Archive for Monday, April 3, 2006

Wittig sentenced to 18 years for looting Westar

April 3, 2006, 2:33 p.m. Updated April 3, 2006, 3:36 p.m.


— A federal judge today sentenced former Westar Energy Inc. head David Wittig to 18 years in prison for looting the company.

U.S. District Judge Julie Robinson sentenced Wittig's co-defendant, Douglas Lake, the former executive vice president of Westar, to 15 years in prison. Wittig and Lake also were ordered to pay fines of $5 million each, in addition to millions of dollars in restitution.

Wittig, Westar's former president, chairman and chief executive officer, and Lake, were found guilty Sept. 12 of conspiracy, wire fraud, money laundering and circumventing internal controls during their tenures at Topeka-based Westar, the largest electric utility in Kansas. Wittig, 50, was convicted of 39 counts; Lake, 55, was convicted of 30 counts and acquitted of nine.

Prosecutors said the men, who were forced out of Westar in late 2002, engaged in a number of schemes aimed at inflating their compensation and hiding it from the company's board of directors and shareholders.

The U.S. Probation Office had recommended life in prison for both men, but attorneys for both defendants argued their clients' crimes were serious enough to warrant that sentence.

Also Monday, Robinson ordered Wittig to pay $14.5 million in restitution and Lake to pay $2.785 million.

However, a jury already had ordered the former executives to forfeit some of that money, as well as other cash and assets, which jurors had determined were linked to the defendants' crimes.


cutny 11 years, 7 months ago

Nice. I want to see them twist in the wind.

Kookamooka 11 years, 7 months ago

Yep, that's a punishment to fit the crime. He will have to sell his house and that will eat him up.

badger 11 years, 7 months ago

Life would have been nice. However, I appreciate the fiscal hit they're taking more than any amount of jail time. That's a total of almost 30 million in fines and restitution.

Provided, of course, that they actually pay it.

Godot 11 years, 7 months ago

They'll show up in a few years as consultants for big corporations on how to spot CEO fraud.

kmat 11 years, 7 months ago

I can tell from reading these posts that none of you have any clue about how this case and Wittig have been treated. I am personal friends with the family and have been for years.

Did anyone here think about how much money it will cost to house David for 18 years in federal prison? We'll be paying $40,000++++ for every year he is incarcerated. Why are we paying to lock him up for a white color crime? There are rapists and murderers that get lesser sentences. How smart are those of you that think he should sit in prison for life when dangerous prisoners are set free after serving very light terms. You obviously have your morals all screwed up.

There seems to be a lot of vengence towards Wittig. I think many of you need to chill and take a good look at your own life.

I must add that the comments about the fiscal hit and how you are enjoying what it's costing them. Well, considering that he worked his butt off to earn the money he had (what he was making at WR was nothing compared to what he made before coming back to KS). He never came to KS to make money, he came back because of family.

I think many of you need to remember that the good book says god will judge, that it's not your place to do so. You may not believe it, but David is a very good, religious person. Did you spend your Thanksgiving serving meals to the needy? I doubt so, but that's how he spent his. He was (is) a very charitable guy, but all of you that just read junk in the paper have no idea what the family is like. You should keep your snide comments to yourselves unless you are truely informed. Do you want to be judged based off a few articles in a paper?

Take a good look at all the other white color scandals (Abramoff, Lay, etc...) and tell me why David should be sitting in prison for 18 years? Do some real research into this case to see the bias.

Linda Aikins 11 years, 7 months ago

KMAT - they get absolutely no sympathy from me. And I doubt that Christians will appreciate you saying he's a good religious man. Stealing, as I recall, is not a good thing to do.

I suggest you not try to portray your friends as caring and loving people - not now that we have our rates hiked because of their kindness.

Good grief.

terrapin2 11 years, 7 months ago

To The Original Bob This is a federal sentence so there isn't any chance for early parole. The best they can do to reduce their sentences is for good behavior which could shave off a year or two from each of their sentences. It's really a shame that such gifted minds will be wasted in prison for all of those years instead of having them do some kind of community service.

My heart goes out to his two boys who won't have their father around for the rest of their formative years.

As for the rest of you, regardless of what they did or didn't do at Westar, 18/15 yrs in prison for this is way too long!

short_one 11 years, 7 months ago

kmat-get a life. I am sure he is a lovely person but he stole from the public--millions and millions of dollars to live his fancy life. god-fearing--I doubt it. Loving of the "warm fuzzy feeling" he got from acting like a god-fearing do-gooder? probably so. No, he isn't a murderer but that doesn't mean he should have less time--it simply means sentences are generally too light for murders.

adky 11 years, 7 months ago

The whole reason for this case is jealousy. Just because a bunch of lawyers can't make the money these guys made, they find some way of prosecuting them. They were in charge of this company so they have the right to spend its money as they choose. If that includes buying themselves a mansion, so be it. If you don't like it, get your own company!

mom_of_three 11 years, 7 months ago

When Jim Bakker was convicted (about the same charges, but less money and property were involved), he was sentenced to 45 years, which was overturned and reduced to 18. He was released after 5 for good behavior.

The sentence of Wittig and his buddy isn't unusual.

bankboy119 11 years, 7 months ago

Actually adky embezzlement is a crime. Nice try though.

$40,000x18 = $720,000 so he is paying back more than enough to incarcerate him.

Speaking of which, prisoners should be doing work to pay for their sentences, and why not fine them at least part of what it would cost to house them? They shouldn't get a free stay.

kmat 11 years, 7 months ago

Short one that says I need to get a life, I say the same to you. I have a very nice life, thank you very much! He didn't steal to live a fancy life. He's had a fancy life for decades. Like I said, he was back in KS for his family.

I say again, that many of you have NO CLUE about this case. Jealosy is correct. Everything they did that was supposedly illegal was approved by the board. There are a lot of people on this post just showing their ignorance. You need to investigate who started this case, then it will all become clear. There have been some long time grudges that came into play in this case. Those of you that have just read some articles in the biased little LJW have no clue. Do some reading beyond these local little papers.

Your rates didn't go up because of this case. WR isn't having to pay any of the legal fees and are getting money back. WR has been a rip off company since before Wittig was there. This case is being used as an excuse for raising your rates. Your rates are being raised for many other reasons.

You shouldn't throw stones unless (1) you know what you are talking about and are more educated than just reading some newspaper articles, (2) you are ready to have some thrown back at you. Anyone that thinks they are a good christian and is happy that Wittig will sit in prison for 18 years is a hypocrit.

whatdoiknow 11 years, 7 months ago

Kmat-- I think it is dangerous to start weighing the cost of prison with the crime. Are we trying to dole out justice, or get out of jail free cards if you are not a minority convicted of a some kind of assalt. I personally think white collar criminals and their crimes are every bit as destructive to our society as the others...easier to stomach, perhaps, but equally destructive.

sane 11 years, 7 months ago

kmat - as a former employee of the company that Wittig looted, I can tell you that he didn't care at all for the employees -- his only thoughts were of himself and how he could get more power and money. He presented himself as better than the other employees with his lavish office with private exterior entrance and private office dining area (just to name a few of the rate payer provided amenities). He regarded and treated the employees as "overhead" -- not feeling any emotion when he sumarily did away with jobs and positions, just to reduce salary expenses so he could increase his wealth!

I do feel sorry for his sons, but, somehow I feel they are better off without his influence.

adky 11 years, 7 months ago

I guess all those posting here lead perfect law abiding lives. Nobody here "forgotten" about their internet purchases and not declared the sales tax on their KS State Tax returns? Thought so. It's the same level of crime, just that Wittig and Lake had more money to play with. And that is the important bit. We would, and most of us do, break the rules, but when one of our superiors does it better than us we all get indignant. As I said before, you are all just jealous you didn't have the chance to do the same.

kmat 11 years, 7 months ago

Sane - I'm sorry you are a little person in the big chain of a corporate company. If you don't wanted to be considered as overhead, don't work for a larger corporation. Do you think any CEO's of any large companies consider employees as anything but overhead? NO! That's the business world. I work in big business, and to be honest I can't tell you the names of all in my office. The CEO's job isn't to worry about emotion. If emotions were all that mattered in business, then no business would be successful.

To say his sons are better off without him just shows what kind of person you are. You may not like Wittig or things he has done, but that comment is so far below the belt it makes me ill. His sons are great children because they have been raised by great parents.

If I walk down the hall to my boss' office (who is the CEO), it's a hell of a lot nicer than mine and should be since he is THE CEO!!! Until you work in higher management, you have no clue how much more work they really do than the average employee. Those of us in upper management don't work until 5:00 and go home. We stay late, we work at night, we work weekends - just like David did. Once again, none of you know the family, so you have no room to speak.

Yes, his office was elaborate, BUT THE BOARD APPROVED EVERYTHING HE DID!!!!!!! YOU HAVE AN ISSUE, TAKE IT UP WITH THE BOARD MEMBERS THAT APPROVED ALL HIS ACTIONS. Why not ask them why they still use all these "elaborate" things he had in the offices? Why haven't they sold any of it? Why did they sign off on everything he did?

Bruce Bertsch 11 years, 7 months ago

Read the charges again KMAT. He hid compensation from the board. He raided a public company for his own benefit. You say rates didn't go up...what about the Protection One fiasco? What about trying to restructure the company so that he could sell the assets and leave the Kansas ratepayers with all the debt? Your ringing endorsements are hollow compared to havoc he wreaked on stockholders and customers.

As any analyst would tell you, KP&L and KG&E, now Westar, were actually well run for small utilities before Wittig and crew. They were cash cows...and we know where the cash went.

Godot 11 years, 7 months ago

adky, you will never convince me that theft should be legal.

Linda Aikins 11 years, 7 months ago

KMAT - give us some places to go to investigate. The case is solved - you can tell the secrets, if you know them. We like to have links to facts, when someone insults our intelligence or attacks our beliefs with no backup other than "I know them and they are good people." Their actions seem to present otherwise.

badger 11 years, 7 months ago

kmat - it was white collar crime, not white color crime. Less of a racial connotation there.

You know, all issues of jealousy and serving Thanksgiving dinner to the homeless aside, a jury found them guilty of fraud and embezzlement and stealing. S T E A L I N G. Being crooks. So they had money beforehand. That just makes the fact that they're crooks (criminals, fraud perpetrators, liars, thieves, embezzlers, no better than a two-bit burglar ripping off TV sets from little old ladies) even worse.

I can have a little sympathy in my heart for people who stole because they needed the money. Apparently your good buddy the nice Christian criminal stole for no real reason other than just to be a thief.

So, yeah, perhaps you think that what he is, is a good Christian with a bad rap going to jail for far too long to serve out his sentence in some terrible horrible minimum security country club of a prison. I think he's a crook, a no good dirty scoundrel and now he can be a convicted felon too.

White collar crime is horribly detrimental to our society. In a Kansas utility, because the KCC blanaces regulations to ensure that the utility company stays solvent and the customers are protected, the loss of that money, which was not just pure profit but money that would have been put back in to affect the balance of how future regulations are set up. In other words, the money they stole is money that would have been used to potentially lower rates, or hedge against future bad seasons, or replace outdated equipment, or do any number of other things that could have made the utility more profitable, and thus more friendly to the consumers.

Did Westar apply for a rate increase during Wittig's tenure? Did they get one? If they did, then that rate increase was directly affected by the fraud, conspiracy, embezzlement, and money laundering for which they were convicted, and are now convicted felons.

Good, fine, upstanding Christian felons, but nonetheless someone else will be serving them their Thanksgiving dinner for a while.

theifoncross 11 years, 7 months ago

Sympathy is great, I am a friend of the devil myself! I just don't understand, they already had tons of money? but decided to steel anyway? Rember that pharmacist in KC who diluted peoples chemotherapy drugs for the money. I think he did it for his church, they even named it after him until he got caught. MAybe as a man of god he could lead by example. i think these white colar types would get the message if we cruicifed them both next to other thiefs. Then feed there followers to the lions. That would cleanse us and them for all our sins and short comings in life. or maybe cook them up and feed them to the homeless and pour. that way they could serve both god and man

adky 11 years, 7 months ago

They were convicted, but I would challenge that they were not convicted by a jury of their peers. They are far better people than any of us. It is human nature to be jealous and to try to pull down those more successful than ourselves. This is exactly what happened here.

It's illuminating that the talk here is of the guy having a better office or a separate entrance. What has that to do with the case? Everything. You all hate him because he got the corner office and you didn't!

Linda Aikins 11 years, 7 months ago

oh my goodness.

Are these April Fools posts, a little late? Better people than any of us?

Not me adky. And I truly resent that implication.

Godot 11 years, 7 months ago

adky has to be playing the devil's advocate, right?

adky 11 years, 7 months ago

Gootsie - I guess you are one of those ultra liberal "Everyone's Equal" types. Well in the real world people are judged by society and given a value. Usually the way society demonstrates this value is by the amount of money they are willing to pay somebody to provide the service for which they are valued. These guys had made lots of money before they were at Westar and society had rewarded them accordingly. Society, not me, had said they are better than us.

bankboy119 11 years, 7 months ago

Well I'm going to go out on a limb and guess adky is for legalizing the drugs he/she has been taking while responding to these posts.

Here's a pretty simple equation adky

more money =/= better person.

devobrun 11 years, 7 months ago

Kristofferson said: "when you got nothin you got nothin' to loose."

The oposite of this statement is also true. Thus, rich people like W & L are usually conservative with their behavior.

Well, they were not. They had more, so they lost more. Including houses, kids, wives, careers. They were playing with their lives and they were wrong. They pay the price.

Would that they stand as examples for the many other execs who are tempted to break the law.

Dan Edwards 11 years, 7 months ago

The "beauty" of white collar crime is that it is so palatable. It's not stealing some old lady's purse or jacking someone's car. No, to the general public it just appears harmless and victimless.

But that misperception is exactly why the penalties need to be harsh. Because the guy that loots 100,000 people of $10 has a lot more to gain than the guy getting a $5 bill from grandma's bag.

Punishment serves to "rehabilitate" the criminal but also to deter others from committing the same crime. Giving Wittig a slap on the wrist not only deprives him of the opportunity to learn a lesson from his egregious "mistake", it tells the next corrupt CEO that there is that much less risk for him to attempt a similar "mistake".

I am not happy that Wittig is going to jail. In fact, I feel quite sorry for the mess that he has caused himself and his family. But that sympathy in no way means his sentence and punishment were not appropriate. After all, I feel sorry for the poor bloke who stole the granny's purse to support his habit too--doesn't mean I don't think he should pay for his crime.

But he stole $5 and Wittig stole millions. Who should have the harsher sentence?

rhd99 11 years, 7 months ago

SERVES YOU RIGHT, WITLESS WONDER WITTIG! Lake, go jump in a lake yourself. You guys did the crime, DO THE TIME! As far as Jim Haines & Westar goes, CANCEL your rate increases, you got your money.

moveforward 11 years, 7 months ago

kmat - you are splitting hairs. What wittig did was absolutely wrong and both you and he know that. I realize that good people do bad things, but this was way wrong. The only difference between wittig and Ken Lay is that wittig was stopped before thousand of families lost their life savings. Your vision is skewed by your friendship.

I am not sure that 18 years is enough - since he will likely serve only a portion of that in light security.

And by the way - I have done my research - well beyond just reading the papers.

compmd 11 years, 7 months ago

I do hereby award kmat the 2006 Chewbacca Defense of the Year Award, with adky a close runner-up. :)

Godot 11 years, 7 months ago

Devobrun is trying to sustain the myth that all rich people are Republicans.

Here are a few wealthy Democrats (just a few of them): The entire Kennedy family John Kerry, via his wife, Teresa Heinz (although she got her money from her dead Republican husband, so I'm not sure this counts) Bill and Hillary Clinton and their close friend and felon, Mark Rich The Roosevelts Peter Allen Nearly all Hollywood power (I almost said "intelligentsia," until I realized that most of them barely graduated high school) Michael Moore (another college dropout) Jon Corzine Herb Kohl Nancy Pelosi Jay Rockefeller Jane Harmon Stan Greenburg and, of course, the father of the hedge fund, one of the biggest mutual fund scams going, George Soros.

I've run out of room.

Not that being rich is a bad thing.

Fishman 11 years, 7 months ago

I have to side with KMAT here. I know the family, albeit only a business level. The entire family, including David have been nothing but good people. I know it is a large amount of money that was involved, but I can say with some certainty that most on this list have been perfect. Uh, I probably owe those internet taxes someone wrote about myself. Same thing, a wrong is a wrong from what I remember. I do think there is most likely some jealousy that is at play here. David Wittig didn't need the money when he came to Westar. As far as his two boys are concerned, I'm sure they'd be better having their dad around, even if he may not happen to be perfect. The guy definitely did something right before coming to Westar. As far as Mr Lake is concerned, I know about as much about him as I know about what the papers say about Brad Pitt, and Angelina Jolie, and there's the point. How can I say something about something I really don't know much about.

j_hawk04 11 years, 7 months ago

Actually Kmat, the customers rates in the Northern region did go up due to this scandal....After Westar was forced by the KCC to sell off K-Gas, the KCC informed Westar they were going to go through a rate case... To keep a long story short, the Northern regions rates increased and the Southern regions rates decreased...Westar came out 3 million in the hole. On a side note about our buddy David Wittig... When the board members seats were up for vote, Mr. Wittig went through (illegally) the votes, seeing who voted for who, and some employees were fired if an they had not voted for who he wanted...

Godot 11 years, 7 months ago

First time, ever, I agree with Observer. Except for the use of the word, "minions." Really trite.

Godot 11 years, 7 months ago

Every time I read that word I conjure up visions of the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz, and the music repeats in my du de du de dooo dooo, de du de du de dooo dooo.....

Bubarubu 11 years, 7 months ago

"David Wittig didn't need the money when he came to Westar. "

I keep seeing this comment, which would imply that he stole it for sport, which would be even less defensible. At least if he were stealing it to feed his family I could excuse it.

In the meantime, the idea that a person's value is judged by a person's salary is miserable. On the one hand we have someone defending Wittig by saying he is a Christian, on the other a person who defends him by saying he was better than we were because he was paid more. Ooooook.... I suppose since he won't be getting paid much in prison, I'm better than he is now, right?

badger 11 years, 7 months ago

Tis the day for strange bedfellows.

I must agree with bankboy:

"more money =/= better person."

Yeah, I guess I am one of those 'Everyone is Equal' naive liberals on this one, then.

However, I also pay taxes on things I buy on the Internet.

I guess that makes me more equal than all of you.


How can he be a better person if he's a convicted thief and I'm not? I won't even dignify the 'he is so far above us all he couldn't possibly find a jury of his peers' with a response further than, "Currently, he's surrounded by his peers. They're all serving times for felonies, too!"

Adky, I think it would be interesting to watch you explain to those who convicted Wittig exactly how it is that he's a better person than they. I'd probably want to watch from a distance, because BS stinks and blood stains, and I wouldn't want to get either on me.

Linda Aikins 11 years, 7 months ago

Yep. How about you have them run a bank where you have all your savings? I mean ALL of your money. Would you want that?

bankboy119 11 years, 7 months ago

"Sounds more like a whole lot of jealousy and class envy clouding peoples' thinking."

Not really, I'm not jealous of the guy. I'm not jealous of any idiot that embezzles and gets sent to prison.

As for the class you have any idea how much money I make? Anyone who makes their money in a dishonest way has no right to keep it and deserves what Wittig got plain and simple.

I do find it funny on this one how some who normally are rallying for stiffer penalties want this jerk to get off easier because he's a "good guy." Last I checked Jesus was a good guy and he didn't steal millions. In fact, the one in the good book who was stealing money from the coin purse hanged himself. Oh and he turned out not to be such a great guy.

Rick Aldrich 11 years, 7 months ago

do the crime do the time. greed is an amazing thing. who cares about the freinds and family they all got money and alot of it too. i care about us little pee ons that lined their pockets. we are the victims not the freinds or family of these 2 money evil hungry greedy little nobody men. see ya. would'nt wanta be ya.

usaschools 11 years, 7 months ago

I am sorry that anyone has to spend time in prison, yet, given the magnitude of the crime of which he was found guilty, I think Wittig is getting off easy. Do to his social class, and for no other reason, he will likely be sent to some sort of luxury prison where it is like being confined to your apartment. I doubt he will even truly be "behind bars." I don't approve of the special treatment of so-called "white-collar" crime, as though theft of this type and magnitude is a lesser crime than other forms of theft.

armyguy 11 years, 7 months ago

Kinda between which arugment to make here, so here goes

1. As a 40 something nontrad student at KU, I have heard the same sort of thing. "I want to do that same sort of thing that Enron or Westar did but get away with it." These are very smart kids with a lot of talent and will be in our workplace very shortly. It scares me that there is so much thinking like that. I do see that there is no company loyalty anymore, so why would you not think in those terms.

2.The Lady that cleans my house every couple of weeks is the wife of a great guy in his 70's retired from Enron and moved back to KS with his wife of many years. I would guess she is in her 60's. She was retired also, however they have zero retirement now thanks to Enron. There retirement payments that were once enough to make house payments and other nice-a-t's

Too many of the Westar types have been walking far too much.

Hang em high, nice guys or not....

Ember 11 years, 7 months ago

Ahhh, the much clouted "Good Christian" argument has reared it's ugly, prfane head yet again.

Who cares what religion they are, truth be told? Would it matter more if they were Jewish? Perhaps Muslim?

This Kmat fool is exceptionally deluded if he/she is sitting there thinking that Wittig was some fine, upstanding gentleman that just ran into a streak of bad luck.

Give me a break, you pathetic little guttersnipe. I could care less how charitable the man was. He could have built an entire hospital that was free to anyone that walked through the doors and I would still be pleased to see him go to jail for breaking the law.

Embezzlement is illegal, regardless of what motivations brought the case to the attentions of the prosecuting attorneys. I don't honestly care what intraoffice backstabbing was going on. The fact of the matter is that Wittig and Lake conspired (illegal) to embezzle (illegal) funds from the corporation that employed them.

Managers that are found to be guilty of stealing money from the nightly drops can be prosecuted for embezzlement. Cashiers at gas stations can be charged with the same thing, as an ex-manager of mine found out the very hard way.

Since you seem to think that his punishment is so horrendous, how about you review case law regarding embezzlement, take into consideration possible sentencing recommendations, and come up with a more "fair", and I use the term facetiously, punishment.

Personally, I have no qualms at all about locking his stupid butt away for a couple of decades.

Oh, and there is no such thing as a country club prison. Yeah, it's not a federal pound-you-in-the-*ss prison, but it is still prison, regardless. Known quite a few that were in low security prisons for a few different reasons, and all of them have horror tales about some of the things that they went through, not only from the other inmates, but from the guards as well.

Trust me, if Wittig ends up in a Kansas run prison, the guards will most likely have a field day giving him every single excrement job they can find from sun up to sundown. He's out millions upon millions of dollars, his freedom to come and go has been removed and he is going to be locked up with a bunch of people that will have issues with what he did and with guards that will have the same issues.

It's not going to be all roses and sunshine for the man. He's irked way too many people that are going to have control over his life for a number of years to come. I doubt they are going to tired of making him their meat puppet any time soon, either.

terrapin2 11 years, 7 months ago

Ember Calling people guttersnipes is completely uncalled for. Everyone is entitled to their opinion even when it differs from your own. I can understand that if all you know about Mr. Wittig is what you read in the paper, you are not going to have a favorable opinion of him. There is a lot about this case that people on the outside do not know or understand. It will be revealed in the future and you may be eating your words. usaschools Mr. Wittig is in a maximun security prison right now in an orange jumpsuit behind bars. He can only see his children and wife through bulletproof glass and speak to them over a phone. Does that sound like a country club to you? In fact the prison he has requested is not a nice place either and truthfully he doesn't get to choose where he goes anyway. That is up to the prison board, but it is his right to "request" a particular facility.

I would like to ask this question. If you were looting a company, would you put millions of dollars of your own money into stock in that company and then proceed to destroy it? If you had a 28 million dollar split dollar life insurance policy that you could cash in at any time, would you leave it at the company that you were trying to loot? Doesn't make much sense does it. That money is all still at Westar. He could have cashed it in and he didn't. That doesn't sound like looting to me and these are only 2 examples of many I could give that do not make sense. If he was in fact stealing from the company than he would have been stealing from himself. That would be stupid and Mr. Wittig is not stupid. Westar is using this case as an excuse to raise our rates when most of the money that was supposedly "stolen" is still at the company and they are being reimbursed for any legal fees. Convenient to blame Mr. Wittig again.

terrapin2 11 years, 7 months ago

No relation. Any information I have stated is public record. I have just done more research on this case than most.

terrapin2 11 years, 7 months ago

No relation. Any information I have stated is public record. I have just done more research on this case than most. And he didn't need to "enrich himself at other people's expense" and he didn't. He was a wealthy man long before coming to Kansas. It would really be nice to hear the Wittig's side of the story someday since we have not seen it in any paper. I imagine we will eventually.

terrapin2 11 years, 7 months ago

observer talk about an easy answer. you didn't answer the question. maybe you should go into politics. to even say the death sentence would be appropriate for this crime just shows me what kind of person you really are.

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