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Archive for Friday, June 23, 2006

War protesters arrested

Chanting Iraqi names, group refuses to leave Army center

June 23, 2006

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A group of war protesters covered themselves in tomato paste, walked into a local Army-recruiting office Thursday afternoon, linked arms and refused to leave.

They were protesting the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians in November at the hands of U.S. Marines in the city of Haditha, an incident that remains under investigation. As protester David Strano read each name of those killed, the others in the group shouted, "Killed by the U.S. military."

"We're here to remind you. Every day these people are dying," Strano said.

The group chanted for about five minutes in the lobby of the recruiting center, 2223 La., then walked toward an office where the station's camouflage-clad manager stood talking on the telephone. As they neared his office, he slammed the door and shut himself inside. The group pounded and kicked at the door and kept chanting the names of the dead.

When the first Lawrence Police officer arrived moments later, the group immediately dropped to the ground face-down with their arms still linked. It took about a half-hour for officers to separate them, carry them from the building one by one and load them into a waiting prisoner-transport vehicle.

Two Lawrence Police Officers take one of several protesters Thursday afternoon from the Army recruiting office at 2223 La. The group members had covered themselves in tomato paste, linked arms and refused to leave the recruiting center as they chanted the names of slain Iraqi civilians.

Two Lawrence Police Officers take one of several protesters Thursday afternoon from the Army recruiting office at 2223 La. The group members had covered themselves in tomato paste, linked arms and refused to leave the recruiting center as they chanted the names of slain Iraqi civilians.

One or two walked, but most went limp and forced the officers to drag them. Overall, the removal went without major incident.

"They were resisting, but they weren't throwing punches or anything," Lawrence Police Sgt. Craig Shanks said.

All were arrested and taken to the Douglas County Jail on charges including disorderly conduct, trespassing and obstruction. Afterward, the recruiting station's manager declined comment.

About 15 of the protesters' supporters stood around the building videotaping the scene, writing down officers' names from their badges and holding signs with messages such as "Support all war resisters." One woman strummed a ukulele.

The Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines all have recruiting offices in the strip mall where the protest happened; the protest itself took place inside the Army's office.

Video

A group of war protesters cause a disruption yesterday afternoon at a local military recruiting office. Enlarge video

Some of the people involved were also involved in a previous incident in December at the same address, in which seven people locked themselves to the outside of the building with bicycle locks.

Lawrence resident Patrick Tyrrell, who helped organize the protest, said the linking arms was a deliberate strategy to show solidarity, prolong the protest and make the group harder to separate.

"This will be one more reminder that people are still dying. Unarmed civilians are dying because of this unjust war," he said.

Comments

lunacydetector 8 years, 6 months ago

i hope none of the policemen hurt their backs lifting these people off the ground.

3e8 8 years, 6 months ago

A waste of time and energy and food; we are a people of incomparable wealth.

geekin_topekan 8 years, 6 months ago

Hmmm.... What is the traditional war prtotest instrument? I figured a tamborine and maybe some congos.But a ukulele?Thats thinkin outside the box.

unite2revolt 8 years, 6 months ago

Couldn't the protesters have at least hit the right office? Those involved in the incident were Marines and Sailors not Army Soldiers. That's kind of like throwing rice at a funeral. If you need me today, I will be protesting McDonalds unfair labor practices over at Wal-mart.

I wonder if the Marines would have had them arrested if they had actually been protesting at their office?

PointofView 8 years, 6 months ago

Not that I am happy civilians were killed there, but glad this group was so supportive of our soldiers who are losing their lives to give these uke strumming, tomato wasting people. Perhaps they should have just donated the tomato paste to a local food bank?

Rhoen 8 years, 6 months ago

It might be more effective with American audiences to chant the names of American war-dead - and they won't have to start over at the top of the list nearly as often.

Doug Harvey 8 years, 6 months ago

Nice to see so many "patriots" -- that is, the above commentors -- supportive of invading other countries, stealing their resources, and the looting of our public treasury by the President's pals. Don't look now, blue73harley, but there's already a civil war in Iraq.

Thanks to the protestors for speaking out against atrocities done in our name.

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

old enough- You don't have a clue. You convolute the issues at hand by bringing christians into the mix. The christian bashing was 2 days ago, get over it. The soldiers that are over there are protecting you rights to post idiotic things on here.

Yes, you have the right to protest. But protest the leaders of the war, not the troops sent over following orders.

By the way Tenstring, we invaded a country to remove a man that slaughtered 250,000 people cuz he didn't like em. I think that's justifiable cause right there. I don't think freeing people from a leader like that is an atrocity. Get out there and see what it was like before we got there. If you're not brave enough, then be quiet.

quigley 8 years, 6 months ago

Little did the rest of the country know, but the tiny Lawrence, KS Army-recruiting office was actually the main intelligence office for the war effort in Iraq. The camouflaged man was on the phone with the president, and he informed him to stop the war immediately. Actually, about all the change you made was in your clothes, tomato stained shirt to orange jumpsuit. Come on people, the state capitol is only 25 minutes away. But thanks to your half assed effort, hilarity insued for the rest of us.

Jean1183 8 years, 6 months ago

I think I will go do something "nice" for the recruiters. Maybe take some sort of gift certificates to a place to eat nearby.

All of you who support them, do something nice for them too.

bankboy119 8 years, 6 months ago

Smitty,

You obviously didn't read the declassified report that came out the other day about how WMDs were found.

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

Well Oldenough, if that's the way you think, then that just shows your level of intelligence.....

Our troops are protecting the lives of civilians, and helping them rebuild their country. And I know A LOT of people that are Patriots, and not necessarily christians. So I guess you are saying that you are not a patriot....if that's the case, then get the he$$ out of my country.....Iran would be glad to let you in!!!!

Melissa Kounelaki 8 years, 6 months ago

Perhaps the LJW didn't report all the facts, but what exactly about linking up and going limp (traditional non-resisting protest behavior) can be considered "resisting" as quoted by Sgt. Shanks?

fcraig 8 years, 6 months ago

Linking arms is passive resistance. If you are asked, then told to leave, and fail to comply, then you should be arrested, it's called criminal tresspass defined in Kansas Law. Plain and simple. I'm sure they were given a chance to leave on their own. So who's fault is it they were arrested?

I understand they have a right to protest, but leave when asked. I'm sure everyone got their point.

happyone 8 years, 6 months ago

The protestors are not very intelligent.....they should have went to the Marine recruiting office a few doors down (If they were going to stay in town). Still would not have accomplished much but at least would have been with the right military branch. It seems to me it would have been a "better" protest to have done it at the Capital in Topeka, like someone else stated above.(Still shaking head at the stupidity)

Don't get me wrong I'm not for the War but I support the guys over there fighting.

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

You're right Enforcer- and there's a chip in our heads that makes us buy fertilized cabbage....and JFK was killed by one gunman....and Jimmy Hoffa is buried in my back yard.....It's about bringing down someone that slaughtered their own people....

The only people that were against the actions we took, were uneducated Iraqi's that thought living in fear was better than freedom....and ignorant people in America that have no clue how good they have it!!!!!

Get over yourself. It's funny to me that people that have never served their country, can run their mouths the way they do...yeah, you have the right to complain...but that doesn't give you the moral right to disrespect the people that are serving to preserve YOUR freedoms....

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

well enforcer big guns going alreadly today. Still to early for all this debate need more coffee

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

Enforcer- Owners of a business have the right to ask you to leave....they did, and they didn't leave....THEN it becomes criminal trespass....

Good lord you people are posting a lot of inacurate, ignorant statements this morning.

staff04 8 years, 6 months ago

On the WMD in Iraq thing...

Did anyone see the Frontline documentary on Tuesday night? They interviewed probably a dozen former CIA employees that say they were constantly hounded by the White House to find intelligence that wasn't there, or to publish marginal evidence.

It just seems awfully convenient that a lot has happened (or appeared to have happened) just in the last few weeks...

Election year...low approval... I'm not saying I don't believe it, I just think I have some legitimate reasons to be somewhat skeptical that this is not fabricated.

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

Good lord Enforcer, the whole world is against you! I bet it's the governments fault that your kids see violence on tv too!!! NOT yours!! And because my family serves their country in the armed forces, they are cowards? You are so confused. BUT, you so belong in Lawrence. Along with the other hippies.

Well guess what, we'll always have a military to protect YOUR freedoms, even if you don't want them, and even if you are too frightened to help maintain those freedoms. I"m sorry that your children will grow up with such a coward for a parent.

usaschools 8 years, 6 months ago

There are a host of reasons that there isn't much discussion about the 1 shell full of sarin that was used in an IED in Iraq. It is not known that this weapon was actually in Iraq prior to the invasion. It seems very likely that, were it in Iraq at that time, it would have been used. It also seems likely that the insurgents did not know what it was. It is not a smoking gun that somehow excuses the many lies and deliberate misinformation of the Bush administration, particularly Dick Cheney. It does not excuse going before the UN to repeat information that the intelligence communitity already knew was false. It does not excuse going before the American public in the State of the Union address (and in a media onslaught on the same topic) and telling the US that there was a definite connection betewen Al Quaida and Iraq. Many Americans still believe this false claim that has been thoroughly disproved.

TonyWonder 8 years, 6 months ago

About that report... "But the report, while noting Hussein's leftover chemical weapons could fall into the hands of terrorists, does nothing to undercut the assertion of U.S. weapons inspector Charles Duelfer in November 2004 that Hussein had no active chemical weapons program at the time U.S. troops invaded in 2003. It suggested the weapons had been produced before the 1991 Gulf War."

Before the Gulf War, as in when Saddam was our strategic ally against Iran. We knew we would inevitably find some antiquated chemical weapons, because we have the receipts!

To suggest that we invaded Iraq because of Saddam's crimes against humanity is unreasonable, or at least hypocritical, considering we were willing to turn a blind eye when it suited our needs.

Did this protest accomplish anything? Probably not, and the details (smeared tomato paste??) might serve to undermine the anti-war movement more than anything else, but at least these people care enough to do something other than slap a ribbon on their car. They just need to be much more PR savvy if they plan on actually winning anybody over...

usaschools 8 years, 6 months ago

Sasquatch, In case you did not see my apology last night in connection to the crossing story, I am going to repeat it.

I apologize. My statements were rude and out of line. I was having a really bad day, but that is no excuse for being an ass*#$#, it was my mistake. Nothing personal, you just happened to be there when I was being an ass. Sorry. My apologies.

usaschools

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

So TonyWonder, putting a ribbon on my car to comemorate the fact that my family members are serving over there is not enough to show my support? I should pour tomato sauce on myself, and lay on the wrong branch of the military's floor? That sounds logical.

That's the problem with the hippie side of this debate, you don't think logically. You think of the best way to get at the "christians, conservatives, patriots" as old enough put it.

I bet you all voted for Kerry too......I loved his campaign slogan....."......uh....what do I stand for?....uh......Bush is BAD! Look at all the bad things he did. Pick me!"

usaschools 8 years, 6 months ago

I agree with Sasquatch on this one. I did not support going to war and think it was a grave mistake. However, I don't see how we can leave now without serious consequences. I don't see the logic of setting a firm date for withdrawal. From a tactical standpoint, it provides the enemy with strategic options that they would not have if they had no idea how long we would be there. They could lay low, wait for us to withdraw, then ruin all that had been accomplished. It would be nice for the military to develop a target timetable and share that with the Congress, but it should not be a public matter. The military needs to fight this war, not the Congress. I don't pretend to know much about warfare, but I do think we need to let the military make military and strategic decisions and then keep our representatives informed. I disagree with this war, but just walking away won't make it right and would have more negative effects than positive from what I can gather. I respect your right to totally disagree, but that is how I feel.

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

Your daughter was raised by someone that enjoys the freedoms he has, and then burns the flag in protest of the troops that defend that freedom. I would expect her to say no. She has no concept of what it means to serve, and to defend those freedoms, just like her parent.

usaschools 8 years, 6 months ago

I think that putting a ribbon on your car is LITERALLY the least you can do.
As John Prine sang decades ago, "Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore, it's already overcrowded from your dirty little war, Jesus don't like killing, no matter what the reason for; your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore."

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 6 months ago

Smitty apparently you did not read yesterdays news about WMDs. If the inspectors who had been in Iraq way before we invaded in 2003 why did they not find these WMDs if they were doing such a good job. I have used this example in the pastthat many protestors can understand...if you have one "joint" and a cop tells a guy way in advance you are going to raid his room for drugs...how many places can you hide that single joint in the bedroom. Now think of how many places you could hide something in an entire country of a paranoid dictator with underground road systems and multiple palaces to promote security.

Here is the most recent article(partial with a link to read the whole thing.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/22/060622191218.0qmfazt6.html

Iraq chemical weapons too old to use: US intelligence officials Jun 22 3:12 PM US/Eastern Email this story

The chemical weapons that have been recovered by US forces in Iraq were all made before the 1991 Gulf War and were too degraded for their intended use, US intelligence officials said.

Republican lawmakers have cast the disclosure that about 500 chemical weapons have been found in Iraq as evidence that Saddam Hussein had a stockpile of the weapons before the March 2003 US invasion of Iraq.

But the intelligence officials, who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity, said the weapons were too degraded to have posed a threat to US forces in March 2003.

They said all chemical weapons found since 2003 were produced before the 1991 Gulf War and they had no evidence Saddam was producing or stockpiling chemical weapons after that.

"Generally they are in poor condition," one official said.

"We assess that they are not in condition to be used as designed. And detailed analysis of the toxic agents shows they are degraded and represent a much lower hazard," he said.

The munitions have been tested and computer simulation models created to determine what effect they might have under a variety of scenarios, the officials said.

Although not suitable for their intended purposed, the officials said such weapons remain a potential hazard if obtained by insurgents and modified in ways they would not discuss.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 6 months ago

"Citizen taxes pay for that recruiting office " this land is your land. This land is my land" not criminal trespass"

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I've been looking for a place to set up a wood-working shop so I can make my wife some furniture. I'll just move a table saw and a planer in there and get to work. I'm so glad to know that it won't be trespassing because it's "my land" in there. Hopefully, the sounds of my screaming saws and all the sawdust won't disrupt the work they are trying to do there. But, they will just have to cope, because, as Enforcer just pointed out, that space is just as much my space (to do whatever I please with) as it is the U.S. military's. Next winter I'll be needing somewhere warm where I can gut a deer during deer season. Since that recruitment office is "my land", and they have a furnace, I'll just gut my kill there. It's nice to know that I own that office and that I can do whatever I want to do there anytime I want to do it.

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 6 months ago

Everyone keeps saying Iran was more scary and evil...correct but you have to position yourself for invasion if you do go to war with Iran. go to map quest and check out what countries surround Iran. Hmmm Iraq... Afganistan

Additionally, any one who understands strategy knows it is better to surround the bad guys and have supply routes in.

This is strange ...where is Bozo for this conversation...are you in jail for protesting.

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

Ok Monkey, you know that's not going to be enough for this forum. Those weapons would only kill thousands, not hundreds of thousands, so it doesn't count. Ask enforcer, I'm sure that's not enough to defend human life. We should definitely just stand by, complain, and smear tomato sauce on ourselves to show how much we care :)

usaschools 8 years, 6 months ago

Tony, On the topic of justification for the war: I haven't been able to find the link this morning, but a couple of weeks ago I read a story about a doctoral student who wrote a dissertation on the shifting rationales for the war. He based it on actual public comments given by president Bush, Cheney, Rice, and other top cabinet officials. He found that there were over 100 unique rationales given for the war (123 if memory serves). One thing is certain, NO ONE in the general public can authoritatively say what the true rational for this war was and is. We can more clearly state what it is not.

Just calling it a war on terror is hypocritcal given the undisputable and long-established fact that the US funded and trained terrorist death squads in El Salvador and Nicaragua during the Reagan administration. We like to forget the Iran-Contra scandal. We funded terrorists,we paid for terrorists to act on our behalf. It is only when it was on our own soil that we became outraged. There is no excuse that can wipe that slate clean and no revisionist history that can justify US sponsored terrorism.

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 6 months ago

Interesting how the media is always present at these things...what do they do a press release

Saw Strano the media whore was in the middle of the mix...I guess he did not have to work

staff04 8 years, 6 months ago

The negative attacks are working. Do we not have the right to criticize?

You say we offer nothing? Our alternatives are shouted down without consideration. Clearly you do not understand how the government works under Republican control.

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 6 months ago

The biggest problem the US and most who complain about war is we have been indoctrinated by Hollywood to believe a elite team of ten Navy Seals or Green Berets can go into a country take on an entire army of a third world country and win in a three day period while humping in the woods with only a hand full of dramatic buddy scene deaths occur.

They also have to do this while having a large group of innocent villagers in tow to "get them to the safety" of a neighboring friendly country.

It is not that way people. Even Team American got it right

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

Enforcer, I hope one day you can live in your happy little world of Wetlands and frogs and hippie freedoms. If you hate the US so much, why do you live here? Why don't you move to a better country, like Iraq, where you can be free?

And by the way, EVERY post that you put on here that bashes on the troops, is uncalled for. You can disagree with the war all you want, but stop attacking the troops.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

enforcer if you keep it up with the anti america line people are going to tell you to get the hel* out of the good ole USA.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 6 months ago

Is this really supposed to be a discussion about WMDs and the legitimacy of the war? To me, the ethical question that this situation asks is "Is it 'right' to blame our men and women in uniform?"

Those of you who are supporters of this protest: Explain how YOU would articulate your views on the war to a soldier who is IN IRAQ TODAY. What is the correct way to do that? Would you say "you are a murderer"? Would you insult their invovlement? To me, that's what these protestors did. Why not protest in front of the White House, where this debacle was conceived? Why terrorize a soldier in a strip mall?

Someone explain how THIS protest was "right".

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

enforcer as anti just about anything you really seem to have no stand at all. what do you really believe in? Any thing or do you teach your kids just do what you want a be dam* with the rest of the people on this planet?

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 6 months ago

"DAMN THE UNITED STATES"

So, your plane leaves at what time? You are packing as we speak, right?

I mean, clearly, if this place is to be "damned", then as a good father, you are leaving with your kids on the first train out of this hell-hole, correct? Surely you wouldn't want to put your family through the pain of living the lies of "freedom" that we are all living. How could you possibly stay here? So tell us, where are you going?

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

So you don't live freely enforcer? You have the right to go to church where you want, eat what you want, and say what you want. Drive your own car, across state lines, with no papers. WAIT.....maybe that's the issue.... Are you an illegal immigrant? That would explain everything!!!! You don't have any rights, because you aren't a legal citizen!

Whew, glad we got that cleared up.

freudian_slip 8 years, 6 months ago

Protesting for the sake of protesting. I can't stand it. Send them over to Iraq to live under Saddam's regime for a few days and then they will shut the hell up. Better yet, put them in a simulation booth and show them what it would be like if we had never historically gone to war for our freedom and security.

Yes, these people are entitled to speak their mind. But, I really don't believe they have thought things through. It's just something to do. A way to fit in with their peers. Protest for the sake of protesting (for the most part).

Jamesaust 8 years, 6 months ago

"People have the right to protest the war."

Of course. They just don't have a right to break the law in the process.

happyone 8 years, 6 months ago

I'm surprised enforcer didn't put Assistant Principal's that have had a drink of alcohol in the past 90 days on her list too.

Kelly Powell 8 years, 6 months ago

Once again somebody had to throw out "redneck" in their rant.....Guess what body, if you live in kansas all the west and east coast people that you try to emulate think YOU are a redneck. Another person asked why they did not protest at the capital.....The answer, Stranos groups knows if they get arrested in topeka they would most likely not get the case thrown out of court like here....I'm all for freedom of assembly, but these guys are clownshoes.

craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

I think the protestors knew not to go to the Marine office, they probably would have gotten their butt kicked. And what is up with kicking the door like little kids. He didn't engage with them so they try to break stuff? They seem like a mature group of people and must be the only truly enlightened type of people in America.

n8n2010 8 years, 6 months ago

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chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

n8n....they were protesting at the ARMY recruitment office....so they were protesting the ARMY...which in turn had nothing to do with the killings in Haditha....

Uneducated, misinformed people like you are what make this country great!!!!

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

they are not stifled they just must mantain a respectful distance. To me I would think respect for a grieving family should have been enough to make sence to these people but they do not seem to have respect for anyone.

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

Once again enforcer, you spew out hippie BS. Don't you EVEN complain about the treatement of POW's, when you hate the soldiers in our mitilary. Don't talk about freedom anymore, because you have no idea what it really means! All you want to do is complain. If there's nothing to complain about, you make something up.

As for the funeral protests...ARE YOU KIDDING? It's a FUNERAL. Not a political gathering. You have absolutely exposed yourself as someone that stands for nothing.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 6 months ago

"why do you support legislation to stifle a certain group who protest funeral? You do this because you too limit that freedom to those who agree with your stand"

Or, it could be because a protestor shouldn't infringe on my rights. My right to peacefully enter a recruitment office and sign up for service, and my right to lay my loved ones to rest without interference. There is a point where one's right to speech becomes more that "talk". That is why Fred needs to be dealt with, and why these protestors needed to be arrested. You tell me: what would have been wrong with staying on the sidewalk? I'll tell you what's wrong with that: as Laura put it yesterday, their ACTUAL goal was to be grandstanding. Their intention was to make the news, not to express a viewpoint. So you tell me: Was it legally correct for them to interrupt the recruiter's ability to do his job? Should he have to deal with the noise of them banging on his door and CHANTING while he's conducting business on the phone? Were they doing NOTHING MORE THAN EXERCISING FREE SPEECH, or did they cross a line?

chzypoof1 8 years, 6 months ago

Oh enforcer, people like you make my day. You think that protesting a funeral shows that you are a patriot. And that refusing to have anyone in your family support the freedoms they have, you are a better person. My entire family has been in the military. My Father and Brother served in Iraq. They are proud Americans that support what they believe in. Protesting the ones that keep you safe is as Anti-American as it comes. You probably support flag burning too, don't you?

Our country would be a better place without people like you in it. I am not trying to stifle your point of view on the WAR. I am trying to understand how you can disrespect the people that are doing their jobs to protect you. No matter what you say in the upcoming "brilliant" posts you will no doubtedly bless us with, you can't take away the fact that you wouldn't be here, speaking the language you speak, living freely with your family without the military.

I'm not posting anything else in response to your posts. I will not lower myself to your level anymore. You disrespect the people that support you, in the name of being "more informed". Have a great day!

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

freedom in this country has been hard fought for and many have died for it. If you do not enjoy that freedom or understand this freedom then you really have no Idea what freedom means. Yes the protesters have the freedom to protest but not break any laws and yes the recurter has the right to call the police if he choices to. And enforcer has the right to say what he wants this is a hard earned right. I do not agree with enforcer on alot of issues but that is a freedom I have to tell who ever I do not agree with them. But freedom has nothing to do with respect and that is what phelps lacks.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

enforcer a funeral is for the greiving to say good bye not for the dead to rise again. And yes war kills so does alot of things but if there were an al-quida member standing there with a gun to your daughters head what would you do? Just watch ? I think not.

ljlook 8 years, 6 months ago

attention left-wing bloggers:

Where were you at when the protesters were at the recruiting station? Guess you are all talk.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

really if you want to make money you do not become president.

staff04 8 years, 6 months ago

Most of you people make me want to vomit--on both sides of the argument. Please please please study up on this issue. And, by the way, that means reading more than one news source. There are a lot out there. Peace.

Jay_Z 8 years, 6 months ago

Enforcer, wow, you seem to be a clear thinking person.....wacko!

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

not the right of a corpse but the family trying to say good bye. pehelps is just mean not anything in my opinion remotely christian. I will keep on supporting our soldiers no matter what, I may not support the basis of the war in Iraq, I do support our efforts and reasons for Afganistan. But the soldiers I support100% no doubt.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

yep some people have no clue of life outside the USA

n8n2010 8 years, 6 months ago

jeezzz..........where's the Apocalypse when you need it.

hagar 8 years, 6 months ago

Is anyone out there protesting the murder of our two soldiers, and other hostages, held by the "insurgents" (read: criminals)? Where is the International Red Cross, the Human Rights Organizations? Conspicuous by their silence. Still crying about Gitmo or trying to find secret torture prisons? Instead this garbage is abusing their 'rights' that all military personnel are sworn to defend.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

well timmy boy was just a sosiopath with no remorse and not what I would call a true repesentation of our soldiers. I know plenty of soldiers that have seen combat and do not come back and just decide to blow up people because they do not agree with the governmentI believe the word is terrorist right the same guys we are trying to take down in the middle east. Make no mistake about it we are no longer fight saddam we are at war with bin laden and his group over there and they do not fight "fair" they see all westerners as animals and could care less who is in the way when they try to cut off the head of the "beast".

n8n2010 8 years, 6 months ago

You're making Buddha cry, are you proud of yourselves now?

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

drug addiction , achohol abuse, robbery charges, do not make a terrorist.

harleycowboy 8 years, 6 months ago

OK now for something from someone who is serving in Iraq ... Get over it the military will be here till the job is done an that can take many years just like Korea look how long we have been there an Germany... I did not know that there was such stuipity in Lawrence about lil things like this guess the members of he community are not as wise as hey think they are ... there are schools being built by US troops roads, Hospitals an everything in between to help this country that we are supporting get ou from under just cause ruleing... if you dont like what you have in he STATES get out an move o some third world country an see how you manage thier .. so unwrap your blanket of freedom that America gives you an move along lil doggie move along to somewhere that will let you do as you want an say as you please ... oh wait there is no where else like that in he world is there !!!!

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

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swampmusic 8 years, 6 months ago

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freudian_slip 8 years, 6 months ago

Here is me...quietly sitting back and watching enforcer dig herself deeper and deeper into the depths of the unknown (read: stupidville). I really would like to meet some of the posters face to face to see who they are and what they are like. I just can't believe some of the things people try to pass off on this site. I almost get the feeling that enforcer is posting dumb comments and sitting back and laughing at everyone getting riled up. But then again, that's probably just wishful thinking on my part. Can we ban stupidity from Lawrence? I have an SUV big enough to take enforcer and her fellow protestees out to the desert.

freudian_slip 8 years, 6 months ago

Did you know that 87% of Marines are certified psycho serial killers? Oh, excuse me folks, I was channeling enforcer for a moment.

freudian_slip 8 years, 6 months ago

enforcer - You can't pay enough taxes to compensate soldiers for what they do for us. They are probably some of the most under paid people in this country. How do you put a price on freedom and dying for YOU to be able to open your mouth and spew forth such drivel?

happyone 8 years, 6 months ago

harleycowboy thank you for your service!! There are some of us in Lawrence that really do appreciate what you do. Make it home safe and THANK YOU AGAIN!!

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

well misgiuded? maybe? or just ill informed? beats me no idea why enforcer is the way she is.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

no one has said she can not speak her mind it is that fact that has us all here. We are all speaking our minds, her right my right we just all say what we want argue back and forth. hence open forum, if you don't like go to a diffrent subject.

bankboy119 8 years, 6 months ago

By speaking her mind hasbeen you mean lying?

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

no idea about lying just stating her opinion, agree disagree what ever

Kelly Powell 8 years, 6 months ago

If encountering a sit in (or lie down in) protest like this try this little jewel.....squirt a small amount of fox or coyote scent(available and any hunting or trapping store) onto them.....any dog that gets close will take a whiz on them.......accidently spiiling a pound of cayenne pepper onto the side walk in front of them should work wonders to.

Fatty_McButterpants 8 years, 6 months ago

I agree - let's pull out our troops. Then, once they are safely out of the area, we drop a nuke and turn all that sand into the world's largest sheet of glass.

Frankly, since all these hippies are accusing us of "stealing Iraq's natural resources" we might as well go ahead and do it. At least then we might see a drop in prices at the pump!

Lepanto1571 8 years, 6 months ago

Posted by oldenough2haveseenitall (anonymous) on June 23, 2006 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Geez you 2 nit wits. Enforcer is a person who is not afraid to speak her mind. What's wrong with that? Oh I forgot. That is only okay as long as you think the "right" things. Like God Country and Apple pie."

Oldenough, I agree. Enforcer certainly is not afraid to speak her mind and she certainly has the right to say as she pleases.

However, she does not have any intrinsic right to be either correct or credible.

Mommeffort and powershopper also have rights oldenoughtospeakbeforeactuallythinking. They possess the right to tell enforcer she's full of $hit.

Now sit down, shut your pie hole and let these good folks argue and hack at one another(which is ALL their right); or actually add something of value to the conversation.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

really if we be stealing I have yet to see any profit how about the rest of you any big breaks at the pump? check in the mail? no mmmm were is all the money?

fletch 8 years, 6 months ago

Poor David Strano, he still thinks he's doing something relevant. Too bad the guy has a martyr complex.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

I would like to know were all these protesters are when there is so much sense less murders here in this country? out side the prison protesting the inhuman treatment of these people? holding banners that say I love you or he/she does not deserve to die? I think it is ridicolus that they protest against a supposed crime with no hard proof in iraq and not all the evil here in the USA.

acg 8 years, 6 months ago

I always wonder about jobs. I don't begrudge their right to protest, about whatever issue of the moment is bothering them enough to do something odd like smear tomato paste (gross) all over themselves and lay in a dirty floor. But don't they have jobs? I notice a lot of the protest groups in the Lawrence area are made up of some of the same people. If I told my boss I had to split so I could go protest the "it topic" he would laugh at me and tell me to get my ass back to my desk and do my work. There are a lot of things going on in this world that I would like to stand on a street corner and rage about but I have to help feed/clothe/house my family. What gives? If you protesters would go out and find steady, gainful employment, you won't have enough time to storm the wrong military office, yelling at some poor guy who's just doing his job about a war that he didn't start and can't really do anything about stopping.

Lepanto1571 8 years, 6 months ago

My solution you ask?

Arrest the really unpeaceful protesters who are in the process of actually protesting for peace.

I'm all for peaceful protesting mind you, so let the peaceful assemblers continue in their irrelevant birkenstock, greasy hair adolescence, until they tire and return to their cocktail parties to smack each other on the back and tell each other what a difference they're making in the world.

Now, throw those who are arrested (as you'll recall, the unpeaceful protesters who are actually protesting for peace) into a paddy wagon. This could be a contracted service (much cheaper; will actually cost the city only a few cases of beer) of southern boys in 4 x 4's, complete with confederate flags and axe handles. This ride to the proposed destination would be enough to alter the erring ways of the unpeaceful protester (who actually wants peace), and set him squarely upon the path of righteousness.

So after the ride with the contract help (and the subsequent first class tire iron a$$ kicking), we instruct the "paddy wagon" drivers to deliver the unpeaceful protester (who actually wants peace) to the local VFW for "safekeeping" until a judge can see and rule on the guilty parties.

This is effective justice. Taxpayers are spared the overhead of an ineffective over night stay in the slammer; and the recidivism rate of the offending will fall off to zero.

Thanks for your time. Talk amongst yourselves.

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

I'll add something of value:

Do you people really think it's necessary to bicker about this? Is it going to change anything on any meaningful scale?

Let me help you out: no. It's not. Unless you're insecure, then I guess it might if you score some local blog debate victory.

Lepanto1571 8 years, 6 months ago

Shelby,

"Do you people really think it's necessary to bicker about this? Is it going to change anything on any meaningful scale?"

May I ask why you are even here?

All you've done in offering your "valuable" commentary is succeed in joining us all in what you deem to be a meaningless venture.

Why even bother attempting to offer anything of "value" if there is no hope of it being "valuable?"

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

I have stepped away from the virtueless exercise in futility known as Political Debate In An Online Forum in order to help my fellow man by pointing out the futile, virtueless nature of P.D.I.A.O.F.

Go pet a cat. Then the world will at least be a slightly better place.

That's why I'm here.

Did I mention I'm better than all of you?

Lepanto1571 8 years, 6 months ago

Shelby,

Actually I agree, I hate political debate to.

I just happen loath protesters and other moonbats with greasy hair and smell like pooh who think they're better than us!

swampmusic 8 years, 6 months ago

Powershopper: I really only get on here to rail on Enforcer, she is an illiterate idiot, and she drinks Marion's kool-aid. However, I must compliment you on your use of "Good day" I thought only me and my cool friends used that term. Good for you.

Good day, Swampmusic

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

Yes, I'm sure. But 'why' you ask?

I'm not about to give away my secrets. That would mean you might approach me in terms of goodness.

KaraGourley 8 years, 6 months ago

"Did I mention I'm better than all of you?"

Shelby....... what did you write just the other day... hummm..

Posted on June 22 at 9:42 a.m.

Oh, I think it's great. I just used it as an opportunity to make fun of the general holier-than-thou attitude of many Lawrencians.

On KU to get $2M microscope

and you say that "Lawrencians" have a holier than thou attitude.....

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

the claws are very sharp today but enforcer is missing all the fun darn that work thing.

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

Q-Bert: At that point I was NOT better than all of you. People change.

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

I used to be a walking contraindication.

Confrontation 8 years, 6 months ago

Do you see what kind of trash we'll bring to town when we build the homeless mansion off of 31st Street?

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

Apologize not, my child. But remember, only the fool questions that which he haveth no hope of understandingeth.

Inferiority is a gift. The time to unwrap it is now.

acg 8 years, 6 months ago

You know, I used to love a good political debate, until it became us vs. them instead a free exchange of ideas. I don't mind a good heated debate once in a while but all of the recent name calling and hating between the people has gotten ridiculous. Liberals, conservative, democrats and republicans alike. We're all guilty and unless we stop screaming and raging at each other about the differences in our opinions we're not going to notice that all of the politicians are screwing us over and getting rich in the process.

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

I've met him a few times. He's a nice guy. A very, very strange nice guy.

swampmusic 8 years, 6 months ago

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BDitty 8 years, 6 months ago

While I agree in every human's right to protest that which they deem wrong, this is a little ridiculous. What exactly is this protest going to accomplish. I'm willing to bet that there is a 99.99% chance no one above local government will hear of this. I doubt it will make it into Bush's daily security briefing. This protest will have ZERO, ZILCH, NADA effect on this adminitration's or America's foreign policy or war strategy. It's time to face the music boys and girls. America is going nowhere! Should we have gone there in the first place... no. Should America mess in the affairs of other nations...no. But that's the bed that we have made. Not just Bush, but every President of the 20th century has had a hand in shaping that part of the world. It's time to realize that an American presence in the Middle East is something that will exist long after we are all done posting mindless garbage on small town newspaper websites.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

BDitty I bet your right but you know we are just small town folk with nothing to do.

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

Well, I'd object to the generalization that "the US should(n't) mess in the affairs of other nations."

That's ridiculous.

davisnin 8 years, 6 months ago

Does tomato paste cover up the smell of patchouli oil? or does it just work for mild scents like skunk?

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

ha ha ha now that would have left an impresion skunk good..

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

somehow i think this has gotten off track, what happened to the protesters? did we send them to lala land?

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

You claim to bend like a reed in the wind, and that this could be mistaken for obsequiousness. The implication, it seems, is that my superiority is an illusion, eclipsed by the true greatness that is the majesty of Powershopper.

Could it be? Am I blind to MY own inferiority?

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

oh give up already the topic is supposed to be about the protesters. I liked the the idea oldenoughtobeyour dad had you know about this land is our land just walk in and do what you want. Does anyone have the address of the protesters yet?

Shelby 8 years, 6 months ago

I liked the idea about the wolf piss.

ljlook 8 years, 6 months ago

FACT:

Fred Phelps is a life-long Democrat. This is indisputable.

Kornphlake 8 years, 6 months ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it considered treason to disrupt recruiting efforts during time of war?

Fatty_McButterpants 8 years, 6 months ago

Enforcer: You would not be imprisoned for shooting someone that held a gun to your child's head. YOu would be found innocent under the law since you would be acting in self-defense of your life OR the life of another. Know what you're talking about before using it as an example.

BDitty 8 years, 6 months ago

Shelby- I know we are all citizens of the world and all that, but would America let China or France or Canada, etc. tell us how to run the country. We wouldn't want someone else telling us how to treat our citizens, run our businesses, manage our land, raise our children. True, there are massive atrocities happening to humans world wide but the "police the world" attitude of the U.S. has gotten out of control. We refuse to accept the policies of other countries (ex. Kyoto Protocol) but we expect everyone to accept ours. Take Iran or N. Korea, what right does the U.S. have to say that these countries can't develop nuclear capabilities for fuel, weapons or otherwise. Why can we but no one else. Last time I checked all nations are sovereign. If the citizens of a country feel oppressed then let them rise up and fight, why must we do it for them.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

no you did but I liked his comments in his answer and was in a hurry this is why i did not quote. you are the one that did say it first. sorry to all who can not understand my brain power I guess no one can read minds afterall. Probably a good thing no one can :)

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

very much so especialy for all the men out there:) :) :)

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

and a few people who might just get on my nerves or your for that matter.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

esteemed you give to much credit, but I got it, and you are more than welcome to any and all your opinions at any time that is our right as americans. I do have a problem with soldier bashing, and in my opinion that is what happened, these boys have not even been charged formally just accused. so I say wait until all facts in the matter are in before you protet the guys with their asses on the line.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

well i think that much just screams thru with out doubt i only read what you post and there we are. no end to debate and no real solutions to life, kinda sucks but that is life.

reparmn37 8 years, 6 months ago

Please remember that we in the military WANT to defend our country. Lots of personnel here do not agree with what we do but we did agree on our own free will to protect and serve the president and the people of the united states. I have been in three wars, Viet Nam, Somolia, (excuse my spelling), and Iraq. God has seen fit to allow me to survive these wars, and I thank god every night. There is a lot of things we in the military do not wish to do but we do it anyway, even if it means giving up our lives for some protesters who think recruiting is going to stop the war. This I address directly to the protesters here in Lawrence, and everywhere, YOU HAVE THE POWER TO VOTE, LET YOUR REPRESENTIVE KNOW THAT IF SOMETHING IS NOT DONE, YOU PLAN TO VOTE HIM OUT. Very sweet and to the point. You all have a very strong opinion, use it aganist the party of your choice. I cannot say anything aganist the president, but you all can. Use your energy to topple the Washingtion D. C. area by the use of the pen! Many politicial position has been swayed by common people reminding the fat cats that we put them there and we can put them out. I will fight to my last breath to protect all of you, but use your best weapon you have: the pen or email to your republican or democrat reps. God bless you all.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

well in the end the war is still going on and the protesters are all out of jail, I for one am very proud of the men and women who serve even if they do not see combat. They at least are willing to die for what they believe is a duty and honor. And enforcer you are not the only one to have bad expeience with "the man" to include all, but one must try to move on. I respect the fact you do not believe in war of violence, and hope you respect those who support our soldiers. have a nice friday and go out and have fun, at least it is not 100 with 95% so enjoy it while it lasts.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

reparmen37 should you not be resting? I thank you for your time and your words are wise ones. But I would rather you take care of yourself and rest when you can you know how long it might be before you get to again. Take care of the kids and yourself may you all be safe. THANK YOU

reparmn37 8 years, 6 months ago

Thank youmommaeffortx2. I must do my job until I retire. After all, the military is all I know. Who will give a old man a job after he is worn out? Do not worry about me, I have avoided explosions, booby traps, and Viet Nam protesters who chased me trying to beat me up calling me a baby killer. I can handle it. Thanks from a worn out old fart.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

not so old in spirt if you still do active duty, I imagine behind a desk is not your thing. the things peace loving people do. If only people knew what your life is really like. Take care come home safe and soon.

Liberty 8 years, 6 months ago

Reparmn37,

If the President were to order you to confiscate the firearms from the people of the United States of America, would you violate the Constitution and follow his orders or defend the Constitution and the right of the people to bear arms and refuse the unconstitutional order?

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

I would like to play chess with bditty. He would do nothing to protect his king because, after all, it is my right to take him out.

reparmn37 8 years, 6 months ago

Liberty, I cannot answer that question due to regulations I must adhere to. I hate what is going on as the next person. But I swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States. That has to be your answer.

reparmn37 8 years, 6 months ago

It is broken record time. I am sorry, I cannot answer that question due to regulations. I can and will get into trouble if I say anything bad. I admire your hard work and the thoughts you are putting into this. Please I would be the first to stand up to vote if someone goes to our state reps and demand change on the ballot. You can make capitol hill very nervous ifthis energy was channeled in the right direction. thanks.

hottruckinmama 8 years, 6 months ago

observer most of the time you are right. but this one time i hope you are wrong. he sounds pretty sincere to me. but lord knows you never can tell for sure.

Fatty_McButterpants 8 years, 6 months ago

75x55: that's some funny stuff! I guess "enforcer" is proving his/her level of knowledge once again...

Liberty 8 years, 6 months ago

Thank you Reparmn37,

That is all I need to know from you. You have well said. I thank you very much for your straight answer. I fully support all of the soldiers and officers that would answer that question as you have.

larrybill 8 years, 6 months ago

I think if they want to protest war. Even if there has been wrong doing. We should take them over to these third world countries and let them help. Maybe one of them have the answer to fix all of the problems. Nobody can understand the amount of control someone has to have when you are told to do a job at any cost just get it done. Then while you are doing the job you have people spitting and throwing stones at you and wishing death on you.

there will always be casualties of war. A few wrongful deaths are going to happen. It is sad.

Why have I not seen these people protesting things that matter like say korea's nuke program or missile testing. Even the oil companies for stealing our money. But wait they would have to leave lawrence or the bounderies of our safe country that allows them to protest.

ISN'T THIS COUNTRY GREAT EVEN STUPID POTHEADS HAVE THINGS TO DO BESIDES SELL OUR KIDS DRUGS.

These people should grow up get a job and quit wasting the tax payers money and time!

hubcap 8 years, 6 months ago

It's those roundabouts that's to blame!

Susan Mangan 8 years, 6 months ago

A nice shot at each end with a taser would have made the arrest a lot quicker and saved some time, money, and energy.

Where are these pathetic "humanitarians" when some evil animal tortures a soldier to death? My guess is smoking pot somewhere and planning their next condiment attack.

But at least they are more comical than effective. The image of a bunch of ketchup covered hippies can't help but cause a chuckle.

Nullifidian 8 years, 6 months ago

"Protesting for the sake of protesting. I can't stand it. Send them over to Iraq to live under Saddam's regime for a few days and then they will shut the hell up."

In a time machine? Or do you propose that the alleged Saddam Hussein on trial is a ringer and all the news is being manipulated to cover up the fact that he's still in power? I'm trying to figure out how any of the protesters could be sent, today, to Hussein's regime.

Or perhaps are you referring to the halcyon days when Hussein was one of our major allies in the Middle East until he started annoying us with all sorts of threats and promises to cut us out of the oil trading as soon as the sanctions were off and starting to trade in Euros?

Those who say that we shouldn't withdraw seem to have never asked themselves if the U.S. military presence is actually there to do anything positive. I would argue not. It is there to ensure that Iraq becomes a compliant satellite state of the United States, and to do so they do not hesitate to act in ways which are contrary to the Iraqis' self-interest, and even act in murderous ways which were protested here.

And by the way, they did get the right offices, not only because it was a protest of all the killings that have come to light, but also because the Marines are an offshoot of the Navy and not, properly considered in a historical context, an independent branch of the military. Furthermore, among the recent murders done by U.S. soldiers are pointless and cruel murders of prisoners of war by Army soldiers while in Army custody. This was made clear in a communique which the LJW saw fit not to quote, and so everyone who said they got the wrong offices are not only speaking prematurely but also absurdly, since this war is being perpetrated by all branches of the military and therefore every military recruiter's office is a fair target.

"Better yet, put them in a simulation booth and show them what it would be like if we had never historically gone to war for our freedom and security."

One wonders where the threat to "our freedom and security" was going to come from with respect to Iraq, given that Iraq couldn't even project conventional force against its neighboring countries, thanks to its defeat by attrition in the Iran-Iraq War and then the aftereffects of the First Gulf War. Even if you were one of those die-hards who thinks that Iraq still has hidden WMDs, it doesn't take much to see that it's one thing to have them, and another to be able to deploy them against the U.S., and since Iraq couldn't even manage warfare with its neighbors, there could be no threat to the U.S.

If Iraq, in 2003, was a threat to U.S. security and freedom, then they've got to be tottering and ready to fall at the slightest attack, because that's all that could be mustered.

xenophonschild 8 years, 6 months ago

Interesting thread.

On one hand, many people have died so that others have the right to protest. That the Lawrence protesters chose to exercise that right is their decision.

I would prefer that men and women who have actually served in Iraq, or saw combat in other wars or actions, chose to protest. Their protest would carry more meaning, would illustrate what genuine protest about the war involves.

Sending Americans overseas to fight and die is not - or at least, should not be - a casual, knee-jerk foreign policy option. Were they able to undo the past and start fresh, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle and Rumsfeld would probably be much more hesitant about starting a war.

Linda Endicott 8 years, 6 months ago

Enforcer, Calm down. People are merely making fun of you because the man's name was Custer, not Custard. Unless you were deliberately trying to be sarcastic, in which case it didn't work.

Mommaeffortx2, I agree with a lot of the things you post on these boards, but I wanted to comment on this one, which you posted in reply to Enforcer,"I respect the fact you do not believe in war of violence, and hope you respect those who support our soldiers." What Enforcer actually said was, "I dislike war and death for no reason." Like it or not, there are many, many Americans who think we are in Iraq for the wrong reasons. I am one of them. Though I understand that sometimes war may be necessary, it should be the very, very last option used, only after all attempts at diplomacy have failed. War is never something that the U.S. should ever go into lightly. If we do, then we run the risk of becoming a nation like one of those others that people condemn because they are stubborn and fail to see anyone's point of view but their own.

All countries don't have to be clones of each other, and do things and believe in things the exact same way that we do.

Disliking war and not believing in it are two different things, and a war for no good reason, or a hidden one, is never a good thing. But just because Enforcer said he doesn't like war, doesn't mean he doesn't support the troops. A lot of people on these boards seem to be having trouble with this concept.

Though you may not agree with what these protestors did, where they did it, or how, I hope you respect their right to do so. It is one of those basic freedoms held dear by most Americans, and one of those freedoms that U.S. soldiers through history have died defending.

To me, the whole idea behind American ideals is that people have the right to disagree with our government, or the way in which it's being run. We have freedom of speech, and we should all be able to voice our opinions.

I don't recall reading anything in the article itself about these protestors claiming the civilians were murdered by the military, so all this talk about "innocent until proven guilty" is useless. They only stated that the civilians were "killed" by our military. Whether directly or indirectly, they were killed by the U.S. military. They may have been the victims of "collateral damage". They may have been out and out murdered. We don't know yet. But they were killed by our military, either way.

Who is a war hero and who is a war criminal is dependent on which side wins.

reparmn37 8 years, 6 months ago

Observer, I must assume you have never been in the military. If you have, then I suggest you think about your eleventh general order. All those who have been in the military know this order. I can see from your posts that you enjoy making judgements of people without having your facts straight. You keep trying to do your best out here, but you need to do what your name stands for...OBSERVE. observe = 11th general order. Good luck figuring it out. If you can.

Linda Endicott 8 years, 6 months ago

reparmn37, Acutally, this is what I found when I looked up "11th general order":

1st General Order To take charge of this post and all government property in view. 2nd General Order To walk my post in a military manner, keeping always on the alert and observing everything that takes place within sight or hearing. 3rd General Order To report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce. 4th General Order To repeat all calls from posts more distant from the guardhouse than my own. 5th General Order To quit my post only when properly relieved. 6th General Order To receive, obey and pass on to the sentry who relieves me all orders from the commanding officer, officer of the day, and officers and noncommissioned officers of the guard only. 7th General Order To talk to no one except in the line of duty. 8th General Order To give the alarm in case of fire or disorder. 9th General Order To call the corporal of the guard in any case not covered by instructions. 10th General Order To salute all officers and all colors and standards not cased. 11th General Order To be especially watchful at night, and during the time for challenging, to challenge all persons on or near my post and to allow no one to pass without proper authority.

It doesn't say anything about disagreeing with the president.

reparmn37 8 years, 6 months ago

its a play on his name...observer--to be especially watchful. that was my challange to him thats all. nothing else

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

enforcer no one should ever have to deal with death but it happens and war is just another way for it to happen. friendly fire or enemy death is death. and as i said i respect your opinion and feeling even if I do not agree 100%. I have never been in the milatary and am not broken hearted over that fact but I have seen hell. You must deal and move on and have nightmares and cry but you must always move forward and not stay stuck in a time and place, that will kill you in the end.

ziyou 8 years, 6 months ago

It's great to see that this protest has generated such interesting discussion--both inane and enlightened. This is more than we can say about our sorry excuse for a congress which has yielded most decision-making power to a power hungry executive.

Many of you who have voiced opposition to the protesters have done so under the garb of the "our soldiers gave you your freedom" argument. Yet, if this freedom cannot be used in illegal, transgressive, or confrontational ways then what is its use. Are we only allowed to protest the banal and the unimportant lest we offend the government that "granted" us our freedom?

Soldiers hardly understand this type of freedom as they are best only when taking orders.

Americans too have ceased to understand the word freedom. They are too comfortable in their bullet-proof twin towers of privilege and power to understand the beauty and DANGER of freedom. Freedom is not something that is acquired by governments or protected by police and soldiers. Freedom is raw.

Governments, and all governments, are the enemies of freedom. Hence the irony of arguing that we should be MORE obedient and respectful of our governments because they have given us our freedom.

As the discussion on this website proves: the defenders of government, violence and war always talk about freedom to either disguise their motives or assuage their own anxiety.

Alas, we are not fooled.

xenophonschild 8 years, 6 months ago

ziyou:

Excellent post. Called up a friend and made sure she reads it.

Maybe I'm simplistic or overly idealistic, but I don't believe the essence of our government is to be an enemy of freedom. That's one of the many things that's great about being an American. We've got mediocre people in office, and they do and represent medicre things, but, not too far under the surface, Americans are very aware of, and protective about, our freedom to protest . . . as we see fit.

brujablanco 8 years, 6 months ago

ziyou:

I agree this a great post. One would benefit by paying close attention to the 4th Circuit case which threatenes our Bill of Rights. Could this power hungry executive you speak of be fairly compared to King Geroge III?

The 4th Circuit seems to be saying that it has no role whatsoever in overseeing the administration's conduct of the war on terrorism . . . the beginning and end of which is left solely to the president's discretion.

Now, the full 4th Circuit bench has handed George W. Bush the crown that George Washington disdained. What if the Supreme Court agrees? The spirit of King George III will endure.

brujablanco 8 years, 6 months ago

posted by schenbooster:

Where were you at when the protesters were at the recruiting station? Guess you are all talk."

Out campaigning for liberals, and registering voters!

Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

mommaeffortx2 wrote: "mine is thank you you chicken ass mouth runner."

You go, girl. Mine is Air Force.

Christine Pennewell Davis 8 years, 6 months ago

I know im bad, and no puntiation either. oh well life goes on.

Linda Endicott 8 years, 6 months ago

I always thought that those freedoms which everyone has spoken of here so highly were for everyone, all American citizens, not just those in the military or those who have family members in the military.

I guess I was wrong. I guess all the past decades, soldiers were only dying and getting wounded in wars to protect freedoms for themselves and their families.

It seems that ordinary citizens, those who haven't served and don't have children that have served, don't count anymore. We must be the riff raff. I guess the Constitution and the Bill of Rights don't apply to us.

Dorothy Whitehawk Gaither 8 years, 6 months ago

Dave Strano and the others of the group stand up for what they believe in. Which is more than I can say for most people.
Dorothy Whitehawk Gaither

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