Advertisement

Archive for Sunday, September 7, 2008

Anti-war activists mark 6 years of protests

From left, Louise and Allen Hanson march along with about 60 peace activists to Watson Park on Saturday along Massachusetts Street. For the last six years the Lawrence Coalition for Peace and Justice has sponsored anti-war vigils.

From left, Louise and Allen Hanson march along with about 60 peace activists to Watson Park on Saturday along Massachusetts Street. For the last six years the Lawrence Coalition for Peace and Justice has sponsored anti-war vigils.

September 7, 2008

Advertisement

From left, Louise and Allen Hanson march along with about 60 peace activists to Watson Park on Saturday along Massachusetts Street. For the last six years the Lawrence Coalition for Peace and Justice has sponsored anti-war vigils.

From left, Louise and Allen Hanson march along with about 60 peace activists to Watson Park on Saturday along Massachusetts Street. For the last six years the Lawrence Coalition for Peace and Justice has sponsored anti-war vigils.

About 60 peace activists marched Saturday down Massachusetts Street in an event that marked six years of anti-war demonstrations.

"The country seems to have lost interest in ever bringing peace," activist C.J. Brune said. "There was a lot of interest six years ago and even five years ago. Now it's like business as usual."

Men and women, young and old, participated in the march. They carried flowers, flags and signs displaying such statements as "Give peace a chance."

"We're celebrating that it's too bad the Iraq war is not over," activist Richard Heckler said. "The troops are not home. They need to stop spending our money and killing everybody."

The vigil and march was headed up by the Lawrence Coalition for Peace and Justice.

The group's members can be seen in front of the Douglas County Courthouse on Saturdays. The group began demonstrations in 2002, months before the U.S.-led invasion into Iraq that began in March 2003.

Several activists said they are watching the presidential election closely.

But some said they aren't happy with the promises of either Republican candidate John McCain or Democratic candidate Barack Obama.

"Neither candidate has come out as strongly for peace and negotiation kinds of things," activist Roma Earles said.

Brune echoed a similar sentiment, voicing some disappointment with both parties.

"The Democrats are just slightly better than the Republicans as far as an anti-war platform," she said. "But they're not bring-'em-home-now people by any means."

Brune said the activists intend to continue spreading their message for peace.

"We definitely want to keep out in front of the public eye that a war is going on, a needless, absolutely stupid war," she said.

Comments

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

"We're celebrating that it's too bad the Iraq war is not over," activist Richard merrill Heckler said:"When will they be protesting the Russian invasion of Georgia? merrill (Anonymous) says: "Our politicians are killing brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers around the world. Is this pro life?"An estimated 125 people were shot and killed over the summer in Chicago alone. That's nearly double the number of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq over the same time period.http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.summer.shootings.2.810166.htmlMaybe Obama's experience as a community activist in Chicago wasn't all that successful?

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

The the democrats in Congress also voted to authorize the President to go to war, did they not think there would be killing and maiming and stuff? When Saddam violated the UN resolutions after UN resolution did he think there would be no consequences? Right or wrong, this war was as much a democratic war as a republican war and the American people were overwhelming in favor of military action, attempts to rewrite history to the contrary notwithstanding.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

the bush legacy --- some of us protest the war for six yearssome of us protest the debtsome of us protest Bush/CheneyWAR since May 2003increasing debt into the future -The Christian Science Monitor article:'the bush legacy - more debt'http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0927/p01s02-usec.html

Flap Doodle 6 years, 3 months ago

coltrane, you posted the same youtube link on only 3 threads?You're slipping, dude.Relax and have a popsicle. It's a cool and fruity treat on a hot summer day.

Shardwurm 6 years, 3 months ago

I think their protests would be a lot more effective in Iraq or perhaps Russia.

seattlehawk_78 6 years, 3 months ago

Nearly every military conflict the US has been involved in since the end of WWII has been a diplomatic mistake. This war was a terrible error in judgement from day 1. If McCain is in the white house the loss of life will tragically continue.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

http://www.womenforpeace.org.au/FactSheet6vpn.pdfSigmund, more for your reading about UN resolution violations.... apparently, U.S. didn't invade Israel that violated the most UN resolutions.... or at least Morroco... what am i think?

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

"Sigmund (Anonymous) says: When will they be protesting the Russian invasion of Georgia?"Georgia invaded South Ossatia, and don't know the other name...., Russian's invasion was in retaliation against that, that was a "revenge" against the endorsement of Kosovo's independence. Who's pointing the finger at who? Why is Georgia our problem? Oh, you mean Georgia, as in the State of Georgia?

RedwoodCoast 6 years, 3 months ago

Potawatomie, I just checked out your link. The neighbors probably heard me laughing. Good stuff.

jumpin_catfish 6 years, 3 months ago

They have declared defeat, oh the surge worked and proved winning is always better then running away like scared children.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

gee i really don't understand teach 101is teach suggesting increasing hazards and death so that the war fatalities seem smaller still?

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

the surge ain't work in Afghanistan / Pakstan !

BigPrune 6 years, 3 months ago

PALIN: Just last night Senator Obama finally broke and brought himself to admit what all the rest of us have known for quite some time, and that's: thanks to the skill and valor of our troops, the surge in Iraq has succeeded. Senator Obama said that the surge, quote, "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. I think," said Senator Obama, "that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated." I guess when you turn out to be profoundly wrong on a vital national security issue, maybe it's comforting to pretend that everyone else was wrong, too.

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

The public debt/GDP ratio has increased each year since 2001, peaking at 37.4 percent in 2004, and then gradually declining to 36.9 percent in 2007, still far below the roughly 50 percent ratio of the mid-1990s.http://www.gao.gov/financial/fy2007/07frusg.pdf 2007 Financial Report of the U.S. Government, page 18.Now who was President in the mid-1990's again? Oh yeah, Clinton (January 20, 1993 January 20, 2001). If you prefer your facts in pretty pictures...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:De...

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

a 5 year 'surge'?the largest global army from a country of 300 million deployed against a third rate force of a country of 24.5 million A F T E R 10 year plus restrictions from the first gulf war.....and you 'proBush' guys call this a success ?unbelieveable.W is a complete failure as commander in chief and as President.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

The war was started by an irresponsible President (the guy who spilled the milk), Americans are responsible to clean up the mess from the spillage, the Republicans are congratulating themselves for cleaning up the spillage and claim credits for it. The Democrats are rushing us to speed up the cleaning process, and probably never gets it clean. Although both sides are wrong, either side like to bash the other side and only bring the bad things... but the Republicans and their Faux News people are worst... because they started the mess first (causing the spillage), and put the blame on everyone who voted for the mess to being with.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

"BigPrune (Anonymous) says: PALIN: Just last night Senator Obama finally broke and brought himself to admit what all the rest of us have known for quite some time, and that's: thanks to the skill and valor of our troops, the surge in Iraq has succeeded. Senator Obama said that the surge, quote, "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. I think," said Senator Obama, "that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated." I guess when you turn out to be profoundly wrong on a vital national security issue, maybe it's comforting to pretend that everyone else was wrong, too."1. Believers in the Republicans simply cannot differentiate Afganistan and Iraq.2. Believers cannot differentiate the differences between Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.3. Believers cannot differentiate the differences between fighting against terrorism (i.e. Al Qaeda) versus fighting for the freedom of the citizens (i.e. Iraq). Note the tone and theme change from "Fight against terrorism in Iraq" to "Operation Iraqi freedom"?4. The surge has succeeded. Congratulate yourself. But why do we need the surge in the first place? Because we want to bring freedom to Iraq or is it that Saddam was linked to Al Qaeda? Never congratulate yourself when you spill the milk in the first place. Never congratulate your kids when they cleaned up a mess that they've made.5. What is the purpose of the Iraq war? Someone just doesn't get it, and someone just cannot differentiate the differences between the purpose of Iraq war and the purpose of the Afganistan war.6. We're safer today? I don't know if there's an indicator called safe. When you claim that things are looking good and safe, you got to show it with an indicator or a series of indicators. A few months before 9-11, everything looked pretty safe. Didn't it? Bush claimed that the world is safer... really? Well, without indicators, it is very difficult to justify, however, I thought we heard about bombings very regularly everywhere around the world? So is the world safer? Or is it that we hide ourselves in the shell, and thus no one gets killed, and thus, we're "safer"? If we're safer, how come we cannot bring bottled water onto the plane but still can bring our lighters?

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

"Sigmund (Anonymous) says: "I see. Is that a justified war then?"No war is ever justified. If USA wants to "punish" Russia, how about Georgia, which invade the two provinces in the first place?"True, is your point that we can use war to enforce UN resolutions only if we enforce all UN by force?"If you ever read properly! You said Iraq was invaded because it violated UN resolutions. Is that a good reason for invading Iraq?"That is how I look at it and that was my point, yet somehow republicans are to be blamed differently from republicans. Why?"All Republicans cannot be held responsible. The decision-makers have to be held responsible. That include CIA heads, President, Vice-President, and all the advisors. Republicans are not to be blamed if they were led into believing that the information was true but in fact was false. Verification of information is the responsibility of those involved, and they have huge amount of resources to do so, and it is a BIG decision, and not a SMALL decision."Should have read That is how I look at it and that was my point, yet somehow republicans are to be blamed differently from democrats. Why?"Again, many more Republicans are to be blamed than Democrats, however, you should understand how the congress and senate operate. There are more Republicans involved in the twisting of information on the war, and many Republicans are involved in the acts of twisting the facts. And, they stood behind George Bush and backed his decisions even after knowing that they are flawed. Some didn't, and they're not responsible. If they stood by George Bush for a flawed decision that led to the wrong invasion of a soveriegn country, they should also be held responsible, but to a lesser extent. Republicans like Ron Paul, is clean from this act of aggression. He's spared.It's only when they knew that the American public realized how bad a decision Bush has made, and his rating fell to all-time low, and they started distancing themselves from him, you can start smelling hypocrisy among most of the Republicans. Of course, most of the Democrats should be free from this despicable act, since they're the other party. It's the same, I'd hold most Democrats responsible if they're the ones who made the decision to invade Iraq.Independents make sense. The rest are just nuts!

commuter 6 years, 3 months ago

Good for these people. I think their protests of the war would be better if the did the protesting in DC. I would even given them a few bucks to go there and protest.The great think about the US we have the right to protest. Most of the pictures I have seen about the people protesting the war remind me of the hippies protesting in the 1960's. Whether they were on drugs then or now, they still appear the same to me- only the people look older.

Richard Heckler 6 years, 3 months ago

Our politicians are killing brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers around the world. Is this pro life? These dead humans are wayyyyyy beyond the third trimester and some were still in the womb. It is time to stop the killing and the spending of billions upon billions of dollars.A few thousand of those dead brothers,sisters,moms and dads are american soldiers who have no rights once they become soldiers. The military is not a democracy.The world cannot appreciate that our poilticans have killed more innocent human beings than Saddam.Between our soldiers and innocent Iraq,Afghanistan and now Pakistan people there are more than a 100,000 permanently disabled human beings as a result of our politicians. At least 35,000 are USA soldiers who will need disability pay and healthcare for at least 50 years if they live that long.A moving message:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_K6iVDGOHsStop The Illegal War and Occupation - Bring the Troops Home!

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

livingstone (Anonymous) says:"Georgia invaded South Ossatia, and don't know the other name:."I see. Is that a justified war then?livingstone (Anonymous) says: "Sigmund, more for your reading about UN resolution violations:. apparently, U.S. didn't invade Israel that violated the most UN resolutions:. or at least Morroco: what am i think?"True, is your point that we can use war to enforce UN resolutions only if we enforce all UN by force?livingstone (Anonymous) says: "It depends on which angle you look at. The democrats voted to authorize the war, but based their decision on a flawed fact, just like many other Republicans."That is how I look at it and that was my point, yet somehow republicans are to be blamed differently from republicans. Why?

Richard Heckler 6 years, 3 months ago

This appears to be Republican foreign policy and one that must be squashed: The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) is a neo-conservative think tank with strong ties to the American Enterprise Institute. PNAC's web site says it was "established in the spring of 1997" as "a non-profit, educational organization whose goal is to promote American global leadership."PNAC's policy document, "Rebuilding America's Defences," openly advocates for total global military domination. Many PNAC members hold highest-level positions in the George W. Bush administration.PNAC members in prominent government positions:Dick Cheney Vice PresidentDonald Rumsfeld Former Secretary of DefenseDouglas J. Feith (former) Undersecretary of DefenseI. Lewis Libby Vice President Cheney's former Chief of Staff and Assistant to the Vice President for National Security Affairs.Aaron Friedberg Vice President Cheney's deputy National Security advisorRobert Zoelick US Deputy Secretary of State Paula Dobriansky Undersecretary of StateElliott Abrams Deputy National Security AdviserFrank Gaffney Pentagon's Defense Policy BoardFred C. Ikle Pentagon's Defense Policy BoardEliot A. Cohen Pentagon's Defense Policy BoardHenry S. Rowen Pentagon's Defense Policy BoardWilliam J. Bennett Presidential speech writerJeb Bush Former Governor of FloridaPaul Wolfowitz World Bank PresidentJohn Bolton Ambassador to the U.N.Zalmay Khalilzad U.S. ambassador to Iraq

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

and the former CEO of Enron Europe was John Winga former CIA operative under 'daddy bush'.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

Dear Merrill,PNAC has a 'nice overlap' with the Carlyle Group as well.In 2001 i had an interesting conversation with David Barsamian of Alternative Radio.org about the overlap of these two groups and also of ties to ENRON.Carlyle Group overlap:former or current board members include1 - Jame Baker III2 - Don Rumsfeld3 - Frank Carlucci (BUSH I's Defense Secretary & Rumsfeld's college roommate)4 - Fred Malek, former atty for CREEP, committee to re=elect President Nixon5 - Paul WolfowitzLeslie Wayne of NYTimes did the initial story about Carlyle Group in 2001.

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

livingstone (Anonymous) says: "It depends on which angle you look at. The democrats voted to authorize the war, but based their decision on a flawed fact, just like many other Republicans."Should have read That is how I look at it and that was my point, yet somehow republicans are to be blamed differently from democrats. Why?

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

coltrane (Anonymous) says: "sorry for error"Sven, are you trying to set a personal best on the number of accounts that the LJW has banned?

tonythetiger 6 years, 3 months ago

I agree with Merrill....Hey Merrill, I think we are supposed to be breeding ourselves for the manufacture and machination of the wars that go on around the world sponsored by someone that wants people dead.i agree that they are way past the third trimester and they don't want us alive. They just want us to manufacture ourselves to stay alive to the war machine and donate ourselves when we are old enough to go.I don't like Big Brother the show and I don't want their Orwellian dream to take over my life and mind and erase it every night for their benefit. Big Brother is not a hit TV series show to me where they show people living together in dorm situations. This is no joke. I don't like the privacy pirates I want the endorsed Identity thieves brought to justice. I don't want people telling me how to think and when to donate my blood and body for their Jessusicca Simpson fashion perfume music video.I am sick of it.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

  1. The world is so dangerous outside... that's what the government wants you to think. So if it's still dangerous, why is Bush claiming that the world is safer? I don't know where he draws his conclusion, but definitely, believers in GOP want to believe that both are correlated.8. Is the economy in good or bad shape? Economic indicators may not be as accurate as we want to believe in. The U.S. economy is extremely diverse and globalized nowadays. In fact, globalization is extremely good in many cases, this is where I agree to some GOP ideals. However, I cannot understand why each side tries to bomb each other trying to tell the whole country that the economy is in a bad or good shape? They all miss the word: Structural recession.... some parts of the economy is in a bad shape, others are pretty ok, but the others may be tie to the ones that are in a bad shape.The solution is to move those affected by the bad ones into the good ones or to create other new ones. We cannot hold on to jobs that are created in the past, and expect ourselves to continue producing stuffs that are no longer relevant to the economy. Outsourcing may be bad, but it's good in many ways, like freeing up labors to take on the new industries and innovations. Outsourcing is good if you don't ship the products back to your own countries. That's where John Mccain gets it right (open more markets), Obama gets it right when he says he wants to create more jobs and create new industries.That's the reason why Independents are the right group to join!

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

"Sigmund (Anonymous) says: The the democrats in Congress also voted to authorize the President to go to war, did they not think there would be killing and maiming and stuff?"It depends on which angle you look at. The democrats voted to authorize the war, but based their decision on a flawed fact, just like many other Republicans. Of course, Ron Paul is the most prominent politician who stood up against the war (and of course his Libertarian's viewpoint gave him that vision). In the name of the law, who is more responsible? The person who gives the wrong information, or the person who listen to the wrong information and helped the former? Of course, later on, everyone found that there isn't any weapon of mass destruction, and of course no ties between Saddam and OBL. So who's responsible for that faulty information or not verify any information before sending billions and our troops into harm way? "When Saddam violated the UN resolutions after UN resolution did he think there would be no consequences? Right or wrong, this war was as much a democratic war as a republican war and the American people were overwhelming in favor of military action, attempts to rewrite history to the contrary notwithstanding."http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect2.htmlRead what Saddam violated... which one did he really violate? Support of terrorism (in a sense, OBL), and developing WMD?And by invading Iraq, U.S. violates a UN resolution.... so which country should invade us or you think that's double standard?http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/11599And see how many countries violated UN resolutions? Wow, invade all of them?

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

I find it odd that these groups, many who first organized protests against the Vietnam War, are so closely align with the democratic party. After John F. Kennedy's failure at the Bay of Pigs he believed that another failure on the part of the United States to gain control and stop communist expansion would fatally damage U.S. Determined to "draw a line in the sand" and prevent a communist victory in Vietnam, he is quoted as saying "Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place" and is credited by history as beginning the US involvement in Vietnam.After JFK's death another democrat President, Lyndon Johnson expanded the war through involuntary conscription "the draft" One reason for the increase in the opposition to the Vietnam War was Johnson's larger draft quotas. Finally it was President Richard Nixon, a republican, who bowing to political pressure ended US involvement Southeast Asia, effectively losing the conflict. Peace with honor was surrender by another name.As a result, Phnom Penh, the capital of Cambodia, fell to the Khmer Rouge and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam was declared. After repeated border clashes in 1978, Vietnam invaded Democratic Kampuchea (Cambodia) and ousted the Khmer Rouge. As many as two million died during the Khmer Rouge genocide. Vietnam began to repress its ethnic Chinese minority. Thousands fled and the exodus of the boat people began. Up to two million civilians left the country, and as many as half of these boat people perished at sea.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

sorry for error$10 billion a week ! in the Bush/Cheney wars for oil.Grand Oil Party's lookin at some big profit on this one.

Blessed_with_Freedom 6 years, 3 months ago

livingstone (Anonymous) says: The war was started by an irresponsible President (the guy who spilled the milk), Americans are responsible to clean up the mess from the spillage, the Republicans are congratulating themselves for cleaning up the spillage and claim credits for it. The Democrats are rushing us to speed up the cleaning process, and probably never gets it clean. Although both sides are wrong, either side like to bash the other side and only bring the bad things: but the Republicans and their Faux News people are worst: because they started the mess first (causing the spillage), and put the blame on everyone who voted for the mess to being with.I saw the same statement from Michael Moore on Communist News Network - Friday night. I thought it was interesting that they found 20 homeless dudes to wear Obama t-shirts and bowl for the cameras. I don't know much about Mr. Moore, but he didn't look very healthy... does anybody know if he is in poor health. I hope it was just poor lighting or too many sleepless nights as he knows this election is not going his way.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

i hope not a 'real teacher' ?gee, we don't spend $10 Billion a month of tax revenue on cars do we?teacher101 (Anonymous) says:50k a year die in car wrecks, just in America alone. Maybe they should picket Ford, Dodge, GM, Toyota, Honda::.

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

livingstone (Anonymous) says: "No war is ever justified."The US Civil War, and World War II were not justified? I bet there are a lot of blacks in the South and Jews and gays in Nazi concentration camps that would probably disagree with you and so do I.But my point was that both democrats and republicans voted for the authorization of use of force in Iraq. There is no indication that the Bush Administration told democrats or republicans anything different in the lead up to the war in Iraq. Even the Clinton Administration believed that Iraq had or was developing WMD. There is no basis to believe that republicans can be blamed more or less than democrats especially when a majority of democrats in the Senate also voted for the resolution. A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and the newspaper USA Today in May of 2003 concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons. Only 19% thought weapons were needed to justify the war. If the role of a legistlature is to do the will of the American people in a democracy, then the American people both democrats and republicans, are to blame. As for polls, although the Bush Administration approval ratings are low, the democratic controlled congress is lower and if i remember correctly it is still composed of both.If you think the republicans somehow "fooled" all those democrats into voting in favor of the war, then your opinion of democrats is lower than even mine.Still feel free ignore the facts and invent some kind of invisible pressure the republicans applied to democrats if it fits your world view and justifies your political prejudices and biases. Now don't get me wrong, I don't approve of all wars.

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

george_nye (Anonymous) says: "Good for these people. It makes more sense than piling the kids into a gas gulping SUV and going to church and driving past jails, prisons, halfway homes and drug treatment facilties to get to church and give tax free money:.tax free:.gotta stop that tax free sh!t."The money given to churches is after taxes, moron, after taxes paid for "jails, prisons, halfway homes and drug treatment facilties (sp)." All societies need jails and prisons and they are paid for by taxes. If you are arguing that we are wastinng money on halfway homes and drug treatment centers, I would probably agree.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

The Bush/Cheney deficithttp://www.iatse728.org/home/deficitgraph.htma war based upon lies did this to our treasury --- gee i wonder where most of the money went?

Sigmund 6 years, 3 months ago

coltrane (Anonymous) says: "some of us protest the debt"That is why some of us think you are an idiot. You are protesting debt that is LOWER as a percentage of GDP than under Clinton.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:De...

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

the cost of financing the Bush deficit is kind of scaryno need to change the tax rates or close corporate loopholes !http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/events/2008/0331_fiscalfuture/0331_fiscalfuture_deficit.pdf

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

read more about the Carlyle Group mentioned in Merrill's post above - related to Bush / Cheney war policies and PNAC connections.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_...

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

'siggie'of course many people not just the protesters of LJPJ are objecting to this kind of expenditure in attacking Iraq & Afghanistan - bombing their countryside, killiing their children when truly they had nothing to do with 9/11.the Bush wars were based upon lies....affordability is not the question of just causes.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

screedposter,The world has resolved so many problems without war before. War led to more hatred, and if one country started it, it should be ended with another battle against it. WWII injected a lot of hatred among different countries, and many problems we see today came from the leftovers of WWII. The deep south hatred of the Yankees didn't go away after the war, but the hatred lived till today.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

"screedposter (Anonymous) says: "The Civil War didn't fix any of the racial issues that were embedded in the slavery period""WWII didn't fix any of the racial issues"Best not to have bothered, eh?No matter what true thing I write here, it will get deleted."USA stayed out of the war until Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Without the bombing, I don't think Americans would be that furious to want to win a war. If others attacked us, it's only right to retaliate.There are many other ways to resolve a conflict. Do you mean that Palestinians should invade Israel to get back their land? Or Israel should invade Palestine once and for all? War is so shortsighted.If Japan didn't declare war on USA, and Germany didn't invade USSR, the story will be very different today. Did the Berlin wall collaspe because of a war? How many people die for the Berlin wall to collaspe?

Flap Doodle 6 years, 3 months ago

"george_nye (Anonymous) says: Screedposter:.have you "served"????"Is that the intellectually dishonest chickenhawk gauntlet being cast down?"So it is with chickenhawk. Its power lies in the simplicity that comes with being completely wrong. The central implication here is that only men who have professionally endured war have the moral standing and the experiential authority to advocate war. That is, in this country at least, a radical and ahistorical view. The Founders, who knew quite well the dangers of a military class supreme, were clear in their conviction that the judgment of professional warmakers must be subjugated to the command of ignorant amateurs--civilian leaders who were in turn subjugated to the command of civilian voters. Such has given us the leadership in war of such notable chickenhawks as Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Further, the inescapable logic of chickenhawk-calling is that only military men have standing to pronounce in any way on war--to advocate it or to advocate against it. The decision not to go to war involves exactly the same issues of experiental and moral authority as does the decision to go to war. If a past of soldiering is required for one, it is required for the other. Chickendoves have no more standing than chickenhawks. We must leave all the decisions to the generals and the veterans."http://web.archive.org/web/20021101213629/http://www.townhall.com/columnists/michaelkelly/mk20021030.shtml

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

How can we listen in a calm and clear way so that we don't immediately kill the chance for understanding to develop? As a nation we need to look into this: how to create the situations for deep listening to occur so that our response to the situation may arise out of our calm and clear mind. Clarity is a great offering that we can make at this time. There are people who want one thing only: revenge. In the Buddhist scriptures, the Buddha said that by using hatred to answer hatred, there will only be an escalation of hatred. But if we use compassion to embrace those who have harmed us, it will greatly diffuse the bomb in our hearts and in theirs. So how can we bring about a drop of compassion that can put out the fire of hatred? You know, they do not sell compassion in the supermarket. If they sold compassion, we would only need to bring it home and we could solve the problem of hatred and violence in the world very easily. But compassion can only be produced in our own heart by our own practice. America is burning with hatred. That is why we have to tell our Christian friends, "You are children of Christ." You have to return to yourselves and look deeply and find out why this violence happened. Why is there so much hatred? What lies under all this violence? Why do they hate so much that they would sacrifice their own lives and bring about so much suffering to other people? Why would these young people, full of vitality and strength, have chosen to lose their lives, to commit such violence? That is what we have to understand.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

screedposter, ignorance leads to more ignorance.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

What I Would Say to Osama bin Laden (written 9/20/2001)Thich Nhat Hanh Interview by Anne A. Simpkinson Thich Nhat Hanh is a Vietnamese monk in the Zen tradition, who worked tirelessly for peace during the Vietnam War, rebuilding villages destroyed by the hostilities. Following an anti-war lecture tour in the United States, he was not allowed back in his country and settled in France.In 1967, he was nominated by the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., for the Nobel Peace Prize. He is now internationally known for his teaching and writing on mindfulness, and for his work related to "socially engaged Buddhism," a call to social action based on Buddhist principles. Thay, as he is affectionately called by his followers, shared his thoughts on how America should respond to the terrorist attacks. This interview will appear in a forthcoming book entitled "From the Ashes: A Spiritual Response to the Attack on America," to be published jointly by Beliefnet and Rodale Press.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

Do you believe things happen for a reason? If so, what was the reason for the attacks on the U.S.A.? The deep reason for our current situation is our patterns of consumption. U.S.A. citizens consume 60% of the world's energy resources yet they account for only 6% of the total world's population. Children in America have witnessed 100,000 acts of violence on television by the time they finish elementary school. Another reason for our current situation is our foreign policy and the lack of deep listening within our relationships. We do not use deep listening to understand the suffering and the real needs of people in other nations. What do you think would be the most effective spiritual response to this tragedy? We can begin right now to practice calming our anger, looking deeply at the roots of the hatred and violence in our society and in our world, and listening with compassion in order to hear and understand what we have not yet had the capacity to hear and to understand. When the drop of compassion begins to form in our hearts and minds, we begin to develop concrete responses to our situation. When we have listened and looked deeply, we may begin to develop the energy of brotherhood and sisterhood between all nations, which is the deepest spiritual heritage of all religious and cultural traditions. In this way the peace and understanding within the whole world is increased day by day. To develop the drop of compassion in our own heart is the only effective spiritual response to hatred and violence. That drop of compassion will be the result of calming our anger, looking deeply at the roots of our violence, deep listening, and understanding the suffering of everyone involved in the acts of hatred and violence. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/88/story_8872.html

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

Sigmund (Anonymous) says: "livingstone (Anonymous) says: "No war is ever justified."The US Civil War, and World War II were not justified? I bet there are a lot of blacks in the South and Jews and gays in Nazi concentration camps that would probably disagree with you and so do I."You know, don't sound so much like the politicians that use words and quotations. Of course, the Democrats like the cite Mccain's "5 million is Middle Class".... Not even the Civil War and WWII can ever be justified. There are many solutions available before fighting can begin, and the other options should be used correctly.Let me give you my argument. If Hitler ain't as stupid as he was, to invade USSR, Europe might have still be under Nazism. He made a wrong move to invade USSR, and that somehow contributed the most to his downfall. War was necessary, however, it might not be the most effective, and a lot of times, luck is needed. The civil war could have gone the other way, and blacks might still be enslaved......"But my point was...no ..."True. But the truth and reliability of the information should be clarified. I was refering to the truth and reliability, and not the authorization. There is no difference of what Bush Administration told the congress.... but Bush Administration should be held responsible, because what he told the congress was found to be false and flawed. When most Democrats found out, they shelled the Bush Administration! But most Republicans backed him. I cited "most".So now, those who backed Bush, wanted to clear up the mess, which is good, and I support that. However, why should anyone get the credit for clearing up a mess that they started in the first place?Bush's refusal to admit to his lie, doesn't take away his responsibility for lying, or to be fair to him, using a flawed information. In fact, Americans are to be blamed for putting him back into the White House, and accepting his lie."Even the Clinton Administration believed ...."See my above argument.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

"Sigmund said:A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and the newspaper USA Today in May of 2003 concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons. Only 19% thought weapons were needed to justify the war. If the role of a legistlature is to do the will of the American people in a democracy, then the American people both democrats and republicans, are to blame. As for polls, although the Bush Administration approval ratings are low, the democratic controlled congress is lower and if i remember correctly it is still composed of both."Judging from the fact that over 50% voted for Bush in 2004 and the poll before the election showed that Kerry led by huge margin, you cannot believe in polls anymore.Also, the reason for bringing democracy to Iraq is a later version for the war, not the initial. The initial reasons were WMD and Al-Qaeda. Of course, bringing freedom to Iraq is important, but by WAR? The best way to bring freedom to Iraq is to democratize Saudi Arabia and UAE... are they "free" yet? What a joke."If you think the republicans somehow "fooled" all those democrats into voting in favor of the war, then your opinion of democrats is lower than even mine.Still feel free ignore the facts and invent some kind of invisible pressure the republicans applied to democrats if it fits your world view and justifies your political prejudices and biases."I didn't say that. The Republicans still backed Bush even after they know that WMD were not found, and that there was no links between Saddam and Al Qaeda. They all backed Bush, up to the recent Presidential Election, and everyone started to move away from Bush after the Republicans lost control of the congress. Remember that? A bunch of hypocrites!And your final statement to claim that I'm biased is worst. I've criticized Democrats for not doing the right thing on the economy, and I supported the Republicans' economic development plan. I'm so sad when John Mccain changed his position just to win over the Evangelical votes. I ever thought of voting for him, You're the bias one.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

Sigmund,Of course, the Berlin Wall fell without using any of the nuclear weapon both sides have made. It fell because of Mikail Gorbachev. Did the bombing campaign in ex-Yugo led to any good? Not much. War is never the answer, it may be a quick fix. The Civil War didn't fix any of the racial issues that were embedded in the slavery period, and it was carried over to 1960s, when MLK stood up. WWII didn't fix any of the racial issues, it was later fixed by non-war actions. Wars have been given too much credits by people, mainly like yourself. If any war is justifiable, well, the war against the US by Al-Qaeda is justifiable too, from the Arab point of views (now, don't call me Rev. Wright for saying it). No war is justifiable. But counterwar to defend one's country is always justifiable. Germany invaded France, of course, counter actions against an agressor is justifiable, and I don't call that a war. Al-Qaeda bombed the WTC and attacked US military base, and declared war on the US, of course, the only action is to take on the war.However, the war in Iraq? Did Saddam declare war? Nope. Civil war: Anyone invade anyone?War is not the answer, but one has to take up weapon to fight if someone attacked you. Sigmund, don't be like Karl Rove!

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

"Sigmund,Still feel free ignore the facts and invent some kind of invisible pressure the republicans applied to democrats if it fits your world view and justifies your political prejudices and biases."Well, I didn't say that. You put the words in my mouth. You speak so much like Sean Hannity and his gang, and Keith Olberman... twisted in many ways. If you're given a falsified information, of course, you will agree to them. But when you discovered that those are falsified, of course, you will go back and support them.Of course, your eyes only have Republicans and none of the Democrats even appeal to you. For me, I take things from both sides. But the problem is when you agree with the Democrats on some issues, people, like yourself, immediately stick a headpad on you and label you a liberal. That's just how bias your kind of people are.Of course, the bunch of hypocritcal GOPs label the CodePink protestors as Democrats and hippies, they're right on the latter, but wrong on the former. CodePink showed up on Clinton's rally too! And of course, the GOP likes to kick Ron Paul out of the convention, what hypocrite! Isn't Ron Paul a Republican? He wasn't given the badge unless he comply with the request from the Republicans.Of course, Ron Paul never jump ship like Joe Lieberman. Of course, a pro-choice, pro-abortion, ultra-liberal senator speaking to a cheering pro-life, ant-abortion, and ultra-conservative crowd and made the crowd so excited... sounds so hypocritical to me, and of course, it sounds so bias to me.The Democrats are definitely not up to the standard too, but of the two evils, which is worst? Of course, the guys who make the wrong decisions and put the blames and everyone else.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

there are other options - understanding is better than WAR. the current invasion of Iraq & Afghanistan was not necessary:Thich Nhat Hanh, peace activist:In your new book "Anger," you give an example of "compassionate listening" as a tool to heal families. Can that tool be used at a national level, and if so, how would that work? This past summer a group of Palestinians and Israelis came to Plum Village, the practice center where I live in southern France, to learn and practice the arts of deep listening and loving speech. (Around 1,600 people come to Plum Village each summer from over a dozen countries to listen and to learn how to bring peace and understanding to their daily lives.) The group of Palestinians and Israelis participated in the daily schedule of walking meditation, sitting meditation, and silent meals, and they also received training on how to listen and speak to each other in such a way that more understanding and peace could be possible between them as individuals and as nations. With the guidance and support of the monks and nuns, they sat down and listened to each other. When one person spoke no one interrupted him or her. Everyone practiced mindfulness of their breathing and listening in such a way that the other person felt heard and understood. When a person spoke, they refrained from using words of blame, hatred, and condemnation. They spoke in an atmosphere of trust and respect. Out of these dialogues the participating Palestinians and Israelis were very moved to realize that both sides suffer from fear. They appreciated the practice of deep listening and made arrangements to share what they had learned with others upon returning to their home countries. We recommended that the Palestinians and Israeli talk about their suffering, fears, and despair in a public forum that all the world could hear. We could all listen without judging, without condemning in order to understand the experience of both sides. This would prepare the ground of understanding for peace talks to occur.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

You personally experienced the devastation caused by the war fought in Vietnam and worked to end the hostilities there. What do you say to people who are grief-stricken and enraged because they have lost loved ones in the terrorist attack? I did lose my spiritual sons and daughters during the war when they were entering the fighting zone trying to save those under the bombs. Some were killed by war and some by murder due to the misunderstanding that they were supporting the other side. When I looked at the four slain corpses of my spiritual sons murdered in such a violent way, I suffered deeply. I understand the suffering of those who have lost beloved ones in this tragedy. In situations of great loss and grief, I had to find my calm in order to restore my lucidity and my heart of understanding and compassion. With the practice of deep looking, I realized that if we respond to cruelty with cruelty, injustice and suffering will only increase. When we learned of the bombing of Ben Tre village in Vietnam, where the pilots told the journalists that they had destroyed the village in order to save it, I was shocked, and [racked] with anger and grief. We practiced walking calmly and gently on the earth to bring back our calm mind and peaceful heart. Although it is very challenging to maintain our openness in that moment, it is crucial that we not respond in any way until we have calmness and clarity with which to see the reality of the situation. We knew that to respond with violence and hatred would only damage ourselves and those around us. We practiced [so that we might] look deeply into the suffering of the people inflicting violence on us, to understand them more deeply and to understand ourselves more deeply. With this understanding we were able to produce compassion and to relieve our own suffering and that of the other side. What is the "right action" to take with regard to responding to terrorist attacks? Should we seek justice through military action? Through judicial processes? Is military action and/or retaliation justified if it can prevent future innocents from being killed? All violence is injustice. The fire of hatred and violence cannot be extinguished by adding more hatred and violence to the fire. The only antidote to violence is compassion. And what is compassion made of? It is made of understanding. When there is no understanding, how can we feel compassion, how can we begin to relieve the great suffering that is there? So understanding is the very real foundation upon which we build our compassion. How do we gain the understanding and insight to guide us through such incredibly challenging moments that we are now face in America? To understand, we must find paths of communication so that we can listen to those who desperately are calling out for our understanding because such an act of violence is a desperate call for attention and for help.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

We have to find a way to stop violence, of course. If need be, we have to put the men responsible in prison. But the important thing is to look deeply and ask, "Why did that happen? What responsibility do we have in that happening? " Maybe they misunderstood us. But what has made them misunderstand us so much to make them hate so much? The method of the Buddha is to look deeply to see the source of suffering; the source of the violence. If we have violence within ourselves, any action can make that violence explode. This energy of hatred and violence can be very great and when we see that in the other person then we feel sorry for them. When we feel sorry for them, the drop of compassion is born in our hearts and we feel so much happier and so much more at peace in ourselves. That [empathy] produces the nectar of compassion within ourselves. If you come to the monastery, it is in order to learn to do that, so that whenever you suffer and feel angry, you know how to look deeply, so that the drop of compassion in your heart can come out of your heart and can put out the fever of anger. Only the drop of compassion that can put out the flames of hatred. We must look deeply and honestly at our present situation. If we are able to see the sources for the suffering within ourselves and within the other person, we can begin to unravel the cycle of hatred and violence. When our house is on fire, we must first put out the fire before investigating its cause. Likewise, if we first extinguish the anger and hatred in our own heart, we will have a chance to deeply investigate the situation with clarity and insight in order to determine all the causes and conditions that have contributed to the hatred and violence we are experiencing within ourselves and within our world. The "right action" is the action that results in the fires of hatred and violence being extinguished.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

make no mistakeit was Bush/Cheney that brought us to this war as an 'answer' to 9/11.now about the results of that --- W is responsiblealong with Rumsfeld etc.

coltrane 6 years, 3 months ago

Thich Nhat Hanh, Zen master & peace activist speaking on 9/11If you could speak to Osama bin Laden, what would you say to him? Likewise, if you were to speak to the American people, what would you suggest we do at this point, individually and as a nation? If I were given the opportunity to be face to face with Osama bin Laden, the first thing I would do is listen. I would try to understand why he had acted in that cruel way. I would try to understand all of the suffering that had led him to violence. It might not be easy to listen in that way, so I would have to remain calm and lucid. I would need several friends with me, who are strong in the practice of deep listening, listening without reacting, without judging and blaming. In this way, an atmosphere of support would be created for this person and those connected so that they could share completely, trust that they are really being heard. After listening for some time, we might need to take a break to allow what has been said to enter into our consciousness. Only when we felt calm and lucid would we respond. We would respond point by point to what had been said. We would respond gently but firmly in such a way to help them to discover their own misunderstandings so that they will stop violent acts from their own will. For the American people, I would suggest that we do everything we can to restore our calm and our lucidity before responding to the situation. To respond too quickly before we have much understanding of the situation may be very dangerous. The first thing we can do is to cool the flames of anger and hatred that are so strong in us. As mentioned before, it is crucial to look at the way we feed the hatred and violence within us and to take immediate steps to cut off the nourishment for our hatred and violence. When we react out of fear and hatred, we do not yet have a deep understanding of the situation. Our action will only be a very quick and superficial way of responding to the situation and not much true benefit and healing will occur. Yet if we wait and follow the process of calming our anger, looking deeply into the situation, and listening with great will to understand the roots of suffering that are the cause of the violent actions, only then will we have sufficient insight to respond in such a way that healing and reconciliation can be realized for everyone involved. In South Africa, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission has made attempts to realize this. All the parties involved in violence and injustice agreed to listen to each other in a calm and supportive environment, to look together deeply at the roots of violent acts and to find agreeable arrangements to respond to the situations. The presence of strong spiritual leaders is very helpful to support and maintain such an environment. We can look at this model for resolving conflicts that are arising right in the present moment; we do not have to wait many years to realize this.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

"screedposter (Anonymous) says: Name any way that the holocaust could have been reversed short of war."First, let me point out your ignorance. No one really knew of the holocaust when the war first started. The war was not started to stop the holocaust, but to stop the invasion of Germany into other countries.Second, US wasn't involve in the war until after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.Third, it was never a good reason to invade Germany when holocaust took place in their own country. Germany started persecuting the Jews long before WWII, so had most European countries. For your information, Jews found heaven in Albania back then (a Muslim country!). The influx of Jews into the United States can easily be traced back to the 1920s when persecution started.No one ever invaded Russia for their own holocaust? Nor did anyone invaded Turkey for their holocaust? Or someone even bothered about the holocaust occuring in China during the Japanese invasion in 1910 to 1930s (until the involvement by the Americans).Please read up your history before stating your opinions here.

Sean Livingstone 6 years, 3 months ago

"screedposter (Anonymous) says: Name any way that the holocaust could have been reversed short of war."When all Jews and despised got exterminated or migrated. Simple as that, is that what you want to hear? Well, you're really funny. No one ever knew about the holocaust until they reached the end. Even if they knew there was a holocaust, no war would have been started just because of that. Yes, the war ended the holocaust, but pure luck. You're blubing nonsense here!what are you talking about? What "war was started to stop the invasion of Germany into other countries?"Wow, nice nonsense again. Didn't Germany invaded France that wet Britain's pant? Poland was invaded before the Allied declared war on Germany... what nonsense are you talking about?"study your history. google lend-lease. Educate yourself."You should do it yourself."Oh, I see where you are coming from. You're one of those people who is still pulling their hair out remembering what happened in Rwanda when Clinton had the U.N. mandate there."Rwanda had the genocide first, and the war was for that purpose (though I don't agree to it). But the genocide in Germany was never known until the last days of WWII! What nonsense are you talking about? You Republicans are so twisted! You cannot accept the fact that an independent can support the Democratic agenda!"Germany started persecuting the Jews long before WWII, so had most European countries. For your information, Jews found heaven[sic] in Albania back then (a Muslim country!).[sic] The influx of Jews into the United States can easily be traced back to the 1920s when persecution started.[False]"Please read up[sic] your history before stating your opinions here."If you rely on history from your bible, I really cannot help educate you. If you want me to know about your history, please write them clearly in your postings. If not, how would I know your history? It's so easy to say: "Hey, you're wrong, read history", "hey, you're wrong, google history".You're so ignorant. You didn't know a bit of history... I don't blame you. The reason is that many Republicans are blinded by their ignorance. If you want to live in lies, go ahead. You cannot even accept that some people may agree with some Republicans agenda, and some Democratic agendas..." Seek help, and an English tutor."Sure, that's the last desperate measure you have in life. If anyone who doesn't agree with you, you'll ask them to get an English tutor. You've shamed the great name of America!

not_dolph 6 years, 3 months ago

Dear patrol - one minor adjustment to your statement..."when the real issue is that Coltrane bought his house backing up on the fields, which he uses as his personal dog poop park?"Coltrane would appear to be simply a care taker of the property through a trust, so really he doesn't even own said property.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.