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Opinion

Opinion

Despite Democrats, the people prevail

February 5, 2010

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— “I am not an ideologue,” protested President Obama at a gathering with Republican House members last week. Perhaps, but he does have a tenacious commitment to a set of political convictions.

Compare his 2010 State of the Union to his first address to Congress a year earlier. The consistency is remarkable. In 2009, after passing a $787 billion (now $862 billion) stimulus package, the largest spending bill in galactic history, he unveiled a manifesto for fundamentally restructuring the commanding heights of American society — health care, education and energy.

A year later, after stunning Democratic setbacks in Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts, Obama gave a stay-the-course State of the Union address (a) pledging not to walk away from health care reform, (b) seeking to turn college education increasingly into a federal entitlement, and (c) asking again for cap-and-trade energy legislation. Plus, of course, another stimulus package, this time renamed a “jobs bill.”

This being a democracy, don’t the Democrats see that clinging to this agenda will march them over a cliff? Don’t they understand Massachusetts?

Well, they understand it through a prism of two cherished axioms: (1) The people are stupid and (2) Republicans are bad. Result? The dim, led by the malicious, vote incorrectly.

Liberal expressions of disdain for the intelligence and emotional maturity of the electorate have been, post-Massachusetts, remarkably unguarded. New York Times columnist Charles Blow chided Obama for not understanding the necessity of speaking “in the plain words of plain folks,” because the people are “suspicious of complexity.” Counseled Blow: “The next time he gives a speech, someone should tap him on the ankle and say, ‘Mr. President, we’re down here.’”

Obama joined the parade in the State of the Union address when, with supercilious modesty, he chided himself “for not explaining it (health care) more clearly to the American people.” The subject, he noted, was “complex.” The subject, it might also be noted, was one to which the master of complexity had devoted 29 speeches. Perhaps he did not speak slowly enough.

Then there are the emotional deficiencies of the masses. Nearly every Democratic apologist lamented the people’s anger and anxiety, a free-floating agitation that prevented them from appreciating the beneficence of the social agenda the Democrats are so determined to foist upon them.

That brings us to Part 2 of the liberal conceit: Liberals act in the public interest, while conservatives think only of power, elections, self-aggrandizement and self-interest.

It is an old liberal theme that conservative ideas, being red in tooth and claw, cannot possibly emerge from any notion of the public good. A 2002 New York Times obituary for philosopher Robert Nozick explained that the strongly libertarian implications of Nozick’s masterwork, “Anarchy, State, and Utopia,” “proved comforting to the right, which was grateful for what it embraced as philosophical justification.” The right, you see, is grateful when a bright intellectual can graft some philosophical rationalization onto its thoroughly base and self-regarding politics.

This belief in the moral hollowness of conservatism animates the current liberal mantra that Republican opposition to Obama’s social democratic agenda — which couldn’t get through even a Democratic Congress and powered major Democratic losses in New Jersey, Virginia and Massachusetts — is nothing but blind and cynical obstructionism.

By contrast, Democratic opposition to George W. Bush — from Iraq to Social Security reform — constituted dissent. And dissent, we were told at the time, including by candidate Obama, is “one of the truest expressions of patriotism.”

No more. Today, dissent from the governing orthodoxy is nihilistic malice. “They made a decision,” explained David Axelrod, “they were going to sit it out and hope that we failed, that the country failed” — a perfect expression of liberals’ conviction that their aspirations are necessarily the country’s, that their idea of the public good is the public’s, that their failure is therefore the nation’s.

Then comes Massachusetts, an election Obama himself helped nationalize, to shatter this most self-congratulatory of illusions.

For liberals, the observation that “the peasants are revolting” is a pun. For conservatives, it is cause for uncharacteristic optimism. No matter how far the ideological pendulum swings in the short term, in the end the bedrock common sense of the American people will prevail.

The ankle-dwelling populace pushes back. It re-centers. It renormalizes. Even in Massachusetts.

— Charles Krauthammer is a columnist for Washington Post Writers Group letters@charleskrauthammer.com

Comments

anon1958 4 years, 7 months ago

Well I am sure when sourkraut writes that things are worse for the democrats than they really are it cheers up the tea bagger crowd. Other than that I dont know why he bothers.

Krauthammer and his kin are one reason newspapers are failing. Even a few posters that i consider rather dubious make more sense that sourkrauthammer. Only, difference is they are paying the so called columnist.

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jayhawklawrence 4 years, 7 months ago

It is hard for me to believe the sauerkraut takes himself seriously.

He reminds me sometimes of the former Information Minister of Baghdad except he is not funny at all.

If Charlie had a sense of humor I might enjoy the ridiculous columns he writes. He is a guy that nobody would want to invite to a party. That's for sure.

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BrianR 4 years, 7 months ago

It should read "Despite politicians..." The big news is that Scott Brown's swearing in ceremony opens the possibility that the Republicans can now create enough blockage that the Administration can accomplish nothing. Scott vows to be an independent voice but they all end up dancing with the one that brung 'em.

Between that and Palin's anti-American activism, the next few years should be interesting times.

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Brent Garner 4 years, 7 months ago

Palin's anti-American activism? What about Mr. "Apologize for everything" Obama? Isn't that anti-American also?

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

How Brown votes really depends on what his intentions are for the re-election campaign in 2012.

If he wants to get re-elected, he's likely to vote with the Democrats-- a lot.

If he's just going to do a Sarah Palin, he may vote the party line and get a job with Fox when he loses in 2012.

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jayhawklawrence 4 years, 7 months ago

I may be half German, but I still hate sauerkraut.

Just give me the meat and keep the cabbage!

...and the beer!

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leedavid 4 years, 7 months ago

Obama's job approval numbers are at an all time low, unemployment remains horrible, economy is pitiful, and the nation is divided by hate.

Wonder if Obama will give a speech today, he does every day anymore. Yep, looks like he has one this afternoon.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

Actually, Obama's approval ratings right now are fairly typical for a president after their first year. Bush the Younger was one of the few who had significantly higher approval ratings, but that's because he was willing to demagogue 9/11. He couldn't play that card forever, so approval ratings for the worst president in modern times really tanked by the time he left office.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

The sooner Dear Leader is in a cell in Leavenworth and Biden is packed off to Betty Ford, the better off America will be. (yes, I do do hyperbole sometimes)

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jaywalker 4 years, 7 months ago

"I am sure when sourkraut writes that things are worse for the democrats than they really are it cheers up the tea bagger crowd"

Don't know how 'bad' things are for the Democrats, but the significance in the outcomes of the races in NJ, Va, and Mass should be cause for concern, at the least.

And it's the "tea party protesters". So sick of the immature 'tea baggers' comments. Hundreds of thousands turned out to protest the stimulus bill, rightfully concerned about getting stuck with a gi-normous raise in taxes for a 3 trillion dollar shot in the dark. Enough with the junior high epithets about people exercising their First Amendment rights.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

"Enough with the junior high epithets"

Jeez, dude, you include such epithets in about every other post.

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notajayhawk 4 years, 7 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

"If he wants to get re-elected, he's likely to vote with the Democrats— a lot."

Psssst - boohoohoozo: The people of Massachusetts elected a Republican. I'm surprised you didn't know, it's been in all the papers.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

Brown's situation really isn't much different from that of a Blue Dog Democrat elected in a largely Republican state. They have to vote more like a Republican than a Democrat, (which is one of the main reasons the healthcare bills suck so bad) or they won't get re-elected.

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jaywalker 4 years, 7 months ago

Callin' the likes of you and porch 'morons' is apropos, bozo. Smearing a generalized cross section of the country with a disgusting sexual term is juvenile.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

That's a nice junior-high rationalization.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

"Actually, Obama's approval ratings right now are fairly typical for a president after their first year." Check out the numbers, bozo. Only Clinton has had a lower rating in the post-Truman era. http://www.gallup.com/poll/125096/obama-averages-approval-first-year-office.aspx

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

Well, a 57% approval rating ties him with Ronnie "airhead" Rayguns, and given the polarized nature of politics these days, it's not really all that bad.

And I would venture to say that a good percentage of the 43% who disapprove do so not because he's been "too far left," but rather "too far right."

So while Democrats' approval ratings (rightly) aren't great, they are still better than for Republicans.

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salad 4 years, 7 months ago

Once again, Kraphammer is in his own dilusional world. Actually, he shares that dilusional world with Tom Shewmon and several others....black is white, sky is neon green. So I wonder if Kraphammer will post a retraction from last week, when he excoriated the Obama admin. for mirandizing the terrorist who tried to blow up the flight to Detroit on Christmas day, and clammed up after he was told he had the right to remain silent. Chuck would have us torture first and ask questions if convenient. So now that it turns out that the FBI got him to spill his guts with TONS of great intell that has resulted in arrests in Indonesia and Yemen, all without violating the guys rights or torturing him. Hmmmm.....get it wrong much Chuck????

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notajayhawk 4 years, 7 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

"Brown's situation really isn't much different from that of a Blue Dog Democrat elected in a largely Republican state. They have to vote more like a Republican than a Democrat, (which is one of the main reasons the healthcare bills suck so bad) or they won't get re-elected."

Uh, yeah. Except for the fact that he got elected precisely because of the electorate's disapproval of the way the Dems are running things. So you're saying if he wants to get RE-elected, he should vote more like the party the electorate just toosed out of that seat?

Remind me, should I ever choose to run for elected office, not to hire Herr Klowne as my political strategist.

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georgiahawk 4 years, 7 months ago

Apologizing is un-American?!?!? Since when? Are you really that fragile that you can't admit when you made a mistake and apologize for it? My parents, the nuns and priests were all un-American for asking me to apologize when I did wrong (which was often)???? Typical non-thnking conservative. I guess if my logic was as unsound I would feel fragile too!

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jaywalker 4 years, 7 months ago

"That's a nice junior-high rationalization."

That might carry some weight if you weren't a practitioner yourself.

"So while Democrats' approval ratings (rightly) aren't great, they are still better than for Republicans."

Masterful how you're able to concoct a conclusion out of thin air.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

Brown most certainly got elected because voters are disappointed with the Democrats, but in Massachusetts, for many voters that means they didn't like that the Dems had moved so far to the right, and they stayed away from the polls rather than voting.

Brown was very careful not to seem too Republican, and if he's seen as a mainstream Republican in his actions in the Senate, he will lose in 2012-- probably very badly.

I'm predicting that he's going to either emphasize his ability to be "bipartisan," or just fade into the woodwork as much as possible.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

"That might carry some weight if you weren't a practitioner yourself."

Either the statement was true or false, regardless of whether it was me or someone else who said it.

And while I don't claim to be pure as the driven snow, what I can say is that personal insults are not a primary characteristic of my posting MO-- unlike you.

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LoveThsLife 4 years, 7 months ago

"....the next few years should be interesting times."

Yes, it will be..I think it will be very unpredictable. I don't think it is about Democrats or Republicans as much as it is about a dissatisfaction with politicians in general.

I think leadership on both sides are a bit too out of touch to understand that though.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

Of course, Dear Leader's approval rating includes the dedicated Flavor-Aid drinkers that will never give up hoping for their unicorns and free candy. Just knock another 20% of his rating to compensate.

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LoveThsLife 4 years, 7 months ago

"Brown most certainly got elected because voters are disappointed with the Democrats, but in Massachusetts, for many voters that means they didn't like that the Dems had moved so far to the right, and they stayed away from the polls rather than voting."

I don't know if I agree with this statement entirely. Massachusetts is changing..I don't think it is as "blue" as it used to be. In addition, out of anyone Mass. had a health care over haul when Romney was Governor and they are seeing problems with the system. In fact, the health care reform that they had which mandated people to receive health care hasn't been popular with people living in the state. It has been much more expensive that what was initially projected. The fact that they may be unsatisfied with what has gone on in their state might be another reason why Coakley lost.

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Satirical 4 years, 7 months ago

One of Kraut's better articles which does a great job of summing up the Liberals' method of politics and their delusion that they are the only group that cares about people.

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LoveThsLife 4 years, 7 months ago

I'll be honest though, I am not looking forward to the next few elections...I hate all the negative adds..I am sure it is just going to get worse. I am really sick of hearing each side talk about how "evil" the other side is. Those ads are usually misleading anyway.

During election time I just want them to lay out their position on the issues and be done with it.

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beatrice 4 years, 7 months ago

Tom: "If you were anti-Bush/anti-Bush policies, you were a true patriot, a dissenter using free speech to protest a current government, but now? Not so much the case."

Tom, you seem to have a very short memory of your own statements. What exatly have you been saying these past nine years about those who were anti-Bush/anti-Bush policies? Now take all those nasty things you wrote about them, and apply them to the anti-Obama/anti-Obama policies people. At least Obama hasn't said "You are either with us or against us," when talking about fellow Americans with opposing viewpoints.

The Dems still have a very large majority, just not a filibuster proof majority. If the Republicans choose to filibuster every single vote, then they will look more like the party of NO! than they already do. NO ideas, NO directioin, NO credibility, NO accountability.

On the lighter side: I would say that with Brown's swearing in Ted Kennedy was rolling over in his grave yesterday, but lets be honest, I'm not so sure he could have rolled over on his own when he was still alive.

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LoveThsLife 4 years, 7 months ago

"On the lighter side: I would say that with Brown's swearing in Ted Kennedy was rolling over in his grave yesterday, but lets be honest, I'm not so sure he could have rolled over on his own when he was still alive."

I feel really guilty laughing at this..since he's dead and all...but that was funny.

So, thanks for the laugh.

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georgiahawk 4 years, 7 months ago

Tom, I personally do not know or have ever cared to know the history of Iran, but, I used to work with an Iranian woman that told me, when I refered to her as being Arab, that Iranians were not Arab, but were descended from a Germanic tribe of some sort or another.

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EXks 4 years, 7 months ago

Incompetent and impotent republican leadership qualities gave us: 9-11 and the deaths of thousands of innocent Americans, 2 unfinished wars, tens of thousands of maimed (brave) soldiers, turning a multi-million dollar budget surplus into a trillion dollar deficit,.......

Regressive evolution, incompetent republican leadership at its best, glen beck tin foil hat syndrome....live on!

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ModerateOne 4 years, 7 months ago

Healthcare and education actually are complicated issues. That good people may wish the issues to be uncomplicated does not make them so.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

Heartache in Indonesia. “JAKARTA, Indonesia — A recently-erected statue of President Obama as a 10-year-old boy will be removed from a public park here, city officials said Friday, bowing to vociferous criticism on Facebook just a month before Mr. Obama is scheduled to visit Indonesia… More than 56,000 Facebook members joined an Indonesian-language Facebook group called “Take Down the Barack Obama Statue in Menteng Park.” Critics also filed a lawsuit to force the city to remove the statue…”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/06/world/asia/06indo.html

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MyName 4 years, 7 months ago

Partisan hack opinion writer pens another worthless scree.

In other news, water is wet.

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lindseydoyle 4 years, 7 months ago

How much have things really changed from Bush to Obama? Not much. The politics of special interests will continue to prevail as long as the electorate is focused on made up partisan differences. That is the controlled media's purpose for opinion pieces such as this.

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georgiahawk 4 years, 7 months ago

Barry, what reasoning did I use? I was relating a story about what I was told by an Iranian about Iran. By the way, my grand fathers name was Adolph, is that supposed to have special meaning regarding his character similar to your special meaning for Barack's name?

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georgiahawk 4 years, 7 months ago

lindsey, you are right! I think there is less difference between beltway d's and r's then there is between them and the rest of us!

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jayhawklawrence 4 years, 7 months ago

Just to set the record straight.

I am not a liberal nor am I a Republican or Democrat.

I have been voting for almost 30 years and have voted mostly Republican every time.

If you give me Palin or Obama to vote for in the next election, I will vote for Obama.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

What are they saying in Dear Leader's home town? “Now that the president's friend and basketball buddy Alexi Giannoulias is the Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate seat in Illinois, here's the thing: Will Barack Obama feed Giannoulias the ball and do the hard work setting picks for him, or will the president stay out of the gym, cool, detached, without breaking a sweat over Illinois politics? Obama was burned by campaigning in Massachusetts last month, where the state went from deep blue to red, the election of Republican Scott Brown an embarrassment to Obama and a referendum on the president's policies. Complicating things for the president in Illinois is that Giannoulias was battered by primary opponent David Hoffman, who used the Giannoulias family's Broadway Bank — and its loans to mob figures and a convicted influence peddler — in a series of devastating TV spots. That influence peddler is none other than Obama's own real estate fairy, Tony Rezko. The national Republicans are eager to take Obama's old Senate seat with liberal Republican Mark Kirk. And they're hoping to tie the president to the seamy politics of the state and to Obama's old friend Rezko. So how far will Barack be willing to go and risk getting bruised badly? "The president doesn't necessarily need to come here that much," said political consultant and Fox Chicago analyst Thomas Serafin. "He could come early and do some fundraisers, and then after Labor Day spend the rest of his time in Washington, dealing with the state of the world." That might be good advice. The state of the world is one thing. But in the summer, as the Senate campaigns heat up again, the state of Illinois will be about one thing: Corruption…” http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/ct-met-kass-0203-20100203,0,439103.column

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jayhawklawrence 4 years, 7 months ago

News flash:

Unemployment just dropped to 9.7% in January.

I guess the Republicans are going to have to try harder with their wrecking ball.

Good news sucks don't it.

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jayhawklawrence 4 years, 7 months ago

Seems I remember you predicting the Dow would drop below 4,000 about a year ago.

Maybe that was your buddy George of Western Kansas.

Now that its bouncing around 10K you think that is bad news caused by Obama instead of what it really is, a natural correction in a rising stock market.

I think you are beating this Massachusetts thing to death. It is getting very boring. Give it another 2 weeks and no one will remember it happened.

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pace 4 years, 7 months ago

Darn those democrats wanting to have their way after being elected. They should understand the billion dollar ads and hysterical pr campaign should just shut them up. It is the will of the fundamentally right, can't they just accept the dollar speaks louder than the vote.

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Jim Phillips 4 years, 7 months ago

bea--"The Dems still have a very large majority, just not a filibuster proof majority. If the Republicans choose to filibuster every single vote, then they will look more like the party of NO! than they already do. ..."

Given the garbage coming out of Washington as of late, I'm OK with that moniker. NO redistribution of wealth, NO more failing stimulus bills, NO government run health care, NO government owned businesses, NO Cap and Trade, etc. Yep, I'm good with that!

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notajayhawk 4 years, 7 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

"Brown most certainly got elected because voters are disappointed with the Democrats, but in Massachusetts, for many voters that means they didn't like that the Dems had moved so far to the right, and they stayed away from the polls rather than voting."

The turnout was the biggest turnout for a non-presidential election in many years, boohoozo.

As far as the voters displeasure with the Democrats being because they were too 'Republican', Herr Klowne, were that the case, would the solution to that problem have been (pretty handily) electing a Republican?

Do you think everyone in Massachusetts could possibly be as stupid as you are?

"Brown was very careful not to seem too Republican"

Where are you getting this stuff from? Take off the blinders, boohoohoohoozo. Brown made it clear at every opportunity he was against the policies of the current administration and the Democrat-controlled congress, and that he was going to Washington to try to stop them. Deal with it, boohoohoohoohoozo.


jayhawklawrence (Anonymous) says…

"News flash:

"Unemployment just dropped to 9.7% in January."

News flash - the only way the rate went down was because a whole bunch of people gave up looking and/or ran out of benefits. The actual number of people not working increased by 20,000, following a month whose jobs-lost numbers had to be later revised to almost twice as many (150,000 instead of the 85,000 they reported back then). Who knows what January's numbers will actually turn out to be when they are 'revised.'

20,000 more Americans out of work and that's GOOD news, jhl?


pace (Anonymous) says…

"Darn those democrats wanting to have their way after being elected. They should understand the billion dollar ads and hysterical pr campaign should just shut them up. It is the will of the fundamentally right, can't they just accept the dollar speaks louder than the vote."

Remind us all again, pace - which one of the candidates spent three-quarters of a billion dollars on getting elected in 2008?


georgiahawk (Anonymous) says…

"I used to work with an Iranian woman that told me, when I refered to her as being Arab, that Iranians were not Arab, but were descended from a Germanic tribe of some sort or another."

They're not Arabic, they're Persian.


beatrice (Anonymous) says…

"If the Republicans choose to filibuster every single vote, then they will look more like the party of NO! than they already do. NO ideas, NO directioin, NO credibility, NO accountability."

Brought to you by todays' spokesperson from the party of "don't know, don't know, don't know."

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

Oh, those wacky Democrats in Illinois. "CHICAGO (CBS) ― Scott Lee Cohen, the Democratic nominee for Illinois lieutenant governor, is being urged to step aside amid allegations of physical violence against his ex-wife and ex-girlfriend. His ex-wife has also accused him of steroid use and repeated threats. Debra Cohen, the ex-wife of Democratic lieutenant governor nominee Scott Lee Cohen, says he tried to choke her before their marriage, tried to force himself on her after they were married and repeatedly screamed and cursed at her and her children. Amanda Eneman, arrested and charged with prostitution on April 28, 2005. Among the allegations against Scott Lee Cohen is that he put a knife to Eneman's throat during a fight. Cook County court records reveal that Democratic lieutenant governor nominee Scott Lee Cohen's ex-wife accused him of taking several anabolic steroids and repeatedly threatening her and her children. She also accused him Thursday of trying to choke her before their marriage. The allegations are coming to light as Cohen is resisting calls to step down from the party's ticket before the November general election." http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/quinn.cohen.comments.2.1470352.html

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jayhawklawrence 4 years, 7 months ago

The point is that if there is any good news right now, The Republicans are going to try to twist it into something bad...and their loyal disciples are going to spread out across the nation and repeat it like little mindless parrots.

Does that mean the Democrats are wonderful and perfect? Far from it.

Two issues I have with the Democrats (at least two).

The disturbing influence of unions in the government and the changes they are promoting such as ending the secret ballot and opening up employees to threats and peer pressure.

http://www.uschamber.com/issues/index/labor/cardchecksecrbal.htm

The tort reform issue. Democrats continue to block legislation to clean up the judicial system. Companies are exposed to huge frivolous lawsuits and unfair judgments. John Edwards was a beneficiary of one such huge malpractice lawsuit.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/aug/16/20040816-011234-1949r/

These are just two issues I have with Democrats, but they are very far from perfect and Obama is, in fact, a politician first.

The Republicans need to start telling the truth to the American people just like the Democrats, but the problem I see is that these guys don't know what the truth is.

Bonus issues:

Which political party is going to take the lead to end the anti-trust exemption enjoyed by the health insurance companies?

When are the American people going to refuse to join either political party until they start working for us instead of just themselves?

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ButlerHusker 4 years, 7 months ago

Interesting that in this economy, (1) people have so much time to jawbone, (2) Dems and Republicons forget the majority of us in the middle (no, not teabaggers). Maybe most people are idiots? from the political swings back and forth over the years . . . Republicons buy one election, people get screwed over, Dems win one, Republicons buy it back. Maybe we are idiots or just lazy? I'm not one to argue for less government, Hurricane Kathrina, Afghanistan, and the Haiti earthquake demonstrate the value / consequences of very little government aid to the people. What is the current makeup of Mass. State Government? I'll bet it is still pretty left-leaning. When people get tired of the extreme left, extreme right wing swings, they vote to try and balance out those extremes. Scott Brown? Temporary equalizing measure by the voters sick of rule by Lillith's gang? If the moderates in the middle (whatdaya think, maybe 3/5 of the voting public?) weren't working so hard to pay bills, maybe they could form a moderate party to erase the extreme swings and get rid of all the purchased smoke and mirrors? Naw, political spin doctors and advisors are about the only people working these days; they wouldn't allow a moderate party to exist for long.

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independant1 4 years, 7 months ago

I never blog/never post comments but...read these blogs alot. Krauthammer is a conservative Intellectual. Following this thread is like driving down a dirt road in the Flint Hills and have to say 3 things. 1. We need another unofficial Pres of the US like Will Rogers today 2. Way too much argumentum ad hominem in here that gets in way of good give and take and 3. All spending bills begin in the House (I was present on that day in Grade 6,). Did I say 3? 3.1. Gosh darn those dems and gosh darn those repubs the older you get the more conservative you become else arrested maturation. Read and understand both sides of the argument is what I learned at KU. In this thread score reads cons 6 progs 1. Me? Not so smart former bakers helper at the Kansas Union, that's how I paid my tuition.

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notajayhawk 4 years, 7 months ago

jayhawklawrence (Anonymous) says…

"The point is that if there is any good news right now, The Republicans are going to try to twist it into something bad…and their loyal disciples are going to spread out across the nation and repeat it like little mindless parrots."

Um, no.

The point is that the news wasn't good in the first place. Regardless of the unemployment rate falling (which happens when people give up their job search and are no longer covered by benefits), more jobs are being lost. That is not "good news", jhl.

The point is the Dems will cherry pick, grasp at any straw to say 'Hey, look, good news!', without reporting the whole picture. Kind of like saying 'I've just been diagnosed with liver cancer, but hey, I've been eating Cheerios so I've lowered my cholesterol.'

The point is that the true "mindless parrots" will stand in line for another glass of kool-aid, that in their desperation to avoid accepting they backed the wrong horse, they'll blindly accept the "good news" they're being fed without bothering to look at what the numbers actually say.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

"The disturbing influence of unions in the government and the changes they are promoting such as ending the secret ballot and opening up employees to threats and peer pressure.

http://www.uschamber.com/issues/index

The tort reform issue. Democrats continue to block legislation to clean up the judicial system. Companies are exposed to huge frivolous lawsuits and unfair judgments. John Edwards was a beneficiary of one such huge malpractice lawsuit.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2…"

You couldn't have picked two more biased sources for yout information, jayhawklawrence.

With regards to the "secret union ballot" issue, the Chamber of Commerce couldn't care less about protecting democratic traditions. And they most certainly couldn't care less about threats and intimidation of workers-- to the contrary, what they doing is protecting the "right" of their members to threaten and intimidate workers to keep them from organizing into unions.

Here's a more balanced discussion of the issues involved.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/14/AR2009031401823.html

And with regard to tort reform, it's very expensive to take a malpractice suit to trial. Lawyers are only going to take on the ones they think they can win, and the ones that are going to have large enough payouts to make it worth their while. Which means, quite simply, that most potential malpractice cases never get made, and lawyers will almost always pass on cases that may be ruled frivolous for the simple reason that if they don't win the case, they get absolutely nothing (since they are almost always done on a contingency basis.)

Does that mean it never happens? No, but the fact is that malpractice awards account for only about 2% of overall medical costs, and the outrageous premiums doctors pay are primarily because of the greed of the insurance companies, not evil lawyers and patients calling doctors to account for their mistakes. And the tort reforms proposed by Democrats, as described in the Washington Times article you linked, would remedy most of the abuses that do happen.

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jayhawklawrence 4 years, 7 months ago

Bozo:

"And they most certainly couldn't care less about threats and intimidation of workers— to the contrary, what they doing is protecting the “right” of their members to threaten and intimidate workers to keep them from organizing into unions."

Thanks for your comments Bozo. On this one I don't think there is any way that you can defend ending secret ballots by unions.

Working to expand the power of unions is a strange example of government wanting to help manufacturing become more competitive in the global market and ending secret ballots is a very suspicious activity in my view. I think it goes against basic American values.

It reminds me of something the socialists or even the communists would dream up to promote their anti capitalist agenda.

There is no quicker way to turn Americans against the Democrats then to see them allied with socialists.

So far I have resisted the Republican propaganda on this issue, but it is something I am concerned about as are all US Manufacturers.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

Worth repeating: jaywalker (Anonymous) says… ...Porch_person's modus operandi when confronting opposing viewpoints: (Step 1) Quote something completely random the opponent says. It doesn’t have to be a full sentence or more than 5 words .(Step 2) Claim their quote should be interpreted to mean s/he supports ‘X’ ('X' = anything you want, like paving the streets with post-notes. Similar to how porchie claims you say something, even when he quoted you saying the exact opposite. It really doesn't matter what 'X' is, as long as it is ridiculous, and keeps the opponent on the defensive to distract from the fact you can't back up your argument). Alternatively, repeat step 1, and using the two random quotes claim they contradict each other. (Step 3) Mock opponent for believing ‘X’ (Step 4) When opponent claims s/he didn’t say that, respond by stating that you quoted him/her directly (even though when you paraphrase the statement it isn’t anything close to what s/he actually said) (Step 5) Insert “(laughter)” (Step 6) If opponent continues to claim s/he didn’t say ‘X,’ use a specious analogy. (Step 7) If opponent continues to respond, claim s/he is “in Garfinkel mode” trying to get away from the fact he said ‘X,’ and/or contradicted himself. But never explain how the quote you randomly pulled is anything close to ‘X.’ And never respond to his/her questions. (Step 8) Insert “(laughter)” (Step 9) If this does not work engage in personal (attacks) by making up facts about opponent, again using random quotes, as described in Step 1 (Step 10) Repeat until you have lost all credibility on the issue.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

In other news:

"At the National Prayer Breakfast, Barack Obama singled out for praise Navy Corpsman Christian Bouchard. Or as the president called him, “Corpseman Bouchard.” Twice.

Hey, not a big deal. Throughout his life, the commander-in-chief has had little contact with the military, and less interest. And, when you give as many speeches as this guy does, there’s no time to rehearse or read through: You just gotta fire up the prompter and wing it. But it’s revealing that nobody around him in the so-called smartest administration of all time thought to spell it out phonetically for him when the speech got typed up and loaded into the machine. Which suggests that either his minders don’t know that he doesn’t know that kinda stuff, or they don’t know it either..." http://article.nationalreview.com/424153/unsustainable/mark-steyn

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