Archive for Thursday, June 22, 2006

Protesters removed from Army recruiting office

They linked arms and chanted the names of Iraqi war dead

June 22, 2006


Police removed seven protesters who walked into the U.S. Army recruiting office at 23rd and Louisiana streets and began reading off the names of Iraqi civilians killed at Haditha.

After the reading of each name the group would chant: "Killed by the U.S. military."

They read the list over and over and pounded on the office door of the recruiting station officer while he was on the telephone. Then police arrived.

When the protesters marched in they had linked arms and red substance smeared on their clothes. When police arrived about 1:05 p.m., the protesters dropped to the ground face down, arms linked, and continued reading the names from their list of Iraqi dead.

Police called for a prisoner transport vehicle, cleared a group of about 15 observers from the office and began removing one by one the seven protesters.

Dave Strano, a Lawrence anti-war activist, was the one reading the names.

The recruiting office has been an occasional target of protests since the Iraq War began.


just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 3 months ago

Yea, those 2500 Americans aren't really dead, and those 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians all would have died eventually, anyway, so get over it! Your grandchildren will be proud and grateful for the $trillions in debt that we've left them as a legacy.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years, 3 months ago

"Killed by the U.S. military."

SICKENING!! Killed by WAR. Killed by the nature of such conflicts. These things happen in every wer. EVERY army commits atrocities in war.

Don't blame those who serve because a HANDFUL of men messed up! Blame the individuals who did it, and maybe Saddam and G.W.B. for creating the conflict.

I've never understood those who want to crap on those who serve in our armed forces. If it weren't for our armed forces, we'd be serfs for a foreign nation. England would be speaking German, and we'd be speaking Japanese.

If anyone here thinks that "the U.S. military" should be blamed, I'd like to see you struggle to articulate those thoughts in written words. Go ahead, give it a whirl.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years, 3 months ago

They have a flex work schedule at the commune's "all-natural cigarette rolling paper" factory. They'll make up the time sometime after they make bail. Well, after they make bail and take a break to "smoke a bowl".

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years, 3 months ago

"Someone at the LJW own a BMW or Volvo?"

Not on what the World Co. pays.

chzypoof1 9 years, 3 months ago

Bozo, it's time to be quiet now. I agree with OldEnuf...2 members of my family have served in Iraq. They had nothing to do with the decision, they just served their country. Don't disrespect the people that provide you the freedom to post on this board!!!!

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

maybe the blood ref. beats me I thought consumers comment was funny

Shane Garrett 9 years, 3 months ago

Okay I'll say it. Lawrence should ban free speech. And free assembly unless otherwise permitted by the city. However, I agree taking ones frustrations out upon our troops is not cool.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

one must ask do these people have jobs? lives? anything that can help keep them busy besides protest? how do they live?

topflight 9 years, 3 months ago

Where was the damn WATER CANNON when you need it? I would like to volunteer to help operate it.

nonimbyks 9 years, 3 months ago

Damn, and I picked today to go to Ft Riley to buy a new uniform instead of sit at Panera and have coffee.

I was there, I never saw anyone killed or dead. Infact we were safer DRIVING on the roads than in camps. And the one soldier that did die on one of our missions was because she fell asleep behind the wheel and was chopped by an M88 blade.

Jamesaust 9 years, 3 months ago

"Police removed seven protesters who walked into the U.S. Army recruiting office at 23rd and Louisiana streets and began reading off the names of Iraqi civilians killed at Haditha."

I actually read this too quickly and thought that it ended: "reading off the names of American soldiers killed" but then I got to Haditha and had to stop and track back.

Of course, I could understand some pacifists who might demonstrate against war by invoking the name of soldiers slaughtered in the machine of war.

However, my query is: how did Iraqis get to Lawrence, Kansas, so that they could protest a few Iraqis killed in Haditha, Iraq? Granted, I'm not certain that they are Iraqis but then it hardly makes sense that Americans protesting war would not focus their demonstration on their fellow citizens first and foremost.

fletch 9 years, 3 months ago

Another misguided protest from your friends at Solidarity.

thomgreen 9 years, 3 months ago

Instead of "ROFL", wouldn't LOFC be more fitting (Laying On the Floor Chanting)?

I have to applaud these people to a degree. Why do we all have to be sheep just following the masses. They were a bit misdirected in their aim, but still, at least they are standing up for what they believe in. How many people in everyday life actually can say the same?

And like my mom always said, "if Johnny jumped off a bridge would you?". Just because other armies commit atrocities doesn't excuse our own army for doing it. We need to hold ourselves to a better standard. But with that being said, we also shouldn't convict these soldiers in the press before their hearings. Unfortunately for them, they are being judged by the soldiers that mistreated the prisoners in the prison over there. Guilt by association (which is probably flawed logic here).

Anyway, I fully support our troops, they are the most important physical foundation in this country when it comes to the protection of our freedoms. We need to get them home, safe and sound, as soon as possible. And then, in the future, take care of them as they deserve to be treated. These are men and women that put their lives on the line so that all of us can enjoy the freedom to argue with each other on these posts without worrying about disappearing for what we said.

Sorry, I'll step off my soapbox now.

Laura 9 years, 3 months ago

Thomgreen said, "They were a bit misdirected in their aim, but still, at least they are standing up for what they believe in. How many people in everyday life actually can say the same?"

In one sense, I agree, but I've known too many people who simply do this sort of thing to appear "edgy" and "radical." Do they want to help? They should send care packages to the soldiers. I don't see this kind of antic as standing up for what one believes so much as ridiculous grand-standing. I will bet the farm that these same "protestors" are telling all their friends about how they were strong-armed by The Man.

I hate the war but I hate these guys more. Makes me sick for all the people who are standing up to be counted.

Laura 9 years, 3 months ago

Okay, I can't shut up today. I used to carry on and bitch about the soldiers in Vietnam who killed babies and participated in this or that atrocity and while it still makes me sick to think of what people can do to one another, I HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THAT SITUATION, and furthermore, cannot fathom what it must have been like. We send these very young people to these awful places and expect them to carry on as if nothing out of the ordinary is happening. I'm not terribly eloquent today, I know, but this is so important. It's about a person's capacity to deal with the stress and isolation and never knowing if today is your last day on earth thanks to some kid with a bomb. I'm not saying the events at Haditha are okay; I'm saying they are not out of this world.

Laura 9 years, 3 months ago

Thanks, 75x55...I wasn't up to date on the Haditha situation, so didn't want to comment, but remembered thinking that no one really knew anything. It breaks my heart that people are so quick to criticize (with or without evidence) on the actions American soldiers, but no one has mentioned the most recent young men who were beheaded and mutilated.

monkeywrench1969 9 years, 3 months ago


Free speech on a public sidewalk...interference with people's right to choose a career inside the business. This group has done nothing to make any life better in Lawrence.

Hey next time you guys decide to do a Food not Banks/Bombs (Whatever the name is that day) can I get a choice between a ham sandwich or a tofu/vegan menu...

No becasue you want to push your views and lifestyle on those needing the food. What is more interesting is the people Strano and his people feed through the program is mostly their vegan Solidarity you get donations for this project and do you lie to those donating to get more money...where does the extra money go.

You guys lied about the NAAG being a leadership program for youths to gain money from area businesses...what else do you lie about...people do not want to be associated with liars

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years, 3 months ago

"We send these very young people to these awful places and expect them to carry on as if nothing out of the ordinary is happening."

EXACTLY. Man CAN kill, but man was never INTENDED to kill (God doesn't command us to avoid things that are good for us to do, He commands us to avoid things that go against the nature He is seeking to instill in us). When a "kid" has shot a bunch of people, he's not going to act like someone who is in a mentally/emotionally/spiritually healthy state of mind. The morality of fighting against "evil" is mixed up with the immorality of "killing". That's something far worse than simple confusion, that's a divided SOUL.

"ridiculous grand-standing"

This is another insightful comment, and it leads me to a conclusion: This is how people who are actually NOT contributing to society convince themselves that they are embroiled in a battle for the greater good. It's a form of SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS, and, at it's core COWARDLY. Cowardly in that they are not DOING something that could actually create CHANGE in the world. Did they ever think that a letter of encouragement sent to a soldier might help a soldier to keep their head in battle? Do they pray for these kids? Or, is this romantic protesting all that they can do?

bearded_gnome 9 years, 3 months ago

finding these in uniform guilty, before they're tried. that would be an example of failure to respect their rights. and, to respect our right, all of us, to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. for these little scruffies apparently the constitutional guarantees are a very light little thing to just step over or step on.
second, these scruffies have no concept of what it is like to fight a war, especially against a brutal enemy which uses children to scout and bomb and shoot, or uses children and women to hide behind while shooting at our troops. and, these scruffies are certainly just ignorant of history, and the principles of warfare which they protest in spewing their uninformed emotings.

third, the evidence that an atrocity occurred in Haditha is starting to crumble. the guy who did the photos has a very suspect past and his organization disowned him. now, some question the caliber of the rounds being apparently not of a type or casing shape that our troops would have had.

yes, this is simply the wackonut libs trying to make Iraq into Vietnam. but, we won't let them.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

war is hell and anyone who thinks it should be all roses needs to go check in to a mental ward some where and stay there.

cms 9 years, 3 months ago

We are laughing out loud thinking about our son's friend who actually works in the recruiting office and what his reaction might have been to the protestors. BTW, my son is in Iraq. Losers, just useless losers, those protestors.

monkeywrench1969 9 years, 3 months ago

These folks also use our system of restricting public access to classified documents to slant information to back their causes. This tibit was released today as part of a push to declasify info related to Iraq Read on:

Hundreds of chemical weapons found in Iraq: US intelligence Jun 22 1:56 AM US/Eastern Email this story

US-led coalition forces in Iraq have found some 500 chemical weapons since the March 2003 invasion, Republican lawmakers said, citing an intelligence report.

bankboy119 9 years, 3 months ago


I saw that earlier but I'm sure it's just more "lies" that Bush made up right? Or he planted them so our troops could find them?


As to the bridge question I always asked two questions, "Did he have a bungee cord?" and "What was at the bottom?"

fcraig 9 years, 3 months ago

Wow, all I have to say is that I expected more negatives. I am an active duty soldier here at Ft. Riley. I must say I am still proud to call Lawrence my home town. Being born & raised there, I have seen many things stated in the paper. Thank you to those who support us soldiers who take on the tasks given to us by the leaders we have. We have opinions, and think some things should be done another way, but we do follow orders.

Some loose their integrity and make a choice before thinking about the end consequences. When I was a cop, there were times I could have been rough on a guy picked up for child molestation allegations, but even those individuals have rights and need to be protected. Soldiers are human, we have normal lives, families, and problems just like every one else. Some break, some get help before making that fatal mistake.

Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 9 years, 3 months ago

It sounds like these losers would have been better off showing up at an unemployment office instead. Also, people who rattle off the claim that 100,000 Iraqis have been killed need to back it up with proof. It's a bogus claim. I'm against the war, but the clowns who stormed the recruiting office give a bad name to liberals.

Centrist 9 years, 3 months ago

So many assumptions, so little truth.

So let me get this right - every protester is a "dirty hippie", or a foreigner, is that right?

And they are all jobless?

How do you KNOW all this, all you "experts" on the board?

Were you all present at the time?

Did you see their I.D. cards or even their faces, for that matter?

Way to go, Ignorant America, way to go ...

I agree that it was a pointless stunt, and likely misdirected. But it is important to keep free speech alive.

Way to go, protesters - at least you have the balls to state your case, unlike all the keyboard jockeys here today. How hard are YOU working?

Sigmund 9 years, 3 months ago

Where were these protesters when Sadam and his sons murdered Iraqi citizens for decades by the millions? They don't care about Iraqi citizens, this is more about their hatred of George W. Bush than concern for civilians, Nor do they particularly care about American soldiers. Unlike Vietnam where many soldiers were involuntarily drafted the modern military is all voluntary.

And by the way it was not the hippies that ended Americas involvement in the Vietnam war, it was their middle class parents who didn't think sending their sons to southeast Asia nor the US reasons for being in that War were valid, and it was Richard M Nixon and Henry Kissinger who were responsible for getting the US out of Vietnam, not into it. But I digress.

Having said all of this I have to add that this is one of the reasons I love living in Lawrence! I get to see first hand why the left in this country continues to lose elections, it is out of ideas and has nothing left but lame theater protests to get noticed. Engage any of these clowns (no offense Bozo) in a discussion on what their solution is and eventually you will get around to, "I dont know, but this isnt the way". This is also true on the national level as well. Just look how the national Democrats are treating John Kerry's proposal to pull out by July 1, 2007. "Proposal, what proposal, and who is this John Kerry you speak of?". His plan was voted down 95-5 in the US Senate just recently.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

if the protesters want to do something for the civilians in Iraq maybe they should hop on a plane and really go do somthing. Craming into the recuters office is not doing anything but getting a record and put on the secret service list. not to metion losing out on their pay check, provided they are hourly not salary,

bugmenot 9 years, 3 months ago

Sigmund: Where do you want to attack next. Many Africian countries are in civil wars and have tyrant rulers who kill their citizens, North Korea maybe, maybe Iran. Maybe the US could just start attacking these countries one by one and make their problems our problems. Or maybe we could stay out of other countries business. I thought conservatives were for a smaller, less intrusive government. Not a waste $200 billion on a pointless war, ban gay marriage, ban violent video games, ban, ban, ban. Keep beating your bible and praying, God may get around to actually listening to a loon like you someday.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

well some of them might have a job just trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

satchel 9 years, 3 months ago

These people are a disgrace to America and I am ashamed to live in the same vicinity as they do!



Steve Jacob 9 years, 3 months ago

We can't win. How many Africans at war would be SAVED if our troops where there?

oldgranny 9 years, 3 months ago

Much as I dislike the president and this war I think this was a very misguided protest. I cannot and will not believe that our boys would do something like that on purpose.

Jay_Z 9 years, 3 months ago

Killed by the U.S. military? What a bunch of f*cking losers....get a job and do something useful.

fcraig 9 years, 3 months ago

" The Mujaheddin al-Shura Council, a collection of several insurgent groups including al-Qaida in Iraq, claimed in an Internet statement to have "slaughtered" the two soldiers, suggesting they were beheaded."

And US soldiers are to keep their heads after this happens to their friends, brothers? What would happen if US soldiers did this to a captive insurgent?

Jay_Z 9 years, 3 months ago

Right on fcraig. Keep up the good work dude.

usaschools 9 years, 3 months ago

The "where were the protesters when...." line of reasoning is poor, a paper tiger at best. It is like you assign these people thoughts they do not have and then attack them for the thoughts you gave them.

Whether I agree with them or not, I am certain that anyone who would do such a thing did so because of the dictates of their conscience. If more Americans actually acted on their conscience, this would be an even greater nation.

I am not suggesting anyone must agree with them or their actions. However, it is foolish to think that they are unreasonable people who don't care for our country or our troops. I think we are all grown up enough to understand that those who support peace also support our troops in their own way.

As for our military refraining from excessive violence against civilians when under the extreme, unimaginable pressure they face daily; it is my belief that our men and women in uniform are principled enough, strong enough, and professional enough to do the right things. To suggest otherwise, to excuse revenge killings because "stuff happens" in wartime, is to demean the character of our troops. They don't deserve that.

This war is not simple. None of us has all the answers. These protesters did what they thought was right. They took a principled stand. There is nothing wrong with that.

satchel 9 years, 3 months ago



I am steaming mad at what the LIEberals are doing to our brave men and women. THey lie by saying they support them. They DON'T. I am mad at Murtha and how they are putting our men and women in harms way.

GET THIS RIGHT FOR ONCE: I have a disdain, not for the people using their right for free speech, but in how what they say effects and hurts our military. We can't have AMericans calling our military 'murderers' a few days after two of our men get their heads cut off by the terrorists. It is irresponsible in a time of war, and like rubbing dirt into those dead soldiers wounds. Nevertheless they can say it, but SHOULD they say it? It is amazing to me that these supposid 'peace' activists are willing to cause tension and hurt and cause great discouragement among members of our military just to get THEIR opinion heard. It is selfish and not a very kind thing to do.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

not only their heads cut off but turtured and booby traped as well and these poor boys have to get sent home to a grieving family. Yes freedom of speech is our hard fought for right but people should have more respect for our service men.

satchel 9 years, 3 months ago

USA Schools,

Chanting out a list of dead Iraquis by our 'murdering' millitary while banging on the door with fake blood all over your clothes is not what I call a principled stand.

Were you educated in our public schools by chance?

anonimiss 9 years, 3 months ago

I just want to go out and yell at all of these protestors "LIARS", just like they did. We now know that Saddam did have WMDs, Bush never lied, and the whole base of the argument against the war is wrong. As for the killings at Haditha, the immediate higher-up okayed the killing as an unfortunate mistake while clearing a house. Your friends are killed in an explosion, you know there's terrorists around, you open up a door and see somebody there. Do you shoot or not?

I blame Bush for these protestors. Imagine what it would be like if we all knew shortly after the war started that we found over 500 shells filled with poisonous gas at various locations. The same gas that was used when 3 shells killed 5000 people. Sarin gas-doesn't deteriorate. Or if Bush talked in his speeches about what was really going on in Iraq instead of letting the media dismantle the truth. About killings of children getting candy from troops, of bombs planted at mosques, of buses of schoolchildren seperated by religion and massacred, of contractors being hanged on bridges, of beheadings, of soldiers being chopped up so badly that we couldn't even recognize them, placed in an area with booby traps and roadside bombs. Imagine if Bush would have brought up that the terrorists in Canada had three times the amount of fertilizer that was used in Oklahoma City. Even though Canada never was involved in any war, never spoke out against terrorism, never said anything about Islam, Al Qaeda, Iraq, or Afghanistan. Imagine if Bush would have told about the 400 some raids conducted with intelligence gathered at Zarqawi's body. Bush is solely to blame for his low public opinion. He lets people like these go on believing their lies and turning a blind eye when Iraqis kill.

fcraig 9 years, 3 months ago

Protesters, I hope you sleep well at night or day while my brothers, sisters and I stand upon that wall to keep you safe, abroad and here at home.

2003, sleeper cell planned to use chem. weapons in NYC subways......they know how, have whats needed, just need the go ahead from Laden or the new insurgent leader in Iraq. Protesters, go lay in wait for the next [possible chem. attack.

satchel 9 years, 3 months ago


You are right, but the libs aren't really about respect. Look at how they treated our vietnam vets when they came home. It was dispicable and they better not do the same to our heros in this war. How can they call this 'supporting our troops', but 'just against the war' when they call them murderers and harrass them?

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

no idea how alot of people do and say things they do. fcraig. ty.

satchel 9 years, 3 months ago

Anonimis, Great points.. I totally support Bush, but after finding this out and hearing in the past when they have found WMD's i always wondered why Bush always said he had faulty intelligence and the WMD's weren't there like we thought, when in fact they were! I am still waiting for an answer before I get too upset about it. Bush hasn't had a chance to respond.

However, I must say that the libs Hate Bush so much, and want power back that they are willing to put our military men and women on the altar. SO, even if Bush said there were WMD's they would have found a way to find something wrong with the war and would have still used the drive by media to further their lies.

Terry Jacobsen 9 years, 3 months ago

Principaled stand? You mean they laid on the ground and chose sides with the enemy instead of Americans. Pathethic.

Stop saying that whatever anyone wants to say is ok. I bet you don't support Fred Phelps freedom of speech. And rightfully so. He doesn't deserve to have a public platform on which to speak and neither do these losers. You can fight amongst each other as a family, but you NEVER take sides with the outsiders!

satchel 9 years, 3 months ago


Thanks for your service to our country and I thank you for your sacrifice. I have been able to make that known to others in the military as well, but I want to tell you thanks!

Terry Jacobsen 9 years, 3 months ago

Right on Satchel....

Also, lets not forget that the democrats read the same intelligence reports that the President did and they voted to authorize the war overwhelmingly.

If it weren't for the American people having common sense and forcing them to continue to fund this war, the liberals and democrats would have pulled the plug long ago.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

I did not mention anything about principaled stand just freedom of speech. Can not stand what phelps says or how he spreads his "words" but I do reconize his right to do so. That does not mean I support the protesters or him in any way and if I posted what I think should be done it would disapper and I would get arrested I am sure

Terry Jacobsen 9 years, 3 months ago

By the way FCraig...

You make me proud to be an American.

I'm behind you all the way!

wimcle 9 years, 3 months ago

At least they picked an appropriate place to protest, instead of at a heros funeral like some idiots 30miles west would do.

And as a veteran, I'm not offended by their message or thier timing. At least they are paying attention unlike a good chunk of the country.

Besides, its not like they have representation in washington :) Maybe they should dress up as christians and go on about 'thou shall not kill' that might get better play in DC these days!

bearded_gnome 9 years, 3 months ago

FCraig, I salute you, thank you, and please consider this an electronic handshake. I do appreciate your service.

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 3 months ago

We've got enough of our own dead and wounded to be upset about. Let them protest and be upset about theres in there own country.

fcraig 9 years, 3 months ago

wimcle - very true

I am no better than anyone by being in the service. Good law abiding people willing to help others for no personal gain makes me proud to be an American.

I know from being a cop for ten years, Phelps has every right to say what he feels to be right. Along with the skin heads, KKK, new members of the Black Panther Party. I grit my teeth and drive on, doing what the American people pay me to do.

satchel 9 years, 3 months ago


Exactly, and my question to them is SINCE they read the same intelligence, how can they say he lied?

satchel 9 years, 3 months ago

Arminius, Really? Great observation!

wimcle 9 years, 3 months ago

Disrespecting people? If you have problems with people calling soldiers 'baby killers' and 'murderers' grow a thicker skin.

High altitude bombing (for instance) is incredibly effective, but it also kills indicriminantly... mothers and children along with bad guys. I've never pulled the trigger on a child (or anyone) and calling me a baby killer may hurt, but we all are in the same green uniform, and the bodies are still there.

Jay_Z 9 years, 3 months ago

Wimcle, you're an idiot.

Yes I do have a problem with people calling our soldiers "baby killers" and "murderers". You act as though calling our soldiers those names is no big deal. Grow a thicker skin? These soldiers put their ass on the line for you and me, and you have no problem disrespecting them like that? Your kind never cease to amaze me.

Sorry your protest got broken up today.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

Jay_z he is a vet are you? so in fact you just called a vet an idiot so that puts you on the same field as the protesters.

Godot 9 years, 3 months ago

"I wonder if people do this sort of thing at the alQaeda recruiting office in Haditha?"

Apparently Al Qaeda has no problem recruiting right here in Lawrence. They don't even need a building; all they need is the 'net and the dazed and confused that KU attracts.

usaschools 9 years, 3 months ago

Satchel, I didn't say that their "principled stand" made sense to me, but I think you would be wrong to think that they do not believe that they are following their consciences - their principles. People can have different principles than you. Your disagreement doesn't make them unprincipled. Everyone decides these things for themselves. You have no claim to say that you are right and they are wrong. Have you spoken directly to any of them? I doubt it.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 3 months ago

6news reported the "red substance" was tomato paste.
tomato paste I think these upstanding citizens arrested have suffered a great injustice, by being arrested and being flayed here on the board... typo in ljw, they didn't want to be protesters, they were just trying hard to become pasta-testers...trying to join the army's 1st Bat. pasta-tester batallion. hope next time the ljw checks its facts better.

p.s. you suppose those tomatoes were killed humanely for that paste? hmmm?

usaschools 9 years, 3 months ago

Macon, Sometimes you make sense when you type your little poem like notes but not today they were not at home nor hiding away that is what you and I do when we type our anonymous comments but they took a stand and somehow I think that you partook of some tokes too since you are so sure of what they do

Godot 9 years, 3 months ago

"High altitude bombing (for instance) is incredibly effective, but it also kills indicriminantly... mothers and children along with bad guys. "

Throughout history, men have traditionally left their families behind to fight wars. Using women and children as shields is a particularly evil tactic of the Islamo-fascists. If they bring their families with them to fight a war; if they go home at night while in the middle of a battle, then they know they are putting their families at risk. Apparently they view their women and children as expendable.

true_patriot 9 years, 3 months ago

It may not have been the best choice to protest at that recruiting office (except for publicity purposes), because in an ultimate sense the people responsible for needlessly putting troops into an unwinnable situation for years on end are the people responsible for what happened at Haditha and Abu Ghraib and many other places. Disrespect the war, not the troops.

However, scanning the posts here, i notice some things have been left out in all the self-righteous chest-pounding. The protestors did not call names, spit, or otherwise denigrate the people working there. By reading names and saying "killed by the U.S. military" they are stating truth, whether it's a comfortable or in some eyes justifiable happenstance or not.

I also didn't see much discussion about that fact that this wasn't run-of-the-mill collateral damage. This was an entire family that was slowly and deliberately murdered in cold blood over the course of a couple hours, including children and elderly people, and then the entire event was swept under the rug. It's something Americans should stand up and denounce, in that we don't want to be the country that invades non-aggressing nations and slaughters their civilians, murdering entire families, men, women, and children. Some troops in some locations are in extremely difficult positions, because of bunch of extremely rich elitist white men who ducked serving their country sit in air-conditioned offices and play global board games with our poor and working class' lives.

I also notice that some of the posters in here that paint the protestors as having no lives and too much time on their hands are the same ones that have posted over and over spanning more than a seven-hour stretch.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

bearded_gnome thank you for the laugh that was a good one.

Jay_Z 9 years, 3 months ago

momma--If in fact that person actually is a vet it doesn't change my opinion. And your suggestion that my opinion puts me in the same field as the protesters holds no water....nice try though.

Jay_Z 9 years, 3 months ago

"true patriot"--I believe that incident is currently under investigation. Or are you with the Murtha crowd who wants to hang 'em before they get a fair trial and a chance to defend themselves? Don't these soldiers at least deserve that? YOU weren't there, so YOU don't know what really happened. Get a grip.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

nice try oh well what the hey what I meant was name calling weather it was idiot or baby killer. If he as a vet can take it so be it but to call him an idiot is just like calling him any thing else people have thrown at vets for decades.

true_patriot 9 years, 3 months ago

The freedom to murder women and children around the world who pose no threat to America is a freedom I'm willing to toss out the window, no matter how dear you hold it. Meanwhile, you support those who are tossing our Constitution out the window, while I hold those values dear. Our Constitution is, in fact, what every public official and every soldier and marine take an oath to defend.

I strongly recommend that you buy a plane ticket to Kuwait. From there you can get into Iraq and do what you seem to demand of those who stand up for their country here at home.

The evidence is overwhelming about what happened at Haditha, and keep in mind it's only part of a larger pattern. The only question about the Haditha incident at this point is whether there was a coverup or not.

true_patriot 9 years, 3 months ago


The evidence is overwhelming about that happened at Haditha, and keep in mind it's only part of a larger pattern (Abu Ghraib, the Sadr City garbage truck incident last year, the announcement of three murder charges which potentially carry the death sentence just this Monday). The only question about the Haditha incident at this point is whether there was a coverup or not.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

well that is funny because that was suggested about the protesters. But I do not think people are arguing about their right to protest. and the evidence is very lacking and one sided. Please if you have inside info let us in on it.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

patriot I am not saying people do not have a right to protest, protest the war if you wish but to protest the soldiers no that is very un patriotic and if you support that act then I do not see how you can call your self a patriot.

Jay_Z 9 years, 3 months ago

I'll second that....what "overwhelming" evidence is there that shows what happened at Haditha? Are you saying these guys don't deserve a trial? Sounds like you've already convicted them.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

The hard truth is people die... war is hell and there are mean and sadisic people in the world but I think the people in iraq just might be better off with us than saddam. Heck if you ask me he is the one that keeps having all the defence lawyers killed. I do not see any one protesting that or all the other murders that have been happening over there just supposed deaths caused by us marines. some how that just does not seem logical.


Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

ok just remember most people have no clue what war is like.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

oh no the secret is out we have crazy people here

bearded_gnome 9 years, 3 months ago

^such enlightened political discourse, above. wow.

then, "true patriot" probably calls himself/herself that because knowing self to be neither, neither true, or a patriot. a patriot would defend the presumption of innocence, and tell the truth.

true_patriot 9 years, 3 months ago

Momma: read my original post - my position on who to blame is crystal clear, and it's not the troops. And I think your cavalier attitude about murders that occur in this war ignores the fact that we're over there by choice. I can accept more severe collateral when it occurs in self-defense than I can when it all results from a hawkish decision made mostly by men who wriggled out of serving because their families are rich and powerful. Why do they always send the poor and working class to die while the same corporations these men presided over are raking in your tax dollars while Americans get blasted to bits, nightmarishly burned, and their families ripped apart?

Arminius: (yawn). More self-righteous chest-thumping. I always extend maximum respect to those who have served as a default. But here in the civilian world, you have to earn respect by taking responsibility for difficult decisions - you can't pass it up the chain. The fact that you are a former Marine doesn't make you any better than anybody else, if in fact you are what you say.

I know two former Marines that saw real combat that share my position on this war of choice and the immense disgrace atrocities like Abu Ghraib and the murders of the last year have heaped on America. Did you have to kill anyone? Did you get your leg blown off? If you want to participate in the politics of civilian life then you are on an equal level with everyone else, and calling people "Nazis" and "little pukes" for condemning the pattern of atrocity and murder (murder, not collateral damage, check this Monday's news for murder charges brought in a separate incident) committed in America's name in Iraq tells me not to invest much respect in you, even if you really did serve.

I notice you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the crux of the situation here: If and when men, women or children civilians are deliberately killed by America in a non self-defense situation, is that a value you support or condemn?

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

the fact and story are about protesting our solders not the war, lets all remember that. If it is proven that these marines are guilty then you caan debate all you want.I still say to protest our soldiers that are out on the front line with their buyys on the line is wrong. and to protest them is to demean them and all that have died in this was and all that came before.

thubbard76 9 years, 3 months ago

OK. Let the flaming commence.... Anyone care to explain to me exactly WHAT freedoms of mine that our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are defending. My free speech is intact, not due to this conflict. I can still vote, Saddam wasn't really interested in that. I can own a gun. I can plead the 5th. I can still do all the things that our Constution allows, with no bearing on what goes on in Iraq. We are imposing our will and system of beliefs on another, unwilling society...PERIOD. I can't wait to see how everyone reacts when another society comes to our soil to tell us how it's done. Oh...wait a minute...I guess that was Pearl Harbor. Oh yeah, and 9-11. Wait, I forgot the Bay of Pigs. And every other instance where another country has tried to impose its will on us. We are Christian Americans and you will be too....or else.

thubbard76 9 years, 3 months ago

Let me just add that I fully support our troops in protecting our rights and land. I DO NOT support the imperialization of the rest of the world. We gave McVeigh the chair for fighting for his "freedoms".

midwest_wingnut 9 years, 3 months ago

I know I'm late to the party, but I just wanted to say that to varying degrees I agree with true_patriot and I agree with usaschools and I agree with Arminius, and that makes my head spin.

Thubbard, I was wondering the same thing.

And before anyone tries to lump me in with the tomato paste brigade: Yes, I do consider myself a pacifist and I would consider myself an activist if I weren't so lazy. No, I don't think the protesters accomplished a damn thing besides making themselves look foolish and giving other pacificists and activists bad names.

kcwarpony 9 years, 3 months ago

Sorry to go off topic but...

"My guess is these same lowlifes think Peltier is innocent, even though he has had a trial in which overwhelming evidence actually was presented."

Arminius, As to the Peltier case, most of us who support him would only like to see him have a fair trial.

"As you know, I wrote the opinion in United States v. Peltier, 800 F.2d 772 (8th Cir. 1986), and I sat as a member of the court in an earlier appeal, United States v. Peltier, 731 F.2d 550 (8th Cir. 1984). In the case I authored, our court concluded:

"There is a possibility that the jury would have acquitted Leonard Peltier had the records and data improperly withheld from the defense been available to him in order to better exploit and reinforce the inconsistencies casting strong doubts upon the government's case..."

"My thoughts on these other aspects result from a very careful study of the records of the Peltier trial and the post-trial evidence and from a study of the record in the Robideaux-Butler trial before Judge McManus in Iowa, a trial which resulted in the acquittal of Robideaux and Butler."

"...the FBI used improper tactics in securing Peltier's extradition from Canada and in otherwise investigating and trying the Peltier case."

Gerald W. Heaney United States Senior Circuit Judge

true_patriot 9 years, 3 months ago

Arminius: "I'm guessing you were one of the moron's protesting what our Marines allegedly did in front of the Army recruiters office. You were at the wrong building, Einstein."

Why would I protest there when I in my first post I said it wasn't the best place to protest and that I said we should be blaming the rich white men in air-conditioned offices that used their families' wealth and power to get them out of serving their countries? Perhaps you should calm down and carefully read what people say before calling them "little pukes", "Nazis", and "morons". I accord those over there with their lives on the line every respect and blame those who put them there, not them. As my Marine friend (who was injured in combat in Viet Nam) says "Disrespect the war, not the troops." I do not, however, accord you that same respect. Why don't you join them over there if you feel so strongly about it? I don't know how old you are but I've seen people in their 50's killed on the long lists of those who've died in Iraq.

You once again avoided saying whether you support the deliberate slaughter of innocent civilian men, women and children when it happens in America's name.

Others: I also wonder how many in here trumpeting the rule of law are upset because the Bush administration is breaking the law every single day, day after day? The FISA law makes Bush's warrantless domestic spying program completely illegal. The penalty for each offense is five years in prison. Yet they are running many such programs - most of them we don't know much about. This is an assault on the very document that our Founding Fathers so carefully conceived of and that so many have died defending. The President is not above the rule of law, yet only a fraction of Americans have stood up to denounce this trampling of the checks and balances so clearly delineated in our Constitution.

"The rule of law" is a phrase phony patriots invoke to deny the reality of the situation as long as possible, then when the legal process completes and renders it useless as a rationalization, you never hear them use it again.

Nullifidian 9 years, 3 months ago

"Where was the damn WATER CANNON when you need it? I would like to volunteer to help operate it."

Inside the Army & Navy recruiting center? Are you proposing to give potential Naval recruits an early taste of life at sea?

Godot 9 years, 3 months ago

Don't worry, Bill Gates will soon be king of the world, and you will have nothing to worry about.

Godot 9 years, 3 months ago

newagehippiechick's remarks embody the tolerant, diversity-loving, non-biased, all-inclusive, rational, thoughtful, reserved and sensitive discourse we've all come to recognize as being "liberal-speak."

Godot 9 years, 3 months ago

Sorry you are so concerned about your son, I would be worried if mine were there now; your son "joined" the military; he was not forced to. He knew that he was signing up for potentially dangerous duty. I thank him for that, and respect his decision and his choice. We should all keep him in our thoughts and pray (to whoever you choose) for his safety and that he gets to return soon. We should all hope for our soldiers' success.

Godot 9 years, 3 months ago

My spouse (who does not use the computer) says to conservativeman (after having read the above several posts), "Any mother who has a son in harm's way should not be personally attacked for her opinions about the war; she is already sacrificing; respect her feelings; if you want to attack somebody, get your butt over to Iraq and shoot some M-F terrorists."

Godot 9 years, 3 months ago

Thanks, c-man. My spouse, who refuses to get an email address, and, therefore, cannot post on the JW, says, "That means nothing. That is hawgwarsh. I wouldn't write anything else about it, I would just say I disagree with you, that is a bunch of hawgwarsh. My brother, brother-in-law, my nephews, my step sons have served.

It is a hard thing for me to sit here and criticize; I had a lot of friends come back in pine boxes, and a lot came back screwed up; I had a football scholarship that kept me out of it; if I had gone, I would have come back in a pine box because I don't have the mentality to kill.

Just leave the mothers alone. They have suffered enough."

Godot 9 years, 3 months ago

newagehippiechick: from my spouse and me, there is no hate, just admiration. As my loving spouse says, " this is totally different from her first post. I don't know. Just tell her I hope she is fine."

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

enforcer you really are toughed in the head for some one that always is on the side of good and life you are just plain mean hearted. Your wording on many post contadict what you are saying. Please explain how someone so against something can wish death on some one else then go say how anti death penalty they are, some what confused.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

ok do not support the war but please try not to hurt people on purpose with your words, cruel is cruel, and to be so on purpose is just mean.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

one can be realistic with out making words hurtful that is all. I know how you feel on war and am ok with that, war is NEVER nice. People choice thi service to their country for many reasons and they all understand the risk that comes with it. They do not need you to be mean and say well you deserved it. Just saying if you word your view a little diffrent you might not get attacked so much and still get your point across. But there are those that will always attack. but they are stuck on another thread beating a dead horse. :0 just a question how old are you? really just a question I am 44 almost to 45 now I am depresed gotta go cry..

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

has nothing to do with nothing just wandering. Full, interesting. Just now I know not to call you young in the sense of like 20. You live here always? or is your full life from many diffrent cities? Kinda wandering if your kids know mine I am guessing you have a couple around my own kids age. Life can be funny, we may not see things the same and for all we know our kids could be best friend or at least hang out together, life.

Christine Pennewell Davis 9 years, 3 months ago

20 plus also mine are 26,23,21,18 almost, and get this 6 life really is funny alot in common and so much not as well.

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