1 month ago

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even when they're wrong, as so many of you obviously are. I hope Gov. Sebelius, a fellow liberal Democrat, will veto this legislation.

And I've been in many a tough spot before, unable to call the minions of the law, and depended on my wits and interpersonal skills to see me through. You all can and should do the same; it'll make you a better person, and a real cowboy, not some half-baked wannabee with a gun in his pocket.

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Pilgrim 8 years, 1 month ago

Posted by xenophonschild (anonymous) on March 13, 2006 at 8:42 p.m.

"We pay taxes to have armed, well-trained police provide law, order, and security. They should be enough."

Yup. That's why there is zero violent crime, because the cops are so adept at preventing crime rather than just reacting to it.

So, when do you start the petition drive to have the second amendment repealed?


BTW, all, when it comes to guns, the phrase is "draw down" on someone, not "throw down."

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snuffysmif 8 years, 1 month ago

And what's the discussion about anyway? Statistcs have shown that legally armed citizens do not pose any particular threat to public safety, so what is your business scolding those of us who want to carry a gun in our pockets? Maybe it's time to put away your juvinile tendency to pass judgement on every person who likes guns. You're going to have to get used to people being beyond your control. Maybe you could develop a relationship with a good therapist. The tendency to desire control is a tough one to work out of, as it is a fear based obsession. Good luck.

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conservativeman 8 years, 1 month ago

It is not a "John Wayne" complex, it is a constitutional liberty that was stolen from the citizen by an overreaching government. Liberty to be an independent adult, responsible for my own actions, my inactions and my own safety.

"Hey buddy, can you spare a couple of bucks, I'm hungry and haven't eaten in two days".

No

"come on, I know you got a couple of bucks"

NO

"See this knife, now I know you have a couple of bucks, and I want everything you got"

OK, It's right here, (pull out 9mm) how much lead would you like? One, two or three?

"Sorry buddy, I'll just leave"

NO, you'll lie down and wait for the police to get here, push the knife out to the side.

"Buddy, I don't want any trouble, I'll just leave now"

NO, lie still, the police are on the way.

POLICE: What happened?

(Criminal goes to jail, streets are safer and the good citizens have protected themselves.)

Happy ending

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snuffysmif 8 years, 1 month ago

So... who are you to say so? or are you just imposing your notions of common sense on us because you were born with hands to type them with.

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xenophonschild 8 years, 1 month ago

Were that all law-abiding citizens never experience any degree of emotional unheaval while they're packing. Suicide would probably be less of a concern if guns weren't so easily obtainable. And no one yet has commented on the mistakes that come with gun use - the accidental deaths and woundings.

We are not savages, and we do not live in a savage world . . . yet. This infatuation with guns - the John Wayne complex - is for juveniles and grown men who wear cowboy boots to work in an office and fantasize about blowing away the bad guys.

Grow up, and leave guns to those who must wear and use them.

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snuffysmif 8 years, 1 month ago

The last time I carried a firearm (it was a work related thing) I recall that the law held those of us who carried firearms to a somewhat higher standard than those who don't. That is...you shouldn't do anything with a firearm that twelve reasonable men wouldn't agree was necessary. So, throwing down on somebody with a .44 would be just as illegal as any other time. We're talking about law abiding citizens here. Were you thinking that concealed carry means that you are exempt from the laws that protect us all from one another, xenophonschild?

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conservativeman 8 years, 1 month ago

xenophonschild, Switzerland has the highest rate of gun posession in the world. It is required of every capable male to train in the use of a government issued weapon for defense. They have some of the lowest crime rates in the world and one of the oldest democracies.

I'll be carrying when the law is passed. Might walk around KCK at night to get in some target practice. LOL.

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snuffysmif 8 years, 1 month ago

and as for the well trained police, they are obviously not enough, or am I mistaken? I recall there being violent crime in this state, even with the current prohibition on the concealed carry of firearms.

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snuffysmif 8 years, 1 month ago

I agree that the matter is eating up entirely too much time and effort in legislature. It would be a good management move to just pass it and get it out of the way. I don't think I will get a license to carry, but it is probably a good idea to allow your law abiding citizens to be as free as possible. It seems a bit silly to restrict the civil rights and civil liberties of otherwise peaceful people.

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xenophonschild 8 years, 1 month ago

Let's take it up a level. Countries that strictly limit gun use and ownership have remarkably low rates of violent crime (Japan, Denmark, etc.). While your points are worthy, you neglect to note that the incidence of violent crime committed with guns is still very high in our country.

And yes, responsible people can generally be counted on to do the right thing, even with guns, but what about circumstances ostensibly beyond your control? A fender bender with an angry, abusive man; he goes to his car, maybe for a weapon. What do you do? Pull out your .44 and throw down on him?

No one mentioned the mistakes, the errors that lead to accidental gunshot wounds and deaths. Guns simply aren't worth it. We pay taxes to have armed, well-trained police provide law, order, and security. They should be enough.

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Moderateguy 8 years, 1 month ago

Interesting timing. If Sebelius is smart, she'll sign this fairly popular legislation and make it a non-issue in the next election. Of course, i've never thought of her as smart. I am completely in favor of letting the law abiding citizens have a choice to be prepared. As always, people should be held responsible for their actions should they break the law. Hopefully the current version of the legislation is veto proof.

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wheremyshoes 8 years, 1 month ago

How many trees will be cut down as a result of this legislation? Save a tree. Impeach Bush!

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Sigmund 8 years, 1 month ago

People who LEGALLY carry concealed weapons are predisposed to commit crimes? I really doubt it. People who illegally carry weapons, possibly. Although I do know a coed who carried a semi-auto .380 all 4 years at KU and she never committed a crime nor needed it to protect herself.

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Charles L Bloss Jr 8 years, 1 month ago

I am completely in favor of concealed carry in this state, as outlined in the bill. Kansas is one of only four states that does not have some form of concealed carry or gun permit. As usual, Kansas is behind the times. As far as Texas is concerned, they have had it for a number of years with very minimal problems. In States that have concealed carry, violent crime goes down. Thank you, Lynn

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Todd 8 years, 1 month ago

In FL the firearm crime rate was significantly lower for CCW permit holders than the general population. Hmm... (FL has one of the older CCW programs in place)

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one_more_bob 8 years, 1 month ago

BTW, legal concealed carry has not proved to be a problem in Texas, or any other state where it has become legal. Concealed carry is legal in Oklahoma, Missouri, Colorado and most other states. Kansas is one of the few states without it.

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Todd 8 years, 1 month ago

You are entitled to your opinion of course. (xenophonschild)

Concealed carry allows people to legally carry weapons after going through a screening. (ie registration) This doesn't encourage weapons. Just like driver's licenses don't encourage automobiles.

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xenophonschild 8 years, 1 month ago

This is wrong. Weapons should be strictly prohibited, not encouraged. Having a weapon predisposes the possessor to use it, instead of depending on alternatives and self-control.

This is Kansas and we are Kansans . . . not Texas.

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