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Archive for Monday, June 26, 2006

Nuisance house procedures drive code enforcement home

City beginning to identify residents for possible prosecution

June 26, 2006

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Adam Stuart is a fairly soft-spoken guy, but he's just a few steps from being labeled a neighborhood nuisance.

On a recent afternoon at home, the 21-year-old biology student leaned back in his recliner, a beer keg sitting on the floor nearby. On a wall behind him were posters of Jimi Hendrix and John Lennon.

Stuart was clutching a piece of paperwork and trying to figure out what's going to happen to him now that the duplex he rents on Birch Lane in central Lawrence has been flagged as a potential "disorderly house" under city code.

He said he'd wound up in the situation by throwing parties that have gone bad. At one, a friend from Nebraska came to celebrate his 21st birthday, got drunk and ended up hitting a woman and licking the hood of a car.

After being called to the duplex three times in three weeks, Lawrence Police told him last week that they'd send a letter to his landlord - his aunt - seeking to have him and his roommates evicted. But since then, Stuart hasn't been able to get a good idea of what's actually going to happen.

Roommates Josh Davis, left, and Adam Stuart, center, hang out with Stuart's brother Ian outside Josh and Adam's house. Adam is faced with the threat of being prosecuted for having a "disorderly house" as defined in a city ordinance.

Roommates Josh Davis, left, and Adam Stuart, center, hang out with Stuart's brother Ian outside Josh and Adam's house. Adam is faced with the threat of being prosecuted for having a "disorderly house" as defined in a city ordinance.

"It's really open-ended," he said. "They can't tell me anything about how I'm going to be prosecuted."

A little confusion is perhaps understandable when it comes to the disorderly house ordinance. For well over a year now, the city has been trying to iron out problems that made enforcement of the ordinance too cumbersome.

But now, city leaders say they've improved their system and people like Stuart will be less likely to slip through the cracks.

Flagging problem homes

In theory, any home where there have been two or more crimes in the past year can be labeled a "disorderly house," and the occupant and owner can be required by the city to fix the problem. As a last resort, the city can shut off the utilities and condemn the property.

Even though the law has been on the books for more than five years, city leaders earlier this year acknowledged no one had ever been prosecuted under it. In recent months, however, the city has made some minor changes to the law and, more important, to its process for tracking which homes are problem spots.

"Before we started taking a good, long, hard look at our system, we weren't putting two and two together to get four," said Scott Miller, a city attorney who advises the police department.

In the past, police would make notes in their computer-aided dispatch system to track where they had given prior warnings for noise violations. But Miller said the department wasn't accessing a municipal-court database that shows with a few mouse clicks where citations have been issued and prosecuted.

"I don't think departments were aware of the tools other departments had," he said.

Since April, the court has been sending a monthly report of citations to both Miller and to an LPD sergeant for review.

It lists, by address, all the places where common nuisance crimes have occurred in the past month - possession of marijuana, minor in possession of alcohol, public consumption of alcohol, battery, urinating in public, furnishing alcohol to a minor, disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace.

A recent report listed about 720 cases.

"When you see five or something (at one address), that just alerts you there might be a problem. Then you have to take a closer look at that address" and delve into the underlying facts, Miller said.

Party counseling

Once a home is identified as a problem, the next step is a "nuisance abatement conference," in which the owner or occupant sits down with the city's legal staff to figure out a written plan that can include any of the following:

¢ Eviction.

¢ Written notification to certain people that they're banned from the property.

¢ Improvements such as fences, security devices or increased lighting.

Miller said his office has begun a process of scheduling five or six conferences for later this summer.

"We've gotten several houses identified as potential violators that could be prosecuted," Miller said. He declined to identify them, however, because they are not technically charged yet under the ordinance.

If someone fails to show for the conference or the agreement falls through, the case can then be sent to city prosecutor Jerry Little for prosecution. But Miller said the ultimate goal is to solve the problem, not prosecute someone.

"Our hope is that they will modify their behavior," he said.

'No parties'

Stuart's case is not one of those with a pending nuisance conference, but he could be coming to the table soon.

The June 3 incident involving his drunken friend, which led to an anonymous noise complaint to police, caused him to be charged with disturbing the peace.

That was one strike against him.

His second strike may have come on June 18. Police were called to the home about 3 a.m. to respond to a fight in progress. Stuart said a group of people had come to the apartment after being at a bar, and that some people who don't live there began scuffling outside.

Stuart wasn't cited at the scene, but police told him they'd send a report to prosecutors for possible charges. So far, he hasn't heard anything.

Stuart said the conference with the city is "a great idea," and he acknowledges he probably deserved tickets in both the June incidents. One thing that bothers him about the procedure, though, is that callers who report noise complaints can remain anonymous.

"They could call about the smallest thing - just because they don't like us," he said.

It used to be that in order for police to take a noise complaint, a neighbor had to be willing to be a complaining witness. But in January 2005, police did away with that requirement and also cut down on the paperwork officers were required to write at the scene of noise complaints.

Lawrence Police Sgt. Dan Ward said the changes have helped the overall picture more than police expected: In the first five months of 2006, noise complaints were down 8 percent compared with the first five months of 2005.

For now, Stuart and his roommates have instituted new house rules: No more than one guest per person at the home at any time.

"There will be no parties here any more," he said.

Comments

hockmano 7 years, 9 months ago

Basically, if you respect your neighbor, hopefully they will respect you!

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

kmart: Don't hate me because I work smart and not hard.

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 9 months ago

The enforcement of this ordinance is about far more than partying college students.

It will be used in conjunction with other parts of the City Code to target "undesirable" properties; that is, properties which do not fit well into the "vision" of the "Progressives".

If your house is not mainstream, your politics acceptable or your lifestyle even the tinitest bit out of the norm. you may become a target under this law.

Thanks.

Marion.

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adavid 7 years, 9 months ago

i call the cops on my own parties just because i like to know who it is calling the cops. anonymity is for cowards.

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Jamesaust 7 years, 9 months ago

"...so no, college students (and other lower income groups) don't really have any kind of property rights in Lawrence."

If you don't own the property then you can't very well have property rights, now can you?

Or, to paraphrase Oliver Wendell Holmes:

Your right to make your noise ends where the other man's eardrum begins.

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observer 7 years, 9 months ago

Problem is these idiots with loud parties have no concept of fairness. Seems that since they are at college, anything they do is ok. All college students for at least first 2 years should be required to live in dorm. After that since most of the ignorant a$$holes have either dropped out, failed or joined a frat or sorority, problems go away. Personally, I hate the student gettos that are formed when rentals are allowed for more than 2 un-related adults to live together. That is the problem, ignorant obnoxious, self rightous posters like logicsound04, sooner the a$$hole flunks out and leaves the better.

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robinrander 7 years, 9 months ago

Some of you "real" Lawrence residents need "Don't hassle me, I'm local. And an a$$hole." shirts. Get over it. You don't own the town. If I want to live there for 8 months, 8 years, or 80 years, I have every right.

And those of you with knotted panties because this ordinance is too "subjective," well, get over it. 99% of the law is subjective. If a police car was in the neighborhood, they could tell you to shut it without a call from a neighbor. So what's the big deal about having a named neighbor call?

And for those of you having loud parties, shut up.

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BuiltToSpill 7 years, 9 months ago

This whole "disorderly house" issue is just being looked at more for the city to make petty change off of college students!

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moveforward 7 years, 9 months ago

macon47...

do you need a wider monitor or are you typing on a palm. I could loan you some punctuation marks ;-)

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macon47 7 years, 9 months ago

yes, they are good kiddies the paper is bad, bad this was all made up these guys sing at church and help little old ladies cross the street right!

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popobawa 7 years, 9 months ago

Some of you may have been mislead by the final edit of Adam's interview and its inclusion of the posters on his wall. The fellas living in his house aren't just a bunch of rich college kids looking for a good time. Adam and another roommate go to school and work full time. The other roommate also works full time. Like serious day jobs scrapping to get by in Lawrence. You people on these comment boards seem to have forgotten the saying "judge not lest ye be judged." Nothing to do with religion but a simple idea to live by. You're all so quick here to judge when perhaps the whole story doesn't make it in the paper cause it's really not that interesting. Would you believe writers don't spin the story to sell it? Which one of you would by a paper if it didn't have all the violence and gossip you thirve on?

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kmat 7 years, 9 months ago

Panties aren't in a bunch (cuz i don't wear panties), but you have shown that you have no clue about Lawrence today. Still waiting for you to show some idea of logical thinking though.

Enjoy getting drunk and telling the cops you're just doing drunk things.

Oh, and nice how you waste your time at work online. At least I'm off today while doing this.

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penguin 7 years, 9 months ago

actually I was thinking around 12th and Louisiana and the blocks around it.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

Me too. It's been fun. Kmat - Try not to get your panties in too much of cinch. After all, they are just kids.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

well androids, its been interesting, but seeing as how I get off work in 20 min. I will leave you to your own devices.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

I was discussing "logic" with kmart and I thought regina was having a hard time figuring out what it means.

Sorry for the confusion ;)

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

ah I missed that post, thanks for the clarification.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

...and FYI, my comment about Bush was in reference to macon47's comment blaming Bush for this entire issue

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Kathy Gragg 7 years, 9 months ago

Posted by powershopper (anonymous) on June 26, 2006 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Enforcer - You have proved to us all that Lawrence is, in fact, still a colorful place to live.


I have to admit I have come across some very intresting folks around here I enjoy observing them it is ammusing.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

I can't tell if people are referencing my screename or the concept of "logic"...please help

and what was the purpose of the Webster's link?

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Why is it I need to go to that web site? Logic said something that didn't even have to do with this discussion. I assume he meant that post for another discussion.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

Kmat: Logic dictates that Lawrence is a college town. College kids drink, get drunk and do stupid things. This isn't going to change, regardless of ordinances.

Logic also dictates that you are a whiner. The evidence is irrefutable.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

I'm as big a Dubya hater as there is, but why the hell does he keep getting into this thread? I know he is responsible for lots of bad/unjust/wrong things, but it's almost satisfying that we are all here debating and arguing and issue that, for once, Georgie and his good old boys don't have ANYTHING to do with (at least I hope so; otherwise we have a lot more to fear than I ever could have imagined....)

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kmat 7 years, 9 months ago

Drunk college students do drunk things. Deal with it or move.

They can move!!!! I paid for my house. Most likely, mommy and daddy are paying the rent for these kids. Hey, whoever is paying the rent needs to be charged, not who's living there. When these brats parents get in trouble, then maybe they'll change their kids ways.

If an adult that isn't a college student gets drunk and does "drunk things", are we supposed to sit back and say "oh it's ok, he's drunk"? What a load of cr#p. Why don't you head to Westport tonight, get drunk, puke on some cars, make a huge public scene, hell go ahead an endanger some people, then tell the nice KC MO cops that you're just drunk doing drunk things.

If you were a KU student at one time, I think you partied through your logic class.

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macon47 7 years, 9 months ago

FACE THE FACTS this is all bush and cheneys fault the war in iraq has the poor children so upset the know not what they do let us all meet at south park hold hands and pray for their poor lost souls. (while they are home drinking beer and rasing heck). most of the time the kids that are jerks like these guys have parents that are also jerks, they are just spoiled punks that have no regard for others. they will become lawyers and later millionaires.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

regi I know but there will always be some one not happy. If a person sho needs to sleep during the day can figure out how to then I think night time sleepers can too. As long as the whole out of control thing is not going on. But that to is up to interpertation

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

Actually, it had been shaped into a Jayhawk. Craziest thing I have ever seen.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

That's one thing no one has mentioned--college students write "college poo" in their feces after they finish. It's awfully nice of them to label it--and I mean AWFUL.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

I disagree, Logic. When you gotta go, you gotta go. Most homeless people stick to the alleys. This had college poo written all over it.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

Power, I have a feeling that most of those things (especially the poo) are the product of the homeless shelter just East of Mass--most college students don't take craps on the street

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

Enforcer - You have proved to us all that Lawrence is, in fact, still a colorful place to live.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

I have some family who own a business on Mass. Street. Occasionally, on Saturday mornings ,they arrive to work to find a puddle of vomit, and even once, a pile of sh*t at their front door. My brother once came home to find one of his roommates friends pissing on his brand new Sealy mattress. Drunk college students do drunk things. Deal with it or move. These ordinances are only going to control the situation so much. Unless, of course, you think the city should ban the Univeristy of Kansas as well.

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Kathy Gragg 7 years, 9 months ago

I only have one house with students in mt neighborhood, but I have to say they are the best on the block. The king od the warlocks and his two wivs become quite entertaining in the moonlight at times though and there is alway excitement at the strippers house across the street. The woman next door holds AA meeting and the participants are quite loud and linger in the street and of course I have the lord of the great flames who has bon fire parties every weekend.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

But power that is the issue. No respect for other people. Why is that? I'm sure if I wanted to walk on their car they wouldn't have a problem with that, I mean hey, I'm drunk, whats the big deal? I'm assuming that it would be a big deal to them, thats THEIR stuff.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

momma, thats the point I was making. I don't call anybody about it. But that is the reasoning for having the 24 hour a day noise ordinance. I don't expect ANYONE to change their lifes or schedules for my benefit. I'm just saying, everyone has their issues whether it be night or day. But it should not prohibit somebody from complaining in the middle of the day for any noise that is bothering them. But there are those who abuse the ordiance by complaining about every little peep. But I guess they have that right. It's ultimatly (sp?) up to the officers called to the complaint to decide if it is indeed breaking the law.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

I agree with Momma. It seems like there are quite a few old buzzards on this stream who need to lighten up a bit. Is the occasional drunk college student trampling through your carrot patch really that big of a deal?

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Bditty: I thought kids were no longer kids when they reached the age of 18, legally they are adults. So since they are younger adults than others that gives them the right to be a pain in the a$$? So basically you would have no problem if one of these "kids" peed in your house or threwup on your cars? Good to know.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

Boy, Logic, You go right for the Jugular

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

Let's talk about WMD's in Iraq,

THAT would be rather hard to do, considering it is a mythological subject. We may as well talk about how the price of Unicorn meat is rising on the commodities exchange.

In case you hadn't noticed, Satchel, this is a blog about the article at the top of the page. Last time I looked I didn't see any of the things mentioned in your post in the article.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

well I have had jobs where day sleep are neccasary and they have this new invention to help out it is called ear plugs. My dad has always had jobs where he works all shifts and he some how managed to sleep thru just about anything even daylight. there are ways around the day sleep issue and if you think just because you have a night job your neighbor should suspend their life until those hours you are awake well that is a bit un real. If you have a problem with a neighbor having out of control party the call but if they are just having a party and it is not out of control then let them be it is that easy.

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MaryKatesPillStash 7 years, 9 months ago

BDitty, you are right on.

I wonder if I could make consistent noise complaints about my neighbor's kids who run round the yard and scream all day, while I am trying to sleep? Oh wait, that's my fault for having a night job to get myself through school. I'm just a guest here, after all.

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satchel 7 years, 9 months ago

Let's talk about WMD's in Iraq, or Ann Coulter's book 'Godless'.. Anything that causes controversy in Lawrence.. Anything, but this boring stuff about these drunk college kids..:-)

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Agnostick 7 years, 9 months ago

BDitty writes:

"Tell you what, let's divide the town in two. College kids and normal people east of Iowa St. and all you old farts who go to bed at 7:30 west of Iowa St."


Dude!! And I thought I watched way too much TV...

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com

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kmat 7 years, 9 months ago

Just for the record, the new ordinance makes it so there are NO records of who called the complaint. The old ordinance only took a name for a police report, and it is not like the cops went next door and said "so-and-so complained about you" If a person wants to know who complained, they have to go look at the official police report at the courthouse, so don't give me that BS about protection.

Correction - the only 2 times I have called the police (for the old neighbors I used to have), they did disclose which neighbor called them. They didn't have to go get the police records.

We are not saying that all college students are lawbreakers. People on this post keep saying this is a college town so noisy parties are to be expected. That's a load of poo and it's being pointed out.

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satchel 7 years, 9 months ago

Old enuf, what makes you assume I am a christian? did I mention I was? Do all non-christians buy into evolution?

Nevertheless, you do have a point about phelps. He is a total loser, and even though he doesn't buy into evolution it has effected his thinking whether he will admit it or not. He says he believes people are made in the image of God. If he really believed that he wouldn't be picketing funerals and wouldn't be so hateful toward gay people.

You can disagree with someones' lifestyle and not be hateful toward them, and you can disagree with the war and not be hateful as well. Phelps reminds me of those wackos in Lawrence who go to the recruitment centers and protest with ketchup all over them, banging on the doors and chanting out that the military are murderers.

You kind of have to get off the subject of this stupid incident with these college kids. What a better discussion.. Evolution and Christianity, and Phelps.. Whoopie!!!

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

The old ordinance requried filing a police report--deterring those who might use the police to settle a personal grudge.

The new ordinance only requires an anonymous phone call and the police do the rest.

All I ask is that you return to accountability. I'm fine with the current system with one small change: simply require callers to file a report if in fact charges are filed (by the police, of course)

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Logic: how do you figure that?? Last time all a citizen had to do was sign a noise complaint to press charges and get the person to be fined. Now it is up to the officers and like kmat said they have to hear it from certain number of feet away. Before anybody could just sign you up! I don't see how that was difficult.

Not to start another argument, but I also have a problem with rolling noises. Why must I listen to somebody elses crap music by driving near them? And I don't mean that by driving next to them. I mean I am a block away and here them coming and can't even hear my radio, why is that necessary?

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

I am done arguing this point, as it is point-less. You all can go sip you lattes and listen to your folk music and talk about what an enlightened community Lawrence is in the middle of red-state Kansas. But when real issues of civil rights arise, blow it off because the group in question is not your favorite collection of people due to the inconvenience they cause you. OH, I better watch out or you might file a noise complaint about me on this board.

And just to add a measure of finality--renters rights in Lawrence are a joke, so no, college students (and other lower income groups) don't really have any kind of property rights in Lawrence. Have fun watching Lawrence turn into Johnson County...

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BDitty 7 years, 9 months ago

Tell you what, let's divide the town in two. College kids and normal people east of Iowa St. and all you old farts who go to bed at 7:30 west of Iowa St. This is the bed you have made. You developed this city to draw college kids into town and make a quick buck off of them and now you wanna put the cuffs on them and throw 'em out cause they are peeing on your new grass. Too bad! Give them a break, they are KIDS!!!

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

"This is done to protect people. When you have a house full of drunk people (remember the key thing here - these people are impaired), who knows how they might act or what they might do once the police leave, knowing who called them out? Ever heard of a bar fight? People get drunk and lose control. The police and the law are just trying to protect people"

Just for the record, the new ordinance makes it so there are NO records of who called the complaint. The old ordinance only took a name for a police report, and it is not like the cops went next door and said "so-and-so complained about you" If a person wants to know who complained, they have to go look at the official police report at the courthouse, so don't give me that BS about protection.

"Say you were a student trying to study for your last exam, and if you don't pass it you don't graduate. Your neighbors decide to have one heck of a party and it's so loud you can't even study. You can then call the police about the loud party."

None of you are reading my arguments. If that situation occurred, one would think I would have no problem filing a police report, correct? Well under the old ordinance, if I did that, the problem would be addressed. The new ordinance requires no police report, so in the same situation you just described, I could use the ordinance to inconvenience the college students next door that I just don't like.

It doesn't really matter what I write at this point anyway. It is fairly obvious that you have lumped me into the lawbreaking college student group anyway. Hell, someone even compared the Lawrence population to the student population and then pointed out that there are more law-abiding citizens simply because there are more residents. I did not miss the implication that all college students are lawbreakers who disregard everyone else, and it is that very attitude that makes me worry about the new noise ordinance.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

"The police have to HEAR it and decide if it really is "too noisy"."

It is still subjective and more easily abused than the previous ordinance.

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kmat 7 years, 9 months ago

Charges aren't being pressed anonymously. The police press the charges. If a noise complaint is called in, the police come out to see if they really are disturbing the peace. The neighbors don't press charges. It is up to the police to decide. I know from speaking to a neighbor in the past that's an officer that the noise has to be heard from a certain distance away to be considered too loud. I can't remember the distance, but the police use that to judge if a party is too loud. If you can just hear it next door, not a big deal. When you hear the noise a block away, that's when they'll get you.

This is done to protect people. When you have a house full of drunk people (remember the key thing here - these people are impaired), who knows how they might act or what they might do once the police leave, knowing who called them out? Ever heard of a bar fight? People get drunk and lose control. The police and the law are just trying to protect people.

Regarding the "we have laws to protect people except college students". What a load! Say you were a student trying to study for your last exam, and if you don't pass it you don't graduate. Your neighbors decide to have one heck of a party and it's so loud you can't even study. You can then call the police about the loud party. Of course, you would probably say that student has no right to expect to have any peace and be able to study, that's what the library is for. These poor college students have no rights. Blah blah blah.

What ever happened to living in the dorms? Living in a party complex if you want to have parties all the time? That's what Colony Woods and Oliver Hall are for.

I wonder how many parents who are paying the rent at the houses these parties are at know their kids are doing this, and what they would think of their kids constantly disturbing the peace?

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

the point being that if your neighbor "perceives" that you should get in trouble for your actions, it will happen. The ordinance does not regulate whether college students are respecting their neighbors, but rather whether or not their neighbors percieve that they are being respected.

I understand that the ordinance does not specifically regulate how people percieve things, I just worded it that way for effect, figuring that most people could pick up the underlying meaning.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Logic: You obviously didn't read my earlier posts that stated the officer has to HEAR the noise for himself to make the noise judgement call. The police are not going to just go by the "word" of a caller. That would just open up a whole new box of worms. The police have to HEAR it and decide if it really is "too noisy".

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tony88 7 years, 9 months ago

"The problem with the ordinance is that is does not directly regulate respect, it regulates perception"???

is there any logic in this. it reads exaclty like a deliberately illogical post-modern philosophical statement. this ordinance regulates perception? explain that.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

"this s**t coming from a poster named "LOGICsound04" ha. good one"

tony88, what is your point?

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tony88 7 years, 9 months ago

"The problem with the ordinance is that is does not directly regulate respect, it regulates perception, so no matter how simply you try to explain you point, it will not counter mine, because you are arguing a separate issue."

this s**t coming from a poster named "LOGICsound04"

ha. good one

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

This is not a RESPECT issue. I agree that college students have as much responsibility to respect Lawrence residents as anyone else. But, I have always treated Lawrence citizens with respect and yet I was still subject to this discriminatory law.

The problem with the ordinance is that is does not directly regulate respect, it regulates perception, so no matter how simply you try to explain you point, it will not counter mine, because you are arguing a separate issue.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

We have laws to protect your homes, property, etc. UNLESS YOU ARE A GODDAMN COLLEGE STUDENT. It is a two-way street, and being allowed to press charges anonymously is such a catastrophic breakdown of how our legal system is supposed to work. You can't allow ANYONE to make false accusation and not be held accountable. The new noise ordinance is specifically targeted at students in general--NOT the fairly small percentage of law-breaking ones that you all seem to think include ALL college students. What exactly is anyone's problem with being required to give a name when complaining to the cops

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

regina -It is time for you to pack your bags and move to Eudora!! You have just successfully cut off your nose to spite your face.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

For the record--I am from Lawrence. I'm not saying students can do what they please, but I don't think driving and being allowed to have parties (under control, of course) fall under the category of "do what they please"

My problem is not that students are prohibited from having rowdy parties and being rude to their neighbors--it is that the ordinance is set up so that they are not the only ones being punished. When I was an undergrad, (multiple years ago) I was the victim of that kind of crap. The entire three year period we lived in the house we had ONE real party, and though it was a large party, it was all close friends and family and we stayed off our neighbors' properties. HOWEVER, we certainly got more than ONE noise complaint while we were there; we were just lucky enough for the new ordinance not to be in effect yet. If that neighbor had been able to complain without filing reports, I very well could have been the focus of this very article.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Logic: I definity know that I was not the first one here. I was stating that this is my perminate home. I don't have a problem with the college or the students. I have a problem for lack of respect for other people. And somebody said it earlier, the students of today have a totally different attitude towards other people. They act like they deserve special treatment, why? Why are their homes, property, etc more important than mine? Because they go to school? I don't know how to explain it any simpler. RESPECT! Be a human being.

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kmat 7 years, 9 months ago

Thank you regina! I am so sick of the "this is a college town" bs and that we should expect the partying and accept it. Lawrence has around 90-100,000 residents when the students are here. Considering that there are about 25,000 students, there are a lot more law abiding citizens of the city. The students are the minority.

Power - I had friends who got arrested. Lets see - public drunkenness, tripping so hard they wouldn't leave peoples homes, fights breaking out (my neighbor had KU football players that were all coked up come in her home during a party, tear the place up and then started fighting). I have seen many people get arrested. Maybe you just partied a little too much and can't remember it all. From your attitude, I'm glad I didn't meet you.

Regarding the puking and cat incident - everyone in the neighborhood had tried to talk to these spoiled JOCO punks. They didn't give a rats ass and told us all so. We tried to be nice over and over, but when there are 2-3 parties a week, going all hours of the night (we're talking people passed out on the lawn, peeing and puking all over the place, etc...) there is nothing else to do but constantly call the police or take action yourself. Instead of bugging the police all the time, we made them pay for keeping the neighborhood up. You think it was fair for my neighboors little girl to be woken up by spoiled partying students in a RESIDENTIAL neighborhood? How many days did she have to go to school tired and worn out because this is a college town and students think they have the right to disturb everyone else? Her parents helped to join in the horn celebrations because they were sick of seeing their little girl suffer. If she suffered, then those hung over jerks got to suffer too. This all only came about because these kids didn't care how many times we asked them to be respectful. There was no ordinance back then to take care of these jerks. And my truck was puked on because it was the closest thing that ass could hang onto as he lost his cookies. And the cat - my neighbor just hated cats. Thought it would be fun to try to blow it up. Didn't think it was fun when the cop took all their fireworks (including illegal M-80's which was what they were trying to tie to my cat). That night he did get cited and some people arrested.

I have neightbors now that sit outside and drink and make plenty of noise. No problems, because they are cool and tone it down after the sun sets and take it indoors if they're getting to loud. I'm not a B**ch, just a hard working person that deserves to be able to go to bed and sleep at night.

Anyways - still go back to my original point that I had plenty of parties and always respected my neighbors. It sounds like you Power would have fallen into the class of "I'm a student so suffer because we rule the town". Bite me! I call Lawrence home, you do not. You must be a JOCO kid.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 9 months ago

""The students that come in for 8 months out of the year need to realize they are "guests" in this town.""

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

I live in a college town? Wow, what a suprise!! Ok, I think I know this little piece of trivia. I DONT CARE!! I live here full time, I grew up here this is my HOME town. If I choose to move to one of the students town to go to school for a few months. I would treat the people and town with respect, because I am a VISITOR!!!! Just think how any of you out of town students would feel if visitors did things in your town, your home. I betcha wouldn't like it all so much. I'm just saying respect one another. I don't have a problem with college students in general. I know where I live and expect it. What I do not have to live with is the cr*p attitude that just because this is a college town the students can come and do what they please, like being a student makes you exempt from the rules or being a good person. That is the issue, respect.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

"Just one person that does not like you can get you in big trouble that is how this code is set up."

I agree completely momma. Just because everyone doesn't abuse the ordinance does not mean that it is set up to operate in a fair and objective manner. It is simply too easy for people to use the current structured ordinance to spite their "visitor" college student neighbors.

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Sigmund 7 years, 9 months ago

Partying, drinking and smoking should be done in the bars downtown, where we can watch them on closed circuit television. After they get good and drunk send them to the public sidewalks to smoke their cigarettes, yep, thats the ticket.

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

"The students that come in for 8 months out of the year need to realize they are "guests" in this town."

Come off the "I was here first" routine. The bottom line is that the ONLY reason that Lawrence isn't a backwards, hole-in-the-ground hick town is because of the students. Lawrence would be Garden City without all the wonderful contributions the presence of students provides.

The Lied Center--not without the U of Kansas Museum of Nat. History--nope Vibrant downtown area--I doubt it... there are more, I just can't think...

I get so tired of the "real" citizens of Lawrence being content to reap all the benefits of the University, then bellyaching when traffic is a little congested--you don't know hectic driving until you've lived in Chicago or even KC for that matter.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

penguin: Oh I bet I know the area you are talking about. Somewhere in the area of 9th and Indiana?

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logicsound04 7 years, 9 months ago

Guess what? If you live in a college town--especially a 27,000-student university town--there will be the occasional party. It seems to me that both offenders and "watchdogs" should be accountable and that anonymous noise complaints be erased. Oh wait, we can't inconvenience the old fart that has a grudge against his next door neighbors.

With the trend Lawrence has been following , I fully expect to see City Hall establish a Gestapo to crack down on college students who are out after 10pm. Between half of the DEA being at Wakarusa and allowing citizens to file completely unaccountable complaints, I feel like I should move to Darfur, where they are more tolerant of diversity.

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kingdork44 7 years, 9 months ago

ekidwell,,,, a picture is worth a thousand words. I aggree with you.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Power, Just so you know. I LOVE it when the students are gone. I can get across town in less than 15 min without the worry of being run off the road by the out of town students who seem to think you can drive anyway you want. I didn't move to Lawrence because of the University. I had no choice since I was an infant at the time. But I grew up here and this is my home. The students that come in for 8 months out of the year need to realize they are "guests" in this town. They don't own it and I don't feel the people that live here should have to make adjustments because the students want to party and thats the way it is. Thats stupid.

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penguin 7 years, 9 months ago

I actually was not blaming the police...Im saying their role has changed and they do not even have a chance to show leniency. I guess I do not make it back to many parties in Lawrence, but everytime I do the LPD has arrived. Some have been pretty tiny parties too. However, there is a cranky old man down the street from the guys I know where most of the parties were at and he is well known for calling in people all around him.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 7 years, 9 months ago

"The important thing is to learn from those mistakes and I believe that he is plenty smart enough to realize that."

So, since you know him: How many more citations do you think it will take before his "plenty smart" side kicks into gear and starts learning from his mistakes?

Maybe he's not the "selfish" kid that I imagined him to be. Maybe he's just weak, and can't say "Dude, it's time for you to go home." Either way, your analysis of "plenty smart" doesn't really sound very credible. By that I mean that he doesn't seem to have the right kind of smarts.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

momma the code has to be "observed and deemed a noise problem" by the actual officers on the call. If somebody called on you for being slightly noisy and the cops came and heard no noise or heard hardly anything within a certain distance between the caller and the person they were complaining on the officer would just advise you that there was a complaint to make you "aware" but that it probably didn't meet the requirements for being an actual nusicence on a noise complaint. But I know as a person who used to work nights and I know about the noises during the day that hinder your sleep. It's hard enough to sleep with the sun out, but then have your neighbors mowing, having BBQ's, etc while you are trying to sleep is a problem as well. Granted I have never called the cops on this problem because most people have a regular schedule, but just FYI there are those that must sleep during the day, so respect of noise levels at ALL times would be nice for everyone.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

penguin, it's not the cops who have changed it's the laws. Now that the noise ordinance says you can file a complaint and still stay anonymious, those callers have nothing to loose, "so lets call the police for every little peep the neighbors makes". The fact remains that nobody should have to take any kind of abuse from anybody in their neighborhood, whether is be from noise or whatever else. People need to learn to treat others with respect.

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tony88 7 years, 9 months ago

Kornphlake, when are you going to cite the hedonist's classic "You've gotta fight for your right to party" in support of your position?

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

Damn, Kmat, I grew up in Lawrence went to college around the same time as you, threw numerous parties in the Student Ghetto, had many of them broken up but I can't remember a singe time when somebody was arrested. Are you sure we are both talking about the same Lawrence? From where I am sitting, you seem to be full of sh*t to me.

As for honking your horn, that is no different than fighting fire with fire. Perhaps there was a reason somebody puked on your truck and tried to tie firecrackers to your cat's tail. Sounds like you were attempting to start a war as opposed to alleviating the problem.

People, Lawrence is a college town. It is youthful, and immature at times; however, you mustn't forget that Lawrence is what it is because of the University. Somebody mentioned something about moving to Eudora if you want to throw large parties. Wrong! If you don't like large parties, move to Eudora. The unfortunate thing about this ordinance, and some of the other recent ones that have been passed, is that it detracts form what makes Lawrence such a unique town. The whole situation is actually very ironic. There was a large influx of people into lawrence in the 90's because it offered something unique and different. Now, people are trying to change it into another boring, conservative, bland Kansas town. I just can't make any sense out of it....perhaps it is why I moved away.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

this code is set up to stop all fun day or night big out of hand or family get together. All it takes is one person calling the police over and over about the same house and you fall in this area. It does not matter if you are throwing out of contol parties or just like to have weekend bbq with the family. Just one person that does not like you can get you in big trouble that is how this code is set up.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Just to be clear. I wasn't bashing Adam. I was making a generalization towards the situation as a whole and also was directing alot of my opinions to those posters who were upset because people won't let them have fun and they are college students and the city of Lawrence should just accept this type of behavior because it's a "college town". This attitude that they have is completely wrong and a total "me, me, me" trip. Seems to me Adam has learned his lesson and taken responsiblity for his actions and unfort. when you are the renter on the lease you take the brunt of the problems that arise from others careless acts.

Thank you.

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kmat 7 years, 9 months ago

Powershopper - some in the 80's did have insane parties, and I remember many of them getting busted up and people getting arrested. Most of these parties were on the hill, and the majority of houses were students. Still didn't make it right. Unlike those people, I did still respect my neighbors, like any decent adult would do.

Honking my horn in the moring to wake up the hung over little jerks that didn't care if they were disturbing the neighborhood until 5:00 am wasn't hypocritical. Remember - I said I told the other neighbors (which were ticked about the non-stop parties as much as I was) the plan, and many times they joined in. Sometimes you have to be a little mean to get your point across. They didn't care if the neighbors came to tell them to keep it down when they were having the parties, so they got the neighborhood's punishment. They chose it - we didn't want to have to do it. When partying kids (and partying on all days of the week) decide that the rest of the neighborhood (including people with small children who had to go to school the next morning, elderly neighbors, and those of us that just had to get up and go to work the next day) doesn't matter, then they get the wrath of the neighborhood.

Only once did I call the cops, and that's when one person puked on my truck and then began trying to catch my cat to tie fireworks to it's tail. That ass learned a lesson when he had to scrub my car off (the police made him do that - I was about ready to grind my knee in a place he wouldn't forget). When you have neighbors like that, you think honking a horn in the morning to make sure their heads are throbbing and making theml come talk about what they did is hypocritical? And this wasn't in a party neighborhood, just in south Lawrence where it's all ranch and split level houses. I expect the parties at the apartments where mostly students live. When you pay good money for a house in what's supposed to be a good neighborhood, then have stupid, partying kids constantly disturbing the peace, you have the right to call the cops and get them in trouble.

Adam may be a soft spoken kid, but he obviously needs to learn some responsibilty. He had already been in trouble with the law before (allowing fighting on the property doesn't sound like a good, responsible kid to me), but he chose to keep having loud parties. He didn't learn from getting busted before, so now he pays the consequences. That's a life lesson for him. His aunt should be in trouble to for allowing this activity to continue on her property.

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penguin 7 years, 9 months ago

I lived in Lawrence not too long ago and I remember having well to say the least out of control parties without the need for police intervention. The only time I can even remember the police showing up was because some party guest decided to not wait for the bathroom...if ya get my drift. In that instance I can totally understand the neighbors being angry.

However, they also knew well in advance we were having a party. So they did not take action until things were obviously out of hand. I do not fault them and actually the police were a welcome sign to clear out. This was only a few years ago and we never got a ticket and the party cleared out. I had this happen at a number of different places (whether I was one of the hosts or was a guest). The LPD always seemed to say have at it, but do not make us come back again. The message was always respected and no legal action was necessary.

I guess the funny connection I am seeing is the shutdown of parties and banning of a lot of things....and the PLC city commissioners. I remember back in 2003 hearing about how the PLC would be great for students. They worked to get students out to vote for them and well look what has happened. I do not know if that is the people to blame, but the Lawrence I knew just a few years ago has certainly changed.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

I still like the caption just makes you laugh.

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ekidwell 7 years, 9 months ago

I feel like I should step in and say that I know Adam and he's a good kid. Yes, some mistakes were made and he has owned up to them. He's very kind and to anyone who knows him in person he most certainly doesn't come across as a "whiny little kid who should have been spanked by his parents" in the least. The fact is when you're in college you will be invited to/throw some parties that might get out of hand. The important thing is to learn from those mistakes and I believe that he is plenty smart enough to realize that. However, he's right. I once lived next to a couple who would call the police if we watched a movie too loudly (I don't like loud TV or movies so I know it wasn't ever very loud) and we lived in two different duplexes that didn't even share a wall (the neighbor we DID share a wall with said he never even heard us)! Some people are just incredibly crabby when it comes to noise and one person's evaluation of excess may be skewed a bit conservatively.

The point here is to say that Adam isn't the monster some of you think he is. He genuinely is a soft-spoken person and I'm glad to know him.

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Calliope877 7 years, 9 months ago

I don't have a problem with people having fun, but when my floor starts vibrating at 3 o'clock in the morning because the dumb@sses downstairs are blaring their stereo, that's not "having fun" that's just plain annoying.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

KMAT - I hope you aren't referring to parties in Lawrence in the 80' and 90's. I remember house parties going all night long that would spill into the streets. This was when Lawrence was at its pinnacle and had the rare honor of being declared one of the top party towns by both Playboy and National Lampoon Magazine. Funny, that timeframe was also when Lawrence was experiencing economic and residential growth so unparalled it was garnering national attention. I wonder if there is a correlation?

As for honking your horn early in the morning, don't you think that is just a bit hypocritical.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

OHhhhhhhhhh kmat, I like that idea!! I too did my share of partying in the 80's. But like you mentioned I was considerate of others. I never got so hammered that I couldn't remember what happened or that I was being a jerk towards others. I really think it has alot to do with how you are raised. Plus the fact that alot of these college students are away from home for the first time and feel this is their right to passage or something. Which I don't have a problem with, but please keep things civil.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 7 years, 9 months ago

Kmat:

It's not so much that they weren't taught by their parents, but that they WERE taught. An entitlement mentality says "I can do anything I want", which is exactly what their parents taught them when they were growing up.

They were groomed for this level of immaturity and selfishness.

Here is what I find odd: On another page, we can find a story about how Warren Buffet is giving tens of billions away to charity, with plenty of posts about how bad the rich are and how Buffet is "bad" (in spite of his selfless act). On this story, we read posts from people who are voicing support for the selfishness of these party-hounds, with attitudes that support the idea that a person should be able to party hard at all hours/volumes, and that if we dont' like it, we can all MOVE. What kind of generation are we? Praise the self-centered man-child... crap on the philanthropist.

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kmat 7 years, 9 months ago

There is a big difference between a small, little bit noisy party and the large, bass bumping, music blaring, kids puking on your car in your drive way, tearing down street signs, harming others property, picking on the neighbors pets, etc.... that happens with a lot of these parties. I actually moved and bought my house in N. Lawrence to escape the insanity when I did research to find out that very few properties in N. Lawrence were rentals.

I was a student in the late '80's early 90's and I partied hard. The difference - my firends and I respected our neighbors. After midnight, all action moved indoors, music was turned down, and no one was allowed to hang outside UNLESS they were quiet. Never once did a neighbor complain, and I'm talking about 50-100 people hammered out of their skulls. Students can party and respect their neighbors at the same time.

I've noticed since I was in school that the attitudes of students have changed. My nephew is now a student here, and the parties he talks about make me ill. Most kids today seem to have no respect for anyone but themselves. They've been so spoiled (too many rich JOCO kids here) that think the world is there's for the taking and haven't been taught by their parents how to be responsible adults. We have to remember, these kids getting in trouble are supposed to be adults. I refer to them as kids because they haven't bothered to act like adults so they don't get the respect of being called one. My nephew has also commented about how many college guys invite young teen girls from Lawrence to these parties, and then bets get taken for who can get them drunk and score first. These are not the parties I had and went to as a student.

I would like to know the GPA's of the students that keep getting busted for these parties. These kids are here to learn, not get drunk and disturb their neighborhood.

If you have any neighbors like this, here's sweet revenge for a late night party. I was always nice and would try to talk to the one's having the party (they were usually to drunk to care). Instead of calling the cops, they would awake bright and early the next morning to my car horn, right infront of their windows, blaring until they got up to come outside so I could have a nice, loud talk to them to explain the problems while they were so hung over they could barely function. (If you do this, please tell your other neighbors the plan out of respect for them. I had neighbors join in that were as mad as I was).

Being an adult means being responsible. If these kids parents didn't teach them responsiblilty, then the police and city can. Otherwise, they can run back home to JOCO.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

I guess that depends on the type of drugs the party goers are using..lol

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

I just like the caption under the pic. " disorderly house" does it change after dark? turns all red and glows with beady eyes forcing people in to drink and lick cars? hee hee hee

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 9 months ago

"...because then you will be threatened at the very least." Observer.

What's this guy going to threaten you with... a hackey sack?

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observer 7 years, 9 months ago

3 times in 3 weeks, should be evicted. sounds valid to me. also this type is the ones, you don't dare talk to, because then you will be threatened at the very least.

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kingdork44 7 years, 9 months ago

Yes, What ever happened to the Broomstick on the ceiling or going over, next door and telling them to calm down. Has Lawrence changed that much? But then again,,, Licking the Hood? This means a whole different story where I live now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 7 years, 9 months ago

"His second strike may have come on June 18. Police were called to the home about 3 a.m. to respond to a fight in progress. Stuart said a group of people had come to the apartment after being at a bar, and that some people who don't live there began scuffling outside."

Translation: His place has become known as an after-hours party destination. People know to just "go" there. Living by this guy is probably like living next to a bar... a bar with really late hours.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

I know you didn't say it, and I didn't read into it that you said it, I was just saying there are those types of people around even if you were as nice as can be, because of the alcohol or whatever, they get mad and may do something. I'm just saying it does happen. Most are great people and have no problems. I just think that might be why others call the police instead of having a little talk, they know the history of the subjects and would prefer to leave that up to somebody who have armour protection...

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

ok just to be clear by one on one I meant just a normal talk nothing else do not know about everyone else but I know my neighbors so just walking over there and saying hey its alittle loud is fine but I know that in some areas that is not possible. But in no means did one on one mean any kinda violence. sorry if any one reads that in there. And I do know about the whole need for cops issue on some parties and I did say some people are left to cops. Oh the good old days when you could tell the people next door to shut up and not worry about people shooting your house up....

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, I think most people call the police so they don't have to have that "one on one" talk with their neighbors. But I also think others are afraid of retailiation from the neighbors if they talk to them about the noise and I know from past experience that some become verbally abusive and threatening if you do try to talk to them while they are under the influence, so some may not have another option. And in the article it did state that one of the calls was for a fight that was going on. It's never good when things start getting physical, you never know who at those parties might have a weapon avalible to them.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

some how none of that makes much sense, so just be respectful on both sides of the party.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

well I agree loud at two in the morning is not fun and yes do something I like the one on one approach no police the really do have better things to do. But the people that are calling and complaining at all hours of the day, need to get a clue people have parties and bbq and like to have fun, during the week I think 10pm is late enough but on the weekend and in the summer that to say no fun for you after ten is just a pipe dream. I have found in most cases that if you go and ask that people turn down the music and take the party away from your window they do, that being said there are always the ones who will try to kill you, so always be wary and know your neighbors before yelling at them.

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 9 months ago

Between "stop hating", the random evolution slam, and people not knowing what civil liberties are... well, by golly, this has been an entertaining thread today.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Momma I agree, but then you probably don't live next door to the homes that have a party every single weekend or even during the weekday. That would get old really quick. And I really don't think its so much the noise as it is with all the stuff that comes with it. People urinating in your yard or other yards, trash thown about, people stealing your lawn decorations or stomping your flowers. These are just a few of the annoyances that happen when parties take place. Most people are good neighbors and clean up the messes and make sure they invite decent people to the parties. What happened to people respecting other people?

I just don't understand this "I don't give a cr*p attitude, because I'm in college and it's "expected". Treat others as you want to be treated. Being in college away from mommy and daddy doesn't give you the right to violate others. I know most were raised better.

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dhill00 7 years, 9 months ago

Seems to me that every generation grows up and a select few that did not have the fun that most college kids have turn into grouches. Then in turn they become old, complaining, no fun, a**holes who have nothing better to do with their time but stop others from having the fun they have never had. If you dont like parties next to your house, maybe you shouldnt live next to the university.

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monkeyspunk 7 years, 9 months ago

Haha, "stop hating" he says. Are you twelve?

There are noise ordinances, the young people should realize that and respect it. Same goes for loud vehicles and barking dogs.

People who are disturbed by noise violations have every right to call the police. Whether the children realize it or not, there is an expectation of comfort in this city, hence certain ordinances related to noise and other things.

If the violators have a problem, they can move to Eudora.

When we moved into our most recent house, two young men came over and gave us a piece of paper. On it was their names and their phone numbers. They asked that if we ever had a problem with noise that we call them about it before calling the police. The guys lived a block away! I imagine that if college kids that intended to have parties took the above type of measures, there would have never been a need for the city/police to become involved.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

heck I do not need loud parties or anything like that to have fun I just send my kids and husband out to anywhere and enjoy the quiet. As anyone with kids, dogs, neighbors, or basicly live in town can tell you noise is an everyday thing. I do have neighbors that like to party and do so on a reg. occasion but I do not need to call and complain about them. not to mention that if you do not live in the right place around here the cops will take about an hour to get to you.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Kornphlake, tell me what don't you like, what bothers you, besides people complaining about this issue?

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

Do you all not see the hippie party people of yester year have grown up and forgotten what it is like to be 18-25 so we must call peterpan to make them remember, before it is to late..... hurry hurry never mind to late lets just go throw a party at their house's

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

Kornphlake said: Yes you are right lets turn Lawrence into the rest of Kansas.

Couldn't agree with you more.Like I said, Lawrence is "Cutting of its nose to spite its face" Makes you wonder why the census numbers fell short.

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

You know momma, the noise ordiance is enforced 24 hours a day. So obviously somebody was bothered by the noise the BBQ was generating. I'm not saying it's right. Especally when people only have a few days out of the year that they have get togethers and it's a decent time of day. Trust me there are people who complain about every little peep other people make. Please need to be more tolerant, but living next door to the daily party house is another story all together. It's not fair to the others that live near them. If that is the kind of activity they crave, maybe they need to find a home way out in the country.

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Kornphlake 7 years, 9 months ago

Oh I have seen the error of my ways. Yes you are right lets turn Lawrence into the rest of Kansas. I thought I liked living here because it was more tolerant then the small Kansas town that I'm from, but I've been wondering about that lately. If I wanted to live in a typical Kansas town I would go home.

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govols 7 years, 9 months ago

car licking?? this clearly made my day.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

As far back as I can remember, Lawrence has been a college town with multiple house parties taking place on any given weekend. The Lawrence I remember is accepting and encourages the college experience, a big part of which is house parties, sofas on porches, etc. It seems to me that the Lawrence City Commission is cutting off its nose to spite its face.

Oh, by the way LJ World, way to go on turning Adam Stuart into the grassroots hero of the KU party community. If I were him I would be cutting this article out and framing it.

One more thing, I had a bird sh*t on the hood of my car the other day. Is there any way I can press charges against the owner of the tree I was parked under?

Come on Lawrence...!!!!

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Nobody is taking away anybodys rights. Just be a good citizen, care about other peoples feelings, property and families. Just because there ARE bars, doesn't mean YOU HAVE to go to them. And if you go to them, nobody is holding a gun to your head making you drink more than is you can handle and act like a total jerk. Have fun, whatever, but be responsible and don't blame the liquor. Some of these people live here ALL the time, not just the time for a few years to go to school. Which, by the way, is what you ARE here to do. Not visit every bar avalible and try to out drink everybody else. Be a grown up, you want to be treated that way, act that way.

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kingdork44 7 years, 9 months ago

Lawrence, Remember in the mid 90's when the house with the embrellas hanging out of the tree in their front yard was sited for code violations? I see Jimi Hendrix and John Lennon posters Popping up all over town.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 9 months ago

the is just a bunch of people who do not like other people to have fun. Yes some partys get out of hand and they are the ones that should have to be delt with. Ionce had a neighbor who was having a summer bbq and people called the cops at 5:oo in the afternoon, not am, pm, the same person who called the cops about amonth later was out building a shed in his back yard at 2:00 am about a month later and did not understand why people where yelling at him and telling him to stop. And no he did not work nights and sleep in the day so that is not the reason. He is just a d**k that is all.

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Kornphlake 7 years, 9 months ago

Don't be a hypocrite, or stop hating. Which isn't the logical arguement old man.

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tony88 7 years, 9 months ago

I hope you don't think that is a good logical argument... "pursue hedonism!". Come on kid, grow up.

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Kornphlake 7 years, 9 months ago

Be more active, so you can sleep better. Don't blame kids having fun for you being a lite sleeper. It sounds like you got some issues to work out with yourself, issues that you're all to quick to blame on kids having fun. Half of the people that are trying to enforce this ridiculus code were offenders of it in their day. Lawrence didn't just turn into a party town over night. The other half are mad because they never got to be those people.

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tony88 7 years, 9 months ago

because of noise disturbances...

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Kornphlake 7 years, 9 months ago

Why aren't you free to sleep?

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tony88 7 years, 9 months ago

Yeah. Taking away freedoms? Like the freedom to sleep?

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Agnostick 7 years, 9 months ago

Licking cars? Wummers? Hose code violations?

Clearly, this is a Monday morning...

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com

P.S. Good example of how alcohol impairs judgment. Had the kid been sober, he probably would've done things right by hitting the car and licking the woman...

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Kathleen Christian 7 years, 9 months ago

Well heck, what do you expect? If you EXPECT young people to party, drink and gather in masses then this is what you get How many bars are there in Lawrence? Each bar is a invitation for College students to come in drink, party, get wild then take it out into the neighborhoods. Now the law makers want to put a bandaid on the problem by taking away all rights to all people. They are now trying to control our own homes. Next we'll have noise inspectors at our doors monitoring how loud we watch our TVs or speak to each other.
There is one thing to have a law that prohibits disturbing the peace, but as far as controlling what happens in rental homes that should be the Landlords responsiblity. If he has renters who have been cited for disturbance then the Landlord should evict them and it should state so in the lease. Also somewhere down the line these young people have to be accountable for their own actions. But to take away EVERY ONES freedeom isn't the way to do it.
Everybody's always looking for the easy way out and the scapegoat to take the blame.

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tony88 7 years, 9 months ago

Yeah. Civil liberties? Like the right to sleep?

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Kornphlake 7 years, 9 months ago

Where is the ACLU at? How come there have been so many civil liberty stories lately and I haven't heard anything from them. Lawrence is making laws to take care of non-problems. YOU LIVE IN A COLLEGE TOWN! If your neighbors our partying welcome to Lawrence. If that bothers you, move to Eudora.

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powershopper 7 years, 9 months ago

What is going on in Lawrence??!! Too bad it is no longer a college town.

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DaREEKKU 7 years, 9 months ago

OldEnuf, this is one of the few times I agree with you (Satchel needs to remove their post). My fellow college students need to start being more responsible in terms of respect for fellow neighbors. Marion-are you kidding me? That's a horrible ordinance! I'm curious to know more. I hate my landlord I have now, so you're saying I should put an old arm chair on the porch maybe? :-)

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 9 months ago

Enforcement of the notorious "Sofa Ordinance" will also shortly begin.

Last wummer I saw a memo which indicated that the City Of Lawrence had already targeted over 1500 houses which had "improper"; that is, non-weatherproof furniture on porches or patios (And it makes no difference whether or not the proch or patio has a roof!) for ticketing on the basis of voluntary demolition.

This means that if your hose is in code violation, the city can declare it to be under demolition without a permit and proceed against both the property and the property owner.

In the meantime, keep an eye out for those whose houses are being prosecuted, as you will be able to buy those properties for less than market value....

http://www.rivercitytalk.com/disorderlyhouses/dishouse.html

Thanks.

Marion.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 7 years, 9 months ago

"I guess when you buy into evolution, hook line and sinker, you tend to de-value other people and disrespect them. All that matters is yourself. That is sad."

I'm not a big fan of evolutionary theory, but this statement doesn't make any sense. Satchel, if you ever wonder why we Christians find ourselves under attack on these message boards, it's because of nonsense posts like this one.

Remove your post.

-

But, more on-topic: YES! "Prosecution". Music to my ears. His parents may have failed to wake this BOY up, but the DA is going to do his part to try and help this BOY to grow up and be a man.

To his aunt: You are a crappy citizen. You know what kind of problems he causes in the community and in the nieghborhood, yet you just let it happen. Shame on you. He may not know better, but you do, yet you facilitate this behavior. That's right: "facilitate". You are part of it.

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macon47 7 years, 9 months ago

barking dogs are just about as much fun loud late nite parties.

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bmwjhawk 7 years, 9 months ago

Just when you thought you'd heard of the last of the car-lickers....

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reginafliangie 7 years, 9 months ago

Stuart needs to know that whether the complainer was anonynous or not. The police have to SEE or HEAR the violations that the caller is complaining about. If they don't nothing is done because they (police) haven't witnessed it themselves. So obviously these violations were being done in site of the police to warrant a ticket or fine. So if he thinks that his neighbors can call about any little thing and get him in trouble he's wrong. The police have to witness it. So I wouldn't stress about it if you aren't doing anything wrong.

Parties are ok, every once in a while, it's the people who have them every weekend that are the problem. Be fair to those that live near you, they might not want to "party" every weekend.

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bendaddy 7 years, 9 months ago

"acknowledges he probably deserved tickets in both the June incidents"

Here's the first step in growing up; recognizing you've done something stupid. Step two: don't do it next time.

When I'm working my house on a saturday morning, I don't start at 6 am with power tools. I try to respect those around me. All it takes is a little respect.

I have no complaints about a little music or a burst of laughter drifting over from the neighbor's. The problem arises when their music wakes my little girl up in the middle of the night and I wake in the morning to find MY yard covered in beer cans and broken bottles.

Most people are pretty tolerant of noise and activity during the day. Even from 10 to 12 at night you can be "tollerant" but how far should I bend over backwards for people with no respect for others?

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moveforward 7 years, 9 months ago

I've got it... more laws that enforce personal responsability and neighbor tolerance... plus, let's add in urban sprall, the homeless, hippies and roundabouts. Did I miss anything?

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Kathy Gragg 7 years, 9 months ago

yes well I would rather have drinking college kids then the guy with the truck that rattles windows for 5 housins down everutime he starts his truck or the fire master that builds bon fires in a 20X20 yard every frickin weekend or a bunch of inattetive parents whose kids leave their bikes in the street blocking the road.

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moveforward 7 years, 9 months ago

When a landlord buys a property in a quiet neghborhood (oread circa 1973) and splits the house into 8 apartments, or when developers find a small partial of vacant lot and build a fourplex, they are the ones causing the disruptions. How much of this can you put on students, how muchon the university, the property owner, and the city (who supervise permits and urban planning). College students will have parties. Some will be loud. Sometimes, neighbors need to be more tollerant.

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macon47 7 years, 9 months ago

just be glad these charming little boys aren't your neighbors.

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gbaker 7 years, 9 months ago

Not to worry, I'm sure the city will ban drinking anyway.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 9 months ago

"I guess when you buy into evolution, hook line and sinker, you tend to de-value other people and disrespect them."

I guess when you reject all forms of reason and logic, you tend to make statements like the above.

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bankboy119 7 years, 9 months ago

I'm not sure how evolution already got thrown in here but, sure, go for it.

I don't really know what to think of it besides the fact that he looks about 16 in the picture. I think threatening people with eviction because of "urinating in public" is pushing it a little far. Noise complaints as well, I mean get over it.

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Redzilla 7 years, 9 months ago

satchel--Agree with you that this kid is whining, but your logic just doesn't work. No clear link between belief in evolution and lack of respect for other people. Or is that what's going on with Fred Phelps? He believes in evolution?

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satchel 7 years, 9 months ago

"They could call about the smallest thing - just because they don't like us," he said

What a whiner. He didn't get spanked enough when he was a kid. Sheesh..

It doesn't shock me that he has a hendrix and lennon poster and is a biology student.

I guess when you buy into evolution, hook line and sinker, you tend to de-value other people and disrespect them. All that matters is yourself. That is sad.

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DownHomeDude 7 years, 9 months ago

It sounds to me like they have worn out their welcome!

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