Chat about Lawrence sustainability with Sarah Hill-Nelson
May 21, 2007
This chat has already taken place. Read the transcript below.
Everything from strawberries in November to Lawrence's lack of curbside recycling will be discussed at a town hall forum on Monday aimed at spurring discussion about making the community more environmentally-friendly. Representatives from Liberty Hall, the Wakarusa Music & Camping Festival, Zephyr Energy, and The World Company - which publishes the Journal-World - are teaming up to host the Lawrence Sustainability Town Hall Event from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. on Monday at Liberty Hall, 642 Mass. Sarah Hill-Nelson, owner-operator of The Bowersock Mills and Power Company, will take your questions.
Moderator:
Hi! I'm Joel Mathis, managing editor for convergence, and Sarah has joined us. Welcome, Sarah!
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
Hi! I'm Sarah. I am an owner/operator of The Bowersock Mills and Power Company in Lawrence, and also work for the Bonneville Environmental Foundation, headquartered in Portland, OR.
Moderator:
I'll ask a question before we get to reader questions. Sarah, please tell us about the origins and purpose of tonight's sustainability summit.
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
This really evolved through working with Brett Mosiman of The Wakarusa Festival. Brett and Jami had been working hard to make the Festival more sustainable, and we all started talking about things that could be done in Lawrence. Brett came up with the idea of doing a Town Hall discussion here in town.
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
Jami refers to Jami Sweeney, the Assistant Director of the Festival.
Do Zephyr Energy green tags lead to new renewable energy generation, or do they primarily benefit existing facilities? (And how many off-sets do you need for the giant pick-up truck in your picture?)
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
I'll answer the pick-up question first. That's Bowersock's truck, which we use to transport equipment. Bowersock bought a diesel with the hope that we could use biodiesel. We tried to get Capitol City Oil to put in a pump here, and explored getting a pump down at the plant. Due to the location of the plant, that wasn't feasible. The good news is that Zarco is going to put in a biodiesel station at the corner of 9th and Iowa, so we hope to be filling there within the next several months. Regarding the Zephyr Energy green tags, at least 50% of every Zephyr tag comes from Bowersock. Bowersock is (obviously) not "new." We are, however, considered "re-powered" which is why we qualify to sell Green Tags. We had to document that over 80% of the market value of the plant had been reinvested in the plant since 1999 in order to gain this designation. Regarding how many tags it would take to do the truck, I'll have to check on the biodiesel #. You can go the Zephyr Energy site www.zephyrenergy.org to find out how many green tags it takes to offset your car or truck.
Hi Sarah. Has the issue ever been raised to ask the largest employees in town to switch to biodegradable and non-toxic cleaners for water, environmental issues and for the employees that work in those environments, particularly the USD 497 School District where the majority of our city's children are schooled?
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
I think that is a great suggestion. I hope maybe you could attend the Town Hall tonight to ask that. Another thing to ask USD #497 would be about the school boundaries. Could they be drawn so that children attend the closest school? Some drive 7 miles when there is a school 3 blocks from their home.
What are three simple things I could do at home to be more earth-friendly?
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
1. Install compact florescent lights instead of the standard incandescents. 2. the next time you buy an appliance, make sure it is Energy Star. 3. Consider putting up a clothes line and avoiding using the dryer.
please explain "green tags."
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
Green Tags are also known as Renewable Energy Credits, or Certificates. For a long time people that produced renewable energy have argued that renewable energy is different from standard, conventional polluting energy such as coal-fired energy. Given the way the grid operates, all the energy gets mixed up once it gets on the grid. RECs are a way to pay a little more money for the renewable energy that gets on the grid. You buy a Green Tag, and the producer of renewable energy from whom you bought it gets a better return on his/her investment. The ultimate goal is to promote the establishment of new renewable energy generation.
Hi Sarah. I do find it interesting that Lawrence considers itself a "green city" and yet we do not have curbside recycling programs provided by the city. I know of a city by the name of McKinleyville, California that did not have the resources to start a city wide curbside recycling program but instead residents bought a distinct looking blue trash bag which included their trash pick-up fee. When your bag was full you placed it out on the curb. This prompted individuals to recycle because every time their bag was picked up they had to buy a new one. Is the city looking into systematic steps that would promote recycling in the city if we're not able to implement curbside recycling programs just yet? Also, when the city decided to upgrade their water treatment facility did they look into alternative and sustainable technology? Natural filtration systems? Thank you for all that you do!!!
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
There should be a good deal of discussion about curbside recycling tonight. This is an issue the city has been considering for a long time, and I think the community input will have an impact on the decisions that are made. I had heard that there was some consideration of alternative water treatment systems butI would need to refer that question to the city.
I'm believer that knowledge is power and education is the key. There's a new field by the name of Humane Education that incorporates environmental education with issues such as "pet" overpopulation. It promotes cohabitation with all living things and promotes conservation. Humans are viewed as the stewards within Humane Education. Does the city plan on doing outreach programs for youths and adults in order to empower us with knowledge? Some humane societies across the country employ humane educators to implement these education programs in the schools.
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
Another great question to bring up tonight. I also believe that education is critical to making changes. I hope tonight that people will get to tap in to these discussions and learn about what other cities are doing as well. I think we have to get it out of academic circles and in to mainstream discussion.
Moderator:
To follow an earlier question: How "green" is Lawrence, in your opinion?
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
I think Lawrence has a good start - primarily that we have a significant group of Lawrence people that are thinking about this issue. The City has made some progress on this issue, but they haven't publicized a lot of them. For example, they have been making progress on making buildings more energy efficient. To answer your question more directly, I would say we have a long way to go.
We've begun installing compact florescent bulbs in our home. We found out recently that they have mercury in them and can't simply be tossed out with the trash when they burn out. Where in Lawrence can we take these bulbs to dispose of them properly?
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
The City Solid Waste Division has a site where you can drop off your bulbs. You can just save them in an old shopping bag and take them when you get rid of your batteries. The number for Solid Waste where you can find details is 832-3022. Also, another thing to consider is that the amount of mercury that goes into the atmosphere from burning the coal to light a standard incandescent is far greater than the amount of mercury in the cfl. Way to go for making the change!
Moderator:
After the summit, what next? Are any actions planned to follow tonight's event?
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
I think we'll see how this evening goes and go from there. I think as a long term goal the City should have a sustainability check list. Any time they make a decision, they should check the list and make sure that they are doing what they can to be more sustainable. Everyone needs to communicate with Commissioners and tell them that they care. People have to advocate for themselves.
since the bottom line is usually, well, the bottom line, what are some economic benefits of a greener city?
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
Recently Windsor, Colorado just got a new Vestas wind blade turbine factory. Lawrence has everything that we need to get a plant like that (rail, highways, workforce), but Kansas has developed a reputation nationwide as being "anti-wind." Companies like Vestas are more likely to go to a state like Colorado that has a Renewable Portfolio Standard that encourages renewable energy development. People want to move to towns that are livable. Lawrence will attract people and businesses if we make our town more livable and sustainable.
Moderator:
I think we'll wrap up this chat. Sarah, could you remind folks when and where they can particpate in tonight's summit?
Sarah Hill-Nelson:
The Sustainability Town Hall Event is tonight at Liberty Hall in the 600 Block of Massachusetts from 7-9. We'd love to see a good group of people with probing questions for our city representatives. Three City Commissioners and a County Commissioner among others will be there to listen so it is a great time to get your ideas heard and questions answered.
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Comments
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classclown (Class Clown) says…
The entire "chat" reads more like a pamphlet. Interesting that only certain people were around to ask the proper questions. Everything points to this whole thing "chat" being staged.
commuter (anonymous) says…
Boy I must not understand the whole hoopla. I pay for a green tag- get nothing, and the group I pay from gets my money? I get my power from westar and Aquila. Am I missing something?
Joel (Joel Mathis) says…
Classclown: The chat's been available to take questions since Friday, and went today during our normal time for chats. I put up all but two questions that came in from the public - one "friendly" the other less so - but chose not to use them because I didn't think they worked.
We've got a long history of putting challenging questions to our chatters. But we try not to pose questions that are either nonsensical or more insulting than informative.
Not everyone will agree with the editorial choices we make as we decide which questions to post. And that's fine. This chat, however, was not "staged."
Thanks.
monkeyhawk (anonymous) says…
"please explain "green tags."" ............
Are they kinda like those boog bucks?
toefungus (anonymous) says…
I love this "green" discussion and the picture of a gas guzzling pickup at the start. Yes, she does try to explain it, but it still seems pretty funny to me. True be told, energy conservation in America is about having rich with lots of green, passing the costs of overuse onto the poor. Didn't someone once say "let them eat cake" to those who could not afford food?
merrill (anonymous) says…
The new or remodeled(if ever) library is to meet LEED/green standards.
Buildings account for 39% of CO2 emissions. Green buildings can lower CO2 emmissios by half.
Using less energy = less overhead dollars.
http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx...
emilyhadley (Emily Hadley) says…
When you buy one Renewable Energy Credit (at the offered price, which varies just like electricity prices), the power supplier you buy it from is then obligated to use that amount of money to purchase electricity from renewable energy sources.
What she says about Renewable Energy Credits is accurate; trading them is just an awkward concept, due to the structure of the electrical power distribution grid. The grid can 'upload' electricity in various places from different power sources, then 'download' energy to various users. Electricity doesn't come to us in labeled boxes, just one big stream of electrons coming from all over.
We can't distinguish coal electricity from wind electricity once they are generated and 'uploaded' in the same power line. However, we can pay a slightly higher price on our current electricity use, specifically demanding that the energy provider purchase at least enough renewable source-electricity to cover what we use.
An example: the 'offset' could be the difference between production of wind and coal electricity. If coal energy is 15 cents a Kilowatt hour and wind energy is 20 cents a Kilowatt hour, you could buy such offset credits for 5 cents each and thus obligate Westar Energy to buy that many kWh from a renewable source.
The 'Green Tag' is that 20 cent price tag, while 5 cents is the 'Offset'. It is truly 'credit' because in many cases, we consumers are lending small increments of money in order to help renewable energy trade get off the ground.
When there aren't current sources for energy from renewable sources, but people in that area want the credits (exercising their power of consumer demand in a monopolized industry), the companies have options for how to invest that money into renewable energy, but they still have the base obligation.
That's my best vague interpretation, but others surely have better facts and actual specs on RECs in this region. I'm still learning how this all works in practice.
none2 (anonymous) says…
Sounds like a great way to raise utility rates. Of course, large corporate utilities will never abuse the credit system anymore than they would cheat us on monopoly fake money...
I think a better idea would be to make alternative energy affordable. I imagine it like I do the internet. The computer is MINE, but I'm on a public grid that connect me to the rest of the internet. Imagine if we all (both utilities as well as individual businesses and households) put energy onto the power lines as well as took from it -- two way traffic. We would all be participants in the creation of energy -- not just users.
If I had money to burn, I think it would great to lower my heating bills by relying on geothermal. Likewise, rely on solar & wind (well may be not wind in northeastern Kansas) for a good part of my electric needs. Likewise, it would be great to have even more energy efficient appliances. As we all know, if we simply switch to using an alternative energy with our current demands, we better make sure we have a very LARGE lot for solar panels.
Unfortunately, it is all a pipe dream as it is still way too expensive. Sure there is pay back years down the line, but that is a long time to recoup an expensive upfront cost.
lunacydetector (anonymous) says…
i've always heard that if you drive a diesel pickup truck, you need to drive about 40,000 miles a year to justify its cost through fuel economy.
cgoscha (anonymous) says…
Kent Peterson is a good authority on building energy use - this guy has Kansas roots, lives in Long Beach CA and owns an engineering firm. He is the President of the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers. You should check out his recent testimony in front of the U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming, May 14, 2008, Washington, DC as well as his appearance on the NPR forum - On Point.http://www.eenews.net/tv/transcript/810orhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElT-RIL-iUE