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Occupy Whatever - to What End

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A simple question for all the posters. There are about 100,000 people in Lawrence – probably half are adults. There are maybe a few hundred associated with the occupy Lawrence action. There are 300,000,000 people in the US with probably 100,000,000 adults and a few thousand in the occupy whatever movement.

Why are the opinions of those few so valued over the opinions of the rest of us not squatting on public/private property and bleating mostly incoherently? Are only the opinions of protesters valued? What about the opinions of the workers of this country? What about the opinions of our police/firefighters/military? What about the opinions of our educators (not the union that claims to speak for them). What about the opinions of our homemakers? In fact, what about the opinions of the thousands who work on Wall Street and in our banks that are not part of the 1%?

Seems to me as if our media is not focused on real news but is once again pursuing contrived news. That pursuit makes it hard for the rest of us to sort issues. Could that be the intent?

Comments

Bob Forer 3 years, 2 months ago

"Why are the opinions of those few so valued over the opinions of the rest of us not squatting on public/private property and bleating mostly incoherently"

Nonsense. What evidence do you have that the opinions of the protesters are more highly valued than the opinions of the "rest of us?" In fact, your opinion contrary to the protesters has been published in an officially sanctioned LJW web log. I don't see an opposing opinion from one the protesters on this site, and by using your absurd logic, one could surmise that the anti-protesters' opinions are more valued.

Furthermore, just because one is not amongst the protesters doesn't mean that he or she disagrees with them.

Finally, you apparently lack appreciation for democracy, where citizens have the right to express their opinions even if they are in the minority. Don't you know that when the civil rights movement started, they had little to no support amongst the general population? Does that fact render their beliefs invalid.

George, you're smarter than that. Next time think a little more carefully before posting such embarrassing drivel.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

I never claimed to be particularly smart but

I wish I knew what they stood for as the press has been trying to illicit that for days. A few have responded rationally and coherently. Many have not. Pointing loudly to the obvious warts in our society is not worth the coverage. Many of us do that here. I would love solutions to be offered that are consistent with our laws and culture.

And that is the point. We are all talking about them as if they had something unique to say. I would suggest that the press should interview common folk and see what they have to say and in fact that is what I thought I wrote.

Majorities in this country are difficult to pin down. We usually let out elections determine the majority opinion. We do have polls that give us insight. Neither of us know what the “majority” thinks particularly since we are not sure what this si all about - except unhappiness and that is also my point – the suggestion these people speak for most of us is at best an assertion and is probably more a hope among those who think they agree with them.

So I stand by my “stupid" blog and would love an answer as to why they are getting all the “press”? I think “Bob, the plumber’s helper might just have a few thoughts we could consider.

Kendall Simmons 3 years, 2 months ago

I've been wondering this myself. On the OWS website it says "We are our demands"...which made me roll my eyes.

bearded_gnome 3 years, 2 months ago

George, going by their own words and their signs, many want "a revolution." many wish to end capitalism as we know it. according to a New york Magazine poll of the Occuhppies on Wall Street: 34% of them believe our government is worse than Al-Qaeda; 37% believe that capitalism is inherently immoral.
I hope to put together a list of their demands/protests soon. I'm a strange guy: I actually watch C-span, sometimes at 3a.m.
that's one of my sources on these people.
you might wish to read the recent article published in the british Daily Mail. it aptly describes what has been going on on Wall Street. sorry I don't have that link handy at the moment.
you make the correctinference in your blog: all the time and energy devoted to he occupiers by the media tends to dramatially overvalue the occuhippies' opinions.

their demands/protests cover the whole set of so-called "progressive" causes from elevating the global consciousnes to antiwar, feminism, etc.

Kirk Larson 3 years, 2 months ago

"many wish to end capitalism as we know it."

Yeah, like capitalism where a CEO can make tens of millions of dollars while driving his company into the ground.

where despite decades of increase in worker productivity, wages are stagnant.

where huge corporations gamble away our money, get enormous bailouts of tax dollars, and pay big bonuses to the idiots who lost our money in the first place.

You mean THAT capitalism? Ending capitalism as we know it does not mean ending capitalism.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

And yes, I think they have an absolute right to protest. I think Bob does also.

uncleandyt 3 years, 2 months ago

Bob's down there. You should go talk to him.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

No Bob is woking two jobs to provide for his family and just does not have time to camp out in NYC. In fact you seem to imply the OWS crowd speaks fro Bob. IMHO they do not.

deec 3 years, 2 months ago

In the sense that it should not be necessary for him to work two jobs in order to provide for his family, they do.

deec 3 years, 2 months ago

A global movement to end corruption in government and the dominance of corporate greed over the world is "real" news. Thousands of people worldwide standing up to be heard is news. Or is it only real news if they do so in Libya, Egypt, Greece or Berlin? It is not difficult to find out what the Occupy movement is about, or what some proposed solutions are; indeed, they've been posted multiple times on the various threads here on LJW regarding the Occupy movement over the last week or two. The Lawrence branch of the Occupy movement is in solidarity with the bigger groups in bigger cities. It is a small group here, but they are a part of the larger movement on six continents. One source lists 2230 Occupy communities worldwide. Contrary to the attempt to paint it otherwise, the Occupy movement is made up of students, workers, professionals, homeless, housewives, and retired people Even military veterans are participating. http://occupymarines.org/ http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

OK. If we are standing up against corporate greed and corrupt government then I am all on board that notion. Exactly how do we propose to fix it? I cannot imagine that there are many fellow citizens who are for corporate greed or government corruption. I have always felt the hard part was how to fix it. I do not think we have very much of an awareness problem.

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

Amen! Hell, I'll even give it a double or triple amen.

There are a lot of things wrong with the way our country is being run, but until we put these basic reforms into effect, nothing much can be done. Our government has been bought by those with enough money to buy it. And that ain't you and me.

deec 3 years, 2 months ago

I think there is an awareness problem, precisely because of the reasons you highlighted below. The news is infotainment. If it bleeds, it leads, all that sort of thinking. We are socialized to believe the winner of some random reality show is more important than the winner of the local, state or federal election. We are conditioned to believe in parties, in teams. We are intentionally distracted by social issues that, while important, are used primarily to keep up us from thinking about the real problems in society, like joblessness and the interrelation between the financial industry and government. The Tea Party sees the problem as one of government corruption, but fails to address who it is that corrupts them. The Occupy movement tries to focus on the relationship between the two sides of the corruption coin. They've chosen to focus on the corporate side of the coin, but are very much aware that there are two sides. The Occupy movement has chosen the camp format to raise awareness, to try to educate people that it is a global problem. They want people to look, really look, and educate themselves, about why the world's economy is in such pitiful shape. It is not random. Regarding solutions:repealing Citizens United, restoring upper echelon tax rates to pre-Reagan levels, term limits; strengthening rules governing ethics, are all some of the things being suggested. One set of proposed solutions, while not official, can be found here: http://coupmedia.org/occupywallstreet/occupy-wall-street-official-demands-2009

verity 3 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for the information---very good website.

My question is why are so many people unaware? That is our own fault---the information is out there and not so hard to find.

Hudson Luce 3 years, 2 months ago

Here's a suggestion:

"The Occupiers stand for the proposition that the United States Government has been turned into a Corporatocracy - that the only entities which have a real voice in governance at least at the Federal level, and in many cases at the State level, are corporations and individuals with very high net worth (also known as the One Percent.) This Corporatocracy has subverted and corrupted the Government in many ways: Here are some of the problems they're looking at:

  1. Legislation is written by corporate lobbyists and is introduced, carried, and advocated for by members of Congressmen who are financially tied to those corporations, where the legislation and regulations arising therefrom advance the corporations' interests over those of the people; [Make this practice a felony for the lobbyists/corps and an impeachable offense for the legislators and create a private right of enforcement.]

  2. Legislators accept large campaign contributions in many ways from corporations and high net worth individuals, and tend to grant direct access and be influenced by them, and give others only indirect access and very little influence; [Make this practice a felony for the lobbyists/corps and an impeachable offense for the legislators and create a private right of enforcement.]

  3. Legislators accept high-paying jobs with the corporations which they support and work for during their terms in office, or go to work as lobbyists for them after their term in office is over; [Make this practice a felony for the legislators and corps and create a private right of enforcement.]

  4. Judges make decisions in favor of corporations and high net worth individuals which benefit those entities at the expense of the taxpayer - and then resign and go to work for those same corporations: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27059 [Make it a felony for judges to do this for 10 years after they resign as judges, and prohibit them from direct or indirect employment by those corps or entities for whom they made favorable decisions]

Hudson Luce 3 years, 2 months ago

  1. Student loans have been made non-dischargeable in bankruptcy - a law written by the lenders who stood to benefit hugely by it, and introduced and carried by bought-off Congressmen: Collinge, Alan. The student loan scam : the most oppressive debt in U.S. history, and how we can fight back. Boston, MA : Beacon Press, c2009. ISBN 9780807042298 http://lccn.loc.gov/200801223 [Repeal the laws making student loans undischargeable in bankruptcy, and prosecute lenders and schools which have participated in kickback schemes and othe forms of collusion under the RICO laws.]

  2. Makers of fraudulent mortgages have remained unindicted and unprosecuted despite large amounts of evidence showing that they committed fraud, and they continue to benefit by their wrongdoing due to collusion by the government in these schemes: http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/10/lenders-put-lies-in-liars-loans-and.html [Can be fixed by investigating, indicting, and prosecuting people and corporations (under the RICO laws) engaging in those transactions - my suggestion is to appoint William Black () to do this.]

  3. Regulatory agencies are “captured” by the corporations they are supposed to regulate, and corporate lobbyists and executives are appointed to agency jobs - or agency heads are given corporate positions after a long history of making decisions which favor the regulated corporations: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124580461065744913.html
 [Can be fixed by legislation making it a felony for corps to hire agency people earlier than 8 years after their retirement/resignation and making it an impeachable offense to appoint corporate people to agency jobs, and giving a private right of enforcement to the people.]

  4. The doctrine of “corporate personhood” and judicial decisions, such as Citizens United, based on it should be legislatively overturned: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125314088285517643.html [Can be fixed by appropriate legislation.]

This list is not exhaustive or complete, but it’s a start.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

I am just fed up with the press highlighting small groups and avoiding the real job of educating and reporting on the vast majority.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

he human interest story is fine but once not over and over again. If thi9ngs were only as simple as the OWS movement seems to cast them.

Corporate greed is without specifics. Returning the maximum to their shareholders is their legal duty. If they break the laws prosecute them. Seems to me we are. So exactly what do you want to do about greed? How do you regulate decisions made to support fiduciary responsibility? Is this another case where a lot of people do not "like" something and want to change it without a clue as to how?? Shipping jobs off shore is essentially national policy or we would not have dropped our protective tariffs. Even Mr. Obama is trying to “buy” corporations by giving them tax breaks to try to keep jobs here. If GE pays no taxes could it in part be that we legally gave them that break in furtherance of national goals? Demanding that they repatriate money made overseas when they are in fact a multi-national corporation is childish. If the nation where they made it does not chose to tax it just where do we get off demanding they bring it here to tax?? I suppose many of you subscribe to the notion that “the majority” determines what anybody can keep. Not in our constitution! I tried in a blog once before to get the group to define “greed” and made little progress. “We know it when we see it"! Hard to write laws to address that.

Government corruption is likewise hard to pin down. When you go to your elected official and demand they make me shovel snow that is your right. It is up to the elected official to draw the line. If I make a contribution IAW the law to get them to rethink that action it is also within the law. Putting a clause in a bill voted on by the whole Congress and signed by the president that gives a break to the local factory so it does not go off shore is not corruption (see Obama above). Corruption like greed seems to be in the eyes of the beholder. Obvious corruption we prosecute every day.

Limiting money in elections if done across the board and enforced (no PACs, unions, corporations, rich donors, etc.) might help. Better we just term limit to minimize entrenched corruption. Better still use computers to shuffle election districts so we have fewer "safe" seats.

I would also introduce a wealthy tax for ten years that would draw down on the accumulated wealth out there that was socked away because of preferential tax treatment and rates. I would go back to the pre Reagan rates on income above $1M. I would define a standard deduction as 5% of income and limit deductions to the cost of earning the money taxed. I would eliminate taxes on taxes. The homeowner exemption would continue but be limited to a few hundred thousand on the primary residence and be phased out over twenty years (so as not destroy the housing market) I have solutions. Where are the OWS?

meggers 3 years, 2 months ago

I wouldn't consider OWS a "small group" when you consider all of the protests happening on a global scale. I'm not sure why you're demonizing them, as they are expressing the same frustrations I've heard you yourself mention in this forum. The difference is that they've chosen to leave the comfort of their homes and make their voices heard in a very public way, instead of just sitting on their computers complaining.

You also imply that none of the protesters are representative of the working class. That is just patently false. You might consider doing some research before jumping to such biased and unfounded conclusions.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

  1. I implied no such thing as I make claer I don'y know what they stand for. Could you be reading in or are we creating a strawman?
  2. There are 7 billion of us in the owrld. A few thousand is a small group on that scale. There are 100,000 here in Lawrence so a few hundred are a small group.

meggers 3 years, 2 months ago

You said this:

'Are only the opinions of protesters valued? What about the opinions of the workers of this country? What about the opinions of our police/firefighters/military? What about the opinions of our educators (not the union that claims to speak for them). What about the opinions of our homemakers? In fact, what about the opinions of the thousands who work on Wall Street and in our banks that are not part of the 1%?'

You attempted to marginalize the protesters by differentiating them from "workers" whose opinions you apparently believe are more deserving of an audience. I don't see how it could be interpreted any other way and you are flat-out wrong in your premise. The protesters DO include the working class.

Comparing the number of protesters to the global population is just plain silly. Most any event would seem insignificant by that measure- including major earthquakes, hurricanes, and even the events of 9/11.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

And that somehow means I do not consider the protesters regular folk. Me thinks you protest too much.

The protestors have put themselves forward and do not claim to speak fro any group. They do seem to claim to represent th 99% (tax issue). Bob the plumber's helper has not put himself forard and should be along with a whole lot of other people, interviewed as the protesters are.

Small and insignificant group compared to the population of the worls or Lawrence. You seem to want to argue they speak for all of us. Maybe you. Not me. And that is my point. Only by asking Bob will we find out.

meggers 3 years, 2 months ago

You did it again. How do you know your plumber's helper isn't a part of the OWS protests? To put it simply, you don't.

meggers 3 years, 2 months ago

http://indyreader.org/content/voices-%E2%80%9Coccupy-wall-street%E2%80%9D

ROB – A plumber working on the new World Trade Center buildings. He came out to walk with a sign at the park on his lunch break. He is in the Local 1 union.

“This is all truth out here, it’s just gotta be voiced…. You can’t go wrong with the truth…”

“Everybody’s angry right now, you can see it. But I think these are all good people, nobody wants to hurt anybody…”

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

vertigo WROTE…

1st step would be to repeal the SCOTUS ..."

mODERATE rESPONDS: With you except on SCOTUS. Like it or not that is now the law of the land. "Good Morning, I would like to introduce you to my friend Mr. Bobble Corporation"

Besides, your other points make that moot.

llama726 3 years, 2 months ago

This is an annoying double standard. When the Tea Party was getting started, no one was asking them for a specific pathway for them to implement every one of their policies and they didn't offer one. All they offered were comical hats and anger at taxes.

llama726 3 years, 2 months ago

Heh. Tell me I'm completely wrong, but you say the Tea Party's solution was to vote for people who agree with them. Yep. OWS wants the same thing.

Why are we so lazy as news consumers as to demand a small set of bullet points? I get that you're a Tea Party fan, and I've insulted your team (just like insulting your favorite sports team), or at least that's how you present yourself - but seriously, if you can't see why this is a double standard, then I'm afraid nothing I can explain to you will help you there.

funkdog1 3 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, they were for less reckless government spending and less taxes AND they were against so-called "Obamacare" because they didn't want "socialized medicine" to divert funds from their Medicare. Can you say "hypocrite"?

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

My BLOG! I DID NOT ENDORSE THE tEA pARTY EITHER. HOWEVER THEIR NAME IS THEIR MESSAGE. NO NEW TAXES (tEA pARTY).. How could you have missed that??

Ken Lassman 3 years, 2 months ago

George, I enjoy you attention-getting blogs; you of all folks should appreciate what the occupiers are doing--exactly what you do in your one man posts, and pretty much for the same reasons!

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

You caught me.

Unfortunately the OWS movement has triggered a visceral aggravation in me. I really do look for achievable solutions. There was nothing that aggravated me more when I was playing leader than when one of the led came forward with a “big” problem and no solution. First it assumed that the rest of us were not aware (usually wrong) and second it left the solution to those of us who did not have one or we would have done something about it already.

In the case of the OWS, I pretty much assume most of us are aware (and angry) at the state of our nation. Polls show that over and over again. The problem is finding agreement on how to fix it. Our leaders (corporate and elected) will just throw out something to placate the voices and we will end up where we were or worse.

Most of us do not need the voices as we are already frustrated. Exactly what good is done the cause when Fox interviews a scraggly protester and gets an inane response? For that matter what good is done when CNN interviews an articulate protester who nails the problems but has no solution. Is this one of those cases where the proof is left to the student? That will leave us just as divided as before

Hudson Luce 3 years, 2 months ago

I've done this numerous times and no one on the "right" seems to listen: Here's a suggestion:

"The Occupiers stand for the proposition that the United States Government has been turned into a Corporatocracy - that the only entities which have a real voice in governance at least at the Federal level, and in many cases at the State level, are corporations and individuals with very high net worth (also known as the One Percent.) This Corporatocracy has subverted and corrupted the Government in many ways: Here are some of the problems they're looking at:

  1. Legislation is written by corporate lobbyists and is introduced, carried, and advocated for by members of Congressmen who are financially tied to those corporations, where the legislation and regulations arising therefrom advance the corporations' interests over those of the people; [Make this practice a felony for the lobbyists/corps and an impeachable offense for the legislators and create a private right of enforcement.]

  2. Legislators accept large campaign contributions in many ways from corporations and high net worth individuals, and tend to grant direct access and be influenced by them, and give others only indirect access and very little influence; [Make this practice a felony for the lobbyists/corps and an impeachable offense for the legislators and create a private right of enforcement.]

  3. Legislators accept high-paying jobs with the corporations which they support and work for during their terms in office, or go to work as lobbyists for them after their term in office is over; [Make this practice a felony for the legislators and corps and create a private right of enforcement.]

  4. Judges make decisions in favor of corporations and high net worth individuals which benefit those entities at the expense of the taxpayer - and then resign and go to work for those same corporations: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27059 [Make it a felony for judges to do this for 10 years after they resign as judges, and prohibit them from direct or indirect employment by those corps or entities for whom they made favorable decisions]

Hudson Luce 3 years, 2 months ago

  1. Student loans have been made non-dischargeable in bankruptcy - a law written by the lenders who stood to benefit hugely by it, and introduced and carried by bought-off Congressmen: Collinge, Alan. The student loan scam : the most oppressive debt in U.S. history, and how we can fight back. Boston, MA : Beacon Press, c2009. ISBN 9780807042298 http://lccn.loc.gov/200801223 [Repeal the laws making student loans undischargeable in bankruptcy, and prosecute lenders and schools which have participated in kickback schemes and othe forms of collusion under the RICO laws.]

  2. Makers of fraudulent mortgages have remained unindicted and unprosecuted despite large amounts of evidence showing that they committed fraud, and they continue to benefit by their wrongdoing due to collusion by the government in these schemes: http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/10/lenders-put-lies-in-liars-loans-and.html [Can be fixed by investigating, indicting, and prosecuting people and corporations (under the RICO laws) engaging in those transactions - my suggestion is to appoint William Black () to do this.]

  3. Regulatory agencies are “captured” by the corporations they are supposed to regulate, and corporate lobbyists and executives are appointed to agency jobs - or agency heads are given corporate positions after a long history of making decisions which favor the regulated corporations: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124580461065744913.html
 [Can be fixed by legislation making it a felony for corps to hire agency people earlier than 8 years after their retirement/resignation and making it an impeachable offense to appoint corporate people to agency jobs, and giving a private right of enforcement to the people.]

  4. The doctrine of “corporate personhood” and judicial decisions, such as Citizens United, based on it should be legislatively overturned: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125314088285517643.html [Can be fixed by appropriate legislation.]

This list is not exhaustive or complete, but it’s a start.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

I testified before our legislature and laws were changed. I do not think we are as powerless as you imply. It sounds to me as if you want a totally different system. Perhaps you would explain what it is?

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

MODERATE REPLIES TO aGGNOSTIC

The human interest story is fine but once not over and over again. If thi9ngs were only as simple as the OWS movement seems to cast them.

Corporate greed is without specifics. Returning the maximum to their shareholders is their legal duty. If they break the laws prosecute them. Seems to me we are. So exactly what do you want to do about greed? How do you regulate decisions made to support fiduciary responsibility? Is this another case where a lot of people do not "like" something and want to change it without a clue as to how?? Shipping jobs off shore is essentially national policy or we would not have dropped our protective tariffs. Even Mr. Obama is trying to “buy” corporations by giving them tax breaks to try to keep jobs here. If GE pays no taxes could it in part be that we legally gave them that break in furtherance of national goals? Demanding that they repatriate money made overseas when they are in fact a multi-national corporation is childish. If the nation where they made it does not chose to tax it just where do we get off demanding they bring it here to tax?? I suppose many of you subscribe to the notion that “the majority” determines what anybody can keep. Not in our constitution! I tried in a blog once before to get the group to define “greed” and made little progress. “We know it when we see it"! Hard to write laws to address that.

Government corruption is likewise hard to pin down. When you go to your elected official and demand they make me shovel snow that is your right. It is up to the elected official to draw the line. If I make a contribution IAW the law to get them to rethink that action it is also within the law. Putting a clause in a bill voted on by the whole Congress and signed by the president that gives a break to the local factory so it does not go off shore is not corruption (see Obama above). Corruption like greed seems to be in the eyes of the beholder. Obvious corruption we prosecute every day.

Limiting money in elections if done across the board and enforced (no PACs, unions, corporations, rich donors, etc.) might help. Better we just term limit to minimize entrenched corruption. Better still use computers to shuffle election districts so we have fewer "safe" seats.

I would also introduce a wealthy tax for ten years that would draw down on the accumulated wealth out there that was socked away because of preferential tax treatment and rates. I would go back to the pre Reagan rates on income above $1M. I would define a standard deduction as 5% of income and limit deductions to the cost of earning the money taxed. I would eliminate taxes on taxes. The homeowner exemption would continue but be limited to a few hundred thousand on the primary residence and be phased out over twenty years (so as not destroy the housing market) I have solutions. Where are the OWS?

Ken Lassman 3 years, 2 months ago

So, George, the OWS in Occupy Lawrence are open to hearing about your solutions. Why don't you go down and focus some of their considerable energy toward accomplishing your plan? Who knows? They might just become allies in your cause instead of an irritant because they are getting the attention.

PS They have a General Assembly where you can get on the agenda every night at 6pm. Be there or be square.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

I prefer to work through the current system but thank you for your suggestion.

It does seem as if you dismiss anybody who has a thought by suggesting they go sell it to somebody else or go protest. I think the OL group should be selling their ideas on how to fix whatevery they do not like to the rest of us - you know participating in a political dialogue.

Is there a problem with our currect democratic process? Should we throw it away because of human frality (selling one's office)

uncleandyt 3 years, 2 months ago

Your fellow humans simply want a hand-up to be available to you and other strangers if you ever need help. And that's not the only "it". Roll opening credits, the story is just beginning. Disarm your radio. Endure a jalope. Your stuff is safe from the fleabaggers. There, there...there, there

Mixolydian 3 years, 2 months ago

I wholeheartedly agree with the teaparty stance on out of control government spending and debt accumulation. Unlike them though I would support an income tax increase on those making 500 grand a year (those 1%'ers in income) if, and only if, every dime of that revenue went to pay down the debt and there was a balanced budget amendment passed.

The trouble with the OWS crowd is they believe that the "pool" of money in the country is a finite amount. I'm more interested in policies that grow and enlarge the pie than splitting it.

beatrice 3 years, 2 months ago

George, I will tell you why their opinions matter -- they vote. When they see something for the common good, something that will help the 99 percent ... oh, let's say a new library at the cost of $18 million, they may vote to approve it. This might turn out to be true more and more often, legislation meant to help the many and not just the monied. A library might just be the start. If this idea of doing things in the political arena that favor those who aren't the top one percent takes even greater shape, then their "bleating" will be quite coherent at the polls when it comes to what people want. Their opinions will matter more and more if they really do end up having their desired results among a majority of voters.

I'm not in agreement with the general notion of camping out and disagree with interrupting those who are going about their legal business, just as I am not in favor of anti-abortion protesters when they attempt to block the operations of a legal clinic. However, as a liberal I can appreciate many of the issues that are being raised and discussed as a result of the OWS group. I also believe the more the protesters are ridiculed by the right, the more it will prove to energize those voters against Republicans, despite the fact that the OWS isn't exactly a pro-Democratic party movement. It is beginning under Obama's watch, after all, unlike the lack of protest from the Tea Party members during Bush's administration.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Well, I am not sure that the true leaders of the OWS action group are jobless or living on the dole. I also do not think that corporations in general are the real villains. I believe people are and that controlling people is what our society does and we can do better.

I note the date on the URL is 2009. Seems the leadership has been planning this for some time. I note that most of the ideas offered are elements of the Democratic Party approach. I suspect that the only way anything will get done is if some middle ground is found. We have seriously limited malfeasance in banking (again) with recent regulations. We already have laws about COI that we do not enforce. Perhaps if we enforced those we would not need new laws. I have had experience with the revolving door. It is not all evil. Many of the political appointees I worked for had previously been in business (corporations). They were mostly honest and sincere people. I had only limited interaction with elected officials. They were not so honest and sincere.

I will observe that some of the offerings suggest a limited understanding of our government. I have lobbied. I have written legislation. That legislation was not always favored by the right. Everybody lobbies. We have a specific constitutional right to lobby.

I did not see my suggestions in the list. The list seems to be focused on business and not on government. If the problem is corruption in government just messing with corporations will not end it. If the problem is corporate greed I for one need a better understanding of what that is before I want to further stifle economic initiative.

beatrice 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes, I too have wondered why the protests aren't more focused on DC and against the legislation that allows the influence of business on how we function as a nation. If looking to promote a more socialist ideal of how wealth should be distributed, going to the wealthy with your demands isn't going to change anything. It will only help those who build walls and security systems. The source of the issue is truly in Washington.

notaubermime 3 years, 2 months ago

Is the government truly the only thing that needs to be changed? Cannot people also benefit by re-examining where they spend their money and whether or how it supports companies whose actions they may not agree with? Sometimes I think it takes someone shouting at the top of their lungs to get us to pay attention to what we are doing.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Interesting. What did yoiu have in mind? I spend most of my money at small to mid size small businesses. Are you after them or only Phillips 66??

notaubermime 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't really think that the size of the business is the problem. It is easy to point to gargantuan companies and fault them for greed and practices which harm the average American worker, but those detrimental practices (such as outsourcing to foreign countries) are not unique to big companies.

Similarly, I'm not going to claim to know what you should find to be an acceptable business practice and what is not. That is up for you to decide.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

I would also observe that the populace may not be as clueless as some of you suggest. I do think that the problem as some of you see it is not the same problem that some of the populace see. Kind of like Kansas. There is Lawrence and then there is a majority of voters who elected Mr.. Brownback.

Calling those people "clueless" does nothing to change their opinion. In fact, it tends to reduce the perception of the opinions you offer.

uncleandyt 3 years, 2 months ago

The "clueless" do not know that they have been called clueless. Perception has been successfully reduced. A whole lot of folks are busy thinking about the hundreds of things going on in their personal lives, and don't pay attention to disturbing details, big or small, of the wider world. If they do turn on the news, they get stories about OJ Simpson and Lindsey Lohan instead of Alan Simpson and Lindsey Graham. It is also time to Occupy the Newsrooms.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

So, you will help them see. Sounds like a dictator.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Bea wrote: George, I will tell you why their opinions matter -- they vote. When they see something for the common good, something that will help the 99 percent ... oh, let's say a new library at the cost of $18 million, they may vote to approve it. This might turn out to be true more and more often, legislation meant to help the many and not just the monied. A library might just be the start. If this idea of doing things in the political arena that favor those who aren't the top one percent takes even greater shape, then their "bleating" will be quite coherent at the polls when it comes to what people want. Their opinions will matter more and more if they really do end up having their desired results among a majority of voters.

Moderate Responds: And that is exactly what I want to know. What do they want? Nobody is going to vote any which way based on a bunch of people sleeping in parks and arguing they are part of the 99$. Just about all of us are and we sure do have some significant disagreements among us as it is.. I don't know about anybody else but I need more.

beatrice 3 years, 2 months ago

There isn't one cohesive message and there likely will never be. Some people are clearly just angry at the system, or mad as hell and they aren't going to take it anymore. However, listen without needing it summarized in a nice, neat package and you will hear plenty of thoughts and ideas coming out of all of this. Some will be just as ridiculous as the Tea Party "Keep your government hands off my Medicaid," while others will make much more sense. The good ideas will rise to the top, particularly when it comes to questioning laws that favor the top one percent.

I wouldn't discount the power groups can have on voter opinions. If something gets packaged as appealing and important to the 99%, it may very well have influence. Look at politicians who have tried to package themselves as Tea Partiers, including those who have been spending like crazy while in office in the past. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Of course, you don't really get it because you largely aren't the intended audience. It doesn't really matter if you get it or not. If at least 52% of the 99% get it -- whatever it turns out to be -- that will be enough.

This may well prove the movement that really does put a socialist in office, rather than the just barely left of center individual we have now.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Well, you have to have one on the ballot but in general I have no issue with your comment. In fact I agree with most of it

Flap Doodle 3 years, 2 months ago

Does anyone remember Al Capp's S.W.I.N.E? Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything! They were the ancestors of the individuals camped out in South Park now.

deec 3 years, 2 months ago

Then I guess they should pull the police off harass-and-beat-up-peaceful-protesters duty and put them back to work fighting violent crime.

deec 3 years, 2 months ago

Yeah,peaceful. I see a lot of pictures of people being shoved and attacked physically by police. A few may opt to defend themselves when assaulted, but overwhelmingly the violence in the Occupy movement has been from the police.

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't know if the police want to spend their budgets on arresting peaceful protesters, nor do I think they should carelessly. Some communities are worried about just keeping the police to address crimes and most are looking at budgets that include lay offs. I don't think all of them relish being some conservative loudmouth or politician"s private army. http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Under-pressure-to-make-arrests-police-and-2232934.php

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

One final shot.

If the evil is in corporations and corporations represents about 5% of our businesses it would seem our elected leaders could manage that with the powers they have. In all of this I have yet to see any specifics as to what corporations in general do that represents greed – other than make products and money.

If corporations and apparently a lot of others buy elected officials is it really the smartest thing to give government more power that will in the end be corrupted? Perhaps we should address the corruption in government before we make it worse!!

Where is the beef???

Blessed4x 3 years, 2 months ago

OWS demands are simple. They want to print their own money.

http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-sf-zombies-lets-print-our-own.html

So flippin' funny! Can't make this stuff up. I love the look on the guy's face in the background when she makes the print money comment.

Btw....I just printed a billion Rich dollars. I think I'll buy South Park and kick out the hippies.

Fossick 3 years, 2 months ago

Irony of the day, OWS doesn't think the homeless pull their own weight:

"If you're going to come here and get our food, bedding and clothing, have books and medical supplies for no charge, they need to give back," Digioia said. "There's a lot of takers here and they feel entitled." http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/occupy_wall_street/2011/10/23/2011-10-23_where_vagrants_excons__takers_find_a_home.html

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't camp out. I support Occupy, because I think economic law in America should be equal. The $congress and $enate has been out of control for a long time. Tax law and economic law should not be different for the wealthiest on the back of working families. Your theory, only those that choose to camp or stand on corners are supportive of OWS is wrong. I also wonder when we can't afford investigate theft, some communities want to decriminalize domestic violence to reduce judicial budgets, but we can afford for our police force to spend thousands on harassing peaceful protests. The use of arrest and harassment of protesters who are against the current economic unrealities is not serving our community . Our community need is for the police do what they need to do. To protect us, not to guide our politics.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Pace Wrong. My theory is that the OWS represents the OWS. Nobody represents the rest of us unless we agree. It is hard to agree when you do not know what they stand for. I have posted possible solutions to "government" corruption. What are their solutions.

Like many on here you seem to want this to be the start of a big movement to "change the world" like the notion of change in Mr. Obama's first campaign. He had a platform. OWS does not.

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

well since you were so careful to correct my assumption, which was based on your phraseology, Don't put your assumptions on my words, based not on my words, but on your fever.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

I know everybody else is wrong. Hope you plan on running for somehting it would be a shame to waste your talent

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Somebody (corporations?? elected officials??) are evil. The 99% are good. Fix it! Give me more and give them less. Power to us!!!

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

George, if you are changing your argument made in your blog, through your comments, go for it. I do think you have the right to change your stand and refute what you said earlier. Heck, how is Romney doing?

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Huh?? I have no intent to change my argument- For the record that was why all the focus on a small group who have self proclaimed no real agenda. Why not interview the rest of us about our opinions on real issues.

You are beginning to sound more and more like a politician.

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

MMM, So you are saying that a great number of people support the Occupy movement , even though they don't camp out or stand on cornters?

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Pace. I said no such thing. Are you enrolled in ESL?

fastwalker 3 years, 2 months ago

Pace is a registered troll. pay no mind.

headdoctor 3 years, 2 months ago

Right idea, just the wrong person. One of the biggest trolls happens to be a verified user.

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

Well George seems to be changing his message, First he said "There are 300,000,000 people in the US with probably 100,000,000 adults and a few thousand in the occupy whatever movement." I said he was wrong in his argument, that there were many in support of the movement that did not camp or stand on the corner. That his premise was wrong, he was wrong. He then commented "That I like many wanted to change the world" which is an interesting topic, but not one I addressed in my remarks. That was how he felt, not what I spoke to. I appreciate he has his emotions, I don't wish to own words he ascribes to me from his emotional base. I was talking about support for the OWS, which he said , since he did not understand or agree (hard to tell from his remarks which) he concluded there was none except a few, who supported or understood the reasons for protest. I stated that I was supportive since I thought we had developed economic laws that were unfair. He did not address that.
I am sorry if my expressing a different opinion is troll like to you. I don not mean to denigrate the person when I defend my view point or address what I see as an inaccurate depiction of reality.

Liberty275 3 years, 2 months ago

"Why are the opinions of those few so valued over the opinions of the rest of us"

They have opinions just like you, but they like to stand around in the park making them known. Both are equally valid, they are just stating theirs louder.

"Seems to me as if our media is not focused on real news but is once again pursuing contrived news."

Nah, they play another game.. The media has one job, and that is to make every election result 50.1 over 49.9. That way you'll watch more news, watch more commercials and put money into the bank accounts of the various media outlets.

They pick the dogs that look the best and throw them in the ring.
You watch the dogfight. They get rich.

When you realize they are all liars (except this award winning news corporation and the picture on channel six), you can start to ferret whichever truth you want. Pick one. They are all the same.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Good Morning Pace,

If you want to believe that the OWS groups speak for a significant number of us you certainly have that right.

I for one am still searching for what they believe and how they plan to achieve their ends.

I observe that you are quite talented. Not only do you exhibit the manipulative talents of some of our elected officials you are also a gifted writer of fiction.

I still believe that the story is not with OWS but with the anger in the land. Unfortunately our press being somewhat lazy by nature seeks the easy way and uses the OWS as a surrogate for the rest of us. They could of course have forums with various citizens to determine just what we feel and what we think should be done about it. Of course polling data can provide insight into that – without explanation.

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

You consider it manipulative to disagree with you. You say there is only a few thousand in this country that support OWS. I say you are wrong. And you find that tricky. Good luck.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

No, I find you putting word in my mouth - isn't that a strawman - tricky.

I have been silent on the numbers in the OWS as I have no way of knowing. I have observed the visible numbers are small compared to the population and suggest we go to the population to see if they agree with the protesters (as if you can agree with a non-position and a non-solution). We already know from polls that there is a large number who agree that the system is "broke". Are you afraid that if the press moves beyond the small community prostesting they will not find the support you belive is there?.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

No, I find you putting word in my mouth - isn't that a strawman - tricky.

I have been silent on the numbers in the OWS as I have no way of knowing. I have observed the visible numbers are small compared to the population and suggest we go to the population to see if they agree with the protesters (as if you can agree with a non-position and a non-solution). We already know from polls that there is a large number who agree that the system is "broke". Are you afraid that if the press moves beyond the small community prostesting they will not find the support you belive is there?.

pace 3 years, 2 months ago

You said "There are 300,000,000 people in the US with probably 100,000,000 adults and a few thousand in the occupy whatever movement."

Then you said, "I have been silent on the numbers in the OWS as I have no way of knowing."

One of those statement is mostly correct. You don't know. Even though there are a variety of reports that do discuss polls of how many are in support. You might not of looked at them or want to.
I have used your words , except for one sarcastic remark, where I was making fun of how you changed your remarks. If your argument is to call me names, call me manipulative, that is not argument, we don't even share the same dictionary.

Since the OWS protest is broad based, and covers decades of bad laws and economic conditions, no, I don't agree with all points and step in unison with every other supporter of OWS. You seem blind and deaf to what they are saying because it is not a 8 word slogan . I consider it a conversation between people. It is a good conversation to have.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

notaubermime (anonymous) replies… I don't really think that the size of the business is the problem. ….”

Moderate Responds: In our system as in most democratic systems there are laws. If people or corporations violate laws they should be and are prosecuted. Now we also have many opinions not codified in law. Right now business ahs no responsibility to “look after” the employees. There are logical and economic reasons to do so but beyond regulatory and legal requirements that is it.
How would you change the system to eliminate greed as you see greed?

notaubermime 3 years, 2 months ago

I wouldn't. Declaring something to be greed is an inherently subjective moral valuation. I don't think the government should be in the business of legislating subjective moral ideals. That's when public awareness of the action and personal choice of patronage of that company come into play.

Now if you want to look at the tax code, business regulation and tax breaks that often favor big businesses and create a economic advantage for only certain companies, there is probably a fair bit to look at there. That's just a guess though, and I am sure that there are a lot of people who are more qualified than I am to speak to that.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

I do look at the tax code and they do what you say. Unfortunately, the only people I have seen on the floor of the House or Senate are elecetd officials. They, not corporations, set the tax code.

If you are worried about money in elections I share your concens. That is why I 1. Want to limit it for everybody 2. Place term limits 3. Use computers to set house districts.

You will never legislate morality.

notaubermime 3 years, 2 months ago

"You will never legislate morality."

People will always try. It never succeeds the way people intend, but there will always be somebody convinced that they are right and that this time will be different.

I don't disagree with your ideas for reducing the impact of donations on candidates, I am not overly optimistic that there is a system which cannot be corrupted. Put enough money on the line and someone somewhere will find a way. Perhaps the approach should be more of a combination of increasing the difficulty of being corrupt as well as finding a way to increase the enforcement of corruption violations. JMO.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Pace I stated in my last post above (to you) that I have observed the visible numbers are small compared to the population and suggest we go to the population to see if they agree with the protesters (as if you can agree with a non-position and a non-solution).

That last set of words are important. I read the NYT and WJS every day. As of this AM the protestors were still presenting themselves as individuals with no set agenda or demands. Nobody and no polling data can establish support for a non position. Now if you want to argue that a large segment of the population shares their angst about the current state of our affairs - well that is a no brainer.

So, in summary, you have a lot of support for being angry but no support for at what or what to do about it

CountyResident 3 years, 2 months ago

Moderate: I believe the purpose of any group that protests is to change public opiinion regarding a given subject or issue. The Occupy Lawrence group may only be a few hundred, but that is how other protests, such as the civil rights movement started. Time will tell if they will be successful.

I view their methods, while different, are the same as your blog. Both of you are trying to get others to agree with your points of view. I noted that 29 individuals commented to your question. As a group that is not very many people. What we don't know, is how many people read your blog and ageed with you. Like wise we don't know how many people have been moved to agree with the Occupy Lawrence group.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

No argument except how do you agree with a non-position?

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

I am consistently amazed at my inability to communicate my thoughts

  1. Protests are fine in my book to the extent they do not harm innocent people
  2. I agree with Bob the WTC plumber and many others that we have an economic problem in this country that needs to be fixed
  3. To support a position I need to know what it is – the OWS movement consciously is not providing that detail
  4. The devil in always in the details. We as citizens have a right to know the details before we join any group (both parties included)
  5. Come back to me when the details are available
  6. In the meantime why is a small group with no agenda getting so much coverage? Where is the beef – the original blog point!

I abhor those of you that scream bloody murder (to include the OWS groups) about something and have no solution to the problem (excepting a general notion of “better”).

First: define specifically what problem you want to fix Second: publish a way to fix it.

Oracle_of_Rhode 3 years, 2 months ago

The OWS movement is pointing out that Washington, D.C., is a captive puppet of the financial industry. In other words, you can vote Democrat or Republican, but it's impossible to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, et al. Because of this, our (legally) bribed politicians no longer pass laws to promote the common good. Rather, they do the bidding of an oligarchy, a.k.a. the 1%. This, in a nutshell, is the core of the OWS message.

As to your other complaint about the voice of a small number of people are having a large impact — it's because these OWS protesters have committed themselves to peaceful assembly as they expressing grievances. Of course they'll get more exposure than people sitting around doing nothing to influence public debate. If you want more of a voice, go hit a street corner with your sign and your voice. Until you do that, how can you complain that your views aren't being amplified in the media?

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Give me a break. Do you have something that reflects the position of the majority of OWS protestors - because if you do you should send it to the NYT, WP and WSJ so thety can reprort it. They apparently have been unable to find that position.

I compalined about coverage not about impact. Neithere of us has the slightest notion as to impact. I am certain, however, if a more specific postions evolved for the OWS crew, it might have a bigger and lasting impact.

I bought into "change" with Mr. Obama. I will not make that mistake twice. I need the details!

Alceste 3 years, 2 months ago

Meanwhile,

Moderate (George Lippencott) occupies his $500k valued property (by his friends in the government) and dares to question anyone or anything or anybody or any entity.....all the while claiming he is "poor"? Disgusting. And from a USAF Colonel. Sit down.

$438,500 is the current valuation. See for yourself via the link below. Is "Moderate" actually one of the 1% but hiding??????

http://www2.ljworld.com/propertyvalues/?q=%22George%20E%20Lippencott%22

Blessed4x 3 years, 2 months ago

First of all a house valuation of $438K in Lawrence is not that special. Certainly not enough to prove that one is in the top 1%...not even close. Secondly, he worked for his money and purchased his home....not you. That's the difference. The OWS people want everything handed to them, Mr. Lippencott went out and earned what he has. Lastly I notice that you are not man/woman enough to post under your name but instead choose to hide behind a screen name. Your opinion means nothing until you are willing to stand openly behind your comments. Until that point, you are just a frightened little boy/girl writing nasty comments on an online website.

Alceste 3 years, 2 months ago

!! If 1%ers like Warren Buffet can own he's getting a great deal tax wise and every other wise, it's amusing that people living in $500k homes can belly ache about what they "earned"....and that includes the welfare related medical benefits from the armed services. Time to do away with them VA benefits, coupled with CHAMPUS and blah, blah, blah. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. "Moderate" wants people living on subsistence wages to pay increased income taxes AND increased sales taxes because the property tax on his castle keeps going up.....just as it's doing on ours....and we EARNED our pension and PAID for our home too. We learned EARLY on to limit our "wants". Let's not make too many assumptions. Tax the wealthy. Tax them into middleclass land. There's the solution. "Over time, the United States has expected less and less of its elite, even as society has oriented itself in a way that is most likely to maximize their income. The top income-tax rate was 91 percent in 1960, 70 percent in 1980, 50 percent in 1986, and 39.6 percent in 2000, and is now 35 percent. Income from investments is taxed at a rate of 15 percent. The estate tax has been gutted." (The Atantic Monthly: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/can-the-middle-class-be-saved/8600/4/ ).

The utilization of one's "real name" on an internet message board is more an act of stupidity than it is being "....man/woman enough to post under your name....". There is simply too much information flying about. My letters, emails, faxes, and meetings in 3d with the elected dolts from Kansas document my real name; my real wealth, or lack thereof; my property holdings; and I dare say my income tax records and anything else those mules in D.C. wanna do/obtain. A message board? Give me a break.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Wow

Envy much? No money for Medicaid? No money for medical benefits foir unions?

If you don't get it nobody should. What a world view.

Alceste 3 years, 2 months ago

It was SARCASM, Moderate.....to attack CHAMPUS and VA benefits.

Here you are wanting to tax renters (I semi agree with that, by the way); tax lower income people (no way; no how....it will probably happen, however), and even tax "middle income" people (and that means UNDER $50k per annum for a household of four).....so it just seems right that VA WELFARE (entitlements) should be impacted as well.

I do see that your whining got your street repaved back when. You advocating that "line item" be put back in the Public Works budget for the rest of us, or you just happy you got yours and now it's one of them "Let George do it" things? Wait, you're George. http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2003/aug...

What's curious is we AGREE in the concepts. Where we are miles apart is what who is the middle class. Try living on $1100 per month for a couple of months. Submit your report in triplicate. Thanks

Dullards "lead" the USA military. I'm understanding this reality more and more as the years go passing by.....

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Thank you Mr. Colson.
1. The individual who identifies himself as Alceste has a problem with military officers. He apparently had a bad experience during Vietnam. He "outed" my grade at retirement low these 26 years. I have never understood why the LJW has not reacted to his violating the TOR. 2. My home is not worth $438K it is valued at $400K. An equivalent home in say Montgomery County would list at about $200K. Lawrence is expensive. 3. Like many here my first home was valued at $75K. If you pay them down and let nature take its course you can move up and you need not be anywhere near the top 1%. Few people I have ever met started life with a $400K home. 3. For the record the top 1% is generally identified as those making more than about $350K a year. The definition is not related to house value. We make nowhere near that.

waynelsworld 3 years, 2 months ago

Just got home from my JOB so that I can pay the taxes that pay the retirement money that supports Georges entiltement to live the goodlife among the 1+ percenters. Enough said

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Wow

Real anti-military here in the diversity capital of Kansas. Sources for my being amonmg the 1% or is it jsut liberal drivel avoiding substance as always.

waynelsworld 3 years, 2 months ago

US Army..... 2 years 7 months 5 days, 5 brothers in family all have served 2 lifers. One dead. Father WW2 Vet Grandfather WW1 Vet. Card carrying Life Member of the VFW that believes that we serve our country to defend the Constitution. Not anti military..... Not Liberal No longer Consevative for many years a Conservative Republican.....Now....Strict constructionist and only recently changing to an Independant. Believe Patisan Party Politics has failed the electorate they were to represent. I have outlined several problems and provided several solutions. I do not see many here recognizing or even admitting that the problems exist and provide no alternative solutions either.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

u could have stayed for twenty and earned the pension.

Lifer brother - all I have Farther WWII and post - lifer.

A key provision of a true conservative is "rule of law” The pension was earned.

waynelsworld 3 years, 2 months ago

Problem: Corporate Greed Solution: Legislation that no corporate Director or above shall recieve compensation greater than the minimum wage for hours worked unless the Public traded company is profitable...... with stockholders seeing an increase in the value of the stock they invested in and the corporation showing a net profit. No additional salary wages tips or benifits shall be provided without performance as described above.

Problem:First Ammendment Rights violations by Cities and States: Solution: By Executive order President Obama should call out Federal Troops to protect the Occupy demonstrators from Local and State Police action. Preserving the Constitution that he swore to uphold when he took office.(Kennedy did this against George Wallace during Segregation)

Problem: Lobbyist have to much influene in Government decisions: No registered lobyist shall be allowed to come within 500 ft of any elected official unless invited by a committee in need of information while investigating for pending legislation and all such dialouge shall be placed on the record for all to see with total transparency.

Problem: Use of taxpayers funds to support Financial Institutions. Solution Legislation that absolutely prohibits the use of Public funds in support of Financial Institutions other than protecting depositors through the FDIC if they fail.

Problem: Userous Interest and Fee Charges by Banks and Financial Institutions: Solution: All banks and Finacial institutions shall be barred from charging interest or fees greater than the interest rate provided on savings accounts + 10%.

Problem: Tax Code on the Middle Class. Solution: In lieu of a complete dismantling of current tax law (which needs to be done.) The Middle Class ( Those making 250,000 dollars per yearor less for a married couple filing jointly) shall not pay taxes greater than 15% of the net income after deductions. That is 5% more than God. Any shortfall shall be paid by corporations and those making more than $250,000.00 on a sliding scale based on Government expenditures adjusted on a per year basis.....or The Fair Tax is implemented for all. (Google the Fair Tax if you do not know what it is.)

Problem: Unemployment at 9+% Solution: Tax incentives will be provided to corporations that produce jobs.The first year they will recieve a tax credit of 100% equal to the cost of the job produced, 50% the second year, 25% the third and 10% year 4 and 5.

This would be a good start....

Please respond with more percieved or real problems not addressed here. Perhaps with our collective thinking we can come up with more solutions. From there we organize into an Independant 3rd Party to elect those who also agree with these positions and are willing to accept term limits.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 2 months ago

"Problem:First Ammendment Rights violations by Cities and States: Solution: By Executive order President Obama should call out Federal Troops to protect the Occupy demonstrators from Local and State Police action...." Then he could declare the dictatorship of the proles & suspend elections. Wouldn't that be jolly fun?

"Problem: Lobbyist have to much influene in Government decisions: No registered lobyist shall be allowed to come within 500 ft of any elected official unless invited by a committee in need of information while investigating for pending legislation and all such dialouge shall be placed on the record for all to see with total transparency..." The current resident of 1600 Penn Ave would become a hermit.

George Lippencott 3 years, 2 months ago

Problem: Corporate Greed Solution: Legislation that no corporate Director or above shall receive compensation greater than the minimum wage for hours worked unless the Public traded company is profitable...... Neat – Legal;

Problem:First Ammendment Rights violations by Cities and States: Solution: By Executive order President Obama should call out Federal Troops to protect the Occupy demonstrators from Local and State Police action.

A bit much don’t you think? Wallace was block a door.

Problem: Lobbyist have Too much influence in Government decisions: No registered lobbyist shall be allowed to come within 500 ft. of any elected official

I suspect much of the problem comes from those not registered. Remember the constitution gives us the right to petition our elected officials

Problem: Use of taxpayers’ funds to support Financial Institutions. Solution Legislation that absolutely prohibits the use of Public funds in support of Financial Institutions other than protecting depositors through the FDIC if they fail.

I agree but it was the Congress that did it. Passing a law to stop them from doing what they did means they can undo it anytime they want.

Problem: Userous Interest and Fee Charges by Banks and Financial Institutions: Solution: All banks and financial institutions shall be barred from charging interest or fees greater than the interest rate provided on savings accounts + 10%.

Fine by me.

Problem: Tax Code on the Middle Class. Solution: In lieu of a complete dismantling of current tax law (which needs to be done.) The Middle Class (Those making 250,000 dollars per year or less for a married couple filing jointly) shall not pay taxes greater than 15% of the net income after deductions.

Love it but be careful of the fair tax we can end up with the middle paying more and the wealthy paying less.!!!

Problem: Unemployment at 9+% Solution: Tax incentives will be provided to corporations that produce jobs. The first year they will receive a tax credit of 100%

Neat and with the tax reduction you provided to the middle class consumption might increase yielding new jobs. How about tariff protection?

This would be a good start....

Please respond with more perceived or real problems not addressed here. Perhaps with our collective thinking we can come up with more solutions. From there we organize into an Independent 3rd Party to elect those who also agree with these positions and are willing to accept term limits.

I am a centrist party advocate

Term limits Computer redistricting Limits on contributions Wealth tax Salary band on publicly held corporation enforced with tax liability Severe limits on Plumb book employees 20 % reduction in all government entities Mandated 20% reduction in college/university costs Economic impact of regulations Sundown rule on all regulations More but tired

waynelsworld 3 years, 2 months ago

George, It looks like we are not that far apart. But in the course of human discourse it is comprimise that gets results. This is good. And that is all I have to say on that matter. I am tired too. Sincerely, Wayne L. Brisoce.

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