Advertisement

Archive for Sunday, June 25, 2006

Surrogate mother goes against trend in conservative states

Lawrence woman carries baby for gay couple in Calif.a

June 25, 2006

Advertisement

If her pregnancy goes as planned, a Lawrence woman's baby will have 10 fingers, 10 toes and two proud fathers.

The woman, Meagon, has chosen to be the surrogate mother for a gay couple in California. Soon, doctors will attach a donated fertilized embryo - not her own - to her uterine wall, and her pregnancy will begin.

Meagon, 25, is married with two young children. She put herself through college selling eggs to a fertility clinic.

She said that in the beginning, she didn't care whether the adoptive couple was gay or straight. But other people in Kansas might, which is why she asked to not use her full name.

According to Fay Johnson, program coordinator for The Center for Surrogate Parenting, surrogates in conservative states such as Kansas often are scarce.

"Sociologically, it's an edgy thing to do," Johnson said. "The more conservative the place, the less surrogates."

Johnson said she knew a surrogate mother who moved to Missouri from California after carrying another couple's child. Within weeks of the move, rumors circulated around the tiny town that the woman and her husband had "sold their last child."

That could be why her organization, which connects surrogate mothers to adoptive couples, has dozens of surrogates in states such as California but only "one or two" in Kansas.

Lifestyle concerns

The Rev. Terry Fox, senior pastor at Immanuel Baptist Church in Wichita, said that he and other religious conservatives don't oppose the practice of surrogacy because it is still reproduction through natural means.

"I don't have a problem with the surrogate procedure," Fox said. "The Bible is pretty silent on that issue."

But he said he did see a problem with surrogacy when it results in a gay couple adopting a child.

"Children do better and have a much greater quality of lifestyle with a traditional family," Fox said.

He added that gay advocate groups could use surrogacy as a platform to "help recruit children to the gay lifestyle."

Meagon said she likes to believe that her community will be open-minded to surrogacy.

"I think being in Lawrence really helps with the gay part," she said, noting the gay couple was a little nervous after learning she was living in Kansas.

Meagon said though pregnancy can be uncomfortable, the good feeling she'll get from helping the couple will make each ache, pain and scrutinizing glance worth it.

"My children might be gay when they're older; they might be infertile. I hope they learn that, especially in America, doors don't close for people who are different. Or people that have disabilities or people who have different sexual orientation. There's always opportunities," she said.

After talking the idea over with her husband, who she said was incredibly supportive, Meagon went to work to find a surrogacy program. After much research, she found Growing Generations, an organization that connects couples with surrogates.

Tests for surrogacy

Becoming a surrogate isn't easy. Growing Generations put Meagon through vigorous tests, including psychological screening and credit and background checks.

Meagon said she had to take an IQ test even though the baby won't share her genetics. She also had to confirm she had never accepted government welfare or Social Security payments.

"They want someone who doesn't necessarily need the money but could use the money," she said.

Since being approved, Meagon has worked closely with the parents-to-be to schedule appointments and work out a financial arrangement. In the Midwest, surrogates are paid about $15,000 per successful pregnancy.

The California couple also will pay for all medical bills, maternity clothes and travel expenses during the nine months. Meagon said the two men plan to attend most of the medical appointments.

Meagon said since she's come to know the couple, she is more excited to help them become parents, adding that turning the baby over to them after birth will be easy.

"It's not my baby; it's their baby," she said.

Legal issues

Surrogacy laws in California are well-defined and fairly liberal. But in Kansas, the legal issues associated with surrogacy are fuzzy.

According to Kansas law, paying the surrogate mother more than medical expenses, legal fees and living expenses is a felony.

Another Kansas law states legal maternity can be established by "proof of (the surrogate mother) having given birth to the child."

That suggests the surrogate mother could claim the baby as her own after giving birth.

According to Rachel Pirmer, a Kansas attorney who works closely with Growing Generations, surrogacy in Kansas is uncharted territory.

"There are no statutes that deal with surrogacy in Kansas. None. It is an unsettled area of the law," Pirmer said.

But so far, Pirmer said, she has never worked on a case where a legal dispute complicated the process. She added that in every case, the parents file for paternity or maternity rights and the surrogate also signs a contract in which she agrees to waive her maternal rights completely.

Pirmer said because of the intensive screening surrogates go through, the chances the mother will change her mind after birth are slim.

Pirmer said she had no idea how many surrogacy arrangements are made in the United States or even in Kansas. Neither does Johnson of the Center for Surrogate Parenting.

"There's no way anyone would know that," Johnson said. "Nowhere does this kind of stuff get recorded."

She explained that because surrogacy arrangements aren't noted on birth certificates, states don't track the number of babies born to surrogate mothers. Also, because a lot of surrogacy arrangements are made between family members, friends or through other private means, keeping a tally is impossible.

Johnson said that in 26 years of business, The Center for Surrogate Parenting has arranged 1,300 births.

Comments

lunacydetector 8 years, 6 months ago

sounds like a wonderful way to supplement your income if you're a woman.

however, i feel sorry for the child - what a stressful household he or she will grow up in. not only is he or she adopted, but he or she has to deal with the school yard bullies because his or her parents are gay. the whole thing is quite selfish.

Sigmund 8 years, 6 months ago

I'm cool with selling babies in Kansas, it shows how progressive we are. Maybe the gay couple in California will appreciate how open-minded we are! Is there a way the City Kommission to tax it? 7% of 15 grande a pop, we will have both sewers and a library in no time!

JHawker 8 years, 6 months ago

I really enjoyed reading this article and hope that it will open people's minds. I once read a quote saying that Lawrence is a "blue island in a sea of red" and i'm so glad to be on this island.

xenophonschild 8 years, 6 months ago

Amen to that, JHawker. Some us are working hard to expand the boundaries, to move our beloved Kansas into the blue.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 6 months ago

"Is there a way the City Kommission to tax it? 7% of 15 grande a pop,"

They'd do even better if they could tax all the "Filbert!" posts on this forum.

classclown 8 years, 6 months ago

Homosexuals just want to be treated the same as everyone else. So let them make their own babies like normal people do.

When they're able to do that, then I would have no problem with them raising kids.

coldandhot 8 years, 6 months ago

jhawker and xeno,

Statistics show the state is getting redder...sorry...nice story, but gay couples should not be adopting babies. Kids need a mom and a dad, not two dads or moms. That is very confusing.

Rhoen 8 years, 6 months ago

I agree: That baby is very likely to be "blue" in whatever state it resides. The child's sense of self will be rooted in the reactions of others to him or her - and little children on the playground (even in Californai) are not likely to be as politically correct as their parents.

It would be good to find competent and caring homes (of gays and of not-gays) for babies already born. Despite the Reverend's opinion (with which I don't agree) that surrocacy is "natural," it is not normal. And there's no shortage of children who need good homes. Why sell the "fixin's" for additional ones?

Selling body parts is simply a weird form of commerce, and when the body parts are gonads, its a form of sex-work. Let's not frame it as a form of do-gooding.

Also, a question: How will the baby "not be sharing her genetics" - are her eggs "blanks"?

bigheart 8 years, 6 months ago

Rhoen- The story states that a "fertilized embryo" will be implanted in the surrogate, using the sperm from both the men...the surrogate in gestational surrogacy, is quite simply an oven for the bun.

I have a couple issues with what the Reverend stated. A gay home is not by itself a stressful home. A stressful home exists when there is no love, no financial stability and lack of love for the child. Sexuality and political affilation, thank God, have NOTHING to do with the desire for children.

I am saddened that people cannot see outside the box, but not suprised at the response either.

I was in the grocery store the other day and I saw a woman with at least 7 children, all clearly her own. They looked underfed, no shoes, their hair hadn't been brushed in days...all running a muck in the store. That, my friends, is simply not fair.

The ability to reproduce or not reproduce goes beyond political affiliation and religious beliefs.

I think what this person is doing is extremely self-less. Its a good thing.

To address the comment about PT conferences, kids are embarassed of ALL their parents, gay or straight. I would be more concerned in KS of people having a mullet or a full set of teeth before gay-bashing.

Kelly Powell 8 years, 6 months ago

But redneck bashing is all the rage today.....My only real opinion about this is that there are thousands of orphans who need a home and i wish they could of adopted instead of breeding out another human on this allready overcrowded world( and no, I will never have a kid......when my girlfriend is ready, She will get off the pill and I'll have my junk tied off)

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

Odd that this is even in the news, let alone as a front page article. The woman must have contacted the JW to make sure her story was told. Not only does she sell her body parts, she is a publicity hound. Or, perhaps this is motivated by political and social activism on the part of the gay parents or the the medical clinic. Maybe she got paid an extra bonus to get herself in the newspaper. Call it a "public relations consulting fee."

I gather she will tell her two children that the baby she is carrying is a gift to others and that they should plan to do the same when they grow up. Will they celebrate their surro-sibling's birthday every year?

These kids will probably wonder when their mom plans to give them away, too.

xenophonschild 8 years, 6 months ago

coldandhot:

There are lies, and there are statistics.

One thing the statistics also show is the red population of our beloved state is aging dramatically: all we have to do is be patient and wait for the trogs to die.

I've always maintainted that a place this beautiful deserves better people . . . and liberal Democrats will do our best to realize that once the old geezers join their dead Galilean.

Kelly Powell 8 years, 6 months ago

what a callus statement...those "trogs" are somebodys parents or grandparents who worked their butts off so their kids could have the freetime to think about politics and other issues than survival. Remember, you to will be a "geezer" one day.......Will it sting when some jagoff wishes for YOUR death?

Rhoen 8 years, 6 months ago

Bigheart, a great deal of what you said makes perfect sense logicaly and emotionally.

BUT, you cannot create an embryo with only sperm, no matter how many gents you have contributing - there's an egg in there somewhere, and I guess I assumed it was from this lady.

What she's doing is not "selfless" though, since she's doing it for money. That's commerce no matter how you slice it.

kingdork44 8 years, 6 months ago

OH, MY, GOD, Two gay parents will make the Child turn out to be Gay. So tell me????? Why do Children of Hetro's turn out to be Gay?????
and not fell like they have to go out and steal Turds.

UHHhhhh.

kingdork44 8 years, 6 months ago

And Yes, I agree with you Marion. There are so many unwanted children to adopt. Just Like I have a problem with all the yuppies paying alot of money for their pure breed Labs. ect. Hello? How many dogs are put to sleep annualy every yeay. Oh. We want the Perfect dog, to go along with our Perfect lives. Hello People. There is some mutt at the pound that will love you just as much as a pure breed. Not to mention, Be alot smarter.

bigheart 8 years, 6 months ago

Marion - when you say "these people" do not want children...do you mean GAY people or people in general who do cannot have children by natural methods?

Parenting is HARD work...there is little notoriety in it at all...and then throw a bunch of ignorant folk suggesting that gay people are turd burglars, what a GLAMOROUS lifestyle.

kingdork44 8 years, 6 months ago

enforcer, rightthinker. What kind of dogs to you have?

bigheart 8 years, 6 months ago

There is no heroism in surrogacy...none at all. Just people, like you and me, with a desire and means to have their own genetic children.

Get over it. :)

kingdork44 8 years, 6 months ago

Chill out enforcer. I admire you for doing what you do. I myself have never had the opportunity to raise a pure breed dog or own one. I can tell you that through the years of my life I have adopted at least a dozen stray cats, Giving them a loving home. Right down to taking them into the vet to have them put down. I'm sorry for my preivous statment. May I tell you, I take it back. I also had a dog in Lawrence that I adopted from the Humane Society. She lived to be 18. Give your Dogs all the love you have. Also what is ever around you. No hard Feelings.

bigheart 8 years, 6 months ago

Stray cats ARE everywhere! I had 3 in my yard this morning!!!

squirt 8 years, 6 months ago

I am glad that these two men are able to have a child. Of course they can't have one together seeming how they both have sperm. I just love how so called "Christians" can always judge people because we are not like them. Do you really think anyone is listening. No one cares and when this child grows up he will be straight or he will be gay. As long as he has 2 parents that love him and give him the best life that they can then that is all that matters.

Good luck to the dad's to be!

Grundoon Luna 8 years, 6 months ago

The Rev Fox is a moron!! Gay parents will indoctrinate their children with the homosexual life style? Where does he think homosexuals have been coming from from since the beginning of time?

The research available shows that children are very well adjusted coming from gay homes and are actually less inclined to become gay, not that that matters at all. Of course, the family values schmucks will pull something out of thier arses to contradict that but how credible can you be if you chose to ignore science.

Adopting babies is expensive and so is surrogacy. Except with surrogacy you can have the biolgical edge that will prevent a birth mom from dashing your hopes at the last minute and throw whatever money you invsted down the tubes. If your DNA is in there at least you could get visitation if not custody.

javagirl78 8 years, 6 months ago

Marion -

Did you adopt YOUR children when there are soooo many that need to be adopted? Just because one cannot physically bear a child, does not mean it's their responsibility to find a home for all the homeless children.

I am unable to carry a child. Next month, my husband and I will be flying out to San Diego where my dear sister will be carrying our baby for the next 9 months (G-d willing). Gestational Surrogacy is a BEAUTIFUL thing!

Like I said, just because I can't carry a child does not make it my responsibility to find homes for all the children who need to be adopted.

PS - Because my sister is our surrogate the cost of our surrogacy is FAR less than a domestic adoption would be.

-J

javagirl78 8 years, 6 months ago

We've discussed this issue EXTENSIVELY with our Rabbi and are very much a peace with our decision for my sister to be our surrogate.

-J

javagirl78 8 years, 6 months ago

Ha! You don't even KNOW me.. I'm sorry you're such an angry person. I'm also sorry your children were "accdients". We WANT our child(ren).

This is, in no way, a feel good self indulgence.

I've never felt so good in my life - you won't be ruining this for me either - sorry!

I start taking meds tonight for operation baby set for the end of July! :)

Thanks, -J

brujablanco 8 years, 6 months ago

javagirl78:

Don't let them make you feel badly about your decision - they are bitter and moronic in their thoughts and deeds. Since we seem to have a few pet-lovers on board; generalizing in re: lesbians being unfit to raise a child is the same as generalizing certain dog breeds are vicious. Get a life........

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

uncalled for you two alittle below the belt enforcer.

classclown 8 years, 6 months ago

I found this funny.

"This is, in no way, a feel good self indulgence." Immediately followed by "I've never felt so good in my life".

Quite the contradiction isn't it? Pretty much proved his point as well.

egypt 8 years, 6 months ago

I guess this goes to the people worried about 2 gays raising a child and ruining the childs life. I went to school with a boy who was black, he was raised by two white lesbians He was in the popular crowed in high school , had a girlfriend, played many many sports and was a good student and is now in college, So after being raised by two lesbians he was well mannered a hard worker, smart and seemed to live a normal life.

Hopefully this couple will raise this kid to be open minded of everything... I know other people could be a bit more open minded

brujablanco 8 years, 6 months ago

The American Academy of Pediatrics' Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health issued a report in 2002, the most recent comprehensive review of gay-parenting studies. It found no meaningful differences between children raised by gay parents and those raised by heterosexual parents.

The committee reviewed scientific literature encompassing three broad sets of studies. The first set assessed the attitudes, behavior and adjustments of lesbian and gay parents and found, according to the AAP report, "more similarities than differences in the parenting styles and attitudes of gay and nongay fathers." Likewise, the research showed that lesbian mothers scored the same as heterosexual mothers in "self-esteem, psychologic adjustment and attitudes toward child rearing."

The second set of studies looked at the gender identity and sexual orientation of children raised by gay parents. The committee report found that none of the several hundred children studied evinced gender identity confusion, wished to be of the other sex or consistently engaged in cross-gender behavior. No differences were found in the toy, game, activity, dress or friendship preferences of boys or girls with gay parents compared with those with heterosexual parents, nor any differences in sexual attraction or self-identification as gay.

The third research area discussed in the report covers children's emotional and social development. These studies have primarily compared children raised by lesbians who are divorced with children of divorced heterosexual mothers. No differences have been found in personality measures, peer group relationships, self-esteem, behavioral difficulties, academic success and quality of family relationships. The studies suggest only one meaningful difference: Children of lesbian parents are "more tolerant of diversity and more nurturing toward younger children than children whose parents are heterosexual."

short_one 8 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

brujablanco 8 years, 6 months ago

Oh, good grief! This link was an interview only - and look who the interviewee is!!!! Dale O'Leary, a writer and researcher for the Catholic Medical Association.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

"This woman is kind enough to do this for these men."

If she were truly "kind," she would not be paid for her deed. She is what she is: a baby incubator for hire.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

"So how do you feel about using donated frozen embryos? The one in this article is not biologically related to her or either of the two men."

How do you know that? Why would they go to the trouble to "make a baby" and not use their own sperm?

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

I love this quote. ""They want someone who doesn't necessarily need the money but could use the money," she (Meagan)said."

Somehow that makes it even ickier. Maybe she could be forgiven for renting out her womb for basic needs, like food and basic housing, but to think of someone doing that for, oh, I don't know, a new Fendi bag, or a cruise, or, eeeuuuwwwhh, a tummy tuck ,(!) makes my skin crawl.

I wonder what degree she financed by selling her eggs? Let us hope it was a field that does not give her the opportunity to counsel others about making life choices.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

"Actually the article said they were using sperm from both males."

How did they do that? Have they figured out how to get an egg to accept two squigglies at once? Now, THAT would make this a story worthy of the front page!

bigheart 8 years, 6 months ago

If a typical surrogate is compensated 15K for carrying a child, lets break that down:

15000/10 (gestation is actually 10 months)

Surrogate is only earning, per month, $1500. In Lawrence, one with a degree could EASILY make that amount per month with an entry level job. This is NOT a lot of money, especially when you consider the risks, i.e., ectopic pregancy, miscarriage, gestational diabetes, preclampsia, and God forbid, death.

The act itself, is totally self-less, the compensation is to cover the what-ifs and the pain/suffering endured during pregnancy/labor.

bigheart 8 years, 6 months ago

Godot:

You have know idea what the surrogate is using the money for. Maybe her mother is dying and she would like to help her family put her into a nursing home. Maybe she is going to donate it to her favorite charity to support underprivelged (sp) children.

For you to assume, that she is going to pop a baby out and then go on a cruise is pretty ignorant.

Secondly, research is supported by people like Meagan who are willing to put their bodies at risk. If you don't agree with it, don't get your next vaccination or take penicillin.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

Oh, the excitement, the drama! Which egg impregnated by which daddy's sperm will be born? Will they do a "who's your daddy?" test to confirm, or will they just wait to see who he or she resembles? What if he or she resembles the unknown mother? It happens, you know, sometimes the mother's dna is dominant. Then they will never know who the real father is!!! ARRRRGGGHHH! A social tragedy in the making.....

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

"If a typical surrogate is compensated 15K for carrying a child, lets break that down:

15000/10 (gestation is actually 10 months)

Surrogate is only earning, per month, $1500. In Lawrence, one with a degree could EASILY make that amount per month with an entry level job."

She can, of course, continue to work her regular job, whatever that is, and will be given maternity time off and benefits.

However, during gestation, she will not able to sell her eggs, so she will, in effect be taken "off the market." Maybe $15K is reasonable compensation that.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

Wonder what her health insurance plan would think about paying for a "commercial" pregnancy and delivery?

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

"The company I work for let off a co-worker who did this for her sister for 2 weeks after the birth as disability so that she could recover from the birth but she did not get the regular maternity leave of 6 weeks because she did not have a newborn to deal with."

I take it the sister was not paid to be the gestator.

I hope Meagon's employer is aware of her situation. She does not deserve FMLA benefits for a commercial birth. Perhaps that is one of the reasons she did not give her full name for the article.

My guess is the daddies are going to claim FMLA, too. How far does this lunacy go?

Rhoen 8 years, 6 months ago

<<>>

Time was, one went to the chicken house to furnish the commodities for this type of income-production. Now, one goes to the fertility clinic.

There is no way this is a selfless act or a pro-social act or anything other than sex-work for profit - I don't care how many bows, whistles and little pom-poms you hang on it.

I have no problem with qualified singles or couples (gay, morose, or even-keeled) who are willing and able to provide a loving and stable home for children who need one being receiving a child who already exists and needs a loving parent or two to cherish and nurture her/him.

My problem is with the God-playing that is being done in fertility clinics, sperm banks, and other elitist for-profit venues.

You would think the Christian observers would find it as repugnant as I do - WWJD? Probably toss the fertility-specialists down the temple stairs with the other Pharisees and fortune-tellers who turned the temple into a chattel-house.

Check it out: There are hundreds of thousands of babies and children and teenagers in THIS country (ahem, Angelina and consort...) who go to sleep every night wondering why they do not deserve a HOME and whose dearest wish is to find one.

But that would not serve the ego-needs of those who want their OWN (or semblance thereof) baby. And these existing children are not considered.

Any person or couple who have found a way to give love and security to a child DO have their OWN baby ... that's what being a parent is: caring for the child who was made available to your life through the workings of the Universe (or G-d) and not through the wonders of science and a bloated 401K plan that can be drawn down for a kid or a Navigator or whatever the want-of-the-week may be.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

An appropriate ending to an absurd beginning.

This was not news in the first place.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

"An appropriate ending to an absurd beginning."

Perhaps me spake with haste....

DaREEKKU 8 years, 6 months ago

THe only reason the LJWorld put this in here was to stir up more junk. Some of you on here make me want to vomit. There are no statistics to show that kids raised by gay parents are done ANY harm. Obivously straight parents have done a fine job of screwing up America enough, just look at how things are now. Straight people have done a fine job of screwing marriage up, look at how things are now. This issue isn't about "morals" or some so called "god" or "american values" it's about power. A group of people who otherwise have no power unite in their bigoted "religious" beliefs to make another group seem below them and to empower themselves. It's purely selfish. Get over yourselves and get a more productive hobby.

BlondeTiger 8 years, 6 months ago

I couldn't have said it better myself DaREEKKU.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

Odd. Religion has been conspicuously absent in the posts about this situation.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

well, not "absent, " but certainly not prevalent.

Rhoen 8 years, 6 months ago

It's reared its ugly ... rear ... now though

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

daREEKKU, life is not all that bad, relatively speaking. What do you say about this article from today's JW?

brujablanco 8 years, 6 months ago

In United States law, alienation of affections is a tort action brought by a deserted spouse against a third party alleged to be responsible for the failure of the marriage. The defendant in an alienation of affections suit is typically an adulterous spouse's lover, although family members, counselors, or clergy members who have advised a spouse to seek divorce have also been sued for alienation of affections.

Just for clarification.

DaREEKKU 8 years, 6 months ago

What is right and wrong enforcer? Please..that's a weak argument. Godot, sure everything might be great for those Americans who enjoy civil rights, protections, jobs, etc, but what about everybody else (a large chunk of the population). Oh, and by the way religion was introduced early on. Just because SOME of you were raised in families with one mom and one dad doesn't mean that other families are wrong. I stand by my original statement. This is an issue none of you, including myself have a right to vote on, deny, etc. Gay marriage is not an issue any of you have a right to vote on, etc. These are basic civil rights and choices that, as Americans, we can't deny in a truly progressive society. I stand by my original statement. Get over yourselves and get a hobby.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

Well, I thought this article was about a woman leasing out her body to be used as an "incubus, "or "gestator."

Now you say it is about "gay marriage."

Perhaps this is why this non-news item was on the front page of the JW. Talk about one thing to promote another.

Who paid the JW to put this article on the front page, anyway? Isn't there some rule that requires news organizations to disclose when items in their publcations are "paid placements"?

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

Somehow gay marriage and surrogate gestation/delivery are joined at the hip, and whatever happens, either way, success or not, it is all Bush's fault.

Kelly Powell 8 years, 6 months ago

I'll admit, i have allways been fascinated with the idea of having myself cloned 20 times and putting myself into 20 differant social/economic situations.....it would be a hoot to actually put a dent into the whole nature/nurture quandry.

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

"Marion, these surrogates are using a donated frozen embryo. One that would have been destroyed. If you accept that conception is the point at which life begins, then this couple is keeping a life from being killed."

If these "life forms" had not been created by artificial means, there would not be an arugment about "how best to use them."

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

There is no "right" to procreate. There is no "right" to have a child. A man and man have no "right" to bear a child. Neitther do a woman and a woman. And neither do a barren woman and a fertile man, or vice-versa.

Quit f***ing with nature.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

only in lawrence does this cause such a stir anymore.

javagirl78 8 years, 6 months ago

Marion :

Please, do tell us all, did YOU adopt your children? If there are starving kids and babies dying in the womb... then why didn't YOU adopt?

PS - You have WAY too much time on your hands.

Thanks, Future Mom via Gestational Surrogacy

ChinaSyndrome 8 years, 6 months ago

The absolute agreement of the commentary in light of the article's suggestion that conservative Kansas and other red-states are unlikely to do such progressive things as surrogacy is astounding.

Although I am loath to being interaction with the commentators of the boards, congrats to the lady who's sister is going to be her surrogate. While I am at it, to those who disagree with this behaviour, don't do it yourselves and teach your offspring the things you believe. Leave others to believe what they wish and teach their children as they think best. Finally, last time I checked divorce and remarriage rates, many, many children in Kansas can bost that they have two mommies and two daddies, so the fact that this surrogate-born child will have two daddies is pretty much like most children in Kansas.

ChinaSyndrome 8 years, 6 months ago

Oh, enforcer, how did I guess that Hitler or Nazism would somewhere be in the response to my post? Oh, thank you for proving me so... right. I was simply pointing out that some children still have to go to Parent-Teacher Conferences and say these two men or these two women are my parents. By the way, you should not compare a Shaoh survivor to Hitler. It's really rather rude. May G-d have mercy on your soul. I know I will be praying for it. For your complete lack of compassion and care for your fellow man is evident in your angry little posts.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 6 months ago

"That is quite a stretch; comparing divorce and remarriage to a lifestyle of homosexuality"

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you, in part. I think that kids with "two daddies" are confused, no matter how they got the two daddies. Kids do NOT enjoy the confusion of broken families. Either way, the kids are likely to carry some wounds from the experience.

Straight people: Your heterosexual sins are every bit as destructive as any homosexual sin.

mom_of_three 8 years, 6 months ago

Let me say this loud and clear -

Swbsow - I COULDN"T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF!!

Linda Endicott 8 years, 6 months ago

Marion, That was really, really clever. I'm still laughing!

I do understand why China did it, though. Considering how many posts disappear on these boards, and you don't even know why, you think that maybe dropping a letter here and there might help.

acg 8 years, 6 months ago

Thank you ChinaSyndrome, for a little bit of reason in all of this insanity. That's something I just don't get about people. You are freaking out about gays, surrogates, liberals, blah blah blah, why do you care? How does this woman being a surrogate for a gay couple affect your daily life (and Marion, don't waste my time on any health insurance premiums are being raised bunch of crap). Truthfully, how does someone being gay, gay people being married or gay people raising kids really affect your life? You don't like the lifestyle? You don't agree with their choices? You think surrogacy is bad? Whatever! Don't participate. You think what you want to think, that's grand, just don't try to force your beliefs down my throat. Making a generalization like "kids being raised by gay/lesbian couples have no chance at normalcy" is a load of crap. My husband was raised by lesbians. His mom is a gay woman, she has a wife. They are great ladies, even charming especially now at their age. My husband is fine, he doesn't have two heads, he's never killed a man and no, he doesn't feel emasculated. It doesn't bother me when people feel differently than I do. I have always welcomed differing opinions. What does bother me is when a bunch of do-gooder "christians" get together and decide they're going to lobby congress with their tons of ill-begotten cash and have laws written and enacted that limit my freedoms and movements because they may differ from their own. What the hell gives you people the right? I tell you, though. A new day is dawning. Those of us who wish to be free are tired of fighting this particular holy war. I can't wait til it all comes to a head.

bigheart 8 years, 6 months ago

I agree with acg. Who cares?

GET OVER IT. You can't stop it. You can't change it.

Stop promoting hate and start promoting what you love. If you are against gay families, start promoting HEALTHY heterosexual families! Promote something positive!

Hate perpetuates hate, STOP hating people.

Grow up. Get over it. Get a life.

PYT1984 8 years, 6 months ago

I have a question to all you people preaching that this is a selfish act because they want a biological child instead of all the children who are homeless or in foster homes. Why is it any different for those who can make a baby in the "traditional" way, than those who can't? You aren't bashing the so called "normal" family about not adopting all those homeless children instead of having their own.
To Marion or Enforcer: Why did you have your own children instead of going out and adopting one of the foster children or homeless kids?? You are not making any sense. They want to have a biological child just like the rest of us who got married or have a significant other. This is a way for them to have a biological child and I don't understand why you all feel the need to make it your business.

craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

Not to defend him, but Marion said that it was unintentional and his kids came by surprise. Chances are the protection didn't work. Had he chose to have children we can hope that he would adopt, but quit bringing that point up. The point is when his significant other was pregnant he didn't escape with having an abortion, he followed through on the committment that his actions resulted in.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

bitter just bitter

Go to nevada And normal is not always better or "normal"

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

oh yeah it is already done so we really do not matter nor does our rambling. Throw a baby shower.

PYT1984 8 years, 6 months ago

So in your small mind, a normal family consists of a man and a woman. If the woman can not have a baby or the man can not get the woman pregnant because of medical reasons, do they now become not normal? Hmmm.

PYT1984 8 years, 6 months ago

Just to clear someting up Craigers, but he wouldn't be the one having the abortion. That would be his significant other. so, it's a good thing he escaped without an abortion.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

so who gets the baby shower her or them?? at this point that is the question.

craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

PYT, just to clear something up for you. It was both of them that made the decision to get it on, so they both should decide whether to have an abortion or not. Don't forget, sex creates a unison with that person. That is the reason sex is sacred. Something very few people understand anymore and do it with whoever they want.

PYT1984 8 years, 6 months ago

Never mind Craigers. I meant that as a joke, which you obviously didn't get. Forget it.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

I got it So does enforcer and marion disagree with abortion in the instance of rape?

PYT1984 8 years, 6 months ago

I can only imagine what their response to that would be. I do get a good laugh from their responses, though. Thanks guys.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

not knowing who the father is means you like to sleep around. Being rapedon the other hand is a violent brutal act that you have no choice in. Please at least call a rapist a rapist not a sexual partner. You really do need some kinda of help if that is what you believe.

craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

Sorry PYT, wrong side of the bed this morning. Which actually kind of sucks since i have to get up on that side everyday or I will smuther my wife. Once again, my bad.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

no he did what he did because he was a sosiopath who just happened to have military training and used it to his advantage to attack and kill people, including children. as for rapist I really want to see your stats on that one.

smiles 8 years, 6 months ago

enforcer - What planet / country are you living in currently?

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

well now to the point of the story. all over and done me you anyone else does not matter time for a baby shower.

Rebecca Valburg 8 years, 6 months ago

Any pregnancy carries risks. On top of the regular risks, you're adding that the egg donater be subjected to the high doses of hormones and the retreival process, you're adding the risks associated with implanting the woman that will carry the child, and it turns out, you're subjecting the child to a number of chemicals, processes, disturbances, etc. that nature didn't plan for. We're just now starting to realize that there are effects that we never bargained for. (http://www.illinoisrighttolife.org/20 http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/Commentary/News/2003/2003-0124-LAT-invitrorisks.htm03_2_InVitroRisks.htm http://parenting.ivillage.com/ttc/ttcinfertility/0,,45ng,00.html?ice=ivpp%252Crellnk%252Crlbox%252Clnk3) The oldest results of the whole process are just now approaching 30 - hardly time to even realize what all of the effects are. On top of this, the cost does not guarantee a child, only an attempt.

It does seem a little sad that America has children starving to death, and yet we keep purposefully creating more mouths, apparently thinking that our own personal genes are superior to what we might be able to adopt. Seems to me to be the ultimate act of selfishness (the quote "Like I said, just because I can't carry a child does not make it my responsibility to find homes for all the children who need to be adopted" makes my stomach turn) - letting others starve in order to further our own line. But apparently it's nature's way - the rabbits in my yard all try to out-breed each other, too. And to put your own sister at risk in the process - I don't understand at all. Granted, the risks are probably statistically low, but exactly what death/injury rates of our loved ones are we willing to accept in order to create a child?

As for JavaGirl, it sounds like you've already made up your mind, and so there's no sense in trying to dissuade you. I do hope that in the next couple of years, you do come up with a better reason to explain to your child how he or she arrived in your life. Surely there's a better line than "well, you were a whole lot cheaper than adopting."

meggers 8 years, 6 months ago

Richard Cory, I trust that you are donating to children in orphanages and/or foster care. BTW, your argument could also apply to hetero couples who don't choose to practice birth control. People like to have their own kids. It isn't necessarily the way it should be, but it is the way it is.

Enforcer, you really shouldn't allow a couple of experiences to shape your view of others. If the couple you despise happened to be black and you were to spout generalized insults against all black people in the manner you did in this case, you would be accused of being a racist. I won't get into labeling you or calling you names, but hopefully you understand my point.

Your allegations about the teen-age daughter are indeed troubling. Perhaps you should report such a situation, as you spoke so frequent and vehemently about on the CLO thread. After all, there isn't a lot of difference between a dependant adult and a minor child when it comes to abuse.

Good luck to Meaghan and the parents-to-be!

meggers 8 years, 6 months ago

I'm not angry, enforcer, and I'm glad you reported your concerns. Bad parents come in all shapes, sizes, genders, colors, etc. One's sexual orientation doesn't define whether or not they are a saint or a sinner. I'm really just disappointed and somewhat saddened by the lack of tolerance and downright hatred I've seen expressed on this thread.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

javagirl78 8 years, 5 months ago

RichardCory- You do not know me, nor do you know my family. Do not pass judgement on my decision on how to have a family. Did you adopt your children? If not, you might want to take a dose of your own medicine.

biandproudinwichita 8 years, 1 month ago

Growing Generations is a wonderful agency. They do their homework and ensure that both the surrogate mother and the intended parents are protected. I can't imagine why on earth anyone would fault someone who desires a biological child, but sadly, there are those who would. I have personally met five of the families created and expanded by Kansan Growing Generations surrogates. I can guarantee that none of the closed-minded bigots who are posting here cherish their children half as much as any of these wonderful people. To those who would judge: keep in mind that ANYONE can have a gay child. Including you. All of the available evidence demonstrates that the sexual orientation of parents has no impact on the sexual orientation of their children and that children of lesbian and gay parents are no more likely than any other child to grow up to be gay.

storm 7 years ago

Womb rental is a great idea. Congratulations to the proud fathers.

chlee_5 6 years, 1 month ago

This is to Marion and several others,What is your real problem? First of all the article clearly stated that the egg was donated and the men fertilized it. It will be theirs. Well one of theirs. Also what does this have to do with abortion? Surrogacy and Abortion are completely different. Educate yourself. I want children too someday, I have thought about adoption of even foster care. Because of uneducated bigots such as yourself I am not allowed to adopt of to foster children because I am gay. So really you and those like you are keeping those children out on the streets. I believe that gays make excellent parents. Who better to teach tolerance than those who aren't shown any. The problem with this country is our intolerance. "You people" should pay more attention to yourselves. This country was based on the foundation of equality. Its always the idots who try to press their interpretations of that on others. According to this coutries indoctrinations GOD creates so if a Gay man can fertilize an egg than theoretically God is allowing it. SO LET IT BE! Any agrgument agianst this would be going agaist youself then you would not have a leg to stand on. So go for it amputate yourself and look more rediculous than you already do. Oh and talk more about mix breed dogs that was real intelligent! I can cover that too! I will just fertilize an egg from another nationality. Smarter than you,Chad

Commenting has been disabled for this item.