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Archive for Monday, June 13, 2011

Statehouse Live: Kansas NOW seeks apology for confiscation of news conference props

June 13, 2011, 12:42 p.m. Updated June 13, 2011, 12:55 p.m.

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Kansas NOW state coordinator Kari Ann Rinker, behind the podium, and the tires in question during June 1 news conference outside the Capitol Building.

Kansas NOW state coordinator Kari Ann Rinker, behind the podium, and the tires in question during June 1 news conference outside the Capitol Building.

— The Kansas chapter of the National Organization for Women has written Gov. Sam Brownback, asking for an apology because of what the group said was harassment from Capitol police during a recent news conference about a legislator's statements related to an abortion bill.

“Your security’s confused, erratic and bullish behavior at the Capitol Building in Topeka was unacceptable,” Kari Ann Rinker, state coordinator for Kansas NOW, said in a letter.

On June 1, Rinker had taken three used tires to the Capitol as props to protest remarks made by state Rep. Pete DeGraaf, R-Mulvane.

During House debate in May on a bill that would prohibit insurance companies from covering abortion procedures for victims of rape or incest, unless they purchase a separate abortion insurance policy in advance, DeGraaf said women needed to plan ahead and mentioned he carried a spare tire in case his car gets a flat.

Kansas NOW has called on DeGraaf to apologize, but he has refused. He has said his comments were taken out of context, but he has declined to say how.

The bill was approved by the Legislature and signed into law by Brownback.

Rinker said she had called Capitol police and was cleared to bring the tires into the building during the final day of the legislative session. But as she set up outside the House chamber, an officer confiscated the tires.

She got the tires back and then placed them outside the building on the south steps for a news conference. Capitol police arrived and ordered her to remove them, but, after several minutes of discussion, they relented, she said. She then held the news conference.

“Freedom of speech is a guarantee to all citizens, even those with whom the current administration may disagree,” Rinker said in her letter. “I am requesting that an apology for this treatment be provided to me and my organization.”

The governor’s office did not comment on Rinker’s letter.

Comments

irvan moore 3 years, 6 months ago

i got $5.00 says she doesn't get an apology, this administration is not woman friendly, actually, if you are not one of "them" I don't think they're friendly period

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

Well it just looks like more liberal feminist belly aching...this really is not going to help the pro-abort NOW's image very much. Just because you can't bring some stinky old tires into the capitol building...

ivalueamerica 3 years, 6 months ago

clearly, you do not have a value of freedom of speech. Clearly, you do not hold the value of keeping your word. It is difficult for me to listen to you try to maintain moral high ground when we know damn well that if it had been an anti choice group treated exactly the same way, you would have been outraged.

You have no morals or values whatsoever, only sides and that makes you neither a patriot nor a good Christian.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

my goodness could you get a little more personal?...

ivalueamerica 3 years, 6 months ago

yes, instead of assail an entire sex, or movement such as you continue to do, I only hold you accountable for what you say.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

I have never assailed an entire sex. I speak on behalf of the most defenseless little ones.

rtwngr 3 years, 6 months ago

This organization is not about lifting up all women. They like to pick and choose based on their agenda. If you're a conservative woman, forget it. They will feed on you like a school of sharks. This is the most hypocritical organization to walk the face of the Earth. They had nothing to say when Bill Clinton was caught, literally, with his pants down and his crotch in an intern's face. Where have they been on Weinergate? Sorry, this organization has no credibility at all. They should be apologizing for wasting the oxygen around them.

ivalueamerica 3 years, 6 months ago

really, that is funny coming from you..no one eats their own faster than the extreme right.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

sounds like another "personal" attack...

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 6 months ago

This pretty much sums up most of your posts. Thanks for choosing to provide a synopsis instead of wasting a bunch of space.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 6 months ago

@consumer1: The issue is capitol police interfering with free speech outside our legislature. Every American should be concerned about that, regardless of his political views.

Instead you see this as an opportunity for name calling. Good luck with the reputation you make.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 6 months ago

The police ordered the tires removed but relented after a few minutes of discussion. And the news conference went forward as planned. I'm all for freedom of speech but fail to see where that freedom of speech was violated.

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

The article also states that she claims she had been cleared to bring the tires inside the building, but was not allowed to.

I don't know if it counts as free speech or not, depends on how broad your definition is, I suppose.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 6 months ago

Free speech is not limited to words. It can also be symbolic conduct, e.g., wearing an armband or standing on a U.S. flag (if you're crazy like the Phelpses).

This incident is troubling because it is political speech outside the capitol and the capitol police should have training/experience with it.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 6 months ago

I assume there are limits as to what can be brought into the building. If discussing car sales, may I bring in a used car?
As to outside the building, it went off as planned after a brief discussion. No problem there.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

I don't believe there was any problem with the free speech...just the stinky old tires coming into our Capitol building...

MyName 3 years, 6 months ago

They had cleared it earlier, then someone (most likely an unfriendly legislator or staff member) obviously complained about it. And it's funny that you're complaining about the tires, but not about the comment the legislator made that prompted them.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 6 months ago

Funny how you assume the objection came from an unfriendly legislator or staff. My first thought was that the request made by phone didn't reach the level of cop on the streets. But after a brief discussion, maybe a call up the line of command, it was given the go ahead.

MyName 3 years, 6 months ago

The article said she got prior approval which I'm sure she would have mentioned to the officer who was clearing the tires away from her first chosen location. So clearly, they must have talked to someone up the chain who told them things had changed. She then had to move her conference outside the building to resume with the prop. The Capitol police then asked her to remove them from that place but she talked them into letting them stay.

I would assume that, since her original location was in front of the House chamber, it would have been someone related to house business like a legislator or staff. But hey, the only people who know for sure aren't commenting.

Glenn Reed 3 years, 6 months ago

"He has said his comments were taken out of context, but he has declined to say how."

I'm thinking the GOP's official definition for "out of context" is "Sounds bad when said in context."

somedude20 3 years, 6 months ago

Saying that you can tell where a person is from by the color of their skin, fine. Saying that all illegal immigrants should be shot like feral hogs, fine Saying that OPOSSUM the other Dark Meat is greasy (when referring to Obama), fine Having a peaceful protest (after clearing it with TOP-Police) with 3 tires as props because an idiot said something stupid, pure evil and must be stopped. Evil doers! How dare you try and stop the undoing of decades of women's rights!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

I don't equate killing and dismemberment of little unborn babies with "decades of women's rights. This is pure evil what is happening at these abortion mills and it must me stopped. We will not be satisfied until all of these abortion "killing centers" are closed and unborn children are once again protected by the law. The unborn have "rights" as well and we the pro-life citizens must assert those rights.

MyName 3 years, 6 months ago

Are you using the royal "we" there? How about you explain how more government legislation is going to help solve a social problem because clearly that's what governments are good at is micromanaging other people' lives.

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 6 months ago

Shall I point out the numerous ways in which you're wrong? Dramatize much? The unborn are just that. Personhood begins at birth.

oldvet 3 years, 6 months ago

Well, maybe not quite...

Kansas: Under "Alexa's Law," signed into law on May 9, 2007, as part of HB 2062, effective July 1, 2007, an "unborn child," meaning "a living individual organism of the species homo sapiens, in utero, at any stage of gestation from fertilization to birth," is defined as a "person" and a "human being" for the purposes of the Kansas statutes against first degree murder, second degree murder, capital murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, vehicular homicide, and numerous battery offenses.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

That is your definition. Those of us who speak up for the unborn disagree with your view. We believe that personhood begins at the moment of conception! We believe that unborn children have value and should be protected by the law.

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 6 months ago

Oh the DRAMA! Take a deep breath and come back to reality, champ.

somedude20 3 years, 6 months ago

let me fix that for you, unborn fetus, there. Ok, yes, when you take away a womans choice, healthcare, access to birth control as well women's health tests, yes that is undoing what took decades to get. Sorry you have Gynophobia!

ivalueamerica 3 years, 6 months ago

Yes, I realize you find it God's will that a woman be raped by her father and be forced to breed even though doing so might kill her in the process.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

Hummm---? what are you smoking? Don't think you got that from anything I said...

ivalueamerica 3 years, 6 months ago

but that is exactly what you are supporting, not only limiting abortion, but taking away the woman's right to have an abortion if she is raped and in some cases even in the case of her life in jeopardy. There have been 12 attempts to redefine rape in the last 6 months by the GOP, there have been more than 7 bills introduced to remove the right of a woman to receive an abortion in the case of rape, incest and if her life were in danger. If that is not what you are supporting, then you should be talking to your forced breeding compatriots and see if you can convince them to tone it down a bit. Otherwise, it is a war on women.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

Guess you don't get it--we believe that we pro-life people believe that dismemberment of children in the womb is ALWAYS wrong! That is why we advocate to change these pro-abortion anti-women laws and once again protect both women and children from the abortionists knife! By the way the exact same position that was taken by Susan B. Anthony suffrage crusader.

Scott Morgan 3 years, 6 months ago

I think the buffoon Rep. Pete DeGraaf should resign. Far far from being a fan of political correctness there are no jokes about rape which even come close to being humorous.

But,

Trying to keep score, Brownback is anti.......... art, agnostics, big government, education, illegal immigrants, government funding, poor people, and now women in general. He must be some horrible dude. Bet he even yelled at his momma and stole collection plate money.

How did he get elected?

tomatogrower 3 years, 6 months ago

Actually he is not anti-big government, but he's conviced everyone that he is.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

Guess you must have gotten it wrong. Brownback is a great Governor who wants to restore our respect for the values of hard work, traditional values, and respect for the law. He also wants to protect the unborn by building up a culture of life in Kansas. I think he is doing an outstanding job as our leader.

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 6 months ago

He's got the wool pulled over your eyes, don't he?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

what's wrong with your eyes? Why can't you see the good this Governor is doing--he is doing some great things for Kansas- even if the liberals at KU don't like it.

gatekeeper 3 years, 6 months ago

Thanks for laugh. Made me spit out my afternoon tea! I would really love for you to elaborate on all these points and show examples of how he respects hard work (maybe he respects lobbyists working hard), who's traditional values I don't know and what respect for the law? Explain how he's building a culture of life (except for his anti-abortion B.S.).

I know many that won't call themselves republican because of Sam and his lies.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 6 months ago

I'm really curious as to the "we" you spoke of. To date, you are very much in a minority here. But hey, we don't live in Hugoton either so just maybe the whole thirty people who live there all feel the way you do. If they do, they certainly aren't saying it here or anywhere else I can find.

hwarangdo 3 years, 6 months ago

The tires were in response to blatant remarks by Pete DeGraaf stating women might as well get used to the fact they'll be raped eventually and need an abortion ... 5 year old girls don't need abortions, 90 year old women don't need abortions ... this whole "issue" is about the hard-line repubs who want to put women in their place. What's next? women prohibited from driving?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

You liberals have taken the Representatives words out of context and he stated as much but you won't accept that! I'm very disappointed in so-called liberals because of the amount of name-calling, anti-religious bigotry, and refusal to discuss the facts. All of us know that an abortion, the dismemberment of a human child in the womb, will never make a rape go away, get a little better, or become less painful. More violence will only make matters worse for all involved. Trying to cast Brownback as anti-women's rights is just another ploy by the left because they are unhappy that some of there wacko left wing pro-abortion anti-women agenda is itself being repealed!

gatekeeper 3 years, 6 months ago

Get out of other people's wombs? It's none of your business. I'm sure your views come from your religious beliefs and if so, follow what the Bible says. God will judge, not you.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

I guess you need to put that verse in context, it does not mean that we are not to make judgments about social issues, it does not mean that we are not to form opinions, and it does not mean that we are to just sit back and let the left make all of the decisions on these matters.

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Seems pretty clear to me.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

Does not mean that Christians are not to have views on moral issues of the day and express their opinions upon those issues. We are called in the Bible to be salt and light to a dark world. That is why we stand up for the weak and defenseless--like the unborn--to call out the wickedness of society and urge repentance and faith.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 6 months ago

"I'm very disappointed in so-called liberals because of the amount of name-calling, anti-religious bigotry, and refusal to discuss the facts."

The third comment to this article was a conservative who: Called NOW the "National Organization of Witches" Accused women of asking for special rights * Didn't even mention the point of the article (allegations of government interference with free speech)

Liberals have no monopoly on incivility.

Bob_Loblaw 3 years, 6 months ago

Actually, Brownback is doing all of this so he can claim jus primae noctis.

We actually aren't that far from slipping back into the Middle Ages in Kansas at the rate we are going....

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

What a crazy statement... we are certainly not going back to the "middle ages"! What we are doing is stepping back from the extreme liberalism of the late-sixties early seventies generation. We have allowed "free-love" and not responsibility to run its course and we are realizing that we should turn back to God and traditional morality. The entire liberal agenda of the last generation is being assaulted by those who believe much of it was misguided and we are simply correcting the course. Stand back and watch next session as your worst nightmare continues!

Bob_Loblaw 3 years, 6 months ago

Middle/Dark Ages characteristics.... - Decentralized, rural, parochial - Rule by the Powerful while others look only to survive - No sense of history or progress - Fatalism prevails - Rule through fear and superstition - Very little intellectual pursuit - Very little artistic endeavors

You're right....my bad....none of these even come close to the path we are headed on

Bob_Loblaw 3 years, 6 months ago

"....Brownback is doing all of this so he can claim jus primae noctis..."

I can't believe anyone thought I was serious about this part......the rest...yes....to a degree (in theory).

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 6 months ago

Just to be clear -- the "liberal agenda" to which KJH refers was implemented by The Greatest Generation, the generation that fought in WWII and survived the Great Depression.

And KJH hates that generation. Hates them to their core.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

You are wrong it was not the "greatest generation" that decided to gut traditional morality and social institutions. In fact, it was the "Bill Clinton" generation that decided they would take that route. In addition, you are wrong about me hating anyone, in fact, I admire even my most ardent ideological opponents in some areas. I hate no one but argue that conservatism is helping us to reaffirm the traditional morality and values of hard work, honesty, and a strong religious faith of the greatest generation.

tomatogrower 3 years, 6 months ago

You need to read your history books and how old feminists are. And how long this "liberal agenda" has been around. In the sixties, Clinton's generation were school children. Are you saying that they had that much influence?

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

So much for the "will of the people".

Large minorities are Americans too, you know.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

My expectations are very low for the whining feminist movement. But the answer is NO you may not bring the dirty tires into the capitol building and you may not burn them outside either. P.S. you also may not burn you bra's

deec 3 years, 6 months ago

Since flags are okay to burn, I think we can go ahead and assume underwear burning is legal, too. What a silly post.

Keith 3 years, 6 months ago

Unintentionally funniest post of the day.

deec 3 years, 6 months ago

So many replies come to mind. Yeah, but let me get them off first. Okay, but you'll need a bonfire permit. No, they're flame retardant. But I only use those when posting here. No. I just got back from the doctor for that burning sensation.

gatekeeper 3 years, 6 months ago

If you're so sick of women actually having rights and speaking their minds, then I think it's time you found a new country to live in.

I would love to know how many unwanted children you are now raising that you either foster or adopted? What are you doing to make sure there are homes for unwanted children? Maybe every woman in KS that wants an abortion should have the kids and sign them over to you. You are obviously so much better than everyone else, care much more and know exactly what to do. How many bedrooms do you have? Hope you have some great health insurance to pay for all those babies.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 6 months ago

Finding a new country in which to live that isn't third world (at best) is going to be difficult. It's a bit telling that countries as various and diverse as Britain, the Irish Republic, India, Israel and even Pakistan (!) have all had women at one time or another as their premier, president, prime minister or other head of state. Although this doesn't necessarily guarantee that women are equal it's an accomplishment that, to date, the US cannot even boast.

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

Careful.

You're revealing a bit too much about yourself here, and it's not attractive, or very Christian either.

Honkeycat 3 years, 6 months ago

Geesh, someone needs to put down the crack pipe...

jhawkinsf 3 years, 6 months ago

NOW has been criticized in the past for not coming to Palin's defense. Has their policy changed?

tomatogrower 3 years, 6 months ago

They came to Palin's defense, but she rejected them. She's not a feminist, remember? Of course, she would be cooking and cleaning for her hubby, if it wasn't for NOW. But she rewrites history a lot, so she can ignore it.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

The reality is that NOW represents very few women. It is only representative of the most extreme elements of feminism that are in opposition to traditional morality and family values.

kernal 3 years, 6 months ago

kjh, NOW does represent all women, but not all women support NOW. I think you have a misconception about NOW, or it just scare the bejeezus out of you. It is not against morality and family values. That's your outdated preception.

Wondering what your idea of "traditional family values" is.

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

kjh, you chastise "liberals" for name calling, then back it up with calling people "wacko left wing pro-abortion anti women". Wow. That is just funny. Also, anyone who doesn't agree with you must be a "liberal." You don't quite get irony, do you?

You do know you are pro rapist, don't you? You prefer the rights of rapists over the rights of women. You are in full support of wanting rapists to be allowed to select the mothers of their children. If you had things your way, that is what would happen. You are pro rapist.

People like you give conservatives a bad reputation. Oh, and once again since you don't appear to be catching on, they aren't children until they are born.

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

I appreciate your views on this. From your posts, I know that you are a fan of words and you recognize probably more than about any here that words actually do have meanings. You also must realize that calling something one thing when it is another is a form of deception.

I personally find others using the term "children" or "child" when discussing abortions to be off-putting. This is especially true when used in attempts to shock readers with descriptions of the procedures of abortions and particularly the rare late-term abortions, without a shred of context of the circumstances that might lead to someone seeking such procedures. If using the terms to describe the abortion, then use the proper term of what is being aborted. In other words, when you actually do consider the real-life context in which a women might have abortions, they simply don't abort "children."

Further, KJH's statements that someone raped should basically just get over it already and not be allowed even the option of an abortion I find to be so utterly repugnant that I want to slap my computer in the hopes that the she will feel it. Likewise with being called "pro-abortion" because I believe a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body. That is truly off-putting. Respect for how someone feels and might receive words directed at them is a two-way street.

And, for what it is worth, I'm pretty sure I've never used the terms "zygote" or postpartum-"child." Those aren't words or terms I use in conversation, so I wouldn't use them here.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

oh boy--now i'm accused of being pro-rapist--I guess you didn't hear me earlier when I said that I'm against violence. Violence begats violence and that is why I made the point that killing a baby will not make a rape victim any "better". The rape will not go away, become a little better, or in anyway go away just because a childs skull is crushed and her little unborn body is dismembered. So there you have it I'm going on the record to say i'm opposed to rape contrary to the earlier post.

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

Yes, but you support forcing a woman to have a child of rape, regardless of her feelings on the matter.

And, regardless of the almost certain fact that doing that will make the victim of rape feel worse and suffer more over time.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

I guess an act of violence is going to make the rape victim "feel" better and that makes the child dismemberment o k with you?

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

Again, it's a developing fetus, not a child.

And, unless you've been raped and gotten pregnant, I don't think you have much credibility in this area.

I haven't either, but I wouldn't presume to force a woman who had been to carry the fetus to term and give birth.

It's clearly a continuation of the rape, and can only make it worse for her.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

An abortion will only make the woman feel worse over time when she continues to realize that she has killed her baby!

beatrice 3 years, 6 months ago

kjh, it is really quite simple. You support rapists being able to choose the mothers of their children. You might not care for the act, but you are all in favor of the outcome. That makes you in favor of a pro-rapist agenda, and that makes you pro-rapist. Congratulations.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

Listen when bad things happen sometimes we have to deal with those circumstances... it does not mean and cannot possibly be twisted around by logic to infer that any person who opposes the dismemberment of a human child in the womb is somehow in favor of rape. In fact, my guess is that pro-life citizens are at least as opposed to rape as pro-choice or (pro-abortion) citizens. Bringing accusations like this is only a smokescreen for the fact that you support allowing the brutal killing of these little babes.

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

Are you a woman?

If not, then your attitude is questionable, since you will never have to deal with the situation you describe.

Give me an example of an analogous situation for you.

Scott Morgan 3 years, 6 months ago

Re: Palin

Now has proved the true intent. Not women, but politics.

verity 3 years, 6 months ago

Why would NOW support anyone whose beliefs are the complete opposite of what they believe in? The argument that they should do so because that person is a woman is just stupid and those making it know that.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 6 months ago

National Organization of (some) Women? :-)

verity 3 years, 6 months ago

Thanks for the link. NOW is supportive of women's rights, but I think jhawkinsf knows that, he/she just thinks they can make a point against NOW and nobody will notice that it doesn't fly.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 6 months ago

Not true. I wonder if NOW is supposed to represent all women or only women who agree with their position. I wonder the same about any advocacy group such as NAACP, La Raza, etc. Do they support all members of their group, or only those that tow the party line? My first comment about this was in response to Paladkik's comment about NOW supporting all women and I simply stated that they had been criticized in the past for not standing up for women who had different ideas than those espoused by NOW. Quite frankly, I still don't know if NOW stands up for all women or not, or even if that's their goal.

tomatogrower 3 years, 6 months ago

Apparently you don't read much. Try going to the link I sent you. If you are against women's rights, just say so.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 6 months ago

Be nice, "apparently you don't read much".
I saw the link and it was in reference to Letterman's joke about the sex life of Palin's teenage daughter. It had nothing to do with whether or not NOW stands up for women like Palin who disagree with NOW.
And I'm certainly not against women's rights. But does women's right mean towing a party line? I don't believe that, do you?

tomatogrower 3 years, 6 months ago

"NOW Criticizes Letterman on Palin Crack" That is the title of the article in the link. NOW defended Palin. Will they support Palin for President? No, because Palin is against women's rights, and she doesn't want their support. Click on the following link. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/24/im-through-palin-says/

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

It's an interesting question.

Clearly, organizations like NOW have certain points of view - for example, they may believe in and support equal pay for equal work.

If a woman believes that she doesn't deserve as much pay for the same work as a man, should NOW support her?

And, what would that mean?

Traditional ideas of female subservience are clearly not what NOW is all about, so women who believe in traditionally submissive roles are also not likely to find NOW very interested in them.

That said, I do think that the ideals of feminism should include/support the ability to make decisions for oneself, even if those wind up being traditional - eg. stay at home mom.

tomatogrower 3 years, 6 months ago

You obviously know nothing about NOW or feminism. Choice is what it is all about. I know you may be quite young, but women had few choices 50 years ago. They had no choice. NOW and feminist support choice for women and men. Men should have a choice to be a stay at home parent as well. The idea is all about choice, and the conservatives don't believe in choice. They believe that their way is the right way for everyone. I do have a problem with a woman who thinks she should get paid less than a man doing the same job, I would suggest a shrink. But I have no problem with a conservative Christian woman being a housewife, and refusing to get an abortion if she would get raped. But she and you have no right to make those decisions for me or anyone else.

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

Having been raised by an avid "first wave" feminist, I think I know a little bit about it.

I'm 49, so I'm not "quite young" either.

Absolutely agree about men being able to stay home and raise children.

Don't know why you think I'm some sort of right-wing Christian - a quick look at some of my posts will show that's not true.

As I said, I think the ideal should be the freedom and ability to make individual choices.

But, as with other movements, feminism certainly had it's share of ideology and intolerance - perhaps that was before your time.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 6 months ago

Just to clarify, I don't think anyone believes in unequal pay for equal work. That's absurd. But does NOW come to the defense of women who hold a position that closely resembles their own. And do they not come to the defense of women who hold different positions. Hence, my comment: National Organization of (some) Women. But let me give you a different scenario. A man, a CEO of a very powerful company and a strong supporter of women's rights is caught in a scandal where he was fooling around with a young secretary. A classic case of sexual harassment given the disparity of their positions of power. Who would NOW support? The CEO (even if he supports women's rights) or the young secretary (the victim of the sexual harassment)?

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

Yes.

It's much more likely that someone would disagree that the jobs are "equal", or not want to fight about it, etc.

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

"second wave"

American feminism in the 60's.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

But that woman's insurance premiums or taxes should not be used to pay for those abortions.

coloradoan 3 years, 6 months ago

OK, it's Jeopardy time (yes, it's copyrighted) - for 400 points: the Phelps, NOW, and union members in the Kansas legislature balcony.

Answer (in the form of a question): which group is protected by the First Amendment and which two aren't?

coloradoan 3 years, 6 months ago

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that this is from the perspective of the Republicans as to who is and who is not protected.

Soapbox 3 years, 6 months ago

N.O.W.............Nutty Organization for Women................enough said.............these are people who I agree with but their tactics and PR are so bad that I can not support them.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

erradic and bullish behavior...sounds like a convention of NOW...

ferrislives 3 years, 6 months ago

So lets sum it up:

kansanjayhawk believes that a 10 year old girl who is repeatedly raped by her father should be forced to carry his child. kansanjayhawk believes that a 20 year old college student who is raped by a serial rapist should be forced to carry his child. kansanjayhawk believes that a 30 year old mother who is raped by a serial rapist should be forced to carry his child.

Yup, small government at work kansanjayhawk. You my friend are a hypocrite if you call yourself a conservative. I'm all for restricting abortions in some cases, but forcing young girls and women to carry a pregnancy that's the result of incest or rape reminds me of the Taliban. Instead of the GOP, we should refer to you and other like-minded non-conservatives as the GBP: (Grand Babysitter Party).

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

You are missing the point--the rape will not go away by committing another act of violence-- the rape will not be made better by crushing the skull of a little unborn baby-- violence begats violence and the woman should not be forced to live with another act of violence to live down for the rest of her life. It is not a matter of forcing anyone but encouraging everyone to act morally! However, we should never be forced to pay for such thing with our insurance premiums or our tax monies.

jafs 3 years, 6 months ago

You are almost certainly wrong on this one.

Being able to choose for herself whether or not she carries the fetus to term gives a woman power over her own body, power that was taken away by the rape.

That is undoubtedly something that goes in the direction of healing.

And, you absolutely want to force women - you want abortion to be illegal.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

Violence begats violence and rape will not be made better by destroying the fetus in the womb by another act of violence. This is not a choice that should be available to anyone to kill a child in the womb.

ferrislives 3 years, 6 months ago

Are you ok with paying insurance premiums on Viagra then?

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 6 months ago

KJH's confusion is almost unprecedented.

Just to be clear -- the "liberal agenda" to which KJH refers was implemented by The Greatest Generation, the generation that fought in WWII and survived the Great Depression.

The "Bill Clinton" generation, the one KJH wants to lay the blame on, did not assume political power until the 1990's.

All of the "liberal" programs KJH hates so much were passed by veterans of WWII and by survivors of the Great Depression and signed into law by Presidents of that same generation. They also created civil rights, equal opportunity, etc.

Even Roe vs. Wade is a product of The Greatest Generation.

The Greatest Generation created "liberal" America.

tomatogrower 3 years, 6 months ago

Oh, Bob, you're just confusing them with facts again.

pace 3 years, 6 months ago

My guess is ol Sam is chuckling how his boys gave the women trouble, no apology will occur. The just think it is another way to slap a women, The radical conservatives aren't woman friendly, they are out to smack them back.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

No evidence to accuse Sam of anything here...

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

oh--I guess you are a therapist now? The only reason I'm using the graphic language is actually to get some of you liberals to start thinking about the things you defend

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

such colorful language making personal attacks rather than addressing real issues. The fact is that unless people understand what some of these words like "choice" are being used to defend they will not understand the importance of the issue. I don't get off on it I just understand that we must educate people about the horrors or abortion for some of them to understand. Maybe your pipes need to be examined on this matter?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

He already said his remarks were misconstrued--think you are jumping the gun in passing judgment upon him. Maybe he's a great guy trying to defend unborn children and he cares deeply about families? Think about it liberals---

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 6 months ago

Name calling lowers your effectiveness as a debater.

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