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Concealed Carry: What is The Best Concealed Carry Weapon?

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Yes, you already know the answer, or at least we all hope you do. The best concealed weapon you could possibly carry into any situation sits squarely on top of your neck, between your ears, just millimeters below your scalp.Your brain, your mind, your gray matter. Capable of something like 100 trillion calculations per second, yet can leave you frozen, unable to react when faced with an event you have no experience with. Bravado abounds when we discuss what we would do in a given situation, yet very few of us as gun owners have been or will ever be forced to make the split second decision that determines if we or someone we are facing down lives or dies. And most of us hope we never do. Yet, as long we think such an occurrence could befall us, we must prepare ourselves mentally for that day.


Scenario #1: You are driving home from pheasant hunting, tired from a long day of walking through muddy fields, then driving for 6 hours so you can get some sleep before going to work the next day. Stopping for gas and a bottled water, you step out of the QuikMart to find a shabbily dressed male with gun drawn on two men in business suits. You pull your S&W Model 41 from the holster under your jacket, at the same time seeing the men in suits reaching for their own weapons. What's going on here? My first reaction would be that the men in suits were undercover police officers making an arrest. The person who presented this scenario to me said it was just the opposite. The shabbily dressed male was an undercover officer making an arrest of two drug traffickers, and the homeward bound hunter was very nearly mistaken for an accomplice. Luckily no lives were lost in this confrontation. Later the hunter realized the best response he could have made would have been to go back in the QuikMart to warn store employees and customers to take cover or leave by another exit.

Lesson learned; Unless you are in eminent danger yourself, take the time needed to fully assess the situation, determine alternative actions you can take before resorting to using your weapon.


Scenario #2: Not feeling well, you leave your job early and arrive home around 3:30 p.m. The side door entrance to your garage is open, but you know the wife isn't home from her job and your son's car isn't parked in the drive or at the curb. Taking your Colt Python from your belt, you ease up to the door when suddenly your 17 year old niece steps out. Shaken at first, and a little suspicious as to why she has broken into your garage, you finally relax a bit as she makes her excuses. Three days later you wake up in the intensive care ward of the local hospital, suffering from severe concussion inflicted by your niece's meth head boyfriend using the breakover bar from your 1/2" drive socket set. Your son found you when he arrived home from school. Aren't you glad you etched your name in all your tools, made it much easier for the police to track down the niece and her boyfriend. Too bad the firearm was never recovered.

Lesson learned; Never assume a burglar operates alone, or that your own relatives wouldn't steal from you. In this age of instant communication you could easily call for police assistance and wait within viewing distance of your home while they come to your aid.


Scenario #3: It's 2:47 a.m. You haven't set the alarm in months, it's such a bother and none of the neighbors have mentioned any suspicious behavior for a long time. Suddenly you and your spouse are awakened by the sound of shattering glass as the sliding door downstairs collapses inward. Having only fallen asleep a little over three hours ago, by the time you shake off the fog of sleep and grab the Beretta 9mm out of the closet, you already hear at least two voices coming down the hall. Throwing yourself into the hallway, you see two hulking shapes moving toward you, the one in front holding something in his hand and raising it in your direction. You begin firing your weapon, not even aware you fire ten shots into his torso before he finally succumbs and drops to the floor. Meanwhile his accomplice races back down the stairs and is into the night, never to be identified. When you turn on the lights, you find that what you thought might be a gun in this strangers hand was no more than a hammer. A deadly weapon for sure, but you are wracked with guilt, thinking you might not have had to kill him if you had seen the hammer for what it was. Not to worry though, the death of this man is ruled justified, and you breathe a sigh of relief, ready to get on with your life. That is until his family takes you to civil court, where you eventually do get a court ruling in your favor. In the mean time, legal debts skyrocket, your friends and neighbors avoid you, your co-workers call you "Killer". You and your family are afraid to stay in the home you worked so hard for. And you always wonder if the accomplice is someone you know, someone you see every day, someone waiting to even the score. Never have you kept your gun so close by and at the same time wished you had never seen it.

Lesson learned; Even when you do it right it can haunt you forever.


The three scenarios above are purely examples of possibilities. They each could have ended any number of different ways. The telling of this is by no means meant to discourage gun ownership, but to stress that using a gun as a means of self defense or defense of others involves more than being able to place holes close together on paper targets.Your own mind being prepared, staying alert and as calm as possible, ready to act in the most appropriate way is primary to any highly dangerous circumstance you find yourself in. In the event you find yourself endangered by someone who is armed, your gun is secondary, but should be one you are comfortable and confident with. It has been said, "The best gun to have in a gunfight is the one you have with you." May it never need taken from it's holster.


(images from web sources)

Comments

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

Patricia Stoneking also is one of the highly skilled, no nonsense instructors of concealed carry and related shooting skills classes at the "Bullet Hole" in Shawnee

Flap Doodle 4 years, 10 months ago

My default carry piece is a Kimber Ultra Compact in .45ACP. As Wyatt Earp is reported to have said, "the most important shot in a gunfight is the first accurate shot."

infidel 4 years, 10 months ago

I have bought and tried out many different types. Most are to big or bulky for my body. I settled on a North American Arms 22 Mag mini. I folds to look like a multi-tool on your belt or fits great in my pocket.

For the naysayers that say it is not big enough to stop anything, perhaps you could ask George Tiller what he thinks about a 22.

hwarangdo 4 years, 10 months ago

Best weapon other than a gun? Hands and feet ... learn and become skilled in the martial arts. I said martial not marital.

beatrice 4 years, 10 months ago

Scenario four: A 3 year old finds his father's gun, then shoots himself in the head and is hospitalized in critical condition. http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/2010/02/06/20100206queencreek-shooting-boy.html

Scenario five: An 8 year old is given a rifle by his father, upon the approval of the family's priest. The boy later uses the rifle to kill his father and a family friend, because he didn't want to get spanked any more. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/08/national/main4586103.shtml

Scenario six: A fourteen year old girl is in her back yard talking on the phone. A random bullet fired in the air as "celebatory fire" strikes her in the head, killing her. Changing the law that people who randomly fire guns could only be charged with something more than a misdemeanor is protested by the NRA. The shooter is never caught. http://phoenix.gov/police/shannon_law.html

I'll stick with "no gun" is the best choice.

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

beatrice (Anonymous) says… "I'll stick with “no gun” is the best choice."

That is the best choice for you beatrice, and I will honor that. As I have said before, gun ownership comes with great responsibility, and the examples you give show irresponsibility on the part of those who had or purchased them.

Thank you for your post.

beatrice 4 years, 10 months ago

You will have to force a gun into my cold dead hands!

RoeD, do you believe mandatory training might have prevented the real-life scenarios I posted? I believe it might have. If gun ownership requires great responsibility - and I agree with you there - why shouldn't training be a mandatory part of that responsiblity, as it is for the C&C folks? It seems the proper thing to do, in my (as always) humble opinion.

Mariposa 4 years, 10 months ago

Adults can get all the training they want, but if the weapon gets into the hands of a child, that is a different situation altogether. This has been going on since there have been firearms. All of the shooting deaths today are not because of movies, tv, or video games. If you read about the pioneers traveling down the Oregon Trail you will read about the deaths of children who were walking next to the wagon when the wagon hit a bump and the weapon carried on the lap of a parent went off. There are small graves the length of the Trail. This is just one example. No one seems to have responded to the original premise. I don't know what I would do. My greatest fear is that someone will panic and shoot anyone regardless if they are a true threat or not.

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

bea, have you read this article?

I have met Patricia Stoneking, taken a class instructed by her, know her to be an intelligent, dedicated individual. Believe it or not, I do not agree with her 100% either.

Still appreciate your (humble) opinion, though.

beatrice 4 years, 10 months ago

RoeD, yes I did see that article. She doesn't believe in any restrictions on guns. (What about bazookas?) Yes, hers is a dangerous stand to take.

Mariposa, don't you believe training, which should include training on proper storage of a weapon, could help in modern-day prevention of children accidentally getting their hands on a family member's gun? You are right that often times gun owners panic and shoot someone other than a bad guy.

Boston_Corbett 4 years, 10 months ago

RI: In Lawrence isn't that a billiard ball in a Crown Royal bag?

rcrum 4 years, 10 months ago

Hey Roe, it's been a while! I've been thinking of taking the concealed-carry class. I really like the Micro Eagles, what you think of them?

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

Hi rcrum, LTNS! Knowing you are a fan of the Desert Eagle and related models I would say if you have one or intend to get one, practice with it often to insure your ability to fire it accurately and to determine it's dependability.

rcrum 4 years, 10 months ago

any recommendations on a gun range in our neck of the woods? I was thinking of going to tri-county. I heard there was one opening near you, does that sound right?

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

That one may never happen, too many people fighting the entire development. It's a bit far, but the Bullet Hole is well set up and indoors. You could probably get details online.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 4 years, 10 months ago

The best concealed carry weapon adds no weight to your person.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 10 months ago

My alternate carry piece is a Colt Commander in .38 Super. IIRC, I paid about $150 for it brand new in 1973.

jumpin_catfish 4 years, 10 months ago

My fear is that a bad guy will not be stopped because nobody was not there trained and ready to stop the bad guy. So many people were afraid a wild west mentality would take over with concealed carry but its clear that has not been the case.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years, 10 months ago

The best is the one that works best for you.

I've carried a H&K USP Compact .45 and I currently carry a Kimber Compact CDP II. I may, however, switch to a FN FNP .45 if I can conceal it effectively.

JimMacklin 4 years, 10 months ago

The first choice of a weapon is information and good judgment. Avoidance of danger and being aware of impendding danger is a skill that is learned. It is also taught at concealed carry classes by instructors. If the question is what handgun is best, the answer depends on the person and their skill level and needs. Small guns are easy to conceal and hard to shoot well. Small powerful guns are even harder to shoot well. Bigger guns are easier to shoot but harder to conceal. There is no one size fits all. Whether you select a .22, a .25, a 9 mm or a .45, the gun you select requires training and practice. You also need training and practice in when to run, when to hide and when to draw and fire, again, there is no one action fits all. We are not police, vigilantes or cowboys. We are just citizens who choose the option of being able to live.

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

Probably would have some difficulty carrying concealed anyway...

right nudist?

denak 4 years, 10 months ago

Re: The third scenario.

Just curious as to what you think a person would be liable for in civil court. There is no duty to retreat in the state of Kansas so I fail to see what the family would sue the homeowner for in civil court.

Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. I just think the third scenario is one that would not happen often, if at all, in the state of Kansas.

Dena

Charlie Bannister 4 years, 10 months ago

Got to agree with you "did-I-say-that." Glock is the finest combat handgun in the world. Simple to operate and very few moving parts to malfunction. Hence very few jams. I have fired thousands of rounds through various Glock models and never experienced even one malfunction. Currently own the Model 21 .45 caliber and the Model 36 .45 caliber. Carry the 36 for concealment all the time. Love it!!

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

Dena, Just as OJ Simpson was found guilty in civil court after found not not guilty of criminal charges, mostly due to the differences in allowable evidence in the two courts, many times the family of the person shot while committing a crime will seek restitution from the victim of his crime.

JimMacklin, The original idea behind this blog is as you say, knowing what the appropriate action is to take and being able to decide that in milliseconds. No easy task even for trained professionals. I intend to do a series of blogs on CCW, with 'fight or flight' being the topic of one. There is a third option I think comes into play which is 'freezing in fear', all too common when people find themselves in a situation they never dreamed could happen. Appreciate your input, anything you would like to add is welcome.

Kontum1972 4 years, 10 months ago

GE mini-gun, laser sighting/nightvision..its cool...bought it at "Guns R Us"

gphawk89 4 years, 10 months ago

Remington 870, 12ga, 20" barrel, extended mag, with a sling. But it's kind of heavy. And the trench coat can get pretty hot in the summer.

Seriously, though, a Kimber Compact .45.

beatrice 4 years, 10 months ago

Thing, people are far more likely to get wounded or killed in a home where the owner keeps guns than in one that does not. That is a simple fact. I am in no way a victim, I can assure you. See my scenarios four and five above if you have any questions.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 10 months ago

Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.

CareerCopper 4 years, 10 months ago

beatrice You said, ". . . people are far more likely to get wounded or killed in a home where the owner keeps guns than in one that does not. That is a simple fact." I say, "Says who?" If you are going to quote some source as "fact," let us see and evaluate the source. I think you know that the "fact" you are presenting has been widely discredited.

If you think it is OK to just announce "facts" without offering anything to back them up, I offer this "fact," Owning guns gives you whiter teeth and fresher breath!

CareerCopper 4 years, 10 months ago

snap_pop_no_crackle "Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range."

"Hey, just what you see pal."

CareerCopper 4 years, 10 months ago

75x55 Why are "some" bagging on those who bag on beatrice? As you say, it IS a free country. Who gets to decide who posts on this blog? You?

I agree with you that there is no requirement that anyone agrees with anyone, here or anywhere else. But if one choses to post their opinion (or "facts") online, one should expect, and be open to, a civil response.

AnnaUndercover 4 years, 10 months ago

Genuine answer: My shoes at work.

Prompt me to defend myself at your own peril.

Beelzebub 4 years, 10 months ago

Is there really a need to carry a handgun for personal protection in Kansas? I've always felt pretty safe here, but then I've only lived in Kansas for 17 years. Before this I lived in Atlanta and Boston, where every day my jobs took me into downtown areas where I don't think a lot of folks around here would feel very comfortable. I've owned a number of pistols, revolvers, shotguns and rifles, and I read "American Rifleman" and "Guns & Ammo" for years. I served in the military, and was Honorably Discharged. I mention these things just so I don't get accused of being un-American when I say I think it's silly to carry a concealed weapon around here. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I was never armed when I went to and from work in those big bad east coast cities. A little street smarts, knowing what places to avoid, how you carry yourself, etc., will keep you out of more trouble than packing the old 1911 around. The places where you really do need a handgun, you probably shouldn't be. Just my .02$ opinion...

puddleglum 4 years, 10 months ago

snap_pop_no_crackle “Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.”

“Hey, just what you see pal.”

"so, which one will it be?"

puddleglum 4 years, 10 months ago

I carry a colt combat commander most often.

I just got my hands on the fn 5.7 and with a 30-rd capacity, should be entertaining

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

Beelzebub, As I stated in my previous blog, after taking the class I chose not to apply for a CCW permit. I may in the future, but that is still undecided. Most holders I have heard from do not carry full time, but like having the option if they feel it is necessary. I also believe if you don't know when you might need it, leaving it at home could be a mistake. With your military background, even if you have never seen combat, you most likely have seen much tougher environments than Kansas. At least it is an option we can use based on our own experiences.

Thank you for your military service and your input here.

CareerCopper 4 years, 10 months ago

I agree with all who say that there is normally very little "need" to own or carry firearms, and thank heaven for that. We do live in a wonderful place, where people are generally respectful of each other (to some degree) and generally don't prey upon each other.

Having said that, I will note that crime statistics show that there IS an element of our society (and any society) that DOES prey upon and victimize others. Statistically the odds are low that any one of us individually will be a victim of violent crime. But that is cold comfort to the few who find out they THEY have become the victims.

Plane crashes are also rare, but people die in them every year. The difference is that common citizens have a Constitutionally guaranteed option to defend themselves if they choose. Plane passengers must simply play the odds and hope that others do a good job of protecting them from the risks.

If citizens choose not to use firearms to defend themselves, they too can rely upon others to protect them from the risks in life. Many are comfortable with that choice.

Just remember the old quote that, "When seconds count, police are just minutes away."

puddleglum 4 years, 10 months ago

"looks like I might close up early today"

"hey, you can't do that in here"

Beelzebub 4 years, 10 months ago

Thanks for your comments, Roe and CareerCopper. A question: I understand that people can defend themselves in their own home against some perp who breaks in, and in this situation the homeowner would probably not be charged if they had a reasonable expectation that their lives were being endangered by the intruder. Correct? But what if I come across someone out in public who is committing some type of aggravated assault against someone else, or against me? Can a citizen with a CC permit just start blasting away if they walk in on a convenience store robbery? I don't think so. The CC permit doesn't give citizens police authority. What if someone tries to hijack my car at gunpoint and I manage to shoot him first? I'm curious how the law handles these kind of situations. I may have a reasonable fear for my life, but does having a CC permit allow me to start playing Dirty Harry out in public?

BTW: For home defense a Remington 1100, for CC, a compact Glock in .40 S&W or 10mm.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 10 months ago

"...playing Dirty Harry" and defending your life are two separate things, IMHO. In Texas, if you shoot somebody threatening you with a firearm, you'll most likely walk. In the People's Republic of Chicago, you're probably in a lot of trouble.

Beelzebub 4 years, 10 months ago

Okay, the "Dirty Harry" reference was over the top. But I think that if you defend your life against an armed assailant in public, by shooting them first, you better have a lot of witnesses on your side, that better have been a real, loaded gun he was pointing at you, you better have a lot of $$ for a good criminal lawyer, and you better be a damn good shot.

CareerCopper 4 years, 10 months ago

Beelzebub Your questions show an appropriate appreciation of the magnitude of the decision to employ deadly force. And don't be confused. Waving a gun around is one millisecond away from employing deadly force.

There is, unfortunately, no easy answer to the questions you are asking. Every state has different laws, as does every city. Some federal laws may apply to those situations as well. The decision to pick up a firearm is inevitably the decision to be held accountable to ALL applicable laws, whether you like it or not.

It is usually clearer in one's own home. Using a firearm to defend "you and yours" from a threatening intruder is an easier sell in court.

The choice to insert yourself into other's conflicts multiplies your exposure to civil and criminal liability exponentially. I'm not saying not to do it, that decision must always be personal. The world is a better place because good people stand up to bad people. But I AM saying that by taking action you are accepting ALL of the associated scrutiny and consequences, and you had better be well educated at that moment.

beatrice is exactly on point on this topic, that education and training are vital if people are to make good decisions about the application of deadly force. The debate rages about what training is appropriate and how it should be acquired, but the knowledge itself is certainly necessary.

I realize that I didn't answer your questions. You'll have to research your local laws and find those answers for yourself. But I would offer one other insight. Not shooting someone when you should have, will change (or end) your life. But shooting someone, even the right someone under the right circumstances, will change your life as well. The movie stuff of blasting a bunch of bad guys and then blowing the smoke off the end of the barrel is BS. It's best to go through life without gun fighting if you can.

puddleglum 4 years, 10 months ago

at home: ak-47 (of course) or the marine-mossberg 590 laser/flash combo

carry? combat commander & mauser 1896 broomhandle (hey, it worked for bubba zanetti)

favorite line? all time best: "who's the fella owns this sh*thole?"

beatrice 4 years, 10 months ago

Hey there CC, nice catch on the "facts" (and great, shiny smile you have, I might add).

Here is a relatively recent study on the issue of homes with guns having a greater number of gun deaths. http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/160/10/929

This is just one study. I'm sure there are others. If you have a study showing that homes without guns actually have a greater number of gun deaths and gun accidents in them, please share. However, I truly don't see how that would be remotely possible. (I'm also quite sure there will be more deaths and accidents by chainsaw in homes with chainsaws, as well.)

Yes, there are home invasions that do end in shooting deaths in homes without guns (in homes with guns sometimes, too), but otherwise I don't think those numbers will even come close to those accidents and deaths in homes where guns are kept.

Now, as far as the line "If citizens choose not to use firearms to defend themselves, they too can rely upon others to protect them from the risks in life."

Beg your pardon? "the risks in life"? Really?

Outside of standard law enforcement, I am not asking anyone to protect me should such a need arise. Again, I am no victim, nor am I incapable of defending myself just because I don't have a gun. (People trip and hit their heads and die all the time -- is everyone who goes around not wearing a helmet at all times a victim for not protecting themselves?)

Now, should someone choose to own a gun to defend their home and they shoot their teenage son who was trying to be quiet sneaking back into the house after a night out partying, or when their 3 year old child finds the gun and shoots himself in the head (a very recent case that I cited above), then all I can say is that the responsible adults didn't listen to those of us who speak out against keeping guns in the home, which would have saved their family. (And by the way, what good is a gun kept locked up in a safe when you only have a couple of seconds?) They did the exact opposite of protecting their family by having a gun in their home. If they had listened to those like me, they wouldn't be victims right now, and they wouldn't be sitting in the hospital today to see if their child can possibly survive. It is horribly sad, but it is real life.

Those are the types of gun accidents and deaths I am far more concerned about. much more than just the extremely remote possibility of being killed myself on the very rare instance that someone might break into my home and I found myself unable to protect myself using means other than just keeping a gun nearby.

Again, I am not advocating here for you not to have that right to keep a gun in your home if you so choose. I am just saying I find it to be the wrong choice if protecting the family is your ultimate goal.

Beelzebub 4 years, 10 months ago

Thanks again Career. As a law-enforcement type you know the real implications of using deadly force, and I appreciate and respect your opinion. I don't plan to carry a handgun because I don't feel threatened with gun violence here. In Lawrence I'm more likely to get hit by a drunk-driving college student. When I worked in Boston and Atlanta I observed that most of the street people were just looking for someone to hustle, or something to steal. Keep your head up and ignore them and they'll leave you alone. New Orleans is an exception. I spent some time in NOLA in the early 80s, and people do get randomly shot there. If I lived in the Big Sleazy I'd probably carry. I guess I've worked and travelled in some rough places, so Lawrence feels pretty safe to me.

I agree absolutely with your comments about TV. TV and movies glamorize gun violence, and result in a lot of guys walking around with shoot-'em-up fantasies in their heads. I've heard too many guys at work discussing their home-defense and personal defense strategies, and it sounds to me like they think they want to shoot someone, only legally.

Beelzebub 4 years, 10 months ago

Both of my father's parents were in law-enforcement, back in the 30s, 40s, and 50s, in Florida. My grandfather was a sheriff's deputy and ran the jail in Marion County, Florida in the early 30s; my grandmother was a dispatcher for the Ocala Police Department. Both were avid deer hunters. As a kid growing up my Dad heard real stories about people getting shot, accidentally and deliberately. When I was a kid I wanted a gun in the worst way, and my Dad wouldn't let me have one. "What a sissy my Dad is," I thought. When I was of age I bought, sold, traded, and shot a whole lotta different guns. (From my grandad I inherited a very worn blackjack, two switchblade knives, and a "belly gun" which turned out to be the first model swing-out .32 S&W revolver.) After about 10 years I'd had enough of guns, and I sold them all. And now that my dad is gone, and I'm the age he was when I wanted guns, I know why he wouldn't let me have one. He heard all those stories growing up, and he knew that a gun is a serious thing, and you shouldn't have one unless you need one.

Beelzebub 4 years, 10 months ago

I'm talking about personal responsibility. I'm not against gun-ownership at all. However you interpret the 2nd Amendment, America is a gun-owning culture and we'll always have them. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the Hollywood and TV bulls__t that glamorizes gun violence.

labmonkey 4 years, 10 months ago

Doesn't Chuck Norris need a concealed carry license to wear gloves and shoes?

somedude20 4 years, 10 months ago

infidel (Anonymous) says… "For the naysayers that say it is not big enough to stop anything, perhaps you could ask George Tiller what he thinks about a 22"

This has to be in the running for the most ignorant a-hole statement of the week and could be a contender for the month. Congratulations!!

Ronda Miller 4 years, 10 months ago

Roe, I've admired your writing and common sense approach for quite some time now, but you've out done yourself with this blog. Wonderful topic and insight.

I agree with Bea, and I am a gun lover and have owned them in the past. Homes that do not have guns in them do not have gun accidents.

We have an exceptionally high rate of suicide and I've known three people in my lifetime who have used firearms to kill themselves. Two of them were 25 year old females, one of whom was my mother and the other my niece. The third was a sixteen year old boy who'd gone mail box bashing the evening before. Can people always find a way to kill themselves or another if they so desire? Absolutely the answe is yes. But they also most likely have ( excuse the expression) a better shot at survival or being found in time if guns aren't method of choice.

Guns kill too many by accident and impulse and lack of training and common sense. There are numerous safer ways to protect yourself in your own home. Use your guns for pleasure sports and/or hunting.

And when do I get to shoot your weapon, Roe? It's been a couple of years for me.

countrygirl 4 years, 10 months ago

Home defense, either my 12 gauge Benelli or the hubby's 12 gauge Beretta. I just don't go places where I feel like I should be carrying a hand gun for protection.

beatrice 4 years, 10 months ago

Ronda, it sounds like you know far more than most about the horrors of suicide. I'm terribly sorry. On one of RoeD's other blog entries I included information on the study of suicides and how, with the removal of the instrument of possible suicide, the lower the suicide rate. In other words, people rarely go to the next viable option, which I found surprising. I re-post it for those who might find it of interest. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/magazine/06suicide-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print

I like your advice: "There are numerous safer ways to protect yourself in your own home. Use your guns for pleasure sports and/or hunting."

DillonBarnes 4 years, 10 months ago

So glad I signed onto ljworld today!

First, CCH application has been turned in and should be approved mid-March.

Second, Glock 19 with Remington 124grain Golden Saver (HPJ) Hollowpoint.

Third, Lawrence is a safe place, but a lot of people who have been attacked felt very safe too. "I never thought it would happen here"

Fourth, off the top of my head I believe Kansas laws allow CCH holders to use their firearm to protect themselves and those around them. However you have to be very very careful with this. Another scenario my CCH class teacher told us: A man was walk down the street and sees a old lady lying in alley with a man standing over her, the two appeared to be in a serious scuffle. Seems like a pretty easy decision to assist the woman, do you shoot the man over her? In this situation I believe the woman fainted or passed out and the man rushed over to try and assist her, when she woke up she believed she was being attacked and pulled a knife on the man.

Fifth, the .22 caliber can be a deadly weapon, preferred weapon of mob assassins. That doesn't make it a good defense round. George Tiller wasn't attacking the alleged shooter (being totally PC here), and that is important. The .22 is very ineffective for stopping someone coming at you. It's better than nothing, but if you are able to carry a higher caliber, it's for the best.

Finally Sixth, for any students out there who may be interested. http://www.concealedcampus.org/

denak 4 years, 10 months ago

Roe,

I understand the difference between civil and criminal court. However, in your scenario, I fail to see what the family of the "victim" would sue for. The person has the right to defend his or her home. The perp had a deadly weapon as defined by law. He was trespassing and in the process of committing a burglary. The family of the perp can not sue because the homeowner had every right to shoot him. Now, if there is some arcane law that says that the family can sue for "loss of income" or something, I would love to see it but legally, I don't think your particular scenario holds up. Not to mention, that I don't think anyone's co-workers would call a homeowner a killer because he killed an invader.

And now that I think about it, who would they call as a witness? The accomplice. I don't think that would happen.

Any lawyers, law enforcement, paralegals, law students want to weigh in???

Dena:)

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

Hi again Dena! I did say in the third scenario that the fictitious homeowner eventually got a ruling in his favor. As far as how it would be handled in a Kansas court, maybe you are correct, but there is no shortage of attorneys who might accept fees for trying. Not slamming attorneys, at least not all of them. I too would like to see an attorney comment on this.

Ronda, now your making me blush! Thanks for the compliment, and yes we should go shooting some time. Wish beatrice would come to Kansas and join us, it would be fun to teach her to shoot, even if she never did it again! Does it look like hell might freeze over any time soon?

I too have lost friends to gun related suicides. Not immediate family, but one young man who I met for the first time when his dad brought him home from the hospital, three days old. Twenty seven years later he sat in his vehicle, drinking the courage it would take to do himself in. Found the next morning slumped over the wheel. I always felt like an uncle to him, or as close as could be without sharing blood lines. I still have a hard time thinking about it, and his father grieved until the day he passed away. Never once did his father blame the gun, he always said his son was so determined to do this he would have found a way. Statistics may speak for the general population, but not the individual. That's how I will always see it, and will agree to disagree, without malice.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 10 months ago

When practical, stick with handgun calibers that start with a "4".

TopJayhawk 4 years, 10 months ago

Bea. Your concerns are legitamate. It is important however to remember that the statistics of child mortality are a bit skewed. The statistic takes into account all suicides, gang violence, and family violence as well. While an avoidable tragedy. Accidental child death from guns is really a small portion of the quoted statistics. For Concealed carry, I prefer a Smith and Wesson .38 special snubbie. With the nickle plating, although a vintage 1968 model it is strong enough for +P rounds, and with a good bullet, say 125 gr. semi-jacketed hollow point, it has almost as much bite as a .357. Much stronger than a .380 For Home defense, I like a .44 special, better one shot kill ratio for humans thatn a .44 magnum. I like big and slow bulletts for in town shooting to cut down on the chance of collateral damage. For home OFFENSE, I prefer the good ol' .45 ACP. Although designed in 1911, it has proven to still be the best human defense round.

TopJayhawk 4 years, 10 months ago

A great place to shoot is Capitol City Gun Club just west of Topeka. I have been going there for yrs. Reasonable annual membership nice facitities. But no indoor range. It has been in existance for 60 yrs. Only one injury in all that time. That was a death. Police are sure the Husband intentionally killed his wife, but could not prove it.
They are very strict with safety rules. You must belong to the NRA to join.

DillonBarnes 4 years, 10 months ago

I forgot to mention I do most of my shooting at Kaw Valley Gun Club (kvgc.com) in North Topeka. They have an indoor range, seven lanes if memory serves me correct but I've never had trouble finding room. I'm sure you can find newer ranges but it gets the job done for me.

I've never been to tri-county, I haven't seen much information on them but I know they're rather close to me. Does anyone know anything about this range?

beatrice 4 years, 10 months ago

jarhead: "So this means that your physician is .14 / .00000642 = 14,681 times more likely to harm you than a law abiding gun owner right Beatrice? Lets ban doctors then!"

Doctors have another purpose. If a doctor kills, s/he is doing the opposite of intended. If a gun kills someone, it is doing what it was designed to do. See the difference?

Same with the car accidents you mention. A car isn't intended to crash, but to transport people from one place to another. If the intent was to crash, then I would support your ban on cars. We do "ban" drinking and driving, although some people stupidly decide to ignore such a ban. That is the person making the foolish decision in the wrong, not the automobile.

However, I wonder why you bring up the word "ban"? I did not say "ban guns," so why the comparison to "ban doctors" or banning cars? I'm just pointing out some things and explaining why I choose not to own a gun.

Topjay, I understand that the child deaths by guns are a small number of the total, but to the family in which such a thing happens, just one death is a huge number. (Same, of course, for kids who fall off bunk beds or pull a chest of drawers on top of themselves. Life itself is dangerous.) It is just part of why I don't want a gun in my home.

RoeD, who ever said I don't know how to shoot or have never done so?

RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

My mistake bea! If you are ever in the area give me a shout, maybe you could show me up at the range!

Alexander Neighbors 4 years, 10 months ago

most powerful weapon is the Sony Digital HD 1080p night vision WiFi enabled camcorder.

BrianR 4 years, 10 months ago

That is why you should never point a doctor at someone unless you intend to heal them.

kansasmutt 4 years, 10 months ago

The Jugde, By Taurus, for the road. At home a 1911 45 acp works great. 870 Remington with 3B as backup.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 10 months ago

I couldn't agree more with you, Bea. We usually are on opposite sides of the fence, but we're sitting together on this one.

Roe, your gun, your target ( no, I didn't say you were the target!) so your timeline. I'll chip in for ammo though or am I bringing squirrels in a bag? Just kiddin folks!

puddleglum 4 years, 10 months ago

kaw valley gun club is an awesome place to shoot. i highly recommend it.

the .22 can be an extremely effective round at close range. especially if the person is coming at you. it is perfect for protection. all you do is conceal the weapon as much as possible, let the attacker grab you, then bring up and fire pistol directly into attacker's earhole.

most effective-and unlike a .45; you won't be covered in chips of skull and various other brain goo. not to mention, blood can really stain your zebra pattern jacket.

beatrice 4 years, 10 months ago

Ronda, I thought it was appropriate to bring fish in a barrell. I'd never heard the expression of shooting squirrels in a bag before, but I guess that would work, too.

Just make them robotic squirrels.

DillonBarnes 4 years, 10 months ago

"all you do is conceal the weapon as much as possible, let the attacker grab you, then bring up and fire pistol directly into attacker's earhole."

Just make sure all the criminals get the memo to just grab, and not to grab the arm used for shooting. Then it'll work great. To many risk factors like that the attacker will do more than grab you, or grab you in an inconvenient place, and in the heat of the moment, good luck getting the pistol pointed right into his ear. You've been watching too many movies if you think this is an effective self defense plan.

puddleglum 4 years, 10 months ago

dillonBarnes: "To many risk factors like that the attacker will do more than grab you, or grab you in an inconvenient place, and in the heat of the moment, good luck getting the pistol pointed right into his ear. You've been watching too many movies if you think this is an effective self defense plan."

actually, it works great. just ask the people I have trained. try it sometime (without a real weapon for christ's sake) with a buddy, it could save your life. and please, don't watch those movies-seldom is more than one shot ever fired in an altercation.

thanks for playing

DillonBarnes 4 years, 10 months ago

@puddleglum

I suppose I should have worded my response somewhat differently. It's not something I would advise unless you are highly trained and practice regularly. I don't know you or your background so I shouldn't have worded it as I did. My apologies.

Personally, I don't feel comfortable allowing an attacker to make physical contact. If I have made the decision to shoot, I would like to do it before he lays a hand on me. That is how I train and have trained for use of my firearm.

I do believe we can both agree that movies are rarely anything but bad information and glorification of shooting someone.

puddleglum 4 years, 10 months ago

dillonbarnes

yes we can agree to that.

some think that holding a ruger p89 sideways and firing the whole clip whilst jumping through the window of a saloon is the best 'shot' at marksmanship.

is does work well in the movies.

I know it is very hard to get comfortable with the idea of letting someone actually grab you-before you defend yourself. It isn't natural. actually, if you remember the movie star wars-return of the jedi, the part where luke is in the 'arena' with the rancor monster....the rancor kinda grabs at him, and he (really poor acting btw) kinda rolls into the rancor's hand? that is the technique best executed. keep the attacker at 180 degrees to your side arm and no matter what, the attacker cannot see or grasp your .22 it's not for everybody, but works well for undersized or injured users. it will be the last thing they expect. literally.

puddleglum 4 years, 10 months ago

ha! how funny, I just used a movie to illustrate a move.

how ironic.

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