LJWorld.com weblogs Llama's Pasture.

Political Discourse


I'm through with it.

You know what I'm talking about, LJWorld.com.

I'm through with the people who have tirelessly accused our President of wanting to convert our country into some sort of Stalinist regime. I'm tired of people who cannot exist outside of absolutes, of people who purport to be "moderate" but hold extremist beliefs. I'm sick of many of the things on this very website.

Readers, I'd like for you to answer this for me. How does the political discourse in this country improve? Or is it hopeless?

Let's have a dose of common sense. Socialism is a dirty word here in America, but we need to keep in mind that there are shades of gray to everything. Are we socialist because the government is providing markets for health insurance companies to sell us a product? Nope. What is socialist about the Obama administration? Two major actions are pointed to - the takeover of GM, and the takeover of banks. The bank takeovers hearken back to the Bush administration, and General Motors is going to buy itself out of government control. Take a deep breath. Think critically. This government doesn't want to run our businesses.

What's so wrong with striking a little balance? America, you're failing me. You're failing me because 5% of you get out there every day, go to your newspaper website, and post - thousands of times - about Obama being a socialist. America, more of you fail me when you read this website and you lack the critical thinking to really understand what you're talking about. Then when someone points that out, you accuse them of elitism. Grow up. It's time for all of us to grow up, on both sides of the aisle. A disaster is a disaster is a disaster, end of story.

For those on the left who still don't think that personal responsibility matters, you're wrong - but there are few of you who think this. This country wouldn't work without some motive for people to act. That motive in our system is money. There's not going to be an era in my lifetime where that's not true. But remember that motive also serves to corrupt, individuals on the right, perhaps moreso than any other motive outside of political power.

Dictators don't have term limits. Stop throwing around the words socialist or Nazi, unless you understand the horror of what you mean when you say Nazi, or you understand that the United States has had "socialistic" policies for many years, but that doesn't mean there aren't private solutions. Think critically - please. I'm not saying you have to agree with the other viewpoint, but what makes America great is not our ability to remain unchanging forever. It's our ability to adapt - to take the best the world has to offer, and then we're going to make it better.

If there were an honest effort to take the political discourse in our country to debates of ideas, rather than the pure waste we see today, then we could finally have some peace from the squawking media personalities on both sides of the aisle. And if we could remain a little more calm, maybe we could do something productive - rather than alienating even more of the people who already don't care about politics in America. Just a thought.


llama726 7 years, 10 months ago

In before barrypenders with something about Darwin

llama726 7 years, 10 months ago

In before barrypenders with something about Darwin

Stuart Evans 7 years, 10 months ago

well you see... in all actuality, the rift between Republicans and Democrats is engineered by the media and the leaders of those parties. This gives us another distraction in life to ignore the real situation. The New World Order which has been in construction since the early 1900's is coming together just as expected. The European Union, NAFTA, etc. are all parts of this long term plan that the worlds elite have in mind. Keep an eye on the Council on Foreign Relations. They are the folks who tell the President and the Secretary of State how it's going to be. Barack/GWB/Clinton.. it doesn't matter. they all work for the same guys (and it aint us!)

So, being fed up with what's going on in American politics is pretty silly, because regardless of R or D, they are all Them, and you are one of us (also known as the Haves & Have Nots)

Flap Doodle 7 years, 10 months ago

Translation "now that my ox is being gored, people should behave better". Mind that screen door on your way out.

Boston_Corbett 7 years, 10 months ago

Now, now, Snap. I didn't see any complaints about anyone's ox being gored. In fact, that is one of the points. You are better than this.

madameX 7 years, 10 months ago

I agree with you, llama726, unfortunately I have no answers.

llama726 7 years, 10 months ago

I made that comment because someone actually made a blog post showing Barack Obama with a sickle and hammer logo dressed in a dictator's military uniform. That is irrational and insane, and I reserve my right to call people out for being irrational about things. And the same 10 people who constantly post their irrational drivel cheered it on.

llama726 7 years, 10 months ago

Four star US Army Generals bear a sickle and a hammer? I didn't know that.

llama726 7 years, 10 months ago

Liberty - I understand the core of what you're saying - I just don't agree that business is responsible enough, nor can consumers hold them accountable enough, for me to say that one is better than the other. At least we can vote out politicians. As someone with a relatively limited income, if I make $50,000 a year, I have 10% of the say that someone who has $500,000 a year. Nevertheless, I also don't like the idea of everyone being completely the same, either. For every side of an argument, we can find a fair solution considering both sides and not just one.

George Lippencott 7 years, 10 months ago

Not sure it is related to income or to connections. Graduate from Harvard or Yale and you have clout - anuwhere else and they will allow you to peek

Flap Doodle 7 years, 10 months ago

BTW, today is the birthday of Pol Pot, who is currently in third place in the ranking of 20th Century Communist leaders for number of own subjects killed.

Liberty275 7 years, 10 months ago

How is socialism working out for Greece? Or North Korea? Or Cuba? Or the USSR?

Limited socialized programs propped up by capitalism is a system that can succeed. America is proof of that. Pure socialism always fails, and always has a dictator. On it's own, it is indeed a bad system and one we should try to avoid as much as possible.

"societal evolution that we are by nature a socialistic peoples"

Maybe some people are. I endure limited socialist policies, but I endure them at the tip of a bayonet. I'm not willing to pay for section 8 housing, food stamps and reduced bus fares for people that won't work and could care less if I exist, but I'm forced to. OTOH, I am willing to give my neighbor anything I have that he needs because he would do the same for me. I suppose you could accuse me of being a pretranscended tribalist, and a lesser person than you more socialistic types. I won't argue against that, but I'm glad I'm not of your educationally-cloned socially-advanced herd.

"Can the quality of discourse change?"

Not while the current president that lied through his teeth throughout his campaign sits in the oval office and the congress is ruled with backroom deals struck in the middle of the night. Not when a state changes their laws on confirming elected senators solely to protect an unpopular piece of federal legislation. The nation is too rotted for any discourse right now, so the quality is moot regardless.

llama726 7 years, 10 months ago

I didn't say it was any better then, Tom.

bad_dog 7 years, 10 months ago

Yup, that's where it all started-the "W" years. It reminds me of the old children's taunt; "I'm rubber you're glue..."

The problem I have with such descriptions is a) they are historically inaccurate and b) I don't believe such observers would include the likes of Rove, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc. ad nauseum in their criticism.

You do nothing to objectively analyze, rather you merely (and predictably) castigate the O/P/R trio. You seldom, if ever bemoan the shortcomings of those you affiliate with. At best, you remain silent. You would rather tear down the opposition than build coalitions. It isn't always going to go your way as witnessed by the 2008 elections. The pendulum of political opinion swings back and forth such that one day you're the windshield, the next day the bug.

IMHO, there's plenty of blame to go around for both sides. It doesn't matter so much who started it. We all need to try to stop it and strive to remember how to resolve problems constructively. Concern yourselves with solutions more than blame attribution.

seriouscat 7 years, 10 months ago

I too stared my own blog out of frustration over the way comments devolve into one sided talking points. There are far too many people who would rather win arguments than actually learn anything or take a more nuanced approach to the issues of the day. And yes, the LJW is particularly bad. The same handful of people dominate the LJW comments like playground bullies and make it seem futile to even participate.

Can it be improved? I don't know if the general trend in comments can be improved, but I DO think that folks who want to make a positive change are more likely to do it effectively in the real world than in the cyber one.

beatrice 7 years, 10 months ago

L276, what you are witnessing are the rants from sore losers, those "patriots" who are all gung-ho for 'merica, until their party loses. Then they hate - HATE - what America stands for. It is sad.

The right wingers want to "take our country back." Indeed, they do. Thinking people, however, want to take our country forward.

George Lippencott 7 years, 10 months ago

Ok. Do you hate the "right wingers"? What do these people look like? I want to go forward but I want some say in where that is. Does thta make me a "right winger"?

yourworstnightmare 7 years, 10 months ago

Come on. An anonymous forum with tantalizing stories posted to encourage this sort of behavior? And you expect people to behave differently? The LJW is a for profit company who want as many people as possible posting so that they see the ads on the threads. Anonymity just adds gasoline to the fire.

This is entertainment and should be considered nothing more. It would be nice if people discussed things like rationale beings, but this is not the case.

So, get out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat. Otherwise, enjoy.

kansanbygrace 7 years, 10 months ago

and the worst thing about commercial egoists is that they always talk about other people--people they are paid to denigrate and misrepresent.

People with great minds talk about ideas; those with good minds, events; those with tiny minds, other people.

I'd quote it correctly if I could, and cite who it came from, if I could. But I can only remember the names of a limited number of clever talkers. I think it was not Mencken.

Liberty275 7 years, 10 months ago

The blogger left out a few words. Shrub, dumbya, darth cheney, corporatocracy, fascist, astroturfers, hicks, greedy, faux news, Glen BecKKK, settled science, birthers and the ever popular... teabagger.

I won't even bother with obama's campaign lies or the sudden disappearance of the Lawrence antiwar protesters.

Once upon a time, dissent was patriotic. Hilary said so. It has recently been renamed to racism.

The time for pretty discourse has gone away. The midterms are on the horizon and 2012 is just around the corner. There exists no middle ground. I won't vote for a republican, but I'll vote against every democrat on the ticket. Let the chips fall.

Mike Ford 7 years, 10 months ago

it's funny but most of the names used towards the Repubs have truth. Cheney leaking the name of a spy to get her critic husband, NICE. Bush leaving a muey incompetante like Michael Brown in charge as my aunt and grandparents homes flooded and washed away in Mississippi during Katrina, NICE. Rehnquist calling Native American Supreme Court cases S?!T cases, NICE. The GOP Supreme Court manipulation of the 2000 election NICE. All of the FCC censorship stuff during Bush, NICE. There's many I'm not thinking of, but it goes to show that if a party acts like malevolent facists, they will be labeled as such.

George Lippencott 7 years, 10 months ago

Or did the "spy" leak her own name so as to avoid a forward deployment and separation from her new husband? Been known to happen.

Mr. Brown was no match for the politics. However, the people of LA punished their governor who ignored the standing agreements and tried to make hay with the postured federal assistance - delaying it.

The Democratic Florida Supreme Court minipulation of the same election

FCC - I guess they were the only functioning regulatory element during Bush II

And I could go on and on.

Clinton in the closet.

Clinton and the Secret Service

Clinton and the pardons

Dirty laundry all over the place.

Liberty275 7 years, 10 months ago

"it's funny but most of the names used towards the Repubs have truth."

When you are the arbiter of truth, everything you want to be true is.

"Cheney leaking the name of a spy to get her critic husband"

You spelled Richard Armitage wrong.

"Bush leaving a muey incompetante like Michael Brown in charge as my aunt and grandparents homes flooded and washed away in Mississippi during Katrina"

Just which competent person would you have put in place to hold back the storm surge from a hurricane?

"Rehnquist calling Native American Supreme Court cases S?!T cases"

Never heard of it.

"The GOP Supreme Court manipulation of the 2000 election"

Gore lost. The vote count proved it. He should have conceded before it got to the supreme court. Get over it.

"All of the FCC censorship stuff during Bush"

What FCC censorship stuff? What exactly was censored?

"There's many I'm not thinking of"

You mean like forcing American citizens to purchase products from corporations whether they want the product or not? I can't blame you for not thinking of that one. NICE.

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