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Archive for Wednesday, August 17, 2005

Prison, deportation not enough to satisfy father

Sentencing guidelines call for 5 1/2 years, then immigrant will be returned to Mexico

August 17, 2005

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An illegal immigrant from Mexico was sentenced Tuesday to five and a half years in prison for killing a young nurse with his car while driving drunk.

"I apologize for the pain I have caused," Adan S. Cruz, 23, told Douglas County District Judge Robert Fairchild with the assistance of a translator. "I didn't want to do this."

Cruz, who had been living in Lawrence, struck and killed Jodie Hatzenbihler, a 25-year-old nurse from Olathe, as she walked across Sixth Street in the early morning of April 9 after leaving Cadillac Ranch, 2515 W. Sixth St.

The judge's sentence wasn't enough for Hatzenbihler's father, Dean. He said the Kansas Legislature hamstrings judges with sentencing guidelines set by state statute. Dean Hatzenbihler also said if Cruz had been deported after his first drunken driving charge, his daughter might still be alive.


Adan Cruz, 23, in orange jumpsuit, is sentenced for his role in the April 9 death of Jodie Hatzenbihler, a 25-year-old nurse from Olathe. Cruz was driving under the influence of alcohol when his car struck Hatzenbihler, who was crossing the street with friends after leaving the Cadillac Ranch, 2515 W. Sixth St. At left is Cruz's attorney, Shelley Bock.

Adan Cruz, 23, in orange jumpsuit, is sentenced for his role in the April 9 death of Jodie Hatzenbihler, a 25-year-old nurse from Olathe. Cruz was driving under the influence of alcohol when his car struck Hatzenbihler, who was crossing the street with friends after leaving the Cadillac Ranch, 2515 W. Sixth St. At left is Cruz's attorney, Shelley Bock.

"We miss her every day," Dean Hatzenbihler said. "We miss her every moment."

Fairchild based Cruz's sentence on guidelines created by state law. Cruz was sentenced to 66 months, or five and a half years, for involuntary manslaughter and 12 months in jail for drunken driving. Cruz was ordered to serve the sentences concurrently.

Cruz also had a prior drunken driving charge. It's likely that once he completes his prison sentence, he will be deported to Mexico because he has been convicted of a felony. Cruz wasn't previously deported as a result of the drunken driving charge because it wasn't a felony.

Four people at the sentencing spoke about Jodie Hatzenbihler, including her friend Kate Lynn, who spoke of Hatzenbihler's sparkling personality and details of the night she died. Lynn was with Hatzenbihler and other friends that evening.

"We spent the night dancing," Lynn said.

When the group of friends left the bar, there were no cars on the street. She said she didn't immediately see the car that hit Hatzenbihler. But Lynn said there were no brake lights - just the constant noise of the engine.

"You hit Jodie so hard that she flew into the air and did a flip," Lynn said. "I had to run to get to her."

Lynn spoke of her depression since Hatzenbihler's death. The two worked together at KU Med. She said she had hiding places at work where she goes to cry.

"It's hard to continue nursing, but I know leaving would be against her (Jodie's) wishes," she said.

Lawrence attorney Shelley Bock, who represented Cruz, said he believed his client was "truly sorry."

Dean Hatzenbihler talks about his daughter, Jodie Hatzenbihler, with her high school senior portrait at his side during Cruz's sentencing. Dean Hatzenbihler left Jodie's photo on the witness stand after he finished speaking.

Dean Hatzenbihler talks about his daughter, Jodie Hatzenbihler, with her high school senior portrait at his side during Cruz's sentencing. Dean Hatzenbihler left Jodie's photo on the witness stand after he finished speaking.

Cruz came to the United States to work, Bock said. Cruz had two jobs and worked 70 hours a week.

"He's not an ogre," Bock said. "He has a family and supporters and people who care about him."

Several factors may have contributed to the accident in addition to Cruz driving drunk, he said. Hatzenbihler had also been drinking, Bock said.

Bock noted that there have been other incidents near the same site Hatzenbihler was struck. It was nearly the exact same place and manner in which a Baker University student was struck and critically injured last November.

Comments

armyguy 8 years, 8 months ago

Hey, I have a perfect idea of what to do with this guy. Lets put him indentured servitude, we could start by sending him to Iraq to run gun truck missions. We could make sure that he does not have an uparmored hummer, like the ones we drive here in Iraq. Having IED's blow up next to him might give him a reality check as to the destruction that a vehicle can do. After a year or so of doing that he could be our tower/gate guards at check points. If they survive being shot at and attempts of being run over or blown to bits by Iraq's version of a drunk drivers aka suicide bombers on a jihad, perhaps we could let them go home or what the heck, just leave them here, they might just learn something. Either way I don't think he would not be quite as fast to get behind the wheel of any vehicles.

From Iraq....

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us_army_infantry_soldier 8 years, 8 months ago

Well what can I say... hmmm... bitter debate about racsim and illegal immigrants... drunk driving.... on and on and on and on .......

Well needless to say these issues and debates can and will go on forever. Everyone take a deep breath... and exhale... ahhh much better huh?

Now my turn.

The young lady might have been drunk as well as Adan Cruz, never-the-less, she didnt deserve to die. I dont care who you are if you kill some one you deserve to rot in prison where you can be haunted by what you did till you die. However, God will decide your ultimate fate. Not Man. We just help speed up the process sometimes.

I think everyone needs to show a little respect to the young girls family. Just because Im white and I believe this needs to be done, doesnt make me a racsist, so before anyone makes any comments about it just hold your breath. I am a soldier deploying with 500 others in the next few months and I am friends with a lot of people of other ethnic backgrounds. I would give my life for any of them. And because I may have to take a life over there does that make me a racist agains Muslims? Or if Im a little paranoid about dark skinned people of Iraq after watching my buddies being blown apart just so people here can retain the right to call people racist, will that make me racist? No so get over it. Some people give all so you can have all just remember that when you start ranting over this post.

Drinking and Driving: Well Im dead set against it. I have seen a lot of messed up situations while going on calls with the LPD because of Drinking. Driving is the absolute worst thing someone could do while intoxicated. If you are out there, at a bar, club or just at a house party, you know damn well you shouldn't get behind the wheel. You know what alcohol does to you and you must pay for your decision to do it.
I dont agree that 5 1/2 years in prison is enough. For ANYONE!

The border issue is something the government needs to handle, in time, I think this is going to happen. Heck I even see us (soldiers) getting deployed just to help secure our borders both North and South(honestly I think it should have already happened). We need to do whatever we can to do to protect our country. Weather it be along Mexico or Canada. Its a problem on both borders. However, because Mexicans are pouring over the border like a river and Im making a comment about it then in some eyes that must make me a racist. Whatever. The point is something needs to be done.

Final Comments. To the family of Jodie Hatzenbihler, my heart hurts for your loss. No one should ever have to grieve for such a tragedy. Just remember that Jodie will always be with you.

Sincerly,

us_army_soldier of Lawrence, KS

"God Bless the U.S.A."

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LawrenceMommy 8 years, 8 months ago

Ummm...one more thing, Staff04...illegals don't have the same deductions as you and I because they can't legally buy houses like we can. You don't see many financial institutions lining up to give illegal immigrants mortgages...that's just pretty risky. Gee! They're here illegally and we have no recourse if they don't pay...Yeah! Let's give them a mortgage! Please!!! Unless you itemize, you don't miss out on the deductions and it's nearly impossible to itemize without owning a house (no...medical expenses won't do it because there's a minimum floor of 7.5% of AGI PLUS the standard deduction before you can deduct them).

So...even if your lame argument that "I didn't really say what I did and I meant they pay a higher rate" were true, it's still wrong! Sorry...you just can't win this one. Go back to school and learn something other than journalism and poly sci.

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LawrenceMommy 8 years, 8 months ago

"Oh, and by the way--if you had actually researched ANYTHING regarding illegal immigrants, you would find that THEY PAY A HIGHER TAX RATE than you. That's how they avoid being deported..." (Capitals added)

Tell me, you lying moron, how did I twist the quote above to say that you said they pay a higher tax rate when you claim you never said that???

Go ahead and make attacks and claim that since I am a conservative that I twisted your words...pretty lame since the quote above contains the words you deny saying. I understand why you are "checking out of this one for awhile"...getting a little embarrassed??? I would be, were I you.

You are wrong, plain and simple...period. And since you can't admit it you will just attack everyone for quoting you and then blame it on conservatism. How pathetic...but expected.

Classic tool of the left: Say something...put it in writing so there's proof...then deny, deny, deny that you ever said it. Do you really think we all can't read? Good Lord!

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

I never said they were being TAXED at a higher rate bob, I said they were PAYING a higher rate than you, which by not taking deductions makes my statement accurate. The CPA twisted my statement to say they were being taxed at a higher rate. Classic tool of the right. Take what the left says, twist it, and spit it back at them.

Okay, I'm going to check out of this one for a while as it has been making me highly unproductive. I'll take a piece of my own advice and not argue anymore over the internet. It's been a pleasure, I'm sure I'll be back.

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one_more_bob 8 years, 8 months ago

staff04, that's pretty lame. They are being taxed at the same rate. Not taking deductions when filing a return does not affect how much you have paid, only the amount you get back. An illegal has the same amount taken out of his paycheck that a legal resident does (if deductions are equal).

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

What I'm referring to is the fact that unless they are being paid under the table, which I'll admit happens in some instances but certainly not the majority, they are paying income taxes and social security, but because of their illegal status they don't file for refunds. Also, they don't get to deduct for their homes or other expenses like you do, therefore, they are paying a higher rate than you.

OE2BYD--your point about there being more than one person to blame here is dead on, but when I tried to make it with more emotion, I got slammed.

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Angie Dick 8 years, 8 months ago

Why is it that everyone has to be so harsh? The poor girl lost her life to someone, that shouldn't have been in the us to begin with! Just think about? put the shoes on the other feet! If it were a family memeber or a loved one of yours, you'd feel the same way her folks do! It is just a shame, that 1 life was lost but the other get's to live, ya he may feel heart felt ect. But ya never really know! It's just to bad that things, like this happen! 2 wrongs NEVER make a right but I do think, if you do the crime you pay the time but the goverment, has it all messed up! 1 person can commit the same crime as the other and do less time?? That isn't right? I am not saying I am right or wrong But if it were my child, or a loved one I'd feel the same way! Hope I didn't offend anyone!

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LawrenceMommy 8 years, 8 months ago

Staff04 - I'm going to join Jay_Z and ask what on Earth you're blabbering about with tax rates. I also happen to be a CPA with a specialty in Income Tax and I have never heard of illegals paying different tax rates...and I can assure you I have done about a million tax returns and seen almost every "trick" there is. I have to assume this is something you've either made up to make some illogical point or something you've heard and were naive enough to believe. Either way, you're just wrong. Sorry...but you can just chalk it up to learning.

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cristBwithU 8 years, 8 months ago

The family has my heart felt sympathies and prayers.

Great point Old enough..... I can recall another incident with a drunk driver and drunk pedestrian in Lawrence. The wealthy republican man hit and killed a homeless man. He got 90 days and probation. Hmmmm ...

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Jay_Z 8 years, 8 months ago

Well said LawrenceMommy....

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Jay_Z 8 years, 8 months ago

Staff04, your blabbering on here is painful to read. Yeah, just go ahead and throw the race card out there when there in fact is NO issue with race involved, very well thought out argument....I am sure you would get along quite well with Jesse Jackson. Like OMB said, please explain how illegals pay a higher tax rate to avoid being deported. Staff04, it is obvious you are full of ----.

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LawrenceMommy 8 years, 8 months ago

Oh get off your soapboxes and quit accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being a racist. That's a pretty intolerant opinion, don't you think? Someone disagrees with me, so they must be racist...get over yourselves!!!

I don't care if you're hispanic, black, white, asian, or whatever else there might be! If you're in this country illegally you ought to have your ass kicked out! You don't deserve a penny of my taxpayer money or our social benefits just because you were too dishonest to do it the right way. Just because the visible majority happen to be hispanic doesn't mean I'm a racist. They are the criminals and the problem...not me!

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macon47 8 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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onehotmomma 8 years, 8 months ago

oldenuf - I agree with you. Two wrongs don't make a right - two drunks aren't so good either. Drunk drivers aren't the only one's who make poor choices, any person in public that is intoxicated makes poor decisions. Everyone hears about not drinking and driving, a drunk pedestrian can make just as poor decisions. The only difference is, they can step out in front of MY car - I don't drink - thus changing my life because of their drunken decision making.

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consumer1 8 years, 8 months ago

Staff 04 you sure are hateful. I'll bet your boss won't approve of all you said.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 8 months ago

In the years I've lived in Lawrence, I can remember of two fatal pedestrian car accidents involving adult pedestrians. In both cases, both the driver and the pedestrian were drunk. I hope this is not insensitive... but she needs to be considered partially responsible for what happened. And where was she going when she got hit? To her CAR, parked across the street. Was she going to drive home?

As a society, we take alcohol far too lightly. I have six unopened bottles of wine in my house, so I'm not calling for a ban (not until I drink my bottle of Caribbean cashew wine!), but I do think we need to quit acting like getting smashed is no big deal.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 8 months ago

By the way, Staff4, nothing I said indicated that I believed that an illegal white was less a problem than an illegal non-white. If what I said about illegal immigration and crime was correct, then it would obviously apply to white illegals as well. I fail to see where all your fire comes from. I mean, you make it seem as if we are all keeping an illegal locked in our basements and only let them out to mow the lawn.

You call me racist as if I want to keep all darkies out of the good ol WHITE USA. It's funny you say that. Just the other day I was telling my wife how much I like El Mezcal because of the strong work ethic demonstrated by the immigrants working there. There we have an example of what appears to be a legit business with non-white's working their asses off and living the American dream. I think I speak for a lot of us nasty non-liberals when I say that THAT is the real American experience, and worthy of applause. Many of our German, Italian and Irish came here and did that, and anyone who is willing to bring that kind of ethic and heart to this country is welcome. But, don't tell me that anyone who jumps the border and then milks the system should be considered to be in the same boat. They aren't. They are leeches, not nieghbors.

Really... maybe you should tone it down before you blow a vein in your brain.

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Lynn731 8 years, 8 months ago

The sentences should have run consecutively, even that is far from enough time. I'd sentence him to life without parole. If we, as a country, don't stop this influx of illegal mexicans we soon will be in the minority. We will be forced to learn spanish. I agree that the liberals around here won't do what needs to be done. The vigilantes on the border have the right idea. My deepest sympathy goes out to the family of that young nurse killed. My prayers, too.

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grimpeur 8 years, 8 months ago

People, please! We've AGAIN lost sight of the real issue here. If this man had not driven drunk, the woman would probably still be alive. You can deport all the people you want (and they come from everywhere because we, as the world's leading consumers, demand cheap goods and services), but that's not going to solve the problem of drunk drivers. Had this illegal immigrant not been in the U.S. in the first place, there would have been a drunk U.S. citizen to take his place behind the wheel.

And there still will be when he's gone.

What do we do about that? What will the judge say next time there's a three-time DUI before the bench? Diversion? Again? What will his attorney ask for when the next guy comes in with his fourth ticket for 30 mph over the limit? Diversion? Again?

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one_more_bob 8 years, 8 months ago

"if you had actually researched ANYTHING regarding illegal immigrants, you would find that they pay a higher tax rate than you. That's how they avoid being deported..." Okay, please explain that. I don't remember anything on the W4/W2/Wwhatever that I could check off for being an illegal alien.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 8 months ago

Staff4:

Here's YOUR lesson in racism: Why do you assume I'm NOT dark-skinned?! Do you see how YOU also have pre-judged (which is where we get the word "prejudice") me? My skin is nearly as dark as the defendant's in this story, and my mother's is much darker. In your fervor to keep us all from crossing the prejudice line, you fell all over it. You are prejudicial, which is no different from being a racist.

Once again, we see how even those who fancy themselves as "liberal" are really JUST as narrow-minded as the conservatives they claim to have risen above. You are a leftist, and may consider yourself a member of the enlightened intelligencia; but it seems that you are just as trapped in your personal dogma as the rest of us.

Me and Fred Phelps and the Grand Wizard are getting together for drinks after the cross-burning tonight. You should join us all and have a few beers.

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

dkbear-- Oh for f's sake. once again, you win.

"Oh, I know a lot of black people." Ever heard that one before, because it sounds a heckuva lot like your last post? It's just as pathetic when you say it as it is when anyone else says it.

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BriarFox 8 years, 8 months ago

staff04 SO What, you work for a member of the U.S. Congress. Your a part of the problem and showing your stupidity. It is NOT raceism! It is about NON Americans sneeking across our borders and taking advantage of our services. GO GO GO to New Mexico and ask them them about the problems with many,many murders on they border and tell them how wrong they are

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dkbear2 8 years, 8 months ago

To your 1st question, the answer is option B (head up your expletive).

I mow my own lawn.

I have several co-workers and neighbors that are Mexican, one Mexican Irish, Taiwanese, Granada, and etc all are of course well established citizens with whom I can relate, work, have lunch with etc. No issues.

PS to your first question. I might soon have that pleasure; I'm now a minority in Texas and a righty.

PS catch the first flight back to CA, I know you're not from my home state. Your much to....... and you hate anyone who is American, willing to fight for freedom, has a saving account, wants to excel in life, works, isn't a radical, likes beef, believes in God, etc.

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

Con1-

Don't know Marci...did my ignorant, liberal, head up my rear snob miss a joke?

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drc 8 years, 8 months ago

Wow. Most of the comments have very serious racial overtones! First, 5 years for taking a lif--too short! Secondly, I say racial overtones because we rarely look at one of the major causes. Employment! We never go after the people hiring immigrants without a legal permit to work. That would our neighbor with the lawn care business, or the holder of Farmland stock, or maybe the McDonald's Franchise owner. I take that back, most of those people are not our neighbors, they tend to live in gated communities. Illegal immigration is just another way of providing cheap labor. I know we love cheap labor---right? Be relealistic, illegal immigration has been going on for a bit now. They work for the beefpacking plants, in the fruit-picking business, as dishwashers, maids, anyways you get the point. I don't want to say it has been a replacement for slavery, but when has this country not had a cheap source of labor. I still think Lawrence is an EXCELLENT city.

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

When's the last time anyone on the right cried foul at someone being racist? If it has happened since I've been alive, I must have been missing it...Or else had my liberal head up my liberal posterior. Oh, you're right, that must have been it. Get off it. Mexicans, Mexicans, Mexicans--insurance, penalties, blah, blah, blah... Until you want someone to mow your lawn. You hate anyone who isn't white and that is who you are. Why don't you just admit it?

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dkbear2 8 years, 8 months ago

The old racial card played again. Student now living in Texas has a funny story. Many cities around DFW area are passing laws that allows police to tow and impound vehicles when no insurance was provided by the at fault owner. You don't get your car back until you can provide proof and you're still ticketed.
The funny part is that the population of Mexicans, even their political figures, publicly claimed this was directed at Mexicans both legal and illegal. Yes, it just so happens that most of the citizens without insurance are of that background, but that doesn't matter. The issue is that in Texas, not so much so in Kansas, it's essential that you have Uninsured Motorist coverage (it's extra) because of the potential is so high you will be hit by someone without insurance. My wife was 2 years ago. The law simple makes the penalty reach deeper into your pockets and most importantly that at least one more driver will have insurance for 6 months.

People claiming racism do so to rally support or to fend off opposition. We've got to ensure we stop crying wolf so we can address true issues in racism.

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hotatlanta 8 years, 8 months ago

So what is the problem, he gets 5.5 years, perhaps it should have happened here in Marietta, GA. Heck his fellow country man came out of the bar just past noon, got in his truck, and ran over, and killed 3 high school students. It was in the summer, which is why the girls were not in school, but had just finished, doing some shopping. So what was his sentence, the judge called INS and asked that he be sent home. The outcry from this sentence came from the Mexican Consulate that we were picking on his fellow countryman, we didn't understand their culture, in his country fellow workers have a few at lunch, or was it for lunch. I has been over a year since I read the reply.

He should have apologized to the families, and then justice would be handled in his country. No he could not do that, because this man will be back in 6 months sending thousand of dollars back to his country, and purchasing another pick up truck to drive to work in. This makes good economic sense for both sides of the border, doesn't it?

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

Oh, and by the way--if you had actually researched ANYTHING regarding illegal immigrants, you would find that they pay a higher tax rate than you. That's how they avoid being deported...

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macon47 8 years, 8 months ago

we should welcome all the illegals to lawrence they are no different that the homelesss and we think they are pretty chummy to have around. of course alot of the illegals at least want to work and all the homeless want to do is steal enough stuff for booze and smokes. you dont hear them whining about high priced gasoline

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

OE2BYD-- What I'M saying is that if this were some ILLEGAL immigrant who was white, you would be silent. That's all. The only illegal immigration I see people concerned about (and to preface, I work for a member of the U.S. Congress and hear a lot about this issue) is brown people. Just stop. You look like a fool when you charge around bitching about illegal immigration when you and your cronies ingnore all the non-brown illegals. Trust me, you are surrounded by them. Stop trying to fool yourself.

To address the rest of your statement, I will simply qoute you: "You can't intelligently say that it's possible to protect society while at the same time ignoring illegal activity" She was committing a crime as well. By ignoring that fact and placing sole blame on illegal immigrants, you show not only your ignorance, but your racism.

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BriarFox 8 years, 8 months ago

Were have lived in Lawrence for 12 years before moving to St.Simons Island Georgia. I bet our family are the only Democrats on the Island but we LOVE Lawrence! The posts are all over the map. We had a town hall meeting in Arizona about this same subject 25 years ago, let me say that again 25 years. We do LOVE the free exchange of ideas and thought of the people of Lawrence. The very same topics were discussed "then" People say "They do the jobs no American will do" "There just trying to make a better life for there Family, the USA was founded on immigration "

I do have to say the people of Lawrence need to FOCUS, yes it is tragic a child died, but did it ever occur to anyone that the child would be A LIVE TODAY if a illegal was not aloud to say here. I have lived with this subject for so many years. FACT...80% of ALL violent crime in the state of Arizona is done by illegals. New Mexico is in dire straights! Hospital after hospital has had to close because of the illegal problem , maybe when it effects "you and you family" you will understand. For all the people who think I'm wrong I say to GO repeat GO to Az,Co,Nm,Ca,Fl,& Ga and tell them they're problems are insignificant. I hope your loved doesn't fall prey to this crime and need a hospital that may or may not closed

BriarFox

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Jay_Z 8 years, 8 months ago

SarahSota, in case you didn't read the article, this guy is an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. That's why this IS an immigration issue. He shouldn't have been here in the first place. Wow.

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SarahSota 8 years, 8 months ago

My favorite thing in the world is when people say, "I'm not a racist but..." or "This is not racism but..." and then follow it up with a racist comment.

5 years? Probably not long enough of a sentence. I will agree with that. But, why did this turn into an immigration issue? Go downtown any night of the week and watch as hundreds of good ol' american college students pile into their cars and drive home drunk.

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wlf2527 8 years, 8 months ago

To change the subject: I work with Adan at Mcdonald's and of course you know when Illegal immigration are aloud to come here and take are jobs away from us. You would think Mcdonald's would check see if they had there green card. Now with all this going on he needs to be sentence longer pay the price for what he has done. You get the nice mexican family then u get the ones that don't care about us. So something does need to be done with this to stop this from happing again.

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consumer1 8 years, 8 months ago

Ijust use the "L" word to get people worked up. I really don't have a beef with them. Is it okay to say Beef in Lawrence? OR should I say soy substitute?

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consumer1 8 years, 8 months ago

Sorry princess, did I say something to upset you. P.S. I don't hate liberals, they serve a purpose. To save on gas, I try to plan my driving in my truck. reduce the amount of gas used criss crossing. Sorry I seem to get you riled Princess. I am sure you are a wonderful person.

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memoirs_of_a_sleepwalker 8 years, 8 months ago

Consumer 1, I'm not sure you can call macon 47 a "liberal" since he / she uses the word "beaner." Sounds like he / she is more up your alley . . .

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princess 8 years, 8 months ago

Why blame the victim when we can blame the liberals? All of those terrible "liberals" that consumer1 hates so much.

Same song different day consumer1.

So sad.

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larryville_79 8 years, 8 months ago

Ever watch these drunken idiots at the Ranch at closing time?It's a wonder that this doesn't happen every weekend.Some are looking to get run over,I swear. But the vengeance the father wants can be found in the middle east not here in America.We are civilized here,REMEMBER? Deportation is a temporary solution.Kinda like giving the homeless a cot for the night.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 8 months ago

Staff4:

What makes this NOT racism is that we are talking about ILLEGAL immigration. People coming to our country, not fully contributing as regular citizens, but still taking from our public services and the infrastructure that you and I are paying for. ILLEGAL immigration needs to be controlled because where you have one illegal act that is not being checked, you invite other illegal activity. The alarming, out-of-control drub problems that we have along the Mexican border are directly related to the illegal trafficing of people into our country.

You can't intelligently say that it's possible to protect society while at the same time ignoring illegal activity. Think about prohibition in the 1930's. Because alcohol is sold legally in the U.S., it is no longer run by organized crime gangs. When it was illegal, major cities were reeling from the effects of gang wars. But, today I can go buy a beer, know that it's not tainted, have some assurance that it wasn't bottled by slave labor, not have to buy it from a gangster or visit a brothel in order to buy it, and know that it will be taxed and that we will have funding for schools and roads because of that taxation. But, because ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is illegal, it will always bring problems into our country.

How does that relate to this article? Not very well. The truth is, many of us regular citizens have driven illegally without being illegal aliens. What killed this girl was irresponsible drinking. Keep in mind, she just left a bar at the wee hours. She would maybe be alive if she had been sober enough to look before crossing a major road in the middle of the night. Two drunks helped to kill her.

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one_more_bob 8 years, 8 months ago

"Hey guys, let's blame the victim!" No, let's not.

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MONIQ 8 years, 8 months ago

If there wasn't immigration NOBODY would be here...you should sit and think where did you come from....you rather how to your family get here.....??? She was try to cross a busy street...at 2 in the morning...with friends...if he was so drunk why is it he only hit her...when everybody else was trying to cross the street at the same...time....seem to stupidity and intoxication played a role on both parts.

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consumer1 8 years, 8 months ago

staff04, I understand, to me it is just too bad for everyone involved. However, especially the girl who was killed. Too often we as a society tend to be too concerned about the offender rightsand forget about the rights of the victim.

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

I'm just trying to put it in context. I made it clear that he is to blame, but someone else was committing a crime as well, and had she not been committing a crime, this would never had happened.

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consumer1 8 years, 8 months ago

Staff04, Being drunk, while a minimal offense, is not punishable by death in our culture.

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

Helloooo? She was drunk too. Last I heard, drunk in public was a crime too. I'm not saying he isn't at fault here because had he not been intoxicated this could have possibly been avoided, but drunk, jaywalking pedestrians that are injured while committing a crime shouldn't be drawing this much sympathy. I seem to remember when that girl was killed over by the Hawk several years ago, people were pointing just as many fingers at her as they were the kid who hit her.

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kidfresh 8 years, 8 months ago

just a quick comment in reflection of BriarFox's original post. If you think that we've afforded illegal immigrants and their children certain 'rights' and 'privilages' such as education, health care, and bilingual government simply because they bitched about it a bunch (or demanded), you are sorely mistaken. Every one of these policies have been proven to have positive social results. Drivers that actually have to take a test? great. Women who get pre-natal care before it's too late? great. Making a form easier to understand and less intimidating by translating it into our second most popular language? fantastic. What you don't seem to understand is, that while excessive illegal immigration isn't good for any country, we can't just turn the spigot off, or go back in time. We have to deal with the people who are here now, regardless of their background. They're driving on the streets, clogging up the hospitals, and building our houses. Deal with it. We can't just ignore them or think they are invisible. They live where we live and their actions affect us, just as much as we affect them. As such, there is absolutely NO excuse for drunken driving. Regardless of his status as a citizen, he derserves the book thrown at him.

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macon47 8 years, 8 months ago

consumer, you need to pull your head out of your posterior, and read the last sentace of my post.. please try to be more proactive than reactive in the future. r

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Fish2002 8 years, 8 months ago

The sentence ensures he won't be driving in our country for at least 5 1/2 years. If the U.S. deported him now the cold hard fact is that he would be back in the U.S., if he so desired, driving within 6 months.

Let's face it, most likely he is not a monster but rather a very, very poor decision maker. I know I have been known from time to time I do not always proceed in the wisest direction.

Bottom line, regardless of his race, best case scenario he truly is sorry and can learn from his mistake. He will have to live with the fact that he stole another human's life until he dies. This most like is a bigger burden than any court issued punishment.

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consumer1 8 years, 8 months ago

There you go. The bleeding heart liberal, Whine "It's not his fault" Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... By the way, not only was he driving drunk. Not just after a few drinks, he was way drunk. And, he didn't have a license, Or insurance. So did he make some bad choices??? Heck yes! And Macon47 this in spite of your pathetic whining about how he got robbed. So did the young woman who Did have a license, Did have insurance and was NOT DRIVING> WHat about her?????? You liberals make me sick.

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macon47 8 years, 8 months ago

We should all try to be kinder and gentler, putting this poor sick person in jail for the rest of his life will not bring the girl back to her parents. Alcohol is a drug, and should be banned from use.. This is an excellent example how a poor young person becomes addicted to it, and it ruins not only his life, but someone elses. Alcohol leads to drugs and the depravity only continues downward. Of course if this drunken beaner had killed my daughter, I would have his head on a stick posted at the us/mexican border. So guess it all depends on how you look at it, and How it affects you personally.

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The_Original_Bob 8 years, 8 months ago

Grimpeur - I definately agree about the not driving again part.

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grimpeur 8 years, 8 months ago

TOB, ya, it seems short, but I sincerely believe that some people can be rehabbed and can learn from their mistakes, especially when they have 5-1/2 years to think about it. Is it too short? I don't know. One thing that certainly should be learned, however, is how to live without driving a car ever again.

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offtotheright 8 years, 8 months ago

Good ol' boy from Winchester, Ks. Too funny! I was born in the hospital there!

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The_Original_Bob 8 years, 8 months ago

grimpeur - I've got to say that 5 1/2 years for killing someone seems like an awfully short time. Especially since he already had a DUI.

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grimpeur 8 years, 8 months ago

Repeat drunken driver. Doesn't matter whether he's a good ol' boy from Winchester, KS, native American, Mexican illegal, or Canadian. He's a repeat drunken driver.

Why is he driving?

Illegal immigration is a separate matter and has nothing to do with the real problem of drunk drivers, so let's not lose sight of the issue. The "messed up system" is the one that bends over backwards to make sure that even the worst drivers get to keep their licenses, that opens the loopholes that drunk, aggressive, or just plain stupid drivers walk through, and that frankly gives too many chances to drunks. If I lost a family member to a drunk that had numerous previous DUIs, speeding tickets, accidents, etc., I'd hold the courts, state legislators, and the driver responsible. Ask the average attorney in Lawrence how much of their time is spend on DUI/DWI. Why? Because the prevailing sentiment is, "Oh, we can't take someone's license away! Oh, we can't put this guy in jail! Oh, we can't impound someone's car!"

The hell we can't. We just won't. And why not? Same reason we're reluctant to crack down on other stupid driving habits: because there, for the grace of the gods, go I. We all drive, and I'm afraid more of us drive drunk (and speed and tailgate and fail to yield and fail to give full time and attention and trim nose hairs while dialing, logging on and trying to keep the espresso from spilling on the remote) than we care to admit. Gets back to the decline in judgment, civility, and courtesy on the road in general. No doubt, license revocation does nothing to keep anyone from driving. Jail and impoundment, however, will.

This sentence makes sure this guy will not drive in Lawrence again. The same should be done with other repeat drunk drivers, regardless of where they come from or where they live now.

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The_Original_Bob 8 years, 8 months ago

Right on BriarFox. I've spent a lot of time in Arizona and New Mexico and really parts of Colorado are feeling the effects of this. It is not racisim. If it were Canadiens (whites) doing the same thing up North, I'd feel the same way.

Craigers - Your point is true, but all these people have to do is register to work. Sure, it is some hoops to jump through, but don't you and I, as Americans, have to jump through a ton of hoops everyday?

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craigers 8 years, 8 months ago

I don't think the other immigrants are as rampant. However, the one thing I will say about the immigrants is that they will take the jobs that some Americans think they are too good for. Cleaning, janitorial, landscaping, and other tasks that need to be done, they do. That is why we have people who are unemployed. It is because of their pride and they think certain jobs are beneath them. And quite frankly I get along with those who do those tasks because they don't have as big of an ego trip as other people in the office. I don't agree though with them not knowing how to speak English at all. If you are here, speak English.

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staff04 8 years, 8 months ago

Don't BS yourself or anyone else. It is too racism. Continue to hide it under any guise, if that's what makes you feel good. If it weren't an illegal Latino immigrant but rather, an illegal Brit or Irish or French immigrant, which also are prevalent in this country, you would have nothing to say about it.

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trueninetiesgirl 8 years, 8 months ago

and to think he gets to stay in the us for 5 yrs will in a nice warm room with tv and all the free medical he needs oh wait its not free we are paying for this murder as well as all of them.

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craigers 8 years, 8 months ago

Right on Briarfox. I completely agree. And with the involuntary manslaughter? What is the deal with that? Here are my thoughts: He got drunk and then voluntarily got behind the wheel. We all know that drinking makes your driving less than perfect and he chose to. I would say voluntary manslaughter but I don't know if that exists. I think it would have to go to Murder. And they didn't deport him because it wasn't a felony. Wait a second, I thought they said he was an illegal immigrant. Isn't that enough to get him deported? Wow, this is a messed up system.

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consumer1 8 years, 8 months ago

Briarfox. I support what you are saying whole heartedly. In Lawrence we are crippled by politically correct attitudes. It will only be a moment before someone does respond saying, "it is not his fault", "the poor guy, he was only trying to feed his familiy". But, I support you 100%. Consumer1.

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BriarFox 8 years, 8 months ago

We're from Arizona, and if the people of Kansas would visit the Southwest then you would understand the attitudes towards illegal immigrants. There are states declaring "State of Emergencys" because of the massive amounts of illegal immigrants. This is NOT racisim issue however it is very much a preservation issue. Think about for a moment.

Try this: Try driving around in Mexico with no liability insurance and have an accident. Enter Mexico illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international law or any of that nonsense.

Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family. Demand bilingual nurses and doctors. Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc. Procreate abundantly. Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive behavior with, "It is a cultural United States thing. You would not understand, pal."

Keep your American identity strong. Fly Old Glory from your rooftop or proudly display it in your front window or on your car bumper. Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do likewise. Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system. Demand a local Mexican drivers license. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal, presence in Mexico. Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers.

Good luck, because it will never happen. It will not happen in Mexico or any other country in the world, except right here in the United States -- land of the apathetic.

Before ONE person throws they're hand up in outrage, go there and see for youself

BriarFox

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