Archive for Tuesday, March 7, 2006

Attempt to repeal immigrant tuition fails

March 7, 2006

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— An attempt to repeal a law giving undocumented students a tuition break failed today.

The House voted 63-58 for an amendment by Rep. Tom Holland, D-Baldwin, which essentially gutted the repeal effort.

Holland then sought a provision to increase penalties against employers who knowingly hire undocumented immigrants. But that was sent back to committee on a 62-59 vote.

House Speaker Doug Mays, R-Topeka, who had wanted to repeal the tuition law, said he believed the votes today signaled the end of debate on the issue this year.

"It's not going to come back out of the committee," Mays said.

But Rep. Becky Hutchins, R-Holton, who led efforts to repeal the law, said the fight wasn't over.

She said she may try to amend her proposal onto another bill. She added the issue would definitely become part of the political debate this year heading to the elections.

"I've got my recorded votes and the postcards will go out," Hutchins said.

The law, approved in 2004, lets some undocumented immigrants qualify for in-state tuition if they attended a Kansas high school for at least three years and graduated or earned a General Educational Development certificate in Kansas.

Last fall, 221 students enrolled under the law, most of them at community colleges, according to the Kansas Board of Regents.

A full-time undergraduate from Kansas pays $2,412 per semester at Kansas University for in-state tuition, compared with $6,638 for out-of-state residents.

Comments

RiverCityConservative 9 years, 5 months ago

I do not believe, as some do, that there is something evil in the hearts of the Kansans who want to take away the resident status of immigrants for college and university tuition purposes. I believe it is counter-productive to suggest that their opinions are based on racist tendencies.

If any good is to come from the renewal of this debate, it is going to depend on the tireless efforts of teachers speaking out--not only to our representatives but especially to our neighbors. And those conversations ought to be conducted with the utmost respect for our fellow Kansans who need solid reasons to change their minds.

I can think of three compelling reasons. First, the Kansas law does not conflict with federal law, as demonstrated by the fact that in October, 2005, the federal district court dismissed a lawsuit that had challenged the Kansas law, K.S.A. 76-731a. Second, the Kansas law only provides resident status for in-state tuition purposes to those immigrant Kansans who have attended and graduated from a Kansas high school, and who are in the process of obtaining documents for U.S. residency. It is wrong to say that the Kansas law benefits illegal immigrants. Just because someone is undocumented does not mean they are "illegal." Immigration and visas have become extremely complicated in the aftermath of 9-11. Delays of several years or more are now the norm. The third reason for supporting current Kansas law and defeating the repeal efforts is that immigrant Kansas parents and families contribute to the tax base just like all Kansas families do. Recognizing the resident status of their children for in-state tuition is only fair.

But there is another reason why I believe it is in the interests of all Kansans to defend the current Kansas law as it stands on this issue. Kansas teachers need this law in order to be able to provide the best instruction to all students. "To the stars through difficulties," says our state motto, inscribed on the Kansas flag. We recognize that motivation and aspirations are central to the process of learning and growing to be fulfilled as individuals and responsible as members of the community. You really are not a Kansan until you embrace this basic truth which transcends all our differences of race, religion, and ethnicity.

I hope that the public debate which our legislators, in their infinite wisdom, have reopened on the issue of immigrant tuition will bring about an even stronger endorsement of the current law as it stands. I believe that there is something eminently Kansan about the immigrant experience in America. The children of today's immigrant Kansans are going to make a very positive difference in the glorious future of the Great State of Kansas.

adky 9 years, 5 months ago

Send all foreigners back where they came from.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

Nothing I could say would satisfy the you xenophobes.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

Of course, these students are not getting high dollar jobs with these fake ss cards. Maybe closer to $7.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

I'd forgot about that part of the law. Thanks for the link, Confrontation.

KsTwister 9 years, 5 months ago

Agree blessed3x.......you might include construction with your list too.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

I bet less than 20% of all Americans could pass the naturalization test. I think everyone should pass it before college.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

I guess at some point, with enough well-educated wetbacks wasting their talents, we might have incentive to address the illogic of all kinds of things.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

Which Kansas immigration laws are they violating, Marion?

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

I'm not sure about elementary and high schools, but I know the health departments and hospitals don't require proof of anything. I can't say that I would want them to refuse service to someone in need, but the cost of uncovered ER visits is killing the hospitals (and raising our prices). It just seems like such an uphill battle, with all the special interests making the decisions.

blessed3x 9 years, 5 months ago

What good does it do to let them get a higher education when the only work they can do since they are here ILLEGALLY is farm worker, slaughter house or landscaping? Nothing says America like an MBA picking potatos out of the field.

compmd 9 years, 5 months ago

Confrontation: I've seen the fake SS cards first hand. I confiscated over 100 fake social security cards that had been presented as identification to obtain drivers licenses over the course of three years. You're right, there are many companies that look the other way or don't look at all. Even the best fakes are clearly fake if the person looking at it has half a brain. As far as the school identification goes, I know on my public high school transcript my SSN was printed at the top with my full legal name and birthdate.

Jay_Z 9 years, 5 months ago

Nice work Marion....I was too lazy to put forth any effort to neatly spell out what REALLY happened in the Southwest US to Bozo. Bozo, what crap are you gonna throw out now? Will it stick?

Jay_Z 9 years, 5 months ago

Wow, we STOLE the southwest United States?!

So I guess the illegals are currently trying to steal the whole U.S. right out from under us.....if our government keeps it up the illegals will be successful.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

Blessed3x--If you and your buddy KsTwister had been "blessed" with even partial wisdom, then you would have read more about the legislation. Those who are given the in-state tuition must be in the process of becoming legal citizens. Don't you think this would have been considered before allowing them entrance into a Kansas college, with or without a tuition reduction? No, I'm sure you considered your insight to be truly new and astonishing. Good job KsTwister. Way to jump on that bandwagon.

Jay_Z 9 years, 5 months ago

True that KsTwister....I get so tired of hearing people say illegals do the jobs Americans won't do. To that I call bull****. Heavily fine businesses that hire illegals, and seal up our damn borders. Stop the madness.

KsTwister 9 years, 5 months ago

I didn't just jump---I have been trying to get changes to your President's worker amnesty bill dumped for 18 months now. Have the letters from the president,senators,governor,and representatives. March 27 is the deadline......want to help? Five years in the USA and the citizen test (which would be much of their high school history and government) would enable them to be legal American citizens. Attendance in the state for the in state tuition and that requirement for all students should be fair for all illegal or not. Enough said.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

Yea, kstwister, I wholeheartedly agree we should quit keeping the keys to the country in those packinghouses out in western Kansas. Some of those immigrants from Mexico, from whom we stole the entire southwest united states, might accidentally find them.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

What you found out from the admissions office is precisely what had been already stated in this thread. Live here a year, get residency.

If you enroll here before that time, your year never starts. I think that's a screwy deal, but that's the way it is.

adky 9 years, 5 months ago

We should be kicking out all foreigners whether they're legal or illegal. No more terrorism, less crime, less handouts. There are too many foreign accents in this town and this country.

bettie 9 years, 5 months ago

I can think of one "native born LEGAL American citizen" who could go right now...

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

Yes, there isn't much other way to describe it than theft-- strong-armed robbery more accurately.

Here's a pretty good overview of that period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_American_War

That said, the current borders are long set, and not likely to change. But knowing a bit of history does make the talk here about the sacrosanctity of US territory sound pretty silly.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

I'm not about to defend the Spanish aristocrats who used to govern Mexico, inclucing Santa Ana. But the opportunists who siezed Texas, and then provided the pretext for the war of conquest that Polk undertook in order to seize the northern territories of Mexico (now SW US) were primarily southern slaveholders looking for new territory for slave plantations.

I'm not surpised they are part of your hero lore.

KsTwister 9 years, 5 months ago

To Confrontation: The ones "CHEATED" are the REAL AMERICAN Children. Go figure. No necessarily the ones who are doing more than just speaking out against the 11 million illegals in this country who benefit from OUR tax dollars,but some of us are working ourselves trying to change the idiot thinking of giving the keys to the country to those who should be second in line---not first.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

compmd: I wonder what the local schools require in terms of student identification. That'd be interesting to find out. I've heard of several legal immigrants in Lawrence (mainly students) who received fake social security cards so they could work higher paying jobs. They already had ss cards, but they said something like "not eligible for work." So, some hispanic man from the area will make ss cards with the same number and remove the work limitation. For those who don't know, immigrants admitted into the US on a student visa can usually only work campus (crap) jobs. For many of these students with rich foreign parents, they can make it. The others either get paid in cash or get a fake ss card, since they can't easily pay tuition with a $5.50 per hour campus job. I definitely think it's wrong, but you'd be surprised how often this happens and which companies are hiring them without double checking their status.

KsTwister 9 years, 5 months ago

Well, this much is for sure----if corporate America would quit hiring illegals for $5 or $6 an hour then maybe the Americans would TAKE the job for $8 or $9. Do I hear any disagreement???? I think the second time a business is found hiring illegals (knowingly proven)they should be closed- harsh but how else to help this country back to the industrial capital it used to be?

SupplySide 9 years, 5 months ago

Incredible,don't you love the gutless LJ in it's own World and their reference to "undocumented workers."What liers you all are.I will hold these rats in the NY Times and all their empty headed breatheren for their constant twisting and perverting of the truth! How are you gonna spin it when a whole city is wiped out?You'll know doubt find some way to show that it's only the fault of conservative Christians why they snuck in through Mexico and and leveled one of our cities.If only we would be more "tollerant" of the diversity of other cultures need to kill Americans. The facts are that these humble "undocumented workers"cost this country more than we receive.In other words it's a big net loss. We are at war isn't it a good idea to have a better handle on our borders?Is that racist, left wing loons?To know who is entering this country and why they are comming here.There is a chance that not all are the humble peasants that LJ tries to pawn off on the fools that read this proletariat rag!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

Don't look now, but the same pressures that drive these companies to hire "illegals" to work here for half what Americans will work for also drive jobs abroad, where they pay a few cents an hour, under slave labor conditions.

Don't think that stopping undocumented immigration will all of a sudden create some great renaissance in the hiring of "natives."

The problem of immigration being discussed here is only the tiniest tip of the iceberg that is commonly called "globalization." Most of the world is pretty miserable, and the wealthiest 1% who really run things are just doing their level best to see that the rest of us understand that misery loves company.

And Dubya is their Cheerleader-in-Chief.

Jay_Z 9 years, 5 months ago

I agree with Shardwurm. An illegal immigrant is still here ILLEGALLY no matter how you spin it.

I'm all for legal immigration. I'm not against illegal immigration because I've been "cheated" by illegal immigrants. I went to KU, got a masters degree, got a good job, and am doing well. I just hate to see illegal activity REWARDED by our government (whether it is at the state or federal level)--just plain insanity in my opinion!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

"AUTOMATICALLY GIVEN IN STATE TUITION JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE HERE!?"

No, they are only given in-state tuition if they have recieved a high school diploma or a ged in the state of Kansas.

I'd be happy if they relaxed the rule for Kansas residency, but despite your breathless attempt, it doesn't change what I posted about non-Kansas, US citizens obtaining in-state tuition. They just have to live here for a year.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

Marion-I hope you didn't think I was referring to you. I do not necessarily agree with in-state tuition for illegal immigrants. I am referring to idiots like adky who think every immigrant needs to go back home, legal or not. I definitely believe that immigrants should be here legally, and all others should be sent home where they can try the legal route. I don't know who would cut the crops, but there are laws that should be followed.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

Also, I really hope ReachAround is just being sarcastic with his/her horribly written sentence.

"Dey took are jobs!!!" Really, he/she must know the true translation of this sentence is: "They took our jobs." If you thought your original sentence was correct, then I could see why someone took your job.

adky 9 years, 5 months ago

Todd - giving in-state tuition to people is designed to keep labor costs low. Why outsource to India when you can bring their cheap labor here? The cheap manual labor market is saturated, so now they can start on the skilled labor. Perhaps that may include your job!

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

There are very few Americans, other than teenagers or farm families, who would work throwing hay bales. There are always a lot of jobs in the food industry and in factories around Lawrence, yet there are still tons of people in town who claim there are no jobs and blame the immigrants. I never implied that people with degrees would want these types of jobs. Very few people with degrees have ever had to work a real difficult job, and therefore, they don't appreciate the value of a dollar. I have a degree, but I have worked these "lesser" jobs and praise anyone who does them, illegal or not. I think people should be here legally, but there are not enough hard working Americans to fill in for them at their places of employment. Costs of food will go up if the farmers must pay more money. It's not a win-win situation like some people seem to believe. I think you know that.

Todd 9 years, 5 months ago

Giving in-state tuition to people (ie anyone the state feels like giving it to) is designed to retain talent that will make Kansas better. Immigrants will make Kansas better so that's why their kids are getting in-state tuition.

KsTwister 9 years, 5 months ago

Your comment:"I think most people against immigration are those who feel that they have been cheated. " I have not been cheated yet I try to make sure that tomorrows children will not be either. And your "cost increases" touted by those working to give illegals amnesty(i.e. citizenship,health benefits,social security) becomes the same idealism that makes sweatshops in other countries turning out products which you still pay as much for if they were made here. I applaud hard working Americans-you would too if you threw hay bales for for 10cents a bale from dawn to dusk. This is just one of many hard jobs and most people would rather work to meet their families needs.But they won't"b***ch"as much as long as they can afford a place to live and food on the table. This is harder to accomplish when companies hire the "cheaper labor" than to meet a true living wage for the blue collar worker. These are not jobs that someone with a degree would work anyway. I think you know that.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

KSTwister: "To Confrontation: The ones "CHEATED" are the REAL AMERICAN Children."

I don't know where you got the idea that I agree with the in-state tuition for illegals. Also, putting certain words in capital letters just make you look insane.

"if corporate America would quit hiring illegals for $5 or $6 an hour then maybe the Americans would TAKE the job for $8 or $9. "

Maybe you should capitalize "maybe." How many lazy Americans would take farm jobs or other hard labor jobs for $8 or $9 per hour? Most Americans have no work ethic. Don't act like those working corporate jobs with a degree truly know the value of a hard-earned dollar. As soon as the illegals are shipped back home, all these "hard-working" Americans will bitch about the cost increases in nearly every product across the U.S.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

Few if any of the illegal immigrants under discussion here would qualify for legal immigration as it is currently structured. Their parents are low-paid laborers, and for them to get admitted would literally be a matter of winning the lottery.

Maybe they are being "rewarded," but they are being rewarded primarily for working-- their parents work at their jobs and pay taxes to the state and the feds; the kids work hard to graduate from high school, and then have to work to pay the still relatively high cost of in-state tuition (they won't get grants or loans) while they work at their studies.

It's not a fair world, but that doesn't mean we ought to be unfair to these kids just because it makes you feel better.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

Sounds like adky is a little bit jealous. Perhaps he/she has been overlooked for jobs because an immigrant had a superior intellect. All the immigrants I know are not terrorists, commit no crimes, and do not receive handouts. Your family has used more services than theirs. Your family also came from immigrants, so you are trying to deport yourself and your relatives. Good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on your way out. Well, actually I wouldn't care if it did. It's sad to see people like you exist in this world.

Shardwurm 9 years, 5 months ago

'All they have to do is come here and live for a year.'

So what do they do for that first year? Pay out of state tuition I'd bet. What if they don't want to change residency?

So bozo, why should we give in-state tuition fees to graduates of Kansas schools? They're still here illegally.

Why should a student legally here from Mexico, for example, pay out-of-state tuition when their illegal alien cousin is here getting a break?

This is just plain stupid. But with this and the breast-feeding law it would appear the Governor has sown up a lot of votes.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

I think most people against immigration are those who feel that they have been cheated. These are often on-again-off-again unemployed people who feel the immigrants are stealing their jobs. In reality, most lazy Americans feel that they are too good to take the jobs the immigrants have (janitorial, farming, construction, McDonald's). Lazy Americans will stay as long as possible on unemployment, whereas most immigrants will pick up an extra job to make ends meet. We should also be thankful to have some highly intelligent immigrants helping better our country in the fields of medicine, engineering, etc.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

"As far as I'm concerned, the LEGAL population of the State of Kansas is now DISENFRANCHISED from and no longer rquired to obey the laws of that state."

Immigration laws are not state laws. The law allowing in-state tuition for the children of undocumented immigrants has nothing to do with any violations of state law.

Todd 9 years, 5 months ago

To get in state tuition all you have to do is come to Kansas and live/work for 1 year. Every citizen can do that.

If there were knee-jerk reaction awards this response forum would be littered with them.

KsTwister 9 years, 5 months ago

Go on, just give all the children born and raised here legally a country where they are the poor and get no handouts. You are doing a fine job!!! Give the land away too,with the education,health and jobs.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

Yes, they are showing a preference for undocumented workers whose children have graduated from a Kansas high school. The children of undocumented workers who graduated from a Missouri high school would not get such a break.

If a US citizen who is currently residing in another state wishes to get in-state tuition, as noted above, all they have to do is move here for a year. No undocumented immigrant who hasn't graduated from a Kansas high school has any opportunity to get in-state tuition.

As usual, if your post has any factual basis, it's distorted beyond recognition.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 5 months ago

As usual, your superficial and bigoted understanding of the issue betrays you, Marion.

There is a very small group of undocumented immigrants who can get in-state tuition-- it is limited to those who have graduated from a Kansas high school, which means that their parents have lived and worked here, and paid taxes, and likely made at least as much contribution to the Kansas economy as you have.

Only a citizen (or possibly someone with US residency) can move here just to get reduced tuition. The current measure will not attract any undocumented immigrants here soley for the purpose of getting a reduced rate on tuition and fees.

compmd 9 years, 5 months ago

Marion, I'm with you completely on the topic of illegal immigrants getting in-state tuition. I fought hard for in-state tuition when I started going to school here because I was pretty much on my own. But KU said that because I had out-of-state income and I could not show that I intended to make Kansas my permanent home, I was denied. The University didn't care that the income was from internships, and they didn't care that I didn't have the means to go anywhere else. I think that you and I both see the problem that many are choosing to ignore: illegal immigrants are illegal. What do we do in this town when someone has been branded as having done something illegal, like rob someone? In Kansas we'd string them up outside the county courthouse if we could. Somehow the majority of people around here don't care if a LOT of people (Kansas taxpayers) get robbed by admitted criminals (illegal immigrants). For some reason that is ok. Remember, in order to get the in-state tuition, an illegal immigrant has to have graduated from a Kansas high school and have attended it at least three years. You tell me how you live for three years without having to write your SSN on something. As I've stated before, in order to qualify, I don't see how some fraud could not have taken place in order to establish some sort of rented or owned domicile. By allowing illegal immigrants not only permission to stay but incentives, we are welcoming and perpetuating the fraud against Americans and legal immigrants alike.

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