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What is the Matter with Liberal Kansans?

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The book “What is the Matter with Kansas” can be summarized as noting that Kansans overlook their economic interests in pursuing “false” social issues. Well I play that right back to the Lawrence liberal scene. Is it in your economic interest to vote for people who keep finding ways to restrain your efforts to improve your standard of living over your family’s lifetime of work?

This is the last installment in this lengthy discussion about who is getting what and who is paying for what. If you will recall this started when Bea challenged my opinion that Mr. Obama is not focused on the middle class but on the lower half of it. If you will also recall I posted a discussion about what we mean by the middle class and established that the range is from about $25K to about $100K

An unbiased reading of the last four blogs suggests that while we are making significant effort to help the people considered poor, we are conversely asking those in the upper half of the middle class to provide a disproportionate and ever growing contribution to that effort.

I specifically posted data to show that a family starting their careers with an income of about $50K will see the government take between 40% and 60% of their life time gain. I repeat, how can you vote for people who through financial policy, tax policy, regulatory policy, health policy and all sorts of other means take more and more of your standard of living so that your ability to improve your financial circumstances is increasingly stymied.

Maybe your fellow Kansans see what is happening more clearly and reject it. Maybe they are just smarter than their liberal brethren and really do vote their economic interests!

Comments

ShePrecedes 2 years, 11 months ago

Again I say, Tom based his entire book on the idea that most farm workers are not land owners. This is a HUGE (!) misconception. Where I come from in W. Kansas, almost farm workers were land owners.

On our larger-than-norm farm, we had family friends's sons come for the summer for a summer job, to farm with us. They were paid well because we knew the families they came from. Frequently a nephew of the family came to live with us in the summer to do farm work, and paid well because they were family.

It was the extreme rare ranch and farm that had a farm worker that was not originally from the area or from friends and family.

Now you can take this book as truth. But I hail from the very places Tom wrote about, while Tom was not. Tom approached this from an agenda-laden outlook and reflected something that was not the reality from our rural county, that was not reflective of the counties around us.

So you choose what to believe. This is within your rights.

I contend that Tom created his book from a total and absolutely false conception of the conditions on a Kansas Farm. At least, that of W. Kansas farms.

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

Not really. Quite a lot of his book focused on or around Johnson County, where he grew up, and it compared and contrasted historical Kansas views with what he termed "backlash conservatism" where people voted against their own best economic interests in order to further social agendas.

That said, he does address farm concentration and loss of the profitable small farm, which is something that can be better backed up with data. I'm glad he left plenty of footnotes along the way.

-Signed, actually read the book.

Mike Ford 2 years, 11 months ago

Nothing is wrong with liberal kansans. We don't let religion cloud our thought process. we don't let bigotry cloud our thought process. We analyze different points of view because we actually think instead of listening to George Will, Neil Cavuto, Sean Hannity, Glenn (Where did he go?) Beck, and the rest of the inciters. Heck, before anyone mentioned anything Saul Allinsky, I knew nothing of the man. I simply knew from having thoughtful considerate educated parents that I should treat all races with decency even when I lived amongst racist southerners in the 1970's in Louisiana and Mississippi. I was surrounded by white southerners who constantly used the n word. I saw the Klan in person in Ocean Springs, Mississippi as a child. Liberals don't have to invent bogeymen or women. Republicans and Tea partiers do a good job of being real bogeymen instead of the made up ones that the republicans and tea partiers used to assail Democrats. I've never made over $20K in my life and yet I live within a budget and will be attending an NBA game in OKC next week. I have no class envy for money. I've realized since my teens what the GOP was about. I would've voted against Reagan as a 14 year old if I could of. It's funny Mr. Lippencott....you bait people with irrelevent titles for your blogs. But then show me a GOP person who actually has a real message and not one of contrived repeated attacks that will cost them the election in November. You can attack all you want but when you attack with words only people in rural areas are attuned to who are you really speaking to and what are you really saying???? not much...

rtwngr 2 years, 11 months ago

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mom_of_three 2 years, 11 months ago

While the Democratic party tried to stop the civil rights acts in the 1960's as you say, you forget it was democratic presidents that supported it. Lyndon Johnson signed them.

Liberty275 2 years, 11 months ago

"We don't let religion cloud our thought process"

We'll keep that in mind next time someone mentions that "sacred" mudhole behind Haskell.

booyalab 2 years, 11 months ago

No kidding. To hear them tell it, they have some preternatural ability to be both sympathetic and moral champions and intellectual powerhouses. Even though human beings only tend towards using their heart or head with decisions, not both simultaneously...much less awesomely. But maybe liberals are gods and, as a lowly human who has strengths and weaknesses, maybe I can't be expected to understand being awesome at everything.

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

I'm planning on voting for "bad." The rest of Kansas most likely plans on voting for "worse." That doesn't mean they're not still voting against their own self interests.

Alceste 2 years, 11 months ago

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George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Wrong again. Sounds like a Saul Slinky play. If you actually read my posts as opposed to continuing your incessant personal attacks you will note that I advocate for far more "blood" from the rich.

It is the upper half of the middle class that I am attempting to defend and yes, that includes us ($50K to $100K). We are retired so how do you presume we are rich because we have a big house?? You seem to be completely oblivious to people accumulating savings over a lifetime. You can spend it on fast cars, bars, vacations, clothes or, as we do, on our house. Could be that all our savings our in our home and not in the market???

Time to tax wealth as well as income. Time to tax income made from capital the same as we tax income made from labor.

Alceste 2 years, 11 months ago

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Alceste 2 years, 11 months ago

thank you, its_just_math, for not placing the "liberal" moniker on me. Liberals, moreso than Right Wing Red Neck Conservatives (some wear button down shirts to hide that red neck) are just as dangerous, if not moreso, than Conservatives: At least Alceste understands and knows the Conservative's agenda; whereas Liberals can't agree on diddly, foist crud like politcal correctness on us; move from one issue to the next, resolving nothing and diluting the thrust of change.

You're right: It IS just math.....and there are more of us in the "disenfranchised" arena there there are in the 1% or the 5% or the 10%: Them people been greedy long enough and we're coming to get what's ours. Just as Wolverine noted (yeah, yeah...hoaky reference.....Franz Fannon won't do for this low brow crowd): http://www.hark.com/clips/zqhsgswrsc-you-sure-youre-on-the-right-side

Mike Ford 2 years, 11 months ago

hey rightwngr, why do you omit the part where southern white male democrats fled the Democratic party after Truman and Kennedy and LBJ signed civil rights legislation into law in the late 1940's and 1960's? because it was then that the southern racist dixiecrats became republicans after george wallace, richard nixon, and ronald reagan courted them. We kicked you all out. So now the GOP had to cleanse you all in religion and sanctify you to be the wrapped in religion quasi patriots you are now. Read much... I don't think so....

mom_of_three 2 years, 11 months ago

"uncorked extremist left?" That's rich, coming from the party of Santorum and Romney, who believe gays shouldn't have the right to marry their partners or even exist for that matter.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Well we coulod all agree not to use terms like that?? I don't believe that such comments are limited to the right??

Shelley Bock 2 years, 11 months ago

You should check Fox newspapers in the United Kingdom, "News of the World" and "the Sun", as to how to "hire private investigators to look into the personal lives..." Fox reporters are always being investigated for invasion of privacy and stalking. Recently, the top editors of the Sun were arrested for paying off governmental employees and policemen for secret information. Murdock and his son are constantly flying to the UK to either close the "News of the World" or to save "the Sun". ("The Sun", a "family" newspaper complete with a bare-breasted model on page 3 of ever paper.) Last I heard was that News Corp. had to fork over 150 million GB pounds, something like over $250 million for damages for such activity.

Fox has the reputation in the UK of being the lowest of the low scummy, sensationalist papers with lurid photos and sleazy stories. I'm certain that Fox has already used that method against their Democratic targets. Check out "the Sun's" website. Can't do that for the" News of the World" because it was closed. Check out more independent British websites for an honest telling of the News Corp debacle.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

So your argument is that because a group in a foreign country does it we should do it?

Shelley Bock 2 years, 11 months ago

Not the least. Fox News already does snooping into personal affairs of everyone. Democrats can't out-fox Fox News by doing something they're already good at doing. News Corp is a global corporation and has reporters who have worked in the UK and the US. So, the likelihood of it already occurring in the US by Fox is high.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

So now your argument is that they do it here. OK. If it is not legal we need to arrest somebody. If it is legal I suspect the issue is not limited to FOX. In fact the news article suggested that a group funded from the left is going to do it to Fox employees. Sickening either way!

jayhawklawrence 2 years, 11 months ago

I don't understand why you seem to target liberals.

It seems to me that the reason the middle class is having a harder time is because they are not competing. The game is not about liberals and conservatives. It is about who has power to influence and who does not.

The middle class is made up largely of self reliant and responsible people who are primarily focused on their own situations such as raising a family or following their chosen careers. They are not necessarily organized politically.

The trade unions and the large corporate interests are the ones who are lobbying congress and who have the money and the time to invest. These gropups are historically entrenched in Washington and have their own culture of influence which is about as rooted as Kudzu or Zebra mussels.

Many of the philosophical and political arguments that we often get so caught up in are a waste of time in my opinion because the real game is about the money.

I wonder how many of these issues are smoke to cover what is really going on in the back room and how naivete we have allowed ourselves to be.

If your representatives are caught up in a historically corrupt process, when will they have time to work on solving real problems. Very little I suspect.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Amen. I only pick on Democrats because they do not, in at least this space, acknowledge that both parties are not acting in the interests of those who work and pay the majority of the taxes.

Just consider the simplistic response to the matter of so many people not paying federal income taxes. Equating payroll taxes (that buy a specific service for the payee) and income taxes that in addition to actually paying for the operation of the government transfer money from one person to another

jayhawklawrence 2 years, 11 months ago

I agree.

I also acknowledge that I tend to vent about Republicans whereas I know we are getting it from both sides.

I don't think the process can fix itself unless citizens start complaining more and resisting the temptation to look the other way when they know a politician is being untruthful. It is the same as compromising your values.

Over time that cannot be a good thing.

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

And sales taxes, and property taxes.... <--- Even the poorest worker ends up paying toward things that help in the operation of the government.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Do you understand the difference between levels of government?

Sales taxes are paid to support local and state governments and tend to hit the poor harder. Property taxes are also to pay for state and local governments but tend to hit the middle.

Both local and state governments in general must balance the budget or raise taxes that impact most of their constituents. Only the federal government seems to be able to raise taxes without consequence and those taxes do not impact the lower half of the middle class- almost half the voters.

Judging by the noise on here that half knows it and does not want it to end. They want ever increasing taxes on the upper half of the middle class. Makes you wonder who is responding on here – those who want more and want somebody else to pay for it??

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

Indeed I do understand how our government functions. To claim that the poorest do not have "skin in the game" is deceptive framing of the reality that they do, indeed, pay taxes. You're attempting to move the goalposts and claim that the taxes they do pay are somehow all taxes that don't count.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

So by your notion because we pay federal income tax we should not have to pay sales or property taxes??

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

Strawman is full of straw. I said no such thing.

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

The trade unions ostensibly represent the interests of the middle class and lower middle class, but they've been shoved from the negotiating table in recent years. It's been all about the large corporate interests - on both sides of the political spectrum. Superpacs are now where it's at.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Really. Who shoved them away? Union representation continues to decline except for government unions. Could it be that the majority of employees to be unionized do not see the benefit?

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

Union membership is down for a variety of reasons, one of which may be that workers no longer understand why unions could benefit them, sure. There's been a deliberate demonization of unions through the right wing propaganda machine. You'd know that if you actually read the book you're trying to reference with your blog post.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Guess those right wing fanatics are overpowering. With so much power why is Mr. Obama in office??

There is no end to the ability of the left to blame anybody they choose. I guess we need to make people join union s if they will not do so on their own

I admit I chose one part of the book to reference but frankly I found the book of little academic value.

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

Is that how they say "All I read was the Wikipedia summary" these days?

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Tuch

Where did I post anything about George Will et al, organized religion, racist Southerners, rural or urban people ad nausea?

I just asked why you are willing to forgo most gains from a lifetime of education and work? Simple.

Lane Signal 2 years, 11 months ago

"Maybe they are just smarter than their liberal brethren and really do vote their economic interests!"

George, are you claiming that Republican agendas are better economically for the upper middle class? I don't see it. I don't claim that the Obama administration has done much for the middle class. I have been very disappointed in the Democratic party's economic agenda, but I really don't see the Republican agenda as superior. Republicans are willing to keep in place tax cuts for the middle class, but only if the tax cuts for the super rich are left in place. Republicans would like to cut social programs to save tax payer money, but they seem to want to give all the savings to the super rich and to corporate interests. Few in either party seem to have any interest in paying down the debt. Republican's would shift a higher tax burden to the poor, but only to give it to the rich, I think. I have no confidence that the Republican agenda will have any positive impact on the middle class. I would also argue that social and other issues that don't seem directly tied to economic policy can have a big impact on the economy. Military policy and our likelihood of going to war seems to me to be the most glaring example.

scaramouchepart2 2 years, 11 months ago

The middle class is taking the biggest hit in loss of jobs since they are educated enough to get higher paying jobs which tend to be the jobs rich corporate America are cutting and even smaller righ wing Milton Friedman followers and leaving people who expected another ten years of work stranded and losing their homes which they bought as prime loans. Medicare is a joke, but it is all they have and there is nothing else for everyone to count on. By the time you pay all your medicare monthly payments you cannot afford to continue to pay for you home. 401K and other retirement funds dried up recently after corporate America used every unethical predatory practice in the book in order to up the bottom line for the shareholders who happen to be the top 10 people in the company and not the average stockholder. You condem the liberals who support human services for the bottom line, but you forget that the bottom line stops when the job is lost along with their retirement. The middleclass has been paying to help the poor for years and now the rich want the middle class to pay for them. Obviously there is a big difference and it is the conservative party that is demanding the middle class hand out. Corporate America wants the priveledge of personhood without the responsibities such as taking the American people out the presidential elections through financial support and demanding the middleclass become the new slave labor with lower wages and no benefits, but they do not want to pay any taxes to help the people they have cut their pay and cancel their benefits or laid off with very little left in their retirement funds. And now they are going after insurance and healthcare for these middleclass people you are claiming should wake up.

We Have woken up! The problem with middleclass conservatives is if they believe hard enough the rich will let them in to their 10% ters and that is the saddest thing to watch. Someone who believes they are smart being taken in by the very people they support.

Anyone wonder why the LJWorld didn't put today's headlines in the online paper. "White House nixes further NBAF funding"? Talk about liberals.

scaramouchepart2 2 years, 11 months ago

Oh for the blogger. Simple. It is better than giving it the rich and having nothing when we are laid for for the bottom line.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Huh? If the two parties were in fact helping the middle class your comment would be unnecessary. I remind you that when the Democrats had total control they did not raise taxes on the rich. They waited until the midterm blocked that capability. Neither Democratic leader (House or Senate) could get their own caucus to raise taxes on their rich donors until it was too late and it could not happen.

Instead they raise taxes on the upper half of the middle class in all the many ways I posted. The bottom line remains. Do you want to surrender half of any gains you make over a lifetime as a professional?

If you want to have government take at least 24% of GDP_ that will still not be enough - the take will approach 70% at that level even if the taxes on the rich and corporations actually happen.

Do your homework and understand who is doing what to whom

scaramouchepart2 2 years, 11 months ago

Moderate; . Your rich idols took our retirement and you want us to support them? You should learn the real truth about what has happened. Check these out on reliable sites not FOX. You want to know where everyone's money went - To the rich who are wanting more. Goldman Sachs fraud, securitized loans and CMO (Collateralized Mortgage Obligations), Holland Tulip Scandle - its important because so many corporate American companies followed the same tatics. AIG, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Enron, Countrywide Mortgage and all their equally greedy counterparts. Check out Albert Carr and his teachings that business is just a game and the middleclass are just pawns. Then check out how many other corporate businesses play the game. Corporat American gaining peoplehood through the courts when funding presidential elections, but refuse to accept the responsibility of peoplehood. Everytime businesses decided to be unethical the only way they can be stopped is through government intervention. Age Discrimiation, Endanger Species Act, and the many others even OSHA

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

I hate the rich. I can not stand Hannity as he stands (or sits) and argues why we should not tax him more and his argument boils down to Capitalism will not work if we tax him.

Jobs went overseas because your elected officials and mine chose to compete you with low cost foreign workers. Business is as trapped in that decision as you are. If they can not supply a product cheaper domestically than the foreign alternative they can not survive operating at a loss.

You and small business are actually allies against big business and their friends in the government elites (elected officials of both parties) who feathered their own nests at your expense.

beatrice 2 years, 11 months ago

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George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

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beatrice 2 years, 11 months ago

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George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

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Alceste 2 years, 11 months ago

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beatrice 2 years, 11 months ago

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George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

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Alceste 2 years, 11 months ago

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beatrice 2 years, 11 months ago

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George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Blackcopter says: George, are you claiming that Republican agendas are better economically for the upper middle class? I don't see it. I don't claim that the Obama administration has done much for the middle class."

Absolutely not. Their agenda approached unbridled capitalism - absolutely wrong. Until we can find a way to get a party that supports the middle class I personally prefer divided government. Lousy solutions but is there a better one??

Mike Ford 2 years, 11 months ago

all of the stuff I mentioned is the baggage you carry in assailing people like me. It's easy to attack other people when you duck the obvious. Ducking the obvious is modus operandi for the GOP these days. Bank and GM bailouts originated under Bush....duck the obvious and blame Obama.....Auto bailouts didn't work.... duck the obvious like Mitt Romney does and blame Obama...The GOP deregulated and appointed lackeys to run agencies into the ground from 2000 to 2008... duck the obvious and blame Obama....The GOP is now rehashing supply side and trickle down nonsense that even former Reagan cabinet member David Stockman called nonsense and said that the proponents of this nonsense should know better,,,, fyi...if it didn't work in the 1980's and Bill Clinton had to fix it in the 1990's.....guess what...it's not going to work now.....oh well one can stick their head in the sand in they please....

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Tuch

Help me here. Where in what I wrote was I doing anything to you?? Note my comment to BlackCopter –I have no love for the Republicans.

The question remains how much of a lifetime of education and labor do you wish to give the government to give to others. Does 50% not seem excessive?

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Alceste says among other things Again, where we differ....to the point of polar extremes is "What is the Middle Class"? A single person making $100k is NOT middle class. A couple? just maybe.

The tax code is geared for married couples. Single people pay out the nose far moreso than the married."

Moderat6e Responds:

What makes you think we disagree? I abhor taxing single and married differently. I also do not think we should reward child rearing. The tax code should raise revenue not reward personal choices.

AS far as who is in the middle class - almost all of my blogs deal with married and mostly with children. I posted the fact that locally a sheriff’s deputy and a teacher near the end of their run can make in excess of $100K. How, by any stretch of imagination, do you consider them other than middle class?

As far as trading houses – no way. We chose this home because the neighborhood is what it is and the people in it are what they are. We lived for a while in California and remember the wrecked cars, the all night blow outs, the property neglect and the like that can happen if you do not chose carefully. I am sure there are some good neighbors in homes in Lawrence of lower value than ours but finding them from 2000 miles away was just a trip too far for us.

Alceste 2 years, 11 months ago

Buddy: This house been a family property for nigh onto 75 years and I'm the first to TRY to sell it. Why? To get the hey out of Crazyville.

Enjoy your wealth along with your fancy $400k house: YOU are EXACTLY what is wrong with the way the US Military thinks and functions: MYOPIA and ENTITLEMENT. It's rough seeing your standard of living deteriorate, isn't it? That is because you never bothered to learn to do without when you had staff and field hands to mow your lawn. shrug NASA be damned.

CUT VA benefits! Reduce military pensions to OFFICERS! More and more of "US" believe you were given a free ride.....services rendered notwithstanding.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Great. Mr. Obama is doing so. The promised free medical care is becoming ever more expensive. The retirement is under review with an aim to make it moiré like a 401K. .

It is interesting to note that what appear to be the major cut in his new budget is $13 B out of the military people he keeps idolizing. Remember Colonels are not born that way they start out as privates and then lose their way.

Go figure.

Alceste 2 years, 11 months ago

You're right......they DO lose their way; get co-opted; cop a sense of entitlement and like to blame the poor in Kansas when they foresee hard times a comin'. Why not pick on the Generals instead of the privates?

camper 2 years, 11 months ago

I believe that investment income should be treated as earned income. I do not believe that passive income should be treated more favorably than punching the clock and working 40 hours per week. Take Mitt Romney for instance, it was estimated that he made about 22 million in investment income. Though he claims it was success, I differ. If you pull the covers off, his firm(s) basically walk in to struggling companies (most of whom go bankrupt or have largescale downsizing and or lafoffs) and Romneys group walks away with a lot of money. I don't consider that succes or frankly talent. Here are some obscene numbers if you are fortunate enough to sit on investments that earn that much. Here is your pay scale:

$22,000,000 per year broken down into smaller segments: Earnings per day $60,274 Earninings per hour $2,511 Earnings per minute $41.85 Earnings per second .70 cents

Nice work if you can get it.

Armstrong 2 years, 11 months ago

While were on the subject of numbers, here is something to think about.

From MSNBC no less 2009 Barack Obama. My goal is to cut the current inherited ( G W B $ 8 Trillion ) defecit in half by the end of my first term. Today $ 15 trillion total defecit

Contrast that to

2009 Sam Brownback inherited $ 186 million shortfall. Today + $3 million

Done with Hope and Change yet ?

beatrice 2 years, 11 months ago

Armstrong, how many times are you going to be incorrect about the amount of the deficit under George W. Bush? Previously you said it was a laughable $4 trillion, it has now doubled to $8 trillion in your posts and that is still below the actual amount of $10.626 trillion the day Obama took office. I'm not saying Obama has done a great job with the deficit, but why not tell the truth about it? Seriously, why do you keep repeating false numbers? Here is one source, but there are many: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20095704-503544.html

Why do so many of the "conservatives" on here not adhere to the truth in waging their arguments? I get why you would do it on this blog, but in general, why? Are you so afraid your argument is so weak that you have to fabricate the support of it?

Armstrong 2 years, 11 months ago

You need to change your name from Bea to Miss -The point. Really? Then you try to cloud the isssue with bagging on conservatives - again. Old strategy and it fails. So I mad it reel simpl just for you Miss-The point

Obama got G W B's defecit and made it bigger after telling us his goal was to cut the original defecit in half by end of first term.

Braownback inherited Sebelius defecit , eliminated it and now shows a positive before the end of his first term.

Duz that sownd betr

Mike Ford 2 years, 11 months ago

lippencott...50% is nonsense....O'Reilly grabbed that number out of the air because he knew people like you would repeat it until others believed you. My pastor parent paid 31% for many years as self employed. This fear of taxation is nonsense. My father paid a higher rate than Romney and had social security now to show for paying in. He also got a liver transplant which made him leave the pulpit. You whiners scream like you get nothing in return for taxes paid. Heck, you let a dimwit start two wars and use taxes for missiles and haliburton no bid contracts. Why didn't you gripe then? it's not hypocracy....no...forget solyndra....investigate haliburton.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Sorry Tuch I calculated the number from the IRS web site. I don't trust the media - any of it!!

Mike Ford 2 years, 11 months ago

really, conservatives are the kings of using strawman.....they''re practicing this nonsense as we speak....

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Anybody have any substantive data or logic to refute my offering? So far all we have is attacks on conservatives fox news and me.

Fuzzy math - better than the math in the 2013 budget

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

I know a good Thomas Frank book that would refute your offering, but you obviously haven't read it.

kochmoney 2 years, 11 months ago

I'm not going to do your homework for you. You've got time to blog nonsense without knowing what you're talking about, so you've got time to read a book or two.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

If you have a substantive response, please share it. Otherwise why should I waste my time?

How does it differ? 1. The upper half of the middle class is not paying a great deal as posted? 2. The upper half of the middle should pay all that I documented?

The bankruptcy of the left in that it cannot even defend why it is doing what it is doing??

tbaker 2 years, 11 months ago

During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office. That works out to about $17,000 per American.

Why is it morally right to regard some individuals as servants to those in need, rather than as independent beings with their own lives and goals? What is noble about a morality that turns men into beggars and victims – those taking government hand-outs, and those forced to work in order to pay for them, the bailed-out and the bailers?

What happened to the American ideal of fierce self-reliance which held the right of the individual to exist for his own sake. The founders knew that this is the only possible basis for a free country. Today, it’s freedom or service - the pursuit of happiness or of the "public good"--the Declaration of Independence or the endless crises of the welfare state - self-interest or self-sacrifice.

There is a tipping point and where this all ends and people have to go back to taking care of themselves. We are moving toward it and accelerating.

notaubermime 2 years, 11 months ago

"During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office."

That is not even close to being true.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Unfortunately as we go down this path more and more people are not preparing themselves to earn their own keep. In time when the costs of all of this come back to bite we will go the way of Greece.

Only the riots will be much larger and the pain - particularly to those who are not able to provide for themselves - much greater. Note I make exceptions for our collective obligation to help those who truly can not help themselves – but I really do not think that is half the population

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Alceste

Just who is blaming the poor in Kansas for what? Am I blaming the poor by postingt the costs that we all pay (some a lot more than othere) to support the system we currently have.

tbaker 2 years, 11 months ago

The debt has increase $4.212 trillion since Mr. Obama has been the president. Federal debt is currently $16 trillion+. If Mr. Obama's budget was passed as written, it would increase to $26 trillion over the next 10 years. Go to the Treasury website and see for yourselves.

Our federal government needs to be cut by at least half. Several cabinet-level agencies need to be closed. In 1946, federal government spending was cut by 76%. Go research what happened to the country after this occured. Our government can't even agree to cut the rate of growth in spending, let alone actually cut the spending.

No one I care to associate with objects to helping those who cannot help themselves. My problem is being compelled to send the fruits of my labor to people who "will not" help themselves.

parrothead8 2 years, 11 months ago

"An unbiased reading of the last four blogs suggests..."

Who is doing this "unbiased" reading?

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Morning

You must be bored to be back here

I waa sking for an unbiased read by all of you.

Naturally I am biased. I would argue so is everyone else. It is hard to put aside cherished beliefs and actually read something you do not like.

tbaker 2 years, 11 months ago

Reading something you object to as a matter of philosophy is an exercise based entirely on personal bias, which everyone is entitled to. Objecting to an ever-growing body of facts is an exercise based on irrational denial. The difference is as obvious as it is disturbing. The number of people who believe we can wish away our country’s fiscal problems with happy thoughts is large and growing.

George Lippencott 2 years, 11 months ago

Perhaps the motive is not happy thoughts but the hard reality that almost half the people pay no federal income taxes and could care less what great new spending the feds undertake (unless it helps them and then they are all for it).

Daily I see numbers as to how some federal; program will create jobs that will produce more money than the program costs. The calculation never considers the loss of revenue from money taken from somebody else to pay for the program. By this math if we took it all and the feds spent it all we would all be rich.

lunacydetector 2 years, 11 months ago

What is the Matter with Liberals, in general?

most of them should be classified as sociopaths.

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