Advertisement

Archive for Tuesday, August 9, 2005

Underage sex law goes into effect

August 9, 2005

Advertisement

To comply with a new state law, Kansas abortion providers now must send the Kansas Bureau of Investigation identifying information and fetal tissue from all abortion patients younger than age 14.

"If you're younger than 14 and you're pregnant, there's only one way you got there - and that's statutory rape," said Sen. Kay O'Connor, R-Olathe, sponsor of the law when it was before the Kansas Senate.

O'Connor said she and others hope the new law will help law enforcement agencies catch men who prey on young girls.

But a counselor with Bert Nash Community Mental Health Center warned that tissue collecting and information sharing will likely cause some pregnant teens to delay talking to a counselor or seeking medical care.

"This is not going to curb sexual activity," said Tami Radohl, a Bert Nash counselor at Southwest Junior High. "But it will, I'm afraid, discourage pregnant teens from turning to adults for help."

Age of consent

The new law, known as the Child Rape Protection Act, requires any doctor who performs an abortion in Kansas on girls younger than age 14 to collect fetal tissue and send it, along with identifying information, to the KBI.

It also requires that a copy of the identifying information be sent to the abortion provider's local police or sheriff's department. The information also is to include the girl's parents' or legal guardians' names, addresses and telephone numbers.

Passed by the 2005 Legislature, the new law took effect July 11.

In Kansas, the age of consent is 16. The Child Rape Protection Act only focuses on girls younger than 14 because of the state's so-called Romeo and Juliet law, which exempts consensual sex when participants are between 14 and 19.

According to Kansas Department of Health and Environment statistics, 11,427 abortions were performed in the state last year. Of these, 30 involved girls under 14.

Eleven of the 30 girls were from Kansas; 19 were from out of state.

Compliance

"We are complying with the law," said Peter Brownlie, CEO of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri.

"They're very uncommon. In the first six months of this year, we had five," Brownlie said, referring to the abortions performed at the Planned Parenthood clinics in Kansas.

Last month, Atty. Gen. Phill Kline's office drafted four pages of rules and regulations that spelled a plan for enforcing the new law. The draft will be discussed during an Aug. 22-23 meeting of the Joint Committee on Rules and Regulations. A hearing for soliciting input form the public is set for Oct. 5.

Brownlie said Planned Parenthood would not protest collecting tissue for and sharing information with the KBI.

'Intimidation'

Radohl said she was aware there have been 19- and 20-year-old men in Lawrence who use alcohol and drugs to coax 13- and 14-year-old girls into having sex, but most young pregnancies involve sexual partners closer in age to one another.

"What I see the most by far are teens having sex with other teens," Radohl said.

Julie Burkhart, head of the Wichita-based ProKanDo abortion rights lobby, accused the new law's supporters of governing by intimidation.

"This isn't about protecting children," Burkhart said. "It's about shaming patients at a time in their young lives when they need support. If it was about protecting children, then why does the law only apply to abortions? Why doesn't it require hospitals to collect tissue for girls under 14 who give birth?"

KDHE records show that in 2003 - the latest data available - 40 girls between ages 10 and 14 gave birth. Included in those 40 births were two in Douglas County, two in Johnson County, 10 in Sedgwick County and 11 in Wyandotte County.

O'Connor said the bill did not include hospitals because there's little evidence that hospitals have covered up underage pregnancies.

The same, she said, cannot be said about the state's abortion providers.

O'Connor cited tape-recorded telephone calls in which clinic workers are heard telling callers posing as abortion-seeking 13-year-old girls how to keep their 22-year-old boyfriends out of trouble.

Burkhart and Brownlie have denied the tapes' authenticity.

O'Connor confirmed that the tapes were provided by Life Dynamics, an anti-abortion group based in Texas.

"What we're trying to do is stop these rapes," O'Connor said.

Modifications sought

Spokesmen for associations representing the state's doctors and hospitals said they did not plan to testify against the proposed rules and regulations.

"We're not going to get involved in that," said Jerry Slaughter, executive director of the Kansas Medical Society. "It's our assumption that those who provide the service are prepared to do that."

Brownlie said he would ask the committee to modify portions of the rules and regulations.

"Some of what's in there is unenforceable, like it says tissue samples have to be at least 5 square centimeters in size," he said. "Well, for medical abortions there may not be that much."

Medical abortions are those induced by drugs rather than surgical procedures.

Comments

Agnostick 7 years, 7 months ago

"...If it was about protecting children, then why does the law only apply to abortions? Why doesn't it require hospitals to collect tissue for girls under 14 who give birth?"


Bingo!

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com

0

Linda Endicott 7 years, 7 months ago

Hottruckinmama, don't let the idiots here bother you.

My grandpa was 20, and my grandma 16, when they got married, in 1917. They raised 8 children together, and stayed married for 45 years, until the day she died.

Things were done differently back then. Kids were also made of sterner stuff. By the time a girl was 16, she already knew how to cook and clean house and did so on a regular basis for the family. She already had child-rearing skills, because the older kids always helped care for the younger ones. They already knew what hard work was, and how to keep going even when life threw hurdles in your way.

But I agree with you. This new law has nothing to do with rape, or stopping it. It has everything to do with attempting to stop abortion, which, like it or not, is legal now. Otherwise, they'd be just as concerned over the births by 14-year-old girls as they are over the abortions.

0

Linda Endicott 7 years, 7 months ago

Dad, I think you should call the authorities IMMEDIATELY. And if she's done all this on the computer, then she's left all kinds of proof behind that she's probably not even aware of. Even if she's tried deleting stuff, it's still there on the computer somewhere, and an expert can extract it. Run, don't walk, to the phone. If you delay, you run the risk of SRS saying you aren't protecting your child, and having him taken away from you. If the neighbors complain about her behavior before you do, you could be in trouble, too, for not stopping it.

0

Dad 7 years, 7 months ago

I don't know if this really applies to this storey or not, but I have some serious concerns regarding my wife and a 16 yr old. This is very disturbing to me. It is ending our marriage and causing our family to fall apart. I will tell you what is going on and you just let me know what steps I should take to stop this disgusting behaviour of hers (legally). Here goes: My wife started playing an on-line game with our son who is just under 10 yrs old. Since school has started, he hasnt played much if at all. My wife on the other hand, plays from the time she wakes up in the morning, until the sun is coming up the next day. This is nearly every night of the week, without fail. She has met a 16 yr old boy that is living out of state, that she calls and gets calls from at all hours of the day and night. They have talked for hours on end, day after day, night after night. I have seen e-mails of their correspondance, and to be honest with you, they made me physically ill to read. I have confronted this kid on the phone and told him to stay away from my wife and to stop calling her. But neither of them care and continue to exhibit this foul behaviour. My wife even said yesterday that she will NEVER stop doing what she is doing with him. She admits to me that what she is doing is wrong, but still does it. She has now become very distant from our son as well and emotionally abandoned us. My son told me tonight that "mom doesnt want to do anything with me anymore. I ask her to come and play some games with me, and she says that she'll be up in a minute or she never answers me back. She never comes up anymore. She never reads to me before betime like she used to, either. She's always playing that game and talking to (*. The 16 year old.)" I broke down into tears when I heard my son say that to me. It was breaking my already broken heart. One more thing.....when I confronted her again the other night about this boy, she went into a rage and chased after me up the stairs with a knife. I tried to close the door, but she kept pushing it open. She said (according to my son. I couldnt hardly remember what she said to me until he reminded me tonight) : "You wanna die!?! Let me end it for you right now!!!". NO child should EVER have to see OR hear that. EVER!!!! Please.....I don't know what to do. I am very concerned about our safety, but I'm afraid if I go to the authorities, and they say it's too late to file a complaint or that the only witness is a 9 year old boy, or they dont take it seriously.....I really fear what she'll do. I can't leave here and leave our son with someone who is so unbalanced. She already has a history of mental illness. I am looking for some help and guidance and someone who can tell me what I should do. I thank you in advance. Peace!

0

bzybody 8 years, 1 month ago

You can't compare adults fornicating with children in our times with marriages that occured in the past. I think that judging by the time period that Hottrucking mamma's grandparents got married they are more likely to have both been virgins. People in the olden days had more respect for themselves and were brought up to wait until marriage. Grandpa married Grandma not to use her for his selfish pleasures but to love and cherish her forever. Adult men with underage girls today have no honorable intentions. To them a girl is just a toy to be used up and thrown away. If any older man were truely in love with an underage girl he would not sneak around and have sex with his beloved. He would wait for her to be mature enough to be his wife. Although I would question the mental health and maturity of any man falling in love with little girls.

0

Godot 8 years, 1 month ago

This became law in July 2005. This is old news. Why does the headline say "Underage sex law goes into effect?" It should read, "The forums have been really dull lately so we're going to liven things up by bringing up the child rape law....again."

0

Aarika_mai 8 years, 1 month ago

I heard that if you are under the age of 18 and you get pregnant, the cops or law enforcement(whatever you want to say) have to investigate the parents of the female. Is that true?

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

oh and btw. i bet your one of those damn republicans to boot!

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

oh well damn i thought i was doing pretty good with my spelling and so on considering my faulty genes and all (according to you anyway)

0

kansas 8 years, 8 months ago

Listen to me dear, it can be extremely difficult for people to take anything you say seriously when you demonstrate an inability to type a sentence (or sentences) properly.

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

i know i'm worried. what are you some kind of a school teacher or something?

0

kansas 8 years, 8 months ago

Well, it sure as hell looks like you need help with your punctuation/sentence structure!

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

i drive a truck buddy over the road believe me i don't need no help dealing with the likes of you.

0

kansas 8 years, 8 months ago

First of all, I'm not Joe.........but I agreed with what he said.

Also........You're saying you want me to mix it up with you and many others on the other board.......which translates into......."I, hottruckinfool, can't handle dealing with someone else on my own, I need help. I don't have the backbone or brains to defend myself so I need others to assist me."

You're as sad as that now-dead grandfather of yours was when he was alive and schtoinking teenage girls!

Hmmmm...........must be something in your family genes, I guess.

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

kansas/joe actually i weight about 103 but whatever. i've got thick skin. just curious though how come you never show your true colors in on the street? man you'd get yourself a new a**hole tore in a hurry! oh well guess your afraid to tangle with to many people so you just kind of have to stick to the sidelines.

0

kansas 8 years, 8 months ago

Oh, shut up, you fat slob.

Granddaughter of a sex pervert!

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

tee hee. joe kicked the bucket from all that diggin' yesterday and came back as kansas.

0

kansas 8 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

0

Monkman 8 years, 8 months ago

Okay guys, let's try to stay focused. Although it's apparently extremely important, the age of married folks (both in the '20s and today) is not the issue. The issue in the article is about the law requiring abortion performers to collect tissue samples and send them in, since a pregnant girl of 14 or younger is statutory rape. Way earlier, before Mister_Joe suddenly became both an expert on hottruckinmama's family history and a psychic medium capable of seeing just who is in hell and what they're up to, lacoov posed an interesting question. If the 14 year old girl does not abort, what then? The law says whoever fathered the child (regardless of age) is still guilty of statutory rape, yet does not require anything to be sent in to the authorities. Seems to me that's a free ticket for some young, irresponsible males to get off the hook. The law will not stop teenagers from engaging in sexual activity (as mentioned in the article), but I think trying to enforce the 14 and younger law is a good idea, incomplete though it may be. I think that if people who perform abortions are required to collect samples and send them to the authorities, then the same should be true for the cases in which the child is born. Otherwise, it seems to create a double standard, in which case I side with happyone. Can't have double standards.

0

happyone 8 years, 8 months ago

This is a very "hot" issue.

It is true that the "standards" were different back in the '20's but it still DOES NOT make it right! a girl between the ages of 13-17 is just that a GIRL- a child by ANY standards and to say that "its OK because everyone else is doing it" is just wrong!

The age difference is not the issue here. The issue is that the girls are still children!! Regardless of what could be considered "normal" a man marrying/having sex with a teenage girl is SICK!!

Many of you have resorted to childish behavior so let me ask you-- If it were your daughter would it be OK?

Some how I think that is going to be a resounding NO. If thats the case now it was then too. In other words Momma and the rest, If you are saying it was OK for Grandma & Grandpa then you are also saying its OK for your daughters. Think about it....you can't have a double standard!!

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

momma, your grandpa is where he should be..........in hell, and getting buttfuucked by Satan (hopefully).

And tell_it....."snot-nosed, pimple-faced bigot"??

Oooooooooooh, my! You really got me good with that one, didn't you?!

Well......

"I'm rubber, you're glue, anything you say bouces off of me and sticks to you!"......You dickhead!

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

okay. well i think mister joe is going to get a shovel and exhume my poor old dead grandpa (who by the way raised and supported his family and never asked for a hand out from anyone) and either beat the hell out of him or have him tryed for a crime or something. anyway while he's busy doing that i have work to do. everyone have a good day! and joe be careful with all that digging..its awful hot outside and your mighty worked up..you might just have a heat stroke.

0

offtotheright 8 years, 8 months ago

Where are the Parents of these young girls that are getting pregnant? Seems to me that 'parenting' has gone out the window these days!

0

tell_it_like_it_is 8 years, 8 months ago

Damn Mister Joe you've shown yourself to be a fine man. Insulting people's family's and name calling. Your judging some thing that happened in the 20's by 05 standards and it doesn't work. I bet your some snot nosed pimple faced kid myself. Only a kid could be that ignorant. Its funny how people who pretend to be so open minded thinks its okay to start hurling insults and calling names when they come across someone who's background or family history is a little different from there's. Thats a classic bigot. Thats what you are sir..a snot nosed pimple faced bigot.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Oh, and one more thing..........

If "happyone" agrees with me, then I know I'm right! So the rest of you sapheads can go jump in a lake!

Show them the way to the lake, HKP!!

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, okay you clowns (HKP, redneck person, etc.).....let me as you people something........if lots of 30 year old men were marrying young 16 year old girls way back when......then who were the women in their twenties marrying?? Even older men??!! Oh, yeah, right! The older man/young girl thing was the exception, not the norm!! Get that through your thick skulls, HKP and momma and all of you other numbskulls out there!

Bottom line: momma's grandpa was a grown man poking a young girl!

What a pervert.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Oh HKP, shut up, you ass! Your daily posts read like that of a true imbecile! Your latest post is a fine example.

0

redjayj 8 years, 8 months ago

Give mamma a break. Back in the old days older men married young women 16 or 17 mainly because young men could not afford families. !3 is way too young for sex. I wonder where all of those girls parents were when they were messing around with older men. If people kept their kids in line or even cared enough about them to know what they were doing most of these problems would be solved.

0

Hong_Kong_Phooey 8 years, 8 months ago

Mister_Joe has got a lot of hostility...and coming from me, that's sayin' a lot.

Hey, Joe, you're badgering "myname" about having an "I'm an American History major" attitude, but where did you get yours from. You seem to think that you are so knowledgeable about the ways of the past. Where did you get your knowledge? You know, I think that "momma" may be on to something here. Your posts read like someone that has some deep problems (or is it desires??) with older men and younger girls. Were you rejected by one? And since when did "momma's" grandmother become abused by her father?! Man, stop making stuff up.

Take a deep breath and get a hug. Everything will be okay. Really.

0

offtotheright 8 years, 8 months ago

WTF? David Ryan must have had a vacation day today.

Anyhooo..pretty entertaining!

0

happyone 8 years, 8 months ago

Mr Joe is right it is SICK!!

Age difference is ok when both are ADULTS but not when one is still a child!!

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Uh-huh, Myname.

And you are some kind of "marriage historian"? Yeah, right.

Listen, your post is a crock of shiite. Many young males (late teens, early twenties) married in this country way back when. What are you talking about, you fool?! Older men tended to marry young women if the younger woman was a widow or if the older man was a widower. In either case, a marriage was consumated to make life easier for her (financially) or him (so he could have a women--preferably without kids of her own--to watch and help raise his many kids).

Your post gives other posters here a false impression of how things in ths country really were back in the 1700's and 1800's and early 1900's.

Hot momma's grandpa was a 29 year old never-married man way back in 1921. --A very unusual thing, indeed! He was probably either a.) a closet homosexual, or b.) a complete loser around women his own age. Either way, out of desperation, I'm sure, he settled on a 16 year old girl who was probably desperate to marry any man with a pulse to save her from her abusive/overbearing father!

Now, "Myname".....you've been corrected. Knock it off with your "I'm an American History major" attitude. It sounds like you've got a lot to learn! Go read a book or something, you clueless moron!

0

MyName 8 years, 8 months ago

This must be the most ignorant "conversation" on this topic I have ever heard. People did marry younger back in the "good ole days" and it wasn't always young people marrying each other. More often than not, it was men in their late 20s early 30s marrying women in their late teens and early 20s. This was mostly about economics: a younger man (17 or 18) usually didn't have the earning power to keep a wife. And since women weren't allowed to work or own property to support themselves, men usually had to work a long time until they had the means to support a wife and a family. For economic reasons (as well as other reasons), it was also better for these men to marry younger women. In fact, in the "good ole days" if you were approaching 30 and single you were considered an "old maid". As the country has become richer, and women have been allowed more rights, things have changed, mostly for the better. But that doesn't make Master_Joe any less of an ass.

0

Joker 8 years, 8 months ago

hey john1945..... oh wait its after 8pm....way past your oldasst bedtime get up and come out!! you are a dying breed!! your church will fail and be no more!!! AHAHHAH

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

well mister joe i guess all in all then your family must be perfect and mine a lot less so. although i don't think anyone in my family would be so ill bred as to insult people the way you feel free to do. you sir are an ass.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, I should chill out! You're right!

And you, redneckgal, should go take care of your old man! He needs you to give him his nightly sponge bath--and then don't forget! You need help him remove his dentures, take out his hearing aids, and then tuck him into bed! He is in his 80's, after all! And what are you 50?

So let's see...........when you two got married 35 years ago.............you were about 15? 16? And he was what? In his late 40's, or somewhere around there?

0

Redneckgal 8 years, 8 months ago

Geez Joe I think you better chill out dude your gonna blow a gasket over stuff that happen 70 years ago. Then it would be you that looked like a idiot.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

And momma, I still think that your "grandpa horndog" must have been a real loser when it came to courting WOMEN!! How else does one explain why he wound up marrying such a young girl??!!

No WOMAN with half-a-brain wanted him! Hmmm...........I wonder why?

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

"I still think that's sad."

Also, like someone said earlier....yes, its true, people did marry young 100 years ago.

But that was young people marrying young people!!!!! Not dirty old men marrying young girls!!! That kind of thing obviously did happen here and there way back when...........and it was sick then, and it is sick now, 100 years later!!!

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, that's right, momma! 30 year old men boinking 16 year old girls........I have a problem with that, alright!!

I still that's sad.

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

i think maybe joe boy is the one who really has issues with teenage girls. he sure came up with some great ideas that my grandpa supposedly did with my grandma..maybe some of those are fantasies of his? sure seems to be a touchy subject for him.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Good point, Capt. P!!

You've been dismissed, Redneck idiot!

0

larryville_79 8 years, 8 months ago

Cap_Poindxtr Good point but,what about the child who is pregnant.Does NOT disclosing the father's identity make her a criminal?She may feel criminalized.

Human fetal tissue?yucky.If we are going to allow this why not just legalize cloning as well

0

offtotheright 8 years, 8 months ago

Back in those years people fed themselves, clothed themselves, paid their doctor, etc....it didn't matter their ages. Now, if a teen gets pregnant, we all pay for their birthing expense, supply them with food stamps, that good old medical card, and the list goes on and on. Maybe if there was no such assistance, there wouldnt be so many young girls (and boys) getting pregnant.

Everyone fend for themselves!

0

captain_poindexter 8 years, 8 months ago

Redneckgal. how are your grandparents ages relevant to this conversation? Especially when they were both old enough to consent to sex?

0

Redneckgal 8 years, 8 months ago

God Good. My grandparents got married at 23 and 17. Things were done that way back then more. They made a good life together and we still reap the benefits of the section of land they managed to aquire with a lifetime of hard work. Mister Joe (hoofy?) you need to take a chill pill and quit mouthing off about stuff you don't understand or comprehend.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Cheesehead.....and he had a lust for young, sweet poontang too! Then he impregnated her many times over and wound up being stuck with her for life! People didn't get divorced back then because it was a terrible sin to do that sort of thing back in them days, ya know!

0

its_obvious 8 years, 8 months ago

So who thinks this new law will make underage girls stop having sex, and who thinks it will make the pregnant ones try to "lose" the baby using their own limited knowlege and that of some of their peers?

0

captain_poindexter 8 years, 8 months ago

larryville_79. obviously we can't stop people from murdering others. does that mean there shouldn't be laws regarding murder?

0

larryville_79 8 years, 8 months ago

How does Sen. O'Connor feel about 13 year olds having access to birth control?Does her religion forbid that?What can we do to satisfy faith based Goverment and still be realistic at the same time? There are some laws(god given) that we as finite humans can't conrol.You can't stop dogs from peeing on trees,you can't stop a tornado from tearing up your trailer,and you can't stop teenagers from doing the nasty.

0

Christine Anderson 8 years, 8 months ago

Dear "Momma": I'm so sorry for the nasty things some of these people have been saying about your grandparents. I am going to, without fail, commend any couple who makes it 55 years! I have a barely 17 yr.old daughter myself, and like you, I would not want her to marry at her age. You are right when you say that people had to mature at an earlier age back then. Shoot, I'm now an old woman of 41, and even when I was 16, I was still a spoiled brat. It clearly takes more than sexual attraction or a man "thinking with his little head" to make a marriage last 55 years. It must have been something known as genuine love.

0

doomcity 8 years, 8 months ago

who gives a crap how old people are, if they wanna screw let them for christ sakes. your all human beings, the scum of the earth.

0

Hong_Kong_Phooey 8 years, 8 months ago

First, I'd be genuinely curious to know how many of those 11,000+ abortions were women having more than one in a year.

Second, do any of you history buffs know what the average age of marriage was back in the 1860's & 1870's? As far as I know, men & women WERE getting married at 14 or 15 back then - and having children, and earning their own livings. Of course, I'm talking about people of the same age range - not 20-somethings and pre-teens. (Like Mr.Joe said, "ewww gross")

0

smitty 8 years, 8 months ago

Women were chattel in 1921. Hell, women didn't even get the right to vote until 1920, 19th Amendment to the US Constitution: Women's Right to Vote.

The current law on child rape is biased, poorly written. I agree with the comments questioning why no rape law on live births.

0

lacoov 8 years, 8 months ago

I'm not saying I support abortion either I'm just commenting on the double standard of the new law. If a older male has sex with an underage female and she has the child it's still rape and he should be held accountable.

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

because oldenuf...i'm talkiing about something that happened back in the 1920's for pete sakes. number one i wouldn't want my girl to do that today because there is a lot more for a girl today then there was in 1920 something. number 2 and this is gonna sound bad but kids today just don't have the wherewithall anymore to withstand much of anything even in the best of circumstances. if they marry at 25 and stay that way for 5 years its considered a miracle. you can say what you want about my grandparents but i know that their are about 150 folks yearly at out reunion that awfully glad they got together.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

And Momma, I'll say this...........

Perhaps your grandma was a 16 year old hottie when your grandpa first met her. It's certainly possible for an older man to get a "stirring in his loins" whenever he sees a incredibly beautiful, much younger, and very shapely female! Just ask Bill Clinton!Anyway, that sort of thing has been going on since the beginning of time! Heck, I admit that I get a serious "stirring in my loins" whenever I'm out and about and I see a 16 or 17 year old high school girl (with very nice curves) wearing a tight tank top and short shorts!! Oh boy, do I get a "stirring"!!---And I'm older than 29!!!!---But, although some of these young women......ahem!......."excite me" in certain ways......I would never marry any of them.....simply because they're teenage girls!! They're too young for a man like me!

I think your grandpa was thinking with his you-know-what when he first laid his eyes upon your grandma way back when! He his big head was obviously weaker than his "little head" and he let his little head talk him into mounting (and then marrying) a girl that was waaaaaay younger than him!!

0

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 8 months ago

Momma:

I apologize for assuming they were knocked-up.

But, you just undid your own arguement. You think it was OK, yet you don't want your daughter to do the same? Why not?! If there is NOTHING WRONG with it, then why not give your blessing to your daughter to follow their lead? Saying "it was different then" doesn't really make sense. People are people. Just because they didn't have TV doesn't mean that they were really that different from us.

You sound like my old girlfiend's parents. They were sure they weren't racist, but they we just as sure that they didn't want her dating me (I'm of mixed race). You say that it was OK for them, but not for your daughter. I think you should re-think your position.

0

harrierist 8 years, 8 months ago

I would say most sex between teenage boys and girls is experiementation between these genders and will still occur for teens under 18. In Ancient times, young people bean having sex as soon as they biologically were motivated. From their societies developed marriage rites or contracts between families. Hell, you only lived to age 45 anyway. Today puberty still averages 12 to 14, but the age of death has increased. Today our society has become so complex in first world nations, most fifteen year olds haven't gathered the life experience to simply survive on their own in today's USA culture. Yet in many 3rd world countries in say, Arab Islamic North Africa, people live in cultures where a 15 year old male is a "Man" and can fend for him self- hold a paying job and survive. They then could support a family. In US mainstream cultures we don't educate our youth to take on life - marry, raise a family (where sex becomes economically justified as well as satifying the pleasurable needs - that start blooming forth at age 13), til they are 18. Yes there are sick parents, male as well as female (as we have seen in the recent two cases of teachers having sex with under age male students), adults that have sex with children. These cases over all are small I think. I do think that most parents are afraid to talk about sex, because they too, are frankly embarraced to talk about anything intimate. In my grandparents and parents day, we had strong dominate fathers. The fathers would come right out and tell the boys if they mess around, by god their punish ment will be hell. So don't even go their, just take them to a movie or a picnic, open doors for them, put them on a pedestal, maybe kiss them, but if you go any farther than that "and I hear about it, then I'll whipp the tar out of you!" Fathers today don't have the guts to lay down the law. Many Fathers of those days would threaten their boys by saying "Ok, you want to be a man, sex is part of being a real man, treating your wife with respect goes hand in hand with that, therefore you get your girl pregnant - then your going to get a job work your life off to support your family." Most 15 yearold boys heard this and then the idea of sex still interested them but also scared the them to death to engage in it. As we moved into the 50's, our culture produced more and more weak fathers and the back alley abortion racket began to sky rocket.

0

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 8 months ago

I think lacoov has made a very good comment about those who choose NOT to abort. What are we doing to identify the men who impregnate girls who do not choose to kill the child? What's with that?!

I think abortion is murder, but at the same time I'd hate to see our lawmakers falsely use rape statutes in order to reduce abortion rates. Don't get me wrong: I want to see all abortion end; but I also want to know that when we say that we are working to protect our young girls from rape, that we are not being disingenuous in our approach. Saying that we are doing this in the name of all that is right is a lie if our true motives are false.

Being deceitful in the application of righteousness is not righteous.

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

whoa whoa back up a minute there folks my grandparents weren't "in trouble" when they got married . there first child (my uncle harold) wasn't born until after they'd been married a little over a year. i don't know that they had to "pick-up" any pieces. i think they were probably to busy trying to suvive the depression and raise a family. i think maybe this is the difference in big city folks and small town farm people. this wasn't to unusual back in the old days at least in small towns. am i proud of them? you damn right i am. would i want my girl to do something like that? hell no.

0

John1945 8 years, 8 months ago

Posted by bettie on August 9 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"oh, and john1945? feminists are the ones working against sexual objectification and victimization - always have been. you must have them confused with someone else."

The contradictions of the feminist movement are legion.

While feminists prattle about sexual objectification, the "liberated" mentality they promote has increased the sexual objectification of women dramatically. Indeed, it allows far more demeaning and irresponsible conduct on the part of males than was ever present in the bad old "sexist" days.

Of course we could also move on over to the great benefits the feminist movement has had in enslaving the modern "family" to corporate culture and their impact on lowering wages.

However, the women's movement has demonstrated one myth, that of the compassionate woman. With the advent of feminism we now have over 40,000,000 women who have shown that they're willing to kill their own babies.

There is nothing more demeaning to women than the feminist movement.

0

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 8 months ago

Momma:

I understand that your perspective is that since your grampa was able to turn the situation into a positive one, then it was OK. But, don't you think that the situation you describe is not typical? Just because they were able to pick up the pieces and make it work doesn't mean that it was a pattern for us to follow. Your grandparents were LUCKY. They mitigated the effects of his mistakes very well, but that doesn't mean that he did the right thing when he raped your grandmother. It would be very stupid for us to all say "Well, it worked for those two people, so I guess we should just all start dating children." My wife's grandfather was an alcoholic when he married her grandmother. They worked it out, he quit drinking, and they were married for 55 years before he died. Does that mean I should encourage my daughter to marry a boozer, just because some people have been done so and survived it?

You seem proud of your grandparents, and I think you should feel that way. They survived something most could not survive. But, let's be honest: if he hadn't married her, someone would have shot his sorry butt. You can believe that it was all rosy if it helps you sleep at night, but when your granny announced that she was with child, no-one was really happy about that. Let's not paint so nice a picture just because it turned out in the end.

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

mister joe..i'll give you this..you seem to be the most enlightened male (if your not male i apologize) i've ever seen. you could be a poster child for women's lib.

0

Jamesaust 8 years, 8 months ago

As we all learned via our last constitutional amendment, allowing marriage is the same thing as societal approval, so the question is how is it that the good citizens of Kansas approve of 22 year old (or 88 year olds for that matter) men marrying 13 year old girls - perfectly legal in our family-focused state - but considers a pregnant 13 year old the product of statutory rape. No doubt Sen. O'Connor's statute will need to have a marital exception. I suspect that we are about to see the phenomena of the boyfriends of pregnant 13 year olds "popping the question" (no doubt followed by a quickie, Britney Spears divorce).

How about them Kansas values???

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Whatever!

I just don't see how a 16 year old girl has the mental and emotional maturity of a 29 year old man! Unless, of course, that 29 year old man has the mental and emotional level of a 16 year old boy! (Which, if that was the case, would be kind of sad in my book.) And that could very well have been the case with your grandpa!

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

yes mister joe everybody knows how us modern inlightened folks have done SO much better with marriage and raising children then the folks did years ago.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Right on, consumer1!!!

Momma, thank God it's 2005 and not 1921, and the days of "marriages of convenience" are over!! (At least in this country, anyway!)

Your grandpa was looking for a baby-making/ cooking and cleaning girl/woman to make his life complete. Your grandma was probably looking to get out from under her father's roof!! Her father was probably a tyrant! So she eagerly accepted some much older man's hand in marriage.

Heck! I bet her father (your great-grandpa) was happy to see his daughter marry some guy almost twice her age just so he would no longer have to be financially responsible for her!! As a matter of fact, your great-granpa probably bribed the guy to marry her!!

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

you can make something dirty out of it if you want to but it must have worked for my grandparents. as i said they were married well over 50 years and they were the apple of each others eye till the day my grandpa passed away in 1981. they raised all their children well. not one of them turned out bad. and i never heard a harsh word pass between them not once. you don't find marriages like that anymore

0

consumer1 8 years, 8 months ago

Get real!!! my daughter is 17, if some guy 29 rolls around my house he had better do when I am not looking. I guarentee a sever a** whoopin on that sucker or worse.

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

mister joe get over your selfrightous bs. my grandparents got married in about 1921. lots of folks did stuff like that back then.

0

bettie 8 years, 8 months ago

oh, and john1945? feminists are the ones working against sexual objectification and victimization - always have been. you must have them confused with someone else.

0

bettie 8 years, 8 months ago

excuse me, hottruckinmama, but there's a big difference between a 13-year-old and a 16-year-old, the least of which being that a 16-year-old can legally consent to sex in kansas. (your grandpa, therefore, would have been just fine.) we're talking about a seventh-grader versus a sophomore in high school, here. do you know any seventh-graders? do you think they're ready to make this kind of decision? don't get me wrong, i'm not naive enough to think that they aren't making this kind of decision all of the time, but adults shouldn't be taking advantage of adolescents at this vulnerable time when they are trying to piece together an identity and find acceptance in the world.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Correction: I bet she had more brains than he did!

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

Hey, Momma!

First of all, I said a 13 year old girl and a 22 year old male...........13 years old, mind you! 13 is a child. That's sick! Okay?

Secondly, you mean to tell me that your grandpa, when he was a 29 year old man, couldn't do no better than a girl that was slightly more than half his age??

Geez! You're grandpa must have been a real loser. I mean how else could you explain why a 29 year old man ends up with a 16 year old girl??!!!!

I better she had more brains then he did!!

0

hottruckinmama 8 years, 8 months ago

oh geez just get over yourselfs my grandma was 16 and my grandpa was 29 when they got married. they was married for over 55 years and had and raised 8 kids. now days they would have just throwed my grandpa in jail. i think we're all just a little up tight about this stuff myself.

0

lacoov 8 years, 8 months ago

So, it's only rape if an older man has sex with a young girl and she has an abortion but not if she has the child?Very interesting......

0

doomcity 8 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

0

Mister_Joe 8 years, 8 months ago

13 year old girls.......with 22 year old boyfriends??!!

Eeeeeeeewwwwwwww!!!!!!!!

That's just plain sick!

0

consumer1 8 years, 8 months ago

It is amazing that almost half these young girls are from Kansas. This should be a wake up calls for all of the parents out there who are still teaching the "Boys will be boys" crap, to reconsider the implications of their "good ol' boy" Ideaoloy. Our society continues to promote lack of responsibility in boys. I especially hold Lawrence Parents liable. We claim to be this forward thinking, (liberal espousing city) but when it comes to our kids, "Boys" we don't teach them about responsible sex. and believe me there is NOTHING responsible about having sex with a child/female under the age of 14. All parents need to wake up!! Liberal and conservative and promote good values in our children. Now let's hear someone lambast me for promoting values...

0

offtotheright 8 years, 8 months ago

11,427 abortions? That is outrageous!

0

Baille 8 years, 8 months ago

As it will the people who actually work with at-risk children, which you clearly do not.

0

John1945 8 years, 8 months ago

My, my, won't all the pedophiles and their baby-killing feminist allies be upset with this turn of events.

0

Commenting has been disabled for this item.