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Archive for Monday, March 2, 2009

Israel threatens painful response to rockets

March 2, 2009

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— Prime Minister Ehud Olmert threatened a painful response to Palestinian rocket fire menacing southern Israel, suggesting Sunday that the blistering offensive against Gaza Strip militants fell short of its goals.

The prospect of heightened hostilities in Hamas-ruled Gaza cast a pall over a week of crucial diplomatic activity, including an international conference designed to drum up billions of dollars to rebuild the heavily damaged territory. With a new Israeli government to take office within weeks, however, it wasn’t clear how sweeping the country’s response to the rockets would be.

More than 110 rockets and mortar shells have exploded in Israel in the six weeks since it ended its air and ground onslaught against Gaza, which was meant to end the rocket threat and stanch the flow of arms into Gaza. So far, Israel has responded to the rocket fire mainly with airstrikes targeting underground tunnels used to smuggle weapons and other goods into Gaza from Egypt.

The rockets “will be answered with a painful, harsh, strong and uncompromising response from the security forces,” Olmert said at the start of the weekly Cabinet meeting.

There was no comment from Hamas or other Gaza militant groups. Several hours after Olmert spoke, a rocket exploded in southern Israel, causing no injuries.

Comments

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

Yea, bomb a few more schools, kill a few more babies. That'll stop it, just like it did the last time.

Flap Doodle 5 years, 9 months ago

Or they could just let Hamas fire rockets & mortars randomly into Israel.

jaywalker 5 years, 9 months ago

Because that's their strict intent, of course, bozo. And your response to someone shooting a rifle randomly into your home would be............?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"And your response to someone shooting a rifle randomly into your home would be…………?"

If I followed Israel's example, I'd blow up the entire neighborhood from which it came. Or if it were a drive-by shooting that came from a blue car, I'd blow up every blue car within a few hundred miles.

Flap Doodle 5 years, 9 months ago

Hamas will survive as long as there are useful bozo's who support their right to kill Jews whenever possible. .

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

You funny snap. I protest Israel's killing of Palestinians at 100 times the rate that Hamas kills Israelis, but what you hear is that I support Hamas, despite the fact that I have never, ever, anywhere, any time, expressed any such support.

Clearly, snap, it is you who support Israel's right to murder Palestinians, and what you stated in your last post is a pitiful attempt to hide your own cheerleading of mass murder.

beawolf 5 years, 9 months ago

Bozo, I understand your position, but I do not see any alternatives. Hamas is not going to back down. The Hamas are the ones who hide amongst the civilians putting them in harms way.

Here are a few quotes from their governments charter: " Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes." "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of [Hamas]...There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."

It's sole mission is to engage in violence and terror in order to destroy the state of Israel and replace it with an Islamic state.

As much as I despise the death and injury to civilians. I don't see any resolve to the conflict until Hamas is totally eliminated.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"Okay bozo, so if you were Prime Minister of Israel tell us what you would do?"

Both sides are going to have to compromise-- here's what Jimmy Carter has to say about it, and the ideas sound both reasonable and workable.

"AMY GOODMAN: Well, you’ve written a new book. It’s called We Can Have Peace in the Holy Land: A Plan that Will Work. What is that plan? JIMMY CARTER: Well, the plan is a diametric opposite from what is the trend now by Israel in the West Bank—and that is to make one state, one nation, all the way from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River—and that is the two-day solution, which is generally adopted by the United States government, the road map for the international community, the United Nations resolutions, and also unanimously by all twenty-two Arab nations. That is a two-state solution based on Israel’s withdrawal, basically to the 1967 borders, the sharing of Jerusalem and so forth. And that’s been spelled out and accepted for a long time. And so, I think that the plan that I outline in my book is one that has practical aspects of modification of the basic two-state solution that both sides can accept overwhelmingly. One of the key issues would be to leave about half of the Israeli settlers in Palestine where they are—that is, those nearest to Jerusalem—and swap them an equivalent amount of land, say, acre for acre, to be used for a corridor, a narrow corridor between the West Bank and Gaza, about thirty-five miles’ distance. And that could be used to make a train route or either a highway still to be controlled by Israel’s security. I discussed this particular plan with Ariel Sharon in January of 2005, and he agreed with me completely on it. "

For the rest of the interview--

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/11/former_us_president_jimmy_carter_we

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"As much as I despise the death and injury to civilians. I don't see any resolve to the conflict until Hamas is totally eliminated."

Well, that is exactly that same attitude that Hamas has towards Israel. In other words, they are mirror images of each other. The only difference being that Israel regularly kills 10 to 100 times as many Palestinians as vice-versa, and it's Israel that has a complete economic blockade on Palestinians, not vice-versa.

Sorry, but I don't see how such a double standard can ever lead to any peaceful solution. But for many here who love war so much, that's a desirable thing.

beawolf 5 years, 9 months ago

Bozo,

First you state "Both sides are going to have to compromise" Then you state "I don't see how such a double standard can ever lead to any peaceful solution."

You are correct. There will be no peaceful solution. Israel has honored the current cease fire agreement, yet Hamas continues bomb Israel daily.

By the way, the only fault with the Jimmy Carter solution is that Hamas will not capitulate. Back to square one.

If someone declares that they will attack you until you are dead, what is your recourse?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"There will be no peaceful solution. Israel has honored the current cease fire agreement, yet Hamas continues bomb Israel daily."

Not true-- they continue to blockade Gaza, and bomb the tunnels into Egypt daily.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"By the way, the only fault with the Jimmy Carter solution is that Hamas will not capitulate. Back to square one.

If someone declares that they will attack you until you are dead, what is your recourse?"

The Israeli government has exactly the same attitude towards Palestinians. If it's wrong for Hamas, why isn't it wrong for Israel?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

You're still kissing Dubya's a$$, Tom. What do you know know?

beawolf 5 years, 9 months ago

Bozo,

"The Israeli government has exactly the same attitude towards Palestinians. If it's wrong for Hamas, why isn't it wrong for Israel?"

This where you are wrong. How do you justify that statement? Do you honestly believe that Israel's intentions are the total elimination of all Palestinians? Do not confuse Palestinians with the Hamas.

jaywalker 5 years, 9 months ago

" The Israeli government has exactly the same attitude towards Palestinians. If it's wrong for Hamas, why isn't it wrong for Israel?"

That's nothing but BS. Israel would love to live in peace, they are not the instigators here. Cease fires exist, Hamas breaks 'em every single time. And bombing the tunnels that Hamas uses to smuggle in more rockets to fire at Israel isn't the same as Hamas sending rockets indiscriminately into Israeli neighborhoods.
You've spoken before how Israel needs to pull back to the past agreed upon boundaries, but you're only fooling yourself if you believe Hamas would then be satisfied and pacified. They'd rather continue the fight, their resolve invigorated from such capitulation, kill themselves and dozens of their own family and neighbors in the process because a higher body count, no matter on who's side, is 'victory' to them. Giving in to people who consider life to be of no value whatosoever is never an option.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

Intentions are a difficult thing to determine, beawolf, but the results of actions are not nearly as difficult to determine. And the simple fact is that Israel has eliminated far more Palestinians than vice-versa, and it's Israel which has nearly complete control over the economic lives of Palestinians, and not the other way around.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

You've demonstrated yet again your love of double standards, jaywalker.

jaywalker 5 years, 9 months ago

"You've demonstrated yet again your love of double standards, jaywalker."

Care to prove such? And you spouting off about anyone else's 'willful ignorance' is like George Wallace calling someone else a racist.

beawolf 5 years, 9 months ago

"And the simple fact is that Israel has eliminated far more Palestinians".. Bozo, I will not dispute that, but that is not the argument. It is also a fact that those casualties were a direct result of Hamas initiated attacks. If Hamas doesn't send bombs into Israel, those deaths do not occur.

"Intentions are a difficult thing to determine".. Not as regards Hamas. Their intentions are known.

" nearly complete control over the economic lives of Palestinians." .... Elimination of the Hamas threat would give the Palestinians the means to define and implement their own economic priorities. Human, financial and physical resources will grow, sustain itself and increase the welfare of the inhabitants living within its area. The Declaration of Principles signed between Israel and the PLO in 1995 have maintained that it is indeed possible to achieve economic viability.

The bottom line is that will never be peace as long as the Hamas have a foothold in Palestine. You can't ignore that fact. Truces, ceasefires, treaties, accords etc. etc are useless. Hamas has proved they will not abide by them.

beawolf 5 years, 9 months ago

Ocean, Get your facts straight. There are Economic Support Funds (ESF) and Foreign Military Financing (FMF). The current EMF is around $300M, the FMF $2.5B. To put it into perspective, that's less than what Iraq received.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"That's nothing but BS. Israel would love to live in peace,"

The far-right parties in Israel, particularly the ones who will likely form the next government, regularly express their desire to remove all Palestinians from both Israel and the occupied territories, and they also have no objections to killing as many of them as possible.

"they are not the instigators here. Cease fires exist, Hamas breaks 'em every single time."

Wrong. Both sides regularly break ceasefires, and it was Israel who was primarily responsible for breaking the one last fall. Israel is currently breaking the current "undeclared" ceasefire by continuing its nearly complete blockade of Gaza.

"And bombing the tunnels that Hamas uses to smuggle in more rockets to fire at Israel isn't the same as Hamas sending rockets indiscriminately into Israeli neighborhoods. "

They also use these tunnels to get food and medical supplies into Gaza-- items that Israel is currently greatly restricting by all other means of import.

"You've spoken before how Israel needs to pull back to the past agreed upon boundaries, but you're only fooling yourself if you believe Hamas would then be satisfied and pacified."

Hamas's intransigence is well known. But so is that of the Israeli government. But civilian populations on each side want peace, and are willing to compromise to get it. But as long as the US government rewards the conservative Israeli war mongers, Hamas will continue to receive the backing of Palestinians, because they see no other options available to them.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

beawolf-- You're clearly wedded to your double standard. I can only hope that for the sake of both the Palestinians and Israelis clearer thinking will prevail and cycle of violence can be broken.

jaywalker 5 years, 9 months ago

"and they also have no objections to killing as many of them as possible."

Re-he-he-eally? And YOU know this to be fact........how?

"Israel is currently breaking the current “undeclared” ceasefire by continuing its nearly complete blockade of Gaza"

Perhaps you need to look up the difference between a blockade and a ceasefire. They're not synonymous, bozo, nor does one have to end because the other has been implemented.

"They also use these tunnels to get food and medical supplies into Gaza— items that Israel is currently greatly restricting by all other means of import"

Bummer. Perhaps if they didn't shoot rockets indiscriminately into Israeli territory and worked out a peace agreement the blockade would be lifted and they wouldn't have to smuggle through tunnels. But I suppose that you think it's criminal for Israel not to allow them to circumvent their restrictions, restrictions which they hoped would bring about a peaceful solution instead of having to get physical.

" But as long as the US government rewards the conservative Israeli war mongers, Hamas will continue to receive the backing of Palestinians, because they see no other options available to them"

Right. If the U.S. stops aiding Israel militarily, Hamas will obviously just go away. And the color of the sky in your world is....?

A lengthy obfuscation, but apparently you cannot provide an example of my 'love for double standards'? C'mon, bozo, what's it gonna be? Can you respond directly or you just wanna go around throwin' veiled insults like a 12 year old?

beawolf 5 years, 9 months ago

Bozo,

I have no idea what double standard you are referring to. I did not support the Israeli counter offensive, never said I did, but there is a stark reality to the situation that you are ignoring. I only believe that there will be no peace as long as Hamas occupies Palestine.

"Hamas will continue to receive the backing of Palestinians"... this is a flat out lie. The Beit Sahour-based Palestinian Center for Public Opinion's latest poll, shows that Hamas is supported by only 27.8% of the population in the Gaza Strip, compared to 51.5% in November. This is rather significant due to the fact the public criticism of Hamas is a crime.

The PCPO poll also found that 86.1% of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and 89.6% in the West Bank supported a Palestinian-Israeli truce, yet the Hamas continue their bombing and refuse to negotiate.

jaywalker 5 years, 9 months ago

beawolf,

Don't expect bozo to back up the 'double standard' nonsense. He's throwin' the same BS my way. He's just pissed 'cuz you're right and he can't generalize his way around it.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"Perhaps you need to look up the difference between a blockade and a ceasefire."

A blockade has always been considered an act of war (except when Israel does it, apparently.)

"A lengthy obfuscation, but apparently you cannot provide an example of my 'love for double standards'?"

Oh but I have, but even if I hadn't there's really no need-- you've already done that well enough all by yourself. Generally speaking, when people have double standards, they are incapable of seeing them. That clearly describes you.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"I only believe that there will be no peace as long as Hamas occupies Palestine."

Interesting choice of words, considering that Hamas is made up of Palestinians. Anyway, this is your double standard. As long as only Palestinians are faulted for having elected a violent government, then no progress can be made. Israelis have likely just elected a government that is just as hateful and odious as Hamas-- except that the US will finance them to the tune of $3 billion a year, with the death and destruction in Gaza last year indicative of the results that can be expected in the near future.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"yet the Hamas continue their bombing and refuse to negotiate."

By the way, it's Israel who refuses to negotiate with Hamas.

jaywalker 5 years, 9 months ago

"A blockade has always been considered an act of war"

Yes, but that's not the argument. Israel is not violating a ceasefire by continuing a blockade. A ceasefire doesn't mean the 'war' is over, brain trust. .

"Oh but I have, but even if I hadn't ......when people have double standards, they are incapable of seeing them. That clearly describes you"

Excellent!! It's official! You've now completely withdrawn to an elementary school playground debate format. Faced with something you know you can't respond to 'cuz you were full of it in the first place, you retort with a deafening "Did too!" Would it make you feel better if I said "Nuh uh!"?
That's exceptionally weak, even by your standards, bozo. Now to figure out which is more sad, that entire last post of yours or the probability that you're not completely embarassed for hitting 'submit'.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 9 months ago

"Yes, but that's not the argument. Israel is not violating a ceasefire by continuing a blockade."

It's precisely the argument. You want to claim that Israel can do whatever they want, because, well, because, well, because they are Israel (can you spell double standard?)

BTW, you can attempt to insult me all you want. The fact remains that you have a double standard. You've exhibited it in every single post on this thread, and unfortunately for you, the software here won't allow you to remove it.

jaywalker 5 years, 9 months ago

"Israelis have likely just elected a government that is just as hateful and odious as Hamas—"

Again...... for like the fourth time........ you know this how? So it's your contention, with no proof nor precedent whatsoever, that the newly elected officials in Israel will begin an unprovoked assault on the Palestinian civilians, shooting explosive devices over the border in attempt to kill anything that moves, with no regard for an actual military target or a schoolbus; recruit, train, and arm 'martyrs' to blow themselves and as many non-military personnel as they can to kingdom come; use their own countrymen, women, and children as human shields and look upon their deaths as fodder for propoganda-------????

You've just taken someone's political affiliation and used it as basis to label them "hateful and odious". Ya gotta get out of that basement from time to time, man. Sunlight does a body (and mind) good.

beawolf 5 years, 9 months ago

Jaywalker,

I believe your right. To quote Sgt Fury "Nuff said".

jaywalker 5 years, 9 months ago

"It's precisely the argument."

Are you really this obtuse? Let's review your assertion: "Israel is currently breaking the current “undeclared” ceasefire by continuing its nearly complete blockade of Gaza."

From the cheapseats- they aren't breaking a ceasefire by continuing a blockade!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT is the argument. You lose.

"You want to claim that Israel can do whatever they want, because, well, because, well, because they are Israel (can you spell double standard?)

You can continue to throw out the same tired tripe, but until you actually cite an example it's just that......tripe. I have never, ever, stated literally nor in some concealed manner that "Israel can do whatever they want". And just because you wanna believe that's how I feel don't make it so, Forrest.

"The fact remains that you have a double standard. You've exhibited it in every single post on this thread"

Then cite it!! If it's in every single post I would think it'd be pretty easy to prove, unless, well, you're you.

jaywalker 5 years, 9 months ago

beawolf,

And you're right, as well. 'Nuff said sums it up, I'm done with this clown.

TacoBob 5 years, 9 months ago

A certain poster here will get his wish for equity any day now. There will a direct hit with one of these rockets and the death toll will 'even out' or better yet, take out more Israeli's than the tally on either side. It is just a matter of time until the rockets or an even more potent weapon is used on Israel and there is some major, major destruction. Until then, sit on your hands and take it. Just let them continue the target practice and building of the arsenal stockpiles. Remember, these folks have promised the total destruction of Israel no matter how long it takes.

Tick, tick.....

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