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Do you think everyone should have to present a valid ID to vote?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on April 29, 2008

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Photo of Joey Pauda

“Yeah, I think so. I don’t think it’s that much to ask for someone to have one.”

Photo of Gina Gay

“I think they should. You have to be accountable for who you’re voting for. Without verifying that they are who they say they are, they could potentially vote more than once.”

Photo of Matthew Reynard

“No. Some people face difficulties in acquiring identification in the first place, and that would be akin to the disenfranchisement laws used in the South up until the late ‘60s and even today.”

Photo of Mike Brummett

“Yeah, I don’t see any problem with that. It seems reasonable; you have to present one to cash a check.”

Comments

sunflower_sue 7 years, 3 months ago

absolutely!"No. Some people face difficulties in acquiring identification in the first place" -Matthew ReynardUm, like, who?

canyon_wren 7 years, 3 months ago

I think that the election judges (who man the voting districts) should have the authority to REQUEST an ID if they do not know the voter. In our small community, people generally know who is who, but it is also a community that attracts a lot of new residents, so sometimes identification is necessary and our election judges have that authority. Maybe that is common practice elsewhere, as well. I am assuming this is not related to the concept of a National ID, to which I am totally opposed.

canyon_wren 7 years, 3 months ago

Good comments, pywacket! I especially appreciated the following--right on!"You can bet that the same people (usually, by the way, white, privileged, and looking for a cause to argue) who cry "foul" over having to present photo ID to vote would whip that card out with alacrity if told they had just inherited a fortune from a distant relative and had to prove their identity to claim their millions."

Satirical 7 years, 3 months ago

Note to all those who think the minor burden of showing a driver's license outweighs the substantial benefits of deferring voter fraud: The United States Supreme Court disagrees with you. End of story.

stuckinthemiddle 7 years, 3 months ago

logicsound04 has it right...no reason that IDs couldn't be provided free of charge at the time of registration...

sunflower_sue 7 years, 3 months ago

Does anyone know of a good service company that cleans up chicken guts? I need someone...fast.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Py has it right: there are other situations -- not even crazy huge-inheritance situations, but normal everyday situations -- that regularly demand identification, and those don't meet the heavy criticism this idea has met. This is not an undue burden; this is now a normal part of modern life.As far as the government paying for it: I don't know how it is in Kansas, but here in Michigan, an identification card is $10 for able-bodied people under 65.http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-1627_8668-76061--,00.htmlI don't think that's too much to ask.

BrianR 7 years, 3 months ago

prospector (Anonymous) says: If you photograph me, you are taking my soul and can torture me with your VoodooDamn, why didn't I know about this?

Flap Doodle 7 years, 3 months ago

prospector, a less-invasive method of divination involves reading the patterns made when a lemur hurls biosolids against a wall.

oldvet 7 years, 3 months ago

So in 1993 the Democrat controlled congress passed the (so called) Motor Voter law that now requires state agencies that issue or renew drivers licenses to provide anyone applying/renewing the opportunity to register to vote at the same time. And suddenly they now don't want those same people to have to show their (picture) drivers license when they go to vote...

Ceallach 7 years, 3 months ago

Aye, I do! Py hit the nail on the head, no need for me to say more :)

Bubarubu 7 years, 3 months ago

Satirical remarks: "Note to all those who think the minor burden of showing a driver's license outweighs the substantial benefits of deferring voter fraud: The United States Supreme Court disagrees with you. End of story."If the USSC's opinion is to be the final word on all such matters will you post the exact same text the next time someone wants to ban abortion, encourage school-sponsored prayer, oppose an assault weapons ban, etc., etc.?

jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

"It's only $10, not a big deal" is a rather troubling perspective to my mind, especially followed by examples (cashing a check, inheriting a fortune) that are very presumptive of a person's situation. $10 is a lot to some people, a pittance to others, placing an unfair burden on the people most likely to be disenfranchised by this issue. There is no problem, as I see it, with requiring an ID to vote. As some have pointed out, it would be a very good starting point to combat voter fraud. Said ID, however, Must be free. Not $10, not $5, not $1. Free. Anything else constitutes a voting tax, in my opinion. I do not see any particular reason why a picture could not be included extremely cheaply in a slightly better form of registration card, which you already receive from the government when you register. I have not researched this at all, so its possible that methods of this sort are already available. If so, then they should be promoted more heavily, such as when you register to vote.

hawklet21 7 years, 3 months ago

I don't care. I would have mine with me anyway.

Ceallach 7 years, 3 months ago

Jonas, you make a very good case for free IDs for those who do not have driver's license, etc. IMHO, so many tax dollars are squandered on projects and special concern issues (rarely benefiting anyone other than those doing the research) that free IDs should not put any state in a bind. I agree, there must be no charge for said identification. However, the issuance should not include individuals with current photo IDs from the state (DL or a state ID card).

vpete69 7 years, 3 months ago

Does everyone know that you can go to the f'n DMV and get a KS ID card for $5 as long as you have some proof that you are a citizen of the US? This means: Immigration papers or a birth certificate. A birth certificate can be obtained in about a week by writing to the office of vital statistics in Topeka. Immigration papers....lol...how many immigrants in the US do you think have lost their immigration papers? Maybe like....ZERO! If you were a legal immigrant, wouldn't you keep something like immigration papers in a safe or safety deposit box? lol..But yeah, I can see how difficult it is to get ID. How stupid can people be? Why is it that certain people in this country feel like everyone deserves a handout...like we have to help everyone with every little task that they don't want to do...or inconveniences them? Maybe its because of people like logicsound and Matt Reynard. Seriously, are there that many LEGAL voters out there that don't have identification? Is it really that much of a problem that has forced logicsound to propose 'free ID at registration'? Free ID at registration? And what are these people required to bring to prove they are US citizens? Or is it like this: Voter: "Hola, nombre Jose Martinez Rojo. Identificación necesitar" Poll Worker: "Welcome to the United States. Here is your ID sir. Take the 3rd booth on the right." "Awww...they don't have an ID to vote.. Its okay. Allah forbid that they have to find their immigration papers or birth certificate so they can go get one themselves. I mean, they're only 18 years old....or 80. You can't expect them to know much." I thenk I git stupaderr evree day i reed peepols commints on heer.

Phill_Davis 7 years, 3 months ago

"You can bet that the same people (usually, by the way, white, privileged, and looking for a cause to argue) who cry "foul" over having to present photo ID"Voting ID laws disenfranchise young minorities, the elderly, and the disabled at disproportionate rates. I haven't seen research on the argumentative. Also, just because you're white and privileged doesn't mean you shouldn't complain about additional voting burdens. "Just because voting is a right, does not mean it should be utterly chaotic and unregulated."It's not, it's already governed by a registration process which involves proving your residence via a utility bill or other official document, including ID. The county clerk's office vets voter registration and largely eliminates the need for voters to prove their identity at the polling place. Voter fraud is a non-problem that's been ginned up by the GOP so that at the polling place they can exclude minorities, the poor, the elderly, and the disabled, constituencies which largely vote for Democrats. These laws are operative-driven and non-democratic. Functional arguments like "you need IDs for lots of things" are specious - cashing a check isn't a Constitutional right.

sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Jonas -- I'm good with the idea of ID accompanying registration, and I could go for that being free as a limited piece of identification for the purpose of voting. That could work.Phill -- you were doing okay until you got all partisan ("...been ginned up by the GOP..."). Then you just sounded like a talk radio hack. Just talk about the actual issues and leave the party rhetoric out of it.

jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

Ceallach: Agreed. It shouldn't be too difficult to link the registration system to the DMV to reduce redundency. Then the fee for a drivers liscence becomes a fee for what it should be for: to drive a car in the public arena. If the Republicans are going to propose this measure, they should include a method of practical implementation to make it work, and overcome the objections that are Obviously and certainly going to spring from the proposal. That they don't, to me, just shows that this is election year bulls#$t.

George_Braziller 7 years, 3 months ago

Having a photo ID is something that most people take for granted. If you don't have one it can be extremely difficult to get one. If you don't have a driver's license you have to have a birth certificate to present to get a state issued photo ID. BUT you have to present a photo ID to get a copy of your birth certificate. It's a Catch 22.__________"No. Some people face difficulties in acquiring identification in the first place, and that would be akin to the disenfranchisement laws used in the South up until the late '60s and even today."

thomgreen 7 years, 3 months ago

Everyone is debating as if their vote actually counts.

pisafromthewest 7 years, 3 months ago

Nice try, logicsouse, but what you said was that "A SSN is just as unique as, if not moreso than, a photo." I never said obtaining a forged DL wasn't hard, but it's a darned sight harder to manufacture a laminated piece of multicolored plastic along with the embedded symbols and holographic images than it is to, oh, use a 9 digit number that belongs to someone else."Speaking of that, were any of the stolen SSNs in the story you cited used to falsely register?"And again, small one, I was disputing your contention that SSN's are "unique," being as how, obviously, more than one person can pull a number out the air and use it.

vpete69 7 years, 3 months ago

Voting is a privelege. Not a right. And who doesn't have some sort of photo ID that is a legal resident? You have to have one to open a bank account, you have to have one to drive a car, you have to have one to cash SS checks or ANY check from the government, have to have one to fill many prescriptions, have to have one even if you are here on a temporary work permit or green card. You have to have one to get a job, get married, buy a car, sign a lease or mortgage, rent an apartment, buy booze, buy a gun, get a passport, go to school, and even to open an account at Blockbuster. LOL...you even have to have your driver's license # or state ID # on your tax return. So again...WHO doesn't have an ID? If you dont have one, that means that you do NONE of the above...also meaning that you dont pay taxes...and/or are not a citizen of the United States....Now, tell me again why people shouldn't have to have ID to vote. Please?

blahblahblah 7 years, 3 months ago

"You have to be held accountable for who you're voting for" (From Gina's answer). Are all those who voted republican in 2000 and 2004 to be held accountable for George Bush? That would be interesting. Maybe they could all start to pay off the debt from the war...

Adrienne Sanders 7 years, 3 months ago

vpete69- I'd have a hard time getting my birth certificate by writing to Topeka, b/c I wasn't born in Kansas. If I want to get one from the state where I was born, it costs $15 and takes a lot longer than two weeks. You're oversimplifying things greatly.That said, I agree that having a photo ID to vote, or a utility bill or something with your name on it at least does not seem like too much to ask. They ask that much to get a library card. Hey maybe people could show their library cards to vote.

Bubarubu 7 years, 3 months ago

sgtwolverine snarls: "you were doing okay until you got all partisan (":been ginned up by the GOP:"). Then you just sounded like a talk radio hack. Just talk about the actual issues and leave the party rhetoric out of it."Since the lead opinion in the USSC decision explicitly recognized the partisan motivation behind the issue AND pointed out that there was no evidence of fraud that would demonstrate the need for the law, the actual issues are clearly partisan. To say otherwise is to demonstrate rank ignorance of the issue.

vpete69 7 years, 3 months ago

blahblahblah: maybe you could start paying off the $26.3 billion per year that illegal immigrants cost the Federal Government. Ill be fair and just make you pay off the net debts they have caused since 2000. After they pay taxes, the Fed Gov't is only left with $10 billion/year. And you must pay off not just federal deficits, but state's as well. California has racked up a debt of $89 billion since 2000 due to illegals. After you give amnesty and open the borders, then you can start paying off the $30 billion per year that the amnesty program will cost.Its the left who supports amnesty and open borders. You support it, you pay for it. Fed Debt from illegals: $80 billion since 2000CA Debt from illegals: $89 billion since 2000Other states: $400 billion since 1996

fu7il3 7 years, 3 months ago

No one seems to have a problem producing ID's to get a six pack. I don't think an ID of some sort to vote should be a problem.

vpete69 7 years, 3 months ago

A new study by the Heritage Foundation found that a household headed by an individual without a high school education, including about two-thirds of illegal aliens, costs U.S. taxpayers more than $32,000 in federal, state and local benefits. That same family contributes an average of $9,000 a year in taxes, resulting in a net tax burden of $22,449 each year.Over the course of the household's lifetime that tax burden translates to $1.1 million. ======================================================================$22,449 x 4 (years) = $89,796I have NO problem letting a family of illegals vote if they showed up at every presidential election with $89,796 (cash) to pay back back the government. Showing us a little gratitude for letting you milk our economy dry for the last 30 years cant do any harm.

blahblahblah 7 years, 3 months ago

vpete69: those are some big numbers that you've thrown around. Any legit sources to back those up? (no, Fox News does not count)The war in Iraq will cost an estimated 3 trillion dollars (12 billion a month, 16 if you count Afganistan)http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.htmlCould you remind me which is larger, a trillion or a billion?

blahblahblah 7 years, 3 months ago

And, those numbers are since 2000, I guess you are accountable for that too, since Bush was in office those years....

sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Wait, I'm snarling now? That's fun! From now on, I plan to snarl instead of simply comment.Anyway, yes, it's fully partisan -- if you're talking about the politics behind the law. But if you're talking about the actual issue of whether or not valid ID should be required -- which is what this question is asking -- then the partisan background really needn't come into play.

George_Braziller 7 years, 3 months ago

The catch phrase is "some form of I.D." It all depends on what the requirements are of the agency, organization, or service provider. Sometimes "ID" is showing up in person, showing a lease, a notarized document, a utilitiy bill, etc. Doesn't require a photo ID for any of them._______justfornow (Anonymous) says: How does one function in society without some form of I.D.? Its impossible.

jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

fu7il3 (Anonymous) says:"No one seems to have a problem producing ID's to get a six pack. I don't think an ID of some sort to vote should be a problem."Are you suggesting that we should view voting and picking up a six pack within the same light or context? That's somewhat disturbing.

George_Braziller 7 years, 3 months ago

You must be 20-something to think that everyone has to produce an ID to get a six pack. The last time I had to produce a photo ID was when I was 36 and buying a carton of smokes (I look younger than my years) and that was ten years ago. Once again it is about a photo ID not just some form of identification._______fu7il3 (Anonymous) says: No one seems to have a problem producing ID's to get a six pack. I don't think an ID of some sort to vote should be a problem.

Sagecasey 7 years, 3 months ago

I totally agree with the free ID's. However, if these are issued for free, don't you think that the government will find another taxable way to recoup the cost, so it stills ends up as a voting tax just described differently, ie a rose by any other name is still a rose.

jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

There are costs and taxes associated with all forms of government functioning. It would be an identification tax, not a voting tax. The primary purpose being to confirm who you are as a citizen within this country when dealing with the government, and anyone who would recognize the ID as being a sage and legitimate form of identification. Voting would be only one aspect, so you couldn't call it a voting tax.

Flap Doodle 7 years, 3 months ago

justfornow, try telling that to all the people standing on street corners waiting to be offered an under-the-table casual labor job. There are hordes of them in any major city.

pisafromthewest 7 years, 3 months ago

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says: "No, unless they are provided free of charge when you register."So, they wouldn't have to have one to register? Great. Good plan.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -dulcinea47 (Anonymous) says: "If I want to get one from the state where I was born, it costs $15 and takes a lot longer than two weeks. You're oversimplifying things greatly."The election's in November. Try not waiting until Halloween to send for one.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -jonas (Anonymous) says: "Are you suggesting that we should view voting and picking up a six pack within the same light or context? That's somewhat disturbing."And it's less disturbing to say we should view voting more lightly, and place lighter restrictions on it, than buying a sixpack?

jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

"And it's less disturbing to say we should view voting more lightly, and place lighter restrictions on it, than buying a sixpack?"No, that's equally disturbing. When did I say that?

budwhysir 7 years, 3 months ago

not sure I think everyone should be voting in the first place. However I think this would open up a whole new way of dealing with all of the VUI problems we have (VOTING UNDER THE INFLUENCE)and what about all the vwi offenses, this would give us easy identification for all of the chads hanging out there now wouldnt it?

TheBurf 7 years, 3 months ago

I agree. I do agree though that we should provide identifications free of charge. If we can afford to give every taxpayer 600 smackers, I think we could afford to IDs as well.

pisafromthewest 7 years, 3 months ago

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says: "A name and social security number is sufficient. A SSN is just as unique as, if not moreso than, a photo."Because you're getting so pitiful, logicsouse, I'll give you a little help here: It might, just might, be easier to hand someone a false ID with someone else's SS# on it than it would to hand them one with someone else's freakin' picture on it. Or did you forget this already:http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/apr/17/nearly_300_arrested_immigration_raids/Right. Nobody would ever use someone else's SS#.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Anonymous) says: "You do not have to show I.D. if you register to vote by mail. "Seems all the more reason to verify who the person is when they show up in person."You do not have to be a citizen to obtain a drivers license."You do, however, to be legally registered to vote, and the DL at least allows the poll workers to verify whether the person signing in and the name on the voter list are a match.

deskboy04 7 years, 3 months ago

What is the problem with showing them a picture id? I have to show one when I use my credit card or write a check. It seems to me that voting is more important than writing a check at the grocery store.

pisafromthewest 7 years, 3 months ago

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says: "It's not about what's "harder". It's about whether or not the practice of falsifying SSNs in order to cast a fraudulent vote actually occurs."Oh, is that what it's about ... now? Because if it is, then maybe you should have said that ... then. What you said (then) was "A name and social security number is sufficient. A SSN is just as unique as, if not moreso than, a photo." At least you've realized that was a stupid enough comment to stop trying to defend it ... by claiming that's not what it's about."That evidence CANNOT exist until photo IDs have been implemented and we see the resulting turnouts over the various demographic categories."You're as uninformed as you are arrogant, logicsouse. The law was in place for the last election. How many people got turned away, logicsouse? How many groups were disenfranchised? And if you read the decision (like that's going to happen) you'd know the Justices cited several examples of actual fraud. But don't let the facts get in the way of your whining."And if by "having a hard week" you mean having a difficult time shaking the constant pestering of a hypocritical forum troll, then yes, it has been very hard."And again, if I don't answer your posts, I'm "running away," if I do, I'm "pestering. Pssant. I wasn't referring to myself, troll-boy. You've been getting your a* handed to you be a lot of folks this week, logicsouse. I've been reading these forums a lot longer than I've been posting, and you used to have some interesting things to say. But your overinflated ego has turned your "body of work" in these forums into nothing more than the whinings of an arrogant poser, and no matter how many times you say you don't care what others are saying about you, I know you've seen that I'm far from the only one who's noticed.

jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

deskboy04 (Anonymous) says:"What is the problem with showing them a picture id? I have to show one when I use my credit card or write a check. It seems to me that voting is more important than writing a check at the grocery store."When you enter into a private agreement with a vendor, which you implicitly and explicitly do when either using a credit card to make a purchase or writing a check to a grocery, you have to follow along with their restrictions and requirements in order to complete the transaction, whether that is showing your license, writing your phone number on the check, etc. Voting is a facet of the social contract between the governing body of our society and its citizens, and while it is also subject to a number of restrictions, none of those are that you have to have cash to pay for the ability to vote, so requiring a citizen to pay for a license in order to vote is breaking the existing social contract, on the part of the government.

Buggie7 7 years, 3 months ago

If they are in this country legally and voting on our government and our government issues. They need to provide ID to prove they are citizens here. If you are not a citizen here than you should not be voting anywhere than where you are a citizen. There are other forms of ID for those boo hooing about the DL or ID cost and if you need ID and cant afford it SRS wants everyone to have ID's so they will help you obtain one. You can use passports, military ID, something with a picture on it. Jonas your paragraph was mindless babble. If you believe that you should not have to provide information to cash a check or use some services then pay cash. As a professional in Lawrence I can tell you with all the bad checks coming through I want that info. I want to know who to go after and where when that check doesnt clear the back and most merchants anywhere in the US will back me up on that. This is why most eateries in Lawrence wont take checks anymore. period. too much hassle from the people who apparently do not want to pay for their food or other items.I know some one that is a wedding planner and put on this beautiful 15,000 wedding for a couple who wrote them a check. It bounced and of course they had moved to Hawaii. With that ID was able to track them down and sue the pants off of them. The phone number on the check happened to be the brides mothers house too. Without all of this info on this check she would have been soooooo screwed.

Buggie7 7 years, 3 months ago

You know I thought I was going to fall out of my chair when I looked through and saw Marions response to this article."yes"Holy Udders He only said one word thats it one word Im shocked.Yes Marion I used the word "udder" just for you LOL (sticking out tongue) Hee Hee

vpete69 7 years, 3 months ago

I still find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that there are people who are able to function in life without a photo ID. Who are these people? I would love to hear from them.

KSChick1 7 years, 3 months ago

A State of Kansas ID card (not driver's license) is $18 as of January 30th, 2008. I know, had to take the teenager to get one before we could apply for our passports. Not an unreasonable expense, but I had the money to spare. Not everyone does.However, like it's been pointed out above, we all need an id card of some sort. I choose to use my driver's license. I never know any of the ol fogies who are manning the voting booths so if they asked me to present id to match my identity up with their list proving I'm who I say I am and that I can vote based on my home address-I'm all for it.We have to show ID for so many things anyway, why should voting be any different?

jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

"Jonas your paragraph was mindless babble. If you believe that you should not have to provide information to cash a check or use some services then pay cash."Well, if you lack the ability to clearly follow what was really a very explicitly clear post, then I'm sure it would be mindless babble. But if you think I was saying that you shouldn't have to present ID to cash or write a check, it's pretty clear that you are not capable of reading with understanding. Go back and try again.

Buggie7 7 years, 3 months ago

Ks Chick. again for those who cannot afford it contact SRS

pisafromthewest 7 years, 3 months ago

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says: ^|||Missing any semblance of a clue."If someone "picks a number out of the air" and sends it in to register, their registration will be denied."logicsouse, I know you've been having a tough week, but really. You think it's harder, or even as hard, to put someone else's name and SS# on a voter registration form, than it is to use their driver's license with their picture on it? Can you really be that dense? (Never mind, it was a rhetorical question.)"All requiring a photo ID does is prevent people from going to the polls and claiming they are someone else. If this is a widespread problem, then show me some evidence. Until that occurs, we are "fixing" a problem that doesn't exist."No kiddin', really, that's what voter ID laws are for? By the way, where is the evidence that this causes any hardship? Where's the evidence that anyone's been disenfranchised?

KSChick1 7 years, 3 months ago

Buggie7 (Anonymous) says: Ks Chick. again for those who cannot afford it contact SRSHuh? I didn't say anything about me not being able to afford whatever you are talking about. I have a driver's license. I paid for my child to have a state id. I paid for passports. I don't deal with SRS in any way, shape, or form.I'm not understanding your comment to me. Thanks anyway.

ralphralph 7 years, 3 months ago

"Some people face difficulties in acquiring identification ..."There's a fine argument. People like ... illegal aliens? It's not too hard, apparently. Just check your local meatpacking plant.People on welfare in our community tend to be obese and have satellite TV.They could skip a meal to pay for an I.D. card.

vpete69 7 years, 3 months ago

logicsound says: "All requiring a photo ID does is prevent people from going to the polls and claiming they are someone else. If this is a widespread problem, then show me some evidence. Until that occurs, we are "fixing" a problem that doesn't exist."=====================================You should apply the same beliefs to the issue of CCH. Show me where in Utah or Colorado there has been any problems with concealed carry by students. 60 combined semesters of concealed carry on these campuses...and not a single incident. Yet, you want to enforce rules to prohibit something that has never happened, but MIGHT. I highly doubt that the issue of 'voter fraud' has those kinds of statistics. I want to enforce rules to prohibit something that DOES happen. As I said before, I'm all for allowing illegals to vote as long as they can show up with $27,000 to pay off the debt they have racked up over the last 4 years.

pisafromthewest 7 years, 3 months ago

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says: "What is with this continued reference to the "body of work" comment? Originally, it was made in a discussion I was having with notajayhawk."Oops, forgot, baby cries when someone responds to something he addressed to another poster ... on a public message board (do you even understand that concept, troll?). logicsouse: "Boo hoo, I said something to someone I didn't think would know how stupid it was, and someone else caught it and pointed it out, boo hoo." I keep referencing that post, troll, because it's the prime example of what a pompous, arrogant, egotistical blowhard you are. As for how nota and I have on three (I believe) occasions forgotten to sign off before the other used the computer, I believe nota addressed that to the people he cared to know ... can't understand why you weren't cc'd on the memo, other than the fact that he cares about as much as I do what you think.Between this and the fact that you can't seem to avoid "accidentally" posting as him/her (it has happened more than once), one has to wonder if you are really two different people, or if pisawork is the username you use to satiate your childish rants."IF I was the type to report other posters for inappropriate conduct, you have more than enough history to get yourself removed, and I'm not the only one who has been the target of your juvenile flares. Lucky for you, I'd rather watch you continue to hem and haw at me for having an opinion than waste my time trying to get you removed. If you were booted, however, I would not be surprised."I have had exactly 4 posts removed, all during one exchange on one thread, with ... you guessed it ... logicsouse/defender, and those posts were removed as well. Now, logicsouse, how many others have you had removed? But by all means, be my guest, you whiny little troll. Suggest removal on every one of my posts or report me for harassment. Last time I saw the usage agreement, it didn't say I had to refrain from disputing the mindless driven of a pretentious windbag."As far as these "other people", the sooner you stop looking for validation from 3rd parties, the better."Looking for, troll? Enjoying, hardly "looking for." Many of the recent posts pointing out how lowly you're regarded in these forums happened without me even being there, as well you know. I point them out because you, as usual, tried to pretend that I'm the only one "pestering" you, when there's actually quite a chorus. (continued below)

TopJayhawk 7 years, 3 months ago

That whole argument about not being able to afford an I.D. is so stupid... It's easy to afford it, you might just have to give up a couple hours of meth. I know of which I speak so don't come on here and drivel around about how unfair it is to the poor um, underemployed folks.

pisafromthewest 7 years, 3 months ago

(continued from above)Which is a shame. As I said, I used to read your stuff when it was decent. I even remember the day you 'jumped the shark.' Before that, you disagreed with people while acknowledging that their opinions were valid, instead of putting yourself firth as the world's foremost expert on every subject under the sun. If you said something stupid you'd own up to the mistake, instead of digging yourself deeper and deeper trying to spin it. There used to be plenty of people who respected your posts even if disagreeing with them, instead of laughing their collective a** off when you post. Pity."Photo-ID laws like the one in Indiana prevent one particular kind of fraud: showing up at the ballot box and attempting to cast a vote in place of a registered voter."Or a dead voter. and one of the more-than-half of registered voters who don't cast ballots. Without ID's, it's also impossible to catch or punish someone from doing so ... even if the real person shows up, the fake voter is gone and there's no way of knowing who it was. Now, even if they showed up with a fake ID, they'd be limited to voting only in the place of that one person (who they'd have to hope hadn't shown up yet), instead of picking a name from the voting list laying on the table in front of them. (Maybe you can't read a name on the table in front of you that's upside down, but most people can. Just as easily as they can see whether that name has been checked off.)"While they could not catch the person, the original fraudulent vote could be caught and eliminated."Really?Care to take a crack at explaining how, genius-boy? Once the ballot has been submitted, how exactly can that vote be "caught and eliminated?" You really are delusional, aren't you?"The burden is clear, and the benefit has yet to be demonstrated."Again, really? Where has the burden been demonstrated, logicsouse? How many voters were disenfranchised in the 2006 Indiana election? Proof? Citations? Anything to back up your expert opinion, or are you as usual blowing smoke out of your butt? And the benefits were evidently demonstrated sufficiently to convince the only people who mattered, the majority of the Supreme Court justices.Oh, and by all means keep throwing out the tired old absentee ballot argument. What you neglect to mention (in comparison to your inaccurate drivel as to how hard it would be to vote in someone else's name at the poll) is that in order to fraudulently vote with an absentee ballot, you have to have access to the mailbox that the ballot was sent to. Kinda' limits the opportunity. Not to mention that absentee ballots can be validated (e.g. by signature) and, unlike polling place ballots, can be reversed if found to be fraudulent.

beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

A valid I.D., and the ability to work a butterfly ballot.

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