Kansas schools low on teachers / LJWorld.com

Archive for Thursday, July 27, 2006

Many in Lawrence nearing retirement

July 27, 2006

Ever so slowly, Kansas schools are running out of teachers.

"I went to a career fair at Fort Hays State University last year, and there were more superintendents looking for teachers than there were teachers looking for jobs," said Ken Bockwinkle, principal at the junior and senior high school in Tribune, a small county-seat town 16 miles from the Colorado border.

It's not much different in Seneca, 12 miles south of the Nebraska border north and west of Topeka.

"I've been superintendent here for 11 years now, and I can honestly say this year has been the most challenging, especially in the area of special education," said Seneca school Supt. Brian Harris.

Science teachers, too, are scarce. "I have a science teacher who's about to retire in two or three years," Harris said. "When he goes, I'll be lucky to get one or two applications."

The shortage was the subject of a recent study by the Legislative Division of Post Audit.

The auditors found that while only one-half of a percent of the state's 34,000 teaching positions went unfilled last year, 5.4 percent were filled by teachers who either weren't licensed or were teaching subjects outside their expertise.

Other findings:

¢ About 16 percent of the state's teachers change jobs each year; roughly 9 percent leave teaching altogether, while the remaining 7 percent move from one school to another.

Teachers who move from one district to another tend to move from west to east.

¢ Almost one-third of the state's teachers leave the profession within their first three years on the job.

The national rate is about one-half.

¢ An ever-increasing number of teachers are nearing retirement age. Five years ago, 27 percent of the state's teachers were older than 50; today, it stands at 34 percent.

Almost one-fourth of the state's teachers will be eligible to retire in the next five years.

¢ Kansas' starting salaries rank sixth in the nation, but those for experienced teachers - those with master's degrees and 20 years of experience - rank 36th.

The study was requested by the state's 2010 Commission, an 11-member panel charged with recommending ways to improve Kansas schools.

"It pretty much said what we've known for the last four or five years," said Rep. Sue Storm, D-Overland Park, a member of both the commission and the House Education Committee.

"We're seeing a shortage now, and it's going to get worse," said Storm, who taught for 42 years before retiring this year.

Storm said she was alarmed to learn that 5.4 percent of the state's teachers are not certified.

"Let's put it this way - I wouldn't want to have a surgery performed by someone who wasn't certified," she said. "That's a stretch, I know, but, still, (teacher) certification is important."

In the coming months, the 2010 Commission is expected to come up with a plan for recruiting and retaining more teachers.

"The two things that I saw that I think can do the most good are to really get behind our mentorship programs and let individual schools take charge of professional development," said Rochelle Chronister, a commission member.

"If we could get that 30 percent figure - the number of teachers who leave in their first three years - down to 10 percent, it would make a big difference," said Chronister, a former state representative from Neodesha.

Lawrence public schools appear to be faring better than most in the state.

"The state percentage of teachers who are either not certified or teaching subjects outside their field is 5.4 percent; we're at 4 percent," said Mary Rodriguez, the Lawrence district's director of human resources.

Rodriguez said she expected to have four or five teaching positions - out of 890 - vacant this fall, all in special education.

The study, she said, underscored the importance of the district's mentoring programs.

"We have three full-time veteran teachers on release this year who will be going from building to building, working with new teachers who are new to the district," Rodriguez said. "And we have peer mentors in each building, working with teachers who are new to the districts."

Rodriguez noted 42 percent of the district's teachers are age 50 or older. The state average for teachers 50 and older is almost 34 percent.

"What that says, I think, is that once we get them here, they tend to stay," Rodriguez said.

Discussion

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27 July 2006
at 6:38 a.m.

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erichaar (Anonymous) says…

Let's sue for more teachers. (sarcasm)
27 July 2006
at 6:52 a.m.

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ljreader (Anonymous) says…

Low on teachers, or too many students?
27 July 2006
at 7:22 a.m.

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ksknowall (Anonymous) says…

If they are worried about retirees - change the system - I believe that a teacher/administrator can retire from a district in Kansas and collect the “retirement” and move to another state and teach - double dipping the system.

Stop this double dipping and teachers will have to stay (like the rest of the world) in their job instead of bouncing around to collect a unfair (to the rest of us) retirement.

The other way to fix this is to completely privatize schools - then teachers will get paid what they deserve - no tenure and the bad teacher will be fired and the good teachers get a good working environment - instead of the “babysitter syndrome” the teachers/schools are today.

BTW - Sue Storms comment about surgery - was more than a stretch - it was the normal outrageous silliness we get from those in the education system that believe those of us outside cannot make a decent decision about education. Shame on her!
27 July 2006
at 7:42 a.m.

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crazyks (Anonymous) says…

Teachers in Kansas can choose to be paid the same amount each month for all 12 months, even during the summer, Enforcer. Yes, it's the same rate of pay, but they will get a paycheck every month if they choose that.

To me the real kicker is that these teachers are required by the state and the districts to keep up on training, which means more college classes every year, which most do during the summer months when they aren't at work. And they have to pay for this out of their own pocket.

A lot of other jobs, if they require continuing training, as mine does, then the employer pays for that training, as mine does. Not so for teachers.
27 July 2006
at 7:53 a.m.

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JerkStore (Anonymous) says…

My wife is a professional who was burned out. She likes working with kids and thought about moving into teaching.

Kansas required her to go to 3 years of college in order to become certified. 3 years of college and the costs that come with it when she was willing to take a $50K pay cut to fill a job that the state says they are in dire need of filling. Makes sense.

They need to a way for professionals who want to give back to become certified more easily or they will forever be whining about this and shipping in more math teachers from the Philippines to teach in towns like Pratt.
27 July 2006
at 8:31 a.m.

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Larry (Anonymous) says…

Jerkstore,
I believe that Pitt. State has a program that allows individuals with an undergraduate degree to go right into the classroom and begin teaching while working on their certification. Pitt. State was offering this program through their metro campus near 95th and Quivera. However, I believe one requirement was that the individual has to begin teaching in a district that is short on teachers like KCK.

As for the shortage of teacher. I don't believe money is the real issue for so many young teachers leaving the profession. Teachers have always been underpaid. More of a problem is the lack of respect these young teachers receive from students and sometimes even parents. After all, there are many parents who know more about managing and instructing a classroom of 30 children than a young certified teacher. As I've stated before, I come from a family of teachers and have many friends who have spent a good part of their lives in the classroom. Next to money - there is one common theme. Respect and an appreciation for education. It seems that many parents don't understand that most decisions are made for the benefit of the entire classroom, not solely for their precious child. Why would a young teacher want to continue to work in an environment such as this when they can receive more respect elsewhere. Let these young teachers teach and allow the mentoring teachers to guide them without helicopter parents and disrespectful students and they'll stick around longer.
27 July 2006
at 8:50 a.m.

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aeroscout17 (Anonymous) says…

Larry, you hit it on the head. After teaching for eight years I quit because I was tired of putting up with parents miserable excuses and blames for their childrens behavior and failures. I have been yelled at numerous times for counting a kid tardy because he came to class after the bell had rung, for failing a kid who never turned in any homework, etc.

Couple this with the demands and requirements of useless programs like “no child left behind” and you start to understand why so many teachers are retiring; I know many that planned on teaching longer but they have gotten tired of the B.S. and so have retired.

I am much happier now, make much more money and work about half as hard as I did when I was teaching. I will never go back to the classroom. BTW, I also work with someone who started teaching the same time I did (different district) and made it one year longer before he quit for the same reasons. My wife made it for four years before she got tired of having no support from the overpaid administrators.

I may sound bitter, but i'm not. I was an award winning, recognized teacher, but the hard work and stress was not worth it.

27 July 2006
at 9:14 a.m.

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The_Original_Bob (Anonymous) says…

“Teachers have always been underpaid. More of a problem is the lack of respect these young teachers receive from students and sometimes even parents” Larry

Bingo! My wife is a teacher. Teachers didn't get into the profession to get rich. They leave because of parent's attitudes (which is usually as a result of some issue with the student).

Aeroscout - You sound exactly like my wife. Except she still teaches. Every March she starts looking for non-teaching jobs but always comes back. She must enjoy the pain. :)
27 July 2006
at 9:43 a.m.

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staff04 (Anonymous) says…

TOB-
I think they leave because of more than parents' attitudes…I think they leave because they are tired of constantly having the mission undermined by funding shortages, politically motivated school boards, and a lack of salary increase.

The article points it out very clearly, IMO. Rank 6th in opening salary and 36th in experienced salary.
27 July 2006
at 10:25 a.m.

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The_Original_Bob (Anonymous) says…

Staff - Yeah, you are right. I didn't mean that was the only reason they leave. I'd add in poor leadership by Administration as well.
27 July 2006
at 11:12 a.m.

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Confrontation (Anonymous) says…

Until there are higher standards for teachers, then I don't think there should be a pay increase. Several of my friends attended a private college and received their teaching certification. They are some of the least intelligent people who couldn't handle other majors. I'm not saying all teachers are like this!!! However, if the teacher graduates with a 2.00 GPA, or even a 3.5, why should they get paid more? Someone who couldn't excel in school shouldn't be teaching our kids. I know one guy who failed the certification test twice, but he's still teaching someone's kids! Make the standards higher, raise the pay, and the kids will all benefit and be able to compete internationally.
27 July 2006
at 11:53 a.m.

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Shardwurm (Anonymous) says…

One in twelve Kansans are teachers who fall under the KPERS program. That's around 8 percent of the total population of the State including babies and people in old-folks homes. The teacher lobby in this state is pretty strong.

Why do young teachers leave the profession? I don't know for sure, but at least one factor has to be the problem of advancement. They see the 50-year-old who does absolutely nothing and gets the same pay raise they do while they're busting their butts to make it.

Of course the teacher population is aging. I wouldn't be a young teacher now either simply because it's impossible to move ahead.

In any event one solution to this problem is simple to me: Reward good teachers with good pay raises and eliminate the bad teachers. Seems simple doesn't it? I'm betting the 1-in-12 Kansans who teach would stomp that into the ground. They certainly don't want to be held accountable for performance. Oh…good teachers would be all for it but the bad teachers (and the 'union') wouldn't hear of it.

What is interesting to me is that when I was in college we used to say: “Don't go into teaching to get rich.” We knew that taking that road was a vocation not a way to hit the big time. However, that has shifted now. Everyone thinks they should make $100,000 a year. It's all about salaries and benefits.

There are a lot of teachers who work hard and deserve every dime they can get. There are a larger number who don't meet expectations and cannot be discharged.

As soon as teachers are willing to accept salary increases based on performance and not on years of service (and that performance includes input from parents and students) I'll be happy to jump on the bandwagon and support them. Otherwise I'll call teaching what it appears to be for many: Welfare for the Educated.
27 July 2006
at 12:07 p.m.

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penguin (Anonymous) says…

Kansas has some of the highest standards for teacher certification in the country. In some states, you can walk in with a college degree and teach, but not in Kansas. There are excellerated programs for some professionals who think teaching might be for them. This is called the “Transition to Teaching” program (http://www.ksde.org/cert/TransitionTe…). However, it appears from this post that there is a great limit on their ability to fund this effort. Also there are programs to encourage teachers to stay in state through the Dane Hansen Foundation, but it is only for underserved Western Kansas education.

I am in a teaching program now after completing a degree at KU. I found out too late that I wanted to teach to get into the education program at KU. It is a program that is set up to be a 5 year program and I was informed that my degree would shave absolutely zero time I would need to spend at KU. The only aid for those already with degrees who want to enter teaching at KU is for those in math and science. I know Pitt State, FHSU, and ESU have more workable programs.

Most other programs require that an individual receive better than a 2.0 GPA. Most that I know of require at minimum a 2.75 and then higher in the actual education course work. Also there is testing and continuing education involved after the degree is completed. So I believe the issue of unqualified teachers is being addressed.

However, like many I did not go back to school to get a teaching degree to make money. Money is often not the issue, but support definetly is a big issue. Both in terms of classroom financial support and in the face of sometimes unruly parents. Also legislation like No Child Left Behind is really hurting the ability to recruit new teachers. I know that my intro to teaching course had probably 70 people in it. Out of those 70, I can bet only half will ever teach and of those half only a handful wanted to teach anything, but elementary education. Those classes are designed to scare people off and test their committment, but I could definetly see the impact toward the end of the semester.
27 July 2006
at 12:47 p.m.

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Godot (Anonymous) says…

Take the teacher shortage as a sign that is time to consolidate, and conduct more learning by “distance.”
Kansas should fully embrace virtual schooling and solve many of its educaton woes.
27 July 2006
at 1:01 p.m.

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conservative (Anonymous) says…

Shardwurm, I agree with much of what you said, but don't really believe that 8% of the population of kansas are teachers. I think from the article that I read yesterday 8% of the Kansas population is covered by KPERS, but that includes all state employees, not just teachers.

27 July 2006
at 1:15 p.m.

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fletch (Anonymous) says…

While at KU I signed up for a program that allowed current college students to serve as substitutes in smaller districts since I had a schedule that gave me Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday off. I subbed 8 times before I left the program. The first 3 times went great (subbed in Eudora all 3 of those times, btw). The next 5 times were all nightmares. Here's the list (I won't mention school districts out or politeness):
-I asked the school secretary where to park and she pointed me to a specific lot for teachers. I asked if I needed a temporary permit, and she said no. I came out to find my car towed. The secretary confirmed the tow truck had come in and asked first about the car and she forgot I was subbing. Cost me more than I made that day to get my car back.
-I had three students skip a class. I marked them absent only to have all three of their dad's call my private cell phone 3 days later to complain that marking them absent had sent them over their limit and they were now serving in school suspension. One threatened to drive to Lawrence and “teach me a lesson.”
-A school police officer came into my classroom and arrested a student on the spot for getting in a fight in the parking lot. I asked if they could please move into the hallway to do this, and the cop threatened to handcuff me.
-I was asked to simply show videos all day long (which I was fine with, it was a Friday), only to find out that the school only had 5 TV/VCR setups and that the only two left didn't work anymore.
-I was asked to sub for a high school US Government class and given a light framework of what to cover (differences between American political parties). So I decided to cover the points by letting the students express their views on each party while trying to keep the comments civil. For the most part, the students did a great job and resisted the urge to start throwing insults (imagine that). I did this to also prevent me from saying anything that might be considered partisan. At the end of the day, the principal asked to see me only to find that a student had complained I had insulted her faith when I asked her not to use the word “fag.” I explained that she had said it without any religious context and that I merely didn't want here using a word widely considered hateful in the classroom. I didn't lecture on the point or embarass her. I simply said “Please don't use that word in the classroom.” The principal threatened to call the program I was in and have me kicked out. When the program director called me the next day and said a review board was looking into it, I quit. Having grown adults debate whether or not I'm allowed to tell a 16 year old not to say “fag” in the classroom officially had crossed into the realm of absurdity.

On a positive note, I've substituted for a few schools down here in the Dallas area. Much better climate.
27 July 2006
at 1:19 p.m.

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SpeedRacer (Anonymous) says…

I have known 3 different people who have taken teaching jobs in middle and western Kansas who have quit after the first year. These areas are still stuck in the 19th century socially and mentally and still maintain the schoolmaster and schoolma'am attitudes, expecting these teachers to be more involved than they might be here. They also cannot handle the extremely conservative mindset.
27 July 2006
at 1:37 p.m.

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penguin (Anonymous) says…

yeah consolidation is ok for administration, but consolidating schools is dangerous. Consolidating schools in Western Kansas and other rural areas is the last nail in the coffin for some small communities. Many schools are already consolidating with students riding up to an hour or so to school.

If you move virtual classes in out to rural areas in large numbers the infrastructure will have to follow. My parents live 15 minutes outside Hays and there are only two internet options dialup that loads at about 1 page per hour or satelitte (which is expensive). Not to mention that it cheats these students out of all the benefits of high school.

However, SpeedRacer is right, all of the teachers in my summer classes who work in Middle and Western Kansas seem way more involved in the school than in the east. I have one person in my class who teaches Jr. and Sr. English, Journalism, Supervises the Yearbook, Speech and Drama program and Cheerleading program. This seems more the norm than anything in these areas of the State. The attitude is also the reason so many qualified teachers flee the area. I know the same could be said for my old high school.
27 July 2006
at 1:43 p.m.

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Godot (Anonymous) says…

“If you move virtual classes in out to rural areas in large numbers the infrastructure will have to follow. My parents live 15 minutes outside Hays and there are only two internet options dialup that loads at about 1 page per hour or satelitte (which is expensive). ”

We could pay $50 per month for satellite for every students' home and save that much on bussing.

“Not to mention that it cheats these students out of all the benefits of high school.”

Are you referring to peer pressure, parties, cliques, bullying, and opportunities for hooking up?
27 July 2006
at 1:48 p.m.

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Confrontation (Anonymous) says…

I'm not sure how a 2.75 GPA requirement is providing us with adequate teachers. Shouldn't teachers have to show a higher level of commitment to their own educations before we let them instruct our students? It's not like the teachers are taking chemical engineering courses (possibly excluding science teachers).
27 July 2006
at 1:50 p.m.

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staff04 (Anonymous) says…

High school is Satan's playpen…
27 July 2006
at 1:53 p.m.

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The_Original_Bob (Anonymous) says…

“Are you referring to peer pressure, parties, cliques, bullying, and opportunities for hooking up?”

I'd say, yeah. That's part of high school. Better they learn the realities of Life while they, for the most part, have their parents to help.
27 July 2006
at 1:54 p.m.

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penguin (Anonymous) says…

ya lets just have everyone take classes online. I have taken online college courses and they definetly are not as good. I can only imagine how bad the elementary, middle and high school classes are for students in the long run.

Wow sounds like someone who got bullied in high school. Just Kidding.

Better shelter the kids from the big bad world and all the mean kids at school.

I am sure the Eastern half of the State would be happy if all the Western and Central Kansas schools were shut down so they could save some dollars. However, virtual schools are just not the answer. Whether you want to accept it or not some of the small communities in Western Kansas are dependent upon the schools. From the teachers that add population to the pride they instill to the money they add on game nights. There are countless other benefits, but we better close them because there are some mean people out there.

27 July 2006
at 2:02 p.m.

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Godot (Anonymous) says…

Go ahead, pay for buildings that are half empty, without teachers, and force children to spend hours on buses, and sit in classes taught by teacher who resent being there.

Do not consider that there can be a way to incorporate distance learning with classroom learning to improve a child's learning experience.

Lets just keep on doing things the old way, because, after all, it is producing such good results.
27 July 2006
at 2:03 p.m.

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penguin (Anonymous) says…

well it depends too on what you go into on what courses you take. In middle and secondary ed you have to be content certified, but as the article mentions the lack of teachers has made upholding this impossible. I am not defending the low GPA, but it is an improvement. The funny thing is most of the programs require a 2.75 or higher, but the state only requires a 2.5 GPA (http://www.ksde.org/cert/becometeache…). So at least some of the colleges are trying to step it up.

Teachers now also have to achieve required scores on the PPST for entry to programs in the state.
27 July 2006
at 2:39 p.m.

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missmagoo (Anonymous) says…

i have friends who found it impossible to find a teaching job in this area right out of college, licensed. most bigger districts wanted prior teaching experience; it's small towns and small schools (Seneca, Tribune) that are experiencing a shortage. My buddies went on to get their masters hoping that would increase their chance of getting hired in a big district right out of school.
27 July 2006
at 2:56 p.m.

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staff04 (Anonymous) says…

“Lets just keep on doing things the old way, because, after all, it is producing such good results.”

I don't think anyone here is advocating for “the old way.” I think people acknowledge that the system has problems, but they also acknowledge that that isn't reason to destroy the system by robbing it of resources.
27 July 2006
at 3:05 p.m.

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staff04 (Anonymous) says…

Or at least I hope so…

I sometimes forget where I'm from…
27 July 2006
at 3:33 p.m.

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teachks (Anonymous) says…

As a young teacher myself, I have often contemplated quitting. However, the reason for doing so has never been about the pay. I am about to start my 3rd year as a high school math teacher and I find that my biggest problems are with administrators and with disrespectful parents and students. I know that I am not much older than many of my students, but I can remember that if I had ever disrespected teachers the way some of my students have disrespected teachers in my building, I would have been in a lot of trouble at home.

On another note, I started working on my Master's degree last spring and it is costing more per year to complete that than my pay raise will be. I have friends who are not teachers and already make more money than me and don't have to get their Master's for that to happen. Again, I am not in it for the money. I could find plenty of other jobs with my math skills that would pay a lot more, but the truth is, I just love working with young people.
27 July 2006
at 3:38 p.m.

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davey (Anonymous) says…

After reading through the comments and being in education for a number of years it is easy to understand why we are on the brink of experiencing a teacher shortage. Teachers have become an easy target for frustrated parents. These are parents who for the majority of their child's lives did not do their job of parenting. Now when their children go to school and come home complaining the parent can take a stand and make the teacher the target. The teacher has little or no recourse when dealing with these 'parent wannabes'. Why would anybody in their right mind go to college for 4 years to be a teacher, have continuing education requirements, be paid less than others who also have a college education, and then be ridiculed, disrespected, and targeted by students and parents. In addition, some in this forum have communicated a sense of disdain for teachers because of academic requirements to become a teacher. If it was that easy to become a teacher there wouldn't be an impending shortage.
The only way to fix this is to make teaching an attractive, respectable career with compensation to keep good teachers. I think merit pay is one way this can be accomplished. It will attract more to the profession because of the higher pay and 'push' those teachers out who are not interested in truly helping students. Isn't this how it works in the private sector? Those who perform are rewarded and those who do not are released.
Parents also need to step up and take care of the parenting and let schools deal with teaching.
27 July 2006
at 3:57 p.m.

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The_Original_Bob (Anonymous) says…

Teach ks - Good post. My wife made the mistake at her first job of having her phone number listed in the phone book in a small town. Nothing like maniac parents calling her up at 10 at night. And the best part, it was usually the parents that never showed up at parent/teacher conferences.

27 July 2006
at 4:07 p.m.

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teachks (Anonymous) says…

Davey-I agree with you…it's not easy to become a teacher, depending on the institution you are attending. I attended Emporia State University, one of the most prestigious teaching schools in the nation. I graduated with 125 hours…43 hours were math classes and 42 hours were education classes. Trust me, these classes were not easy. I also had to take 3 different exams to complete my degree. Perhaps ESU has higher standards than some universities…I don't know.

Bob-thanks! I have to bribe my kids with extra credit to get their parents to come to parent/teacher conferences. Sad, but that is the only way that I can ever come into contact with some parents.
27 July 2006
at 4:14 p.m.

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Godot (Anonymous) says…

davey, I appreciate what you say, but the problem appears to be more than pay. Kansas ranks 6th in the US in starting pay for teachers, when, statewide, Kansas ranks toward the bottom in the nation for average annual income. That means Kansas schools are stretching the payscale to try to attract new teachers.

The problem appears to be working conditions.

You see it right here in this blog; young teachers start out in small schools in hopes of getting the experience they need to go on to greener pastures.

Kansas has small schools, lots of them in isolated, small towns. And most teachers don't want to be there for very understandable reasons.

It is time to find a way to consolidate the many, many small schools into a few large ones with the resources to attract, and keep, good teachers, and to expand the use of virtual classrooms to enhance the work experienice for teachers, and to expand the options for learning for children, especially those in the sparsely populated counties.

By the way, my daughter-in-law teaches in Blue Valley, and makes really good money. She entered teaching for the love of it. After eight years of teaching, she dreads the end of summer vacation and wishes she could retire at the ripe, old age of 30.
27 July 2006
at 4:33 p.m.

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pmk215 (Anonymous) says…

A teacher shortage? Apparently not in Johnson County. I received this article from a friend. After reading this and watching KCTV5's broadcast on a teacher shortage I figured they weren't talking about Johnson County. I have lived here since January 2004 and am still subbing. I have almost 6 years exp. from NC, a great resume and references. Here some of the districts seem to only hire new teachers because they do not have to pay them as much.
It's very disappointing. NC has been experiencing a huge teacher shortage for many years and I had my choice of jobs. Most of the districts offer signing bonuses and end of the year bonuses to retain teachers.
It's amazing the difference in areas.
27 July 2006
at 4:38 p.m.

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sinkorswim (Anonymous) says…

“The only way to fix this is to make teaching an attractive, respectable career with compensation to keep good teachers. I think merit pay is one way this can be accomplished. It will attract more to the profession because of the higher pay and 'push' those teachers out who are not interested in truly helping students. Isn't this how it works in the private sector? Those who perform are rewarded and those who do not are released.
Parents also need to step up and take care of the parenting and let schools deal with teaching.”

I'm about to start my fifteenth year of teaching and can only say “AMEN!”
27 July 2006
at 4:42 p.m.

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davey (Anonymous) says…

I agree the problem is more than pay. However, when Kansas ranks 6th for new teachers pay and 36th for experienced teachers it leaves little incentive for those to stay in teaching. After a few years of young teachers working hard it doesn't take long for them to look a little farther into their future and realize where they will be in 10 - 15 or even 20 years. It is idealistic to think that a teacher will want to continue to be a part of education based purely on moral principle. We must give teachers something to strive toward and encourage ambition. Through merit pay that gives teachers incentives to engage students and raise performance we can hope to keep teachers themselves engaged in the educational process.
I do agree that some degree of consolidation needs to be implemented. However, this will not make new teachers want to stay in smaller communities. It will however, increase commute times and perhaps make it less desireable to teach in a rural setting. Strong salaries in these communities will encourage teachers to remain.
Virtual school programs are great but I do not think they solve all problems. They can only be successful if the parents are committed to their child's education. Otherwise a virtual school option often becomes the first step out the school doors on the way to becoming a drop-out.
27 July 2006
at 5:47 p.m.

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fletch (Anonymous) says…

Let's all face it, if you went to college for 4 years to teach high school math or science, would you really want to move out to some of these districts where you're not allowed to mention globally accepted fundamentals of your field because the local school board or principle still believes the world is flat and was created 4000 years ago? Probably not. You'd probably want to teach in a decent metro-area school district anywhere else in this country where you are actually allowed to teach your seubject, and get paid more for doing it.

When your state education agencies spend this much time being hostile toward science education, you're going to stop getting qualified teachers.
27 July 2006
at 5:52 p.m.

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Shardwurm (Anonymous) says…

“Shardwurm, I agree with much of what you said, but don't really believe that 8% of the population of kansas are teachers. I think from the article that I read yesterday 8% of the Kansas population is covered by KPERS, but that includes all state employees, not just teachers.”

I stand corrected. I re-checked my facts and you are indeed correct. Thanks Conservative.
27 July 2006
at 6:23 p.m.

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penguin (Anonymous) says…

pmk215 you are right on the hiring of teachers. I know a guy who has been sub for many years and an assistant wrestling coach as well. However, last year the school last year hired 8 or so teachers straight out of school.

I have heard others say the same thing all over the state…and it does for lack of a better term, suck.

I know a great many students who are also going to school in Kansas and then leaving for other states to teach. These include both students from Kansas and Out of State students. I am sure the bonuses you mention are a critical reason. Also with tuition at esu, fhsu, and the other Regional Universities so affordable its makes economic sense.

27 July 2006
at 6:56 p.m.

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Confrontation (Anonymous) says…

“In addition, some in this forum have communicated a sense of disdain for teachers because of academic requirements to become a teacher. If it was that easy to become a teacher there wouldn't be an impending shortage.”

No, it's the crappy pay and psycho parents that create the shortage. I know several struggling high school athletes who easily made it through an education program. Other non-athletes I know barely scraped through at a private college and still were certified. I understand that some colleges have higher standards, but how can so many athletes with the brains of 6 year olds end up coaching AND teaching in high schools? Scary.
27 July 2006
at 7:19 p.m.

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davey (Anonymous) says…

I also know several struggling high school students (and athletes) who graduated from college with…psychology, communication, philosophy, history, sociology, business, social work……on and on and on. The point is they earned a college degree and spent 4 years (at least) studying their subjects.
I agree, “It's the crappy pay and psycho parents that create the shortage.”
However, if you are going to increase academic requirements to become a teacher to equal those of doctors……then you will HAVE to increase pay or the shortages will be even worse.
27 July 2006
at 7:49 p.m.

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Godot (Anonymous) says…

“I do agree that some degree of consolidation needs to be implemented. However, this will not make new teachers want to stay in smaller communities. It will however, increase commute times and perhaps make it less desireable to teach in a rural setting. Strong salaries in these communities will encourage teachers to remain.”

How much money would it take to keep a teacher in Seneca for 20 years?
27 July 2006
at 7:51 p.m.

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davey (Anonymous) says…

Depends on how many teachers you want in the community.
27 July 2006
at 7:57 p.m.

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Larry (Anonymous) says…

Fletch - Amen. I have a friend that used to say (very often) “the teachers are afraid of the principals, the principals are afraid of the sups. the sups are afraid of the Board of Education, the BOE are afraid of the parents, the parents are afraid of the students and the students are afraid of NO ONE.” Your point is exactly the point I was trying to make. The students story seems to be the one that is accepted as fact rather than the teachers.

How many of you are old enough to remember parents like mine that said - “you get in trouble at school, I don't want to hear why - I want to know how many swats you got, cause you're getting double the number of swats from your Dad.” You didn't see me in the office or having trouble with a teacher. NO WAY!
27 July 2006
at 7:58 p.m.

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Larry (Anonymous) says…

Did I actually read a response above that someone was complaining about kids saying “yes sir” “yes Maaam'?

Geezzz - I think that is great and the way it should be.
27 July 2006
at 8:06 p.m.

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Godot (Anonymous) says…

Offer a buy out to the teachers over 50. If they are at least 50 and have at least 25 years of service, let them retire with full benefits now, with an offset for socical security at 62.

That will give young teachers a shot at advancement.
27 July 2006
at 8:51 p.m.

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as_I_live_and_breathe (Anonymous) says…

too bad we can't make education a sport. put it on tv and sex it up a little.

27 July 2006
at 8:51 p.m.

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pinkshoes (Anonymous) says…

I used to teach and there were lots of things I loved about it. And lots of things that were frustrating. But the pay—not so good. I spent around $4000 to get my master's degree and got a $600 per year pay raise.

I think that 7-10 years is where a lot of teachers reach their limit. They may be burnt out or they may just decide once they are in their 30's, married, & raising kids that $35,000 per year isn't going to get them anywhere. By then, they see their friends in other fields pulling down a good salary, living in nicer houses, and often not working as hard.

Teaching is very gratifying and I think Lawrence has some very gifted individuals in the classroom. Let's just figure out what it takes to make them feel valued and well-compensated.
27 July 2006
at 9:23 p.m.

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garrenfamily (Anonymous) says…

At the beginning of this blog someone mentioned double dipping. My father is retiring from teaching in KS this year with his “85” years. From the way I understand him, he could stay in the same school district and get paid $15000 to do the same thing he did last year for $25000 more, or….he could simply move to another school district within the state and get paid his normal salary. He lives in SW KS, so this would be easy for him to do if he chose to do so. However, he is more than burned out on administration (mainly those that are 25 years younger than him) telling him how to do his job after he has been very successful at doing it for 35 years!!!!!!! My parents are both teachers - had four kids and raised us in a nice home. We never had cars or extras, but we were well taken care of. My parents both did summer jobs and cleaned the local bank year round in addition to being coaches, sponsors, and whatever else the school required them to do. Pinkshoes is right, it is a gratifying profession. Most teachers can make it work financially, but making them feel valued and respected is my biggest concern when you have ungrateful administration and parents standing in the way.
27 July 2006
at 10:12 p.m.

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teachks (Anonymous) says…

Teaching is a very gratifying profession, unfortunately, there are a lot of people who do not view it that way. Instead, they view the profession in a negative light. I often have friends that say that I would get paid more if I worked all year round, during holidays, and on weekends. My response to them is that I do, it is just not recognized as work because I am not at school doing it. I have spent several days this summer up at school and at home working on stuff for the upcoming school year. I don't get paid anymore for that time that I put in. However, if I worked in the private sector, I might have the opportunity for some overtime. There is no such thing as overtime in education. There is no room for negotiation in that aspect. However, I put in my time for the students and not for the pay. I know there are teachers out there that don't do what I do outside of school hours, but there are teachers that really do care and are willing to put in that extra time without pay.
27 July 2006
at 10:53 p.m.

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pinkshoes (Anonymous) says…

garrenfamily, hats off to your parents for working so hard to provide a good life for you and your siblings. I will say, it sounds like they had to do a lot of extra work besides their classroom positions to provide for you all, which I feel is a shame. I know plenty of teachers who work extra jobs so that they have a little extra for vacation money or to sock away for their kids' educations. *Note to our legislators—when you see your kid's teacher ringing up your purchases each summer at Wal-Mart, she's not doing it because she thinks she looks hot in the smock.*

But I hear you, the respect and value thing is a big deal. Sometimes parents and students have more power than is good for anyone. Bureaucracy can grind the best of us down. Longtime teachers aren't always appreciated for their wisdom and years of knowing what works.

Having said all that, I'm fortunate that every day I was teaching I had at least one great experience that reminded me “THAT is why I'm a teacher.”
27 July 2006
at 11:49 p.m.

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Shardwurm (Anonymous) says…

You know what? I'm not a teacher and I work extra jobs to get money too. Yes I'm a professional with a college degree.

So do you want to give me some more money too?
28 July 2006
at 1:11 a.m.

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pinkshoes (Anonymous) says…

Oops, I almost added in my earlier post that I know that teachers are not the only college educated professionals who don't make a killing. I should have included it. Sorry, I was just writing about teachers because that is what I know.
2 August 2006
at 9:06 p.m.

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monicalewinsky (Anonymous) says…

This article is missing some facts. MANY teachers are leaving USD 497 every year—increasing wildly. The administration doesn't want you to know that. They still hold the ancient view that “everybody” wants to live in Lawrence, therefore they don't have to pay very well. Besides many retirees on the increase, good people are fleeing to districts who pay much better and have infinitely better fringe benefits. The reason teachers retire as soon as they possibly can from this district is because of low pay and low morale as a result of our condescending central administration. Treat and pay teachers as professionals, or lose them.