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God's opinion of gay people shouldn't affect public policy.

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So.. there was an article in this website that was posted last Thursday. It’s about that “protect religion from a perceived threat” bill that gives pretty much anyone who wants to claim religious motivation to act out their hateful or bigoted fantasies something to lean on if they get complaints.

The actual text of the bill basically restricts local governments from doing anything to “burden” someone claiming some kind of religious exemption. Feels pretty vague and far reaching. Almost as if it could be applied to pretty much any situation involving civil rights.

Discrimination based on gender, race, age, disability, military service, “other” religions, all those things suddenly become legal if someone decides to say it’s a religious thing.

The thing that gets me about this is that the motivation, allegedly, was anti-gay sentiment. Apparently, anti-gay sentiment great enough to erase decades of civil rights history.

I’m just not sure where it all comes from. I’m not the most well-read person in the world, I’ll admit. But most of what I’ve read suggests the average gay person is as benign as the average straight person. I honestly doubt that a rainbow-colored gay-people launched bomb is going to land on anyone’s church.

There was a lot of commentary below the article, 251 comments as of this writing. The vast majority of the supporters of the bill were of the “God hates gays, and government should, too” variety.

To me, God’s feelings on any issue, including homosexuality, should be taken with a grain of salt. There’s too many ways to interpret the holy books, and too many people with differing agendas between god and the masses. “God said so” is, without other justifications, a bad reason for any action or inaction.

So, is there a real reason for this odd fear about what two consenting adults might do when they get a private moment? Reason enough to justify attacking a lifetime of civil right movements? Other than “God said so?”

I don’t think there is. It worries me that our current crop of elected officials believe otherwise.

Comments

rockchalk1977 1 year, 11 months ago

"White House Punts on Same Sex Marriage—Again"

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/white-house-punts-same-sex-marriage-again_644234.html

Is this the kind of "leadership" gay's want in the WH?

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KSense 1 year, 11 months ago

All right Morichalin, here's some stats like you are interested in. * Gibson,P (1989) "Gay Male and Lesbian Youth Suicide" In M. Feineib(Ed), Prevention in Youth Suicide (Report Task Force on Youth Suicide, Vol3,pp 110.44) Washington, D.C.: US Department of Health and Human Services. According to this study, gay and lesbian youth are two to three times more likely to commit suicide than other youths and 30% of all completed youth suicides are related to the issue of sexual identity. * In a study of depression and gay youth, researchers found depression strikes homosexual youth four to five times more severely than other non-gay peers. (Hammelman. T.L. 1990 There's another source with too much information to put on here: http://carm.org/homosexual-gay-sex-harms-no-one Yes, the article is from a Christian view point but the statistics it uses, which I gather is all your interested in, are taken from non-objective parties and they all have links to the direct source, so you can see for yourself. I hope you find the answer to your question.

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Glenn Reed 1 year, 11 months ago

@lauramoriarty:

That's why I posted this blog entry. The text of the bill in question feels like something to be waved at anything, anything at all, that might make one feel "religiously burdened."

If the bill was supposed to be an anti-gay thing, why would it be so vague? Almost anything could be considered a "religious burden" under that bill.

Don't like people marrying outside their own race? Don't like other religions? Don't like the disabled? Don't like white, black, asian, indian, native american, or any combination of races? Don't like women?

This bill has your back. You can deny services of essentially any kind to any class of people so long as you claim it's a "religious burden" to provide them.

If this whole "slash and burn" approach is inspired by hating gay folks, being gay must be hugely bad for everyone. I mean, like an apartment building bursting into flames the moment a gay person moved in.

In any case, I'm disappointed. I was hoping someone would pseudoscientific, instead of simply religious on the issue. You can always tell someone their science is wrong, and explain why. But for the truly religious, you will never get beyond the paint they put on their own eyeballs.

Someone owes me some ice cream.

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Ron Holzwarth 1 year, 11 months ago

"God's opinion of gay people shouldn't affect public policy."

I am totally unaware of any living prophets among us. They would be the only ones that could possibly know what God's opinion is. Jewish belief is that the age of prophecy ended with the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE.

Could someone please send me or publish a list of the living prophets?

(I do not consider the Mormon aka Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints prophets to be real prophets.)

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jaywalker 1 year, 11 months ago

"Straight from the mouth of God came the Ten Commandments.Moses then recorded them onto stone tablets and later in what became known as the book of Genesis. Two of them, as you well know clearly said "Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal" Hence we know, the basis of civil law comes straight from God (I should of said that instead of the Bible) and that's all I have to say on the matter. What do you suggest our laws be based on?"

So until Moses came down from the Mount it's your contention that stealing and killing were looked upon as noble past-times or something? And I'd suggest our laws be based on the inalienable rights of man, perhaps ordained by God at some point, but instilled in us from birth. We know right from wrong. We don't need stone tablets to tell us.

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jjt 1 year, 11 months ago

Is God ( the christian one) a man?

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jjt 1 year, 11 months ago

What I do find amusing is that much of the word of god was put together at the behest of a British King in the 1600s. His secretaries pulling, collating ,culling and rewriting what they thought was appropriate to go in it. Since it is generally recognized that they also made mistakes (eye of needle or world 3000 years old or missed out whole book of's for example) it seems a bit strange to base one's life and views on that particular book as being the literal word of god. There are so many bibles, which is the correct one for the actual word of god?

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Patricia Davis 1 year, 11 months ago

I don't believe in god. That is my choice. I don't believe in the bible, except for some lovely parts which I view as poetry (the commandeered Song of Solomon for example). What I do believe in is equality and justice. Homosexuality is not a choice. Our fear of homosexuality says a great deal more about us than the people who were born homosexual. Gay marriage does nothing to change your believes or your god or your church or your life.

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gudpoynt 1 year, 11 months ago

It's so simple, i don't understand why so many people have trouble understanding it.

You absolutely cannot legislate morality when it comes to things like services for the underprivileged. Philanthropy and charity must come from within.

However, we can, and must, legislate morality when it comes to things like abortion and curbing the social affliction known as homosexuality. For these are God's laws, which supersede those of man. The more that the laws of man diverge from those passed down by the infallible Father, the closer we are to tipping into the abyss of eternal damnation.

Duh.

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somedude20 1 year, 11 months ago

Wait, doctors and churches now can't be forced to do things they find immoral but same sex people can't do things they find moral? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

"So, is there a real reason for this odd fear about what two consenting adults might do when they get a private moment?" My theory is that many of the Republicans who are vocal aboout being anti-gay are in fact gay themselves. Look at ole Larry Craig, he was very very vocal about being anti-gay and look what happened to him. On the side of "god" is ole Ted Haggard who was rather anti-gay and we know how that story ended as well. Hate what you are I guess. Live and let live I say.

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Laura Moriarty 1 year, 11 months ago

Should we introduce a bill that allows people to ignore anyone's civil rights if their religion teaches them to do so? Would we do that today regarding race? I've heard people use the Bible to justify racism (as an example, consider the first two 'in the parking lot' quotes: http://www.pinponpun.com/blog/2008/10/15/things-atheists-hate-2-using-religion-to-justify-racism/)

The Bible has been used to justify slavery as well: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_slav1.htm

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phoggyjay 1 year, 11 months ago

Jesus was bisexual and consumed cannabis.

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its_just_math 1 year, 11 months ago

I really don't give a flying fig if someone is gay. But like any other non-mainstream group (trying to avoid that "fringy" word), they scream and kick and stomp the loudest, although I rarely weigh in on gay threads, it's getting old and I guess I could care less. So why did I comment? I don't really know except to say the overkill with these non-mainstream groups is annoying, to say the least.

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jaywalker 1 year, 11 months ago

KSense,

I appreciate the way you've handled the argument, and I certainly respect your opinion. And I too know that God exists, feel Him in my soul; my faith is steel. However, the Bible is not Him. It is certainly not Truth. Jesus did not pen a word. It was written by the hands of men - MEN - with all their prejudices and bias and preference; or transferring that of the society of the era.

I have relatives that subscribe to the Book as written. Life began w/ Adam and Eve not so long ago, regardless the irrefutable evidence to the contrary. Not surprisingly, women in their sect aren't allowed to pursue higher education. With the women you know personally, does it seem logical that God would truly want them subservient in any way?

The Bible can't be taken literally. Homosexuality is NOT a choice. And in case you choose to argue that such is a choice, please include the details involved when you "chose" to be heterosexual.

More than anything else, wouldn't you agree that Jesus' purpose here was to promote humanity and love? How can those principles not apply to all those made in His image? The God I know and trust is loving and accepting. Why would it stop with people He made "that way"?

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verity 1 year, 11 months ago

Any argument about the validity of the Bible is irrelevant to this conversation.

Our laws should not be based on it or on anybody's understanding of it.

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Glenn Reed 1 year, 11 months ago

Gack.

I'd hoped to avoid sparking another religion-based disagreement with the post.

@ KSense: I get that "God said so" is good enough for you. It's difficult for me to counter that argument. At least, without naming groups that do crazy things inspired by the bible.

The best, most polite, least offensive thing I have to say on that point is that I'm unmoved by it. You can shake the bible all you like, it makes it no more relevant to the conversation.

Do you have real evidence to suggest that homosexuality poses a danger to a community? Studies that suggest a causal relationship of homosexuality to violent crime would be a good start.

Without that kind of evidence, you really don't bring much to the table.

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tomatogrower 1 year, 11 months ago

If you consider gay sex a crime, then don't do it, but your religion cannot dictate to people who are not of your religion.

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verity 1 year, 11 months ago

"I honestly doubt that a rainbow-colored gay-people launched bomb is going to land on anyone’s church."

Well, maybe a glitter bomb. Which could be kind of fun.

Too many people commenting here seem to have missed the whole point of the blog.

"'God said so' is, without other justifications, a bad reason for any action or inaction."

I'll just add that people are hearing themselves when they claim that they hear God.

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autie 1 year, 11 months ago

I just cain't figure what those boys are scared of. I know quite a few gay/lesbian types and they're just regular folk for the most part. They laugh and cry, eat, sleep...all the usual stuff everybody does. I don't cotton much to no organized bunch of bible thumpers one way or the other but my Momma did make me believe that whoever that Heyzeus fellow was he taught people to go ahead and like everybody else regardless. Good blog...good point of view. And just remember, if Jesus was to come back today, the one thing he wouldn't be is a Christian.

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Glenn Reed 1 year, 11 months ago

Hmmm. Curious. The edit buttons aren't there when I try going through the "manage your blog" stuff. They're there when I click through the main page. Seems a bit counter-intuitive.

Thanks for the assist, Roe.

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RoeDapple 1 year, 11 months ago

To the left of your blog title is a "Edit post" button. Go from there

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Glenn Reed 1 year, 11 months ago

I've looked, and I can't find an option to edit or delete a post once it's published.

I don't know if that's because it's a new blog, or just standard procedure for a published post. Not that big of a deal, though. The text all came out right. Sort of.

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Glenn Reed 1 year, 11 months ago

Well, I dun screwed up my first post. I attached the wrong image.

This was supposed to go up top. :P http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc250/Morichalion/Gaypanic.png

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