Wichita ? Democrat Kathleen Sebelius and Republican Tim Shallenburger on Monday tangled over gun control, foster care and the state budget crisis in their second major gubernatorial debate.

The two candidates also engaged in a textbook campaign exercise of punch and counterpunch about who was tougher on criminals during a forum before about 400 people at the Wichita Rotary Club.

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In his opening statement, Shallenburger accused Sebelius of being soft on crime, citing several votes she made as a legislator opposing stronger penalties for criminals.

Sebelius said Shallenburger was taking her votes out of context.

“I hate to start down that path,” she said. “I’d like to spend the day talking about issues and a vision for the future.”

After the one-hour debate, Shallenburger’s campaign staff handed reporters a list of Sebelius votes under the heading “Sebelius Soft On Crime.”

Sebelius’ campaign had a rapid response, handing out a three-page record of Shallenburger’s votes as a House member under the heading “Shallenburger Voted 21 Times To Go Easy On Kansas’ Criminals.”

Asked how she was prepared to answer Shallenburger’s charge so quickly, Sebelius said, “Unfortunately, this (Shallenburger’s list of her votes) has been floating out there for a while.”

None of the questions from Rotary Club members dealt with crime. Most asked how the candidates would handle the state’s fiscal problems.

Neither candidate provided many specifics.

Shallenburger repeated his pledge not to raise taxes and to cut the governor’s office budget by 10 percent.

“You’ve got to make the pledge,” he challenged Sebelius. “We’re not going to raise taxes. We’re going to find ways to cut spending.”

Sebelius continued to refuse to make the pledge, but added, “New taxes are not an option I’m looking at.”

She said she would initiate a performance audit of state government to make services and agencies more streamlined and efficient.

State budget experts have said Kansas faces a revenue gap of as much as $600 million in a $4.4 billion budget.

On public school funding, which makes up more than half of the state budget, Shallenburger promised to hold schools “harmless.” But, he added, “I don’t believe we can dump hundreds of millions of dollars into it right now,” implying an increase in funding would require a tax increase. Sebelius’ campaign has said she wants to increase public school funding by $400 million over several years, but that she can do it without a tax increase.

Responding to questions from Rotarians, Shallenburger said he supported legislation to allow Kansans to carry concealed handguns, saying that would help people feel safer.

“If you’re a bank teller going home late at night, you may want to defend yourself,” he said.

But Sebelius said she would oppose such proposals, saying it would put law enforcement officers at risk and increase violence in the workplace.

On foster care, Shallenburger said the state’s recently privatized system is better for children, but that some children were being removed from homes when they shouldn’t be.

But Sebelius said a review of the system was needed because some foster care contractors have been driven to bankruptcy while many children in the foster care system continue to get shuffled around.

In response to another question, both candidates said they welcomed immigrants and more should be done to make them legal residents.

Questions on their stances on immigration arose after a Republican state school board candidate came out in opposition to educating the children of illegal immigrants.

The debate was moderated by Dale Goter, the public affairs editor of KPTS, the public television station in Wichita. The first debate took place Sept. 7 at the Kansas State Fair in Hutchinson. The election is Nov. 5.