Join Lawrence filmmaker K. Ryan Jones, who will chat at 1:30 p.m. today about his documentary, “Fall From Grace,” in which he is granted unrestricted access to Topeka’s infamous Pastor Fred Phelps. Jones’ cinematic debut was just accepted to the prestigious South By Southwest Film Festival in Austin, Texas.

justthefacts

What do you say to people who believe the best way to prevent hateful speech from gaining too much popularity or being given too much attention is to simply allow it, but not give it any publicity, and thus wish you had not made a film depicting this hate group in any light, positive or negative?

Silence_Dogood

Do you think God hated Fred Phelps?

Texas

Is it true that your project wouldn’t have been nearly so successful without the love and support of your parents-especially your Dad?

Moderator

Greetings. I’m Jon Niccum, entertainment editor of the Lawrence Journal-World, and I’ll be moderating this chat. Please welcome K. Ryan Jones, director of the documentary film “Fall From Grace.” His project takes a behind-the-scenes look at controversial Pastor Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka.

K. Ryan Jones

Hey everyone. I want to thank the Journal World for having me out this afternoon and for all of you who are participating. I’m really excited to chat with all of you.

fabian_zimbabwe

Do you at all feel you’re contributing to the perpetuating problem of glorifying Fred’s messages of hate? It seems he and his ilk have been granted far too many attention-grabbing opportunities in the local and national media. Aren’t you just feeding into his desires and taking this to the next level?

K. Ryan Jones

This is the issue that I come up against the most. It is also one I struggled with personally while making the film. My thoughts are that I think that the way in which we will be best equipped to combat the Phelpses and other groups like them is to know everything we can about them. My goal is to show everything that the Phelpses are about, so that, hopefully, people can understand the true depths of their madness and be better able to dismiss them, to see that they’re not worth our anger and frustration.

unklemonkey

What was it like to attend Mr. Phelps’ sermons?

K. Ryan Jones

It was intense, to say the least. At the pickets there is a certain energy that is pretty overwhelming, but the church services, and Fred’s sermons specifically, are exponentially worse than any picket I attended. He rants for about 45 minutes straight and he also liked to make eye contact with the camera. I think he thought it was somehow effective, but it was really frightening to look into the viewfinder and see those eyes locking indirectly with yours.

justthefacts

Many have speculated that the reason Rev. Phelps has chosen to attack homosexuality harder then he does any other type of sin is that there was something in his past or family that caused such extreme focus on that one topic. For example, one rumor was that one of his off-spring (estranged and living in California) is gay. Did you bring that issue up with him in your film, or detect anything that would indicate if this is true or just an urban myth?

K. Ryan Jones

I can’t speak with absolute certainty on this subject, but my belief is there isn’t anything to the rumors about Fred being a closet homosexual or anything of that nature. As to his past, as far as my research is concerned, I never unearthed anything that would explain why he chooses homosexuality as his focus except for the fact that he has just always been passionate and outspoken about his religious convictions. The offspring issue is another I have to answer a lot, and the unromantic truth of the matter is that none of Fred’s kids are gay. I know that that would be nice poetic justice but it’s just not true. I spoke with both sons that are no longer associated with the church and neither of them are homosexual.

mpaget

Sometimes documentary filmmakers or biographers — people who spend a lot of time with one subject — can become sympathetic to that person, despite their faults. Did you ever find that happening to you when making this film?

K. Ryan Jones

I don’t know if I would say sympathetic. I definitely see them differently than I did when I started the project. It’s hard to spend a lot of time with someone and not find redeeming qualities about them. I guess I just see them as more human, and that’s important, I think. Often, I would hear people calling them demons or saying that Fred was the devil in carnate, but these are just flawed human beings taking part in a long tradition of people misinterpreting the word of God.

Moderator

Ryan, can you speak a little about the challenges you’ve faced being a full-time KU student while dealing with a movie that is gaining national attention?

K. Ryan Jones

I’m not having a problem yet about losing focus on my studies, but it is stressful because I have all these things I have to do, now. I will spend hours on creating a press kit and coding a web site and then I remember I have to read some Shakespeare or watch La Dolce Vita before class the next day. It’s become way more exhausting in recent months than it ever was during production.

baumlaw

I have not seen the documentary. Did you go to the Phelps church and residences when you filmed this documentary? I have heard that there are caverns and such under the church and houses. Did you see any of that? Or is that just a myth?

K. Ryan Jones

Wow! part of my job has become responding to the mythology that surrounds this group, but I haven’t ever heard that one before. I spent time mostly in the main house/church building, Shirley’s home, and Tim’s house, but I never went into any of their basements, so I don’t really have any idea. Sorry. I’ll ask them about that, though.

unklemonkey

I haven’t seen your film (even though I really want to), but in the trailer I saw that one man came up to the picketers and started yelling at them. From your experiences with them, did they get this reaction a lot from people?

K. Ryan Jones

Oh yes! Many people engage them verbally and sometimes physically. In Deleware, last year, they were pelted with rocks and other such things and driven away from where they were picketing. People think they are going to somehow outsmart them in a verbal debate. It just won’t ever happen because they’ve heard it all before and they have twisted the scripture to support whatever they do.

moonunit

What do you feel is the most interesting or best scene in your film?

K. Ryan Jones

For me, it’s the interviews with the estranged children. They really provide the best insight into this group and also the only viable theory I’ve heard to answer the question of why Fred is the way he is. Other people feel that the interviews I did with the young children of the church are the most interesting. I like this, as well, because it gives you a glimpse into the future of this group, but I really have to say I am most proud of the interviews with the estranged children.

trombeck

What do you think will happen to Westboro Baptist Church down the road when Fred Phelps dies? Do the other members seem committed to keeping it going?

K. Ryan Jones

History would tell us that when the charismatic leader dies, the cult usually whithers for one reason or another. My personal belief is that this is not going to stop. One of the Phelpses told me that, if anything, they’re going to be even stronger if Fred dies, because they were raised from day-one to believe what they believe. Notice that I said “if” Fred dies. They don’t really believe that he will die before Christ returns, so it’s not something they really worry about. It seems to me that Tim Phelps is a prime candidate to take over, but they don’t dismiss the notion that someone from outside Westboro could come in. They believe God will provide a minister, though. So, no, I don’t really think it will all go away when Fred dies.

Moderator

Your film is making its national debut at the South By Southwest Film Festival in Austin this March. Do you think people from other parts of the country will react to it differently than Kansans?

K. Ryan Jones

I don’t know. I think that we in Kansas have an obvious interest in this group because, whether we like it or not, they are travelling around representing our state. They really are nationally known, though, and I think that the people of Kansas now more about them than most other people because we’ve been dealing with them for so long. We have some foundational knowledge of the group, but I think people who see them for the first time on the screen are going to be even more shocked than those of us who are familiar with them.

SoundMind

I used to work with Becky quite some time ago and it always seemed to me as if a part of her wanted to “leave” the family but she was afraid to. Did you have any sense of that from any of the kids or grandkids?

K. Ryan Jones

Well, fear is a big theme that runs throughout the identity of this group: fear of God, fear of Fred, fear of Hell, etc. The children who have left the church talk about how there was a lot of fear associated with that decision because to be outside of Westboro’s fold is to be outside of the grace of God. They are taught that if they aren’t at that church, they are going to go to Hell. The fear isn’t an earthly issue. They aren’t afraid of Fred tracking them down and murdering them. To leave would be risking their eternal life.

Moderator

Ryan, thanks for spending time with Journal-World readers. And good luck in Austin.

K. Ryan Jones

Thanks for having me.