Archive for Monday, August 7, 2006

Rainbow flag causes flap in small town

August 7, 2006


— A 12-year-old son's gift of a colorful flag he found while staying with his grandparents in California has put his parents in the middle of controversy in this small town.

J.R. and Robin Knight said they knew the rainbow flag was a symbol of gay rights when they decided last month to fly it on a pole in front of their business, the Lakeway Hotel. But that isn't why they flew the banner.

"We just put it up. We didn't think about it," Robin said. "It has pretty colors, it's bright, it's summery."

And, J.R. Knight said, it was a symbolic way to have their son nearby.

The decision prompted a controversy in the town of 1,600 and eventually someone cut the flag down. It's also prompted an Internet-fueled debate on gay rights in rural America, and the Knights say they have received messages of support from around the world.

Now, the Knights say, they are determined to replace the flag and keep it flying.

Waitress Vicky Best said such a flag has no place in Meade.

"It's hard enough to keep your kids on the straight and narrow without outside influences like that," she complains. "We stay in a small town to stay away from the crap like that that's happening in big cities," she said, calling homosexuality "biblically wrong."

But retiree Charles Helms said he doesn't care if the Knights fly the flag.

"If he wants to fly that thing, let him fly it," Helms said. "I don't have a problem at all because I know the story behind it."

The Knights say they have no problems with homosexuals, but they have never taken a role in the gay rights movement. They moved to Meade two years ago from southern California to pursue their dream of operating a bed-and-breakfast.

The Knights say the anger displayed by some residents has strengthened their resolve to keep the rainbow flag flying.

Flying the flag not only protests discrimination, they say, but they also believe giving into the pressure would send the wrong message to their son, Anthony.

"It's our business. It shouldn't be dictated by other people," Robin Knight said.

So, when someone cut away the flag last week, leaving behind only tattered corners, the Knights quickly ordered two more, and said more will be coming to replace any others that might be destroyed.


Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

I live here in Meade, KS (I'm not actually from here). These people are good people and the crap that's been going on in this town is really sad. I have never in my life seen so much hatred. Support the Lakeway! They have the best food in town and the rooms are awesome.

badger 11 years, 9 months ago

Good for them.

I think they're teaching their grandson (and perhaps their neighbors) a good lesson about not giving in to other people's discriminatory hate.

The very fact that even appearing to support gay rights causes this sort of reaction from people is a pretty solid reason to support gay rights.

To Vicky Best:

Madam, if your efforts to keep your kids on the 'straight and narrow' are so tenuous that they can be substantively undermined by someone in town simply flying a multi-colored piece of fabric their grandson gave them, it doesn't say much about your mothering skills. You best hope your kids don't ever get cable TV or Internet access, or leave town to go to college, because if your fragile parental guidance can't even cope with the appearance of support for gay rights, there's no way it could stand up to Cinemax. Y'can't keep kids on a moral path by shutting your little-town eyes and pretending the 'immorality' doesn't exist.

prioress 11 years, 9 months ago

Been to Meade many times; good displays of the Dalton Gang hangouts. This is so sad. Hate, intolerance and bigotry seem to know no limits. Of course, isn't this what the Republican party wants? Read their platform.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

It's actually their son who gave it to them. If anyone wants to get away for a weekend, their Honeymoon/Sweetheart suite is awesome!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 9 months ago

Anyone who wishes to buy and burn their own multi-colored flag is welcome to do so.

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago


Your hypothetical example isn't so hypothetical after all, as the article states that someone came onto their property and shredded the flag. Whether burned, or cut to pieces, it was still destroyed. The article didn't mention that being treated as a hate crime.

Surely you don't find it acceptable for people to go around destroying the property of others. Do you?

I think this couple is setting a wonderful example for their son by not allowing themselves to be intimidated by intolerance and hatred. If I ever get to Meade, they've certainly got my business.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Lakeway_hotel_fraud: You have no idea what you're talking about. JR and Robin are awesome, they're business has actually gone up. You think they only profit from the resturant? It's the hotel that brings in the money and there are plenty of people around the US who are sending them money and support. This town has tons of close minded people.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm not really that worried going downhill with Mr. Knight (which i don't think will happen). I'm supporting equality and rights. Trust me, the political spider is screwed up in Meade already. You know, since you're all mighty and have the dirt on JR, why don't you admit to who you are? You live in Meade, you're gay. That's why you don't admit it. You're too scared to stand up for your own rights. If you support your own rights and live the way you do, why not be proud enough to hoist your own flag?

badger 11 years, 9 months ago


The MYSTERIOUS INSIDER with a conveniently overheard remarkably wooden conversation and veiled threats to "Come clean or be exposed to the WHOLE WORLD!!!!!"

Wow, what are the odds of THAT happening?

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Apparently, this Lakeway_hotel_fraud has posted on many other websites this story about how he/she just happen to overhear this story. Give it up.

Confrontation 11 years, 9 months ago

holygrailale: "I think the people of Meade are absolutely correct in their protest of this multicolored flag.

Anyone with a brain knows that solid earth tones are in this year.

Multicolor prints are so "05".

Now, THAT is funny!

ilovelucy 11 years, 9 months ago

Even if his conversation was disgusting, it's even more disgusting that you recorded his conversation. A private conversation, even if you and date did eavesdrop. Maybe you're out for a little publicity yourself?

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Oh, you don't want to know, offtotheright. Trust me.

westks 11 years, 9 months ago

great to see that another recognizes the difference between the exercise of free speech and the petty theft of private property. Those who dislike the display of the flag on moral grounds, most likely are as morally ambiguous as the next person, but ignore moral issues that require a change on their part. Oh well.. there's no escaping it, as it's the same all over.

mom_of_three 11 years, 9 months ago

I wonder if lakeway hotel fraud is hoping to get noticed by the AP himself to "break" the story, even though he seems "relunctant".

I don't know why we are surprised at the bigotry of a small Kansas town. Douglas was the only county not to approve the gay marriage amendment.
You should have heard the uproar when students wanted to start a Gay-Straight Alliance in Ark City, Kansas. There were actually parents worried that this club would turn kids gay.

badger 11 years, 9 months ago

Rightthinker -

There's an Islamofascist flag?

I guess Eddie Izzard would allow that that makes them a country...

theDudeAbides 11 years, 9 months ago

I guess this would fall under the category of who gives a F...

I didn't know it would come as such a shock that a rural town in KS, MO, NE, OK, would be biased against gays, different races, etc. The world is not perfect. Just be glad there's a little haven in KS called Lawrence. While not perfect, at least there is some tolerance. - - - Except for those flipping bums! J/K

theDudeAbides 11 years, 9 months ago

How could I have forgot about Lakeway....

Go Away! You obviously feel the need to spread this around many different forums, on which you would normally never post. If this were a watergate scandal, you may be on to something. I seriously doubt that anyone cares how/why the flag was hung. The story is about the uproar it has caused.

Let's look at the larger social commentary.....

badger 11 years, 9 months ago

Sure, there, Deep Throat, you're a total martyr to your quest for truth and honesty.

That's why you're posting anonymously on a message board about alleged conversations you claim to have taped covertly without the permission of the speaker, instead of simply calling him up and saying, "Hey, this is so and so, I'm a patron of your establishment, and I heard you having this conversation. I'm bothered by your use of the gay community this way, and if you don't stop using my community for publicity, I'll make my knowledge of that conversation public, using a recording I made on your premises without your permission."

Or maybe the reason you're doing it this way instead of simple direct address of the alleged offender is that the conversation only happened in your head.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

I love the people of Lawrence! You guys rock. Thanks for being supportive.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

I think that you're pretty sleazy. BTW- It also was not mentioned that a preacher stopped by the establishment and talked trash (even to the employees).

There's more on the story. You can even watch the video!

Kodiac 11 years, 9 months ago

Ok Lakeway Fraud, normally I leave this kind of stuff alone but this is just a bunch of crap.

"If I simply wanted to out him I would have gone to the bigger media sources. That's not my desire. I don't want the attention. I do know what I'm talking about."

You have already outed him. You came on a newspaper discussion board and said what he did. It doesn't matter that you didn't go to "bigger media sources", you have already outed him period. What's even worse is that we can't confirm or deny what you are saying. So you are basically telling the public to judge these people based on your alledged evidence. How is that being conservative? How is that doing the "right thing". It is all based on heresay which is basically crap. To me that is extremely unethical and there is nothing "conservative" about it. In fact, the way you did it was egotistical, hateful, and viscious.

If you really wanted Mr. Knight to come clean then you should have spoken to him directly and told him the evidence you had and played the tape for him. Then if they did not happen, then go directly to the media with it. Let the media do whatever it is they do. There was no reason for you to come on here and start spouting off that crap.

badger 11 years, 9 months ago

I can't fault you for not appreciating it at all, if it happened.

Your methods are unnecessarily cloak-and-dagger, your insinuations lack credibility, and honestly if you were really interested in getting someone to own up to something, you'd take it to him and leave it at that instead of playing amateur gossip columnist/confidential source. What you're doing is technically known as creating an excremental disturbance, and more colloquially called 's***-stirring'.

That would be what I fault.

oldgoof 11 years, 9 months ago

lakeway-hotel-fraud sounds like the real fraud to me.

Lakeway, post your friggin tape with attribution or stop your self-centered justification for this supposedly well- intentioned "outing" you are doing.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm sure JR and Robin would love to hear your tape. Give them a call! (620)873-2700.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Don't even get started on the people of the council. I will ask for removal of anything you post. They are related to me and some of them my friends. And by saying that you're just asking for a reason to post lies and hurtful things about them. Just keep it on topic okay?

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

If you said slanderous things and hateful things i can get them removed. This is a public forum, but there are limits to what can be said here. I am not tightly wound up, but i do care for these people.

Kodiac 11 years, 9 months ago

Hey Fraud,

Sorry but you did post on here which is a public forum so if you really want me to keep my nose out of your business then I suggest you shut the f*** up.

Go spread your lies somewhere else d***wad.

ilovelucy 11 years, 9 months ago

Fraud: you are laughable. I'm wondering if you are really gay. If you take that "comment" that you state the owner said regarding hanging the flag, how do you know it wasn't tongue in cheek? You should have confronted the owner, instead of surreptitiously taping conversations and posting on websites.

badger 11 years, 9 months ago

Basically, fraud, there are two words that apply to what you're doing, and neither of them is very nice.

If what you say is untrue, then what you're doing falls in the category of libel, the defamation of another's character in writing with false information. If what you say is true, then what you're doing is blackmail, trying to get someone else to perform an action through threat of revealing negative information about him. I'm not talking about the legal definitions, all you armchair Perry Masons, but about the simple notions of character defamation and blackmail.

The third, fourth, and fifth words for what you're doing apply whether what you say is true or not: 'drama' and 'attention whoring'.

You asked for another option. That other option is, "If this alleged conversation took place, speak to one or more of the people involved in it to let them know you don't find it appropriate, and explain that you strenuously object to their use of your community that way." It involves a lot less dramatic hysteria and "I know something you don't know" on your part, but I'm sure you could survive.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

That's okay, they've got a nice new flag to hang.

Linda Endicott 11 years, 9 months ago

A fraud, pure and simple. Even says so in his screen name.

Ignore the idiot. Maybe it will go crawl back under its rock.

Linda Endicott 6 years, 3 months ago

I changed my avatar at the public library, same as I was yesterday...and I did NOT post the message just above this...I must have forgotten to log out after I was here yesterday...

Though I agree with the sentiment of the message, I do not appreciate someone else using my account...

Linda Endicott 6 years, 3 months ago

Okay, I take it back...sigh...long days and too little sleep...that post was made clear back in Aug., and I simply didn't remember it...I hate it when someone posts something new on an old article...

freudian_slip 11 years, 9 months ago

Agno, think first please. No kidding that we will get some demonstrators eventually. I welcome that. I just want them to be properly prepared. If they come and protest with JR Knight by their side, it will be in vain because townspeople know that JR is full of crap with bad intentions. Their pro-gay demonstration will unfortunately be viewed as a pro-JR Knight one, and it will be shot down. The entire pro-gay sentiment will be nulified by the idiot local smack in the middle of it.

theDudeAbides 11 years, 9 months ago

What interest do you have in how someone makes their money. Let's pretend what you are saying is really true. Does it matter? Is this not the same things that company in every line business does to some degree.

You're not going to change the world on your one man quest to "out" this business man.

Meade, KS - <2,000 population. Very suprising there is any form of "backwoods" thought in that area....

If this company makes money, good for them Viva La Capitalism!

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago


You have to admit that what you are alleging seems pretty far-fetched. Let's review:

According to you, the owner of this hotel, planted firmly in the crimson bible-belt, decided that - of all things- hanging a Pride flag would be a wonderful way to attract business to his hotel. Nevermind that the crimson bible-belt is probably one of the least likely places to attact gay tourists- even if there IS a Pride flag hanging in some dinky town in the middle of nowhere.

He just happened to hatch his plot in his public restaurant, speaking loudly enough for you (a gay person who happens to be living in the same part of the crimson bible-belt- and eating in the same restaurant, even!) to clearly hear the conversation in it's entirety.

Your partner also happened to be with you and have on-hand a high-tech recording device, which he/she used to record evidence of the sinister plot.

When the flag was destroyed, you, as a gay person, became outraged enough by the show of support from across the nation, to shout the truth to anyone who will listen (anonymously, of course), while referring to 'evidence' that you obviously have no intention of sharing.

And you wonder why people are questioning your credibility?

ilovelucy 11 years, 9 months ago

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better.

whistlestop75 11 years, 9 months ago

I live in a small town and there is tolerence as long as it is not thrown in anyone's face...small towns face much bigger issues. Drugs comes to mind as one of the worst...not how anyone chooses a partner. The economies of small towns are all are scarce and most people live in one place and work in another. With school enrollment declining, everyone worries about the future of the small communities. Flying this flag and newspaper attention has probably MADE this an issue for the people to deal with. Now what direction the townspeople choose to go is anyone's guess...I would bet tolerence will win out. As far as city council's go...if you have never put yourself out there and run for office don't assume you know how issues are decided. I spent 4 years on a city council and rarely did we ever have public input unless gossip prevailed, and people became concerned. When that happend and they came to the council to address the issue, it restored my faith in the meant someone cared...

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Just FYI-Not all the people in Meade are like this. Just 80% of them.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Few religious people. Wow, now that's a lie.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

I don't think i need to put that information out there. What i'm saying is there are a lot of church going people here. Mennonites being a large part of them.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Why do you feel the need to point out others problems? Do you hate yourself so much that you need to talk about others faults to make yourself feel better. Seems to me that you envy JR for being brave and putting himself out there, but instead of congradulating him, you're tearing him down. You're just jealous that you don't have the cajones to be proud of who you are.

Ken Miller 11 years, 9 months ago

I have just read the entire thread up to now. I'm not going to take a side, but I have a couple of questions:

lakeway_h_f, are you "out of the closet?" Or is that a silly question given where you live?

To anyone's knowledge, have a significant number of gay patrons stayed at this hotel since the whole flag ruckus broke?

Ultimately, regardless of which side is speaking the truth, will there be a significant impact long-term on Meade, the hotel, or the people who live in and around the town?

Kodiac 11 years, 9 months ago

Hey Fraud,

Now why did you have to go and say that about the Mennonites. My closest friends are Mennonites and it offends me that you would say that about them. I have never known such a peace-loving nonjudgmental group of human beings and for you to go and add your nonsensical unnecessary drivel about their beliefs only demonstrates your ignorance, bigotry and hatred. Either give us the actual evidence or go back under the rock your crawled out from.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Well, let's just say that some people who aren't out yet, probably won't ever be out. Also, there is no way i would raise my daughter out here and have her influenced by some of the people (remember not all of them here are mean and hateful). Also, i'm sure for those who are gay and live here, they might be a little hurt that their friends, family, neighbors feel this strong about this issue.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

That's nice. Now, back to the subject....

atat_at_at_at 11 years, 9 months ago

Hmm, lakeway_h_f reminds me of how john1945 used to sound. Not that I think they are the same person, but their way of taking a personal grudge & airing it out on this board is the same MO.

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago

I'll concede your point about the recording technology, lakeway. I just realized that I have that capability on my phone, as well. I guess I'll need to remember that next time I'm dining out!

I find this statement particularly perplexing:

"You obviously haven't been to/through Meade. The hotel is right on highway 54 so everyone that goes through town sees the flag. It's not intended for Meade tourists. There is barely such a thing."

So who stays at the hotel, if not people from out-of-town? Are you saying that he put the flag up to attract LOCAL residents to his hotel? Good lord, does he rent rooms by the hour?

One other thing, if this conversation DID take place the way you say, you and your partner must be locked pretty deep in the closet. Or do you also allege that this man had this conversation within earshot (and recording range) of two of Meade's few openly gay residents?

Ken Miller 11 years, 9 months ago

lakeway, can you answer my questions posted earlier?

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Can you give the time and date of your visit to the lakeway? Maybe i can give JR and idea of who he's dealing with.

Kodiac 11 years, 9 months ago

Hey DudeAbides,

Ok I'm in agreement with you...

I think we need to hijack this discussion...

Topics anyone....

badger 11 years, 9 months ago

fraud, I've tried to record things with the memo function of my pretty-decent-quality cell phone. I was about four inches from the receiver, and still came out sounding like the teacher from Peanuts.

So, I might tend to agree with meggers that a cell phone good enough to pick up conversation at enough of a distance that the person having the conversation wouldn't realize you were eavesdropping and notice you recording the conversation, and with a one-touch setting (because getting to my 'memo record' function requires at least ten seconds, including picking up the phone) so you could leap into action the very moment you suspected a plan to exploit the gay community was afoot and get enough information to be relevant, recorded clearly enough to be identifiable as the individual in question might not be quite as common a device as you suggest.

Yeah, that's a little higher-tech than the average cell phone, honestly. Because I have an easier time believing you're making this up than I do that a business owner discussed a plan to use the gay community to drum up business, then to use the negative publicity to drum up more business, and discussed all of it in close enough proximity to one of his patrons who might or might not be gay but was definitely local, but not close enough proximity to realize that said local was not only eavesdropping, but recording the conversation.

I'd suggest that people tempted to believe this story use their own cell phones to try and record two willing participants (because it's bad to record people without permission) across a medium-sized room having a conversation in a normal tone of voice. Then ask yourselves, on listening to the recording, how clearly identifiable the people on the recording are.

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago

Agreed. I'll quit, too.


I tried some of that ale. Good stuff. Does the same brewery make any lagers, stouts, or other varieties worth trying?

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

How's the weather in Lawrence? Beautiful town, miss it a lot. I especially love how kind people are and they don't judge you based on how you think, act, live, love, etc.

Kodiac 11 years, 9 months ago

Isn't it amazing how good 93 or 94 can feel after being at 103 or 104 for awhile. While I do like my hot weather, I think I would be ok with the 90s for while....

Kodiac 11 years, 9 months ago

I wonder if this weather lately adds any validity to this global warming scenario. What do you think Devo. Got anything to say about this?....

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Obviously, lakeway can't tell me when he/she was in there so, did this not take place? You know that dining room is pretty big and if you got a taping of a conversation in there I'd be amazed. I know these people, he/she obviously does not. They're not like that.

Ken Miller 11 years, 9 months ago

Perhaps an enterprising reporter should contact the 12-year-old boy to verify the story.

Dixie Jones 11 years, 9 months ago

think i will buy em a bulk of the dang rainbow flags just so i can see you all fight and look like idiots .. HANG THEM FLAGS ! ! ! ! MEADE needs the gawd get lives ppl if the world was all alike wouldnt it be a pretty dull world to live in, so someone or someone is not gay who the H**L cares..... let ppl live it is a free world !

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago

Thanks for the link, holygrailale. I'll definitely need to check out the other varieties.

I didn't realize Monty Python had a boxed set. That sounds incredible. Every now and then I rent a Python DVD, but it seems like most video stores only carry a couple of the more popular MP flicks.

Rest assured, I feel properly humbled to have been typed at by you. :)

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago

Maybe we should all head over to the llama thread. Llamas and rainbows. What a beautiful world.

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago

"Don't stand there gawping like you've never seen the hand of God before."

The Meaning Of Life

Steve Jacob 11 years, 9 months ago

142 comments so far? More important things in the world going on then this :)

theDudeAbides 11 years, 9 months ago

Keep seeing the Holy Grail Ale, I'll have to pick up a couple. Thought it looked neat, but wasn't sure if it was just gimmicky or not. Any ale sounds good when it's this warm out.

I'm glad to see others have taken this very active discussion on to more important topics. I'm headed home for the day, but I'll check in tomorrow for more interesting and light hearted banter.

Good Evening All!

armyguy 11 years, 9 months ago

Wow, what interesting comments. If I had a business in Meade, I think I would go out and fly every type of flag I could get. That way, when the protesters show up I could sale junk to all of them.

Meade could be a colorful town indeed.

Fraud Guy, just go down town Meade and tell them all to start flying every type of flag imaginable. Better yet, perhaps we could get all the stores in Lawrence to fly them all, found a good website to start with, it is even a Kansas company. Looks like they have thousands of flags for sale.

I think I will get the Cocktails Anyone? To hang outside my door.

armyguy 11 years, 9 months ago

dang it, too late for that now, I already ordered to cocktail flag. And speaking of that it is time for one. Have fun with your posts

armyguy 11 years, 9 months ago

If I fly my "Cocktails Anyone?" flag, will the Lawrence chapter of the "Blue Haired League of Carrie Nation Lovers" picket my house? I think their President lives across the street from me.

betti81 11 years, 9 months ago

Okay--so basically this guy JR (or whatever) and two friends hatch an advertising scheme (and you can argue the ethics, but as long as he is not against gay rights, I believe he squeaks by on that test). I say an advertising scheme because IFF (that means if and only if) what Lakeway_h_f says is true, they were trying to attract business from a certain subset of the population (which no offense, is it really that large of a subset?). They, according to L_H_F did not do it maliciously against the town, but "to get all of the gay traffic that comes through town on the highway."

Mr. Knight in no way made the town react the way it did. He did not ask Ms. Best to offer a bigoted quote to the newspaper. And according to the KC Star article, the editor of the local newspaper is the one who garnered all the attention from the media, not Mr. Knight. Fraud do you want to venture that they are in cohoots (sp?)?

I believe the national support is in reaction to how the town has behaved. Maybe Mr. Knight's reason (whether your version or his) would make a difference, but I am going to venture to say it will not. The gay/lesbian population is a legitimate demographic to advertise to and companies do it all the time. Maybe not so aggressively, but they do.

Either way you paint it, some in the population of Meade have reacted with ignorance and bigotry and it saddens me.

I, too grew up in a small town l_h_f and know that open-mindedness is hard to come by. And many confuse "I mind-my-own-business"ness with openmindedness.

Unfortunately, another incident that makes Kansas look bad.

BOE 11 years, 9 months ago

" Posted by lakeway_hotel_fraud on August 7, 2006 at 3:16 p.m.

Maddysmom, to prove that I am indeed from the area and know the mentality of the people, here are a list of local businesses and churches: "


* Walter (to "The Dude" ):

" You want a toe? There are ways, Dude. Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon. With nail polish. " *


lol, somebody alert me when the flag desecrator has been indentified. ;)

BOE 11 years, 9 months ago

Posted by holygrailale on August 7, 2006 at 3:58 p.m.

" BTW, I am now the proud owner of the complete Monty Python's Flying Circus DVD box set!!!!

I own 'em all!!!

16 DVD's 24 continuous hours of Python!!!

You MAY touch me. "


I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy.... ;)

But I am jealous, as I doubt I've seen even half of them.

Just saw part of one last night on PBS that I'd never seen before: Scene from an English courtroom and they're communicating by charades.


hottruckinmama 11 years, 9 months ago

lol. there isn't anything like a small gotta love 'em. sounds an awful lot like my hometown. i'll have to say though if my kid wanted to fly something like that..we'd have to have a talk...and probably a proper burial for the flag. lol.

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago

Betti81 has had the best comment on this board so far...well, at least the best comment relevant to the article, anyway.


You quote Limbaugh and you are thanked. 'Nuff said.

If LHF is truly gay, he or she is probably a Log Cabin Republican. In the closet and trying desperately to keep it that way, both for political reasons and fear of social stigma. And you call others hypocrites.

Oh, and you said that you don't mind gay people, however you dislike feminists. That seems somewhat contradictory. What do you think of a woman who doesn't need a man for self-esteem, money, household duties, sexual pleasure, etc?


If you are truly "out" to your community, in which town do you reside? Or, do you live outside of Meade or any other town and and are "out" to your partner, and to the trees and wildlife? Meade isn't a large town, so if you're truly "out" and gay, folks in Meade would probably know. I'm guessing you aren't "out" at all. That isn't necessarily a criticism, as we all deal with things differently. I've just seen and heard this type of reaction before from people who choose to live a life free from controversy. Now that the Pride flag is flying there and it's caused quite a reaction, you can no longer live in anonymity, as the bigots are on alert for people such as yourself.

Of course, I may have some or all of it all wrong- I did make a few assumptions. If so, Betty81's post still applies.

amhill 11 years, 9 months ago

There is a reason that small town america is dying. The lack of diversity. I am from a small town in Kansas and thankfully I now live in Seattle where for the most part people are accepted. and not taught bigitory.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm lost on this one. Were some posts deleted? Why all the references to LHF?

acg 11 years, 9 months ago

They booted him permanently IHOVO, so with him went all of his posts. It's a shame, too, because his conspiracy theory was quite amusing.

badger 11 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, looks like a poster got kicked. He had Whole Lots of Ugly to spread around, and the last post I saw was just abusive name-calling, so it looks like LJW pulled him for not behaving himself.

Course, now this discussion makes no sense, but the bit about bears and weather probably wouldn't have anyway...


Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Wow. So much happened while i was away. Glad to see that idiot is outta here.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

I did a web search and found some remarks on the issue at, but now I can't find my way back to them. It sounded like they were Meade residents and they weren't all very positive about the hotel person. If anyone can find it again, please post a link. I'll keep looking. By the way, it appears the website I mentioned is a gay site, so don't go there if you are easily offended (it's not porn though).

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

There has been a woman in town who logs onto gay sites and poses as a man. Then she posts horrible things about the Lakeway. They found out it was her after she gave out some evidence that identified her.

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago


Feminism has nothing to do with hating men. It is about empowering women. You must be terribly insecure to find that concept so disturbing.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Without naming names, Maddysmom, can you elaborate at all on what "role" this person holds in the community that posed as a man? Curious as to what prompted this person to do this.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

From what i hear, she's friends with the mayor.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Posted by Maddysmom (anonymous) on August 8, 2006 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

From what i hear, she's friends with the mayor.

Has anyone confronted this person and asked why she did this?

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago


There are quite a few women who wouldn't be classified as feminist by most standards, but they tend to marginilize men and exploit them to suit their personal agendas. Similarly, there are many men who don't hate women, but they tend to trivialize and take a more patronizing attitude towards women. It goes both ways.

People are individuals and both genders behave badly at times. In any case, not that I assumed otherwise, but I'm glad to read that you don't hate women. I'm sure the women in your life are pleased about that, as well.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

This is going to sound really weird, but in this town, you can't do that. This town is too messed up to discuss on this forum. I can't say more than that because if someone figured out who i was and who my family was, then i would be just as screwed as JR and Robin. I have a daughter to protect.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Since you know what your town is like, how do you think they will resolve this hotel & flag issue? What will happen to JR & Robin and their business? Will this sink them?

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Well, this isn't my town. I married someone from here. It's a big difference to me. But, they are hoping (JR & Robin) for someone to buy them out. The price is pretty high and as of right now, their business is doing pretty good, considering. I think that eventually, people will get tired and just say, "Who cares?!" but like i said, i'm not from here originally. This is a different breed of people.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Sounds like there must be a lot of behind the scenes bickering and issues within the community. Do JR & Robin support some unpopular opinions or people that would cause people to react to them this way? Is the flag issue a culmination of other things?

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

No, it's simply what they said. They got the gift from their son. He sent it to them because it reminded him of Dorothy and being "somewhere over the rainbow". There are on going issues with the city council, but that's another thing. Now that the flag has caused an uproar, they are going to stand their ground an not be intimidated by people. I totally respect them and agree with how they feel.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Sounds like the typical "big politics" in a "small town". I'm sure things get magnified (good and bad) when you are in a small town and things are taken more personally by everyone.

How did you end up with someone there? I'm sure there must not be any singles bars there.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Ha ha! It's a dry county. Anyways, I met my husband in Lawrence. He's from there. We're trying to get on our feet and staying with family.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Wow, i love the way you just spoke about your wife rightthinker.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Dry county. Sounds boring, or at least sounds like good conditions for drunk driving from a neighboring non-dry county.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

well, i don't think they have many drunk driving issues around here. That's out there with the city folk. Out there in the crazy town o' Lawrence. (just kidding). I've got total cabin fever in this town. I can't wait to be out of here. Anyone got $9,000 just laying around? :)

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Did you check out that video i put on here yesterday?

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago


How come you aren't staying with family in Lawrence if that is where your husband is from? Is that where you will be going when you have all of your escape money?

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago


Actually, I wasn't being patronizing at all. I'm pleased for you that your wife is such a strong, capable woman and that you obviously have a great deal of respect for her.

In addition to being proud of your wife, I would think you would also be proud of the brave women who paved the way for her, including feminists.

I'm not sure who said this, but it seems fitting for this conversation:

"Well behaved women rarely make history."

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm sorry i meant to say he's from here. We met in Lawrence. No, we'll be going somewhere else in Kansas where the money is flowin. We want to get a house and the only way we can do that is to stay here, pay off our debts and then move.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Nevermind, I went back up and found it. Missed it the first time through.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Pretty interesting. Not like you didn't already know the story.

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, that video pretty much says what the article says. It just adds the visual of who it is.

whistlestop75 11 years, 9 months ago

I posted yesterday on this issue...can't believe you are all still think what energy Meade would have if you all lived there...I would bet it would not be a dry county and the town would be thriving with or without a Rainbow Flag!

hip_gma 11 years, 9 months ago

Sounds like the debate over one of the teletubbies a while back. Pretty sad when EVERYTHING these days seems to cause a debate. Good ole days are gone.

whistlestop75 11 years, 9 months ago

conservativeman and rightthinker... LMAO...I hope Mama didn't give you that complex...have you ever considered before the 19th ammendment men could beat their wives to "keep them in line"...if a few died as a result of beatings...who cared? Just replace them with a "widow" lady to take care of the kids or even make a deal with the man down the street to marry his 14 year old. Women stepped up to demand the right to vote for their own protection. Personal responsibility was what it was all about...get a with only happened a few generations ago...

willie_wildcat 11 years, 9 months ago

Whistlestop- Doesn't the rantings of conman remind you of Kay O'Connor?

whistlestop75 11 years, 9 months ago

Indeed...and the common sense of Kansans spoke volumes in her

whistlestop75 11 years, 9 months ago

LMAO again...dream on. You want to believe the divorce rate is because women stepped out of the role of the Bible??? Give me a break...Jesus's choice in whom to reveal that He had risen was NOT a was a woman...a woman he MUST have had faith in to be the first PREACHER on earth and who the world looked down as a fallen woman because she did NOT follow the written word as to what women should be...using the Bible is such a cop out...Jesus must have thought women more just took man over 19 hundred years to catch on...

BOE 11 years, 9 months ago

" This Tali-fascist moment was brought to you by conservativeman on August 8, 2006 at 4:09 p.m.


This crowd doesn't get the ramifications of the 19th Amendment. Bad Amendment that should be repealed! "


Oh yeah, this one is definitely a keeper.

LOL, "this crowd".

conman has a "You can't handle the truth!" moment, moons the entire female population of the planet earth , and explains that his vitriolic hatred for the U.S. is really based in its upholding of women's rights...

...and bags a trifecta. Congrats!

whistlestop75 11 years, 9 months ago

conservativeman...I hope you have a good woman that is quietly leading you to think that you are right...I hope on that pedestal you have placed the bankbook in her hands...since of course you make the living...and this is the duty of the homemaker, making sure the household is run smoothly...of course..being the man you are, you do go over the finances to make sure she understands basic mathmatics, but when the boom is lowered...and the 'other' bank account is used...on your return from work the household is empty of all that makes it a home, she might share with you being on a pedestal is a lonely place to be...having an equal to share the day is really what every man or woman wants...

whistlestop75 11 years, 9 months ago

Conservativeman...I have been married for 31 years...and truth be told the only time we ever had problems was when we forgot to respect the other in opinions OR decisions...we have maintained a partnership and not put the other on the pedestal because it is a long way to fall and a heavy load to carry in life. My core of friends are a mixture of long marriage and of second marriages and we are there for them...we are blessed in this life. We raised our 3 children as christians and we educated them at Kansas day if we are lucky, we will be able to see the next generation together and spread the love...I wish you happiness as well...

BOE 11 years, 9 months ago

" conservativeman on August 8, 2006 at 6:11 p.m. BOE,

You'd be surprised how many woman want to be cared for and about in a Biblical context. As for your hatred of American values and anti-Christian ranting I'll take it as an affirmation that I'm right.

Thanks, Conservativeman "


Don't waste your time projecting your "hatred of American values and anti-Christian ranting" lies on others, your dishonesty is well known to readers of the LJW comments section.

Start a petition to repeal the 19th Amendment to find out how mainstream a notion that is... in either of the majority parties.

Anyone who believes the fantasy that denial of suffrage for women would translate to more security for women, is no student of history. Just a person with a fantasy.

American values has included embracing women's suffrage longer than you've been alive and will continue, long after you're gone.

- " Woman (sic) want security over liberty. " -

LOL, nice slap in the face to ALL "woman's".

But for those women who share your fantasy that loss of suffrage = more security, they're already free to abstain from voting.

Your notion that a women's right to vote should be repealed is far more in line with mainline Taliban values than those of American Christians.

No Thanks,


kg52 11 years, 9 months ago

I vote for the pretty rainbow flag. I live in Topeka and we have to put up with the Phelps fiasco (as does the rest of the world)- I think they could use a little color in their lives - I would be more than happy to buy them the flag! Better Yet I would like to trade them for the Knight's and their sweet little motel! I would certainly feel sorry for Meade, though I don't believe I have had the pleasure of visiting there in the past.

meggers 11 years, 9 months ago

"My problem is with the "militant feminist" as you term them who, like how the far-left operate on a strict agenda of propaganda and that agenda includes but is not limited to repeating the mantra that the male is inconsequential, unnecessary and strive to minimalize the role of men as fathers and husbands."


So where exactly are all of these "militant feminists" that are out to destroy the husbands and fathers of our society?

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

If anyone wants to buy a Bed & Breakfast or knows someone who does, let me know. I know their asking price and can hook you up!

trinity 11 years, 9 months ago

i cannot believe this thread is still happening.

i'm going to go bake a pie, now.

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

No, they're not throwing in the towel. They're going to fight this, but in the mean time it is for sale. I don't think anyone around here could afford the price though.

staff04 11 years, 9 months ago

hga- Your 9:55 post spells out exactly the kind of hypocritical liar conservativeman is.

His reply confirms it.

b_minus_time_traveler 11 years, 9 months ago

I'm from Meade -- grew up there, went to high school there, blah blah blah. AND I'm gay. So, this really saddens me. However, the city of Meade is having major problems, and the Lakeway owner has unfortunately made many "enemies" in the town. This whole thing started when the owner of the Meade County News (who has her own issues with the Lakeway owner) took a picture of the flag for the newspaper and printed something to the effect of "Do you know what this sign means?" The owner of the newspaper is a gossip-monger who is always ready to strike when it comes to controversy (believe me -- I used to work for her). The man interviewed by the Kansas City News channel is, according to my sources, one of the craziest, unreliable people in town. Most people in Meade aren't concerned in the least and just want to live their lives without controversy. So, if you want someone to blame, blame the Meade County News newspaper. Send your comments there, if you can.

This really concerns me though, for two reasons. One, I've never really been ashamed of Meade until now, and as a gay man, it saddens me. Two, the majority of the people in Meade are really disturbed by the undue attention all this hoopla from the gossip-fueled owner of the newspaper, and that's just sad on many levels. Don't hate the town of Meade, peeps. Feel free, though, to dislike the "news" of the town. Vocally.

mztrendy 11 years, 9 months ago

so am I completely missing something, or are the lakeway fraud guys posts completely gone now like they never existed?

ttongie 11 years, 9 months ago

okay My comment has nothing to do with this collum but i went to the most active in hopes of a response to a question i have so here it is Where or who do u call when u need to make a complaint about underage drinking in a certain lawrence bar?

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

I think that guy (b_minus) is a good guy. He's not trash talking the lakeway anyway (like this discussion has anything to do with that anymore).

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

They threw a brick through the window today. One said "Fag" and the other said "Get out of town". Don't know if anyone is reading this anymore.

acg 11 years, 9 months ago

You've got to be kidding me that this thread is still going on. Wow, I can't believe there's that much to say about a topic that's as unimportant as this one. I'm impressed you guys, really!

Maddysmom 11 years, 9 months ago

Thanks alot for tha comment acg. I didn't think anyone was talking about this still. I thought i'd just say something. Didn't really expect a response. People know who did it, but know one will say.

chucknoblet 11 years, 9 months ago

Anyone wanna share gas money with me to drive out together to the Lakeway and stay for a night or two? We can drive my car, but it would help to pool gas money. Heck, if I can find 3 people, we can split the cost 4 ways!

ksshadowwalker 11 years, 9 months ago

Man it would just freak the people of meade out totally if they only knew how many Wiccans and Pagens lived in that little town of theirs wouldnt it! You people just need to grow up and live in the real world called the 21st century and get out of the 19th century! They did this in salem and people were burned at the stake for thier beliefs! Beside why would a person celibrate a holiday about back shooting, bank robbers???? Meade has witches, people who play with ouija boards, people who are gay and not gay! Bikers, rednecks who are really showing their stuff here! Or as they would say where I come from! Just a bunch of crackers show thier intelligence!!! People of Meade grow the f***UP!!! People are in for a real rude awakening in the near future!!!

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Maddysmom - do you know if it was kids that threw the bricks, or was it adults? If it was adults, was it just some immature, small minded people or local professionals who should be bigger people? Just curious.

ksshadowwalker - why bring wiccens and witchcraft into this? Have you researched the Salem witch trials before? Burned for their beliefs, huh? How about the lies of the children?

I like how you comment on people who stereotype one group of people and then follow it up by doing the same thing towards two other groups.

Let's summarize ksshadowalkers post - 1) bring up a totally irrelevant topic; 2) bash Meade people without knowing them or the whole story; 3) criticize people for being small minded; and then 4) turn around and be small minded throughout your post.

You have gained alot of credibility with me today ksshadowwalker. Not!

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

So, now I hear that Fred Phelps has planned a trip to Meade. For those of you who are not familiar with Phelps, he is a severely anti-gay freak show and has no ties to Meade. His presence in Meade, if he shows up, will be to further his own personal agenda and not by the request of the Meade community. The beliefs and opinions of Fred Phelps are not those of the general population of Meade. Please keep that in mind.

as_I_live_and_breathe 11 years, 9 months ago

Vicky Best: says.... "It's hard enough to keep your kids on the straight and narrow without outside influences like that," she complains. "We stay in a small town to stay away from the crap like that that's happening in big cities," she said, calling homosexuality "biblically wrong."

I thought most people moved to small towns to set up meth labs????? and to be able to perform animal sacrifices to pagan gods....mmmm guess I better cancel my realtor.

I think judgement and hate is also "bibically wrong" but I could be reading the wrong bible....

badger 11 years, 9 months ago

alphabitch said:

"Okay - I've been lurking but now I gotta talk. I know this is off subject but as a practicing Wiccan - I have to clear the air. Yes, valid opinions, the Salem Witch trials did happen because of a combination of lying children and then mass hysteria. The people killed were not a)Wiccans or b)burnt at the stake. They were hung or pressed between stones. "

Thank you for posting this, because while it's very important to remember that people died as a result of public fears about witchcraft, it's also important to get the facts about it right. The people killed in Salem died because their neighbors were hysterical and afraid, not because of anything they did or didn't do, and not because they were witches.

The corollary to this with regard to homosexuality is when people are discriminated against or assaulted (sadly, I've seen this happen and it made me sad) simply for supporting gay rights, because it was assumed they were gay and some folks felt it was perfectly OK to punch a gay person in the face to 'teach him a lesson' about morality. One of the hazards of supporting gay rights is that whether you're gay or not, it's often assumed by hysterical and frightened people that if you are an advocate for equality and fair treatment for people regardless of sexual orientation, it's as solid a condemnation against you to some people as, "I saw Goody Wintrop cavorting with the Beast in the wood behind the mill" was a few hundred years ago.

The good news is that we've progressed from drowning, hanging, or pressing people we're afraid of to terminating employment, taking away your kids to become wards of the state, or usually non-fatal assault.

Tychoman 11 years, 9 months ago

This is still going on? I thought we were finished with this.

Wilbur_Nether 11 years, 9 months ago

badger badged that "The people killed in Salem died because their neighbors were hysterical and afraid, not because of anything they did or didn't do, and not because they were witches." Not to parse things too finely, but I would suggest they died regardless of what they did/didn't do or whether they were witches. However, they were killed because they were believed to engage in witchcraft and they were believed to be witches. The hysterical fear to which you refer clouded judgement and caused the offenders to jump to conclusions and ignore contrary evidence.

as_I_live_and_breathe 11 years, 9 months ago

some of them were killed because they had land that people in power wanted and because of repressed sexual tension......

as_I_live_and_breathe 11 years, 9 months ago

I wonder what the people like Vicky Best do when the sun comes out after a rainstorm???? throw the kids in the basement and swing a chicken around her head to ward off the evil gay rainbow?????

Wilbur_Nether 11 years, 9 months ago

Angels and ministers of grace defend us from junior social anthropologists!

oldgranny 11 years, 9 months ago

For God sakes why did they turn the rainbow into a gay pride thing. I used to like rainbows...

i_have_only_valid_opinions 11 years, 9 months ago

Are you still around Maddysmom? Just curious if there have been any new happenings down there in Meade?

as_I_live_and_breathe 11 years, 9 months ago

Agnostic??? the cowardly lion?? was??? What are you saying? GAY!!! Now that I think of it.... he did enjoy that trip thru the emerald city beautyshop WAAAYYYY too much!

as for phreddy, I like to get him going too! I think syphiliss has eaten part of his brain but he can truly exemplify a 'conniptions fit.

Too bad we can't make all dangerously insane people carry signs.... sure make it easier to aviod them. But Kansas isn't the only place that has hate prechers.... I saw a bunch from Texas once. Same signs....same insanity. It must be a franchise.

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