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DonnieDarko (Anonymous) says…

“Conservative board member Kathy Martin said she hopes the board can work together and perhaps set in place science standards that both sides can agree on. 'Perhaps we can find the right compromise on it,' she said.”

********

Sure, Kathy…just like all the compromises brokered by you and your fellow conservative idiots for the past 2 years.

Oh, and Kathy? Perhaps not. :-)

rwales (Anonymous) says…

Let me get this right teachers will no longer be allowed to teach some of the questions and weaknesses about evolution only the strengths and as a professor put it” don't question evolution.” When I was young we were not allowed to question God but the foundation of all science was questions and then the search for the answers, now we must question God and search for answers and not question science. So who is God? God and evolution seems to have switched places. If evolution is right then it would be able to with stand the scrutiny. It seems to me that the logical next step in evolution is that a sociaty would become advanced to where they would try to reproduce life in a test tube. They would start by cloning say maybe a sheep and then humans and then they would have to develope a space program to carry these cells of life to another planet but that would be intellegent design and our teachers tell us that there is no such thing. It makes for a good Star Trek movie but there is no intelligent life down here Scotty.

The_Original_Bob (Anonymous) says…

““What I would like to see done is to revisit all 6-4 decisions,” \

Sweet.

justthefacts (Anonymous) says…

Anyone know - does Corkin have a “golden parachute” in his contract? (Meaning he would get paid lots of $$$ even if he is fired?)…..

WilburM (Anonymous) says…

For supporters of a reasonable school board, and well-considered, consistent policies, the best thing (short of making the Secretary of Education an appointed Cabinet position) would be for moderates and Governor Sebelius to work hard to defeat the 2 R conservatives who received only about 50 percent of the vote in their own primary on Tuesday. Having Weiss (D) defeat Bacon and Wempe(D) defeat Willard in Nov. would mean a solid 8-2 majority and the potential for some reaoned, long-term planning. Sebelius, of course, has her own fish to fry, but raising the visibility and the stakes of these races would be reasonably inexpensive and truly valuable for a strong Board of Education.

LarryFarma (Anonymous) says…

On the Uncommon Descent blog, blogger William Dembski said,

>>>>>>>>>>
Since 1999, Kansas has now swung four times on the question of science standards and whether evolutionary theory should be properly scrutinized or swallowed whole. Below is the latest. This war will not be decided by courts, legislators, or school boards, but by young people as they wake up to the fact that dogmatic Darwinists have been systematically indoctrinating and disenfranchising them. Just as the counterculture of the 60s overturned the status quo, so a new counterculture, with high school, college, and university students taking the lead, will overturn the Darwinian status quo.

Evolution Opponents Lose in Kansas Primary
By John Hanna
Associated Press
posted: 02 August 2006

Control of the school board has slipped into, out of and back into conservative Republicans’ hands since 1998, resulting in anti-evolution standards in 1999, evolution-friendly ones in 2001 and anti-evolution ones again last year.
>>>>>>>>>>

He's is right. For years, critics of Darwinism have been banging their heads against a wall in a futile effort to get legislators, school boards, and the courts to allow the mildest scientific criticism of Darwinism in public-school science classrooms. It is time to get off this merry-go-round to hell and target the students themselves directly. Legislators, school board members, and judges are soon going to find themselves irrelevant. Like Bob Dylan said in the song, “The times, they are a-changin'.”

nugget (Anonymous) says…

Corkins needs to start updating his resume. I'd suggest he look for something in the $30K range as a “one-man think tank”. Oh, wait, that's what he was before this $140K gig.

DonnieDarko (Anonymous) says…

LarryFarma: “For years, critics of Darwinism have been banging their heads against a wall…”

You know, I think that explains a lot, Larry. You and your fellow ID-iots can't be entirely blamed for your views. It's obviously trauma-induced.

LarryFarma: “It is time to get off this merry-go-round to hell…”

Gawd, I love that. Are you sure you didn't steal that off the display at the fire-and-brimstone church just east of the Kasold curve? That sounds like some of the priceless sound-bites that they dream up.

Oh, one more thing. The “young people” are embarrassed by the actions of the uber-conservative right wing. You are right that “the times, they are a-changin'”…however, you and your fellow blog-idiot Dembski couldn't be more wrong about the current direction.

Roadkill_Rob (Anonymous) says…

First off, I'll preface this blog by saying that I'm an agnostic who tends to lean towards evolution…I don't know, I guess if we're forced to take sides, evolution just makes more sense to me than a God sitting on some clouds and a devil who lives underground w/ a pitchfork.

That being said, I would hope that these right-wing nuts who are trying to get a philosophy taught in a science class give up since they've lost twice now. There's no place for it in science, period!!! But I know they will not.

Kathy Martin says, “Perhaps we can find the right compromise on it.”

Although a compromise isn't really deserving since the Cons ignored pleas by the other side, I believe that it is the best course of action. My compromise would be to update the curriculum as a whole since the current one seems to be based on the 1950s. Keep teaching evolution in science. Create a junior/senior level philosophy class that can teach ID along w/ other religions since religion seems to be so important to the world. While they're at it, why not make it a requirement for upper level math classes to teach about how credit cards work and how to pay taxes, but I digress.

Oh, and Larryfarma, please don't quote Bob Dylan anymore…especially an over-used quote like that.

And rwales, teaching evolution will not lead to human cloning…it's ideas like this that helped you become the laughingstock of the country. Your the ones that can't “withstand the scrutiny.”

tolawdjk (Anonymous) says…

LarryFarma,

I think it can be said with 100% certainty that scientists would relish the opportunity to debate even the “mildest scientific critisism of Evolution” but your crowd can't even come up with the mildest of scientific critisisims.

At best, you have offered half science or “science” based on definitions that allow astrology, alchemy, and Hogwarts School of Wizardry.

DonnieDarko (Anonymous) says…

Wasn't “Merry-Go-Round to Hell” a Pat Benatar song? :-)

hobb2264 (Anonymous) says…

Larry,

I think Christians should go another direction…next time your child comes home from a public school exclaiming that his/her science teacher taught them about the “big bang” or the “origins of life” call your lawyer and file a lawsuit against the school district and/or state for promoting a religion. Both of these “theories” are based just as much on a person's belief system as ID or creationism…therefore they are in the realm of religion (naturalism, materialism, environmentalism, whatever you want to call it) and not science.

Let teachers teach real science in the classroom and parents teach belief system at home….

Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

DonnieDarko, I think you're a bit mixed-up…

Merry-go-rounds are usually enjoyed by children… and Pat Benetar said (or sang) that “Hell Is For Children.”

I hope this clears up any confusion on the issue. :)

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com

P.S. And don't forget: “Love is a Battlefield”

DonnieDarko (Anonymous) says…

Agnostick: You realize what this means, don't you? If merry-go-rounds are enjoyed by children, and if “Hell Is For Children”…and if Larry's right about this merry-go-round-to-hell…then children are all going to hell!!! The fundies have been right all along—it is written! :-)

bennyoates (Anonymous) says…

A very encouraging set of election results yesterday, but this is just the start. Everyone who supports reason and science should know that our opponents are unusually persistent, well-organized, and well-funded. We still have an evangelical President in charge of our nation for the next 2 years, plus. Now is the time to become even more committed to our principles, and to showing all Kansans, and the rest of the world, that we are the best people for the job of facilitating public education. The fundamentalist reactionaries will no go away, and we cannot rest on laurels that haven't even been earned yet.

For now, however, it is worth taking a few minutes to enjoy the fact that Connie Morris has been humbled and removed from power, and that Corkins's days in a job that he never should have been allowed to take are numbered. His ouster, like the end of the Bush presidency, can't come a moment too soon.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

Larryfarma: If the criticism was coming from people other than those pushing ID in order to “bring God back into the classroom” (which IS, in fact, why the ID movement was started in the first place) you'd probably have less resistence. At any rate, the holes in evolution are, in general, accepted by scientists, who continue to raise questions about the process and how it is applied, both academically and in real life. If the holes in Darwin's theory aren't really covered in high-school, riddle me this, how much emphasis and coverage is the entire theory of evolution given in the public schools at all? I went through high-school, including biology, and I think we went over the idea one day.

vanman (Anonymous) says…

Very valid points “rwales”
I am a firm believer in science and of a higher power, and with the way I look at things they do not contradict each other in the slightest. I don't know why these 2 are at each others throats, or religion at sciences throat. But I do believe that science class should be just that. A class about science, not vague inclusions of philosophies.

vanman (Anonymous) says…

LarryFarma,
Guy you are way off. I personally see no problem with pointing out the gaps in evolution because those gaps are the areas that our future scientists can work on filling in. Science is a process of piecing facts together and stepping back and looking at the groups of facts as a whole to come to the most reasoned conclusion based on those facts. You said “t best, you have offered half science or “science” based on definitions that allow astrology, alchemy, and Hogwarts School of Wizardry.” But I say science is not a half science just because all the facts have not been gathered. Its insulting to hear you suggest that astrology is any kind of science, and you seem to forget that your side has failed to present ANY scientific evidence to support your feelings. no scientific evidence=not science

vanman (Anonymous) says…

By the way all, remember we reside in 4 dimensions, with time being the fourth. Thus the present is like a cross-section of these 4 dimensions. Any time in the past is also a cross-section. Thus if you look at time like a line connecting these cross sections, you can see that evolution is just part of that line that was created all at once. How it was created, man will never know, but whatever did it was a higher power than I or any of you. Call it god. Call it the big electron. Call it whatever. Just one question. Can't we all just get along?

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

This is such an insane debate…

The first ID proponent that can explain to me how to analyze ID by way of the scientific method gets the golden prize. The problem with ID is not necessarily that it lends itself to religious implications. The problem is that ID provides an answer to a question based on speculation.

Evolution is, based on observation, testing, and re-theorizing, the best known explanation fot the nature of life on our planet. Even if a creator was responsible for the initial “pop”, we have no information (outside of religious texts) that implies there is some creator managing the progression of life.

On that same issue, try thinking about this question:

If religion didn't exist, would the theory of ID even be possible? Because it is obvious that the notion of an intelligent designer was not completely original. It's not as if the first ID proponent formulated his theory using only the data from his experiments and observations…

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

“hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw”
====================================
Hey conman, just because you say it aloud as you type doesn't mean you have to include it in your post. Most of us here are familiar with you and are well aware that you have what we'll call “special needs”—we already assume that you are guffawing and carrying on as you type.

And remember, you're supposed to have your helmet and pads on when doing heavy thinking—we wouldn't want our wonderful intellectual debates to come to an end because you accidentally gave yourself an aneurysm hitting your head on the monitor.

75x55 (Anonymous) says…

logic - gorgeous question!

“If religion didn't exist, would the theory of ID even be possible?”

That's one of the best questions I've heard yet in this whole evo/ID flap.

Unfortunately, it's philosophical and would be tossed out without scientific merit.

GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…

Vanman said:

I don't know why these 2 are at each others throats.

****

The primary reason they are each others throats is that scientists, based on mountains of evidence, believe the earth is billions of years old, while creationists believe it is thousands of years old. It is impossible to reconcile fact with absurd fiction.

These ignorant people, like the six that used to be the majority on the KBOE, base their “science” on no evidence whatsoever except a myth that was passed down verbally for countless generations before finally being put into writing.

If we are going to base the teaching of science on myths, why not go with the Native American myth about the earth being on the back of a giant turtle or any of the other myths that primitive people came up with to explain what they lacked the knowledge to understand?

Kansas has lost credibility because we allowed such ignorant people to be elected to the KBOE. It has had a profound negative effect on our economy by causing educated people in the rest of the world to not take our State seriously.

Godot (Anonymous) says…

If the election had gone the other way, the JW headline would have been, “12.5% voter turnout puts cloud over election results.”

vanman (Anonymous) says…

Good points. Very logical LS4. Only one side of this argument has any itellectual ability. The other side seems to just be the kid with his fingers in his ears yelling “la la la, im not listening, la la”

But I would like to re-mention that time is just another dimension and that “progression” is merely following, or tracing, the line of time, and isn't actually drawing the line. Everything that is, has been, and will be is already in that line and we are merely part of it. So I don't think a creator would be “managing” it because it was already present. I guess look at it like this is all a painting. Its no longer a work in progress because its already been signed in the lower-right corner by who or whatever is responsible for being. But i do know its initials are NOT I.D., not the current belief of it anyway. At least that is how I see it.

vanman (Anonymous) says…

Look at conman try with all his might to use big words to impress us all! Just a little too obvious that he made a point to pick those words, straying far away from the vocabulary of his previous writings.

HEE_HAW and git-r-done

ds

vanman (Anonymous) says…

gop cons,

I understand and agree with everything you said. I was merely stating that there is NO contradiction with the two in the way I SEE and imagine and believe about them.

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

“You're a clown, try to give your profile name a little credit. Infuse a little logic.”
–––––––––––––

I would say that your quip was clever, but unfortunately every slow-witted moron that disagrees with me makes some comment to the effect of “you aren't fulfilling your name” or “you aren't being very logical, logicsound”, or my personal favorite, “your logic is not sound, logicsound”. I guess there is a minimal amount of originality in coming up with 20 different ways to make the same damn joke. Congratulations.

You don't know me. I am actually the epitome of serenity. That means I am not an angry person.

=======================================

75x55,

I think you missed the point. It is a good question only because it points out that ID is not science, but 'philosophy'. I guarantee that no other sector of science requires the existence of a dogmatic religion to be valid. And before you spout off about the dogma of Darwin—there is no such thing. Last time I checked, no scientific theory includes a set of rules by which one governs themself. So even though ID proponents talk about the dogma of Darwin, it is only because they are trying to make two things that are very different seem similar—not because the term has any real meaning.

vanman (Anonymous) says…

Yeah, I like all the points you make, logic

Lucky for me, my handle is vanman, so know one criticizes me for being contradictory. Hell , I dont even know what i was thinking when I made it up, I am a man, but have never owned a van. Just rhymed and rolled off the tongue.

VERy good handle though.

I bet when u made yours up, it does mean sound logic, thus those who say your logic is not very sound are not as funny or clever as they think

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

Well, vanman, you are close. The logic part of the handle refers to just that—I believe I am a logical individual.

The sound part, however, refers to the fact that my undergrad work was Music Theory. (I can't wait for all the ribs I'm gonna get for that)

jonas (Anonymous) says…

Hey, I plugged this into babelfish with settings

“Posted by conservativeman (anonymous) on August 3, 2006 at 1:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Logsound04,

You're a clown, try to give your profile name a little credit. Infuse a little logic. Your emotional and hysterical responses continue to manifest deep seated issues you need to address. Namely, you're one angry dude!

HEE-HAW ya Jack-arss

I Love this place!!! rotflmao.”

Translation:

“I know you are, but what am I?
Neener neener neener.”

75x55 (Anonymous) says…

logic - I may have stepped on your toes (perhaps several times :) ) in the past, but I'm serious. It is a good question, and I did not miss your point.

There is a break-point with science and ID, and it is exactly this issue of philosophy vs. empiricism. Not trying to trap you or anything.

vanman (Anonymous) says…

Music Theory? What is that?

I have a theory on music, Everything that comes out nowadays is terrible, and sooner or later others will see this. Especially this crappy hip hop that all sounds like the same songs, yet they tell us its not. Heres a thought, rap with originality if your gonna do it at all. And learn to play instruments, don't wait until your second record deal and then learn the soundboards. Start with real instruments and then you might have REAL talent.

vanman (Anonymous) says…

Hahahaha

My point exactly Jonas

Kodiac (Anonymous) says…

Geez

Must be a slow day

Reduced to discussing the origins of our namesake now are we.

Come on hiLarryty and Devolved, come out and play please…we miss you guys…..

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

75x55-

Don't worry, I'm not offended or worried about a trap. I must have misunderstood your post. My bad

–––––––––––-

Vanman-

clever! I agree with your prognostication on today's music. And FYI, Music Theory is the study of the tonal organization and the structual/rhythmic forms of music. It tends to focus on “classical” or non-pop music, but I think you could, with a bit of creativity apply it to today's pop music (pop in the sense of non-classical, not Jessica Simpson)

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

HGA,

Have you ever used Digital Performer? It is what I learned to do recording and mixing on. I think it is pretty cool, but I've never used ProTools extensively…

vanman (Anonymous) says…

When I win the lottery, then I would buy one of those new MAC computers

xenophonschild (Anonymous) says…

“Do the math” is quickly becoming a tired cliche, but it fits in this instance, particularly the post by the idiot hobb2264.

Stephen Hawking and Roger Penrose laid out the the mathematical formulae that lead back to the Big Bang. Anyone who wants to contend that belief in the Big Bang is tantamount to belief in a religion, simply dispute or disprove the math.

Have a nice day.

GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…

Vanman,

I understood your point, but the crowd that supports the goofballs who have been running the KBOE believe the myths in Genesis really occurred.

In time, scientists may identify some kind of intelligence involved in evolution, but that intelligence is most likely a subconscious desire on the part of the species itself to better adapt to its environment.

Regardless, there is no debate about evolution. The species on this planet did in fact evolve slowly over billions of generations through billions of years. All evidence supports this.

But to the extent that some kind of intelligence may be involved in evolution, I agree with you that this is a possibility.

However, these ID whackos ultimately wanted to teach such crap as:

The earth was created in six days

The earth is only 10,000 years old.

God found water somewhere in the Universe and suddenly covered the earth so deep that even mountains were no longer exposed, and then, just as suddenly, God sucked it all back up.

Rainbows, which any high school physics student can tell you are universally created by the refraction of light through raindrops, did not occur until AFTER this mythological flood.

Of course, the ID proponents are careful not to actually mention these absurd beliefs, but nearly all those who attend their meetings do believe this crap.

These ignorant people are filled with fear. They have been manipulated through fear to believe such lies because they were told at an early age that to not belive in lies is an automatically sentence to hell.

Satan, if he exists, knows that fear is a very effective tool to make ignorant people believe in the ridiculous.

vanman (Anonymous) says…

right on gopcon

“god found water” ? I never heard some of this stuff.

It almost makes me laugh to think someone believes that. I mean, didn't 'god create' everything, according to that belief system. I KNOW! God made water a while back but then he forgot where he put it. Then he was walking around one day and tripped over something and was like “Oh, thats where I put my water, I was looking for that!”

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

…And so, my little vacation Bible school devotees, that is why we have droughts—to remind the world what God went through when he lost his water

BOE (Anonymous) says…

” The results of Kansas State Board of Education primary contests on Tuesday mean there will be at least a 6-4 majority of moderates in office in January. ”

—

People making plans, talking about reversals as though there wasn't a General Election yet to go.

A small sample of those motivated enough to vote in a Primary is by no means the “slam dunk”, of a more “heated” General Election.

Gotta say though, the voter apathy (esp. with Republicans picking a candidate to face a Dem incumbent), is breathtaking. :(

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

It is interesting that Kansans have vacillated on the issue of evolutionary science and the KBOE. I think what this means is that the more people know and the more they become informed, the more likely they are to dismiss ID creationism as having anything to do with science.

ID creationism thrives in the dark places of inattention, ignorance, and demagoguery. When the light switches are thrown and people become informed, people see ID creationism for what it is. ID creationism then reteats back into the shadows in wait, to find another dark, ignorant place where it can begin to grow again. Just like termites and roaches, ID creationism will be back.

vanman (Anonymous) says…

If god loses water, can he hold his liquor?

Kodiac (Anonymous) says…

“If god loses water, can he hold his liquor?”

Ah finally,

A question worth considering…..

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

“ID creationism thrives in the dark places of inattention, ignorance, and demagoguery. When the light switches are thrown and people become informed, people see ID creationism for what it is. ID creationism then reteats back into the shadows in wait, to find another dark, ignorant place where it can begin to grow again. Just like termites and roaches, ID creationism will be back.”

––––––––––––––––––––––-

Very eloquent, nightmare. Kudos.

ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

GOP COnservative very good post!

Worst nightmare…

awesome post. Thank you for those words!

BABBOY (Anonymous) says…

John Bacon just barely won his primary. Bacon is another one of those guys who desires to tell you what do, how to do it, and what to believe when you do it. His slim margin of victory in a strong republican county shows that people do not approve of him inserting his own personal religious beliefs into the school system.

Don Weiss is a democrat running against him.

Hopefully, moderate republicans will continue the trend throw Bacon out of office making the moderate majority 7-3.

ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

Both Bacon and Willard did not approach 1/2 of their primary total votes, I think Willard maybe got a little over 50%.

Moderate R's will NOT vote for the Whacko's, however, whaclo's will vote for a Moderate R before any D. D's in Kansas will vote for a Moderate R before a weaker D in that position of KDBOE in my opinion.

I do not think that they have a sure thing here, it will probably end up either 7-3 or 8-2 on the KSBOE, and maybe…maybe they will then KNOCK off this stupid stuff and get back to important issues.

WHat I absolutely love is the fact that the DI and ID Network have spent a lotta bucks and went backwards!! first Ohio, then Georgia, now Kansas.

Hopefully they will get the message that a Democracy is NO Place to set up a fundemental religious based cabal.

thetagger (Anonymous) says…

http://www.kevinsontag.com/blog/2006_08_…

He's a local guy. This one is pretty funny.

Shardwurm (Anonymous) says…

Victory for Evolution?

Cool. It can take all the victories it can get.

ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

ANd they said no miracles would come of this! LOL!

All movements like the ID and such nonsense are funded by wealthy benefactors, however benefactors need to see results. I cannot WAIT to see the fallout, when the Rich guys want to know why they paid so much money to these Creo/ID yahoos for a net zero result. (Acutally loosing ground!)

There is going to be a fundamentalist ole fashioned bloodletting that is LONG overdue. The purge and blame game hopefully will begin soon, and be ugly!

ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

“The Lord will provide.”

gr8dane (Anonymous) says…

I've been busy in the “Group promotes science standards” discussion, but just checked the other news here about evolution.

Congratulations to the people of Kansas for turfing out some of these creationist fascists on the school board and getting back to proper science standards in the schools.

And as vanman pointed out, this is NOT a war between science and religion (or any specific religion, including Christianity). Most mainstream denominations accept evolution just fine. Mainly it's the fundamentalists/literalists who reject it, and lots of other science, like physics and cosmology (including big bang), chemistry, geology, biology (abiogenesis as well as evolution), etc.

Creationism is based on many fallacies and misconceptions. One they use a lot is the “false dichotomy”. For example, they push the false dichotomy that you can believe in God OR accept evolution, but not both. The fact that most Christians accept evolution fine sorta refutes that. I know. I'm one of them. So are all the Christians I know around here. Including my elderly parents.

“The objective is to convince people that Darwinism is inherently atheistic, thus shifting the debate from creationism vs. evolution to the existence of God vs. the non-existence of God. From there people are introduced to 'the truth' of the Bible and then 'the question of sin' and finally 'introduced to Jesus'.” - Phillip Johnson

This is why they were so keen to get those flawed “science standards” in place. They redefine science to allow supernatural explanations as science. All part of the “Wedge Strategy” of the ID creationism movement.

They deny it, but it's ALL about proselytizing their fundamentalist faith. Even though their campaign of misinformation has been too successful and even non-fundamentalists (and even non-Christians) have swallowed the fallacies and misconceptions of science pushed in creationist propaganda.

Oh well. I hope this election helps Kansas get back on the right track. But as Bennyoates said, the creationists are “unusually persistent, well-organized, and well-funded”. And they don't let facts get in the way of their Mission.

GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…

Besides the absurdity of God finding enough water to cover the planet above the highest mountains and then sucking it back up, one has to question the morality of a God who would do such a thing.

According to the myth, only Noah and his family were saved. Can you imagine the suffering of all those millions of children, babies and fetuses that were purposely killed by God? What did those innocents do to deserve being murdered?

Although I have not yet read it, I recently saw an interview with Anne Provoost, author of “In the Shadow of the Ark.”

It is a story of the Great Flood from the perspective of a young girl who helped Noah build the Ark before finding out that she would not be allowed on it and that God was going to kill her.

“In the Shadow of the Ark” would probably be helpful to those who still live in fear of opening their minds to the truth about the Earth's history.

http://www.teenreads.com/reviews/0439442…

gan (Anonymous) says…

Christians and Jews have a creation story. So do other religions.

Materialists have a deep need for their own creation story. Darwin provided that story and materialists defend it because they must. Without it they lose to an alternative story. Darwin's story is full of holes but it's all they've got so it gets defended with all their might, and that defense includes banning any criticism.

How did the writer of Job, written almost 3000 years ago, know “the Earth hangs on nothing?” The science (science?) extant then said the earth rested on something: a turtle or a giant. Was religion less accurate?

gr8dane (Anonymous) says…

Ah yes, gan. The creationist mantra that science is “just another creation story”. Too bad it's nonsense. And so is your claim of it being “full of holes”. Are there gaps in our knowledge? Certainly. Do any of these gaps make evolution less of a factual, observed natural process than it is? No. Do they make the evidence we DO have any less overwhelmingly convincing that evolution happened in the past as we see it happening today? No.

Playing apologist with the bible, reinterpretting it to fit modern discoveries (by the materialistic science you hate so much), is just a sign of your fear. You don't want to let go of your own outdated and disproven creation myth because you've been fed a line that if you do,