Archive for Sunday, September 25, 2005

Lawrence rally attracts 400 anti-war protesters

March simultaneous with Washington event

September 25, 2005


President Bush hasn't heeded their call for two years, but that didn't stop about 400 people from marching through downtown Lawrence on Saturday while calling for American forces to be brought home from Iraq.

"I think it's good to speak out," said Bob Marvin, one of the marchers. "I'm glad people turned out for this."

The marchers consisted of people of all ages, including a few children. Some families brought their dogs. They carried signs critical of the Bush administration's war effort, including ones that proclaimed "How Many Should Die For 0 WMD," and "Quagmire Accomplished."

While the protesters in Lawrence marched down Massachusetts Street to South Park for a peace rally, tens of thousands of like-minded people participated in a similar march in Washington, D.C., which went past the White House to the Washington Memorial. There they staged their own rally.

Peace marchers make their way south on Massachusetts Street with banners, posters and flags en route to South Park Saturday morning during the Cost of War march and rally. About 400 marchers participated in the event, which was organized in conjunction with marches across the country calling for an end to the war in Iraq.

Peace marchers make their way south on Massachusetts Street with banners, posters and flags en route to South Park Saturday morning during the Cost of War march and rally. About 400 marchers participated in the event, which was organized in conjunction with marches across the country calling for an end to the war in Iraq.

Lawrence resident Lauren Sullivan was among the marchers in Washington.

"There are a lot of different people here, and they are all against the war in Iraq," she said from her cell phone as she moved with the crowd past 15th and Pennsylvania streets. "Beyond expressing their frustrations with Bush, everybody is smiling and happy. There are a lot of religious groups here."

During the rally at the South Park gazebo, the seriousness of the anti-war issue was mixed with some humor. Speakers talked about the cost of the war in Iraq, referring not only to lives lost but also to the amount of money spent on the war. A long roll of cloth was unfurled to represent the military budget in comparison to much shorter rolls representing budgets for education and social and employment services.

"We're going to need more people," said speaker Christine Smith, as the military "budget" was unrolled.

A pair of Bush T-shirts poking fun at the president were displayed and put up for bid in a silent auction. One shirt bearing the words "Texas Homegrown Dope," showed Bush's face amid a marijuana plant. The second shirt was a cartoon of Bush pouring gasoline from a pump onto a burning globe while the lettering referred to him as "Global Warming Bush." Money from the auction was to help pay for fliers and publicity costs associated with putting on the march and rally, said organizers of the event from the Lawrence Coalition for Peace and Justice.

Lawrence resident Joe Douglas leads the chant "No More War" as marchers gather at Buford M. Watson Jr. Park before the Cost of War march and rally Saturday morning in downtown Lawrence.

Lawrence resident Joe Douglas leads the chant "No More War" as marchers gather at Buford M. Watson Jr. Park before the Cost of War march and rally Saturday morning in downtown Lawrence.

Along with the speeches, several musicians performed, including one song sang to the tune of "Glory, Glory Hallelujah," with "Halliburton" substituted for hallelujah.

David Scheuer was against the war when it began in March 2003. He said he wasn't surprised that the war was still going on.

"I just thought that it wouldn't be quite as simple as we were assured it was going to be," Scheuer said.

For many of the older people at the march and rally, the event was reminiscent of past protest marches during another controversial war. Ralph and Roma Earles said they participated in protests against the Vietnam War in Lawrence in the late 1960s. They said they didn't expect to be involved in another war protest more than 30 years later.

"It's very discouraging to know how much the government has departed from the mainstream of American values," Ralph Earles said.

The Earles' daughter, Chelsea, was taking part in the Washington rally, they said.

Allan Hanson, one of the coordinators for the Peace and Justice Coalition, said he was pleased with the rally. One person was designated to take a head count of the participants and determined that there were about 400 people. At least 20 people moved off the sidewalks and joined the marchers as they moved down Massachusetts, Hanson said.


ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

well, anti-war protesters inflate their numbers? try this one on for size:

You are all pathetic, give up before you completely makes fools of yourselves.

John1945 12 years, 8 months ago

Is there a dictator somewhere these people will hate more than they hate America?

james bush 12 years, 8 months ago

Are these the people who march under the banner of "Lawrence anarchists"?

ryanjasondesch 12 years, 8 months ago

"it appeared that it was organized by Islamofascists"

obviously too much ignorance and selective attention results in catasrophic loss of intelligence. Were they holding AK-47's in the air? Or were they just intelligent Americans who happen to disagree with an anti-humanist, and consist of those rational and clever individuals who happen to excercise their God-given right to make fun of a President who couldn't possibly provide an easier target? Wow, misinterpretation is a bitch, sorry.

Richard Heckler 12 years, 8 months ago

These people don't hate america nor do they want any futher harm to come to our troops. Bring the troops home.

The premeditated war for control of natural resources that belong to the Iraq people obviously has proved more difficult than the neocons expected. All the while the USA government is paying mercenaries $365,000 a much do you suppose the new young troops on the front lines are being paid? Why are many of the families of the new young troops on assistance programs?

Why did the Bush family of neocons think the mideast people of Iraq would want american oil people to control their natural resources as well as their primary source of revenue?

I know most people are very busy but did you know...

The Bush Administration Is Anti American!

Disaster profiteering here and abroad, government paid mercenaries in many american and foreign cities and no bid contracts are ripping off the american taxpayer and keeping americans from being hired in Katrina hurricane region. The inability of Bush to rein in gas prices places an everyday increase on our cost of living. All of the interest on the Bush borrowing spree is a huge tax increase on all taxpayers even the lovers of Bush.

Bush's rather crude approach to our allies regarding Iraq certainly is not representative of the true american way of thinking. Today he started blaming Clinton for his failure to pay attention to the Al Qaida before 9/11 and everyone knows he was well briefed on the matter from the Clinton administration.

Food for thought: ------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I have a record in office, as well. And all Americans have seen that record. September the 4th, 2001, I stood in the ruins of the Twin Towers. It's a day I will never forget." -George W. Bush, Marlton, New Jersey, Oct. 18, 2004

The Patriot Act is a document that subtracts the number your rights.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

I wasn't at the march, but I would guess that some of those participating consider themselves anarchists, but the majority were likely just average citizens-- citizens who hate the murderous, short-sighted and greedy agenda of this administration, not America.

memoirs_of_a_sleepwalker 12 years, 8 months ago

John 1945, Your simple-mindedness is absoutely amazing. How can you even begin to make the claim that people against war hate America? In your eyes, is deceit, war, and the murder of Americans and Iraqis what makes us American? Is this what you're proud of? It seems you need to consider how your ideological view creates larger problems in the world. But you won't, because this would actual require a critical analysis beyond the world as black and white, good and evil, American and terrorist. Besides, you're proud to be a "patriotic" American." Thus terrorism against our nation will continue.

People concerned about the welfare of the American troops, the Iraqis, and how this war portrays us to the rest of the world are the true, loving Americans. In spite of what your leader and Bill O'Reilly tells you, it is possible to love our troops, hate the war, care about our position in the world's eyes, and deeply love the nation. Don't insult me, and other like-minded Americans, with your ignorance.

And I'm waiting for Arminius, proud of his "research," to jump in here with a link to some fallacy-laden site.

hurlehey 12 years, 8 months ago

I wass ittin in front of einstein bros and thought wow not a bad turnout; counted about 225. I don't understand why they would want to make up numbers for decently motivated protest.

Jamesaust 12 years, 8 months ago

400 people? in Lawrence, Kansas? Heck, there are more aging hippies at "Art in the Park." Just when one begins to question the pathetic execution of this war by this administration, something like this rabble who've smoked a little too much weed stiffens the spine a bit.
The are probably only 400 people in Lawrence who engage in sufficient productive activity (i.e., earn enough money) to pay more than a widow's mite of the income taxes that support this war. Perhaps they should have a march downtown? Ooops. They're too busy working.

Richard Heckler 12 years, 8 months ago

These activities usually have people waiting at the park who do not march. Who knows who came up with the could have been the reporters.

bearded_gnome 12 years, 8 months ago

$%#$...400 or 250 or 220/225. in yesterday's "rally" or protest in D.C. the socialist et al organizers claimed 350,000 participants. the park police estimated 100,00-150,00 participants. this is a big number but these groups have a long history of overestimating (inflating) their numbers. but even if the local organizers' own number, 400, is right and not the more likely 250...that is a limp and lukewarm response for this community. might there be "anti-war fatigue?" or, disaffection with Cindy Sheehan?
cindy sheehan, by the way, supports the Palestinians, who protested or celebrated actually, on 9-11, 3-11, 7-7, and Katrina's disaster.
for lawrence, the blu blotch in a radiant red state, this turnout is surprisingly low!

just watched the washington rally in support. saw the author of "bom in my garden" who was Saddam's nuke man.
enjoyed that rally very much. was on c-span.

contrast yesterday's rallies and today's...big difference. Yesterday: "halliburton" +=+ heart of darkness; conspiracies everywhere; "bush got us into war by lie..." etc. Today, hope, democracy, finish the good job we have started, Lebanon Egypt afghanistan Iraq, march of freedom. great! USA! USA! USA!

meggers 12 years, 8 months ago

Bearded Gnome: I heard that the numbers for the prowar rally were disappointingly low, compared to what the organizers were hoping for.

I marched yesterday and I agree that the 400 figure seems a bit high, but even if it was 250 people or so, that's still a pretty impressive number, considering our nation is still at war. 100,000 in DC is incredible.

If you care to do a little bit of research, you will find that what you describe as conspiracy theories have plenty of factual basis- and I agree, some folks are just way out there on BOTH sides of the argument.

What might seem inspiring to you today in DC are merely more words of empty rhetoric. The facts on the ground tell a different story. I'm not an "out of Irag NOW person", but I do believe our military presence there is postponing an almost inevitable civil war and fueling more animosity towards the US.

I want accountability from our nation's leaders, to ensure that such a foreign policy blunder never again occurs in this nation's future.

I was impressed with the numbers yesterday and unsurprised by the rally today (BTW, C-SPAN rocks!).

I agree, USA, USA, USA! One can love this country and at the same time, be opposed to the policies of the administration in charge. I marched yesterday because I love my country.

meggers 12 years, 8 months ago

I don't consider myself an Islamofascist or a socialist and I marched yesterday. I'm an American.

For those of you who who voice distain at orderly dissent, I can't help but ask: If democracy involves an unquestioned allegiance to the nation's leader, what separates our nation from the dictatorships of the world?

bearded_gnome 12 years, 8 months ago

Thanks Arminius, I live to serve.

some of the antiwar protestors now say they do not want us out of Iraq immediately; instead, they want to hear an "exit strategy."

first, if Joe, or Sunshine, of Pot Haze State knows our exit strategy, then don't you think Usama, and Bashir, and Omar do too?

I'm going to reference Clausewitz on this, but I know most here do not even know who or what a "clausewitz" is. arminius, I bet you do, so wait and see: 15points to some one else who can correctly identify Clausewitz and why he is important to the issue of putting out your exit strategy... no looking...web searching... Oh, Arminius, one of my favorite quotes: "hate a frenchman as you do the devil." uttered about 202 years ago by Nelson; oopps, most here probably do not know who Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson KB was.

so, Arminius, let some of the libs on here try to answer first, as I am sure you know the answer.

bearded_gnome 12 years, 8 months ago

Meggers, I appreciate your first comment as it was at least reasoned and reasonable many of the organizations behind the DC march identify themselves as socialist, or get their funding from socialist organizations. International Answer is a good example of the latter.
I am sure you are sincere Meggers and thank you for expressing yourself.

I do not have unquestioning support of the Bush administration; there are things they do which I absolutely do not understand, such as failing to use tools at hand to secure our borders properly.

I have a dear friend in Pakistan, who tells me that in at least one university, what we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is moving their own population towards democracy and greater freedoms. some are afraid of what we are doing in Iraq, often because of what the Taliban-linked radical muslims are putting out, instead of the facts on the ground.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 12 years, 8 months ago

BushCo have impaled Iraq with a barbed spear. There's no way to pull out without inflicting more damage, whether it's now, or five years from now. If we stay, Iraq will continue to bleed from the wounds we've already inflicted.

This war was ill-concieved, and there's no way to fix the damage. Those of us who opposed this war from the start (beginning about 15 years ago) warned that this would be the result. So to those who still think that more violence will end violence, you were wrong, you are wrong and you will continue to be wrong.

So suck in your inflated egos.

bearded_gnome 12 years, 8 months ago

In previous rallies/marches/disturbances/temper-tantrums, lawrence has seen 700 and 800 marchers, that's from their own published numbers. so, yes, this is a very weak, limp, turnout for lawrence. this time, though, there was no vandalism/property crime, right?

bearded_gnome 12 years, 8 months ago

Nobody took up my challenge about Clasewitz...proof that these people do not even understand the history and practice war; they just know how to express their ill-informed, or uninformed, opinions.
their ideas would make us weaker, and the terrorists would win.
Clausewitz, any one?

bearded_gnome 12 years, 8 months ago

finally, RJD, please keep up your fine work here representing your side! you're doing a great job.

Cindy Sheehan got herself arrested today in front of the whitehouse. like the Dole center protestors who got themselves arrested on purpose, then whined in the media about conditions in jail! btw, I believe their charges were dropped for political pressure and not because the charges were without merrit. the charges had merrit. in this town, the political poobahs did not want to make martyrs, and did not want to upset the children.

Sheehan got herself arrested, apparently because she and her handlers were dissatisfied with media coverage of the saturday march in DC? So, how soon will Cindy be beefing about jail conditions, too? I can hardly wait. did they cavity search her? go to jail, not a nice place, eh?

Lepanto1571 12 years, 8 months ago

Bearded Gnome,

My recollection of Clausewitz is a bit foggy (Fog of War, no pun intended) as I was in the Army the entire time as we entered into Airland Battle Doctrine to meet the Soviets in the Fulda Gap, which had as it's foundation on the principles of war set forth by Clausewitz, to the slow transition out of ALBD to the modular concept of current operations centered on a non-linear, non-contiguous adversary.

As I recall from memory (since you ask for such) of the Principles of War that the U.S. Army through the 80's and the ALBD era (as derived from Clausewitz) were Objective, Mass, Economy of Force, Surprise...

4 out 9(?), not too good I guess; but my memory ain't what it used to be.

The one thing I do have good memeory of was Clausewitz' concept of focusing on the enemy's center of gravity; which is universal in operational war no matter the time one finds himself. While Clausewitz had a generalized view of it (i.e. the enemy main force/effort), U.S. Army doctrine perfected it and developed weapons to target adversary COGs (which Clasuewitz could never have imagined), like C2, socio-political-economic conditions, industry, you get the idea.

With the advent of high-tech acquisition, sensor, and non-lethal, as well as efficient lethal means, to find and engage targets, enemy COGs can now be found, analyzed, and destroyed or neutralized (all tied in with a powerful global C2 system)even more efficiently, with minimal collateral damage and near-real-time observation and damage assessment.

Clausewitz would be proud of the fruition of his influence upon the western way of war, but revolted by peaceniks (who convenietnly define courage as dissent because they possess no sack to actually demonstrate courage) who would roll over to their adversaries in the sad tradition of Neville Chamberlain.

Thanks for the challenge which I probably did little justice to.

Take care, Outta here!

bearded_gnome 12 years, 8 months ago

Lepanto...what is the significance of your name here?
you did good and thanks for your service, too, you sir are a great american!
yes, most of all, he said you must focus against your enemy's central strength. nice job.
if we give an exit strategy, we spell out a road map and chronology for our enemy to focus on our strength!
nice job on the other principles of war...also "interior lines" another in our era we tend to forget.
and, he talked about the need to know what your enemy knows, and what he knows you know. nice job on some current application. 20points!

thanks again for your service!

bearded_gnome 12 years, 8 months ago

Lepanto, you are also quite right about the definition of courage! Clausewitz would not spend two pfenigs on the peacenic definition.
are you familiar with Clausewitz' defense in russia against Napoleon? exciting stuff.

Lepanto1571 12 years, 8 months ago


As far as the name, you can google it, but the short version is that although an Army guy, I found that a "small" ("small" according to the Whig version of the history of the West) naval battle in 1571 was, perhaps the key to the deliverance of the West from the Turk (while not necessarily decisive, it set the Turk back and led to his decline over the next hundred years). I make no apologies for a belief in the superiority of Western culture and I am not alone (Victor Davis Hanson) in that assessment although it is not a popular one with a modern hate-culture that views the Western past as backward and stupid. Little do they know that they owe everything given them in the rise of modern democracy to the efforts of a few who would eliminate the threat of a Turkish pre-occupation with conquering the West.

The only other battle that rivals Lepanto in my mind is perhaps LaVallette's defense of Malta in 1565. These are epic battles in "modern" Western military history and bear study to the honest student of history. They have all been but buried, except for the diligent few, due to the English winning the right to write the history of the more recent era. Lepanto is buried in obscurity because the Armada was defeated by the Elizabethans not long after (1588). Malta was just too, well, Catholic.

While there are many lessons to be learned in two millenia of warfare (Troy, Hannibal, Scipio Africanus, Caesar's forays into Gaul, et al), Lepanto and Malta, in my assessment, shaped the modern West and provide the best vehicle by which to see the situation we find ourselves in today.

Regarding Clasuewitz and Napoleon, I'll leave that one for you to expound upon.

Nice talking with you.

bearded_gnome 12 years, 8 months ago

Thanks! I know generally about that battle without knowing the name, very interesting and quite correct about saving the western world. Hansen is correct in my book too.
actually Clausewitz opposed an army under orders from Napoleon, not Napoleon himself. he made an effective defense using land and water-bourne forces, very limited numbers for the task.
Thanks again for your service.

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