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Archive for Saturday, February 28, 2009

Hiroshima survivor to speak March 8

February 28, 2009

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A Hiroshima survivor will speak about her experiences March 8 at the Nunemaker Center, 1506 Engel Road.

Sachiko Masuoka was 18 years old when Hiroshima, her home town, was destroyed by an atomic bomb. She lost her brother and her sister in the explosion. Masuoka moved to the United States in 1962. She has been talking about her experiences publicly for only the past couple of years.

Masuoka and translator, Yuki Miyamoto, will speak at 3 p.m. as part of the opening ceremony for a new Hiroshima exhibit at the center. The exhibit will be on display through March 15.

The exhibit is free and open to the public. For more information, visit ecmku.org.

Comments

madmike 5 years, 1 month ago

Famous last words..."What the hell was that"? - Mayor of Hiroshima!

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

"that final palace coup was covered in detail on the History Channel, too."


Yeah, I let the corporate media tell me all I need to know about history all the time! ROFL.

"... so if an invasion took place then it seems Logrithsmack would not have been born."


Hunh?

"and I love how Logrithsmack thinks himself smarter than Truman! Truman and other leaders thought through the demonstration* use of a nuke but did not trust the japanese government to allow accurate reporting to its populus of the intensity of the nuclear weapons. only a few were going to be available to drop. and if your “demonstration” were to work, the average folk and the men in uniform of japan would have needed accurate information."


OK, so Truman rejected the idea. How does that mean I think I'm smarter than Truman. What would it have hurt to have shown what we had to the Japanese rather than dropping the bomb on two civilian populations? Truman makes an assumption that it wouldn't have mattered. That's a major assumption that cost 200,000 lives approx. (more if you count the radiation poisoning). What if we had shown it to them and they would have surrendered. Bozo makes the case that they were already in the process of surrender. For all intents and purposes, most sane Japanese at the time realized the war had been lost. I mean, you can only take denial so far. After they lost Okinawa - come on!

I'm not sure how seriously I should take any of the argments advanced by the Gnome, but I defer to the mighty invincability of the History Channel. Yep - spoonfed history mixed up with commercials - that's a really reliable info source you've got there!

God bless American and everywhere else!

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

"While I respect (immensely) the intelligence of Mr. Alperovitz, I believe that he and the other “revisionist historians” see things that might not be there. Their ideas and theories are often convoluted and in this particular instance Mr. Alperovitz leaves out important facts that don't fit with his theory"

YetiSpeaks-- I don't think Alperovitz is any more "revisionist" than the historians who come up with different conclusions than he does. And while he, like all historians, filters information on some level to support his conclusions, they can't be discounted off-hand without disregarding the considerable information that supports it.

"The facts are that there is substantial information that is ambiguous enough to be forwarded in any direction. That's the great thing about history. We can debate about it but there are only a handful of men who knew exactly what went on and they are all gone."

This is the real truth of history, particularly in this instance. While the generally accepted version that says the bombs ended the war, and prevented the need for a very costly invasion, at the very least, the true story (which we'll likely never know in its entirety) is much more complicated than that.

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Linda Endicott 5 years, 1 month ago

I fail to understand why all the armchair generals keep rehashing the old, old details of WWII, ad nauseum...what exactly does that have to do with this woman?

She will be giving a speech on what it was like to experience and live through a nuclear attack...and as far as I can tell, this is solely related to the opening of a museum exhibit about said attack...why do so many of you keep insisting on shoving stats about WWII down everyone's throats?

If this woman has any motive at all, it seems to be to talk about the horrors, and to tell everyone that NO country should ever use nuclear weapons again...

She was a civilian, not a representative of the Japanese government of the time...she was caught up in the horrors of war, through no fault of her own...just the same as the soldiers at Pearl Harbor went through horror, through no fault of their own...

No matter what the Japanese or American governments may have done to each other in the past, or the supposed reasons why, it does not in any way lessen the pain and suffering that both American soldiers and Japanese civilians went through during WWII...

Get over it and get over yourselves...

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bearded_gnome 5 years, 1 month ago

that final palace coup was covered in detail on the History Channel, too.


from Log: Lots of us had fathers and grandfathers and great grandfathers that fought in WWII. That doesn't make our opinions any more true or patriotic.

okay, so if an invasion took place then it seems Logrithsmack would not have been born.

Womanwarrior, you ref "glimmer in your daddy's eye" or imagine in "your grandfather's eye" a lot of those dads and grandads would have died invading japan. many more, 6million, japanese would have died, men women and children.

and I love how Logrithsmack thinks himself smarter than Truman! Truman and other leaders thought through the demonstration* use of a nuke but did not trust the japanese government to allow accurate reporting to its populus of the intensity of the nuclear weapons. only a few were going to be available to drop. and if your "demonstration" were to work, the average folk and the men in uniform of japan would have needed accurate information.

again, the japanese did far far worse in china. ask some chinese today, today, and they say "why did america stop at only two nukes on japan?

and finally, marion and theyetispeaks are absolutely correct. there was no actual attempt to settle by japan. in the days after the first nuke, the japanese cabinet couldn't even agree then to sue for peace! indeed army officers were ready to overthrow the emperor in order to continue the fight. the word I read describing the japanese cabinet at that time was "paralysis." so, people who want to flog america for dropping the nukes obviously have other motives. and they don't care that far more than ten times as many would have died without the nukes.

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/hamby.htm

"The major questions about the events of the summer of 1945 are for the most part moral, or at least nonempirical.

Who can disprove a belief that any resolution of World War II would have been preferable to the atomic solution?

Who can say with absolute assurance that the second bomb was necessary?

Who can prove that it was necessary to drop the second bomb just three days after the first?

Who will ever know for certain that Japan would not have been forced by hunger, fuel shortages, and infrastructure collapse to surrender before an invasion?

But most of us also have talked to veterans, British as well as Americans, recounting their roles in the planned invasion of Malaya or Japan and ending with the conclusion, "The atomic bomb saved my life."

Such beliefs, reflecting the sentiments of men who lived and breathed a desperate situation that we can scarcely comprehend, were also part of the historical reality of 1945.

The documents do not refute them, and historical method does not require us to ignore them.

Alonzo L. Hamby

Ohio University

Athens, Ohio

Copyright Organization of American Historians Sep 1997"

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

cont'd (Whew!):

Just after Ida left Mori's room, Maj. Hatanaka and Capt. Uehara entered and learned Mori had rejected their demand that he order the coup. Then they killed him.

Capt. Nobuo Kitabatake, commander of one of the three Guards Division battalions that took over the palace, wrote in his memoir: "If the Imperial Guards Division became the first to rise in revolt, it would embolden the entire military to rise, thus leading Japan to continue the war."

After the forged order to gain control of the palace was issued at around 2 a.m., Koga and Hatanaka entered the palace, tricking Col. Toyojiro Haga, commander of the 1,000 Imperial Guards on the grounds, into believing the war minister would soon call on the Emperor to persuade him to scrap his decision to surrender.

The soldiers started searching for the surrender records. Capt. Kiichiro Aiura, a leader of a machinegun company with the Imperial Guards Second Regiment, was one of the officers ordered to join the search.

"I was ordered by Maj. Koga to go to the Imperial Household Ministry building and search for the records of the (surrender decree) along with Capt. Shinichi Kitamura, who had already been looking," he said.

The rebels searched for the recording for 90 minutes, but to no avail.

The plotters suffered a setback when Col. Kazuo Mizutani, chief of staff of the Guards Division, escaped to the Eastern Defense Command and alerted Gen. Tanaka.

At 4 a.m., Tanaka arrived at the barracks of the Imperial Guards Division and persuaded Col. Taro Watanabe, commander of its First Regiment, who was on the brink of sending 1,000 reinforcements to the palace, to disperse his soldiers.

Tanaka then summoned Haga, informed him that Mori had been murdered and that the occupation order was a sham, and persuaded him to order his troops to stand down.

After a furious Haga confronted Koga and Hatanaka, they left the palace and killed themselves. Haga had all of the troops pulled out of the palace at around 8 a.m.

At noon, the surrender recording was broadcast, and the nation heard the Emperor's voice announcing Japan's capitulation.

Brig. Gen. Bonner Fellers, an adviser to Gen. Douglas MacArthur, wrote in 1947 of the broadcast, "This historically unprecedented surrender unquestionably shortened the war by many months and prevented an estimated 450,000 American battle casualties."

The Japan Times: Friday, Aug. 12, 2005"

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

cont'd:

"An hour later, Okazawa and the others took the rough-planed coffins to the commander's room.

Then, "2nd Lt. Sasaki, loosening his sword, told us he would hack us to death if we said anything to anybody about what we were going to see upon entering the room," he said.

"When I entered the room, I found the bodies of Mori and his brother-in-law, Lt. Col. (Michinori) Shiraishi," he said. It was only at that moment that he realized the boxes he had made were coffins, he reckoned.

Shiraishi, staff officer of the Hiroshima-based Second General Army, had come to Tokyo the previous day and called on Mori, his wife's older brother, before he was to fly back to Hiroshima.

"My estimate is that the number of soldiers who entered the palace premises was more than 1,000. . . . Those who invaded the Imperial Household Ministry building to seize the recordings of the rescript numbered between 40 and 50," Masahisa Enai, a former corporal in the Imperial Guards Division's Second Regiment and a coup participant, said in a telephone interview.

Enai, 88, became an Asahi Shimbun journalist after the war.

At the Aug. 14 supreme council meeting, Hirohito asked the councilors to prepare the capitulation decree.

"If we continue the war, Japan will be totally annihilated. If even a small number of Japanese people's seed is allowed to remain . . . there is a glimmer of hope of an eventual Japanese recovery. . . . I am willing to go before the microphone," he said.

In the subsequently recorded announcement, he said: "I have ordered the government to communicate to the governments of the United States, Great Britain, China and the Soviet Union that our empire accepts the provisions of their joint declaration" issued from Potsdam near Berlin on July 26.

However, despite a series of military defeats in the Pacific, including in the Philippines and Okinawa, the Aug. 6 atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Aug. 9 bombing of Nagasaki, and even Japan's dispatch of a cablegram on Aug. 10 accepting the Potsdam declaration, there were still plenty of military fanatics who refused to surrender.

Masataka Ida, a coup leader, said in a 380-page memoir that he tried to persuade Mori to order his Guards Division to occupy the palace at a meeting that began at around 12:40 a.m. on Aug. 15.

"Your excellency, if we obey the Emperor's order, the emperor system could be abolished. . . . A plan has been devised to kill you, though it depends on your response," Ida told Mori.

The lieutenant colonel quoted Mori as responding: "I am prepared for the worst. I am risking my life to defend the palace."

cont'd:

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

cont'd:

"On Aug. 14, the government of then Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki decided to accept the Allied demand for unconditional surrender. The decision was made at a meeting of the six-member Supreme Council for the Direction of the War, including Suzuki and War Minister Korechika Anami, in the presence of Emperor Hirohito.

At around 2 a.m. the next morning, Maj. Hidemasa Koga, Guards Division staff officer and son-in-law of Gen. Hideki Tojo, the prime minister at the time of the 1941 Pearl Harbor attack, issued a bogus order for the 1,000 soldiers to occupy the palace, seize all gates and cut all telephone lines except one linking the palace to the Guards headquarters.

The order was aimed at isolating the Emperor from the outside, preventing him from asking the government or any forces inclined toward peace, including the Eastern Defense Command, for help, and toppling the Suzuki administration to form a new government led by War Minister Anami.

The Eastern Command, led by Gen. Tanaka, was in charge of defending the capital.

The coup leaders affixed the official seal of murdered Division Commander Mori to copies of the order, tricking the division's field and company officers into believing it was authentic.

In addition, a 60-man company of the Guards Division's First Regiment occupied NHK, then based in Tokyo's Uchisaiwaicho, and prohibited all broadcasts. NHK was then 1.5 km away from the Imperial Household Ministry, the predecessor of the Imperial Household Agency.

"I heard three bangs when I was on sentry duty in an air-raid shelter outside the room of Division Commander Mori," said Ikuo Okazawa, who was a 24-year-old lance corporal in the division's Second Regiment at the time of the assassination.

Okazawa, now 84, claimed he initially thought the three bangs might have come from a motorcycle being started nearby.

Shortly after the shots, 2nd Lt. Tamiharu Sasaki came to the shelter and ordered Okazawa and three other soldiers to make "a pair of wooden boxes large enough for a person," as well as lids.

"We went to a nearby First Regiment barracks, and tore up the floorboards to make the boxes," Okazawa, a former legislator of the town assembly of Kamigori, Hyogo Prefecture, said in a recent interview."

cont'd:

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

bozo also ignores the last minute attempeted "Palace Coup" by radically die-hard Japanese officers; from the Tokyo Times:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20050812f2.html

For the click-disabled among you; the citation i its entirety:

"Generals foiled Aug. 15 palace coup

Pair's actions credited with ensuring Hirohito surrender decree By MUTSUO FUKUSHIMA Kyodo News Hours before Emperor Hirohito decreed Japan's World War II surrender 60 years ago, two Imperial army generals foiled a coup attempt by a dozen officers to block the historic broadcast.

On Aug. 15, 1945, nearly 1,000 soldiers occupied the Imperial Palace grounds for six hours from 2 a.m., aiming to seize two 25-cm records of the reading of the surrender decree and blocking its noon broadcast that day.

The actions of Lt. Gen. Takeshi Mori, commander of the First Imperial Guards Division, and Gen. Shizuichi Tanaka, commander of the Eastern Defense Command, enabled the monarch, known posthumously as Emperor Showa, to announce over the radio to the Japanese people and armed forces the nation's unconditional surrender.

The broadcast paved the way for the Allied Powers to occupy Japan without serious turmoil.

Emperor Hirohito made the recording at around 11:30 p.m. on Aug. 14, and Chamberlain Yoshihiro Tokugawa put the two records in a small safe in the first-floor office of the monarch's retinue, hidden from sight with piles of papers.

At around 1:40 a.m. on Aug. 15, Mori, 52, was shot by Maj. Kenji Hatanaka and then hacked to death by Capt. Shigetaro Uehara at his headquarters after rejecting their demand to order his 4,000-man division to revolt against the government and seize the palace.

"Mori rejected the officers' demands to order his Guards Division to rise up in revolt, because he had recognized the importance of establishing peace with the Allied Powers to prevent the Japanese people from being destroyed by a continued war," historian Kazutoshi Hando said in a recent interview.

"Had the broadcast of the surrender rescript been blocked, the Japanese military would have kept up its fighting spirit, and the armed forces would have carried on on many battlefields," he said."

cont'd:

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TheYetiSpeaks 5 years, 1 month ago

bozo- While I respect (immensely) the intelligence of Mr. Alperovitz, I believe that he and the other "revisionist historians" see things that might not be there. Their ideas and theories are often convoluted and in this particular instance Mr. Alperovitz leaves out important facts that don't fit with his theory such as the handful of takeover attempts by the military establishment of Japan on Hirohito after the bombs were dropped which would indicate the unwillingness of Japan to surrender. You say that there is substantial evidence that supports his position. The facts are that there is substantial information that is ambiguous enough to be forwarded in any direction. That's the great thing about history. We can debate about it but there are only a handful of men who knew exactly what went on and they are all gone. Once again, I have deep respect for the academics of Mr Alperovitz, I just believe that the revisionists tend to take some leaps that are a stretch.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 1 month ago

And thanks, Marion, sorry I missed you...

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RoeDapple 5 years, 1 month ago

Thanks log, and I'll try to be nice (the rest of the day, anyway)

And by the way, even if we don't agree, you keep me thinking

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

Aside from being really relevant, Marion it was also petty and idiotic. But entirely in character.

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

Bozo; I suspect that you would not defend your own children against an attacker, so your opinions lack validity.

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

Roe,

It was his grandfather, sorry. And I do honor your father's service. And I'm not lying. About the grandfather or my respect for your dad's service.

God bless America (and Japan)!

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

"At times written in the tone of an expose, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb is a lawyer's brief, repetitively citing evidence that supports its position, ignoring anything that does not."

The link I gave above, and also below, is Alperovitz's response to your link, Marion. And the simple fact is that there is substantial evidence that supports his positions.

http://www.doug-long.com/ga1.htm

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tumbilweed 5 years, 1 month ago

logrithmic- although i do agree with alot of what you say, putting your "god bless you"s at the end of an angry rant just looks mighty passive aggressive.

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

cont'd:

"We ourselves must firmly resolve to terminate the war.... Is there any meaning in showing that our country has reserve strength for a war of resistance, or in sacrificing the lives of hundreds of thousands of conscripts and millions of other innocent residents of cities and metropolitan areas?

Rebuked for his insubordination, Sato was warned against giving any indication that Japan was prepared to surrender unconditionally.Just possibly, Truman and other American policy makers who read this and similar exchanges might have taken them as signals to offer some concessions, but it seems more plausible to read them as indications that Japan was determined to fight fanatically on to a bloody end.

In a communication to H-Diplo, Alperovitz has asserted that space considerations made it impossible to devote extensive attention to the Japanese side. One must note, however, that a full and accurate treatment would provide scant support for his argument."

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

At times written in the tone of an expose, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb is a lawyer's brief, repetitively citing evidence that supports its position, ignoring anything that does not. For example, its generalizations about public opinion make no mention of a Gallup poll on the future of the Japanese emperor, conducted June 1-5, 1945; 70 percent of the respondents favored either execution, trial, life imprisonment, or exile; 7 percent were willing to keep him on his throne as a figurehead. It is inconceivable that the author and his associates could have been unaware of this frequently cited survey. In the endnotes, they refer to other polls just a few pages away in the same reference volume.

At another point the book quotes as if it were accurate a passage from Newsweek (July 30, 1945): "Behind that curtain [of propaganda]Japan had put forward at least one definite offer. Fearing the results of Russian participation in the war, Tokyo transmitted to Generalissimo Joseph Stalin the broad terms on which it professed willingness to settle all scores."

The "broad terms" are never defined. In fact, they did not exist. Japanese approaches to the Soviet Union began in mid-July with what Truman in his diary called a "telegram from [the] Jap Emperor asking for peace." Alperovitz and other atomic revisionists have attached great importance to this communication, which did have Emperor Hirohito's personal interest. Yet Alperovitz's own summary and quotation shows that it contained no more than the emperor's hope that in order to end suffering the war might "be quickly terminated." It then went on to express Japan's resolve "to fight on with all its strength" so long as the United States and Great Britain insisted on unconditional surrender. It concluded by asking the Soviet Union to receive Prince Fumimaro Konoye as a special envoy. Because the Japanese neither presented an agenda nor specified any basis for discussion, both Washington and Moscow dismissed the proposal as meaningless and perhaps a stalling tactic to prevent Soviet intervention.

Alperovitz refers frequently to the subsequent diplomatic correspondence between Japan's foreign minister Shigenori Togo and his ambassador to the Soviet Union, Naotake Sato, an exchange of enormous importance because United States intelligence intercepted, decoded, and made it available to American policy makers. One would never know from this account that Sato-safe from the threat of assassination and perhaps with a more realistic perspective than his embattled superiors in Tokyo-warned Togo from the start that the initiative to the Soviet Union would be rebuffed and that unconditional surrender was Japan's only option. On July 12, driven by a sense of urgency and foreboding, he cabled Togo:

cont'd:

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

TheYetiSpeaks-- maybe you should look into it a little further--

http://www.doug-long.com/ga1.htm

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RoeDapple 5 years, 1 month ago

"BTW, one of my closest friends dad stormed the beach at Normandy."

Now we know you are a liar. The poison you spew wouldn't allow anyone to get close.

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TheYetiSpeaks 5 years, 1 month ago

Bozo- I hold a history degree from a pretty liberal college and consider myself, in general, a student of history, and your remarks should be labeled as conspiracy theory at best. I am the first to say question your government and dig deep to find true history but your cynicism is astounding.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 1 month ago

Once again your attention span is so short you can only remember a small portion of my post. What about the first three sentences?

"And again. Japan was developing atomic weapon capabilities and were about to conduct their own tests. Does anybody here really doubt that the country that started this war with the U.S. would hesitate to use those weapons to dominate the country that was about to beat them anyway?"

What kind of spin can you put on that?

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

Here's an irony. The U.S. wants Japan to continue providing naval support for its war on Afghanistan/Pakistan. Seems we can be allies now - but still how deep and dark grudges. Really sad.

May the light of the one shine on you!

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

And before you start with your derogatory remarks about my father, he would be the first to defend what each and every one of you have to say here, if he were still with us. His words about his experience, “It was awful what we were doing to each other over there. But it had to be done.”


Lots of us had fathers and grandfathers and great grandfathers that fought in WWII. That doesn't make our opinions any more true or patriotic.

Only a douchebag would suggest that. That's not what you're suggesting is it?

BTW, one of my closest friends dad stormed the beach at Normandy. Every single person in his platoon was killed. He was shot three times but still took out an enemy machine gun platform and knotched 17 killed. He too would defend everyone's freedom of speech.

That still does not make the murder of nearly 200,000 civilians by the U.S. military ok.

You'll have to do better than that with me.

God bless America!

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

The lack of knowledge of history among the Pseudo-liberal/Neo-socialists is both astonishing and appalling.


Ah the bombastic reply of a complete ignoramus....

God bless America!

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

RoeDapple:

I know that I speak for many members of this forum when I write, "Thanks to your father for his service to this great nation!"

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madmike 5 years, 1 month ago

Logrithmis is about as dumb as a bag of rocks when it comes to talk abour anything in the military arena. A shining example of neo-socialism!

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RoeDapple 5 years, 1 month ago

And again. Japan was developing atomic weapon capabilities and were about to conduct their own tests. Does anybody here really doubt that the country that started this war with the U.S. would hesitate to use those weapons to dominate the country that was about to beat them anyway? My father suffered a gunshot wound to the shoulder in 1943 and shrapnel wounds in 1944 while fighting in the Philippines.The atomic bombs were dropped while he was recuperating in Australia. He was scheduled to return to the war in 2 weeks. Instead he was sent home. Many of those dead civilians were involved in the production of Japans war machine.

Cry me a river, those bombs saved more American soldiers lives than they took from Japan.

And before you start with your derogatory remarks about my father, he would be the first to defend what each and every one of you have to say here, if he were still with us. His words about his experience, "It was awful what we were doing to each other over there. But it had to be done."

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

The lack of knowledge of history among the Pseudo-liberal/Neo-socialists is both astonishing and appalling.

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

Another way to avoid dropping the bomb on these cities?

Under a flag of truce - escorting the high Japanese military command to an area in the Pacific Ocean and demonstrating the power of the bomb to them and their Emperor.

To use Pearl Harbor as a justification for this war crime is really stupid.

But then the rightwing is stupid as we both know.

God bless America!

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

Boxo,

Yep. Another major war crime.

The rabid rightwing falls all over itself based on the simple "revenge" motive. We killed many times the amount of their military than they killed at Pearl Harbor.

There's no doubt that it was a vicious war. But the firebombings of cities in Germany and Japan near the end when it all but over was especially vicious. And the dropping of an Atomic bomb on a two civilian-populated cities? Unforgivable and forever a bright red stain on the red white and blue.

Ranks right up there with Wounded Knee!

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justfornow 5 years, 1 month ago

Bozo your misinformed or full of $hit.....or both.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

The Japanese were in negotiations for a full surrender when the bombs were dropped. The war was already essentially over. The main reason they were dropped was because of the fear that the Soviet Union would invade and occupy at least part of Japan, although the desire to punish Japan, and to have a full-out, real-world test of the nukes also played a part in the decision.

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ArumerZwarteHoop 5 years, 1 month ago

Not surprised you are a fan of monarchies logy, most libs are.

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

Logrithmic: Barefoot Gen is probably at the library. Grave of the Fireflies, maybe at Liberty, but no idea, I bought mine at GameGuy about 4 years ago.


Thanks. I'll check them out. Hope it doesn't further my descent into insanity (LOL).

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

Ah, the rabid rightwing - defending the massacre of innocents.

Whose to say whether many of the people who died when the U.S. ruthlessly dropped atomic weapons on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki even supported the Japanese war effort?

About 40% of Americans did not support the criminal invasion of Iraq by our country's armed forces.

And the wholesale murder of innocents is a war crime. In fact, McNamera said in the Fog of War that the U.S. committed war crimes against the Japanese, with its wholesale bombing of civilian cities, but since the U.S. won the war, its leaders, including that scumbag Truman, were not prosecuted.

Finally, the United States helped to overthrow the monarchy of Hawaii so it could have the islands. The monarchy had stood in the way of a U.S. takeover of the islands. Once removed, the junta in charge paved the way for Hawaii to become a U.S. territory and later a U.S. state. Clinton even signed an apology approved by the Congress for the U.S. role in the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy.

http://motherearthtravel.com/united_states/honolulu/history.htm

From link:

"By the late 1800s, native Hawaiians, seeing clearly that their nation was coming increasingly under the influence of western businessmen, petitioned the Queen for the new constitution to restore more power to the Hawaiian monarchy. This was the catalyst and the call to action for the opposition and on January 17, 1893, Honolulu businessmen, supported by U.S. Marines, overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii. A provisional government was declared and immediately recognized by John Stevens, the American Minister to Hawaii. Pineapple baron, Sandford Dole was appointed president of the provisional government. The years of The Republic of Hawaii lasted from 1893 to 1898 when the United States annexed Hawaii and it became a territory of the United States."

Interestingly enough, Pearl Harbor became a U.S. navy base in 1899.

Does any of this justify the Japanese attack? No.

But it does raise questions about our authority to "own" the island and have a military base there in the first place.

But of course, nothing deters the right's thinking that no matter what our government does short of impinging on a person's right to own weapons is patriotic and just.

May God bless!

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jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

Logrithmic: Barefoot Gen is probably at the library. Grave of the Fireflies, maybe at Liberty, but no idea, I bought mine at GameGuy about 4 years ago.

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jafs 5 years, 1 month ago

crazy,

Thank you - I was going to write your post, but now I don't have to!

I'll just add one thing - the atomic bombs killed many civilians.

In wartime, we generally make a distinction between killing combatants and civilians.

And, to underscore another point - does the fact that we're at war with Iraq (a war which many in our country oppose) mean that we'd deserve to be nuked by them, killing many civilians (who would probably be against the war)?

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logrithmic 5 years, 1 month ago

A manga called Barefoot Gen. An anime called Grave of the Fireflies.


Where can you find these locally?

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TheYetiSpeaks 5 years, 1 month ago

Just a couple of thoughts while reading the article and responses. 1. More people were killed in the firebombing of Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945 then in either bomb drop on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, yet you never hear as much about it. 2. My own opinions on the matter range from my compassionate side(What a horrible thing to have to go through either dying or living and knowing that most people you knew are dead.) to my practical side (As other posters said, Japan did open the door to their own punishment). I guess, finally, I am comforted in the knowledge that had the U.S. not dropped the bombs that many, many more American soldiers and Japanese would have payed the ultimate price.
Sometimes there is no right side and wrong side, there's just the side that minimizes the damage that will be done.

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jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"you're welcome. it is just sad how the left/america haters conveniently forget Unit 731, what japan did in China before pearl harbor, or the massive cost of invasion without the nukes."

I think maybe it's a little more problematic when the right gets reminded (wait, they generally don't know in the first place!) that in the mid 1860s we forced open Japan's country with battleships against their will because they had trade goods we wanted, which sparked a bloody civil war that toppled their government within 10 years.

And the West did a whole lot worse damage to China when, say, Britain intentionally addicted a quarter of their male population to Opium, also because they had trade goods that Britain wanted, and was tired of paying silver straight out to get.

But yeah, throw all the blame at those crazy Asians. And don't bother to read anything past what you want to believe.

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jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

Two things worth looking at.

A manga called Barefoot Gen. An anime called Grave of the Fireflies.

Before anyone starts a war, they should be required to experience both of those.

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jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

Wow, did the craziness that is inner-Marion just get thrown out in the open or what?

"She is talking about her experience living through a major historic event. Why are you assuming she has any other motive?"

Because if you can't link it to partisan BS, then it has no place in the LJWorld online.

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Linda Endicott 5 years, 1 month ago

Live in the past much, Marion?

Were the Japanese wrong to attack the U.S. in 1941? Sure they were. And they already paid the price for that, long ago. Most of the people who had anything to do with starting or continuing WWII are long dead now...and I doubt that you were very old at all at the time, if you were even born yet...

But of course you are a wonderful example of the first rule of war...dehumanize your enemy...

Danimal, I have seen many documentaries that talked to the survivors of Bataan and Okinawa, and the beaches at Normandy, etc., etc., etc....where have you been for the last 60 years of TV programming?

Citizens of a country have little to no control over what their leaders or military do...does Iraq come to mind for any of you? This woman survived a nuclear attack (deserved or undeserved is quite beside the point), during a time when we were teaching our own children in schools that just ducking under their desks and covering their heads would be enough to protect them during a nuclear attack...

She is Japanese, but she is not the Japanese government, of then or now...she was not responsible for the choices made by the Japanese government at the time...anymore than all you gung-ho Americans are responsible for all the choices that the American government has made through the decades...but if you want to play that game, I'm sure many of the posters here can find plenty of American snafus to personally hold you responsible for...

The war is over...live with it...this old woman survived something that she did not cause, and was not responsible for...she survived horrors that you have never had to live with...all you fine, brave, armchair warriors...

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Danimal 5 years, 1 month ago

I think that it's valuable to record the memoirs of war, but I think it's also important to remember why we fought the wars. We never would have dropped nukes on Japan, or incendiaries on Germany, if we hadn't been attacked first. It would be nice to see a Bataan survivor or someone who fought on Okinawa be given this kind of forum.

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AjiDeGallina 5 years, 1 month ago

Leave it to Marion and roedapple to bash an old lady who survived the atomic bomb.

You 2 are the very lowest forms of life and have failed American.

We are ashamed of you.

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womanwarrior 5 years, 1 month ago

Did anyone forget to tell you the war is over. Most of you weren't even a glimmer in your parent's eyes when the war happened. Heck, some of your parents weren't even born yet. I like to hear oral history from any side. First hand accounts of what happened are always interesting. What boring people you must be.

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bearded_gnome 5 years, 1 month ago

you're welcome. it is just sad how the left/america haters conveniently forget Unit 731, what japan did in China before pearl harbor, or the massive cost of invasion without the nukes.

they also hate to be reminded of the "rape of Nanking," too.

wonder if anybody will ask this lady about those four issues.

also, you notice, she's lived in the U.S. for 47 years and she is speaking through an interpreter. kinda makes you wonder just why for real did she come to the u.s. apparently not to be an american.

we've known the far-left-fringie position of ECM for a long time!

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

Thank you for your kind comment bearded_gnome!

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

America haters abound around here!

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

American POWs held by the poor nuked-on Japanese:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_04/americaPOW_468x376.jpg

Before the Japanese were nuked!

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bearded_gnome 5 years, 1 month ago

Sounds more like you're interested in mocking whatever she may have to say, HS. But that's OK, we all know that the mass murder of 100,000 people is just a big joke, yuk, yuk. ---bonzai

I can't believe you are really that shallow!

first the number you want for this quote is higher than what you wrote. second, do you know how many chinese the japanese killed in china before Pearl Harbor? take that number and multiply by 4! second, marion is right about unit 731, and what he didn't tell you is this: today there are people in northern china sickend and killed by the work of U731. you probably don't know how many "logs" were killed at U731, look it up; "logs" was the term the japanese in U731 used for chinese they would kill in brutal experiments.
finally, you obviously wish the nukes had not been dropped. okay then, what happened if that were the case: 2million americans died invading japan islands; 1million brits and colonials; 6million japanese died. total: 9million people killed by war. pretty humanitarian those two nukes, weren't they?

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

Wanna know how Japanese think?

Go here:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=bataan+death+march&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=QgaqSczUCpCNngfT2_j0Dw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title

They would do it to you or your kids.

I like this one especially:

http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/behead-us-pilot.gif

Japanese officer about to behead an American prisoner of war.

Yeah.

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ArumerZwarteHoop 5 years, 1 month ago

she was probably making weapons that were killing GIs

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

Hardcore_Socialist (Anonymous) says…

George, Google her name and read more about her. It is more than experience, there is a motive.

I've heard she is quite good, a radiant speaker with a special glow about her. She lights up a room when she enters. I'm interested in seeing what she has to say."

Marion writes:

Who cares?

Her beloved Emperor was complicit in starting a war in which over 400,000 AMERICANS died !

Biosolids on her!

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

How much is this person being paid to whine?

And where is the money coming from?

Are we paying survivors of the Batann Death March to speak?

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

Poor, poor picked on Japanese!

Unit 731:

http://www.ww2pacific.com/unit731.html

From the citation!:

"Japanese Imperial Army's Unit 731 killed thousands of Chinese and Russians held prisoner in Japanese-occupied Manchuria, in experiments to develop chemical and biological weapons.

In the autumn of 1945, MacArthur acceded to granting immunity to members of Unit 731 in exchange for data of research on biological warfare. "The value to the U.S. of Japanese BW data is of such importance to national security as to far outweigh the value accruing from war crimes' prosecution." The BW information obtained from Japanese sources should be retained in 'top secret' intelligence channels and not be employed as war crimes evidence and not be fallen into the Soviet hands. The State Department disagreed over a two year period and the topic simply disappeared.

Why did the US lose interest in pursuing the issue of war criminals? China became communist, Japan was a required base for operations in Korea, and Japan became a major trading partner and economic power in the East."

Survived the perfectly legitimate bombing of a military target?

Good for you!

Stop whining!

You were lucky!

Forget about Japanese plans to bomb the USA with not only conventional but atomic bombs, as well?

Dropped on your head as a child or just a USA hater?

Yeah; you and your "Emperor" all the way!

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 1 month ago

Oh, please!

I am so tired of hearing about "Hiroshima Survivors"!

The Japanese started a war, they got their a**es kicked with weaponry avialable at the time and now walk around looking like martyrs.

Gimmee a break and to H*ll with them!

Talk to the current Emperor and ask him about Hirohito's complicity in starting the Second World War!

Hey, Japanese!

You started biosolids that you could not win or finish and you got pounded!

Get over it!

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Motivation 5 years, 1 month ago

You are all SICK!! This woman made it through a catastrophic event that lead to the death of her family. She survived and, yes, I'm sure she has a message to say. Let her tell it.

I only wonder what you would do in that situation? Doubt you would be on this forum mocking someone that survived such a tragic event.

The killing of any group of people is horrendous and you should be ashamed of yourselves for posting such horrific comments. I suppose the holocaust never happened in your eyes either, nor Vietnam, huh? Silly people....we are all human beings, no matter where we are from.

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Tom Shewmon 5 years, 1 month ago

Imagine of W had taken that road; dropping two bombs and annihilated 200,000 people? Wow! War then was so easy for a Democrat. A couple bombs and WHAM! treaty on a ship.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 1 month ago

.........Or a percentage of the net?

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RoeDapple 5 years, 1 month ago

hawk - when I get tired of it, it's yours...........

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

Sounds more like you're interested in mocking whatever she may have to say, HS. But that's OK, we all know that the mass murder of 100,000 people is just a big joke, yuk, yuk.

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Hardcore_Socialist 5 years, 1 month ago

George, Google her name and read more about her. It is more than experience, there is a motive.

I've heard she is quite good, a radiant speaker with a special glow about her. She lights up a room when she enters. I'm interested in seeing what she has to say.

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flamingdragon 5 years, 1 month ago

if she were in hiroshima-that makes her an enemy, right? what were in those atom bombs anyways? toyotas and sony televisions?

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George_Braziller 5 years, 1 month ago

She is talking about her experience living through a major historic event. Why are you assuming she has any other motive?

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Hardcore_Socialist 5 years, 1 month ago

Sachiko Masuoka has advocated the destruction of atomic weapons. The USA did just that in 1945, two were destroyed over her homeland because her homeland saw fit to attack the USA. That's two less bombs we'd have had today.

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barrypenders 5 years, 1 month ago

She should be pissed at the Democrats. They are the ones that blew up Japan and locked them in prisons in this country.

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hawkperchedatriverfront 5 years, 1 month ago

RoeDapple, that is a pretty name.

It would make a fine wine name. May I have the exclusive rights to it?

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RoeDapple 5 years, 1 month ago

thanks - should I move to Lawrence to post on the LJW?

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thanksforcoming 5 years, 1 month ago

Wow. madmike that's rediculous. The woman survived an atomic bomb. Now you are going to make sure she doesn't "blame" the U.S. She is a citiizen of the U.S. and I hope you can see the value in somebody else's experiences. FOr lawrence being one of the most liberal towns in Kansas you two are pretty close minded.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 1 month ago

Japan was developing their own atomic weapons at the time. If we didn't use ours they would have used theirs. Get over it, Sachiko, your side lost. If you were 18 at the time you were involved in Japans war effort.

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madmike 5 years, 1 month ago

I hope that in her blame the United States talk, she also mentions Tojo, the attack on Pearl Harbor, the rape on Nanking and the Bataan Death March.

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