Archive for Wednesday, December 20, 2006

Busy road has residents worried

KU students try to solve 27th Street traffic issue

December 20, 2006


Southern Lawrence residents want to put the brakes on cut-through traffic on one of the few roads connecting Iowa and Louisiana streets.

Landra Fair says 27th Street traffic has grown beyond an inconvenience to her neighbors.

"Many times we've seen tire marks in people's yards," she said. "We do hear a lot of screeching tires and brakes."

Bonnie Johnson, president of the Indian Hills Neighborhood Association, has heard the complaints. And she's doing something about it; she turned the issue into an assignment for her students at Kansas University, where she is an assistant professor of urban planning.

Five of her graduate students have come up with proposals to slow the cars.

"This is a real-life project, so they get a little bit of practice," Johnson said.

The students warmed to the assignment.

"We looked at a raised crosswalk on 27th Street, where Naismith Park comes around," said Enjoli Dixon, who worked on the project.

"And if there's money available, putting in a roundabout on Missouri Street," said Susan Paxson, another graduate student.

The neighborhood voted on the proposals, giving a thumbs-up to the raised crosswalk, as well as speed humps, more lighting and more sidewalks.

Next step: asking City Hall to approve the projects.

Edward Booth, who lives at 1516 w. 27th st., checks his mail as the rain lets up Wednesday afternoon, while cars roar past his home. Booth and a lot of residents along 27th Street have noticed a build-up of traffic the past few years.

Edward Booth, who lives at 1516 w. 27th st., checks his mail as the rain lets up Wednesday afternoon, while cars roar past his home. Booth and a lot of residents along 27th Street have noticed a build-up of traffic the past few years.

"This is pretty exciting that some of their ideas might actually come to fruition," Johnson said.

But David Woosley, the city traffic safety engineer, said there's a dozen locations across the city on a waiting list to fund similar projects.

"We look at volume of traffic, speed, if there's sidewalks in the area," Woosley said, explaining the priorities for choosing projects. "We also look at reported crashes and if there are other pedestrian generators, like a park or school."

Fair hopes her neighborhood gets help.

"They just go by so quickly," she said of vehicles on 27th Street. "It would just be nice to have people pay a little more attention to pedestrians."


cutelovemonkey38 11 years, 6 months ago

I think this is true. But stupid. Roundabouts aren't going to do anything, people will be hitting the darn curb. Not to mention its not like these people are being forced to live there. They have a choice just like everybody else. Put in stop signs or a even a light if you want to. But not a roundabout. Those things just cause trouble.

KS 11 years, 6 months ago

Roundabouts are the greatest thing since sliced bread with respect to moving traffic. If you can't negotiate around them, turn in your license. Just where did you folks get your license anyway, Wal-Mart?

Sandman 11 years, 6 months ago

People use residential side streets because the main streets are clogged.

For crying out loud, isn't it time to finish the SLT?

cowboy 11 years, 6 months ago

Every street in central Lawrence is overloaded with traffic trying to get across town yet there is a movement to impede the cars at every turn with bumps , medians , roundabouts.

At the same time the ostriches have thier heads in the sand and will not address the issue of moving traffic i.e. SLT , parkways.

as I drive out Clinton Parkway it strikes me every morning , what moron or group of morons decided to ruin a perfectly great road with the roundabout out there ?

oldgoof 11 years, 6 months ago

Article: "We looked at a raised crosswalk on 27th Street, where Naismith Park comes around," said Enjoli Dixon, who worked on the project.

"And if there's money available, putting in a roundabout on Missouri Street," said Susan Paxson, another graduate student. .. Goof says: Duhh. Reporters and others should not characterize this as remotely academic in any way until the 'graduate students' look at improvement issues in light of competition for limited financial resources.

PapaB 11 years, 6 months ago

Small Roundabouts are just the worst idea there is. It slows down traffic just as much as a 4 way stop sign because they're so small only one car can be in it safely at once.

Add more freaking stop signs if you want to slow traffic.

And finish the SLT, on 32nd St, where more people will use it.

KS 11 years, 6 months ago

Sandman, I agree.


Plumberscrack says- "Roundabouts should be paid for solely by the neighborhoods they serve and NOT the citizens of Lawrence as a whole!"

Does he feel the same way about the street in front of his house? Next time it needs paved, let the City send him the bill. Maybe Plumberscrack lives on a dirt road? long as it is not their money. Streets serve the benefit of the entire community and the community as a whole should pay for them.

Regardless, finish the +#@?! SLT!

LogicMan 11 years, 6 months ago

Is it time for the traffic planners to realize that 27th, and also Louisiana from 19th to 31st, needs to be widened to four lanes? Much of 19th St. too. And prohibit street parking on both sides.

It's what was needed on other major N-S and E-W routes in town over the years, and more will be needed in the future. Yes, yards, and maybe even some buildings, will need to be sacrificed.

Pay for it by scaling back dramatically that near-empty-buses program. And no more little traffic circles -- convert all to four-way stops. (Note to LJW: 'traffic circle' is the U.S. term; 'roundabout' is British, etc.)

cms 11 years, 6 months ago

This story reminds me of a drive we recently took through the neighborhood east of Harvard and Wakarusa. Harvard is chalked full of small, difficult roundabouts and speed bumps.

I believe streets are public property and should be used by everyone AND I believe these methods to reduce or slow traffic should be abandoned.

I agree with most, leave 27th Street alone and build the SLT. If you are a homeowner, I'm sorry, keep your kids in the backyard (like we did) or move.

Katie Van Blaricum 11 years, 6 months ago

I love how they suggested to put in a roundabout!! Yay Roundabouts!!! .....barf....

doubledogleg 11 years, 6 months ago

build the SLT. 27th street, 19th, 15th, 9th,6th, Clinton Pkwy, Tennessee/Kentucky are all roads I (and others) use to get THROUGH Lawrence.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

The completion of the SLT would have almost no effect on the level of traffic on 27th St. As with 23rd, the vast majority of traffic on that street is fairly local in nature.

Hardly anyone now using it would be willing drive 5 blocks too far south of where they want to be and then have to drive those 5 blocks back north to where they want to be.

I know that won't satisfy any of you frothing over the "need" for the SLT, but it's a simple observable fact.

estespark 11 years, 6 months ago

If residents are concerned with vehicle speeds, the first step should be enforcement of posted speed limits along 27th street.

Also, I am curious what percentage of this traffic is local.

hipper_than_hip 11 years, 6 months ago

Traffic calming devices and roundabouts won't lessen the number of cars on the street. Unless we can get the flow of traffic to increase on our major east-west streets, the only reasonable solution is to widen some of the existing arterials, like 9th, 19th, and 27th.

Jamesaust 11 years, 6 months ago

"People use residential side streets because the main streets are clogged."

Point of order: 27th street is an arterial street even if there is little commercial property along it. No one on 27th bought and moved into their home without full knowledge of this fact. (Its like someone in one of those houses about Iowa & Harvard or Mass. & 21st complaining about traffic near their house.) If you want the isolation of a dead-end street then pay the market premium to buy one.

Trying to fix problems on 27th in the absence of solving larger-picture concerns is fruitless and, more importantly to the taxpayer, the definition of "waste."

estespark 11 years, 6 months ago

27th is not an arterial, it is an urban collector.

cowboy 11 years, 6 months ago

using bozo's & logs logic we would still have only a few dirt roads in downtown and all be riding horses. Not bad I have horses !

The traffic load has simply out grown the grid in Lawrence. a well run town would have a plan to expand knowing it is a painful process of property acquisition and that horrible thing called growth / progress. But Lawrence chooses to sit in denial and offer up these little " see I did something " solutions to quiet down the neighbors and only move the traffic to some other small street.

Identify the arterials , start acquiring property and expand these streets and build the by passes on the east and south sides. Lawrence has the same streets as when I moved back here 20 years ago but the population has tripled. I'm not a great mathmetician but somethingnhas to give !

jafs 11 years, 6 months ago

I find the comment about $80,000 to synchronize lights on 23rd St. very interesting. If that is in fact true, it seems like a relatively small amount of money to pay for a vast improvement - why hasn't the city done that? Traffic on 23rd St. is difficult and dangerous, and synchronizing those lights would help quite a bit, along with reducing the number of turn-offs into parking lots.

Godot 11 years, 6 months ago

Sorry, jafs, the commission spent the $80,000 (and then some) on a consultant whose recommendations they do not plan to follow.

estespark 11 years, 6 months ago

Signal optimization will not make 23rd any better. The problem is too many driveways. Access needs to be managed on 23rd, only then will synchronized traffic signals be effective.

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

23rd street is a lost cause. The only real way to reduce curb cuts would be to make frontage roads for the two sides of the road. That can't happen because it would leave all the businesses without parking lots.

It's time to do what we can about getting traffic through Lawrence without having to rely on 23rd. 1. finish the SLT, 2. build a connection from K-10 to 6th street

If we insist on continuing to use 23rd street as a major traffic mover then the best option is to eliminate businesses along either the north or south side of the road, shift the road that direction and build a frontage road for the businesses that remain. Of course you've just lost a huge portion of the tax base so that would never happen.

estespark 11 years, 6 months ago

23rd street is not a lost cause and you do not need frontage roads to reduce curb cuts, rather you would need better circulation between each businesses' parking lots thus eliminating the need for multiple driveways.

bugmenot 11 years, 6 months ago

The SLT will do absolutely nothing. It's also against federal environmental protection law. I don't care if you think environmental protection is stupid or great; the $#& thing is against the law. It's been litigated. End of story. Find another way. It cuts through Native American ground, too. I completely agree with the poster who said it would do nothing to alleviate 23rd street back ups (or even 27th street back ups). No one's going to jaunt south at Iowa or even Wakarusa, hop on the SLT for 2 minutes, then drive back north to go to Panera or Mass Street or wahtever. People use 23rd to get from West Lawrence to central or East Lawrence, not through Lawrence on their way to Topeka. 23rd has about a million stoplights between Iowa and Haskell; that's the problem and it's unfixable. Chalk it up to bad planning and overpopulation, but the SLT won't do &#! to fix it. The SLT would be in violation of federal law, unsightly, and unnecessarily stepping on the toes of Native Americans, all to do nothing. No one takes it from north west Lawrence on their way to Target - why is there any indication to anyone they'll take it if it extended all the way to Louisian Street or K-10?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

If my memory serves me correctly, there is no interchange planned for Lousiana in the proposals for the SLT, which means that even if someone did want to go out of their way to use it as an option to 27th, it'd take way more than a 10-block detour to do it.

jonas 11 years, 6 months ago

Or we can all just bite the bullet and admit that we don't have much of a traffic problem.

AAAAAAHHHHH cars get backed up somewhat during rush hour!

countrygirl 11 years, 6 months ago

Bugmenot-- I know lots of people who work in the East Hills Business Park and live in Topeka who would love to see the bypass finished. They take the existing by pass as far as they can and then have to come through Lawrence to get the rest of the way to work. I'd love to be able to come in from Eudora to the south part of Lawrence to shop and not have to drive through Lawrence. Use all the other arguements that you want, but if they build it, people will use it.

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

bugme, you're missing a few relevant things.

First to complete the SLT doesn't require it to go through the swamp. It probably will but it could go farther south.

Second the times that the traffic is bad on 23rd is during rush hour. Why? because of the number of people who live in West Lawrence who work in KC.

For those people who have no need to be on 23rd other than to get across the town it makes perfect sense to go a half mile south on Wakarusa, or Kasold and get onto the SLT so that from there they can move at 65 MPH to get to K10.

bugmenot 11 years, 6 months ago

If people hate traffic so much that they want this entire extra highway built to accomodate them, why do they add to the problem by living in Topeka and working in Lawrence? Or living in Lawrence and working in KC? I think this is all a product of people wanting everything to be ultra convenient for them, when they've set up situations to be inconvenient. "I want to live in Lawrence, but I work somewhere else and hate the traffic. Make it better so I can have everything I want!" I think it's pretty selfish.

The comment "the SLT doesn't require it to go through the swamp. It probably will but it could go farther south," is exactly why the SLT was considered to break federal law. It could have been built with respect for the environment and the Native American land, but they just wanted the quick and easy way. It's all symptomatic of the same problem; selfish people wanting things really easy for them and not caring what it does to others or the world. That's why people cut through 27th, going 40, and risking kids' lives. That's why people say, "I hate driving slow on 23rd between 4 and 6; make it faster - I don't care how." Just get over it. If you hate the drive so much, don't live in Lawrence and work elsewhere. If you love Lawrence and want to keep living there, you'll have to just put up with the traffic, too; it's getting to be a much busier city than the initial plan planned for.

Janet Lowther 11 years, 6 months ago

What's with this? People buy houses on through streets and then complain that there is traffic. IF YOU DON'T WANT TRAFFIC BUY A HOUSE ON A CUL-DE-SAC.

The city should be looking for ways to move traffic efficiently. The lack of capacity on the highway streets in town is why traffic spills over onto every through street in town: Drivers will go a mile out of their way to avoid the traffic on 23rd St. Iowa and 6th streets are nearly as bad. To get to my chiropractor's office on Wakarusa from east Lawrence, I'll go clear up to the turnpike, out to the Lecompton exit and come back and still save 5-10 minutes.

It's a wonder that they aren't putting roundabouts on Kentucky & Tennessee. Oh, wait, that's in the student ghetto, so the city doesn't care.

jonas 11 years, 6 months ago

"'I want to live in Lawrence, but I work somewhere else and hate the traffic. Make it better so I can have everything I want!' I think it's pretty selfish."

Haha! Well said!

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

I live and work in Lawrence and would still use the SLT when I go to KC to visit relatives and friends. And I'm not willing to be one of the stick my head in the sand and pretend there isn't a problem like some people. There's a problem and a solution. Time to implement the solution before Lawrence grows by another 25,000 people.

BTW Bugmenot, you may want to check your facts. The swamp belongs to Baker not to Haskell.

bugmenot 11 years, 6 months ago

I wasn't saying the "swamp," as you derisively characterize it, belongs to Haskell. There is also Native American land right in the path of the proposed SLT, land that is not part of the wetlands. Check your facts, and take a chill pill. If you're wanting to visit people in KC, just say to yourself, "It'll take an extra 10 minutes because Lawrence sure is packed anymore." Why pour millions of dollars into saving impatient people 10 minutes? Especially if it comes at the price of further disrespecting the Native American community and ruining an environmental preserve?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

Take a drive anywhere in KC at busy times, and the traffic there is much worse than it is here, yet that's exactly what the cancerous-growth promoters want Lawrence to become.

So as you beat the drum about all of the positive aspects of growth, remember that along with it, the traffic will get worse no matter how many roads you build.

Godot 11 years, 6 months ago

I wonder why people live here and work in Topeka or KC, too, and vice versa. It is almost funny to see the lines of traffic leaving Lawrence and coming into Lawrence on weekday mornings and evenings.

These commuters should get together and trade houses or jobs.

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

"Why pour millions of dollars into saving impatient people 10 minutes?"

Because right now it is 10 minutes. 5 years from now when the expansion of 59 highway is completed and additional trucks are going down 23rd street because it is the only way to connect K-10 to 59 it will be more like 20 or 30.

Also by moving traffic along a bypass instead of stop and go traffic we will drastically reduce emissions and fuel consumption.

We have the chance to address future issues today. Why wait until it is impossible to drive in this town to look at the need for additional through streets?

My understanding is that other than the portion going through the Baker "Wetlands" the rest of the SLT will go through what is currently private property (regardless of which route is chosen).

Also if they choose to go through the wetlands they are going to add several hundred acres of additional wetlands that would be protected, and move 31st street farther south so that it doesn't cross Haskell's land. That would return a portion of the wetlands to Haskell and create additional natural areas. Seems like a good situation to me.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

Every now and then, we find something to agree upon, Godot.

bugmenot 11 years, 6 months ago

If it's truly the trucks causing the traffic buildup, wouldn't a better solution, then, be to ban trucks from 23rd street? I think the real problem are the people who want the feel of living in a smaller city like Lawrence (or a more uplifting city than Topeka) but want the money a job in KC provides. Then, those people complain because they very roads they're clogging up are slow.

It's not a matter of forcing Lawrence to be forward-facing. All cities are looking at enhanced traffic problems in the future. Slapping together a solution now will probably not have made the situation all that much better in 5 years. It's just going to get busier as Lawrence gets busier.

By the way, creating artificial wetlands does not make up for destroying the natural wetlands.

rubix 11 years, 6 months ago

I think its funny to read about all these people so concerned about some rotting grass and a highway, when they just recently bulldozed 50 acres of timber around the East Lawrence Nature Center to build houses. Everyone is so bent out of shape over the swamp, but apparently this argument is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than ripping up another section of wildlife...HOW COME?

Personally, I would love to see the SLT finished, and hopefully it will be SOON. I just wanted to see if anyone even noticed (or cared to complain about something that wasn't so 'political' and 'racist').

bugmenot 11 years, 6 months ago

It isn't more important; it's all in the same vein. People want every convenience they think the world owes them and don't consider other people, the environment, or anything else in their decisionmaking. It's disgusting that they've torn down so many trees for more of those cheaply made cardboard villages that have begun to populate town. Why does that make the SLT acceptable?

And, for the final time (I hope); the wetlands aren't just a "swamp." They're a rare and delicate ecosystem that deserves to continue its existence more than anyone in Lawrence deserves a 10 minute reduction in their commute. Call it a swamp all you want to in the hopes that people will build the $&# highway, but that doesn't change the fact that it's an ecologically important and protected area.

rubix 11 years, 6 months ago

A rare and delicate ecosystem that was built and will be expanded when they decide on which solution to go with. I guess 'creating' more delicate and rare ecosystem for your fight isn't worth it?

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

"By the way, creating artificial wetlands does not make up for destroying the natural wetlands."

It's not natural wetlands It was farmland less than a century ago. Before that it was wet, but not wetlands, it was an area that flooded when the Wakarusa river was up and dried when it was down. The wetlands are entirely artificial in their current configuration with Dikes in place to keep the area always filled with water.

You can't ban trucks from 23rd street. It is a state highway. K-10 continues straight through Town on 23rd, turns South on Iowa, and continues on to the West as the SLT south of town. Only way you'll get 23rd to not be a highway is to complete the SLT, then K-10 will go completely south of Lawrence.

Emily Hadley 11 years, 6 months ago

A roundabout would work, because it is a fairly wide road, but considering the park and its trails, a raised crosswalk near the bridge would be great.

The bridge is the lowest part of the road and a crosswalk there would, unlike on other portions of 27th, have a lot of visibility to alert drivers as they approached it.

It's a very pretty neighborhood to drive through, and though I take it for a break from the crazy traffic on Iowa and 23rd St, there are often folks behind me who want to go faster, including quite a few cars that come from or turn into driveways along the street.

Topside 11 years, 6 months ago

The SLT will do little if nothing to help traffic in and across Lawrence. All it will do is help people go around lawrence. The real traffic problem is within the city infrastructure itself.

The SLT will not help alleviate the thousands of people going from campus to WAL-MART or target and the Movie Theaters everyday.

Norman, OK and Manhattan are almost as badly arranged (or worse) along Tuttle Creek Blvd. From my limited experience you can't live in a college town and expect good traffic it has to go along with the "personality" of living there.

budwhysir 11 years, 6 months ago

I believe roads are built to drive on and neighborhoods are built to live in. We should have direct main routes to get thru town and to the business areas.

Busy streets in neighborhoods make it hard for those living there to get out of thier driveways. Roundabouts make it very difficult to create a flow of traffic. Look at the roundabout on 19th street when there is a game at k.u.

Traffic backs up all the way down 19th. All the way to where??? Highway 10. These people are just trying to avoid the main roads in lawrence like 23rd street and Naismith

hipper_than_hip 11 years, 6 months ago

I live near 6th & K10, and I've been using I-70 more & more lately to get to and from work (I work in OP). I actually save about 10 minutes by not having to crawl my way thru east lawrence. I-70 is a viable option for some, but if you live further than 10 minutes from a toll booth, then your stuck using K10.

budwhysir 11 years, 6 months ago

I believe we should have a certain time that people can travel on certain roads. You know like from 10:00 am to 11:00 am you can use the back roads. And during rush hour you have to stay on the main roads.

Set the stop lights to a 10 minute change system and keep that traffic flowing.

hipper_than_hip 11 years, 6 months ago

Bugmenot says: "No one takes it from north west Lawrence on their way to Target".

I live near 6th & K10, and we use the SLT all the time to go to Target, Wally World, Sears, etc. Why on earth would anyone on the NW side of town take 6th east to Iowa then crawl down to 31st?

drewdun 11 years, 6 months ago

This is off subject, but the intersection of 8th and Missouri needs to be fixed NOW. I know the roads here are crap, but this intersection is beyond the pale.

Leprechaunking13 11 years, 6 months ago

Slowing traffic on that street will only make the street more hectic and clogged itself, making other problems that don't exist now. Leave 27th alone and build a new road for through traffic to use.

budwhysir 11 years, 6 months ago

I like your thinking leperchaunking.

I dont have all good ideas, but I like the way you are going with this

budwhysir 11 years, 6 months ago

Best case offer here is to set up a tax fund that would research the flow of traffic in the Lawrence area. This fund could be collected and then used to employ some outside candidates to research wich roads we use, how long the lights stay green, wich roads most of us would like to go thru a round about on and so forth.

Additionaly, this group could do an independent survey on roads that need to be repaired. While this survey would require overtime and possibly another tax hike, it would be well worth it.

Looking at this topic, I find that the road least traveled is the road to success.

Joe Hyde 11 years, 6 months ago

I feel the biggest factors increasing traffic density (and contributing to traffic violations) on W. 27th St. is that Lawrence doesn't have enough one-way streets in its peripheral areas, and we've gotten away from the grid system of street layout.

The Indian Hills neighborhood began as a peripheral area. At the time of its development most city planners had become enthralled by the idea of doing away with the square block "grid system"; they considered it outdated, old-fashioned, unattractive. That aesthetic led to the Lawrence we have today: a city whose peripheral areas are characterized by curving streets and cul-de-sacs that are largely isolated from one another. Virtually disconnected in some instances.

Think for a moment how easy it would be for someone located south of 23rd St. to drive from Iowa St. to Louisiana St. if Indian Hills had a 27th St. designated one-way WEST, and either a 26th or 28th St. built as a one-way EAST. But that second thru street never got built. True, Naismith Park would have been cut in two places, but the blight could have been softened artfully given the talents of our city Parks & Recreation and Forestry Departments.

Maybe ways can yet be found to convert more of our city streets to one ways. They wouldn't have to be block-apart one ways, either (like Kentucky and Tennessee). Just create more one ways wherever we can. And build more connector streets everywhere practical. (Think of the hassles people face who live in the two separated peripheral developments west of Kasold and south of Clinton Parkway.)

Finishing the SLT -- or never finishing it -- is largely irrelevant to solving traffic problems on W. 27th St. There are now so many commercial businesses on south Iowa St. that the game is over. And even our semi-finished SLT keeps on provoking a blizzard of commercial and residential development out in Extremely New Superfar West Lawrence -- peripheral developments that bring more and more drivers to the south and east and north parts of the city.

I lived in the 1600 block of W. 27th St. for twenty eight years. Oops, I'm sorry; I meant to call it U.S. 27 Highway for how fast people drive on it. (The real estate agent was shrewd: he showed us the house at 9:30 PM on a Monday night.)

You ask me, the best way to slow down Indian Hills traffic is and always will be a patrolman with a radar gun and a full ticket book. Aggressively go after those speeders and stop sign runners; ticket 'em and fine 'em, keep on 'em until their tongues hang out.

MaryKatesPillStash 11 years, 6 months ago

Well said, riverat.

I love how some of your are critiquing the Bonnie's assignment, arguing that it is hardly academic. How is it NOT academic? Her students spend the semester learning planning techniques through lecture/textbooks/guest speakers and then their knowledge is applied to a final project that is a real-life problem in Lawrence. How else do you propose that students learn? It is very laughable that you criticize the grad students' proposals for not taking budget into account, yet you stand firmly behind an unfunded megaproject that will fail miserably to divert traffic on 27th Street, which was the assignment for the students.

Also, many of you have valid points that are being wasted or lost on this comment board. If you are not currently doing so, why not attend a city/county planning commission meeting? You can find the agenda, members to e-mail, other info here:

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

We're not ignorant, Bowhunter-- we just lack your obsession with pavement, and are thus able to look at all sides of the entire issue, and after doing so, we come up with a very different conclusion than you do.

bugmenot 11 years, 6 months ago

I don't think calling people "ignorant" is entirely appropriate until you show us all a copy of your civic planning license. I think most people generally agree that the SLT wouldn't get rid of the biggest problem; IN TOWN traffic.

No one would "stop using their house if we determine and indian died there 300 years ago," but that's not even the same thing as this. People don't want to BUILD in the sacred area; no one's saying "tear down the already-built highway."

Honestly, and your name is "bowhunter."

rubix 11 years, 6 months ago

The problem with this is a few simple things. We could re-vote on the issue for the 100th time to see what 'everyone' wants, but until we get the answer that a 'few' want, we will keep debating/arguing/postponing everything. I bet if there was a vote for 'no SLT' the issue would go silent for fear of it being discussed again. I'm getting a shovel and going to start digging. Maybe I will have it done by the time everyone agrees.

kcwarpony 11 years, 6 months ago

Again with the "it's not a natural wetlands".

"In the 1880s and 1890s, the Haskell farm was focused on the upland areas, generally north of where 31st Street is today, because of the wetland nature of the bottom lands and the frequent flooding of the Wakarusa River. Although the bottom lands could be used for pastures and hay production, their drainage to increase land available for crops was a goal of the Superintendents from the earliest years. Federal appropriations for drainage projects, however, were not available until the early 1900s, and the small measures used to provide flood protection and drainage were not very successful."

"The area today is returning to a wetland probably similar to the era prior to pioneer settlement and clearing in the mid-1800s."

DRAFT Section 4(f) Evaluation 4f-14

rubix 11 years, 6 months ago

"Honestly, and your name is "bowhunter." "

What does someone's ONLINE/INTERNET/BLOG NAME have to do with their focus of an issue? That sounds like you are using reverse profiling to fuel your argument that someone who should be your ally, is in fact, your foe...

bugmenot 11 years, 6 months ago

Why should bowhunter be my ally? I'm opposed to the SLT, and they are for it.

Their online name has to do with the argument because if they're a bowhunter, as their name suggests, you'd think they'd be more interested in preserving nature, if for no other reason, than to preserve the habitat of animals they hunt.

mom_of_three 11 years, 6 months ago

27th is a street - is it not? But we can't use it because your house is on it? hhmmm Do you know how many people use 25th terrace to avoid the intersection at 23rd & Haskell? Even the school busses drive down 25th terrace to the light at 23rd and Harper.

Tychoman 11 years, 6 months ago

If they put a roundabout on 27th Street, I'm going to scream.

mom_of_three 11 years, 6 months ago

I use 27th street to get from Iowa to Lousiana all the time. If I am traveling South on Iowa, and need to get to 31st and Louisiana or South junior high, I will use 27th street to avoid the traffic problems at 31st & Iowa. The SLT won't affect my use of 27th street.

Harry_Manback 11 years, 6 months ago

Totally off topic, but why does the ljworld insist on calling the University of Kansas, Kansas University? It's so annoying... No other paper (or the KU School of Journalism) refers to it that way.

Laura Watkins 11 years, 6 months ago

i think it's funny that people are complaining about 23rd street-- it's is HARDLY a traffic problem. HARDLY comparable to the traffic in kansas city (try SM Parkway... 87th...75th...119th...135th...) or even college towns of a similar size (or smaller!)

Laura Watkins 11 years, 6 months ago

and actually...i think the traffic on 6th is worse than the traffic on 23rd. it takes me longer to go the same distance on 6th.

budwhysir 11 years, 6 months ago

I believe all this talk points directly to our solution, lets all rely on the T to get us where we need to go. Save on gas, fewer cars on the road, and someone to blame when we are late getting where we need to be

jonas 11 years, 6 months ago

NWOR? That's the second acronym I've had to look up today. The first was FOAD. It's been a learning day.

budwhysir 11 years, 6 months ago

How about turn lanes, would it be beneficial to put turn lanes every other block to ease the flow of traffic turning. I notice there are no left turn signs on 23rd now. These seem to be posted to keep people from turning left.

I say these work some of the time but if we allowed turns, we would have everyone going where they want

budwhysir 11 years, 6 months ago

I know no one likes new ideas but wouldnt a smooth flow of traffic create a good flow of traffic thru an area. This is probalby a dead issue for now, but it will resurface and many will listen to my logics

Larry Miller 11 years, 6 months ago

Have you added up the cost of the roundabaouts already built and compared it to the money needed to get our streets back to good repair? hmm...

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