Topeka — Two heavyweights in the fight against a school finance lawsuit urged the State Board of Education on Tuesday to lower its school accreditation standards.
Atty. Gen. Phill Kline and state Sen. John Vratil, R-Leawood, told the board that maintaining the current standard that all students will be grade-level proficient in reading and math by 2014 was unrealistic and could invite further court actions against the school system.
"We are setting ourselves up for failure," Vratil said.
But board member Bill Wagnon, a Democrat from Topeka, told Vratil he would give him a list of Kansas' 450,000 public school students.
"Which one do you want me to leave behind? You need to tell me," Wagnon said.
The discussion was steeped in the debate of Kansas' current school finance litigation and the federal No Child Left Behind law.
The Kansas Supreme Court earlier this year declared the school finance system unconstitutional because it was under-funded and inequitable. The federal law requires schools make progress toward 100 percent proficiency in math and reading or face sanctions.
The Legislature responded to the court order by increasing school funding by $290 million, or about 10 percent. The court has maintained jurisdiction in the case, ordering a study that could peg future school funding increases to achieving high standards for all students.
Kline said the court's signal to link funding to student performance was a departure that could control how the board and Legislature appropriate school funding.
But board member Sue Gamble, a Republican from Shawnee, said even though the standard may be impossible to reach, any backsliding could hurt students in the modern economy.
Many of the state standards have been put in place to mirror the federal No Child Left Behind law.
But Vratil predicted that law "will implode and go away" because of the unrealistic standards.
Board Chairman Steve Abrams, a Republican from Arkansas City, said he sympathized with the message from Vratil and Kline.
"One hundred percent proficiency is statistically impossible," he said. Although the board took no action, Abrams said it may discuss the issue further.
Earlier, Kathy Cook, executive director of Kansas Families United for Public Education, urged the board to disregard the testimony.
"Senator Vratil and Attorney General Kline seem to think it's too expensive to hold our schools accountable. Personally, I believe it's too expensive in the long run not to hold our schools accountable," she said.
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Densmore (anonymous) says…
I heard a quote on NPR's Car Talk the other day: "He suffers from delusions of adequacy." AG Phil Kline immediately came to mind.
Kansas still has a great many sensible and moderate Republicans. "Eisenhower Republicans" is what they were called in the past. These good people need to stand up and take back the Kansas GOP. Otherwise, we are stuck with, as Joker observed, "these knuckleheads." What kind of strategy is this? Go ahead and fail now because we are likely to fail in the future? Ridiculous.
usaschools (anonymous) says…
I agree totally with Densmore. The moderate Republicans need to step up to the plate and tell the radicals that they are out of step with the public (if not reality). This strategy of Kline's is obviously just an attempt to sheild the legislature from its constitutional obligation to adequately fund public schools. With lower standards, they can argue less funds are needed.
A more sensible option would be to make reasonable accomodations in the standards for the performance of children with severe learning problems/retardation etc. I am not suggesting that these children should be held to low standards. However, there are children for whom it is unreasonable to expect grade-level achievement. For example, a child who has brain damage, is non-symbolic and has little or no ability to communicate, reading at grade level is simply not going to happen.
I am not an expert on the provisions of the No-Child-Left-Behind act, but I do think that the KS goal and the date 2014 come right from that law. It would not surprise me if Kline has never read the law and does not realize that this is likely a federal mandate.
There is NO merit to Vratil and Kline's argument. The state has had standards that are rarely met because they are so high for decades, yet they have never been sued. In the state of KS, one must get permission from the state to sue the state! You can't just run out and file a lawsuit against the state because you want to (I'm not sure how many other states are like this, but I went to high school here in KS and we were taught that this is true in KS). So, it is not likely that the state has any suits to worry about.
Kline baffles me. What kind of Attorney General spends their time trying to find ways for the legislature to AVOID complying with the law and their constitutional obligations? It is absurd! He should be upholding the law, not trying to cirumvent it. He is an embarassment to the state.
jrlii (anonymous) says…
Face it: There are a small number of children who have no possibility of learning to read and do math. Period. Let alone functioning at their age group level.
Setting a standard for 100% of children to be competent at their age group level is a standard which will not be met, cannot be met and throwing all the money in the world at it still won't get you there.
Face it: There are children in this world who suffer disabilities such that learning to dress themselves is a significant accomplishment, never mind learning how to solve quadratic equations.
Certainly the developmentally disabled and brain damaged can and do achieve things far beyond what was the case in the bad old days when they were routinely institutionalized. However no amount of educational expenditure is going to get some kids up to their age level.
Ragingbear (anonymous) says…
Both Atty Gen. Kline and the senator need to be told in NO uncertain terms that this is NOT an acceptable method to resolve that idiotic "No child left behind" act. A petition should be started. And a few people need to be hired to randomly slap them in the back of the head for this one.
But, since kids don't generate income, or pay taxes, and the current government thinks that we need more burger flippers out there, they feel justified.
Densmore (anonymous) says…
jrlii:
What you say is true. No one is suggesting, however, that we throw "all of the money in the world," or a portion thereof, into trying to turn developmentally challenged children into physicists. Your post is a great example of why I am disappointed with our AG, as follows:
Your writing indicates that you are probably well educated and sensible. Yet, thanks to this red herring concocted by Kline and his pals, you have managed to confuse the issue, which is exactly what Kline wants you to do. From the article above: "The federal law requires schools make progress toward 100 percent proficiency in math and reading or face sanctions." The legislative intent was not to teach "...children in this world who suffer disabilities such that learning to dress themselves is a significant accomplishment...quadratic equations." The legislative intent was to move TOWARD 100% compliance. (By the way, I am not defending the "No Child Left Behind" Act.) So, Kline has managed to muddy the water with this humbug that we might "invite further court actions against the school system" if we are not 100% compliant. Accordingly, he has folks like you thinking that the matter should turn on whether we can achieve 100% compliance. His argument is mere sophistry and should be disregarded.
As USAschools points out, this is simply a back-door way of reducing funds for the state's children. If we lower the standards, Kline and his ilk will argue that we can lower school funding. Kline isn't just a knucklehead, he is a sinister knucklehead.
hottruckinmama (anonymous) says…
ragingbear...that would be a fun job...slapping polititians in the back of the head! where can i apply? i'm gonna have to ponder on this one awhile...normally i'm no big fan of spending more huge amounts of money on education but there seems to be something wrong or maybe kind of shady with the ag suggesting this.
gontek (anonymous) says…
Anyone read CNN online today? Same story, only it seems liek Kansas BOE has it backwards.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/education/08/...
gontek (anonymous) says…
no child left behind = you all get the same treatment no matter how hard you try or how good you do = marxist communism - sounds like the communist manifesto. Will they learn about free enterprise, competition, and representative republic & democracy in government? Oh, it doesn't matter. They won't be left behind either way, because we will lower the standards. Is there irony in that, or is it just me overthinking?
Say goodbye to the value of the dollar, NASA, the NASDAQ, and everything else that makes America powerful in the next 20 years - or learn to speak one of the following languages - chinese, japanese, dutch, german, spanish, or hindi. Oh yeah, russian too. Thats my plan for now - learning languages on tapes.
John1945 (anonymous) says…
Posted by Joker on August 10 at 5:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I will rule the universe!"
I knew this guy was Hitlerian.
I'm so glad you support these government school shills.
However, if you don't like paying taxes, I think you should start a crusade to stop paying them. Great idea, and we can start by not paying the ransom money the judicial tyrants demanded when they usurped the power of the legislature.