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Lawrence and Douglas County

Lawrence and Douglas county

Professor blasts KU, sheriff’s investigation

Mirecki says he may sue university

December 10, 2005

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Kansas University professor Paul Mirecki said he's hired an attorney and is ready to go to the mat with KU and the Douglas County Sheriff's Office.

"If I have to sue, I will," he said.

Mirecki said he's angry because KU didn't back him after religious conservatives attacked him for his plan to teach a course dealing with intelligent design.

Mirecki became a political lightning rod after his new course was announced and his derisive comments on an Internet message board about conservative Christians and Catholics were later widely distributed.

His planned spring course was canceled. Still, some legislators said they would call Mirecki and KU Chancellor Robert Hemenway on the carpet for a public hearing.

On Wednesday the university announced Mirecki had resigned as chairman of the religious studies department. But Friday, Mirecki told the Journal-World he was forced to step down.


Kansas University religious studies professor Paul Mirecki displays on Friday the bruises that he says came from a beating two men gave him early Monday. He says the university has not been supportive of him through his ordeal.

Kansas University religious studies professor Paul Mirecki displays on Friday the bruises that he says came from a beating two men gave him early Monday. He says the university has not been supportive of him through his ordeal.

"The University penalized me and denied me my Constitutionally protected right to speak and express my mind," he wrote in a statement prepared for the newspaper. "I've become radioactive and the University's administrators won't support me."

Mirecki said his career was ruined and that "speaking engagements that I had lined up now have been canceled."

On Friday, he displayed two black eyes and a bruise on his arm that he said came from a beating administered early Monday by two unknown men who had followed him in a pickup truck as he drove to breakfast. He said his attackers mentioned the controversy.

He said he was not pleased with the sheriff's investigation because he had been "treated more like a criminal than a victim."

He said he was interviewed by officers several times, "once for five hours straight. They keep asking me the same things over and over. They seized my car; they entered my office and seized my computer. They said they need them for their investigation but it didn't make any sense to me."

Lt. Kari Wempe, a spokeswoman for the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, released a statement Friday night that said the sheriff's office had not seen a copy of Mirecki's prepared statement to the media.

"Until we are provided with a document from Mr. Mirecki, we are not able to comment on it. Our agency continues to thoroughly investigate this crime against Mr. Mirecki," Wempe said.

Mirecki said he has hired Lawrence attorney David Brown to represent him.

Hemenway said he had been told by other administrators that Mirecki stepped down from his chairman's post. He said KU has supported Mirecki.

"Professor Mirecki still has a job at the University of Kansas," Hemenway said. "That would appear to be support for his rights to his tenured position and his rights to free speech ... The university deplores the fact that he was apparently attacked. We've said so."

Hemenway also said he had been told that KU police called Mirecki to see how they might help him.

But Mirecki said the university had done little to back him and that he was fired as department chairman because he had the "temerity to challenge the power of the religious right in Kansas and the university capitulated to demands of the conservative minority."

He said he felt let down by the administration and colleagues who sought his resignation Tuesday.

He said he had no choice but to sign the resignation letter, which was typed on stationery from the office of Barbara Romzek, interim dean of the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences.

Mirecki said he lived under threat of another attack.

"If the University doesn't support me, I could be in more physical danger because the University is not standing up to the religious extremists," he said.

He said the number of threatening letters and e-mails has increased since the chancellor called Mirecki's online comments "repugnant and vile" in a public statement.

He said he also had received more than 2,500 e-mails and letters from academics around the world supporting him.

"The University has a duty, as a protector of intellectual honesty and debate, to support its teaching staff when controversial issues are raised," Mirecki said. "Now those on the right are emboldened and feel they can take this a step higher.

"At this point, I just want this to be over."

Comments

RayanaSandy 9 years ago

I agree with Mirecki. KU hasn't done enough to support him at all.

Sandman 9 years ago

Take the polygraph! Prove everyone wrong...

audvisartist 9 years ago

Is it just me, or is anyone else REALLY tired of seeing this guy make the front page on an all too regular basis? And what's up with the black eyes? They're the most symmetrical I've ever seen!

jwmound 9 years ago

yeah, don't look like any black eye ever had, but it isn't a surprise to me when the university asked for a resignation. If you believe in a high power, it will prevail reguardless of this political bullshiste!

enochville 9 years ago

Those bruises look like they could come from the bottom of his glasses being smashed against his face.

audvisartist 9 years ago

hmmmm good point, enochville! But like the old cartoons say, "You'd never hit a guy with glasses!"

ksmattfish 9 years ago

"Is it just me, or is anyone else REALLY tired of seeing this guy make the front page on an all too regular basis?"

Not as tired as I am of ignorant, superstitious, fundamentalist BS making the headlines.

malachi 9 years ago

Unbelievable, this could have all been avoided had we left intelligent design where it belonged. In a book of fairy tales.

ksmattfish 9 years ago

"hide behind the lawyer,boy does that say guilty"

I'll keep this in mind as half the Republican party lines up for court.

LawrenceMommy 9 years ago

Just an interesting point. One of the methods they use in Emergency Departments to determine child abuse is by "staging" the bruising. Bruises of different ages appear different colors due to the process of breaking down the components of blood. The "bruises" on his face are definitely not from the same time as the one on his arm...the arm one is older. The face bruises are still a deep purple color, which indicates they are about 2-5 days old. The arm bruise is green and yellowing toward the edges. That is indicative of a bruse that is 7-10 days old. The alleged beating happened on the 5th and the picture was taken on the 9th. My math must not add up.

Shardwurm 9 years ago

I don't care if you're right wing or left wing, this guy doesn't know when to shut up.

He says he's gotten 2500 letters from other academics?

Proof that our education system is a shambles.

LarryFarma 9 years ago

I think that the university actually bent over backwards to support Mirecki. For example, before Mirecki's derogatory email was exposed, the university provost released an official statement defending the term "mythologies" in the course title. See -- http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/nov/23/ku_official_responds_course_critics/?evolution

I wonder when Mirecki will sell the movie rights to his story. What's a good name for the movie? Evil Dr. P and the Fundies? The Wizard of Sleaze? Inherit the Kansas Tornado? If I Only Had a Brain? Any suggestions?

I say, let Mirecki continue to make a fool of himself. He makes a nice poster child for anti-ID bigotry.

trinity 9 years ago

just all still smells awful fishy to me.

context 9 years ago

I love my Bill of Rights at least as much as the next guy; but this guy just embarrassed himself, now he's grasping. And don't think I write from the right; I'm part of the quiet left who think this guy's a joke.

MadAnthony 9 years ago

I will not belieive until I thrurst my hand into the hole in his side from the metal pipe and see his broken (or at least bent) glasses. btw, I would think a shot to the eyes hard enough to cause such bruises, with glasses on, would bruise the nose as well, no? And if not, Dr. P should not be driving around in the country at 6 am without his glasses on! Maybe that is why he got out, he was asking the red necks if they were helping him find his glasses? Kinda like in a dream, like when you end up in front of your debunking christianity class in your silk underwear......

trinity 9 years ago

"It will be interesting to compare the comments here with those under the Altevogt article."

it's pretty quiet over there, so far, e_m

i think this guy's just in way over his head&is flailing to get his ship righted. so how goes the investigation, as far as finding the two big guys and the large pickup truck?

Kookamooka 9 years ago

Why do you think the Sheriff seized his computer? If I get beat up on my way to breakfast, will the sheriff seize MY computer? That's WEIRD!! I only wish he had been able to give more details about his assailants so someone can catch them and put them behind bars. Big Thugs hitting people because they don't agree with them is a better reflection of a poor educational system than a bunch of intellectuals supporting free speech!!

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

"The University penalized me and denied me my constitutionally protected right to speak"

I work for one of the top-five financial services companies in America, a corporation with hundreds of thousands of employees. Our company clearly states in it's policies that any personal communication (including web logs, chat rooms, etc.) that relates to our professional conduct can be scrutinized, and if that personal communication puts my company in a negative light, I can suffer consequences up to termination. In other words, if I'm known to be an employee of my company and if I posted inappropriate material on a message board (the list of what could be "inappropriate" is too long to mention here) about my company, a competitor, the industry or persons in my company, I could lose my job. Example: I cannot speak my mind if I'm at a non-work function (sitting on a bar stool on a Saturday night for example) but wearing clothing that has a company logo on it. The things I say on that bar stool can be considered the official position of my company if people see the logo on my shirt. We get mandatory yearly training on this issue just to be sure we understand it and do not cross those lines.

Mirecki is an employee of both KU and the State. He posted inappropriate materials that directly related to his position at KU/the State. His employer can "punish" him for doing so. If he had stated "Kid Rock is Satan, and by the way, these are my opinions, not those of the University" that would be different. But, expressing those thoughts (anti-fundie statements) in a forum where his identity is clearly known (a prof who teaches about fundies) was wrong and he should realize that only losing the chairmanship of the department was a "bargain".

I never really thought that it was his idea to step down.

Mirecki: Yes, you were punished (which was appropriate), but your constitutionally protected right to speak is as an INDIVIDUAL. You posted on the SOMA sight, where you are known to have an official position (sponsor of SOMA, and religion prof from KU). You, as a representative of the University, crossed a line that has consequences that the Constitution will not protect you from. If your attorney doesn't know that, get yourself a better attorney.

Steve Jacob 9 years ago

"The University penalized me and denied me my Constitutionally protected right to speak and express my mind,"?

So, if right here, I told everyone how stupid everyone at work it, including my boss and tell hom bad our product is, I can't get in trouble or fired becase I have a right to speck my mind?

What planet is he from?

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Look at the Mirecki photo. Tanned face. White arms. How ironic: Mirecki IS a redneck! It was "redneck on redneck crime". Will the insanity ever stop [sobbing sound]?!

lunacydetector 9 years ago

why would he sue the douglas county sherriff's office?

....let's see, a pickup truck started tailgating him in the freezing dark of morn in the middle of nowhere, he pulled over, the truck pulled over, he got out, then two guys got out of their truck (one had a red kneck -i mean red visor), and then they started beating him? sounds like a great reason to sue the sherriff's office.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Hey, great post Anthony! Very creative Jesus reference. I wish I had come up with that.

By the way folks, since his assault was connected to his web activities, it makes perfect sense for investigators to want to thoroughly investigate his computer. Who was he communicating with/about who may want to do this to him? Some have suggested that John1945 whacked him. If they wanted to look into that, seeing his communications with John1945 is where you'd start. Not suspicious at all.

Mirecki is losing perspective here. He needs to see a counselor to help him deal with the trauma of this event. I think his martyr complex is getting away from him. First he won't talk to the press and talks about wanting this to go away, then he's on the front page with his NFL linebacker pose talking about a lawsuit.

MadAnthony 9 years ago

Stating the obvious, I would guess that the sheriff seized his computer to determine if anyone had emailed him the concept of the beating before it occured. Either as a threat (rednecks online, isnt that a novel idea?) or as a plan. Will be most interesting to find out if the KBI comes up with anything on that front. (Not that we pebes are likely to ever know.) But if the latter, then Mr. Brown better have some criminal defense background and, if the latter, then I would wager that some in the community may be leaving Lawrence for winter (or is it Boxing Day?) break, never to return to this jurisdiction.

bmelm 9 years ago

Looks like his glasses that are in his shirt pocket survived the beating just fine.

Kookamooka 9 years ago

Just for the record. People get two black eyes, like his, when there is trauma to the nose. The blood pools into the area below the eyes. This exact thing happened to a girl I used to work with when she had a broken nose. (she was beaten by her nice conservative, God fearing, Christian boyfriend)

MadAnthony 9 years ago

You might be right. I only play a doctor on tv. Geez, I bet there was blood all over his shirt, car seat and crime scene if he took that hard of a blast to the honker!

Richard Heckler 9 years ago

The two alleged thugs would be hard to find under any circumstances unless more than the two know something about this. If the beating is a true story obviously two men had been stalking him for awhile in order to know he would be going to breakfast at 6 AM or somewhere therabouts.

Making assertions about balck eyes from a journal world photograph cannot be accurate. How many types of impact can cause two black eyes similar to those in the picture?

It's too bad KU cancelled classes over this. The legislators named thus far including the one who contacted the chancellor are part of the Kansas right wing IMO. There is no need for the legislature to be involved in this matter. KU has now cancelled two classes under right wing pressure...where is the backbone.

MadAsHell 9 years ago

The man doth protest too much, me thinks.

hawkbygod 9 years ago

Mirecki is a joke. When the University thought that he was going to teach a legitimate "balanced" class on the topic they supported him without end. So did I, I thought that no matter what your stance was on the issue, the course was a great chance to have intelligent KU students discuss the merits of all sides.

Then, Mirecki showed what a punk he really was with that stupid e-mail he sent out. Once he did that, he basically spat in the face of the University that supported him. Now KU, which already had an interesting relationship with the state legislature, has politics calling of more oversight and funding cuts. Mirecki turned his back on this school when he was a self centered, glory grabbing putz. He didn't deserve to get attacked, but he deserves everything else he's gotten.

David Albertson 9 years ago

Doesn't Christianity teach tolerance and forgiveness? Wouldn't beating this guy be considered a sin? It's just another example of the hypocrisy of the religious right.

Jeremy 9 years ago

What was the good professor doing so near Wells Overlook park, alone, early in the morning? What a scandall that might be. Wag the dog...

pt 9 years ago

Of course the University asked him to step down as chair. He was chair of the RELIGIOUS department, and clearly is NOT impartial to religion. When someone who is teaching religion, and is the head of the entire department labels a group "fundies" because of their belief, it tells me that he does not respect their beliefs. How can someone teach and direct religion without respecting the beliefs of others?

He can think and feel however he wants, but when he expresses that to colleagues through and email and a proposed class, he states that he is not impartial in his beliefs. Yes he has the freedom of speech, but he has no right to demean a group of people becuase of their beliefs in a classroom setting. Its the same reason why a teacher should be fired if they started writing nasty feelings about muslims, jews, etc. Prejudice feelings have no place in an educational environment.

bankboy119 9 years ago

Bartstop, yes it would. But just because those who allegedly beat him would be hypocrites doesn't mean the rest of Christians are. Isn't it also hypocritical to claim to be acceptive of all beliefs and then make fun of anyone who professes to be Christian? That's not too accepting is it?

bthom37 9 years ago

Quick, I think porkrib is having a seizure! Stick his wallet in his mouth so he doesn't bite off his tongue!

Sigmund 9 years ago

I know I'm on the lookout for roving gangs from religious right. It's one of my biggest fears. Anyone else? LA and KC have nothing on Lawrence.

On the other hand maybe Mirecki should apply to chair the Drama Department. The whole concept of a couple of christians beating this guy up is laughable. If I had to choose between violent fundamentalist christians roving the streets of one of the most liberral college towns in the midwest or that Mirecki is a drama queen, my money is on the later.

bthom37 9 years ago

Anyone else think he looks like a less wrinkled Erik Estrada?

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Has anyone considered that Jews or Muslims might be suspects in the crime and not just Christians? The issues of Creationism and belief in God comes from texts that are revered by all three of those faiths. In Kansas, we tend to only see the "Christan conservative" perspective in the newspaper, but is that fair? My guess is that if these guys were church-goers, they would have figured out by now that what they did was very wrong. I'm guessing that they are among those masses of people who say "this is a Christian nation" but who don't practice Christianity. As if there is a need to protect the policy of "Christianity" without being true to Christ themselves.

PT: While I don't disagree that he should have been asked to step down, I have to disagree with your statement that he should be impartial. I would argue that it's not really possible to be impartial. Even an agnostic has decided that they have made personal decisions about their beliefs. We all have beliefs, and should express/debate those beliefs in APPROPRIATE venues. I had 15 hours of Religous Studies credits at KU. Dr. Macaully (a GREAT teacher, I should add) would sometimes come to class wearing his "collar". He was also an ordained minister. If I remember correctly, Tim Miller also told us in class what his religious background was. But, in niether of those cases did I every feel as if something "personal" was being crammed down my throat. The question is about being judicial and fair in one's academic pursuits. Showing BIAS in his teaching, now THAT is unprofessional, and also a line that he crossed. (Maybe this whole post is about semantics, but I think there is a difference that is worth distinguishing.)

KayCee 9 years ago

Regardless of everyone's opinions, Mirecki has been his own worst enemy.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Sigmund, are you nuts? You are "on the lookout for roving gangs from religious right"?

Quote me ONE example of a street gang of right-wing Christians even being formed, let alone attacking someone. Just give me ONE link to a news story on that subject. Even one from The Inquirer would satisfy me.

pepper_bar 9 years ago

I wonder if he has to wear glasses to drive. There have been no reports of broken glasses being found at the scene or in Mirecki's possession when he got to the hospital.

Regardless, Hemenway's faint defense of Mirecki in this article is hilarious. "The university deplores the fact that he was apparently attacked."

YetAgain 9 years ago

It's amazing all the folks on the right who have been calling Miercki (and the folks defending him) bigots and worse, immediately jumped to the conclusion that he faked his beating, is faking his bruises, etc., etc., ad naseum. The hate expressed here is beyond incredible. And by people who call themselves "Christians". Christiaons beating people up laughable? Have any of you ever heard of Timothy McVey?? Seems to me he defended his god just a state south of you. That's just one fanatic of many. Christian hate is just as ugly as any other kind. You folks are makeing Kansas look like Iran.

Native Kansan in Washington (the world is watching, folks)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years ago

Almost everything I have heard about how Mirecki conducts his classes indicates that he does not do so in a biased way. The only exception I have heard is the fundamentalist christian student quoted in one of the articles today, but it sounds like he would only be satisfied with an approach that viewed the bible as the inerrant word of god, which would be a biased approach, and therefore inappropriate for that context.

The only mistake I see him having made is assuming that a "private" listserve will be respected as such by folks like Altevogt.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

KC has a point. All of this started with him. We can "blame" John A. for outing Mirecki, but only Mirecki could provide the fuel for the flame. It reminds me of when Bill Clinton came on TV to admit that he lied about Monica L. He first admits that he's a liar and an adulterer, then spends half his alotted time ripping Ken Star. Did Ken Star unzip Bill's pants for him? No. In the same way, Mirecki has unzipped his own pants. I think it's unfortunate that this controversy has come this far... but, even THAT is Mirecki's fault at this point. Now his pants are down around his ankles (so to speak).

How far does Mirecki want this to go? Where will he work if he files suit against KU? Will he sit in his home, unemployed and holding a court document with "case dismissed" stamped on it, and be glad he did it?

Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 9 years ago

Who will save Mirecki from himself? He seems to be his own worst enemy; losing more and more crediblity with each passing day. Some fundamentalist nut predicted that Mirecki would become a laughingstock. As much as I dislike oppressive religious wackos, the guy was absolutely right.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years ago

Yea, that'll really put some light on this situation, OldEnuf-- let's drag Clinton into this, cuz we just know Mirecki's lying about everything, and if the "blame Clinton for everything" argument works for Arminius on these boards, why not drag it out here, too.

bankboy119 9 years ago

I bet it was the Muslims. They were on a jihad.

Now let's see how many people call that statement bigoted. How dare I put Islam into that light. But if the statement had read,

"I bet it was the Christians. They were on a crusade,"

this would have been entirely acceptable. That in itself is intolerance against Christianity.

Another example,

Posted by derf (anonymous) on December 10, 2005 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And Allah said, "Forbear not the egoistic assiciate professor, specially if he's going through an emotional crisis, who cares! But, smite him with my vengeance. Its OK!" -the Koran, somewhere I just know Allah says that And in my worstest judgement I proclaim, CRUCIFY HIM!!!, in the name of Allah, of course.

That would be completely intolerant if it had read like that. The hypocrites are those who claim to be tolerant of all religions and treat Christians like criminals.

bankboy119 9 years ago

bozo, the comment you just made about Clinton sheds some light to the name. Nobody was blaming Clinton for anything, just stating history. Let's not twist words.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Hey, I'm just using it as an example. If it had been Reagan who had a "party" under the desk in the oval office, I would have used him. But, it was Bill.

I never expressed any support for the idea that Mirecki has lied. I'm saying that just as Bill could not blame Starr for riding the wave of Bill's lies, Mirecki can only blame himself for the problems that John A. has "caused" him. As KC said, this is ALL on Mirecki.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Momma: bruising around the eyes from a bust in the sinuses is not the same as a fleshly bruise on a place like the arm. The bruising is happening in a very different way because it's in the sinuses.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years ago

The history of Bill Clinton has zero, nada, nothing to do with this. Mirecki made the misake of assuming that a private email would not be made public. Otherwise, he got beat up for expressing that opinion, and offering a class that fundies don't want offered. Does that make him somewhat responsible for this situation?-- yes. But the largest repsonsiblity for this situation lies with religious wack-jobs and speculators blowing the whole thing out of proportion.

Sigmund 9 years ago

OldEnuf2BYurDad said - Sigmund, are you nuts? You are "on the lookout for roving gangs from religious right"?

Quote me ONE example of a street gang of right-wing Christians even being formed, let alone attacking someone. Just give me ONE link to a news story on that subject. Even one from The Inquirer would satisfy me.


Obviously my dry sense of humor, sarcasm, and deep skepticism was lost on you. I was attempting to show how truly absurd Mirecki's story really is. Thanks for making my point more directly than I was able to and allowing me to clarify.

Ms_D_mocrat 9 years ago

The first thing I thought when he allegedly got beat up was: Now he'll finally get new glasses to replace the ones he wears from 1983. But his glasses seem to be resting unscathed in his shirt pocket in that picture.

I want to believe him. I really do. Oh, Paul, say it ain't so! I can't imagine Christian hoodlums getting up at that hour to follow someone, no one on that road witnessing this, I would've interviewed him for 5 hours too. Jeez. This story just keeps getting better.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Bozo, you obviously missed my point.

Boy, you are really sensitive about Bill, aren't you? An "off limits" subject. Your name wouldn't be "Monica" would it? Just asking. :)

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Oh, OK Sig. I was wondering.

Roving bands. With all the crap people post here, it's hard to know what's real and what's not.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years ago

I couldn't miss your point-- you didn't have one.

Couldn't care less about Bill, but it's as irrelevant here as it is when Kevin drags it out.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Well, BankBoy got my point.

Wendt was the one that outed John1945 as John A. If you don't admit that my point was well made, I'm going to tell everyone who YOU really are, "M.L.".

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years ago

My real identity is protected as a matter of national security. It would be a federal crime to reveal it.

Sigmund 9 years ago

Posted by Jeremy

What was the good professor doing so near Wells Overlook park, alone, early in the morning? What a scandall that might be. Wag the dog...

Getting breakfast, although I can't imagine where. Seriously though, your question is the methaphorical giant pink elephant in the middle of the room that everyone (both on the right and the left) is trying to ignore.

Miyagi_Rules 9 years ago

Bankboy,

As Christians, we really need to quit trotting out the tired argument that we are the poor minority who is being persecuted at every turn. Do people in this country have different standards of tolerance for Christianity as opposed to Islam or other religions? Sure they do, but a lot of that is our fault, because we continually throw up the victim flag.

We are not the victim, we have amazing religious freedom in this country. Persecution is not having people say "mean" things about your faith on chat-rooms, persecution is having people want to kill you for your beliefs, throw stones at you, or deny you basic human rights.

schweppy 9 years ago

I believe he brought the attack on himself for an entirely different reason. I think that everyone knows if someone is tailgating you and forcing you off the road, the last thing you do is pull over and get out. Especially if it is two pissed off conservative hillbillies in thier pick-up. If you fear you are being followed you either drive to the nearest police station or call 911. Also, most people when attacked would try and get useful information like a license plate as the truck sped off. Oh wait, I forgot his glasses were broken.

He should have never gotten out of the car to confront these people. It's not the sheriff's offices fault that they haven't made an arrest, he doesnt have grounds to sue them. I wish this would disappear and stop putting KU in a negative eye nationally.

pundit 9 years ago

OldEnuf has it right:

"All of this started with him. We can "blame" John A. for outing Mirecki, but only Mirecki could provide the fuel for the flame. . . .In the same way, Mirecki has unzipped his own pants. I think it's unfortunate that this controversy has come this far... but, even THAT is Mirecki's fault at this point. Now his pants are down around his ankles (so to speak)."

. . .

The real winner here is the LJW, cause they can now make these hurtfull words and threatened litigation (on what remotely possible cause of action, by the way?...I was forced (under what kind of threat, he has tenure) to sign a letter???) into a four-month daily written soap, with hundreds of inches of articles... ala Dennis Dailey. Mark my words.

Sigmund 9 years ago

Schweppy- Especially if you're cruising Wells Overlook very early in the morning for an entirely different reason.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years ago

Who needs a life when you can engage in speculation as deep as is on this board?

Jamesaust 9 years ago

OldEnuf2BYurDad gives a perfectly lucid description of the perils of mixing private and public at work, however, it does not apply here.

A) Mireki's employer is the State, while his is not. Free speech rights are applicable ONLY against the State. Any private person or organization is free to discriminate against anyone on the basis of their speech.

B) Mireki's employment "contract" is without doubt different from his (or anyone else's). Mireki's job is about as safe as the Governor of the Bank of Italy (i.e., for life) and can only be fired under the most extreme of conditions. I assure you, expressing an opinion, even one the Chancellor terms inaptly "vile" is not one of those conditions. OldEnuf2BYurDad, and viturally everyone else I suspect, lacking an actual employment contract, can be fired in Kansas "at will" - meaning for any reason, or for no reason at all (unless it conflicts with an express government restriction, i.e., race, gender, or - with apologies to Wendt, under the right conditions - whistleblowing).

Note the subtle response by the Chancellor to Mirecki's claim that KU penalized him and denied him his speech rights. Hemingway: he's still employed (under his tenure contract - no "right" to be department chair, & still speaking). It doesn't require as many footnotes as a statement by Condi on torture but it makes clear that Mirecki doesn't have the basis for a legal claim against KU.

BTW - Hemingway's real beef with Mirecki is that, despite claims to the contrary by "the fundis," KU will most certainly find it more difficult to get the State to get off its lazy ... and fulfill their responsibilities to KU. Hemingway's professional name is riding on his efforts to boost the quality and reputation of KU. The question is: in the current political climate in the state, is it possible for Kansas to host a world-class university?

HateTheYankees 9 years ago

Look, let's not even allow this clown to create debate between us about Christianity and its competitors. This whole scenario is obviously staged. Everything in his story is just a little too convenient. Mirecki is the kid who got caught, and now he's trying to martyr himself and attract attention. Those bruises look like they were applied with makeup.

Dr. Mirecki: if you really "just want this to be over," stop being a one-man publicity machine. In case you didn't notice, YOU are the one keeping this story going. You called the LJW and the Kansan yourself to share your clearly fabricated sob story, now you are the one threatening lawsuits and claiming a lack of support.

The lack of support is obvious to me also; otherwise, Hemenway wouldn't say that KU was deplored when you were "apparently attacked." Everyone sees right through this story, Dr. Mirecki. Your career will never recover from this. The best thing to do is come clean, admit you made up the story, and resign from KU. You have given all of us who are fighting Intelligent Design a bad name.

We have no sympathy for you. No court of law will agree with you-- the idea that KU has violated your first amendment rights is ludicrous. Please reread it: you will find nothing about an organization failing to support an employee, especially when that employee is engaged in a transparent quest for media attention, going to great lengths and making up false assaults to receive that attention. The law enforcement agencies probably appear to not believe you because your story is so clearly false-- your inability, or unwillingness, to provide any details is proof of that. You are like the pathetic little kid who knows the jig is up but continues to cling to his story, no matter how many facts contradict that story. Please, for the good of Lawrence, resign and move on.

MadAnthony 9 years ago

I here that Doc Mirecki is considering a transfer to the another University, but he would rather fight than switch. (Insert view of his pix and rimshot here.)

oxandale 9 years ago

Many of you are supporters of the professor .. and there are just as many of you out there that do not support him. Both sides have very good arguments, and would love to prove the other side wrong (or atleast that your side is more right). Personally, i would like to just see how every hting plays out and see all of the information when it comes to light. Fortunatly, i never attended the republic of kansas... i mean KU. But, i have had family members that have. i just find it interesting that everyone is so quick to jump to conclusions on what happened, who did it.. blah blah blah.

Sigmund 9 years ago

Smitty- Yeah I'm sorry, I see your point. I hear there are a ton of great joints to eat out there, and I'm absolutely sure Mirecki's version of events and timeline are spot on. He was afterall the Chair of Religious Studies at KU and wouldn't lie especially to the police.

pepper_bar 9 years ago

HateTheYankees assumes, almost certainly correctly, that Evil Dr. P is reading all the LJW message boards related to his stories.

Hi, Evil Dr. P!

Bubarubu 9 years ago

Hear, hear to Miyagi. "Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. "--Ralph Waldo Emerson

Godot 9 years ago

"But Mirecki said the university had done little to back him and that he was fired as department chairman because he had the "temerity to challenge the power of the religious right in Kansas and the university capitulated to demands of the conservative minority."

There it is in a nutshell. Mirecki confirms that his motive in creating the class was a political vendetta against the political power of the religious right, not simply academic inquiry.

The fact that Mirecki was offering a class about intelligent design never would have erupted into a scandal if Mirecki, or whoever it was, had never contacted the Journal World about the new "mythology" class. When was the last time anyone saw the pronouncement of a new class at KU on the front page of the Journal World?

If Mirecki wants to blame anyone for this debacle, he should find out who told the Journal World about his new class in the first place. If he has to look in the mirror to do so, well, he has to live with that. He pulled a political stunt, and it backfired on him.

Godot 9 years ago

The LJW should post another photo of Mirecki, one that shows defensive bruises and scratches on his forearms and hands.

benchbear 9 years ago

Pay attention to Godot. Remember Mirecki's email - the "fundie" and "slap the fat face" part were not the real problem.

pepper_bar 9 years ago

support for Evil Dr. P appears to be waning on these boards.

Godot 9 years ago

If anyone can proove that Altevogt gave the JW the lead for the very first story announcing Mirecki's new course (the article that was published before Thanksgiving, and before the revelation of the "fat faced fundie" email), then I will stand corrected.

achtung 9 years ago

is it possible to have two pairs of glasses? maybe when purchasing a new pair you keep the old pair, just in case... you lose them while canoeing or getting beat up by the ignorant. far sighted people can drive without the help of glasses but need glasses to read or type. some of you people are really just dumb re-read what you post, seems like you need a good laugh.

our country is ruled by myth doesn't that scare you? is the sky falling, chicken little?

coach 9 years ago

The real reason the Sheriffs Dept is investigating it so deep is because during his interview he changed up his story. When they started catching him in his lies he began to backtrack. Now with the threat of possibly being charged with filing a false police report he hired a Lawyer.

benchbear 9 years ago

How dare HateTheYankees think the story is too convenient.

Just after Mirecki gets in hot water for turning his classroom into political activism and a chance to get on tv, he just happens to wake up very early one cold, dark morning and go for a drive when two fundie thugs had previously woken up to stalk his house, waiting for the chance to beat the hell out of him for having the temerity to challenge the power of the religious right in Kansas. For some reason, the thugs didn't jump him in the driveway on that dark morning, but decided to follow him, perhaps waiting for the sun to come up and for him to find an even more private place. Lucky for them, that particular morning, of all mornings, Mirecki decided to drive away from his place of work and to a dark, lonely rural rode where there would be no witnesses. Lucky for them, Mirecki was so deep in his thoughts that he never noticed those big truck headlights following him until they got right up on his bumper. Lucky for them, Mirecki was a considerate man who interpreted their threatening driving as a distress call. So he pulled over, they got out, and lucky for them, he got out to say hi. As luck would have it, Mirecki had led them to the perfect place to assault him and presented himself for the beating. But now it was Mirecki's turn to get lucky they barely hurt him and apparently a tinge of fundie conscience came over them as they fled back to their truck after all that planning and stalking gave him nothing more than a black eye and a little bruise on his shoulder. They got lucky again, as Mericki isn't able to tell anyone what they looked like, except that they looked like, well, two fundie rednecks. But he can remember how they made a reference to his class as they punched him. Oh, that part is clear, except for what they actually said. Now, Mirecki says he called the police from the side of the road, but unfortunately for him, he decided to drive to the hospital and can't recall where the assault took place. But luckily for him, he was able to teach his class that afternoon, where his students didn't remember anything unusual. And now he gets 2500 emails of support.

Mirecki has become a martyr among those who share his hatred for the religious right and it's the department's fault he got beat for not siding with him to begin with. The police? They'll soon be part of the right wing conspiracy too.

Nothing convenient about this.

Snoop 9 years ago

Posted by Godot
"When was the last time anyone saw the pronouncement of a new class at KU on the front page of the Journal World?" He pulled a political stunt, and it backfired on him." DITTO!! Posted by HateTheYankees "Look, let's not even allow this clown to create debate between us about Christianity and its competitors. This whole scenario is obviously staged. Everything in his story is just a little too convenient. Mirecki is the kid who got caught, and now he's trying to martyr himself and attract attention. Those bruises look like they were applied with makeup." DITTO!! "Dr. Mirecki: if you really "just want this to be over," stop being a one-man publicity machine. In case you didn't notice, YOU are the one keeping this story going. You called the LJW and the Kansan yourself to share your clearly fabricated sob story, now you are the one threatening lawsuits and claiming a lack of support." DITTO! "the idea that KU has violated your first amendment rights is ludicrous. Please reread it: you will find nothing about an organization failing to support an employee, especially when that employee is engaged in a transparent quest for media attention, going to great lengths and making up false assaults to receive that attention." DITTO! "The law enforcement agencies probably appear to not believe you because your story is so clearly false-- your inability, or unwillingness, to provide any details is proof of that." DITTO! By schweppy "I believe he brought the attack on himself for an entirely different reason. I think that everyone knows if someone is tailgating you and forcing you off the road, the last thing you do is pull over and get out. Especially if it is two pissed off conservative hillbillies in thier pick-up." DITTO, and speaking from the Negro perspective I strongly agree!! AND FINALLY! Posted by YetAgain "It's amazing all the folks on the right who have been calling Miercki (and the folks defending him) bigots and worse, immediately jumped to the conclusion that he faked his beating, is faking his bruises, etc., etc., ad naseum. The hate expressed here is beyond incredible. And by people who call themselves "Christians".

Plez, STFU, This intellectually elitist bastard thought that "attacking' Not disagreeing with... ATTACKING individuals faith was cool, funny. This socially inept atheist morons loved to show contempt and look down his nose at those who don't meet his intellectually superior guidelines by following some mythical Jesus figure. He and other elitist pricks take great pride in teaching and mocking individuals faith and spirituality. To you anti-Christian creeps, prove to the rest of us that mocking people of faith makes YOU a better and a more complete person. As far as I'm concerned lets hear it for the redneck beat down posse! Tho I know this crap was staged!

hottruckinmama 9 years ago

normally i'm a little left of center but i have to say that there is something wrong with that picture...i have 3 rough and tumble brothers 2 rough and tumble sons and i worked in a bar years ago..i've seen a lot of black eyes in my time and i've never seen anything like that. something is fishy. the whole story sounds fishy to me.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years ago

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact that he was going to be teaching this class would be public knowledge once it appeared in the KU timetable. Does it matter who "tipped" the LJW? They can read just like the rest of us.

Coach: How do you know he changed his story? You can't just "say" that. Back it up.

Mari Aubuchon 9 years ago

Bruising under both eyes as is evidenced by Professor Mirecki in the LJW photo indicates a blow to the nose, as has already been stated.

Because of the thinness of the tissue beneath the eyes, bruising is generally darker than that found on other parts of the body.

To those of you who seem to "know" more (benchbear, coach?) about the "facts" of this case and the resulting investigation than has been made public, I ask:

Where are you getting your information?

tir 9 years ago

I think that there really is a huge double standard regarding the right to free speech in the case of Professor Mirecki. Because he teaches at a state university he is being held to a very different standard of conduct than the vast majority of his detractors and accusers, many of whom have been freely spewing hate-filled words about him, about the University of Kansas, and about anyone else they disagree with. Mirecki is expected to engage in "civil discourse" and show no bias, while fundamentalists, ID-ologists, and religious conservatives are free to toss out expressions like "evil-utionist" and "crypto-Nazi" and are not expected to adhere to any standards of civility at all. They are merely defending their faith against the unbelievers, and besides, legislators and other secular authority figures are scared to death of becoming their next target.

Is that fair? I don't think so. Does the University have a right to curtail Mirecki's free speech as a condition of his employment? If there's a lawsuit, I guess we'll find out.

norm 9 years ago

This guy plays the "game" and becomes one of the "chosen": He has a State funded salary of WAY too much money; gets perks here, there, and everywhere and yet is so stupid as to post public remarks about the sham of a "class" he is going to start?

When one picks academics as a "profession" and then abandons concepts such as acaademic freedom, free speech, and helping out the disenfranchised, it's really hard to have one iota of sympathy for the boy with the silver spoon in his mouth which he CHOSE to place elsewhere.

I'd work for 1/3 the money this poor "academician" is paid. It will never happen because KU knows who and what I stand for.

Further, notice how easily TIM MILLER finds it stylish to distance himself from his cohort? Some "radical" MILLER has shown himself to be, huh?

Calliope877 9 years ago

I think he should sue KU. I've worked for KU before, and I know for a fact that they don't support their employees when they're having a rough time. KU would rather sweep it under the rug and forget about it instead of facing the music. Maybe they need a lawsuit filed against them to get with the program?

Guts 9 years ago

Tell that ugly woman to take that make up off.

MadAnthony 9 years ago

I am no megachurch pastor, but if I were I would do a press release offering $10,000 to anyone who would come forward and be a star witness in the prosecution over the beating of Doc Mirecki. Anyone know a pastor or wealthy ID backer of such daring spirit? The red necks may figure $10k is worth it to cop a plea on a battery charge, or, maybe someone else would come forward with information allowing a prosecution on a charge other than battery to go forward?

jayhawks71 9 years ago

The ignorance of Kansas. I love the anecdotal claims as support of why "this seems fishy." Same fools that believe in fairy tales use such a line of (il)logic.

The bruise "experts" and the bruise receivers who "never saw a bruise(s) like that." Morons.

Blame Mirecki for being in the paper, I suppose he moonlights as the editor the LJW and decides to put himself on the front page.

jayhawks71 9 years ago

Norm, why don't you tell us what Mirecki makes, it's public knowledge.

"abandons concepts such as acaademic freedom, free speech, and helping out the disenfranchised"

Academic freedom? How did he abandon academic freedom. The only things I have heard from people who have had Mirecki in the classroom is that he espouses academic freedom. Further, his course WOULD be adding the topic to a curriculum of study, just not the way the fundies wanted it portrayed. That's why its called freedom, he can do it how he wants.

Free speech? How has he trampled free speech? People can say what they want. He didn't threaten them to "shut up" or else. It appears that some goons (come on you chicken u know what's be proud of what you did and make yourself known!) did want to trample free speech.

helping out the disenfranchised? It appears, from the last national election that this "offended" group is plenty well enfranchised. How are the fundies disenfranchised. Look at the school board, look at the president...

a silver spoon? one who earns his way to the credentials and position of college professor must have had a silver spoon? Clearly you need to understand this language we call english and the metaphor contained within.

If you don't make 1/3 of what Mirecki makes, you CERTAINLY need to get a job. Again, tell us what Mirecki makes and tell us what you make. I am willing to bet that you make 1/3 what he makes.

black_watch 9 years ago

"Quote me ONE example of a street gang of right-wing Christians even being formed, let alone attacking someone. Just give me ONE link to a news story on that subject. Even one from The Inquirer would satisfy me."

--

THE CRUSADES.

How about the guys who beat folks like Matthew Shepherd? Or the KKK, who continue to try and hold rallies to support their bigoted cause? All purport to be doing it under the banner of God.

If you claim, as a Christian, that they're "not truly of the faith", then perhaps you should consider doing something about it, because they're waving your flag mighty high for everybody else to see.

Fight that bigotry, dishonesty, violence and intolerance. Somebody is going to have to stand up from amongst the ranks of the "Good" Christians. Finally, put a stop to the people who are using your God's name to perpetrate acts of hate and human misery.

Next time your friend, family member, or congregational member shows those tendencies and traits, why not start into a conversation with them about it? Call them on what you see to be negative traits relating to your religion. In short - pick a (non-violent) fight, and take back your God.

Intellectual property laws say that you are to defend your trademarks and patents against all infringement, or you lose the right to that intellectual property. That means that your competitors, if you do not defend your product's name, can start calling their products "Coca Cola" (or "Christian") without reprocussion if you do not assert your property rights in court.

Assert your rights as an enlightened and intelligent human being to have a faith unsullied by the actions of bigots, charlatans and hateful, greedy people.

kansasfire911 9 years ago

OK to answer the on going bruising saga. Someone can receive a massive enough head trauma to where the sweeling creates "racoon eyes". The same thing can happend when someone receives a basel skull fracture except the bruising would be behind the ears, or known as "Battles sign" named after some guy with last name of Battles. I'm just curious as to why he suing the University. KU did not fire him, right? Does he think he is so special he needs round the clock bodygaurds.

Heres something for you conspiracy theorist. I bet it was the Fred Phelps gang that did it. shhhhh

Charles L Bloss Jr 9 years ago

If you want it to be over Mirecki, quit whining like a 5 year old. Quit threatening to sue everybody. Take your toys and go home. Thank you, Lynn

james bush 9 years ago

Thanks LJW!!! This dumb-professor story is one of the more entertaining passive activities available in Lawrence. There are some really witty people, among some real dimwits, who make this worthwhile reading! Thanks again.

laughingatallofu 9 years ago

kansasfire911 writes...

<<< Does he think he is so special he needs round the clock bodygaurds.

Did I miss something here? Did he request 'round the clock bodyguards?

This a perfect example of what's wrong with this story. No facts (and the LJW isn't contributing many, but undoubtedly loving all of the activity on its board), but a lot of unsubstantiated accusations and outright character assassination.

When I was in grade school, this was called "piling on". Whether or not the victim deserved it, kids piled on. Very sad that adults should engage in this behavior.

kansasfire911 9 years ago

Laughingatallofu: It was just a question because Mireki stated. "If the University doesn't support me, I could be in more physical danger because the University is not standing up to the religious extremists," he said.

laughingatallofu 9 years ago

kansasfire911,

Nope. sorry. You're not integrating what you read in the article with what you wrote. He didn't request bodyguards (Did he? Where's your source?) Try again. Or not. I really could care less at what you "think". A lot of people here have "thoughts", but most of them are not based upon "fact"

LarryFarma 9 years ago

From post of OldEnuf2BYurDad, December 10, 2005 at 3:08 p.m.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact that he was going to be teaching this class would be public knowledge once it appeared in the KU timetable. Does it matter who "tipped" the LJW? They can read just like the rest of us.

OK, I will try to correct you, to the best of my ability.

It was my impression that the course was introduced with great fanfare. It immediately became national news. The course was announced on the website of the Religious Studies Department, but I think that if the course had been introduced quietly, it would have taken a while for it to be noticed. Mirecki's derogatory email made it obvious that he was trying to make a big splash. And at the time the course was announced, Mirecki said, "the KU faculty has had enough" (arrogantly presuming to speak for all KU faculty members). How many new courses are introduced with a statement like that?

ive_got_my_ascot_n_my_dickie 9 years ago

These days, when I hear the name Mirecki, the word "Titanic" comes to mind.

laughingatallofu 9 years ago

Wendt,

I don't know what you're talking about! There was no name calling here on this board today (or yesterday, or the day before, or the day before that). Was there?

When I was a kid, we called this "piling on". Whether or not the victim deserved it. Everyone "piled on".

Now, am my mistaken, or are there "adults" who are engaging on the above practice here?

lunacydetector 9 years ago

this totally changes the subject sort of, but i saw the following on an atheist/agnostic's website and thought i'd pass it on -great for the Christmas season.

"White Holiday" based on the famous Irving Berlin "White Christmas" song (something to look forward to in the not so distant future).

I'm dreaming of a white Holiday Just like the ones I used to know Where the treetops glisten, and children listen To hear sleigh bells in the snow I'm dreaming of a white Holiday With every Holiday card I write May your days be merry and bright And may all your Holidays be white I'm dreaming of a white Holiday With every Holiday card I write May your days be merry and bright And may all your Holidays be white

the politically correct cr*p has gotten outta hand. -LD

Shardwurm 9 years ago

LOL!

Only someone with really low self-esteem would give a rats azz about what our 'National Reputation' is.

I could give a flying flip what people in the rest of this country think about what we do here. I'm betting they all have a lot more problems at home to worry too much about what we're doing out here.

This professor is a fool. I don't care whether you're left or right wing - you have to agree this guy is an idiot.

Lib_ee12 9 years ago

It's a good thing that bruise landed on his shoulder. That silhouette(sp) picture wouldn't be near as pretty if a bruise landed on his lovely be-hiney!!

norm 9 years ago

Mirecki is NOT the issue here. The University of Kansas and freedom of thought and expression is.

Granted, Mirecki was more than hubristic in making, essentially, public posts about the "sham" he may have been intending on "teaching". Given the way the university functions these days, he could have been posing for a select group of students or such. Tenured professors no longer champion socially relavant issues these days due because they are all but bought and sold by signing up for Academia. One simply has to look at who of Mirecki's peers have come to his defense or support.

Social activism is pretty much dead amongst our Nation's higher education.

The issue about Mirecki is the failure of the intellectuals (are there any at KU anymore?) and the cowtowing of Hemmenway. All these people (university "club" members) make probably 3 or 4 times what the regularguy makes here in town so this worker isn't really interested in the personal issue of Mirecki. However, the continuing inability of a so called major institution of higher learning to foster an atmosphere which takes head on the issues of our times compels one to wonder when is it going to stop....the erosion of what influence academics can and should have in our society.

Because these bozo's make so much money, they're all pretty much bought and sold. And so it goes....

redneck 9 years ago

I would like to apologize for Mr. Mirecki being asulted. Not all of us religious conservatives (as we are called) resort to violence. All I can say is this is what happens when you push people too far. Why can't we simply agree to disagree, rather than making fun each other. It seems to me that quite a few liberals have an all out temper tamtram when others don't agree with them. To me this just makes you look very childish. I still can hardley believe Mr. Mirecki's comments about this class being a slap in our faces. Steping down was the right thing to do, because you don't respect others who don't agree with you. In fact, people who act like you should not be teaching at ANY University in this country. Also, you can't blame anybody else for ruining you're career. You did a slam-dunk job of that all by yourself, so don't be pointing you finger at anybody else. Rednecks have an old saying that goes like this: You made you're bed, now sleep in it.

Biodude 9 years ago

You're an idiot. Mirecki mad the "mistake" of treating his students like adults, and communicting with them in common language. I doubt that Mirecki would talk to Abrams in the same language. Why did the KBE do their dirtly little deed in the first place? Ignorance? Think of it..."get your money for nothin and your chicks for free." Read the KBE members latest responses to the new GOP opposition for their seats. Something like...hey, I'm not concerned if the RINOs want my seat...fine, it just shows that they should be democrats. They don't care if they are re-elected; their job is done! They succeeded in getting an absolutely bogus policy into play and rallied the troops to give more money and/or votes to the mission. The real issues are not science versus religion, but blue versus red! It is Pat Buchanan's platform; convince people that they have enemies to rally around and the coalescing of factions makes for a formadable politcal force. It is exactly why the thing happened that we are still in Iraq despite the lack of public support, why we elected a democrate despite being forced to have a republican, etc. Mirecki is right-on that "they" want blood, but mostly people of this country do not understand what "they" means. Basically, those pushing for intellignent design are (whether they know it or not) part of a well-planned scenario to "take back" this country. Take it back from the politically correct, take it back from all people that have gained success by their God-given talents, take it back from the ideology of Kennedy and King, etc. If these wackos can win in the state of Kansas that ID is science....well, they can certainly win the White House and continue their quest for world domination. Next step, have the President announce that suppression of scientific truth is appropriate; and preimtive war is in the national interest, even if you have to make-up WOMD to convince people; and that it is okay to torture people if they might be dangerous...oh...that's already happened! Plain and simple. There are more have nots, but if you can convince the stupid ones that you have what they want...you can win! Oppressed people need their religion...what else do they have...I know, let's go for that...what else can we go for, their right to health care, their right to education, their right to free speech...oh...I guess we've already taken those...I know...let's just get them really pissed-off so that they cause public unrest...then we can just bloody shoot them! Sound familiar...the beat goes on!

LawrenceMommy 9 years ago

"The bruise "experts" and the bruise receivers who "never saw a bruise(s) like that." Morons."

Jayhawks71 - Tell me how that makes me a moron? I am a critical care nurse specializing in trauma. Yes, you can get bruises like that...and as others (supporters!) have pointed out, that generally comes from massive head trauma. You can't generally teach a class later that afternoon in that condition. The type of head trauma that generally leads to bruises like that would leave all sorts of other bruising, internal injuries, brain trauma (perhaps that explains the attempt to sue the sheriff's department!), etc. Yes...some of us ARE experts on bruising and trauma.

Even if, through some freak of nature, those eye bruises are legitimate, though, the bruise on the arm DID NOT happen at the same time. The green/yellow color is from the byproducts of degradation of blood. That takes over a week to happen...period!

"nut cases posting against him don't have 1/3 training and skills he does, much less 1/3 the salary he deserves. notice it's always the un-skilled and un-educated that scream the loudest about pay."

Observer - Why do you assume that since we think the "good professor" made up the entire incident that we're un-skilled and un-educated? Personally, I don't want a religious studies professor examining me in the ER. I (and I'm sure many others on this sight) probably have more education and skills than the "good professor" does. I just chose to become well-rounded and earned multiple graduate degrees in differing fields. Don't assume that those that disagree are uneducated. From your writings, I assume we're often more educated.

lunacydetector 9 years ago

is biodude and Lulu one and the same?

MadAnthony 9 years ago

OK, goto the puff piece on the good doctor it you want that. An example of acamic elistist snobbery of the type that is probably common in KU's Religion (debunking) Department.

bige1030 9 years ago

I wish Prof. Mirecki good luck in everything that he does in order to seek justice out for all the wrongs done against him.

Bob Forer 9 years ago

This is not the first time that Hemenway has failed to support academics' rights to say things that may upset religious people, despite his stirring 2003 comments. American Atheists reported in 2000:

For months, an international support campaign has been protesting the dismissal of Dr. Fred Whitehead, prominent freethought historian and writer, from his position at the University of Kansas Medical Center. Fred, an Assistant Professor, was with that institution for 21 years; he was abruptly informed in December, 1999 that his research no longer presumably fit the mission of that institution.

In fact, Dr. Whitehead was an outspoken critic of a dangerous and constitutionally suspect trend at the University. The Medical Center has sponsored meetings, seminars and conferences claiming to link physical health with religious and spiritual belief. Whitehead -- also a leading figure in the fight over creationist pseudoscience in Kansas public schools -- spoke out, and organized his own gatherings.

:A recent campaign generated hundreds of letters, faxes, and phone calls to Robert Hemenway, Chancellor of the University.

The campaign did no good, and Whitehead is no longer associated with the university.

LarryFarma 9 years ago

From post of TheSychophant, December 12, 2005 at 12:45 a.m.

This is not the first time that Hemenway has failed to support academics' rights to say things that may upset religious people, despite his stirring 2003 comments. American Atheists reported in 2000:

For months, an international support campaign has been protesting the dismissal of Dr. Fred Whitehead, prominent freethought historian and writer, from his position at the University of Kansas Medical Center. Fred, an Assistant Professor, was with that institution for 21 years; he was abruptly informed in December, 1999 that his research no longer presumably fit the mission of that institution.

In fact, Dr. Whitehead was an outspoken critic of a dangerous and constitutionally suspect trend at the University. The Medical Center has sponsored meetings, seminars and conferences claiming to link physical health with religious and spiritual belief.

Dr. Whitehead's own story of the events makes no mention of "seminars and conferences claiming to link physical health with religious and spiritual belief." Whitehead did say that he sponsored a scholarly conference that was a direct response to the Kansas school board's August 1999 ruling against evolution theory. This conference, besides having the frivolous title "Monkey Business in Kansas," arguably had an inappropriate topic for a conference at the KU Medical Center (however, the decision to dismiss Whitehead might have been made before this conference was announced).

-- from http://www.louisville.edu/journal/workplace/whitehead.html

In August 1999, a majority of the Kansas State Board of Education voted to remove key concepts of the theory of evolution from tests given to high school students in the state. This prompted intense international publicity, projecting an image of Kansas in 1999 as backward as Tennessee in 1925. In response, I personally agreed to sponsor a scholarly conference, "Monkey Business in Kansas," to be held at the Medical Center November 5-6, 1999. Two days before the conference, Linda Davies, Director of Academic Support, telephoned me and directly charged me with falsely representing that the Department of Family Medicine had sponsored the event. I replied that I was personally sponsoring it as a faculty member. The next day, Ed Phillips, Vice Chancellor for Administration, telephoned and similarly berated me: "You have been," he charged, "less than forthcoming about the sponsorship of this event." He added: "The University cannot support events like this." (according to Whitehead, the conference took place as planned)

These professors would probably not be having such a hard time getting respect for their "academic freedom" if they did not choose frivolous biased titles for their courses and conferences. How much "academic freedom" is there to choose a course title like, "Evolution Theory and Other Mythologies"?

LarryFarma 9 years ago

Continued from my post of 12/12/05 at 5:10 AM --

This whole story about Dr. Whitehead seems very fishy, because the story includes the following far-fetched items ---

After the formality of a questionable "hearing," Whitehead, 56, was officially terminated from his position in July, 2000. The University even contested his claim for unemployment compensation after he refused to accept a clerical job filing paperwork with the school. -- from http://www.atheists.org/action/whitehead.html

It is very doubtful that the university would have contested his claim on such frivolous grounds -- a clerical job was obviously not suitable employment.

My dismissal occurred as the Dean ordered, on June 30, 2000. The University refused to pay me several thousands of dollars for unused sick leave accrued, on the grounds that I had been terminated, and had not retired. -- from http://www.louisville.edu/journal/workplace/whitehead.html

A big employer like KU presumably has clearcut written policies covering all possibilities regarding payment for unused sick leave. I doubt that something like this was left open to question.

Calliope877 9 years ago

Posted by redneck (anonymous) on December 10, 2005 at 10:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I would like to apologize for Mr. Mirecki being asulted. Not all of us religious conservatives (as we are called) resort to violence. All I can say is this is what happens when you push people too far. Why can't we simply agree to disagree, rather than making fun each other. It seems to me that quite a few liberals have an all out temper tamtram when others don't agree with them. To me this just makes you look very childish. I still can hardley believe Mr. Mirecki's comments about this class being a slap in our faces. Steping down was the right thing to do, because you don't respect others who don't agree with you. In fact, people who act like you should not be teaching at ANY University in this country. Also, you can't blame anybody else for ruining you're career. You did a slam-dunk job of that all by yourself, so don't be pointing you finger at anybody else. Rednecks have an old saying that goes like this: You made you're bed, now sleep in it."

Okay, first of all, learn how to spell.

Second of all, if I remember correctly, it was a couple of REDNECKS throwing a temper tantrum when they beat Mirecki up because he said some things they didn't agree with. They made a choice to not agree that they disagreed with Mirecki's views, and resorted to the juvenile behavior of using their fists instead of their words to disagree with their victim. So in a way, you're a hypocrite. Maybe you should practice what you preach instead of condoning the assault (correct spelling) on Professor Mirecki by saying that he "pushed people too far" and he "made his bed, now sleep in it" just because he wrote some words in an email that got national attention through the efforts of a fascist coward.

There's another saying I'd like to share with you: "Sticks and stones might break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Maybe the Rednecks that beat Mirecki up should've taken that saying into consideration?

MadAnthony 9 years ago

True. And maybe rednecks did not beat up Dr. Mirecki. Agreed?

Calliope877 9 years ago

MadAnthony:

"True. And maybe rednecks did not beat up Dr. Mirecki. Agreed?"

Yeah, maybe it was those damn Soccor Moms....they can get pretty agressive.

MadAnthony 9 years ago

So, Calliope, you simply cannot even consider that your cult hero may have been behind his own alleged victimization, can you? But I bet you subscribe to all sorts of conspiracy theories to explain the narratives of the New Testament and other biblical texts.

As I have stated before, liberals think critically only when critisizing conservatives. Just one of the many reasons we are making solid and certain gains in Kansas. (Katy bar the door!)

Calliope877 9 years ago

Mad Anthony,

I never claimed Mirecki to be my cult hero. I think he said what he felt, and the last time I checked, this was a free country. Mirecki expressed his views to a group of people he felt comfortable with. It wasn't on a public forum. His emails to this group was made public by someone who didn't agree with him. I don't necessarily agree with all of Mirecki's view, but he is entitled to them, and he shouldn't be beat up for them in a country that encourages free speech.

You're assumption that I subscribe to "all sorts of conspiracy theories to explain the narratives of the New Testament" is hypocritical coming from someone who previously posted that noone should ASSUME anything about ANYONE.

I grew up in a strict household of religious thought, and I took those thoughts for what they were...just thoughts. And I dismissed conspiracy theories tied to those thoughts because they were other thoughts I didn't agree with, but I'm not going to persecute people for having those controversial thoughts. The Christian perception is a perception that has lasted for generations, and I personally don't think there's anything wrong with exploring it as a mythology. I'm comfortable enough with my faith to be open-minded to perceptions of others. How about you?

Calliope877 9 years ago

I meant, "Your assumption..." at least I can catch these grammatical errors...

MadAnthony 9 years ago

Calliope. Two posts and you still dodged the question. Babble on to yourself, I am off to the land of mythology and Freudian symbology.

Calliope877 9 years ago

How did I dodge the question? I answered you by saying that he wasn't my "cult hero" and that he didn't deserve to beat up!

Perhaps you're not very good at reading the thoughts of people who disagree with you?

You're obviously the one who's babbling...is that why you gave yourself the handle of MadAnthony?

Calliope877 9 years ago

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to write an essay on Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" and on Eli Wiesel's "Night".

And what a Brave New World it is...and there's such a long Night ahead!!!

wonderhorse 9 years ago

Mad

Do you really believe that he hired somebody to beat him up? Or that he didn't get beaten up?

MadAnthony 9 years ago

Cal and Wonderhorse,

I can truly state that I do not know, and sincerely state that I believe the truth may be: 1. That bible thumpers turned irreligion prof thumpers. (IE what Doc Mirecki says happened is essentially true.) 2. That aetheists beat the Doc up without him realizing it was a ruse. 3. As 2 above, with him being involved in the ruse. 4. As above, sans the aetheists, instead just persons the Doc hired. 5. The doc did it to himself, no helpers needed.

That is about it on the options as I see it. I can state that all five are on the table for me. Calliope cannot. Can you wonderhorse?

I suggest that if you cannot then you have made up your mind on something other than the evidence. Maybe on myth?

wonderhorse 9 years ago

I suggest that a man got beat up by somebody that disagreed with his point of view. Do you have any evidence to contradict his story? No? Have you ever had to tell about being beaten to the police (yes, I have)? I didn't even get a black eye, or a concussion, and I still got the story wrong. Fortunately, LPD is good enough that they understood my story and arrested the right guys (they confessed). The man (Mirecki) got beat up by some of my right wings, who happen to beat their bibles. They ought to read them.

You don't have the evidence--you just have newspaper reports. No, we don't have the right to have everything reported in the newspaper. The police have the responsibility to withhold facts in order to pursue their case.

Calliope877 9 years ago

Posted by MadAnthony (anonymous) on December 12, 2005 at 10:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Cal and Wonderhorse,

I can truly state that I do not know, and sincerely state that I believe the truth may be: 1. That bible thumpers turned irreligion prof thumpers. (IE what Doc Mirecki says happened is essentially true.) 2. That aetheists beat the Doc up without him realizing it was a ruse. 3. As 2 above, with him being involved in the ruse. 4. As above, sans the aetheists, instead just persons the Doc hired. 5. The doc did it to himself, no helpers needed.

That is about it on the options as I see it. I can state that all five are on the table for me. Calliope cannot. Can you wonderhorse?"

Sounds to me that you don't know what's going on. And it also sounds like YOU'RE the one entertaining conspiracy theories and MYTHS. Lay off the reefer for a while, dude.

leonbrooks 9 years ago

We have no evidence, either way, besides Paul's own testimony. Given the glaring duplicity exposed by a comparison of his previous public statements against the "leaked" email, I'd be inclined to trust Paul about as far as I could throw him.

My guess is that what really happened is he did get beaten up (whether by idiots enraged at his actions or by randoms I do not know, and it's probably irrelevant anyway), and is making as much capital as possible from the event.

I don't understand why he needs to sue if the University has been supportive all along. Perhaps I'd understand if I was a US resident?

As to "The University penalized me and denied me my Constitutionally protected right to speak and express my mind", that's complete bulldust. The University evidently hasn't prevented Paul from speaking his mind, and it is under no obligation to expend government funds to provide him with a special forum for expressing those views. If he wants to do that, let him stand on a fruit crate and harange whatever crowd shows up, same as anybody else.

Paul did not treat his students like adults. Paul mocked and insulted his opponents rather than taking them seriously, facing them and defeating them with superior reasoning. That behaviour is not adult, it is juvenile.

I see it being echoed by many others posting to this page. "Nyah-nyah-ny-nyah-nyah, you suck! Idiots! Losers! Morons!" -- oh, so helpful!

Read my lips (well, my keys anyway): you will not "win" a debate in any useful way by discounting, mocking or ignoring your opponents. Not ever. You must match logic for logic, evidence with evidence and reason your way through instepwith your opponent if you expect to win. And I'm betting that most of you can't do that.

PoeticHeteroSapien 9 years ago

You clearly don't live here, Leon, if you think that "match[ing] logic for logic, evidence with evidence and reason[ing] your way through" has ever successfully reached fundamentalists of any sort, least of all the people pushing the Wedge Strategy (google it!) here in the United States.

MadAnthony 9 years ago

Sapine is correct, only about the wrong camp. The Left is irrational and most often elevates dogma over evidence. For example, I reasonably laid out the five most probable explanations for the bruises on Doc M a few posts above, and a leading leaping leftist contributing to the discussion lodges the allegation, in the face of a rational post, that I am smoking rope. In other words, that my rational post is actually quite irrational. How does one debate with such folks? Theory, evidence, conclusion is not on the table for them. They are so dogmatic that they will suffer no intelligent debate on what they already know.....that evolution is always the right answer, that Doc Mirecki is gifted with infallibility, that abortion is a moral good, and that marriage is a social construct that can be redefined at the whim of the next generation, just to name a few dogmas popular on Mass Str. And, if the left have it their way, in the public schools of Kansas, with no dissenting views allowed.

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