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Archive for Thursday, July 6, 2006

Cultures clash in Democratic primary

Challenger for Education Board minority seat supports majority

July 6, 2006

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— In 2002, Iris Van Meter ran below the political radar in the Republican Party primary to unseat an incumbent member of the Kansas State Board of Education in southeast Kansas.

She then became a key vote in the 6-4 majority on the state education board that has attacked evolution, changed the availability of sex education and hired a critic of public schools as education commissioner.

While much attention has been placed this year on trying to upset that majority in the upcoming Republican Party primary, a challenge in the Democratic Party primary could thwart those efforts.

Jesse Hall is running in the Aug. 1 Democratic Party primary against incumbent Janet Waugh for the state education board's District 1 seat.

Waugh is a member of the four-vote minority on the board, while Hall's political positions stand firmly with the six-member majority.

Both candidates are from Kansas City, Kan.

The district also extends into eastern Douglas County and northeast Lawrence.

The winner of the Aug. 1 Democratic primary likely will gain a four-year term because there is no Republican candidate or minor party candidate lined up for the November general election.

Waugh said she faces a stealth candidate in Hall, who never has held public office.

Hall hasn't appeared at any candidate forums and is backed by individuals associated with the religious right, Waugh said.

"I have attended quite a few meetings, and I haven't seen him yet," Waugh said.

Celtie Johnson of Overland Park, an evolution opponent, recently circulated a letter urging people to contribute to Hall and other candidates aligned against evolution in the five state education board races.

"If we can win all five seats, creating a 7-3 conservative majority in spite of all the media and academia against us, then the liberals and evolutionists would learn the undeniable message that they can no longer get away with cramming evolutionism down ours and our neighbors kids' throats!" she wrote.

Michael Peterson, chairman of the Wyandotte County Democratic Party, said Hall was being used by the "radical right."

"I assume he is being recruited by outside influences," said Peterson, who is also a state legislator. "For some reason he has affiliated himself with the radical right."

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Hall supports majority

But Hall, an employee with the Kansas City, Mo., school district, said he didn't know what all the fuss was about.

He said he grew tired of complaining about the education system and decided to run for office and try to effect change.

He said he supported the science standards adopted by the 6-4 majority that criticize evolution.

"The way it was set up, evolution was the only thing that could be taught. That doesn't allow a child to step outside the box so that they themselves learn how to think," Hall said.

Opponents of the new science standards say they bring intelligent design - the theory that a master designer formed life - into science class.

Hall also supports changes to sex education put in place by the board's 6-4 majority.

Most states and school districts, including Lawrence, have an opt-out policy that allows parents to sign a form if they want their children removed from sex education class. The state education board reversed this process, requiring school districts to receive parental permission for students to remain in sex education classes. This so-called "opt-in" policy means some students won't get the class simply because their parents are inattentive to their school needs, according to health care experts.

Back to basics

Hall said he works with students at risk of failing as a school interventionist and parent liaison for Central Middle School in Kansas City, Mo. Kansas needs to try different ways to reach at-risk students to reduce the dropout rate, he said.

He said schools need to focus on teaching the basics: reading, writing and math.

And while much of the debate on the state education board has revolved around evolution, sex education and the hiring of Bob Corkins as education commissioner, Hall said voters he spoke with want the board to move on to other issues.

Hall said he hadn't attended any political forums yet and mostly had been campaigning door to door.

Comments

xenophonschild 8 years, 2 months ago

Evil is as evil does. This nonsense about "letting kids step outside the box and learn to think for themselves" is a lie.

What exactly is it that Hall and lying troglodytes like him want kids to learn . . . creationsim/intelligent design.

Enough. Evolution is fact, not theory, and it is what should be taught in public schools. Religious fruitcakes need to leave schools alone, and wait for their dead Galilean to return on their own dime.

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bondmen 8 years, 2 months ago

Aahh how the Church of Darwin gets its collective panties in a bunch any time an alternative view of origins dares raise its head above the mire and muck of evolution's pond scummy fairy tales.

You are losing the battle and the proof is how the hegemonic power of the state and court is needed to maintain your view's dominance amid your cockaphonynic hackles of 'evolution is fact'!

Were the proof evident to the unbiased and undecided your side would be growing in strength but alas it is an empty basket you show us and demand we believe.

Open your eyes friends and admit that life is not simple but very complex; so much so it dawns on the open mind it could not possible be a product of time and chance but is the product of a Creator with intelligence we can only begin to know - if we wish.

Complex life requires information (DNA) science does not fully understand and yet some among us claim this is the result of random mutation and natural selection. Seems obvious to me evolutionists get the cart before the horse.

Creation science and intelligent design are ascending viewpoints in the community; the more science learns about life past and present, the more minds are opened to the necessity of an external originating intelligence. After all, life does not spontaneously come from non-life and sticking your head in the sand won't make it so!

Check this out for daily updates on creation/evolution headlines: http://creationsafaris.com/crev200607.htm

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sci4all 8 years, 2 months ago

Alternative views of evolution and the origin of life (two separate issues) are fine - just provide the evidence, do the work, get through peer review. Do the science!

Why do IDcreos insist on sneaking their ideas in through school boards rather than going through that rigorous process?

Until the IDcreos are willing to play by the rules of science they have no right to insist that their bastardized conglomeration of fairy tales be taught as science.

Next, the IDcreos will insist we 'teach the controversy' in math . . . zero doesn't exist because it implies nothingness, and infinity should not be discussed because of theological implications.

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DaREEKKU 8 years, 2 months ago

Teaching about a higher creator should be not be included in a science class but in a different class context. If people want to spit in the face of science then take away everything science has given them. You can't just take the parts you like (air conditioning, SUVs, medicine) and get rid of stuff you don't like (evolution). Here we go, another long day of posts.

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erichaar 8 years, 2 months ago

Scott Rothschild, whom I like a lot, writes, "individuals associated with the religious right"

As compared with individuals associated with the religious left? Or how about the atheist left? Don't they exist too?

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

"If we can win all five seats, creating a 7-3 conservative majority in spite of all the media and academia against us, then the liberals and evolutionists would learn the undeniable message that they can no longer get away with cramming evolutionism down ours and our neighbors kids' throats!" she wrote."

=====================================

As a conservative this offends me a great deal. WHo the heck does this person think they are? That is not democracy, it is very much talibahnlike.

People who believe like this and those that agree with them should not be allowed to vote. You do not have enough information. If you want to believe the moon is green cheese fine, but the rest of us understand is a planetary body, no matter how much "spiritual" crapola you hang on it.

This "Debate" which isn't a debate, of evolution v. ahh something else. What is is you are pushing other than saying evolution is wrong BTW? Where is the peer reviewed research and the volumes of experiments that show what you got is a "scientific theory".

Again these folks do know the definition of:

"Theroy" "evolution" "debate" "Peer Review" "science" "biological sciences".

If people like these do not understand the basic facts governing evolution or just refuse to accept fact, they sure as hell should NOT be commenting on it.

IF you have an opposing position or hypothesis to evolution then prove it in the laboratory...not in the press nor in the ballet box.

That is not the way we do science.

Got it yet???

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

There should have been a "NOT" in here:

"Again these folks do (NOT) know the definition of:

"Theroy" "evolution" "debate" "Peer Review" "science" "biological sciences".

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Jamesaust 8 years, 2 months ago

This is a good example of why these positions should not be elected: the candidates are sketchy ("hasn't attended any public forums") and the races are normally so obscure that a typical voter has no idea what their choice entails, hence, no informed vote. In contrast, a minority of agenda-driven voters focus on these races since they usually can't win races with broader appeal.

Better to have a stronger Governor, who can't easily hide from voter scrutiny, who selects members of the Board, perhaps with a Board Chairman elected state-wide.

(Besides, isn't there something strange about a candidate who is employed out-of-state being an official?)

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ronwell_dobbs 8 years, 2 months ago

Can't say I'm happy about more Creationism coming from either direction; however, I'm happy to see the idea that a political party, even the Democratic party, will actually have the notion of competitive elections even in the primaries. In the popular vein of subscribing a simple remedy to all our society's problems, I say that incumbency and unaccountability are the biggest problems we have, not gay marriage, creationism, immigration, or anything else. Let's make these elected representative SOBs work for their meal ticket.

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

HERE! HERE !

Good one Logic!

That is as I see it!

We are now an agreed majority of 2.

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

I am so sick of the hypocritical evolutionists saying they believe that we have become what we are today by millions of years of aquiring dominant trait by dominant trait until wahlah we have arrived. Then you create drugs to fight off diseases demonstrating your lack of trust in allowing the natural magic you call evolution to take its normal course. Your beliefs do not match your actions. If you really do believe evolution then what result will your messing with the genes, diseases and the like result in, in a million years. Do your actions match what you believe?

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

JackKats:

"Then you create drugs to fight off diseases demonstrating your lack of trust in allowing the natural magic you call evolution to take its normal course."

Sticking your head in the sand is not a desireable "acquired characteristic". The medical advances are "because of" and not at odds with evolutionary principal. We understand how things work, and then can repair the problem or address it. That is entirely different than what you proposed in your ill conceived post.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Your beliefs do not match your actions."

That's right, because they are not based on "beliefs". Another strawman from the ID/Creo yahoos INC. We are operating on a set of "Facts" and n ot a "belief" system". I will however still pray to the almighty for his help, and thankful that he gave me a brain on which to figure out this life and how it works.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"If you really do believe evolution then what result will your messing with the genes, diseases and the like result in, in a million years. Do your actions match what you believe?"

Please re-phrase your intended comment into a question that makes sense.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++==

If YOU sir believe that the evolutionary process is not occurring or based on fact, just go through your local grocery and DO NOT PICK UP the EVIL EVOLUTIONARY PRODUCED MATERIALS!!!

That means all the loaves of bread, the meat, the fish, the vegetables ALL of it is from evolutionary processess. It is time to take off the 4 cornered beanie of ID/Creo and put on the thinking cap.

In doing so it does not result in a seperation form the ability to kneel and pray.

Insisting that it does is idiotic and unchristian.

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bondmen 8 years, 2 months ago

If you Origin of the Species believers from The Church of Darwin had any solid evidence to prove your pet theories would not your cause be bettered by promoting and explaining these supposed facts to others rather than exhibiting your lack of vocabulary and showing to us all your weak grasp of the facts in true science?

True science must be both observable and repeatable otherwise one's philosophical assumptions drive the expected result thus coloring the outcome toward one's presuppositions.

Forensic science performed in a prescribed manner is capable of observing the present state of a defined target and making reasonable guesses about past events and their prior cause and effect.

What kind of 'science' is the modern evolutionist relying on when he shouts his mantra 'evolution is fact' and requires a priori a designer or vast supernatural intelligence be wholly, totally and dogmatically ignored?

http://creationsafaris.com/crev200607.htm

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

Bondmen,

Your post is the regular "circular logic" exihibited by yahoos like the ID/Creo crowd.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++===

"What kind of 'science' is the modern evolutionist relying on when he shouts his mantra 'evolution is fact' and requires a priori a designer or vast supernatural intelligence be wholly, totally and dogmatically ignored?"

UNH, what are you trying to say here? Evolution is NOT about Life STARTING is is about how it changed through out time. It DOES NOT REQUIRE a belief fo a "proiro designer" or proof, IT SIMPLY DOES NOT ADDRESS THAT AVENUE OF THOUGHT!!!! That is "Abiogenesis for the millionth time, would you just stop repeating a question and statement that has already been addressed. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Forensic science performed in a prescribed manner is capable of observing the present state of a defined target and making reasonable guesses about past events and their prior cause and effect."

NO it is NOT! It is about observing events and "measuring them" and "describing them". A "reasonable guess" is NOT science.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "True science must be both observable and repeatable otherwise one's philosophical assumptions drive the expected result thus coloring the outcome toward one's presuppositions."

AGREED! Please present your repeatable and observable and peer reviewed research on the "Intelligent Design" and "Creationism" hypothesis.

IF you can't, THEN kwitcherbytchen. You then do not have any Science. Additionally "Proof" is not the same as "criticism" of a scientific theory.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"had any solid evidence to prove your pet theories would not your cause be bettered by promoting and explaining these supposed facts to others rather than exhibiting your lack of vocabulary and showing to us all your weak grasp of the facts in true science?"

Look Skezix, YOU are the one with the shaky vocabulary and shakey understanding of Science. IT IS NOT A BELIEF!!! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER ANYTHING IS SUPERNATURAL OR NOT!!!! IT HAS TO DO WITH WHAT HUMANS CAN SEE AND HEAR AND TOUCH AND FEEL. THAT MY FRIEND IS SCIENCE.

Sorry for yelling. But which book in the Bible are you getting your WORD of GOD from anyway. Is it in the original Greek? Did you not listen to the Word of God in the Gospel of Judas?? Did you not listen to the words of Jesus in the Gospel of Mary?? Did you not understand that Genesis was a "shortcut" book that replaced "The story of Adam and Eve"? Do you understand the words in "The Shepard of Hermes"?

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

Don't pull your arrogand FOS Christianity here buddy! That is very offensive to us REAL Christians. How can you fundamentalist yahoos be proud of the number you are doing on Christianity, you are like the disease of the Talibahn on Islam. Fundamental extremists are just that, and they are no great "spiritual leaders". Look at what that Yahoo in Texas and Arizona is doing in the name of God, he is sanctioning child abuse and rape. That is in the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints. Now that makes the rest of the LDS look bad, but they are not that way.

So knowk off the fundamentalist stuff and KEEP IT OUT OF OUR SCHOOLS!!!

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

Abestos:

Your beliefs are based on what you have been taught and a limited logical conclusion based on limited evidence. Fifty years ago there were those that were just as dogmatic about what they concluded from evidence but now is discounted by today's standards. Your beliefs and conclusions will be set aside again in fifty years as more evidence is found that must fit another model that evolves. Only your theory is evolving and not man as you conclude.

I do not buy into the Inteligent Design either. I believe that to be a compromise and not good Christian Theology. I believe the Bible just as it is written. We were created and fell. We are redeemed by the blood of Christ and we will be changed from mortal to immortal when he returns.

Still after all you claim to know, death still continues, man still struggles, there are still poor, diseases still threaten millions, sickness continues, murder, envy, lust,hatred etc, etc continue on. These are the roots of which we have that continue and will continue. Only through Christ and his sacrifice will we ever be washed from sin and the consequences there of.

And we will be changed, from mortal to immortal when we are with him. This is the only evolving that I believe in and trust in.

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

"I believe the Bible just as it is written. "

You mean the 4th Century Cannon.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"We were created and fell. We are redeemed by the blood of Christ and we will be changed from mortal to immortal when he returns."

NO KIDDING?? ANd you think you are the lone keeper of this?? ANd just what does that have anything remotely to do with evolution?? HMMM!?!?!? How in the world does a KNOWLEDGE of EVOLUTION threaten or diminish our Savior????? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Only through Christ and his sacrifice will we ever be washed from sin and the consequences there of."

AGAIN. What does this have to do with Evolution in the School curriculum?? (Why does God need a starship?) How is the Savior diminished or desicreated by evolution??

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"And we will be changed, from mortal to immortal when we are with him. This is the only evolving that I believe in and trust in."

Yes, and that is news exactly to whom? Were you slow on the uptake, because I have known all that for years and have accepted it wholeheartedly?

My point is this: WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH EVOLUTION IN THE SCHOOL CURRICULUM????

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What you just showed the world here was stupidity. Jesus still loves you, but Jesus loves everyone....even sinners. What he does not like is blasphemy> Arrogancy in their spirituality is blasphemy in the Christian faith. Are we not supposed to be "praying in the closet." Why do you yahoos have to shove down throat of every passerby you meet? Evangelical in that sense is really "blasphemy" in the modern way "spreading the word". NOT the way it is supposed to be done "AS STATED IN THE BIBLE".

OH, so you just accept SOME things as "literal". ANd who has made those decisions..GOD? NO MEN did.

You sir are the Christian equilelant of Wahabi.

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

IF that is about me, I take that as a high compliment.

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james bush 8 years, 2 months ago

dem vs repub used to be about big gvmt vs big business.......whereinhell did we let libs /dems make it god vs godless...........ACLU!

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

Abestos

So you argue for God. No, you grab hold of the thought that man is a bi-product of time and chance. He is growing and going onto better things? Please define time for me. Can you even grasp this concept and prove it or is it just something that you take for granted as being?

I believe the Bible and that man has fallen from a state of perfection; physically, spiritually and intelectually. I do not see us as climbing a ladder up but rather in a downward fall.

Thus, evolution gives a false sense of security of hope for man. It denies the creation of man from nothing into the form he is today. Evolution is a grasp at a straw of limited evidence. So you say, you look at the past and history and see the evidence and extrapulate what happened by this evidence by what we are today? Today's greatest mathmaticians can not even take past weather and predict yesterdays weather. How much more complex is man then weather?

How will people know unless they have a preacher? Shout it from the roof tops. Jesus died openly on the cross and not in some closet.

It is you that have a contradiction in what you believe. I, stake all I have on Jesus and a God who is all powerful to create man from dust and loving enough to give us free choice even when it is not what he wants of and for us.

What does this have to do with evolution. Evolution is a lie that changes when something new is brought about. It is the lie that scratches itching ears. It is the lie that is used to argue against God.

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

DIONG DING DING DING.... WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

Yours is the type of twisted "faith" that allows deplorable things to happen. Much like the variety that Fred Phelps pushes. You have just entered that level of esteemed "Spiritual Leadership".

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

"I do not see us as climbing a ladder up but rather in a downward fall."

Hence your problem. You have no faith.

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

"Jesus died openly on the cross and not in some closet."

From Matthew in the KJV Verse 6. We were talking of praying

"KJMatt.06

"1": Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

"2": Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

"3": But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

"4": That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

"5": And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

"6": But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. "

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

Hey fool. Deplorable things so happen! Take your head out of the sand and open your eyes.

Man has fallen and his only chance is that of Christ.

Mine is a faith that all will be right in Christ and in Heaven. My hope is in God and not man and not in some set of perfect circumstances that might not ever come. My faith is outside of the realm of today but in that of eternity and in the eternal God who revealed himself in Christ. This is my faith.

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

OH, that verse is not to be taken literally by you evangelicals is it now. They why pray tell would Genesis not be metaphor?

This is the "Inconvienent Truth" for the right as Al's was for the left.

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

There is your "Word of God and Savior", and YOU just disagreed! FOr what? To support your stubborn Pride? Faith should not be pride.

You learning anything yet?

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

Again I say.....WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH EVOLUTION IN THE CLASSROOM??!!?!?!?!

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

Asbestos. The verses you shared are for prayer. Preaching and declaring faith is to be bold and open. My point is that evolution should not be taught at all because it is a slippery slope that will disprove itself and replaced by another theory later. Just as todays version of truth of evolution displaced the one spewed forth years ago.

Read more of the bible asbestos and take a stand on something other then science, falsely so called. Take a stand for Christ and declare his truth. But first search for the truth and the truth will be revealed.

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xenophonschild 8 years, 2 months ago

JackKats:

Jesus is dead. He wasn't god when he was alive, not ever. He was an illegitimate Galilean peasant who managed to get himself executed two thousand years ago. And he's not coming back.

And your bible is a mess of pullulating drivel.

ASBESTOS, who is doing remarkably well against the blithering-idiot crowd, pointed out a fundamental truth. Our science is based on research, on experiment that can be reproduced and examined, and on peer review.

What I'd like to do is take you dead Galilean, staple his butt back on the cross, and then watch and calibrate all his responses to being "transmitted up to heaven."

Yeah, baby.

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

xeno. The odds are that you will blame God or call on God sometime in your life more then the chance I will put fatih in evolution.

Stick to your guns Xeno. Keep up the lack of faith and click your heels together three times and repeat your wish. You have nothing to gain and all to lose in your beliefs and I have all to gain and nothing to lose.

You fight so hard and speak with such contempt about someone you have no faith in.

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

Jack:

"Read more of the bible asbestos and take a stand on something other then science, falsely so called. Take a stand for Christ and declare his truth. But first search for the truth and the truth will be revealed."

You should probably take your own advice. Take a stand on something other than disproving science. Listen to truth, and accept it in all it's forms, not just your preconceived notions of how you "THINK" faith and spiritualitity should be expressed.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++======

Xeno we agree on the evolution in the classroom thing however one whould not, try to take down any religion. Saying "Jesus is dead" is frankly offensive. If you do not believe it fine, yes you have first amdndment rights to say that, but Phred has rights and it does not make him any less dieagreeable and he holds himself up as "ultimate christian" as Jack and his ilk seem to be doing now.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

What we have here is folks trying to "out do each other" as to who is "saved more" or "more pius" or "more humble" (NO I am more humbel than you, in fact I am the most humbel person I know).

Faith is how one looks at oneself and how you treat the world. It is NOT for convincing the world that is wrong and has got to go.

That is where you miss Jack, you get all hung up on dogma, just like a talibahni!

Read more than just the BIble Jack, there are 30 other books. There are also libraries full of interesting things created by God's creation...Man. It's pretty good stuff on the whole.

Henceforth folks, THERE IS MIDDLE GROUND!

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james bush 8 years, 2 months ago

coulter.......by any other spelling would seem as .....thanks I thought it looked strange.

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

Abestos

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. Faith is an action and application of what one believes. I need not accept all things just because it is the prevailing theory and take it as fact when it contradicts that which has stood over time and has been proven in life. (The Bible) I need not read the Koran or Buddha to understand God better when he has revealed himself in Jesus. I need only strive to know Jesus better and submit to his will. This is what I find as the truth of life and the call I have.

And with believing the Bible as it is written, every word, I must call out falsehood when it reveals itself as truth.

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xenophonschild 8 years, 2 months ago

No, there is no middle ground. Religion is bad; secular humanism is good.

The history of Western Europe for the last thousand years is a long, tortured story of thinking people declaring independence, and fighting for independent thought, from the power of theocrats.

JackKats and his ilk are the enemy, period. Christianity is a lie; Jesus is dead; he was not god, not ever. Can't you people understand that you've been lied to your entire lives?

Truth is all that matters. Whatever is true is good, because it is truth. You have to be strong enough to handle the truth, even when it means you are going to grow old and die and cease to exist; even when it means that religion is a blanket across a window to keep you from seeing what's really outside.

I personally have nothing against Jesus; he was just trying to do the best he could with what he had to work with . . . but he's dead, and he was never god.

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

xeno I am only your enemy because you have declared me as such. It is not I that you call out as an enemy but the belief in Christ and thus Christ himself you fight against. And since he has risen, he is victor. Hands down you lose. Xeno, each of us that live in America benefit from acts of faith because that is what this country was founded upun. This is why people came to this country. To freely worship God and seek him.So you bask in the fruits of faith and show no thanks for these brave people who dared to take action and stand up for what they believe.

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

SW I do not want ID taught either. I don't believe in it. I also don't want to be forced to support the schools through my tax $$ and support what it teaches. thus I have a say in what is taught through votes just as you have a say what my tax $$ support as being taught.

This is the democracy that I live in today. I disagree with you and you with me. I am forced to support schools which evidence shows as failing and falling behind. So I should keep my mouth shut and allow what I see as a falsehood to be given as fact and stand by and do nothing.

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xenophonschild 8 years, 2 months ago

Wow, indeed. And to think I wasted so much time punching a keyboard for this lollipop's edification.

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

The solution would be to give me vouchers so I do not support your beliefs that you teach as fact and allow me to invest in my kids education where they are given an education that teaches them the truth or another view point that disagrees with yours.

This way neither of us impose upun the other.

Education is important and vital to growth and anyone who deprives their kids of an education is not doing them any good.

My disagreement is with ID is that it is a compromised watered down version of the truth as the Bible presents the history of the creation of man.

Evolution is based on theory filling holes in evidence so called. Just as you predict what happened to bring us into being because of final result of what we are today is like trying to predict yesterdays weather based on models from previous days weather. The models still do not work and the predictions still come out wrong.

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ronwell_dobbs 8 years, 2 months ago

Hmmm. I wonder if they allow HTML embedded in comments? It would make SHOUTING seem much more effective.

Does anyone really believe this argument is designed to be resolved? That's what's great about these no-win issues. The only victory is phyrric.

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Terry Jacobsen 8 years, 2 months ago

ASBESTOS is not a conservative. Any idiot can see through that lie.

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JackKats 8 years, 2 months ago

SW...Wish it was earlier so I could continue this conversation. It is OK for you to take my tax dollars to support your idea of education and not OK for me to get vouchers to teach my children that which is consistent with home. This is not a fair and equitable solution.

You don't want the bible to be taught in schools and leaves you this choice to pursue this option outside of schools. Humanism, values, situational ethics, and the like are presented to my children everyday in schools.

There is such a huge debate to be held about the schools and what they promote besides the three r's. They have overstepped their bounds and have become much more then just about education.

Have a good night all and God bless each of you.

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ASBESTOS 8 years, 2 months ago

From TJ:

"ASBESTOS is not a conservative. Any idiot can see through that lie."

From HGA:

"ASBESTOS is even further right than conservative. That's why he gets along with RightThinker and Arminius."

That's what the middle looks like folks. The middle is what you have to play to win elections, in other words me, and those who think like me. That is what a middle to conservative lean looks like.

I don't like:

Illegal Aliens Al Gore's Movie or his stance on Global Climatic Change ID/Creo's Dissing Evolution without science ALL the hoopala over "values" People who think the USA is worse than any terrorist or dictator Cindy Sheehan Pat Leahy Arlene Spector Tom Delay Harry Reid ALMOST all the Senators Those who raise hell about Terry Shiavo right to die Poor response by Govenmental Agencies Spineless Civil Servant Regulators

THings I like:

CONTROLLED SPENDING Government PROGRAMS THAT WORK Fresh Venison Governmental INvestigations that end with a Prosecution Enforced Environmental ANd Safety Regulations Tax Breaks Small Business Development Democracy and Freedom PROTECTING OUR COUNTRY Securing our BOrders

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DaREEKKU 8 years, 2 months ago

Did any of you know that from an extremely early age that children in Britain are taught about ALL religions equally (and it continues throughout their education)? I would support something like that, but not the promotion of one religion alone. BTW JackKats.....Xenu Bless You

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