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Archive for Friday, February 19, 2010

Gender identity policy fails to win panel’s endorsement

In 4-3 vote, committee supports earlier decision

About 100 people showed up at city hall Thursday to voice their opinions regarding a change to categories for a city policy. About 40 people spoke during the meeting, which ended with a vote to not add the category of gender expression to the anti-discrimination policy.

February 19, 2010

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About the proposal

• The Nov. 18 vote to recommend not making a change to the existing anti-discrimination policy was 6-3.

• During Thursday’s meeting, Commissioners Scott Criqui proposed and Laura Diaz Moore seconded a motion to reconsider the November vote. That motion was defeated 4-3. Criqui, Diaz Moore and Lori Tapahonso voted for the motion, while Jason Barnhill, James Dunn, Kevin Johnson and Kirsten Krug voted against.

• The commission then voted 4-3 to approve the Nov. 18 proposal. Barnhill, Dunn, Johnson and Krug voted for approval.

• Prior to Thursday’s meeting, Commissioners Ernesto Hodison and Sue Leonard resigned, according to Toni Wheeler, city legal director.

After hearing nearly two hours of public comment Thursday, the city’s Human Relations Commission voted against adding gender identity to the city’s anti-discrimination policy.

The City Commission will consider the recommendation at a future meeting.

Thursday’s decision came after nearly a year of debate.

About 100 people attended and more than 40 people spoke, including members of the transgender community and representatives from area churches.

Proponents of a change to the current policy cited instances in Lawrence during which transgender people have faced discrimination in housing and employment.

Opponents countered with arguments that adding protections for gender identity was not necessary and opened the city and area businesses to lawsuits. Several people also expressed concern that a change to the policy could endanger women and children by allowing potential sexual predators — dressing as women — to use female restrooms.

Lori Tapahonso, chairman of the commission, said she was pleased with the high turnout.

“It shows that we have a very healthy community who is willing to engage in civil dialogue,” she said. “Regardless of what side of the issue you were on, we had people who were coming to the table offering their opinions.”

Last May, city commissioners asked the Human Relations Commission for a recommendation on the anti-discrimination policy after the Kansas Equality Coalition proposed including gender identity in the policy.

Comments

mr_right_wing 4 years, 1 month ago

It takes a very close-minded and intolerant society to dictate what or who you you can and cannot love; age restrictions and only permitting one marriage at a time. I've spoken of inter-species marriage; most likely at some point we will also need to address those who should have the freedom to marry plant life (as long as there is 'life', there can--and should be open love). I have no doubt we already have a significant number who would welcome marriage to trees. Sadly, at this point in time they would most likely face great ridicule. That is to our shame as a backwards society.

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witchfindergeneral 4 years, 1 month ago

mr_right_wing (anonymous) says...

""“Brandon, God made you a boy for a special reason,” [his mother] told him before they said prayers one night when he was 5, the first part of a speech she’d prepared. But he cut her off: “God made a mistake,” he said."

This is a clear case of child abuse."

I agree. Your ridiculous hypothetical possibilities aside (paranoid much?), it is clear from the article that Brandon, like so many children, endured minor psychological abuse from his fundamentalist mother (who lives "in [a] no-stoplight town, where Confederate flags line the main street"--sounds like a tolerant place!). This single statement--"God made a mistake"--likely filled his mother with religious terror--does she believe her innocent child or her infallible God? Thankfully, she came to believe the former, despite her theological hangups.

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 1 month ago

Mr. Right wing,

you are correct.

After 40 some odd years, I can not longer tolerate nor have any patiences for bigots.

I find them to be in the same class as rapist, nazis and child molesters.

They devalue America and are traitors to all humanity and deserve neither patience nor respect nor the slightest amount of tolerance.

I believe bigots should have to contstantly fight to present their view and hopefully will never gain another inch of ground again.

Clear enough?

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porch_person 4 years, 1 month ago

OldEnufToBeYourDad,

I know of one person who works at KU who has undergone "the operation". She worked for KU as a man and as a woman. I could not tell until I was told. She is a very valued member of the staff at KU and I wish I was as intelligent as she is.

I know that the DSM-IV considers sexual identity disorder as a disorder but true transgender is extremely rare. I do believe that it has a genetic component in it. There are lots of phenotypes that we haven't discovered the genetic mechanism for that we inevitably will. Homosexuals and transgenders go through too much pain for "being different" for it to be a conscious choice.

Human sexual orientation, sexual identity orientation, and transvestite-ism are three different things. The degree to which one is "straight" and "gay" is a spectrum, not an "on / off" switch.

My curiosity is towards determining not that transgender person are being discriminated against but if we have so many transgendered people in Lawrence that the City Council felt it necessary to work for a year on a law prohibiting discrimination. That's what I'm curious about. That and seeing how many people equate transgender with homosexuality or transvestite behaviour.

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sunny 4 years, 1 month ago

'transgender' = 'crossdresser' You cross dressers need some mental help!

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Randall Barnes 4 years, 1 month ago

a man is a man and a woman is a woman so get real and accept who you are. mind over matter you are not a woman in a mans body that is stupid go get some help for your ADDHD.

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notajayhawk 4 years, 1 month ago

ivalueamerica (anonymous) says...

"It seems you think that of others in society have persona difficulties with issues such as they, they should decide what is best for the other person."

Nobody decided they should be born a male or a female. Nobody decided the genetics. The question remains of, when a person's internal perceptions of who they are differ from the objective reality, which one is 'wrong' - the perception or the reality?

"Generally, the people who have had their bodies altered to look more like animals do so without medical diagnosis, years of therapy and all the pre-requisits one must go through for gender reassignment surgery, so there is no comparison to be had."

First off, the comparison is made regarding the person's reasons for choosing the surgery, not the steps they have to take to obtain it. Second, those prerequisites you mentioned are not mandated by law nor are they universal. Third, you might ask yourself why those obstacles exist for gender reassignment surgery but not for altering your face to look like a cheetah.

But mostly, what "medical diagnosis" are you referring to? There isn't a blood test, CAT or PET scan, or exploratory surgery that a physician can perform to look inside and say 'Yep, that's a woman's brain in that man's body'.

You seem to want it both ways. You say that the people seeking such reassignment have a legitimate psychological reason, i.e. that psychologically they are not the gender of the body they live in. But in psychology, we generally consider the perception to be at fault when it differs from reality.

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mr_right_wing 4 years, 1 month ago

ivalueamerica, I think you may be guilty of being intolerant, close-minded and short-sighted. I celebrate your personal right to marry whoever or whatever you want at whatever age(s) and however many times you wish to. You might want to check into some sensitivity training. Love should under no circumstances ever be limited or 'controlled' by anyone.

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 1 month ago

Mr. Right Wing,

It seems you think that of others in society have persona difficulties with issues such as they, they should decide what is best for the other person. If bigots are uncomfortable with people with gender identity issues, then the person with the issue should do what is most comfortable for those bigots.

You want special privelage for bigots to determine what is best in life for those with the disorder, and not what is best personally for the person. That is against humanity.

Generally, the people who have had their bodies altered to look more like animals do so without medical diagnosis, years of therapy and all the pre-requisits one must go through for gender reassignment surgery, so there is no comparison to be had. However, at the end of the day it is not your body, not your life and none of your gosh darnded business. If they do that, yes, others will be cruel based on lack of understanding, fear and ignorance just like some people who are transgendered will suffer. They will be judged by how you feel about who they are, and not really on the quality of their character. That is your failure, not theres, though I agree a drastic change like that is always better suited to complete and well studied medical support.

The way I was raised, I do not decide if someone is good or bad if they are LGBT, Black, have a disability, speak with a southern draw. My family worked hard to teach me the values of King, you judge a person by the quality of their character.

Those that do not are the failures, not the people they choose to judge.

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JKBagby 4 years, 1 month ago

I just love your username, Bookemdano. That is Awesome!

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tange 4 years, 1 month ago

Fundamentally, to discriminate means to be able to tell the difference. Is the argument that we need protections for those who can't?

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bookemdano 4 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, we should leave science up to laypeople like mr_right_wing and his slippery slope fallacies. After all, the scientific and medically trained experts are just pawns in the radical homosexual agenda!

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gccs14r 4 years, 1 month ago

It's sad how many people think there is no gray in life. "Oh, this person has a y chromosome, so this person is male." Turns out it's more complicated, as some have mentioned above. Among other things, certain hormones must be present in certain amounts at certain times for development to proceed normally. If any part of that goes awry, the end result can be sexual ambiguity either mentally, physically, or both. This completely skips over gross chromosomal problems, such as xxy.

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mr_right_wing 4 years, 1 month ago

"“Brandon, God made you a boy for a special reason,” [his mother] told him before they said prayers one night when he was 5, the first part of a speech she’d prepared. But he cut her off: “God made a mistake,” he said."

This is a clear case of child abuse. Brandon (or perhaps to be more sensitive = Brenda) should be allowed at any age to medically explore changing 'its' gender. Brandon/Brenda is one of the lucky ones though. Those who suffer 'species confusion' have no medical hope at this point. We need to put money into research on changing or altering someone who doesn't feel comfortable being a human being into making them the species of their choice. Also, if Brandon/Brenda truly loves 'its' pet snake...who are we as a society to stop Brandon/Brenda from marrying said snake, regardless if its/their ages. When Brandon becomes Brenda and one day decides she wants to marry a fellow human being female, (which would mean she'd be married to another woman as well as a pet snake.) we need to be tolerant and embrace this new kind of love. We have no place to limit who or what a person marries, ages or number of mates they are allowed to love and marry.

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notajayhawk 4 years, 1 month ago

ivalueamerica (anonymous) says...

"They say the illness is based on being foced to live a life that does not match your identity ... "

To an extent, you're correct in saying the basis for labeling it as a disorder is the discordance that arises from a person's identity not matching the reality. But it's not reality's fault. Reality is not forced on anyone - reality exists, pretty much by definition. In other words, the problem isn't whether someone was born with a y chromosome, but whether they think they should have been.

I just scanned the comments above - looks like someone already mentioned psychosis. If someone really believes they're the president of the United States, should we give them the launch codes?

"... the cure it gender reassignment surgery."

While this may reduce or alleviate the emotional distress, your 'cure' involves altering the reality. I'm not necessarily saying there's anything wrong with that approach, but should we use it in all cases where someone's internal reality differs from that of the actual world?

I'm curious as to how you feel about people who have themselves surgically altered to resemble animals; first, do you really think their true identity is the animal they attempt to portray, and second, should the rest of us treat them as animals?

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witchfindergeneral 4 years, 1 month ago

vanguard3 says... "If homosexuality were quote, unquote normal, how would the species survive to this day to have this discussion?"

Simple, vanguard--homosexuality is natural (not a conscious choice), but not necessarily common--or "normal"--compared with the majority of the species. In ancient societies, as with our modern society, homosexuality existed as minority group. It's unfortunate that the modern (Abrahamic) world has attached so much negativity to a historically accepted minority.

I sincerely hope the Human Relations Committee will reconsider this issue in the near future. To those of you who think that gender expression is a choice or a perversion, consider this article (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/transgender-children) and ask yourself how/why a 5 year old, prepubescent child would choose to live life as girl instead of a boy.

A telling quote from the article:

"“Brandon, God made you a boy for a special reason,” [his mother] told him before they said prayers one night when he was 5, the first part of a speech she’d prepared. But he cut her off: “God made a mistake,” he said."

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vanguard3 4 years, 1 month ago

If, in fact, this alleged way-common ancient gay culture has existed for so long, how is it that procreation, the very thing that has provided for the existence of the current homosexual, has endured for the continuation of the species? Do heteros exist simply for the purpose of creating more gays?

If homosexuality were quote, unquote normal, how would the species survive to this day to have this discussion?

Better yet, is the homosexual existence predicated simply upon the premise that ejaculation for its sake, for individual pleasure, more important than the natural procreation of a species?

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blue73harley 4 years, 1 month ago

InVinoVeritas (anonymous) says... Lawrence, a completely different kind of stupid than Topeka

Quote of the day!!!

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JKBagby 4 years, 1 month ago

The term Katoey has been applied for thousands of years, I believe, to a man with a woman's spirit. Southeast Asia. Which is interesting that some cultures understand these kinds of things and so there is no need for new rules. I think we are so young and silly in comparison to some cultures. Weird to think the almighty west has some things to learn from third wolrd cultures.

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vanguard3 4 years, 1 month ago

OldEnuf,

You bring up a good point. It seems that, in some, if not many, there is a radical, even militant desire to shove something down other people's throats (thank you, no) as far as an open acceptance goes, but all the while these folks claim to want to live in peace as they see fit. Diametrically opposing desires, befit of a confused individual. My experience, based on the behavior of others, but it seems that there is a great deal of going out of one's way to draw attention to one's self, a narcissistic behavior.

How 'bout you live the life that you want behind closed bedroom doors, but don't try to make me a willing party to it? I don't go around advertising my sexual orientation on a daily, even hourly basis, so why should you?

My orientation is not the sole, or multiple thrust of my life. It's simply one small sliver of the overall person that I am, a private one at that. I'm not the one who has a hang-up about anyone's orientation. I'd rather not know, whether it's homo or hetero. It has no bearing on my public persona.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 1 month ago

Some of those which the left's ideologies closely follow, bless their souls, may not be be in agreement on this particular subject.......Sanger, Hitler, Geobbels, Mengele, Marx, Trotsky.

May God bless.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 4 years, 1 month ago

"There is no gay agenda."

Only those who are part of an agenda would post that. I'm a Christian, and let me tell you: there are some conservative Christians who have huge political agendas. I'll admit it. There's a white male agenda. A slew of minority agendas. A Muslim agenda... Why deny it?

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vanguard3 4 years, 1 month ago

Have you ever seen an individual who appears to have run out of money half way through the procedure? I did, and it's a little mind-boggling to see the half and half effect.

Not to confuse the issue any further, but are there any people out there who have decided that they're half and half or some other ratio of man and woman? The person I spoke to was man in dress and voice, yet woman in hair, jewelry and make-up. Not knowing the name of this person, a vendor who had asked me if I was interested in a product, I did not know which title I should use to respond. I handled it well. Just said no thanks and moved on, but was wondering, is there a prescribed protocol for this sort of thing?

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 4 years, 1 month ago

"Funny how many of your arguments mimmick almost word for word the white supremcists movements arguments on the same topic."

Quote them. I think that sounded good in your mind, so you posted it.

My mother has been featured in books and documentaries for her sacrifices in civil rights. I'm NO bigot. Try that somewhere else.

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mr_right_wing 4 years, 1 month ago

It is just incredible how backwards this city and state are. We need to get caught up....take care of gender identity, because the next roadblock is 'species identity'. There are some out there who believe they should have been born a cat, or dog (and a few 'evolutionists' who like the idea of going back to a monkey.) There are also those who are 'species confident' but they feel their rights are being infringed on because we don't recognize a marriage between species. A person should have the right to marry their cat(s), or dog(s) (any animals). That brings up another point; what right do we have as a society to limit the number and type of marriages? If a man, who wants to be a woman wants to marry another boy (who is underage) and both marry all of their pets, we have absolutely no right to stand in their way!!

Quit oppressing the gender and species confused. Let love flourish between those of all ages. Allow inter-species (and multiple) marriages. Finance research for species re-assignment therapy!!

It's a brave new world folks, welcome aboard!

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oliveoyl 4 years, 1 month ago

lindsey- you are so misguided. I'm confused by your posts. You are saying that males will pretend to be a transgendered to access the women's bathroom to take advantage of little girls and thats apart of the radical homosexual movement? If a male is homosexual and a pedophile why would they want to take advantage of little girls? This makes no sense. You forget that the majority of child molesters and pedophiles are self described heterosexual white males.
There is no gay agenda. There will always be one person who "abuses the system" but it's up to you to be able to distinguish. I think the Phelps clan are terrible people who use their interpretations to spread hate but I don't generalize all Christians to be terrible just b/c one family is misguided. If the gay agenda were true there would be gay pamplets and groups on Mass on Thursday nights instead of Heritage Baptist Church pushing their agenda.

Justify it how you want...it's still called bigotry.

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Marcia Epstein 4 years, 1 month ago

My name is Marcia Epstein. I tried to change my username or at least get my name displayed and I failed. However, I do not want to post in anonymity.

I want my community, Lawrence, Kansas to be a caring community where we respect all people. I believe we need to add gender identity along with "race, sex, religion, color, national origin, age, ancestry, familial status, sexual orientation, or disability" as currently included in the "Declaration of Policy" of the "Code of the City of Lawrence, Kansas, Chapter X. Human Relations, Article 1. Human Relations." That policy does not encourage violence or abusive acts by people in designated groups. The policy helps create a community atmosphere where violence and abuse are not tolerated.

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lawrenceRezident 4 years, 1 month ago

Get counseling and save for an operation. Sorry you have problems but so do I

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 1 month ago

Lindsy Doyle and oldenuf,

Funny how many of your arguments mimmick almost word for word the white supremcists movements arguments on the same topic.

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smokencurt 4 years, 1 month ago

I worked for almost ten years in mental health. One of my patents could fly at one time but had forgot how. He had a gravity-identifing problem. The stupid bigots who posed as doctors just gave him drugs instead of surgery. I realy do not know what the answer is, but I suspect that most of you don't know eather. See/talk with everyone next week, great descusion.

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lindseydoyle 4 years, 1 month ago

Google "fisting" for a lot more information about what is going on in schools.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 4 years, 1 month ago

"Schizophrenics often have breaks with reality; we treat them rather than alter reality to fit their incorrect perception of it. Similarly, we should treat transgender persons rather than alter reality to fit their incorrect perception of their gender. I sympathize with people's attempts to define and distinguish themselves, but denying reality and creating a confusing mess is not the way to do it."

Well put. I wish I had written that.

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SnakeFist 4 years, 1 month ago

bookemdano: No, see my earlier post: homosexuality is not a psychological problem, its just a subjective preference. Intersex is also not a psychological problem, its a cosmetic problem. But transgender, i.e., "self-identifying" as the opposite gender, is a psychological problem. Each of us has a gender, we do not "identify" or pick a gender. Schizophrenics often have breaks with reality; we treat them rather than alter reality to fit their incorrect perception of it. Similarly, we should treat transgender persons rather than alter reality to fit their incorrect perception of their gender.

I sympathize with people's attempts to define and distinguish themselves, but denying reality and creating a confusing mess is not the way to do it.

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lindseydoyle 4 years, 1 month ago

greenlid79 " but who REALLY wants to "convert" our children to homosexuality. Paranoia."

I think I answered that. Kevin Singer is Obama's "safe schools czar." When he was a leader in the radical homosexual movement he advocated using the school safety issue as a means of indoctrinating young children into homosexuality. He is just one of very many within the movement. A poster seen at one school gathering in California stated "How do you know you don't like it if you haven't tried it?" As far as the issue of gender confusion goes, consider this: All a pedophile would have to do would be to pretend that he was gender-confused and be able to hang out in the womens room. These guys are experts at talking little girls into doing things they don't want to do. This issue is really about the radical homosexual movement though, just using the unfortunate but very rare gender confused towards their own ends.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 4 years, 1 month ago

"Decades of research show that to be true."

I challenge you to provide empirical proof. The APA said for decades that the roots of homosexuality "are believed" to have a genetic root. In 2009, the APA published the truth: after decades of stating and restating that homosexuality was "probably" genetic in nature, NO PROOF has been found in the genetic code. Not one scientific study in a lab setting has produced a smoking gun for a gay gene. That's not something I made up, that's the APA's own admission.

"They say the illness is based on being foced to live a life that does not match your identity, the cure it gender reassignment surgery."

Why is surgery the "cure"? How many other DSM Disorders are cured via mutilation? I can't think of one, and I'm a licensed clinician (surprise!). Every other "cure" for a psychological disorder is a cure above the neck. Your statement demonstrates how far down the tubes we've gone. We'd rather do extreme surgeries than heal hearts and minds. Why is it so hard to see how illogical that is? Because in a world where sexual morality is "bad", the answer is to depathologize everything sexual. Mark my words: we will reverse this trend, or NAMBLA will someday sue the APA for pathologizing pedophilia... and they'll win.

If I told you I identified myself as a bird and wanted my arms surgically altered to look like wings, would you say that was an acceptable "treatment", or would you say "that guy needs to change his thinking"?

What I have for these people is NOT bigotry. How do I know that? Because what I feel for them is empathy. No racist ever felt empathy for the man he was lynching. I don't see them as needing "protections" as much as I see them needing "healing". They need help and healing from messages such as yours that say "you were born with a flawed sense of who you are, so we'll just turn that penis inside out and you'll be cured". How bizarre!

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Azure_Attitude 4 years, 1 month ago

What you said, Olympics! Sexual predators present themselves to society as straight males! Transgendered people are not a danger to women and children!

Speaking of Olympics, I felt like a champion on my way to work doing the 23rd Street Slalom a'dodging those potholes! Elvis H. Presley, City of Lawrence!! Do something about that!! These things are getting big enough to eat my Honda! Freakin' car eating potholes!

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oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

Why can't Lawrence city commisson have some fun? Stu comes , Oregon gets our Mayor. Funhouser comes, KC gets Corliss. Just for one month, please. It would be like a reality show.

Funk and Stu.

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bookemdano 4 years, 1 month ago

@Snakefist, you are wrong. Chromosomes are the biggest factor in the determination of gender identity but there are plenty of other factors at play.

You could say that your chromosomal makeup is what initiates the various processes during fetal development that "assign" gender to a fetus, but there is no guarantee that those processes (both physical and in the brain) will complete successfully. Intersex and transgendered people are living proof of that!

You conclusion is that person needs psychological treatment? Is that sort of like how gays can be turned straight by psychology? Give me a break.

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smokencurt 4 years, 1 month ago

This is realy getting off the original story but is one of the best set of comments I have seen and shows what I I was trying to say. There is a lot that needs to be talked about. Satirical... you make a good point about duty owed but still too often I feel that rights are taken away from others even if not intended, it can be a slippery slope. A couple of observations if I may: Mental health wise. At one time all problems were thought to be from social problems but now they have found that it is more often chemical/hormonal etc. That being said I don't think it matters if a homosexural or a transgender has a mental problem. What does matter is that like everyone else they need understanding, respect and their rights. But again lets consider ALL the effects, clear up truth from falsehood, understand everyones veiw point. To those of Greenlid 79's group.. I don't know just how real Linsey may be, but every group has a radical elemant that attaches its self to it and there is something to what Linsey says and should be noted. Hopefuly Linsey is wrong in their strength.

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oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

Where is Stu Rasmussen when he/she/it is needed? Gosh, Lawrence is pretty boring when one thinks about it. They don't even have an interesting commission nor city manager and staff.

Stu has the calzones and also is able to attract business to his "town".

Could Lawrence do a thing like sister city, maybe exchange one of our commissioners for Stu for a 6 month exchange. Lawrence needs to get some pizzazz into it's city hall governing.

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SnakeFist 4 years, 1 month ago

Gender isn't determined by genitalia, its determined by chromosomes. beastshawnee is wrong: we aren't all "born female" (as though an X chromosome changes to a Y at some point during development?); though it does take time for androgens to be produced and have an effect on outward appearance.

Those born with indistinct genitalia, and subsequently "assigned" the wrong gender through cosmetic surgery don't have gender identity disorder; in fact, its just the opposite: their gender identity is correct in that it conforms to genetic reality. But those who are born with genitalia that conforms to genetic reality, and then decide that reality needs to be changed to conform to their delusions, need psychological treatment (like any other person who has a problem accepting reality).

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oliveoyl 4 years, 1 month ago

lindseydoyle...WHAT?!? Bwahahahaha. Agenda? What exactly is their "agenda" and where are the facts to support your ridiculous claims? The bible doesn't count, my dear. As far as special rights go...special rights? It's not special rights for transgendered people to have equal opportunity for housing and jobs...thats just called rights. No one is going to hire someone specifically b/c they are transgendered...that would be special rights and treatment.

Bwahahahaha. Wow. Go back to la la land with your sugar plum trees and heterosexual unicorns. I'll pray for you.

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greenlid79 4 years, 1 month ago

Lindsey, explain. What exactly are you referring to as the "radical homosexual movement?' That sounds like a phrase spouted straight from the mouth of a foaming-at-the-mouth tv evangelist. Honestly, I know there are some kooky folks out there, but who REALLY wants to "convert" our children to homosexuality. Paranoia.

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Satirical 4 years, 1 month ago

jadkansas...

Thank you for agreeing with my statement that "(t)he question is not whether discrimination is always wrong, because it isn't, the question is whether particular discrimination is wrong, i.e. what is the basis of the discrimination."

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lindseydoyle 4 years, 1 month ago

"I think we should truly have compassion for anyone who is struggling with their gender identity." I agree that we should have compassion but this situation is extremely rare. Members of the radical homosexual movement are not so rare, however, and are using these people to further their own agenda. The movement is full of pedophiles and iconoclasts. It is not enough to secure special rights for their members based on their chosen behaviors, the iconoclasts want to destroy the institution of marriage as we know it. As for pedophilia, you don't have to look any further than Obama's own "safe schools czar" Kevin Singer. He advocated using safety in our schools as a means of indoctinating children into homosexuality. There is a very real threat to our children. There is already mandatory schooling in Europe for ten year olds, "The Pleasures of Sex." In this country members of a group which Singer previously led were teaching preteens intricate details of homosexual practices. What about the rights of our children. The people need to be protected from the ploys of the radical homosexual movement who use the transgender issue toward their own ends.

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

Ok, I'll concede that it's discrimination towards felons, but it's is a justifiable need. Saying a person may no longer have a desire to isn't in question. The person's merit has already been compromised by their commentment to perform the wrongdoing in the first place. You don't rebuild merit by simply saying "I won't do it again, promise".

It's still a bad word, but a necessary evil for the well being of general populace. That said, there's no wrongdoing being done by transgenders trying to live a normal life like the rest of us and therefore, they should not be discriminated against.

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oliveoyl 4 years, 1 month ago

none2, I believe what CDC was saying was that how lucky most of us are to not have to question our gender identity. I know that I am a female, always have, always will...pure and simple. I doubt that this was a cocky statement.
What a traumatic thing to not know who you are. Most transgendered individuals have dealt with this question since childhood. It's like being born in the wrong body. This is not a choice and is different from cross dressing. Anyone can cross dress, including gender confident people. The statements that put transgendered people in the same boat as pedophiles is completely unfound and ignorant. Most of the people who spoke against this issue were spewing falsehoods and obviously don't know what the hell they were talking about...they don't even know what transgender means! They think it's a choice, "One day you're a women, the next day you're a man. What's next...one day you'll decide to be a dog?" This is the kind of ignorance and bigotry they were displaying. Using religion and spewing scriptures are not facts. Those people call themselves "Christian"...thats two words they don't know the meaning of. They also don't know the word "compassion". Spreading fear (oh a word they know!) is their agenda.

I am lucky to be gender condident and know who I am. Like, CDC, I wish those that stuggle with gender identity could have the same rights as myself.

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Satirical 4 years, 1 month ago

jadkansas... "however that is not discrimination as it's a matter of merit"

Wrong, it is discrimination by your definition: "treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class,or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit"

This person may no longer have an desire to molest children, i.e. no "individual merit" to deny employment in day-care center. However, we still don't allow any convicted child molesters, "as a group, class or category to which that person belongs", to work in the day-care center.

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Satirical 4 years, 1 month ago

jadkansas... "It's not?"

No, its not. All laws discriminate. Anytime you define anything you discriminate.

Felons can't own guns. That's discrimination. Do you want end that as well? Men can't get maternity leave. That's discrimination too. The question is not whether discrimination is always wrong, because it isn't, the question is whether particular discrimination is wrong, i.e. what is the basis of the discrimination.

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

Satirical (anonymous) says...

jadkansas... "let's have a policy to not dicriminate against people, as in humans."

Yeah, we totally shouldn't discriminate against convicted child molesters and prevent them from being employed as day-care workers. Discrimination isn't a bad thing. But not all discrimination is good thing.

Yes, those who have broke the law and need to be restricted from certain areas of society due to their transgressions should not be allowed to seek employment in those areas, however that is not discrimination as it's a matter of merit, not what sex that person may or may not be.

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

Satirical says... but it shouldn't be a blanket non-discrimination because discrimination isn't a bad word.


It's not?

Webster's definiton of Discrimination:

treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class,or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit

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Satirical 4 years, 1 month ago

jadkansas... "let's have a policy to not dicriminate against people, as in humans."

Yeah, we totally shouldn't discriminate against convicted child molesters and prevent them from being employed as day-care workers. Discrimination isn't a bad thing. But not all discrimination is good thing.

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Satirical 4 years, 1 month ago

LOL

"praying" should be "preying"

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

I wonder if there is any connection between Gender Identity Disorder and Human Chimerism.

And I'm with Tao7, let's have a policy to not dicriminate against people, as in humans.

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Satirical 4 years, 1 month ago

smokencurt... "With each new law, no matter how well intended, some rights are taken frome someone."

Actually, whenever a right is granted a duty is owed...like the duty to allow men who dress in drag indiscriminate access to women's restrooms. To address others' concerns, simply because there are alternative ways of praying on women doesn't mean we should make it as easy as possible for those with those proclivities. Or maybe we shouldn't discriminate against child molesters since they are born that way...do we need a law for that as well?

I am all for sensible laws. I have no problem if this were limited to no discrimination in housing or employment, but it shouldn't be a blanket non-discrimination because discrimination isn't a bad word.

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smokencurt 4 years, 1 month ago

Olympics, you are so far off the point! Where did the term RIGHT WING come from? You don't like it so now it has to be a bunch of right wing crazy white rich fat men with sheets on, and of course you do not make judgements. On sexural predators, these people are animales who will do ANYTHING to pray on children. They will use pets, offer candy, and yes sneak into restrooms. I don't think any of this is ment to discriminate against anyone, but we are looking at a very small part of the community and need to be carefull about adding new laws. With each new law, no matter how well intended, some rights are taken frome someone.

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beastshawnee 4 years, 1 month ago

Part of the problem is we don't understand the biology. All fetuses start of as female. The ovaries drop and become testes in men. Quite frankly, the process sometimes works differently. We humans who like our issues to be black and white need to wake up and recognize that there are infinite shades of gray. Some females are almost and part male, some males are almost and part female, some females brain chemistry tells them they are male, and some males brain chemistry tells them they are female. But who is to say if they are really female, and the body is wrong? If we look at it like some Native Americans who said they had 2 souls, then maybe that would be a healthier view, just accept them for who they are individually, and not judge. Even right wing Christians should read that part of the bible, about not judging.

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bookemdano 4 years, 1 month ago

There is plenty of evidence that transgendered people aren't just suffering from mental illness or seeking attention. I would think you'd need look no further than the many cases of intersex (which, for those who don't know, are people born with both male and female genetalia) where, soon after the birth, the doctors remove the less developed of the two genitals, and then raise the child in the gender affiliated with the sex organs that remained.

In many of these cases, the "wrong" decision was made, and the child self-identifies with the gender that was removed. In a lot of those cases the child later undergoes sex re-assignment surgery to "fix" the problem.

That right there should show that your gender is more in your mind than your body.

Your mind and your body are not always in sync, and where there is a conflict, the mind wins. Perhaps 99% of the time fetuses form "correctly" in that the physical and mental gender assignments are in sync. But intersexed people are prime evidence that things are not as clear-cut as we would like them to be.

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chocolateplease 4 years, 1 month ago

I know on the face of it, it would seem obvious that a penis= being a man, etc. However, if you listen to what scientists are now saying on the subject, you will learn that it's not that simple and that gender identification has many more components than physical body parts.

I think we should truly have compassion for anyone who is struggling with their gender identity, or anyone who has discovered that it doesn't match what their body parts suggest. And at the least, that compassion would include non-discrimination protection, wouldn't it?

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tao7 4 years, 1 month ago

Why don't they just have a policy to not discriminate against PEOPLE. What a world that would be!!

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bearlybrewed 4 years, 1 month ago

Oh and by the way one day during a confrontation over unsafe food service practices they asked him to do they repeatedly called him a f*ing ah*e. When he retaliated with fg they called the police and charged him with a hate crime (in another state) and disturbing the peace. All this was documented by witnesses. Sounds fair and equal to me????

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 1 month ago

Consumer,

Bigots hate being called bigots, but it is the truth.

Your issue is that you feel shame when confronted with your motives in a mirror.

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bad_dog 4 years, 1 month ago

LawrenceFAQ (anonymous) says... "For those few of you who identify yourself in this or any LJW blog your comments are greatly welcomed and appreciated."

And for those that remain anonymous? Oh the irony...

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bearlybrewed 4 years, 1 month ago

My son is a heterosexual and he should have special rights as well. He has been discriminated against by a homosexual couple who owned a business for whom he worked. Let's all parade our sexuality on the street corners, be annoying and winey about it, demand special rights etc etc etc........get a life people. Stop being a circus sidewhow with your sexuality, live your life the way you wish and get on with it.

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LawrenceFAQ 4 years, 1 month ago

Not to repeat myself from the last meeting but... For those few of you who identify yourself in this or any LJW blog your comments are greatly welcomed and appreciated. Your views, whether for or against this issue, stand out amidst the otherwise basic slew of rants and name calling by individuals unwilling to identify themselves. I can't say why the Commission voted the way they did but I heard both sides presented them with an abundance of information as to why they should vote on their side. It could be sheer numbers, meaning lack of assault or racial cases filed to show there is a problem. On the other hand it might be the confusion of society on the infamous "bathroom issue" and percieved view of a transgeder person. Who can say? In any case this was a very difficult issue, one the commission and Lawrence has been battling for months. I suspect this isn't the last we've heard of this issue however.

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notjustyoureverydayaveragetrol 4 years, 1 month ago

Happy day! Good job, those people need some serious help!

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bad_dog 4 years, 1 month ago

Vino, if you're not a stromboli and "cuisine confident" about it, I can only offer you my heartfelt empathy.

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InVinoVeritas 4 years, 1 month ago

SnakeFist

Don’t joke about pizza identity confusion disorder (PICD). I thought I was a calzone for years.

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consumer1 4 years, 1 month ago

Amazing, when the sqeaky wheel doesn't get what it wants, the hateful words just seem to be ramant. True liberalism.... as long as you agree with them and do what they want !!

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consumer1 4 years, 1 month ago

Amazing, when the sqeaky wheel doesn't get what it wants, the hateful words just seem to be ramant. True liberalism.... as long as you agree with them and do what they want !!

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 1 month ago

old enough,

They say the illness is based on being foced to live a life that does not match your identity, the cure it gender reassignment surgery. Decades of research show that to be true.

The truth does not fit your ignorance only means your ignorance ignores the truth.

The only reason behind bigotry is hate and ignorance, quit making excuses and own up to it.

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jafs 4 years, 1 month ago

OldEnuf,

That's the same folks who pathologized it in the first place, and only changed that diagnosis after many years.

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SnakeFist 4 years, 1 month ago

Sexual orientation is a subject preference - its like saying "I like pizza" - no rational person has a problem with that. But gender identity disorder is a rejection of reality - its like saying "I am a pizza", i.e., I am something that, in fact, I am not - which should be treated, not enabled.

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none2 4 years, 1 month ago

cdc (anonymous) says...

Such a sad day for Lawrence. I feel privileged that I am gender-confident. I only wish that those who are NOT could have the same rights as me.

"Gender-confident"??? Does that mean someone gave you a pat on the back after sex? Does it mean your parents gave you gold star stickers as a child every time you were able to dress yourself without their help, or does it mean you were more attractive than other children? Does it mean you are bragging about your endowment?

Most people I know aren't so cocky as to call themselves "gender-confident".

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BigPrune 4 years, 1 month ago

As I understand it, as the laws are now, the transgender people are already protected. To change this policy would give these people extra rights. If it was passed, if a guy wants to hang out in a woman's restroom and watch women or girls use the restroom, the City would have to defend this guy's rights, because who are "we" to say this would be wrong if the guy said he had a gender issue. An easy copout at best that could easily be abused and that guy would have to be defended by our local government as his protected right to hang out in women's restrooms. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

No bigotry intended or implied. Just common sense this thing did not pass.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 4 years, 1 month ago

Even in the APA's DSM IV-TR, Gender Identity Disoder is considered an illness. So, is the APA full of bigots? The same "bigots" who depathologized homosexuality?

What has happened to common sense? If I have a penis, but think I'm a woman, isn't there something wrong in my head? We apply Mokam's Razor to everything else, but when there is an agenda, we will say that the logical is a "completely different kind of stupid".

If you are sporting a penis but identify yourself as a woman, someone has STOLEN your masculinity. Don't cave in to that! Get pissed, and go looking for your identity as a man!

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InVinoVeritas 4 years, 1 month ago

What if a person feels like a woman on odd days of the week and man on the even days. I know lets use government resources to discuss this paradox ad nauseam.

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Satirical 4 years, 1 month ago

I wonder how many who support this measure also support not discriminating if men want to use a woman's restroom. Remember ALL discrimination is wrong...

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flux 4 years, 1 month ago

I bet the city commision just couldnt wait to participate in this discussion

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InVinoVeritas 4 years, 1 month ago

Lawrence, a completely different kind of stupid than Topeka.

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funkdog1 4 years, 1 month ago

This isn't done. Hopefully the City Commission is made up of smarter folks.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 1 month ago

Even Pat is not sure how to handle this urgent societal dilemma.....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/99/Itispat.jpg

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Souki 4 years, 1 month ago

Why would anyone think that a sexual predator's strategy would be to dress as a woman to gain access to women and girls in a restroom?

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 4 years, 1 month ago

Yes, when it IS bigotry.

Having a penis makes you a man. Having a vagina makes you a woman. Does that sound hateful to anyone?

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 1 month ago

The only motives behind supporting bigotry is hate and ignorance.

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cdc 4 years, 1 month ago

Such a sad day for Lawrence. I feel privileged that I am gender-confident. I only wish that those who are NOT could have the same rights as me.

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Olympics 4 years, 1 month ago

Oh, how these right-wingers love to equate homosexuality and/or transgendered lifestyles = sexual predators. Trans-gendered people are RARE and not a serious threat to women/children.

Straight-identified males are the VAST majority sexual predators. The cross dressing sexual predator scenario described above is not occurring, but the fear is strong among these people.

Think about the children. THE CHILDREN!

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