LJWorld.com weblogs Yes, I did say that!
Posted
by DIST
June 17, 2010 at 4:44 p.m.
Extreme Politics - The Radical Right and Loony Left
Radical right, loony left. Right winger, left winger. Right wing extremist, left wing extremist. Nazi, zealot, American terrorist, American taliban, Un-American, traitor, and even snolly-gusters. Snolly-gusters? Yes, according to journalist Bob Schieffer, Harry Truman referred to Republicans as "a bunch of snolly-gusters". Mudslinging and name calling is as old as politics. Can anything be done to lesson some of the rhetoric?
Let's begin with a definition of extreme. I like Merriam-Webster for definitions:
Extreme - 1 b: going to great or exaggerated lengths; 3: situated at the farthest possible point from a center.
Thus, an extreme position is the one that is furthest from the center, norm, median, or average. An extremist is the person who takes, or occupies, that position. By definition, no political party can fully occupy the extreme position; it can only be occupied by a select group that have exaggerated ideals.
First, a review of what the political spectrum is would be in order.
Due to the well established two-party political system, many in the United States see political positions as a point on a line:
Political_line2.png
Unfortunately, it is this view that leads to much of the name calling in politics. This limited view forces far more people into two categories, thus increasing the number of people that must appear to be extremists.
One solution is to recognize that political positions actually tend to fall more accurately in to one of four political camps; a centrist, or moderate, could be considered a subset of any or all of these:
With the realization that the political continuum is not a straight line, or even a circle, but rather a multidimensional continuum, comes the understanding that not as many individuals can be extremists.
Here is an illustration, using 25 dots (political viewpoints) per quadrant (placed with no representative meaning):
Pol_view_quad_.png
Here, the 100 viewpoints are on one straight line:
Pol_view_line.png
This congestion of view points creates an erroneous perception that there are many extremists; when, in fact, the amount of extremists is rather limited. This is due, in part, to the fact that we like to place everything into segments. When you look at the last fourth of each line (imaginary or real) on both charts you will notice that the "extremists" in the four separated camps total 12; while those forced onto the straight-line easily double that number. Perception can appear to be reality.
What is it that places a person, by perception if not in reality, in the far extremes of the political spectrum? I believe there are two causes: Single-issue politics and Convictions. Exasperating this is the fact that the second usually drives the first.
Conviction refers to the depth of belief that someone has regarding an issue. Some have said that a conviction is that which you are willing to die for to uphold. For example, many men and women of our country have demonstrated their conviction in the belief of freedom by making the ultimate sacrifice defending the United States. Another example of a right (conviction) to die for is seen in the mis-attributed quote of Voltaire, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Convictions can lead people to concentrate only on one area of politics. Current political examples of high profile single-issues include: abortions, guns, and health care. Social Security, energy, environment, and economical interests are sometimes benefactors of single-issue politics. Single-issue politics can also include special interests such as farm subsidy, finance, or transportation. Regardless of the issue, it can skew the political horizon.
A single-issue voter that is driven by conviction may tend to espouse their views from an emotional, rather than an intellectual, position. Those driven by emotion sometimes vacate their intellectual arguments and appear to be an extremist decrying a heartfelt, yet oft misguided, position. Knowing the reason that many veer into emotional arguments should result in an opponent being less aggressive for two reasons. First, tolerance and compassion should come into play. Second, their is no logical argument that can overcome an emotional argument.
Finally, extreme politics would seem less extreme if those claiming to be tolerant - were tolerant. And, if those claiming to be compassionately conservative - were compassionate and conservative.
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Comments
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LadyJ (anonymous) says…
I would love to see the results if lawrenceguy40 took the test.
RalphReed (Ralph Reed) says…
Interesting post. I scored out as a Centrist (surprised?).
I do have some issues with the quiz. I find it hard to believe that it can classify you based on just 12 questions. There should be more, with a couple having the same question worded differently to verify your responses. Also, the scale should be 5-point, not just 3. The way it is right now, some are going to take it as Gospel, not just the interesting diversion it is.
I'd like to see Tom take the quiz.
@Did_I_say_that: Did you write all this? If so, nice job. If not, what's your source?
Did_I_say_that (DIST) replies…
Thank you. Most of it is my own ramblings. The limited sources are the four hyperlinks (including the test). The test is available through a few other links; with some variation on the questions. My answers put me in the same area on each test.
grammaddy (anonymous) replies…
And Barrypenders also.
consumer1 (anonymous) says…
Nicely Done! Did I say that. I have always believed myself to be a centrist, but will take the test.
Did_I_say_that (DIST) replies…
Thank you. My test results were not surprising; however it did place me further into one camp than I expected.
grammaddy (anonymous) says…
I always thought I was a proud card carrying member of the far looney left.Turns out I'm more centrist than I thought.How far left is Looney then?
Did_I_say_that (DIST) replies…
"How far left is Looney then?"
I think it is a matter of perception. A centrist might see someone on the far left edge (5 grids) as "loony left"; however, a conservative that is "radical right" (5 grids to the right) might see those just to the left of centrist as "loony left". And, vice-versa.
jaywalker (anonymous) replies…
Well, gramm, I detest labels like "looney left", but my guess would be the emotional element might play further when you're on these strings than in the face of specific questions. And I don't think that's surprising when faced with some of the postings, for either "side."
RoeDapple (anonymous) says…
I ended up borderline Centrist/Libertarian leaning slightly to the right. . . .
I'm so confused . . .
;-)
puddleglum (anonymous) replies…
we must have the same exact answers-cuz that's what I ended up with
scopi_guy (anonymous) says…
I'm a pretty non-political person so was good to take the test to see where I came out (if I had to say, I'd call myself a Conservative...sort of). Came out Centrist on the test.
jaywalker (anonymous) says…
Excellent blog, Did_I! Enjoyed reading it thoroughly, thanks. I scored out as Libertarian but had a pretty good idea I would beforehand.
Honestly, well written, thoughtful, and thought-provoking. Gimme more!
Did_I_say_that (DIST) replies…
Thank you. You are too kind.
1029 (anonymous) says…
Funny that this test puts me on the line between conservative and liberarian, yet I don't even read books (and I don't think the library should get that 18 million, either, btw). I'm definitely a conservative, though.
autie (anonymous) says…
Me and all my cousins...we's right there on the left side a center and a little below the equator...Just some dumb ass country boys what lives and lets lives.....right up unto the time we gots to shoot it. I never figure me to be a looney left...but left none the less...not like my view of some of them right thinking boys who be Aaalllllll the way over on the right side.
living and let living and country boys live unprecedented,
Dewars bless us all
RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Ronaldo Ignacio) says…
3%
lllwll (anonymous) says…
Like the rest of the comments, I will not reveal the true catergory but that I scored in
Most of the above,
verity (anonymous) says…
Well-written and reasoned blog. Thank you. I especially like the comment---there is no logical argument that can overcome an emotional argument. We often tend to overlook or forget that. I would add that trying to argue logically only makes the person more determined in their emotional belief.
However, like many such things, the test is a bust. Too much generalization and black and whiteness. Most people (other than the extremes) have nuanced views of things and there is no room for that. Certainly no room for a pragmatist.
DougCounty (anonymous) says…
Instead of a 4 walled room with a central dance floor, my sense is that the political "spectrum" is more circular: the extreme left and the extreme right start to converge to the point that they are virtually identical. Don't believe it? Compare the John Birch Society's Blue Book and the SDS manual from my younger days, and you could probably switch book covers and pass them off to the true believers of the other camp.
Might be harder to do that with Libertarians and Statists, but I actually believe that both abhor totalitarianism and the more extreme elements probably have quite a bit in common.
independant1 (anonymous) says…
raw score 21 in all 4 catagories
don't fence me in
beatrice (anonymous) says…
So, apparently I'm a Liberal. Well, that finally explains a few things.
Okay, I didn't land in the extremist category and edged more toward Libertarian than Statist. Interesting and fun. I'm not the least bit surprised. Thanks DIST.
independant1 (anonymous) replies…
i'm coming out.
dyed in the wool libertarian, on cusp of extreme, smidge to left, scorpio, half gainer with full twist, queen of cups on top, with one hand tied behind my back
i'm so embarassed
camper (anonymous) says…
Interesting blog and analysis. Thanks for posting. I was further from the center than I expected. I wonder where I would have charted if you had a range of responses from 1-10 (ie 1 strongly disagree.... 10 strongly agree).
I remember from a logic textbook that "always" and "never" statements often indicated a false or bad argument.
Did_I_say_that (DIST) replies…
"I remember from a logic textbook that "always" and "never" statements often indicated a false or bad argument."
The politically extreme among us could, most likely, could provide ample evidence to support that statement.
tange (anonymous) says…
For many of the spouting commenters who frequent the LJW forums, the political "continuum" amounts to a mirror transitioning to some gharish color off in the remote distance.
The "political camp" board game would be more compelling if it were a sphere navigable in real time with a Wii joystick.
(Hmm... on the other hand, maybe all that is required by the spewing "conservative" commenters on board is a rock... palm sized.)
tange (anonymous) replies…
( yes, gharish with an "h" )
cait48 (anonymous) says…
The only thing I disagree with in your title is that often it's not "radical right", it's "radical, religious right". Christ had nothing to do with money, business or politics. He drove the merchants and money lenders from the temple and said the famous "Render unto Caesar.." line. As for politics, think of his conversation with Pontius Pilate. Politics is what got Him killed.
I see nothing Christlike in "prosperity gospel". I see nothing "Christlike" in theocrats who want to run this country by the Old Testament and ignore the New, willing to grind the poor, aged and infirm under their heel for the sake of money and Levitican Law. It was to free us from that Law that Christ died. Yet how many use that Law to justify their actions and hatreds? Does anyone truly believe that He took care of the poor and the aged out of "religious duty"? He did it because * no one* else was doing it and he saw all people; young, old, rich, poor deserving of respect and a relationship with God unhindered by the priests and the Law. It was the "New Covenant". This was a radical concept for it's time. Apparently it's just as radical now.
OK, my Sunday sermon (one day early) is over. And hey! I didn't even go over 30 minutes!
verity (anonymous) replies…
I love a good rant---
I would disagree, though, that it's the "radical, religious right." Yes, many of the radical right are religious (at least in name), but often the people behind the movements are just very cynical manipulators who have no values whatsoever other than gaining power and money.
Do you really think that Glenn Beck and the others believe what they say?
tange (anonymous) replies…
So often people cannot see a thing for what it is,
even as it stands, in full display, before them.
cait48 (anonymous) replies…
This makes me think of some of my favorite song lyrics.
Sex and religion are power plays
Manipulate the people for the money they pay
Selling skin, selling God
The numbers look the same on their credit cards.
(Queensrhyce)
BigPrune (anonymous) says…
I think the quiz is bogus. I think everyone scores as a centrist. It didn't matter what answers I picked, I was a centrist always. When I cheated and played the loony leftist, it gave me an error message. Just sayin'
Did_I_say_that (DIST) replies…
You must have opted to use a less expensive rig, BP. I have taken the test using two different computers with no problem. The results change based upon varied answers. Try deleting your history and cookies in your browser and see if you come up with a different result.
BigPrune (anonymous) says…
I think the quiz is bogus. I think everyone scores as a centrist. It didn't matter what answers I picked, I was a centrist always. When I cheated and played the loony leftist, it gave me an error message. Just sayin'
Oroboros (anonymous) says…
There's a movement called Transpartisanship that I like. I have a blog up on their network with some links of interest to this discussion:
http://network.transpartisan.net/prof...
See especially Jonathan Haidt's TED talk:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_hai...
There's a more sophisticated political orientation test that he put online available at http://www.yourmorals.org
Liberty275 (anonymous) says…
Dead center top. Whooda thunk it?
jayhawklawrence (anonymous) says…
How does one know if there is enough information in the model to support optimum reasoning since there are massive leaks at both ends.
If this was a hot air balloon, would there be enough air in it to float to, say, Eudora?
Excellent and interesting. I like it.
puddleglum (anonymous) says…
a very good blog, and fun also.
I am very pretty and I even had fun.
Hydra (Roger Ford) says…
That was fun, left leaning centrist.
Hydra (Roger Ford) says…
That was fun, left leaning centrist.
overplayedhistory (anonymous) says…
Centrist here, these days known as a socialist fascist.
verity (anonymous) replies…
You owe me a new keyboard. It wouldn't be so funny if it wasn't spot on.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Perhaps BigPrune would like to grow a bit of backbone and let others verify his "findings," like valid researchers do.
Prune whines:
"I think everyone scores as a centrist. It didn't matter what answers I picked, I was a centrist always."
So, man up already. What answers did you pick? Let me visit the site on my computer, plug in your answers, and see what happens.
Got the stomach for it?
Kinda doubt it...
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
I'll gladly share my answers here, and my results. My answers are pretty easy to duplicate. Starting from the top, answer the first and third questions with "Agree."
1) Government should not censor speech, press, media, or internet.
Agree.
3) There should be no laws regarding sex for consenting adults.
Agree
Now, mark all the other results as "Maybe"--those are my answers.
Results:
"Your personal issues Score is 70%
"Your economic issues Score is 50%
"According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...
"Centrist"
When you look at the map/grid, the red dot should appear in the very upper left corner of the Centrist square... it also straddles the line between "Left" and "Libertarian."
I really put the screws to the questions, asking myself if I could really cling to, and defend that statement 100% of the time, no matter the current circumstances or situations. I found that answer to be "No" on eight of the statements, so they got the "Maybe" answer.
--Ag