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Archive for Monday, July 9, 2007

Bicyclist life-flighted after vehicle accident

Lawrence man injured

July 9, 2007, 11:03 a.m. Updated July 9, 2007, 12:17 p.m.

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A bicyclist was taken by air ambulance to Kansas University Hospital after an accident about 10:20 a.m. today near the intersection of Highway 24-40 and 1600 East Road.

Law enforcement officials said a 20-year-old Lawrence man was riding a bicycle east on 24-40 when he started to turn left onto 1600 East Road in front of a white 1990 Ford Ranger pickup. Leroy Walters, 63, Tonganoxie, was driving the truck, which also was headed east. Officers said they could not provide the bicyclist's name until his family members are notified.

Before the bicyclist was flown to the Kansas City, Kan., hospital, he was alert, according to Kansas Highway Patrol T.L. Berner. About noon, hospital officials said they still were evaluating the bicyclist's condition.

Comments

schweppy 7 years, 5 months ago

Just FYI, it's illegal for bikes to ride on the sidewalks. Drivers need to be aware of riders on the road and give them ample space.

Thoughts go out to those involved in this accident.

guesswho 7 years, 5 months ago

So many issues here. Sidewalks are for pedestrians, too dangerous for the biker and others on the sidewalks (plus, haven't we had forums about the crappy conditions of sidewalks here?). Road biking is a legitimate sport - Lawrence has hosted the national collegiate championship biking event for at least 2 years. Ideally, roads would have bike lines but they don't. Watch out for everyone. We don't (shouldn't) blame motorcyclists when they get in a wreck because they are hard to see. Accidents happen, we all need to slow down and watch out for each other and quit yer bitchen'.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

Ride on the sidewalks? That assumes much.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"Bikes should NOT be on the road, period. They are a danger to the vehicles driver and passengers, not to mention the bike rider."

40,000 people die on American roads every year, and bicycles are involved in a fraction of a fraction of 1% of all of those accidents. So your while "argument" might be emotionally satisfying to spew, it's unsupportable and therefore really stupid.

walkdog262 7 years, 5 months ago

Ban bikes! Let's all drive Hummers! Anyone who makes that argument is a fool.

countrygirl 7 years, 5 months ago

And just where are the sidewalks on 24-40 highway that you think this bicyclist should have been riding on? Geez, can't both sides just show each other some respect? Drivers, keep your eyes open for bikes, just as you should be for slower traffic, farm equipment and wildlife and cyclists, do all you can to not hold up traffic and be visible. So sorry for all involved. Bad day to be on the roads--already lost one person in Douglas Co this morning. Truly hope it doesn't wind up being two.

Crossfire 7 years, 5 months ago

4th & bbb, It's a little early to be attacking the rider who was just Lifeflighted out. He might be a friend or neighbor. He or she might be seriously hurt or dead. BTW if you drive read the book. It explains the rights of riders and pedestrians, and your responsibility as a driver. If you can't handle it maybe you should ride the T.

sundancewierdo 7 years, 5 months ago

what is wrong with you people. we should all take notice of riders. lets all get off our butts and do something for our bodies, pocketbooks, environment and ride a bike once in a while. thoughts and prayers for all involved.

shirinisb 7 years, 5 months ago

Obeseity is karma kicking lazy people in the ass. The joke is eventually on them.

Biking is generally illegal on the sidewalk if you're within city limits.

Why a town this size and supposedly this "green" doesn't have more bike lanes, I'll never know.

Calliope877 7 years, 5 months ago

I don't mind bicyclists on the road, as long as they obey the traffic laws. But I hate it when they pull up beside me at a stoplight/sign.:(

eradda 7 years, 5 months ago

I don't have any problem with bikers on the roads as long as they follow the same traffic laws that everyone else does. Nothing irks me more than bicyclists that ride through stop signs, red lights, etc.

Centrist 7 years, 5 months ago

Anyone consider the possibility that the victim might not have been at fault??????

Kookamooka 7 years, 5 months ago

Why is everyone blaming the cyclist? Doesn't the 63 year old man have any responsibility? I can't tell you how worried I get when my elderly father drives my kids around. He's already had one stroke. How do we know this man driving the truck was even capable of operating a motor vehicle? I see an increase in fatalities due to older drivers as the baby boomers become less in control of their faculties.

storm 7 years, 5 months ago

I'm sorry to hear of the news. I hope the person will come through alright. I have no problem with people riding bicycles - I know they have a right to the roadway, and I must slow down as I do for any slow moving farm vehicle on a two-lane. Both modes of travel are not allowed on the sidewalk. Sigh, I just wish joggers in the street would get caught and get ticketed for not using the sidewalk, like they're supposed to.

leadrain 7 years, 5 months ago

Off to the Right- I disagree with your " ban bikes " statement. Unless, you meant " ban bikes on highways." In which case you've probably hit the nail on the head. Flesh,bone,flimsy alluminium frames, or even composites simply don't stand a chance when up against a 1000 lb. hunk of metal cruising at 50 or 65. Tooling around town on bikes for recreation has always been a popular pastime in Lawrence. Let's all just use common sense and a little precaution and hopefully we'll be seeing fewer of these stories. Ride on! Don't ride OVER!!

Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 5 months ago

I think all should wait until the facts are in before we go blaming anyone. There are so many things that could have happened and we do not have all the facts. Hope the biker has a speedy recovery and the driver is not to traumitized for life.

Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 5 months ago

Now on a funny note, many years ago, my mother was stopped at a stop sign, in a blazer, and got hit by a bike, needless to say she as fine, the bike rider was also fine but a little mad that she had not gotten out of her way. Well after looking at my mom and the mom stare, he said sorry and left. The good old mom stare.

yankeelady 7 years, 5 months ago

I too hope the rider will be ok. But it IS hard to share when there are no shoulders, sometimes limited visibility, especially when the crops or grass is tall. The bicycles are simply not a match for a car or truck going 50-60 mph. simple physics at work.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

Moving behind the dubious "logic" of B3, 4th Grade, and so forth, it is NOT illegal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk unless certain conditions exist. It may be unwise, impracticable, or mechanical impossible, but it is not illegal.

Of course, cyclists have every the right to be on the road and the responsibility to follow all applicable traffic laws. Anyone who says otherwise must have a...well, fourth grade education.

Lawrence Municipal Code 17-702

RIDING ON SIDEWALKS.

It shall be unlawful for any person to ride a bicycle upon any sidewalk within any business district within the City or upon any sidewalk within a distance of 100 feet from any store or business place or place of assembly or where specifically prohibited by posted sign. It shall not be unlawful for police officers or other law enforcement personnel assigned to bicycle patrol units to ride upon sidewalks while in the performance of their official duties. (Ord. 5172, 17-702, Ord. 7557)

Crossfire 7 years, 5 months ago

By default the bike rider is at fault for choosing to ride their bike on road where 2+ ton vehicles...Blab, Blab, Blah... By this reasoning when you get in your motor vehicle and are crushed by a 52 ton rock hauler... By default you, B3, are at fault for choosing to drive your little car on road where 52+ ton... ...well you get the idea.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

There is no minumum speed limit on these roads. And bikes ain't allowed on the Interstate.

And you can only be held liable if you are negligent. You are not responsible for no-fault accidents or accidents where the injured person is at fault.

Crossfire has the right of it.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

"why do i see these guys riding on 2-Lane highways with no shoulder, etc?"

Because they have a right to use the road just like everyone else.

However, I would agree with the proposition that all roads should be widened to accomodate paved and maintained shoulders that are also suitable for cyclists. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that all the whi.. - no, thats a neo-con thing - people who would lay blame on the cyclist merely for being a cyclist would oppose the additional costs.

Ragingbear 7 years, 5 months ago

I believe Denver has bike lanes on virtually every single one of their roads.

We run around whining about Obesity. We run around whining about cars and pollution and greenhouse gases. Yet people don't want to even allow bicycle riders on the roads because it might get in the way of them texting while driving? What a bunch of idiots.

yankeelady 7 years, 5 months ago

Well said Smitty. It fits almost all the paved county roads as well as 24. In the southern part of the county near head on collisions are a common occurrence as everyone tries to dodge the bicycles, who will not move. It amazes me that we haven't had more problems when you combine farm equipment, lake traffic and bicycles on these narrow county roads.

Steve Jacob 7 years, 5 months ago

NO no no! Bikes are legal on sidewalks in Lawrence, except downtown.

bige1030 7 years, 5 months ago

Bicycles ridden on highways and city streets ought to be equipped with battery powered (with optional solar panel for charging) turn signals, and they should be equipped with headlights and tail lights if they are ridden at night. This should be a law. That way, regardless of who is at fault in this accident, it could have been prevented - the bicyclist could have signalled his intention to turn left, and the truck driver could have slowed down so that he wouldn't hit the bicyclist. (Of course, this assumes that the bicyclist would use his turn signals, and we all know how often people don't use their turn signals when driving a car!)

Also, regardless of who is at fault in this accident, the bicyclist will get $4500 (at least) toward his medical expenses from either the truck driver's PIP coverage, or possibly his own if he owns a vehicle insured in Kansas. PIP is one of the good things about Kansas mandatory auto insurance - it offers a way to at least get some medical benefit paid regardless of who is at fault in an accident.

Who is at fault? That's the big question left unanswered in the article. It may well be the truck driver - after all, he came from behind and struck a turning bicyclist. It'd be kind of like rear-ending a car while it's turning in front of you.

But of course, with bicyclists, there's always the possibility that the bicyclist darted from the right side of the lane to the left to make the turn, with no time for the truck driver to react. If the accident was caused by the latter scenario, I'd envision that bicycle turn signals could have helped the truck driver know the bicyclist's intentions, so that he could act accordingly.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

Sorry, smitty, but if you pass when driving conditions are unsafe, and an accident ensues, you are at fault. If you can't see oncoming traffic well enough to pass a cyclist safely, then you wait till you can. Pretty simple, really.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

"This should be a law."

Huh.

Kansas Statutes:

8-1587. Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles.

Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this act, except as otherwise provided in K.S.A. 8-1586 to 8-1592, inclusive, and except as to those provisions of this act which by their nature can have no application.

8-1592. Lamps, brakes and other equipment on bicycles.

(a) Every bicycle when in use at nighttime shall be equipped with a lamp on the front which shall emit a white light visible from a distance of at least five hundred (500) feet to the front and with a red reflector on the rear of a type approved by the secretary of transportation which shall be visible from all distances from one hundred (100) feet to six hundred (600) feet to the rear when directly in front of lawful lower beams of head lamps on a motor vehicle. A lamp emitting a red light visible from a distance of five hundred (500) feet to the rear may be used in addition to the red reflector.

(b) Every bicycle shall be equipped with a brake which will enable the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement.

(c) No person shall sell a pedal for use on a bicycle, unless such pedal is equipped with a reflector of a type approved by the secretary of transportation which is visible from the front and rear of the bicycle to which it is attached during darkness from a distance of two hundred (200) feet, and no person shall sell a new bicycle, unless it is equipped with pedals meeting the requirements of this subsection.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

Oh and...

8-1590. Riding on bicycles or mopeds; riding on roadways and bicycle paths.

(a) Every person operating a bicycle or a moped upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable, except under any of the following situations when: (1) Overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction; (2) preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway; or (3) reasonably necessary to avoid conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving bicycles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or narrow width lanes that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand edge of the roadway.

(b) Any person operating a bicycle or a moped upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near to the left side of the roadway as practicable.

(c) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast, except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.

(d) Wherever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway.

(e) For purposes of this section, "narrow width lane" means a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

Cyclists are required to use hand signals when turning. If he was signalling, then the driver of the truck should have been attentive enough to see it and allow the bike to turn. So, if the cyclist signaled, then the driver was at fault. If not, then the cyclist was at fault.

FWIW, when I'm riding in a similar circumstance, I make sure that the drivers behind me are aware of me and what I am intending to do before trusting that they are paying attention-- because unfortunately, way too many drivers really aren't paying enough attention way too much of the time. That's why 40,000 people die on our roads every year (and, relatively speaking, almost none of those deaths involve bicycles.)

Richard Heckler 7 years, 5 months ago

Take a honeymoon on a bicycle..we did. What a way to meet nice people. With the help of a pick up truck who picked us out in the middle of nowhere oklahoma..wife's knees were getting sore... and took us to Albuquerque where we spent 3 weeks cycling and staying with friends. What fun.

Then we boarded a train,which had a club car, that took us to downtown LA...culture shock. Visited an nearby art fair then cycled to the beach which took a while got a room and some hot steamed veggies...yumo. Stayed in a youth hostel for awhile which found us being the only americans in the hostel most of the time ... a great experience.

Three weeks later or so we cycled south to San Diego. Visited friends,had some fun and spent a week or so in another youth hostel. Then found ourselves assisting a person sailing to Cabo San Lucas ..... stored our bikes at the hostel. Two weeks later back to San Diego after hitching a ride with an LA cop.

A lady needed help driving to Connecticut who just happened to have a three bike carrier and off we went. Stopped off in New Orleans then off to Baltimore to visit the new in-laws . Put our bikes on a train in Maryland going to KCMO to visit my sister. The back to Tulsa.

Leaving the car behind opened lots of doors to making friends on the road.

imastinker 7 years, 5 months ago

most unmoving obstructions in roads are much larger and easier to see. They are not poorly lit on the shoulder. Further, the problem is not always just the bicyclist, but another car coming from the opposite direction as well. That's when it gets tight. You may see the cyclist and plan on using the other lane when another car comes over a hill or around a corner and then you have to hit the brakes.

In this case there wasn't much shoulder for the guy to stop and look both ways before crossing.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

" so I'm not hostile to bicycling per se-especially as a means of transportation (rather than an ego-pumping ride from point A back to point A just to obstruct traffic and brag over your wheat beer that you rode a "century" today). (Oops, did I think that or did I write it?)"

Clearly, you are quite hostile. Get some counseling.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

none2--

I see nothing wrong with riding on the pavement. You just have to be very aware of the traffic coming up behind you (and at you,) and whether or not they are paying attention and/or respecting your right to be there. If they aren't, be prepared to leave the pavement in order to save your own a**.

But I agree, when making a left turn, the safest thing to do is to get off the road until traffic clears, and then make the turn. On a highway, especially if riding by myself, that is exactly what I would do.

tvc 7 years, 5 months ago

On a lighter note, how many typos can you spot in this LJWorld caption?

"Richard Gwin/ Journal World Photo .A Kansas Hhighway Patrol Trooper gets some help from a Douglas County Deputy Sheriff this morning at US highway 32-42 and county road 1600 e, two miles east of the Lawrence Airport, where a bycycle was turning left, and was struck by a truck. The bycyclist was air lfted to Kansas City."

gontek 7 years, 5 months ago

when riding a bike look out for guys named leroy who drive trucks.

David Klamet 7 years, 5 months ago

Even if 99.99% of all drivers were extremely attentive and respecful of cyclists, there will still be the .01% who are going to drive by all too often while talking on a cell phone, arguing with their girlfriend/boyfriend, or tired, or drunk....
I'd like a greener world with fewer cars and more bikes, but the reality is that allowing speeding cars in close proximately to slow, vulnerable cyclists is not a good idea
Who lets their kids ride their bikes on the highway? I don't think the big fear is their swerving out into traffic. It is, I believe, a lack of trust in all those drivers. I make a sincere effort to be attentive and respectful to cyclists and other drivers, however I wouldn't trust my life to someone as careful as I. And if you, or someone you care about, is hurt or killed, who really cares who was at fault?

Thankfully, and to my amazement, these accidents don't seem to happen very often. But how often is "too" often?

fletch 7 years, 5 months ago

It amazes me how anti-cyclist a lot of Kansans are. Living in Texas, I love how when I'm out riding on rural highways, cars will slow down while passing you, give you plenty of room, and even wave to say hi. I've run into very few people who honk or try to drive up on you to scare you. Yet when I go biking in Kansas (a state that is generally friendlier in all other circumstances), people honk, throw cans out the window, scream obscenities, or generally just try to make your life miserable. I still wonder at how much of an inconvenience it is for them to move 3 feet over to pass you. It's never in a situation where there is a lot of traffic or cars coming the other way. It just strikes me as odd, as do a lot of these comments where people almost seem to take pride at wanting to hurt cyclists. Maybe I missed that day at church when we were talking about being kind to your fellow man... except when he's on a bike, and then it's free game to try to hurt him. As I said... it's just odd, and kind of sad.

Emily Hadley 7 years, 5 months ago

"It is legal to ride bikes on the sidewalks within a residential area."

Where did you get that information? Read your standard traffic ordinance. http://web.ci.lawrence.ks.us/legal_services/citycode/2005%20sto%20lawrence%20(integrated).html#_Toc112572514 ~~ Section 1. Definitions Vehicle: Every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except electric personal assistive mobility devices or devices moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. ~ ~~ Sec. 116. Driving Upon Sidewalk.

No person shall drive any vehicle upon a sidewalk or sidewalk area except upon a permanent or duly authorized temporary driveway. (K.S.A. 8Â--1575) ~ ~~ Sec. 128. Traffic Laws Apply to Persons Riding Bicycles.

Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this ordinance, except as otherwise provided in Sections 127 to 133, inclusive, of this article and except as to those provisions of this ordinance which by their nature can have no application. (K.S.A. 8-1587) ~ ~~ Sec. 131. Riding on Roadways and Bicycle Paths.

(a) Every person operating a bicycle or a moped upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable, except under any of the following situations when:

(1) Overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction;

(2) Preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway; or

(3) Reasonably necessary to avoid conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving bicycles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or narrow width lanes that make it unsafe to continue along the right hand edge of the roadway. ~~~

If you are a cyclist, it is a very good idea to keep a copy of the traffic ordinance with you at all times. You can get a handy pocket-sized version. Coppers are often quite ignorant or plain wrong about the laws and car drivers obviously have all sorts of crazy ideas about where we are supposed to ride our bikes. If you have it, you can often show coppers the ordinance that protects your rights when they are mistaken.

Notice, 131.a.3 says that bikes have the right to the whole lane when the road is too narrow for them to safely ride on the right of traffic. That means you can ride in the center or left edge of the lane when, say, going down Mass, which is narrow and has constant serious hazards from cars backing out on the right side.

Emily Hadley 7 years, 5 months ago

This accident took place outside the city limits, thus municipal traffic laws do not apply. And of course there are no sidewalks through the corn fields on the little two-lane highway, which has cyclists on it every single day. This was right past the fruit stand near the airport. Anyone who commutes from Tonganoxie knows that there are always cyclists on it. Not that it means you can't make a sudden or dumb move on a bike, this is a very open, flat, high visibility area. I always move far enough from cyclists, such that if they hit a rock or anything else that could make them fall or swerve at all, they will not end up under my car. Many motorists do not take this precaution and graze by them.

I hope the kid recovers!!

Emily Hadley 7 years, 5 months ago

It shall be unlawful for any person to ride a bicycle upon any sidewalk within any business district within the City or upon any sidewalk within a distance of 100 feet from any store or business place or place of assembly or where specifically prohibited by posted sign. It shall not be unlawful for police officers or other law enforcement personnel assigned to bicycle patrol units to ride upon sidewalks while in the performance of their official duties. (Ord. 5172, 17-702, Ord. 7557)

This is my favorite part of the local law -- bicycle coppers can ride on the sidewalks wherever they want. You on your bike, however, are a threat to pedestrians. Thank god coppers here don't bike like they drive, or we'd have pedestrians laid out every weekend.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

"No person shall drive any vehicle upon a sidewalk or sidewalk area except upon a permanent or duly authorized temporary driveway. (K.S.A. 8Â--1575)"

Does NOT apply to bicycles. However, the municipal code does limit cyclists' use of sidewalks in Lawrence.

"K.S.A. 8-1575 obviously does not apply to bicycles, as it prohibits any person from driving a vehicle on a sidewalk, and a bicycle is not a vehicle. See K.S.A. 8-1405 and 8-1485. The court found the statute applied to Schallenberger, however, through the operation of K.S.A. 8-1587, which provides that every person riding a bicycle is subject to all the duties of a driver of a vehicle. This rule applies only to persons riding a bicycle on a roadway. However, according to Schallenberger's theory, she was not on the roadway. Roadway is defined as the improved portion of the highway used for vehicular travel. K.S.A. 8-1459. Thus, we see the specific statutes applying vehicular rules to bicycles do so only when the bicyclist is using the roadway."

Schallenberger v. Rudd, 244 Kan. 230, 234 (1989.)

There are other interesting tidbits in that case for Kansas cyclists as well.

Chris Golledge 7 years, 5 months ago

Hmm, well, as long as we are playing a blame game, let's look at what we know.

Bicycles, where allowed, are given the same traffic rights as other vehicles.
Both vehicles are heading east and the one in front is making a left turn; therefore, even if sidewalks existed, they would immaterial. How would you make a left turn and stay on the sidewalk? (And I'm talking about making a left turn as a vehicle as opposed to walking your bike across the road at an intersection as a pedestrian would walk across an intersection. Riding your bike, but following rules for pedestrians, is illegal.) Suppose both vehicles were motorized; if you ram into someone from behind while they are making a left turn, who's fault is it generally? What if they are stopped for some reason, probably unknown to you, and you hit them from behind? When you are operating a dangerous piece of equipment (like a motorized vehicle); the bulk of the responsibility for the safety of those around lies with you.

The only way it could be the cyclist fault is if he changed direction and/or speed too suddenly for the truck driver to respond. That is not told in the article; so, we don't know.

B3, your views represent either an ignorant moron or a clever troll.

Confrontation 7 years, 5 months ago

I'd like to ban all bikes other than tandem bikes. Any man on a bike must have his wife, girlfriend, or sister riding behind him. Then, every time he goes to make a stupid decision, she can make him regret the day he was born. There. Problem solved.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

"Then, every time he goes to make a stupid decision, she can make him regret the day he was born."

Why do you think so many men are out there riding the bike? It ain't the exercise, sister. It's the peace and quiet.

chemegirlie 7 years, 5 months ago

my thoughts and prayers go out to both individuals

I have no problem with cyclists as long as they obey the laws. I slow down when I see them until I can safely pass them giving them plenty of room. I try to be sure we both stay safe...however....

I was driving south on Tennessee in the left lane one day and a biker in the right lane made a left turn right in front of me. I slammed hard on the brakes (or I woud have hit him). When I did, my arm hit the steering wheel and honked the horn (it actually was an accident, not on purpose. my horn is touchy). The biker turned around and flipped me off! those are the bikers that p!ss me off!

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

" I was driving south on Tennessee in the left lane one day and a biker in the right lane made a left turn right in front of me. I slammed hard on the brakes (or I woud have hit him). When I did, my arm hit the steering wheel and honked the horn (it actually was an accident, not on purpose. my horn is touchy). The biker turned around and flipped me off! those are the bikers that p!ss me off!"

Me, too.

imastinker 7 years, 5 months ago

I drive that road somewhat frequently. While going the speed limit, it is easy to go around a corner and see a bike and ahve to slam on the brakes to avoid coming within a foot or so of him. It's a small road with limited visibility. Two cars is OK, but two cars and a bike is very scary, and it's happened several times. The bikers I usually see are recreational bikers getting soem exercise, and are usually very courteous and obey laws, but the road is too small and dangerous for this.

I'm so sorry to hear about this.

JoRight 7 years, 5 months ago

For the 2-3 years I rode my bike everyday (weather permitting) I stayed off the road as much as possible and only road on it when it was absolutely needed. It is safe to say that bikers must be more aware of their sorroundings than the drivers b/c of the few "bike accidents" I witnessed or saw the aftermath, it was indeed the bikers' fault. . .mostly b/c of "their right to the road as much as cars" which is b.s.

It is not safe to run, walk, bike etc in a street where moving cars are. Plain and simple. The consequences are going to be far worse, and every biker should accept this when they go out into the street.

I'm not trying to say the biker had it coming, b/c, obviously, I do not know the facts of the accident, but, like any other decision in life, you have to accept / weigh the consequences / risks associated with a decision. I, for one, didnt feel like "my right to ride on the street" outweighed that of getting injured in an accident.

My 2 cents.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

Whether it be wise or prudent, it is absolutely not arguable that cyclists have "their right to the road as much as cars" with few exceptions.

This is not b.s. It is fact. Statutory, written-in-black fact.

Now - whether exercising that right is wise is another question altogether. Whether it was wise in this instance is absolutely beyond our judgment at this point as the whole of the facts are not yet known.

Chris Golledge 7 years, 5 months ago

":there are turns or hills on the hiway that put you on the tail of a bicyclist faster than you can react:"

It's the driver's responsibility to limit their speed to the distance they can see and stop within. Period. If there were some unmoving obstruction in the road and you ran into it because you couldn't stop in time after you saw it...well, whose foot was on the gas?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"...there are turns or hills on the hiway that put you on the tail of a bicyclist faster than you can react..."

If a driver is obeying speed limit laws (55 mph or less) I can't think of any roads in this area where this is true, unless the driver's ability to react is impaired enough (for whatever reason) that they really ought to consider giving up their driver's licence.

moveforward 7 years, 5 months ago

I have been riding bikes for years. Nothing pisses me off more than to see a biker disobeying traffic laws... especially the stop light manuver along side of the stopped vehicles. Of course, we need to train our local bike police of this as well. They do it downtown quite frequently.

Linda Endicott 7 years, 5 months ago

Bige, it's already a law that anyone riding a bike at night use a headlight and reflectors.

However, I find very few bicycle riders who do this. I've lost count of how many times I've come across a bike at night with no lights, no or ineffective reflectors, and the rider was wearing dark clothing.

I've had to slam on the brakes many times. It's a very frightening experience.

Doesn't really matter at this point who was at fault. The cyclist hopefully will be okay, and a little more cautious in the future. Same with the driver of the truck.

Hope both are okay.

Emily Hadley 7 years, 5 months ago

Cars always speed on Tennessee, especially the left lane. I see someone visibly shooting radar on it every few days. I can see why someone would have to get across quickly when turning.

imastinker 7 years, 5 months ago

Bozo - the speed limit is 65 there, and it absolutely happens that you come up on a biker very fast when coming around a corner. That road is DANGEROUS to be bicycling on, even when drivers are obeying the speed limits. It's hilly and curvy, with trees and brush limiting view. Cars are much more visible, with lights and size to help visibility.

kcchiefmatt 7 years, 5 months ago

It is perfectly legal for people to ride bicycles on any sidewalk in Lawrence as long as they are not within 100 feet of a store or business, place of assembly or where there is a sign posted. I just don't understand why riders want to risk serious injury by not using sidewalks. When I ride I'm always on the sidewalk. Here is the law:

17-702 RIDING ON SIDEWALKS.

It shall be unlawful for any person to ride a bicycle upon any sidewalk within any business district within the City or upon any sidewalk within a distance of 100 feet from any store or business place or place of assembly or where specifically prohibited by posted sign. It shall not be unlawful for police officers or other law enforcement personnel assigned to bicycle patrol units to ride upon sidewalks while in the performance of their official duties. (Ord. 5172, 17-702, Ord. 7557)

kj 7 years, 5 months ago

I hate it when you are driving on a two lane twisting road with hills, and you come over the hill and there is a group riding and they are taking the whole road up. I think they make it dangerous for everyone.

janeyb 7 years, 5 months ago

I don't mind bicycles on a highway when it is their only option. I hate when they have safer options through neighborhoods, paved backroads etc. and choose to be on the highway.

Coming into Kansas City from the east this weekend I passed a bicycle on I-70 -- riding on the shoulder in the dark. How crazy!

Eddie Muñoz 7 years, 5 months ago

Seems the simple answer would be to pay attention to the world around you - for both the drivers and the cyclists.

Linda Endicott 7 years, 5 months ago

That was one that you should have reported, Janeyb...bicycles are prohibited on interstate highways. Even people whose cars have broken down on the interstate and managed to make it to the shoulder have been hit while waiting for help.

I agree with you, murphy59...no matter what vehicle you're using, pay attention...

imastinker 7 years, 5 months ago

Drivers should always pay attention. But if you read how it happened, the one bike cut off the truck on 24-40 and the other cut out in traffic. These are not the drivers fault. Lawrence avenue is fairly safe, but 24-40 is not.

Emily Hadley 7 years, 5 months ago

How exactly does a bike "cut off" a truck going 60 mph? The truck would have been approaching the bike in full visibility for the previous half-mile.

For anyone pushing for riding on the sidewalks, um, have you SEEN our sidewalks? Have you read the city reports on how bad they are? I live in East Lawrence, and my half of my block is the only portion of my entire walk where there is a decent sidewalk. In the dark, there are gaping holes, missing bricks, uneven sections, muddy trenches, chained dogs, parked cars, and unlit areas with overgrown hedges covering the path. I am not about to take my nice road bike with its inch-wide, 120-psi tires on a 100-year old brick sidewalk in the dark. It's about as manageable as driving up a gravel hill on endless washboard ruts with four donut tires. The roads are constructed to be safe, fluid paths for traveling fast on wheels. Bikes have all the rights and responsibilities that cars do on the road--accept it, deal with it safely and legally, and move on. There are by NO means more bad cyclists than there are bad drivers, nor are they more dangerous.

imastinker 7 years, 5 months ago

"Law enforcement officials said a 20-year-old Lawrence man was riding a bicycle east on 24-40 when he started to turn left onto 1600 East Road in front of a white 1990 Ford Ranger pickup.

Straight from the article above. So the guy was riding on the shoulder, the car was coming, and probably saw him. The guy cuts left and the driver has no time to react. It looks like the skid marks are about 10' long in the picture. THe bicyclist probably never saw or heard him coming. Anyone else interpret this differently?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

As I stated previously, who is at fault in this accident depends on whether the cyclist was signalling his turn. If he was, then the driver wasn't paying attention, and passed in a clearly dangerous way. If the cyclist failed to signal, then the driver was unaware of his intent to turn, and was merely attempting to pass a slow-moving vehicle, and the cyclist was at fault.

There is not enough information in this article to know one way or the other.

imastinker 7 years, 5 months ago

Bozo - you are right, he may have signaled his intentions, fulfilling the legal requirement to turn. And I don't know.

Informed, I have driven that highway somewhat regularly since I was a young child, and I have never seen a cyclist that didn't ride on the shoulder. It's a natural assumption.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

I guess it depends on how you define riding on the shoulder. I would not want to ride on gravel with a road bike, but as required by law, I would ride as far to the right as is possible while staying on the pavement, which might be just to the left of the lane marker. If there is a fairly wide paved shoulder, I would ride a few inches to the right of the lane marker.

countrygirl 7 years, 5 months ago

What's up with all the accidents in the area in the past 2 days? Somebody do something to cause some bad ju-ju? Please everybody, be a little extra careful out there no matter what you're steering.

Linda Endicott 7 years, 5 months ago

You're also assuming about the amount of damage to the truck, Informed. You have no way of knowing whether part of the damage was already there, or if it's all from this accident.

If it's all from this accident, I suspect the rider of the bike is in pretty serious condition.

allateup 7 years, 5 months ago

Cyclist should be required to tag their bicycle and carry at the very least liability insurance if they wish to ride on highways

Linda Aikins 7 years, 5 months ago

"I sense much gnashing of teeth to ensue. Here come the armchair CSI folks!"

Wiser words were never "spoken" TOB.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"Cyclist should be required to tag their bicycle and carry at the very least liability insurance if they wish to ride on highways"

Given that actuarially speaking, cycles are pretty much a non-factor in being involved in serious accidents, the premium would be less than the stamps required to mail it in.

allateup 7 years, 5 months ago

bozo - "being in a serious accident" isn't all i'm talking about. If your riding a bicycle to get healthy there are PLENTY of places to do it without riding on major highways. They are putting themselves and the car/truck in danger too.

David Klamet 7 years, 5 months ago

In respectful response to Informed who said: "But, dklamet, by your reasoning, none of us should drive motorized vehicles on the highway either, ..."

Our roads and highways are already pretty dangerous places, exposed on a bicycle pushes the risk over what is acceptable to most people (or so I believe) and I reiterate, any risk you wouldn't expose a child to, should at least cause one to think twice.

Maybe it's just as I get older, I see too many people needlessly hurt, and get more careful.

Laura Watkins 7 years, 5 months ago

I agree that cars and bikes should share the road and both bicyclists and drivers should be cautious around each other. My question is, how do i actually find out whether or not it's legal to ride my bike on the sidewalk. I don't ride my bike at night because I get nervous about riding in the street and I've been told you can't ride on the sidewalks so I just don't. There are lots of people arguing on here about whether or not that's the rule and I can't figure it out from the laws quoted on the forum (about downtown vs. around town sidewalks)....anyone know how I can find out what the law really is?

Emily Hadley 7 years, 5 months ago

STANDARD TRAFFIC ORDINANCE FOR KANSAS CITIES Edition of 2005 As amended by the ordinances of the City of Lawrence, Kansas:

http://web.ci.lawrence.ks.us/legal_services/citycode/2005%20sto%20lawrence%20(integrated).html#_Toc112572514

Local (Lawrence) traffic laws:

http://web.ci.lawrence.ks.us/legal_services/citycode/chapter17.html

Bicycles are included in all laws for vehicles unless specified. KSTO Definitions: Vehicle: Every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except electric personal assistive mobility devices or devices moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

Look, anti-scientologist, there are statutes which I copied and pasted above that apply and there are Lawrence ordinances that apply that I also pasted above. The Lawrence ordinances are BASED on the standard traffic ordinances, but they differ in some places.

To get to the heart of it, though:

"Lawrence Municipal Code 17-702. Riding on sidewalks.

"It shall be unlawful for any person to ride a bicycle upon any sidewalk within any business district within the City or upon any sidewalk within a distance of 100 feet from any store or business place or place of assembly or where specifically prohibited by posted sign. It shall not be unlawful for police officers or other law enforcement personnel assigned to bicycle patrol units to ride upon sidewalks while in the performance of their official duties. (Ord. 5172, 17-702, Ord. 7557)"

The laws that apply to you within the city limits are the Lawrence ordinances and the Kansas statutes. There is also some case law that defines some aspects about apparant conflicts between the ordinances and the statutes. I copied and pasted certain portions of that case above as well. To read it yourself copy and paste the cite into Google.

In any case, don't rely on me or Ms. Hadley. Read it yourself or, better, sit down with an attorney and get a written opinion. Submit the question to the AG's office for a formal opinion. Or try to get the city attorney to issue a formal opinion.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

"Bicycles are included in all laws for vehicles unless specified."

No. Stop saying that. Under Kansas law ""...a bicycle is not a vehicle. See K.S.A. 8-1405 and 8-1485." Schallenberger v. Rudd, 244 Kan. 230, 234 (1989.)

Go to accesskansas.org, head to the legislative section, and look up K.S.A. 8-1405 and 1485.

Even the KSTO says that its definition of veicles does NOT include bikes:

"Vehicle. Every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, EXCEPT...DEVICES MOVED BY HUMAN POWER."

Emily Hadley 7 years, 5 months ago

"Bicycles are included in all laws for vehicles unless specified."

Sec. 128. Traffic Laws Apply to Persons Riding Bicycles.

Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this ordinance, except as otherwise provided in Sections 127 to 133, inclusive, of this article and except as to those provisions of this ordinance which by their nature can have no application. (K.S.A. 8-1587)

Bicycles are included in all laws for vehicles unless specified.

purplesage 7 years, 5 months ago

Double standard for police again? So if I step out of the downtown shop and get clipped by a PD on a bike, I guess it won't hurt? Like driving pell-mell through town on a chase and causing a wreck.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"Bicycles should not be allowed on any road where the speed limit is in excess of 35 mph, period."

Interesting idea. But if the goal is to make our roads and single-occupancy-vehicle-based transportation system truly safe, 90% of all streets and roads should have speed limits reduced to 35 mph or less.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"Well, that's just silly."

Really? Pretty much daily there are multiple highway deaths within a hundred fifty miles or less from Lawrence (and you can pick about any other spot on the map where this would hold true,) and they almost never involve bicycles. So, this isn't a matter of safety. It's a matter of your annoyance at having to occasionally adjust your driving to accommodate someone on a bicycle.

countrygirl 7 years, 5 months ago

I have the right to go and be in lots of places. That doesn't mean that all of them are smart places for me to be in though. Everyone has to weigh their choices. If you don't feel safe in that dark alley, or riding a bike on a narrow hilly road, then you won't be there. But there will always be people who try those options. They'll be fine sometimes, but there will always be that one time that something happens. Then who's fault is it? The mugger? The driver who just plain didn't see you? Or the person who chose to put themself in that place at that time. Just something to think about.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"Then who's fault is it? The mugger? The driver who just plain didn't see you? Or the person who chose to put themself in that place at that time. Just something to think about."

I'll add one more-- the woman who wears sexy, revealing clothing, or her rapist?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"This is a truly bad comparison. By far the lagest percent of vehicles on the highways are motorized vehicles, so your point has no point."

Your point is that riding bicycles on highways is dangerous. If it's so dangerous, why are there so few accidents such as the one this article describes.

countrygirl 7 years, 5 months ago

Didn't Johnson County outlaw bicyles from a stretch of old 10 a few years back? Or is that even still in effect? Somebody thinks it's not safe to mix cars and bikes on narrow, hilly roads.

packrat 7 years, 5 months ago

I think that a driver's license should be required for bicyclists before they can ride on the streets.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

"Because, once again, the vast majority of vehicles, and I mean the vast majority, are motorized vehicles. Didn't I say this already?"

Yes. You did. But without supporting facts and data it is just a truism, not an explanation. It is not your assertion that makes no sense. It is the "because" that precedes it.

If you had numbers that would allow us to compare the percentage of accidents per capita your attempt at an explanation may have validity. Or it may not. However, without such data there is no way to know.

So: how many cyclists are there on the road at a given time compared to the number of motor vehicles and what is the accident rate for both sets?

44x15 7 years, 5 months ago

What I remember from driver's ed is that while operating a motor vehicle, I should keep my attention on the road and always expect the unexpected, constantly scan the roadway, and practice defensive driving.

But then again, I didn't take that class in Lawrence... doesn't seem to apply here.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

Wow, Defender, I am sorry I asked you to support your conclusions with some sort of logical reasoning based on known facts and data. How logical of me.

Conclusions based on assumptions and "common sense" are often wrong. Our biologically-based conceptual shortcuts are great in situations requiring immediate reaction to sensory signals or situations involving few facets and of low complexity; however, they are of relatively little use in more complicated situations.

I have been a cyclist since I was 12. I have been driving (legally) since 14. In my experience, cycling is the safer mode of travel when done with forethought and a modicum of caution.

A bright line rule ("It is unsafe for bicyclists to be on roads that have speed limits over 35 mph.") regarding the safety and practicality of cycling is stupid. A qualified rule recognizing the vagaries and complexity of the situation ("Just practice safety and don't ride where the traffic is dangerous.") is not stupid. Nice to see the evolution of your reasoning is the span of two or three posts. No need to thank me.

Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 7 years, 5 months ago

I live on a rural road south of town where a lot of these various bike rides are run and I detest these bicyclists. They ride several abreast at slow speeds blocking the lane and forcing motorists to wait until they can pass in the opposite lane to pass. Even then these arrogant bistards will make rude gestures at the motorists. They're arrogant, rude and deliberately go out of their way to inconvenience the people who live in the area and have to maneuver around them to get where they're going. I just wish they'd stay the hell in their own neighborhoods.

Same thing in town. I'm driving down 6th St and a cyclist is riding dead center in the lane at a snail's pace. I ride motorcycle, so I'm always on the look out for bikes, but some of these punks go out of their way to ask someone to run over them and I have no sympathy for them when it happens.

neuropenguin 7 years, 5 months ago

Just a little reminder, cyclists DO have the RIGHT to take the lane when traffic, speed, or safety considerations make it necessary. So stop complaining... "omg it's going to take me an extra 45 secs to get where I'm going because I have to wait to pass a cyclist!!!" Seriously folks, that's ridiculous on multiple levels. Try going to Davis, CA sometime ("bicycle city", my heaven), cars and bikes get along just fine there on all types of roads. Of course they also have dedicated bike lanes, crossings and paths everywhere.

Baille 7 years, 5 months ago

Oh, goody. Now is it my turn to call you names, Defender? Maybe we could escalate that into a pushing contest or the popular impotent-rage slap fight.

Whatever. I have been riding for over 30 years and never been in an accident with a motor vehicle yet. I must be "lucky."

Finding no substance in your threads beyond the mere repetition of truisms and conclusory statements, I am done responding to you. Enjoy the low road, Defender. Hope you like the company.

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