Whether bashed or blandished, either way TGUK are making music for one reason: for themselves, say the brothers Pope, who talked with the World Online’s Phil Cauthon Dec. 1, 2002. The now veteran musicians calmly assess where theyâÂÂve been and where theyâÂÂre headed. Last month they purchased Red House studios in Eudora, renaming it Black Lodge (for legal reasons). They plan to begin work soon with engineer Ed Rose, amping up the studio both by lining it with new equipment and by recording their new record, which could be out by Jan. 2004.

WO :: Last we talked the album hadnâÂÂt quite come out yet, and I think it was Jim (Suptic) who said that âÂÂ’On A Wireâ would either make you guys even bigger or it would ruin your careers. (Rob laughts) WhatâÂÂs your assessment at this point?

Ryan :: Well, so far it hasnâÂÂt done either. ItâÂÂs been just a steady move, nothing crazy by any means.

Rob :: I think we also decided that people were either going to love it or hate itâÂÂ:

Ryan :: And thatâÂÂs true.

Rob :: ItâÂÂs totally true. The people who love the record, you know, itâÂÂs our favorite record of theirs. And aâÂÂ:

Ryan :: ItâÂÂs their favorite record of ours. (laughs)

Rob :: Yeah. ThatâÂÂs what I said! (laughs) Yeah, thatâÂÂs proven to be extremely true. When we go out and play shows and we play the songs from (âÂÂ’On A WireâÂÂ) half the crowdâÂÂs going âÂÂPlay âÂÂ’Ten Minutes!âÂÂâ or any of our other old stuff. And then half the crowd goes crazy when we play the new stuffâÂÂ:

Ryan :: ItâÂÂs a very mixed reaction, which is fine. We didnâÂÂt expect anything but that.

WO :: What have you heard people say about it, whether itâÂÂs your core fans or critics?

Ryan :: ItâÂÂs funny, all the major publications like Rolling Stone, Spin and the larger world-wide magazines are like âÂÂThe Get Up Kids went out on a limb and made a great record and tried some new stuff and it works. ItâÂÂs cool.â And then all the smaller fanzinesâÂÂ:

Rob :: The punk rock fanzinesâÂÂ:

Ryan :: The people who loved our old stuff are saying âÂÂTheyâÂÂve killed anything they were good at. TheyâÂÂre not good any more. Too mid-tempo. Boring. Too much melody.â (Rob laughs)

WO :: How do you take that?

Ryan :: Whatever.

Rob :: WeâÂÂre fine. You canâÂÂt live your life regretting a decision youâÂÂve made. I think weâÂÂre all proud of the record.

Ryan :: Yeah definitely. And I think itâÂÂs bad for any artist or musician or anyone to put too much weight on critics.

Rob :: Critics and journalists. No offense! (laughs)

Ryan :: Yeah, no offense. Those people are there to help you but theyâÂÂre also definitely not there to help you. When it comes down to it, all that matters are the decisions made inside the band.

Rob :: And whatâÂÂs going to keep us happy. ThatâÂÂs it. Too many journalists are (pauses) failed musicians (laughs) and people that are bitter about bands that are doing well at all.

Ryan :: Well thatâÂÂs more on the smaller level. Like the online zines and people that write more just straight up negative, bitter type stuff as opposed to biased opinion.

WO :: Do you guys pay attention to those smaller music zines at all?

Ryan :: Not really. Like when the record first came out, weâÂÂd get the updates, get the press and read stuff. Eventually itâÂÂs just likeâÂÂ:

Rob :: Damaging. If people are telling you that youâÂÂre terrible for so long, then youâÂÂre going to believe it. If people are telling you that youâÂÂre a genius for so long, then youâÂÂre going to believe that. You know? Either way I think that can be damaging to your creative output.

Ryan :: It is nice to hear that people enjoy your record. Of course. But thatâÂÂs more us playing shows and fans coming up and saying stuff. It almost means more when kids come up and go âÂÂThat was the best showâ or âÂÂI love your new recordâ than if you read a review thatâÂÂs âÂÂThis record is a little leap for the Get Up Kids. ItâÂÂs better but itâÂÂs still not that good.â (both laugh)

Rob :: IâÂÂd rather hear it straight from someoneâÂÂs mouth than read it. Means a little more.

WO :: Do you ever step back and look at how far youâÂÂve come in just a few years? You know being in Rolling Stone months in a row, selling tens of thousands of recordsâÂÂ:

Ryan :: Oh yeah. ThatâÂÂs something I think weâÂÂve realized over this past record” itâÂÂs important to set goals as a band. But itâÂÂs not healthy to believe everything everyoneâÂÂs telling you so that you set goals so high, you know âÂÂAlright, no matter what it takes weâÂÂre going to sell a million records.â No, thatâÂÂs not how it works.

Rob :: Selling a million records is a fluke.

WO :: You mean coming from where you guys are at versus ready-made Top 40ers?

Rob :: Right, but even for them itâÂÂs a fluke. TheyâÂÂve dedicated theyâÂÂre lives to selling a million records and for every one that does it, thereâÂÂs a thousand more who donâÂÂt.

Ryan :: Basically we think itâÂÂs important not to ignore the reality of your situation and always be happy with the fact that we can still make records. ThatâÂÂs exciting for us, and we can still play shows and have thousands of people come watch us.

WO :: Or buy a house like this!

(both laugh) Ryan :: Yeah whatever! I havenâÂÂt had a job for five years nowâÂÂ:

WO :: Other than music.

Ryan :: Other than music. And I (pauses) yeah, whateverâÂÂ:

Rob :: WeâÂÂre very lucky.

Ryan :: Yeah, weâÂÂre very fortunate. And we appreciate it.

WO :: Were you happy with the amount of play you got on M2 or radio spins?

Ryan :: It didnâÂÂt do anything on the radio. Radio shot it down.

Rob :: M2 kinda bummed us out because we thought the video was so cool.

Ryan :: We had people from radio and MTV all telling us (with tone of fake sincerity) how much they loved the record, and how itâÂÂs so great, and this and that, and theyâÂÂre going to help us and do this and this. (Rob laughs) And so weâÂÂre like âÂÂ’Cool, weâÂÂve got people excited about the record.âÂÂ

And then a week goes by and itâÂÂs (with deeply apologetic tone) âÂÂ’Oh yeah, we canâÂÂt take the risk because we got this thing called Skater Boys. Skater Boys is on the radio now and thatâÂÂs going to take up an add. Or something like that where people just blow smoke. That goes back to not gettingâÂÂ:

Rob :: Not getting so wrapped up in the business end of it. ItâÂÂs unhealthy for a band to listen to people just blowing smoke up their ass all the time. You can only make so many records where every one they tell you youâÂÂre going to be huge and youâÂÂre going to sell a million records.

Ryan :: WeâÂÂre making another video this month (for âÂÂStay GoneâÂÂ). ThatâÂÂs going to be more for overseas, Japan and Europe.

WO :: Do you get a lot of play on MTV there?

Ryan :: Yeah. We actually do better in Japan than in America.

WO :: DoesnâÂÂt everybody?!

Rob :: ItâÂÂs the Cheap Trick syndrome.

WO :: So youâÂÂre going to Europe and Japan (and Hawaii) after your shows here. What are your plans after you get back? I hear youâÂÂve written a crap load of new songsâÂÂ:

Rob :: WeâÂÂve got about 12 right now, in the process of being demoed and pretty solid as they are now.

WO :: What are they like?

Ryan :: ItâÂÂs just cool. (laughs) I think theyâÂÂre cool songs. TheyâÂÂre more what our band is, I think. More rock, without being your standard rock. ItâÂÂs rock with pretty interesting instrumentation once we get it all finished. A lot of crazy stuff going on. More groove-oriented music.

WO :: Are the lyrics still emo?

Ryan :: WeâÂÂll find out. Right now the lyrics areâÂÂ:

Rob :: Kind of angry. (laughs)

Ryan :: Yeah, angry. And observant. TheyâÂÂre definitely not about girls. (both laugh)

WO :: Will you bust a few out at the show?

Rob :: Yeah, yeah. WeâÂÂll play two or three.