Overland Park ? Democrat Kathleen Sebelius and Republican Tim Shallenburger on Wednesday fought about school funding in a gubernatorial debate before members of Johnson County chambers of commerce.

Answering questions before about 275 people at the Marriott Hotel, the two candidates provided no new information about how they would solve the ballooning state revenue gap.

Leaders recently said next year’s budget would feature a record $800 million gap between spending needs and revenue. The current budget is $4.4 billion.

But Sebelius and Shallenburger have maintained they can avoid new taxes by cutting waste and inefficiencies.

Wednesday, with less than five weeks left before the Nov. 5 election, they stood pat.

Shallenburger said he would consolidate state agencies, go after “$178 million” in welfare fraud and cancel $11 million for refurbishing a state office building.

“We have to stop raising taxes,” he said.

Sebelius said, if elected, she would start the next day to assemble teams of experts inside and outside the government to conduct performance audits of every function of state government, such as has been done in other states.

“I think we can do more with less,” she said.

The two candidates quickly tangled about school funding, attacking each other’s stance on the issue from the days when each served in the Kansas House.

“Eight years in a row in the Legislature, I voted over and over and over again to enhance school funding, and Tim voted ‘no’ over and over and over again,” Sebelius said.

But Shallenburger said Sebelius was relying on “brochure” material.

He said in the Legislature, key leaders meet with the governor, make a deal on how much to increase school funding, and then some legislators run with bills to increase it above that amount, knowing those proposals won’t pass. They then use those votes for campaign material.

Shallenburger said funding to schools increased $400 million while he was speaker of the House from 1995 through 1998.

The two also argued about the effects of the 1992 vote that established the current school finance system.

Sebelius voted for it, and Shallenburger voted against it. That system transferred most school funding from the local to the state level but did allow local districts to provide some supplemental funding for their schools.

Shallenburger said that funding formula had major flaws and needed fixing. He said the state should determine how much it would cost to provide a constitutionally mandated “suitable” education, then fund that amount. Local districts, he said, should then be allowed to supplement that funding by as much as they want.

Sebelius questioned why Shallenburger didn’t try to change the funding formula when he was in the Legislature, especially during the time he was House speaker. And, she said, the state already has a study that says Kansas is underfunding a “suitable” education.

Shallenburger said he didn’t change the funding formula while speaker because Gov. Bill Graves did not want to do that.