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There but for the Grace of God Go I

I can't help but be drawn into the emotion of these tragic events. The comments to this story seem to reveal a difference in the way people look at life. Or perhaps they reveal a difference in how they look at themselves.

Some see black and white. The girl: an unfair victim. The young man: evil personified.

Others see the accident as the result of a series of unfortunate choices on both parts.

Yes, that is an over simplification, but I think you understand my point.

Some are outraged that anyone would leave the scene. I interpret this as meaning that they cannot imagine themselves, under any circumstances, doing the same.

Others have some empathy for the young man. I interpret this as an acknowledgment of their own fallibility.

In my imagination, I wonder what it would be like if either of these people where my children. If I had lost my daughter, could I have any empathy and forgiveness for the young man? If the young man was my son were the one involved, what would I feel reading the comments from this article?

My question is simple, it requires nothing more than a yes or no. Can you imagine yourself, or one of your children (or brother, sister, wife, husband, father, mother), in either role in this tragedy?

Let me make it clear. This post is NOT about the accident. It is about you and me in a world where bad things happen.

By Dave Klamet

October 31, 2009

In Simple Words

From the Citizen Journalism Academy

Discussion

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31 October 2009
at 12:09 p.m.

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Irish (Irish Swearingen) says…

I don't know what friends or family would do and I really don't want to guess about them. I don't drink or drive, but I do walk and have almost been ran down several times.
A couple of times it would have been my fault because I was daydreaming and not paying attention to what I was doing, and just crossed a street, not noticing where I was until I turned my head to see the driver giving me “that” look.
I always wave and say thank you. Thank you for being alert and not assuming that I would be.
Not only are we making choices, but everyone around us is, and that is what makes life so complicated.
31 October 2009
at 6:37 p.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

I do know the driver and also the owner of the car. I have known them for some time. I posted several times that it made me sad. The thing is knowing them does not change the poor way they chose to deal with it. I also know the drivers mother. The first thing that I said to the person who told me about this was. “OMG Joel's poor mother”

I have know others who have made poor choice that hurt another. I have been hurt by others and I have hurt others.( no perfection here). I expect no more from other than I would expect of myself. I would have stopped. I would have taken whatever was due me. If I saw another do something I would do everything in my power to encourage their accountablity; even if I had to make the report myself. I did in fact do this a few years ago when someone I knew commited a crime and refused to turn themselves in. The former was gone for awhile but that person is not dead which was where that person was heading. That person got angry with me and we still don't speak to this day but again that person is not dead and for that I am glad. I had hoped it would be different. In the end I guess my friedship for the person was stronger than theirs for me.
Reality is usually difficult but the truth and doing what is right shoud always be a priority.
31 October 2009
at 7:29 p.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

I had to come back to add that since the incident (in the latter part of my post) I have seen that person many times in public. They always look away. At that point I always say to myself ” But–- is alive” I also noticed my typing became a bit shotty at the end. See sometimes doing what is right doesn't feel great either.
31 October 2009
at 8:15 p.m.

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grammaddy (Anonymous) says…

Bless you artichokeheart for doing the right thing. And bless you Irish for making us take that long hard look at ourselves.
31 October 2009
at 8:26 p.m.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…

Concluding observation from “The Mission”…

“We must work in the world, your eminence. The world is thus.”

“No… Thus have we made the world… thus have I made it.”
31 October 2009
at 10:06 p.m.

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cowgerm (Anonymous) says…

I was having a conversation with one of my teacher friends just the other day. Sometimes the only difference between us ,and the ones we read about is their sistuation turned out tragic and ours didn't. Don't be quick to judge…you never really know what you will do until you live the in shoes.
31 October 2009
at 10:33 p.m.

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misplacedcheesehead (Anonymous) says…

Well, this is good food for thought. If it were my daughter who were killed, I would hope to see the driver imprisoned. I would go as often as I could to visit him, just to remind him of what he had done. And, he had better pray he get put in prison, or in my grief I might end up doing something that would land me there, too. No, to be honest, I do not believe I could ever forgive the driver.
If it were one of my kids who had hit the young lady and run off like a coward, I would beg them to turn themselves in. If they refused, I'd do it for them. Yes, it would be the most awful thing I would ever have to do. But not as awful as living the rest of my life knowing who did such a thing, and reaining silent about it.

1 November 2009
at 9:07 a.m.

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Irish (Irish Swearingen) says…

I turned my daughter in when I caught her using drugs. Today she works full time, goes to Johnson County Community College and is a very good mother to her eleven year old son.
It was hell at the time.
But, today is today and we see each other quite often. You could not ask for a better or more caring daughter.
Hugs and kisses are not uncommon.
If I had to pick a quality we should use every day I would say patience, because it takes time to work things though and you just never know how things are going to turn out.
1 November 2009
at 9:18 a.m.

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grammaddy (Anonymous) says…

Tough love works! We spend far too much time defending our children's actions when we should be teaching them personal responsibility. I love all my children and grandchildren dearly but sometimes that means standing back and letting them learn there are consequences for their actions.
1 November 2009
at 9:46 a.m.

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Practicality (Anonymous) says…

Interesting blog Dave. I know this isn't what you asked, but I had to say it anyway. Unfortunately, life experience has taught me that no one can really answer a question about what they would do in any situation without really being put in that situation. Almost everyone will say that they will stop. But, as we know, this kind of incident occurs everyday throughout America, so we know it isn't that simple. Desperate people are unpredictable, even if they have been predictable their entire life prior to the event that makes them desperate. Fortunately, most people will never be called upon to back up their claim in reality.

To answer your question specifically,

“Can you imagine yourself, or one of your children (or brother, sister, wife, husband, father, mother), in either role in this tragedy?”

Anyone who answers no is either an orphan, living in the Andes mountains like a hermit, or is not telling the truth.
1 November 2009
at 10:49 a.m.

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dklamet (Dave Klamet) says…

Practicality, I am going to disagree, or rather add one more type of people who would say no.

There are those who can only imagine themselves as the victim, who are quick to accuse, and do not need all the facts to form their opinion. I say this based on the comments to the article I referred to.

Imagining that you or yours could be the ones on guilty side of a tragic event seems something that many cannot do. Or perhaps they are can, but dare not.

Again, just read those comments and see if you don't agree.

Would I say the same thing if I or mine were the victim? I agree with you there. Let's hope we never have to find out.
1 November 2009
at 10:51 a.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

I have to believe most people would stop. I have known people who were drunk that were involved in accidents and stopped despite the consequences. This is not an issue of fear it is an issue of personal responsibility. A person either has it or they don't. That is not to say people do not err in judgement that would place them in such a situation or that they have never made a choice that lacked morals. Everyone has at some point but what a person does after such a mistake shows more about the person that the action of the mistake itself.
1 November 2009
at 11:35 a.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

Also I do not think how a person reacts to this kind of situation should be based on wether those involved are known to you or not. We cannot expect that different rules apply to different people. If we do this than we shake the very foundation of justice that we depend upon.
Right off the top of my head I can think of a couple cases where people were heinous killers. Gary Gilmore was a true sociopath. He had a rough upbring. Does that make a difference? Not when it comes to the application of justice. Gary Gilmore's Mother was forced into seclusion by the media, his brother wrote a heart wretching account of Gary's life. He still killed people. Does that change how justice is applied or how the topic is reported on?
Most people have family. Yes their actions have a effect on their family. That is also true on the other side where a victim is involved. Are we to set justice aside because one group or another might feel some discomfort as a result?
People who have posted on the subject are not passing judgement as much as they are posting opinions. A person should not have had to experience such a thing to post an opinion. In short society is not required to tip toe around a subject that has an effect on the community simply because it might hurt some other's feelings.
1 November 2009
at 6:29 p.m.

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Irish (Irish Swearingen) says…

How many think about how their actions will affect their families, especially when they are in their twenties and enjoying their individuality to the hilt.
This is why each case that comes to court is judged on its own merits and sometimes takes a long time.
Thank you, grammaddy, for your remarks. It can be tough to be a parent and there were moments I thought I wasn't going to live though it. But, here we are and my daughter is now the most responsible mother you could find. Trust me on this, she teaches responsibility and consequences to her children.
She tells me she can fully appreciate what I did now that she is a mother.
There is a tie in here to the blog. You can read Dr. Spock all you want, but until you hold that baby in yours arms you don't know.
So it is with everything in life.
4 November 2009
at 11:55 a.m.

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monkey_c (Anonymous) says…

Good Blog. I tend to agree with the reader who states that we really can't know how we would act until we are faced with the situation. I certainly would like to think I would prioritize the victims life over my own hide.
When I first read this story, then read some of the pretty nasty and emotional responses to the article I did think “But for the Grace of God go I.”
And I certainly don't drive drunk. But an accident like this could happen in a lot of different ways if distracted behind the wheel. I almost hit a pedestrian in Lawrence once because the sun was in my eyes.
Of course there is no excuse for leaving the scene…but that is where the not knowing how you might respond until it happens to you. Certainly is a tragedy for all invovlved. Obviously more so for the victim and her family.
As far as if it were my child on either side. Well, if my child were killed I would find it difficult to forgive. Yet my life and soul would be forever tainted if I did not. If my child were the offender…well, I would cry and cry a river of tears for all involved.

4 November 2009
at 1:18 p.m.

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Irish (Irish Swearingen) says…

I never sat foot in a church until six years ago when I joined the Catholic church. There were people in the class from many faith backgrounds, and there were some very interesting comments when the class was about forgiveness.
Most seemed to see themselves in the forgiving rather than the needed to be forgiven group.
It might hinge on the driver confessing, and being truly sorry, and knowing within themselves that what they did was wrong and why.
The wrong doer cannot go back and undo the act no matter how desperately they want to. They have to live with the memory.
There are some that would have condemned the late Senator Ted Kennedy forever for what he did, but we would have lost a great deal had he gone home and hid.
4 November 2009
at 1:24 p.m.

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Irish (Irish Swearingen) says…

There were two women in the car, they didn't report the accident, so how much guilt do they have.