Mexico's Obama Rifles

LJWorld.com weblogs Science Becoming Religion

Posted by Reasonmclucus June 26, 2012 at 4:28 p.m.

Historian Tim Stanley in the "London Telegraph" suggests "The Fast and Furious scandal is turning into President Obama's Watergate". Stanley reminds everybody that President Richard Nixon was hurt by the ill advised cover up of the operation rather than by the second rate burglary itself. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100166854/the-fast-and-furious-scandal-is-turning-into-president-obamas-watergate/

A better comparison to a past scandal might be what is called the "Iran Contra" scandal. Both Iran Contra and Fast and Furious involved the United States helping groups in Latin American countries obtain weapons without the approval of the government of that country. In both cases drug money was used to purchase the weapons. The United States helped the Nicaraguan Contras obtain weapons to help the group overthrow what the Reagan Administration considered to be a communist government. http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm

So far there is no evidence the United States wants the Mexican drug cartels it helped obtain weapons to overthrow the Mexican government. However, in the past U.S. policy was to restrict the ability of rebel groups from obtaining assistance if the U.S. supported a Latin America government and to allow or even encourage rebel groups to obtain assistance if the U.S. opposed that government. The 2,020 weapons purchased during Fast and Furious would have been enough to equip four battalions of troops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunw...

The drug cartels continue to pose a major threat to the Mexican government. Obama's rifles continue to kill people.

Fast and Furious was conducted more like an operation to provide weapons to insurgents in another country than an operation to catch criminals. If the Obama administration had wanted to catch criminals it would have tried to keep the weapons under surveillance such as by implanting tracking devices and would have coordinated the operation with the Mexican government like the Bush administration had done in Operation Wide Receiver.

The U.S. Congress is currently investigating Fast and Furious. An international investigation by the Organization of American States or United Nations is needed because the operation involved the U.S. illegally aiding a criminal element in another country. Did the U.S. have an ulterior motive in helping the group? Were any of the U.S. officials involved taking money from the drug cartels obtaining the weapons? Did any U.S. official take an action that should be prosecuted before the World Court?

Watergate happened as I was beginning graduate school. I thought about doing a Master's Thesis on the subject until my adviser convinced me it wasn't practical to do a history thesis about an event that was still happening. One thing I remember from my research was that there was virtually no change in public opinion polls regarding how deeply people thought Nixon was involved in Watergate from early 1973 to early 1974 with most believing he was involved in some way. However, there was a change in how serious people thought Nixon's actions were.

Nixon's decision to invoke executive privilege to keep his White House tapes secret insured that some conversations would be interpreted as indicating involvement in Watergate. For example, a conversation with John Dean was interpreted as indicating Nixon's approval of Watergate even though the conversation didn't specifically refer to any such operation.

President Barack Obama's claim of executive privilege in the Fast and Furious operation strongly implies that he was directly involved in it. Obama is committing a major blunder if he is trying to protect Attorney General Eric Holder. If Holder has any loyalty to Obama, he should be willing to figuratively "fall on his sword" for his boss. Holder should have already taken personal responsibility for the misguided operation and resigned because as Attorney General he is responsible for what happens in his department. At the very least Fast and Furious indicates Holder failed to adequately supervise the department.

The timing of Obama's announcement of amnesty for children who grew up in the United States after being brought here illegally is suspicious. Obama's amnesty could be an attempt to distract people from the fact Obama's rifles continue to kill Mexican citizens. The decision could be an admission of guilt by Obama who wants to prevent children raised in the United States from being killed by Obama's rifles.

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tange 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Fast & Furious - Vin Diesel by Agribex

Crazy_Larry 11 months, 3 weeks ago

I'm having trouble with my youtube links....I want them to show up like yours do. What's your secret?

Crazy_Larry 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Cool, thanks.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Horrible thing this selling guns without making sure the seller is qualified, without registering the guns and without then tracing the guns after they are sold. Horrible thing. Thanks for pointing out that the only rational thing to do when selling guns is to track the buyers and the guns themselves. About time conservatives came around to this point of view.

Did_I_say_that 11 months, 3 weeks ago

^^ This ^^ is the result that was expected. After providing the pathway for illegal gun transfers, a call to tighten gun laws. Unfortunately for several hundred citizens of Mexico, and border agent Brian Terry - killed by one of the illegal guns, the unintended consequences took control of the ill-fated plan.

Moonbat 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Unfortunately, due to toothless Arizona gun laws, the guns were not illegal according to prosecuters. Here's a great quote from a Fortune investigation:

"Republicans who support the National Rifle Association and its attempts to weaken gun laws are lambasting ATF agents for not seizing enough weapons—ones that, in this case, prosecutors deemed to be legal."

Here's a link to the full article. It's a long one, but very interesting!

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?hpt=hp_t2

Moonbat 11 months, 3 weeks ago

You really should read more than just the summary at the beginning of the article.

Also from the article: "Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn."

Moonbat 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Not sure why you keep calling this a trash article...it seems pretty informative to me. Here's some good info on this Dodson character:

"...Dodson then proceeded to walk guns intentionally, with Casa and Alt's help. On April 13, 2010, one month after Voth wrote his schism e-mail, Dodson opened a case into a suspected gun trafficker named Isaiah Fernandez. He had gotten Casa to approve the case when Voth was on leave. Dodson had directed a cooperating straw purchaser to give three guns to Fernandez and had taped their conversations without a prosecutor's approval.

Voth first learned these details a month into the case. He demanded that Dodson meet with him and get approval from prosecutors to tape conversations. Five days later, Dodson sent an uncharacteristically diplomatic response. (He and Alt had revised repeated drafts in that time, with Alt pushing to make the reply "less abrasive." Dodson e-mailed back: "Less abrasive? I felt sick from kissing all that ass as it was.") Dodson wrote that he succeeded in posing undercover as a straw purchaser and claimed that prosecutor Hurley—who he had just belatedly contacted—had raised "new concerns." The prosecutor had told Dodson that an assistant U.S. Attorney "won't be able to approve of letting firearms 'walk' in furtherance of your investigation without first briefing the U.S. Attorney and Criminal Chief."

It was the first time Voth learned that Dodson intended to walk guns. Voth says he refused to approve the plan and instead consulted his supervisor, who asked for a proposal from Dodson in writing. Dodson then drafted one, which Voth forwarded to his supervisor, who approved it on May 28.

On June 1, Dodson used $2,500 in ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers, and gave these to Fernandez, who reimbursed him and gave him $700 for his efforts. Two days later, according to case records, Dodson—who would later testify that in his previous experience, "if even one [gun] got away from us, nobody went home until we found it"—left on a scheduled vacation without interdicting the guns. That day, Voth wrote to remind him that money collected as evidence needed to be vouchered within five days. Dodson e-mailed back, his sarcasm fully restored: "Do the orders define a 'day'? Is it; a calendar day? A business day or work day….? An Earth day (because a day on Venus takes 243 Earth days which would mean that I have plenty of time)?"

The guns were never recovered, the case was later closed, and Fernandez was never charged. By any definition, it was gun walking of the most egregious sort: a government agent using taxpayer money to deliver guns to bad guys and then failing to intercept them."

Moonbat 11 months, 3 weeks ago

(continuted)

"On Feb. 4, 2011, the Justice Department sent a letter to Sen. Grassley saying that the allegations of gun walking in Fast and Furious were false and that ATF always tried to interdict weapons. A month later, Grassley countered with what appeared to be slam-dunk proof that ATF had indeed walked guns. "[P]lease explain how the denials in the Justice Department's Feb. 4, 2011 letter to me can be squared with the evidence," Grassley wrote, attaching damning case reports that he contended "proved that ATF allowed guns to 'walk.'" The case and agent names were redacted, but the reports were not from Fast and Furious. They came entirely from Dodson's Fernandez case."

Guardian 11 months, 3 weeks ago

The only problem with your line of thought is that the gun dealers were told by the BATFE to let the guns walk. All gun sales conducted by an FFL holding gun dealer are required to have a NICS background check BEFORE the sale can be completed. The gun dealers knew these sales were straw purchases, punishable by a mandatory and non-parole eligible 10 years in federal prison and a very substantial monetary fine, and yet were under orders by government officials to complete the sales. It was all a ruse to lend "proof" to the claim that the drug cartels were buying US automatic weapons from gun stores in the border states. The fly in the ointment here is that most US gun dealers are not licensed to sell fully automatic weapons.

It has also been documented that some of the US made automatic weapons that the cartels were in possession of were stolen (missing) from Mexican military units, to whom they were legally sold by one government to another. Other weapons were purchased on the Black Market and other illegal sources.

If it was not a full-fledged scam to set up a future gun control campaign, Obama and Holder would have turned over the information faster than a Liberal can blame Bush. This is another Obama misfire.

optimist 11 months, 3 weeks ago

You equate law abiding Americans, purchasing lawful firearms, to known criminals buying weapons illegally to be used in the furtherance of violent criminal activity? This is why silly liberals aren't taken seriously.

jjinks 11 months, 3 weeks ago

No it's a horrible thing and it shows what is wrong with their beliefs. But where are all those anti-gun enthusiasts on this matter? No where to be found, isn't that surprising? Obama got hundreds of people killed that they claim to care so much about and not a single one has anything to say on the matter. Typical Liberal bullcrap and all you will hear is how the Conservatives are picking on him, oh and don't forget the racisim it will sure be there, he don't like Rev. Jackson but I bet he won't shut him up on this one.

Alyosha 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Try to define "liberal." I bet you can't. Yet they're apparently the grand monster under your bed. You use "liberal" the same way the Communists used to use "bourgeois" or "capitalist" and like Nazis used "Juden" -- the single group wholly responsible for the evils in society. Grow up.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Once again, a conservative making a claim of being accussed of racism -- when the conservative is the first and only person to mention race. Nice.

snap_pop_no_crackle 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Criminals prefer unarmed, defenseless victims. So do progressives.

Alyosha 11 months, 3 weeks ago

This comment is ridiculous. Try to let facts influence your beliefs, and then you'll avoid making such ridiculous, easily-disprovable statements as this one. All the progressives I know believe they should be armed so as to protect themselves, for example, from insane extremists.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Isn't this case, in part, about not registering guns? Isn't that what conservatives want? Make up your mind.

Crazy_Larry 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Oh come on now...I'm a "progressive" and I think there should be a law mandating everyone own a gun. Kind of like the Swiss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ufkwT...

tuschkahouma 11 months, 3 weeks ago

the gop doesn't need to remember that dubya initiated this program in 2005 and 2006....when does the gop need facts? never.....just stir the pot with code language and hope the usual gop tactics stick.....

RoeDapple 11 months, 3 weeks ago

You say "dubya" initiated it. Okay, I'll give you that. Would that mean it is (still) the top guy's responsibility and knowledge of it that has kept it going? How about the present admin being responsible for what happens under their watch? No, that'd be too easy.

dr_salt 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Then why is Obama invoking executive privilege? To save Bush?

Guardian 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Just remember, when Obama is booted out of the White House in January, it will be Bush's fault.

Guardian 11 months, 3 weeks ago

The words I will be waiting to hear from you when Obama is evicted from 1600 Pennsylvania in a few months is, "It's Bush's fault!"

Ronald Reagan did not spend the first four years of his Presidency blaming Carter.

DeckDoctors 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Tusch and the Libs have it all wrong once again. The operation under the Bush administration was called 'Wide Receiver' and the fact is it used tracking devices on each weapon and actually knew who bought the gun and where it went leading them to the criminals. Obumble and Holder just gave the guns to the criminals under the guise of caring who got them. So under Bush it was a law enforcement operation, under Obumble it is a way to arm insurgents to the U.S. Government.

vertigo 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Some of the guns in Wide Receiver had RFID chips. Not all.

vertigo 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Also note that Holder testified that during Wide Receiver 300 guns were allowed to walk in that operation - just like the guns in Fast in Furious.

So if you're gonna call someone out on being wrong... you might want to make sure you're right as well.

DeckDoctors 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Let's see your proof. I don't believe your correct, but will withhold judgement while you dig up the proof.

vertigo 11 months, 3 weeks ago

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=86e_1340745454&comments=1

"Some of the guns from Wide Receiver were implanted with RFID chips and were actively tracked electronically. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in Phoenix also implemented aerial surveillance tactics in an attempt to follow the weapons.

However, problems reportedly arose due to poorly implanted RFID chips which were forced into the guns, bending the antennas and decreasing their effectiveness. Cartels and straw purchasers also eventually came up with creative ways to shake tracking maneuvers and overhead surveillance, such as driving in loops for hours until surveillance planes had to refuel."

and...

"Some firearms in Wide Receiver were equipped with RFID tracking devices. In Wide Receiver, the illegal purchasers were familiar with ATF’s procedures and methods and how to evade their aerial and electronic tracking procedures.

For example, they knew how long government surveillance planes would be aloft. The buyers had a simple method of getting their purchases across the border undetected. They simply drove four-hour loops around the area. And when the surveillance planes had to return to base for re-fueling, the smugglers simply turned and sprinted their cargo across the border.

What’s more, the RFID tags also turned out to be problematic. Rather than making large enough holes for the tags to be laid out inside weapons, agents force-fit them into the rifles. That cramming caused the antennae to be folded, reducing the effective range of the tags. And an already short battery life (36-48 hours maximum) meant that should purchasers allow the firearms to sit, the tracking devices eliminated themselves.

So it was an operation that proved impossible to implement, and Wide Receiver was discontinued well more than a year before Bush left office." http://thehayride.com/2012/06/eric-holders-contradictory-fast-and-furious-statements/

snap_pop_no_crackle 11 months, 3 weeks ago

The minions of the current regime are brandishing their talking points this morning. Will they ever get weary of the Kool-Aid?

vertigo 11 months, 3 weeks ago

How many Watergate labels are the conservatives going to throw on Obama?

First it was the Gulf spill that Fox News labeled as his Watergate. Then it was Solyndria that Fox News labeled as his Watergate. Then it was the national security leaks Fox News labeled as his Watergate. Now it's Fast and Furious...

Fox News loves labeling things as Watergate.

DeckDoctors 11 months, 3 weeks ago

You're right vertigo, let's just go with Obamagate period, the most scurrilous administration in US history.

Alyosha 11 months, 3 weeks ago

This is an inane comment that demonstrates zero historical understanding. You need to learn to separate your fantasy from reality. Your negative emotional reaction to Obama is derailing your ability to think.

DeckDoctors 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Oh, sorry, perhaps your vote would be the Clinton administration. Can't say you don't have a point.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Hyperbole is the greatest thing ever!

yanman 11 months, 3 weeks ago

If this President was Republican, the Lame Stream Media would be calling all of these controversies Watergate. However, since the President is liberal it's "see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil". The hypocrisy of the LMS is sickening. Thank God for Fox news as all we would ever get is liberal propaganda. First it was the Gulf spill that Fox News labeled as his Watergate. Then it was Solyndria that Fox News labeled as his Watergate. Then it was the national security leaks Fox News labeled as his Watergate. Now it's Fast and Furious...

Fox News loves labeling things as Watergate.

jd 11 months, 3 weeks ago

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-26-2012/the-wrath-of-cons

RoeDapple 11 months, 3 weeks ago

yep

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Autie -- very good observation.

Don't forget, many conservatives defend the war in Iraq as useful and needed. I don't see many (any?) liberals defending the ridiculously asinine Fast and Furious operation. I just enjoy pointing out the call for tracking the sale of guns coming from so many conservatives over this.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Um ... obviously they didn't track them. Conservatives calling for the tracking and registration of guns -- do you not see the irony?

jafs 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Except that the reason AZ became a hub for weapons trafficking is because AZ laws about that are notoriously loose and hard to use.

Conservatives are generally opposed to restrictions on gun buying, and AZ is a conservative state.

So, their own policies led to the situation these programs were trying to deal with.

You can't really complain about guns getting into the "wrong hands" if your own laws make that easy - it lacks consistency.

I agree that these programs, both under Bush and Obama, were ill conceived and spectacularly ineffective.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

I agree. They need to come clean.

Alyosha 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Try reading all the way through: http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

It's long, and requires you to think and consider — not just emote and vent childish outrage upon topics you know nothing about.

I bet that's too much to ask of commenters, though: to actually read a piece and evaluate it, instead of blowing it off because it doesn't meet your preconceived ideas.

markoo 11 months, 3 weeks ago

"I'll take the agent's word in front of a congressional panel over the trash you linked. "

If you actually read the article you'd see that the agent who testified in front of the congressional panel, John Dodson, was at a serious clash with Voth, the lead supervisor of the ATF group in charge:

"Dodson's faction grew antagonistic to Voth. They regularly fired off snide e-mails and seemed to delight in mocking Voth and his methodical nature. They were scornful of protocol, according to ATF agents. Dodson would show up to work in flip-flops. He came unprepared for operations—without safety equipment or back-up plans—and was pulled off at least one surveillance for his own safety, say two colleagues. He earned the nickname "Renegade," and soon Voth's group effectively divided into two clashing factions: the Sunshine Bears and the Renegades."

Further down:

"Voth returned to Phoenix fully expecting his team to unite for the work that lay ahead. But instead he found a minor mutiny—over the schedule for the wire, which needed to be monitored around the clock. Dodson didn't want to work weekends. Casa felt his seniority should exclude him from the effort."

Wow, that dweeb didn't want to work weekends? Oh the humanity!!!

And:

"But Voth's so-called "schism e-mail" would live in infamy. Today it is held up as proof that the group was desperately divided over the tactic of gun walking and that Voth belittled those who opposed it. But there is no documentary evidence that agents Dodson, Casa, or Alt complained to their supervisors about the alleged gun walking, had confrontations about it, or were retaliated against because of their complaints, as they all later claimed."

You really need to read the article. The guy who testified was a turd and his actions easily discredit him. You should also read how the State Laws in Arizona essentially stifled the ATF's abilities to effectively track the guns.

But then again, it seems you want to read and believe that which you only want to agree with, so I doubt you'll actually read it, much less agree with what Fortune magazine's author demonstrates what actually came from the 2000 documents released.

snap_pop_no_crackle 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Somebody should tell Alexrod that his comb-over really isn't working at all.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Perhaps John McCain can tell him.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Yes, this is a big story that hasn't received proper coverage (in my opinion) in this paper lately. Obama using executive privileges instead of being transparent as promised is worth coverage. This is why a self-proclaimed "birther" writes a blog and people come here to discuss (or throw verbal assaults). If it had been in the paper, we would have been there to discuss and left this birther's blog alone.

(By the way, RM still hasn't shown us a copy of his birth certificate. I think he was born in Yugoslavia.)

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Not cool. Disagree, but lowering yourself to name-calling only reflects back on you. Rise above it, dpl, rise above it.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

It appears that when a comment is removed, it no longer recognizes that a comment was ever there. This makes my "Not cool" comment and your response to appear to be completely out of left field. That is not cool.

JackMcKee 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Go stick a cork in it.

RoeDapple 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Looks like someone wants banninatededed . . .

Mr. Parker?

Crazy_Larry 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Fast and Furious was meant to supply weapons to Mexican drug lords so that Hillary Clinton, et al., would have evidence and an excuse to introduce more restrictive gun legislation in America. Remember back in 2009? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/20/obamas-gun-lies/

Most all of our political elites (Dems and Repubs) are corrupted...They do not care about We The People, but only themselves and their cronies. We must take the power back and put them back in their place. "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

What a crock. This administration and Hillary Clinton has done nothing to restrict access to guns. In fact, they have loosened gun laws (see carrying in national parks, for instance). Just because someone writes a brief editorial in the Washington Times doesn't mean it is true.

Crazy_Larry 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Their evil plan was foiled by whistle blowers. What is the point of letting guns walk across the boarder and not tracking them if not to say "see! we need to more gun control in the USA"? Back in 2009, Hillary Clinton called for greater gun restrictions on Americans in order to help our neighbors to the south. "Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said recently that she would like to see the U.S. reinstate the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, which expired in 2004." http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-31-mexicoguns_N.htm

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

You go from Senator Clinton wanting to reinstate assault weapons ban -- something many Americans (possibly a majority) agree with -- to her arming Mexicans as a backward way of getting the ban on assault weapons reinstated???? Wow.

The one does not lead to the next -- unless you also believe that man didn't walk on the moon, or there was a second shooter ... With stretching capabilities like that, you should be one of the Fantastic Four.

Crazy_Larry 11 months, 3 weeks ago

You speak gibberish very well. Is that newspeak?

markoo 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Your conclusions do not follow your premise. As beatrice easily pointed out, you jump from Hillary Clinton wanting to reinstate the assault weapons ban to arming Mexicans as a means of attaining the assault weapons ban here in the states.

Please demonstrate how your first contention regarding Hillary Clintons desires to reinstate the ban somehow leads to arming Mexicans in hopes of attaining that ban. Some evidence for this leap of logic for you is desperately needed.

Crazy_Larry 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Some politicians want stricter gun laws in the USA. Crime rates are going down....there's no 'good' reason to reinstate the weapons ban that expired in 2006. And so, Fast and Furious was born. Allowing 'assault weapons' into Mexico facilitating an increase in death and violence down there. Hillary then points at the dead bodies, killed by guns from the USA, and can justify stricter laws in the USA in order to "help Mexico fight the drug lords". Take rights from US citizens will help the Mexicans defeat the drug lords by stemming the flow of guns from the USA to the south. We do the drugs and supply the guns. We can't stop the drug use, but we can make guns harder to obtain (in theory). Her modus operandi is to depict the U.S. as the cause of gun violence in Mexico, and to characterize her mission as a pure-hearted quest to save innocent lives. I hope this helps.

snap_pop_no_crackle 11 months, 3 weeks ago

For somebody who got a Nobel Peace Prize because he might do something good, the Mope sure has managed to kill a lot of people.

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Not sure who "the Mope" is, but I know President Obama gave the okay to killing Osama bin Laden.

If only they had given the Peace Prize to Bush, Osama might have been killed earlier.

We should give every president that prize.

Crysalis 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Please show the link/evidence where it states the gun walked over in 2009.

tuschkahouma 11 months, 3 weeks ago

As a Choctaw person who observes code language on here consistently I'm wondering why "Blame it on the Black Guys" hasn't been stated. A Black co worker of mine says this constantly. There is actually a shirt sold online to this effect. This should not be considered offensive unless those who don't have the courage to own the undertone of their own words and really think like this find it offensive. I've heard John Dean speak in the 1980's at KSU about his Nixon Watergate experiences and how big of a crooks Mr. Liddy and Mr. Halderman were. I watched as Ollie North was "cleansed" after Iran Contra and was allowed on Faux network as a true patriot? This dog is not hunting.....weak grabbing at straws partisanship is..... fishing like a law enforcement officer ignoring the fourth amendment rights while pulling over a minority driver. Three times in Doniphan, Jackson, and Osage County, KS, thar driver was me. Hey GOP.....keep fanning the flames of that little fire......it will give out soon....

vertigo 11 months, 3 weeks ago

"his signature health care plan that SCOTUS will find unconstitutional tomorrow"

Bzzzt! Wrong. SCOTUS upheld Obamacare in its entirety with a minor change to the Medicaid provision.

jafs 11 months, 3 weeks ago

It will be interesting to see how those that were so certain the SC would strike the law down entirely react to this - will they be able to see that their certainty and predictions were simply wrong?

pizzapete 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Iran Contra was much worse and they built that guy an airport.

JackMcKee 11 months, 3 weeks ago

This is only a big story with wacko conspiracy nuts and/or whacked out far right wingers. Basically when this group has some extra time off from searching for the Kenyan birthplace of Obama they switch gears and strain their few brain cells to try to figure out how this is going to cause them to end up in a FEMA camp with a Predator drone circling overhead.

Here's the facts. These gangs would have bought these guns somewhere else, they aren't having any trouble buying guns. This program was obviously not effective but it also didn't cause one single American life to be lost.

Give it a rest.

snap_pop_no_crackle 11 months, 3 weeks ago

I'm expect the families of Brian Terry and Jaime Zapata would not agree with your dismissive attitude. Of course, the hundreds of Mexican citizens who were killed by F&F guns don't count for much in your mind, do they?

JackMcKee 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Whatever happened to the right wing mantra "guns don't kill people, people kill people". If I adopt the NRAs propaganda, if these criminals couldn't buy guns, they'd have used sharp sticks. You're also ignoring the fact that the gangs are, right now, buying guns in America and shipping them to Mexico.

vertigo 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Doesn't mean we, as in our government, have to speed that process up by giving them the weapons.

snap_pop_no_crackle 11 months, 3 weeks ago

I hope the inflamed dude got a popsicle and calmed down before he burst something.

tuschkahouma 11 months, 3 weeks ago

born again regurgator of nonsense......like the anti Indian scotus judge Scalia you make the uninformed comment about kickbacks that didn't make it into the final bill.....you don't read much do you??? fyi on another bit of issa nonsense fed to the believe any nonsense I hear from am radio airbags....solyndra got a half billion promise.....so did the Tesla Motor Company which I read about as a success in USA Today and ironically a risk taker working with help from the Obama administration. This isn't possible according to the world is square right is it? uh oh there is actually gravity..... uh oh men didn't ride dinosaurs 6000 years ago....When the Chinese Government heard about the help Solyndra got from the Obama Administration they decided to put something like five or ten times that amount into their companies that made similar solar products as Solyndra and doing as the Chinese and other ascending Asian countries have done they flooded the market with cheaper product thus undercutting the profitability of Solyndra whose product wasn't as highly subsidized as the Chinese solar panels and Solyndra bled out financially. You know economics right regurgatator? what happens when wal mart clobbers the local five and dime genius with lower prices genius???? no conspiracy at all except the one created by the people with no research ability who are attracted to am radio nonsense like bugs to a bug zapper. You're as smart as Charles Grassley from Iowa.....right????

JackMcKee 11 months, 3 weeks ago

I think it's really sad that this country has turned into a red team vs blue team race to the bottom.

jafs 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Amen.

markoo 11 months, 3 weeks ago

They're voting with the idiot GOP because they are bought and paid for by the NRA and it's ridiculous conspiracy theory, a theory no one can substantiate and the National Review is saying Issa should be ashamed of himself pushing it:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/304094/too-fast-too-furious-robert-verbruggen

JackMcKee 11 months, 3 weeks ago

W had both houses of Congress at his disposal and all he managed to do was create the financial/debt disaster that Obama inherited. The red team has a serious disconnect from reality.

Crazy_Larry 11 months, 3 weeks ago

Please, we must stop bickering amongst ourselves (red team/blue team) and recognize the evil that is being perpetrated upon us all. "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken." Watch, learn, and wake up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njSV5L...

beatrice 11 months, 3 weeks ago

BAA: "However, the hate comes through loud and clear."

Um ... yes, it does.

tuschkahouma 11 months, 3 weeks ago

when you have your own set of facts regurgatator reality doesn't matter does it??? denial is the rule of the day to the right of the radio dial.....bush shouldn't of won the first term....barely won his second term....took a surplus from the Clinton administration and ran it into two wars financed by China because no reality detached national guardsman ducking service in alabama would ever want to ask american people to support an unjust war by a party that does a reagan shell game with taxes.You remind me of the southerners I grew up around who were in as much historical denial then as you all are about mr. bush's disasters. those people wrapped themselves in religion just as you all do. they justifed their prejudiced beliefs with biblical quotes just like you do. you need to read baptized in blood....a book that spells you all out just like the wrecking crew does with the destroy the federal government from the inside gop people in the bush administration that now try to do the same thing at the state level. I guess that when one has been flanked in the intellectual area they call what calls them out hateful. thanks for admitting I'm right.

tuschkahouma 11 months, 3 weeks ago

actually those democrats live in dumb dumb land where am radio is worshipped and believed by the devoted brainwashed.....none of them are on here......the Democrats will let these politicians do this to outwit you all because all you eat and think about is the red meat of politics. nothing the gop is doing will amount to squat. just nice theatre to their base.....

In other F&F news: "...The 255-67 vote marked the first time in American history that the head of the Justice Department has been held in contempt by Congress. Almost every House Republican backed the measure, along with 17 Democrats...." http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/politics/holder-contempt/index.html

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