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LJWorld.com weblogs Sharpening My Pen

Wisconsin Democrats in All Out Rebellion

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http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_01c093f0-3ac0-11e0-ba01-001cc4c002e0.html
All Democratic representatives have left the state capitol of Madison (some sources are saying that many have actually left the state) to prevent a quorum from voting on the state budget.
This takes brass. Will be interesting to see if Kansas Dems have as much in the way of ethics and that much courage.

Comments

Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

Ethics & courage? Sounds more like the WI Democrats are throwing a temper tantrum in an attempt to keep their union backers firmly attached to the government's golden teat.

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SinoHawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Yep. In a nutshell. I wonder if Gov. Walker will have them arrested when they come back.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

Wouldn't surprise me, considering that he's threatened to bring out the National Guard against his own constituents (which would actually be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, since martial law hasn't been declared).

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KSWingman 3 years, 7 months ago

The National Guard is under the command and control of the Governor until activated for Federal service. Posse Comatatus does not apply to State duty such as disaster response, riot control, or support to civil authorities within the State.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

I hope those idiots are arrested. Is there a "dereliction of duty" charge for members of the government?

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Ceallach 3 years, 7 months ago

I believe Wisconsin has a law that prohibits lawmakers from being arrested while they are in session.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Just like the bad guy/ In Lethal Weapon 2/ I've got diplomatic immunity...

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

An illegal and damaging tantrum, exactly. Extra-classy that they got bussed out, too.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

Illegal? Do you have sources for that? Texas Dems did the exact same thing in 2003. The Governor sent the Texas Rangers after them. My guess is this is why the WI Dems completely left the state.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Crap. My bad. Mixed this up with the teachers on strike. Sorry about that.

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notajayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Wisconsin's constitution says they can be compelled to appear, which would suggest their absence has something less of a legal foot to stand on.

Also, cait: How'd that work out for those Democrats in Texas, BTW?

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Bob Forer 3 years, 7 months ago

They can't be compelled if they are out of state and thus beyond state process.

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notajayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

"They can't be compelled if they are out of state and thus beyond state process."

Yeah, pretty much the same as if they'd broken any other state law.

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bad_dog 3 years, 7 months ago

except they aren't likely to be extradited for this action...

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ivalueamerica 3 years, 7 months ago

You had a very different interpretation when Texas Republicans did this a couple years back.

That is the perfect example of what is wrong with extremists such as yourself or Merrill,(yes, both sides of the aisle).

You have very few morals, values or standards at all. instead you have sides, if it is your side, it is right, if it their side, it is wrong...even if it is the same thing.

your lack of values creates a vacuum, you offer no substance to the debate, only echos of what you are told to feel by your leaders.

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KSWingman 3 years, 7 months ago

The Texas Eleven were Democrats.

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Blessed4x 3 years, 7 months ago

Ouch! Point, match and game. I guess if you're gonna pull stuff out of your backside, the facts should at least point in your favor.

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bad_dog 3 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, you're right. All the Texas Republicans did was gerrrymander at the direction and whim of now convicted money launderer Tom DeLay.

And I'm sure you'll love the source for this criticism...

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/30/154347.shtml

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mbulicz 3 years, 7 months ago

The alleged $140 million budget shortfall comes after Walker gets into office and signs $140 million in support for the groups that got him elected.

Good on them for refusing to be part of this cronyism. I hope this example spreads and we all start standing up to blatant political bribery.

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

Would it help to confuse the Governor if we ran away more?

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JayCat_67 3 years, 7 months ago

Maybe they could all return in a Trojan Rabbit... Ooops, well maybe a badger.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

Blahblahblah Obama. Blahblahblah unions. Blahblahblah. If I roll my eyes will someone be sure and roll them back to me?

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Seen some of the signs the protestors have, cait? I'm sure they're just "courageous" signs.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

/shrug Tea Party people do it and it's all A-OK.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Incorrect. All those signs you are inferring are inappropriate. You are proving yourself to be an outstanding generalizer.

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johnjhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

I respect the right to peaceful protest but many of the signs being carried are over the top. Comparing the Gov to Hitler and posters showing him in rifle scope cross-hairs are not appropriate in my opinion after the tragedy in Tucson. I also have concerns with teachers calling in sick and then going to the protest when they should be doing their jobs and educating our children. I hope these tasteless statements or the view of a small minority and not shared by most of the protesters It is actions like this that actually turn non government workers against them.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

That's one of the few times I'll agree wholeheartedly with ya, Agno. I'd even offer to buy you a beer, but this (LJW baords) isn't real life, ya know?

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Blessed4x 3 years, 7 months ago

Agreed. This is a pretty classless bunch if the news spots don't lie. Where are all the people that attacked Palin for the crosshairs on her website?

Oh, so now it's acceptable? I see.

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bad_dog 3 years, 7 months ago

Thanks for the "heads up" re your lte, Tom. The bird cage needs to be re-lined, some fish guts to dispose, etc., etc.

Just kidding. I'll read it. Like many of Cal's pieces, I probably won't agree-but I will read it.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Striking is still illegal, no matter how noble the strikers deem their own cause.

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Jan Rolls 3 years, 7 months ago

We got rid of one dictator in Egypt and now we have two more. One in Kansas and one in Wisconsin. Of course you know both are backed by Koch.

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BigPrune 3 years, 7 months ago

obama's blue shirts (read: brown shirts) got something to rally around but i'm sure the vast majority don't even know what they are protesting.

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Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

Has the SEIU been brought in to start busting heads in Madison yet?

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

Brave Sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away, away! When danger reared its ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about And gallantly he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet He beat a very brave retreat, Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

I wonder when they'll be forced to eat the minstrels.

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

I especially liked the tweet from Sen. Chris Larson, "For those looking for us, we are right here, standing with the people of Wisconsin."

In Illinois. Win.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

A strategic retreat is sometimes the best thing. "Marines! We are LEAVING!"

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

"A strategic retreat." I lol'ed.

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

Some may claim discretion is the better part of valor, but there is a reason the two are so seldom confused.

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Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

If you remember the riots in Greece last year over the government trying to get unsustainable social programs under control, the situation in WI should come as no suprise.

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KU_Hunter 3 years, 7 months ago

So we govern now by who can complain the loudest? I thought we just had an election, and the people of Wisconsin voted the Republicans into power. If things don't go our way we hide out in another state instead of voting? If it's so terrible then the next election cycle will fix it, at least that what I thought elections were for.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Basically. Wisconsin: First state in the union to have a 100% Republican legislature!

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

And this is a good thing? Totalitarianism is totalitarianism whether it's by one person or one party.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Funny, I didn't ever use the word "good." Learn2notjumptoconclusions.

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notajayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

"And this is a good thing? Totalitarianism is totalitarianism whether it's by one person or one party."

Gee, then maybe the Democrats shouldn't have run and hid.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Nail, meet nota. He will be hitting you over the head today.

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

And maybe totalitarianism has a different definition altogether.

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Olympics 3 years, 7 months ago

I can't believe that a GOP leader would misrepresent info. on a public policy issue. Must be an outlier moment.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

We the People have no 'right' to retirement, no 'right' to fair wages, no 'right' to weekends off. So how did these obviously communist/socialist values make their way into our hard working american ethos? We can see that the country, state, county and city are bankrupt because of the communist/socialists. Can't an honest business man make a 550 times the average worker's salary and not have to listen to the BS from 'the people'? We want retirement! We want fair wages! We want weekends off! We want an education! We want police protection! We want fire protection! Friggin' communists...

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

Unless, of course, your 'business' is 'too big to fail'. Friggin' hypocrites.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

The 'too big to fail' crowd. We should have let the Wall Street banks, GM and all the others go bankrupt--like good capitalists. Ben Benake has no problem floating loans to any and every business around the world (yeah, the Federal Reserve loaned out trillions of dollars to banks and businesses around the world), but refuses to 'bail out' the states.... What's wrong with this picture?

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HomeSlice 3 years, 7 months ago

It's time to starve the beast. Government unions get little sympathy because vast majority of hard working Americans don't have collective bargaining rights or the many lavish benefits.

Private sector disdain for unions emanates from: 1. Unions spend their time and money on politics & electing their bosses who kowtow to their wishes. 2. They receive prohibitively costly pensions that have built-in cost of living adjustments. 3. Job security based on archaic principles such as tenure that creates a culture of mediocrity. Having done a stint in the public sector, it was amazing to see how many employees were rusted to their chair, knowing they had a job for life. 4. Earlier retirement ages. How many of you can retire with full benefits in your mid 50's? 5. Superior health care benefits with minimal contributions both while working and when retired.

Union workers may want to keep in mind the best way to appreciate your job is to imagine yourself without one.

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notajayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

6. Unions have outlived both their necessity and their usefulness.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

OF course! Because, clearly, we can trust all businesses to 'do the right thing' these days.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

WTF are you talking about, friend? Obviously we can trust all corporations/businesses/states to do the right thing when it comes to it's workers, right? There's absolutely no reason for unions these days. I mean, we live in a virtual Shangri La now a days. Nope, no reason what-so-ever to have a laborers union. Those greedy laborers...trying to feed and educate their family's and retire and such... What are they thinking?!?! These things should only be available to the oligarchy...

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

Sarcasm Effective Tool or Deadly Weapon?

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notajayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

" Because, clearly, we can trust all businesses to 'do the right thing' these days."

Of course, by "right thing" I'm sure you mean the employers are supposed to 'share the wealth'. Nothing like a strong sense of entitlement to justify a no-longer-needed institution.

There are laws governing the minimum wage, 40 hour week, child labor, family medical leave, etc. What other "right thing" do you think you're entitled to that the unions will provide for you?

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madameX 3 years, 7 months ago

If by 'share the wealth' you mean compensate employees for the services they perform in a manner that accurately reflects the contribution the make to the employer's wealth and the overall success of the business then yes, they should 'share the wealth.'

Some companies do this already, and good for them. Others do not and their employees should be allowed to collectively try for a better deal if they deserve one. In some areas unions may have outlived their usefulness and even be doing more harm than good, but in others they are still needed.

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notajayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

All based on nothing more than a gigantic sense of entitlement. Wealth isn't something to be "shared".

The employees are entitled to compensation for the services they perform at the rate they agreed to when they took the job. If they can do better elsewhere they are free to do so. But hey, okay, let's say if the employer has a banner year, the employees get a share of that extra 'wealth'. The next year, when the economy tanks and the company loses money, are they going to pay it back?

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

No, by the "right thing" I mean business should move off-shore to places like Mexico and China where they no longer have to pay minimum wage, family medical leave, etc, etc.

You type "share the wealth" like it's a bad thing...You're one pie in the sky mofo. How about a dose of reality. Do you believe a company's CEO actually deserves to be paid 600-times the average employee? If so, then you may be part of the problem.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

He said "feed the poor." Yeah! Feed 'em to the lions!

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notajayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

"No, by the "right thing" I mean business should move off-shore to places like Mexico and China where they no longer have to pay minimum wage, family medical leave, etc, etc. "

Waaaaaah.

Here's a clue for you: Those jobs that moved offshore would have been lost to Americans regardless, either through automation or through business failures. Why? Because if an American corporation didn't build their plant in Malaysia, then a Japanese company, a Korean company, even a Malaysian company would have. And American consumers, who talk a good game about being willing to pay more for American made products, do no such thing. Speaking of being part of the problem, crazy, where was that computer you're posting from made? Your TV? Phone?

"How about a dose of reality."

Sure. Put down the bong and I'll give you one. If a line worker at the GM plant in Fairfax screws up, it's a do-over if it's caught before it leaves, a warranty repair by the dealer if it's not. If the CEO screws up, it not only potentially affects the jobs of hundreds of thousands of workers, but the local economies of hundreds of towns, even entire states - or entire countries. But hey, you're right, let's just pay him as much as the janitor.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

"strong sense of entitlement" LOL! So hypocritical of you! You seem to think that FMLA, 40-hour week, et al. were given to the workers by big business out of the goodness of their hearts. Answer me this: what's to keep big business from buying votes and changing labor law to whatever works best for them? Here's a hint: unions. You see, individual laborers rarely have the time or money it takes to travel to Washington DC, or the Statehouse, to lobby for labor law. However, if laborers band together and pool their resources then they might get a seat at the table. See how it works now? it's not ALL about sharing the wealth...it mostly about having a say in government. The government does not kowtow to the individual. Let's be honest, you're against unions because you feel laborers don't deserve much of anything and the upper echelon deserves most of everything....what sense of entitlement you have.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

My father's manufacturing plant will most likely be shut down now because a union voted to keep out of new technology that would have given the plant (and the town) literally millions of dollars worth of business.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

Wow. I just realized that every one of your bullit points could be applied to the military.

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Jan Rolls 3 years, 7 months ago

Blast unions now but remember if it wasn't for the unions we wouldn't have a minimum wage or overtime for more than 40 hours a week.

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georgeofwesternkansas 3 years, 7 months ago

The unions in this case are very active and contribute to elect the state pols. Then the union contracts are approved by the people the unions were very active in getting elected. How could this system ever go wrong you might ask? They have run out of other peoples money, might be the answer.

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bad_dog 3 years, 7 months ago

Carrying around a bundle of 3'5" floppy disks will give you a bad back, Ag ;-)

I hope you have health insurance...

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Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

Have the union hissy-fitters started throwing molotov cocktails yet?

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

I think they'll still in the "silly, knees-bent, running about advancing behaviour" stage, but it could change any minute.

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sr80 3 years, 7 months ago

i didn't think i was the only person in the world that doesn't like democrats.go read on madison.com if you want to see angst!!! those people aren't happy.

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heygary 3 years, 7 months ago

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be very liberal, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words; redistribution of wealth. She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch conservative, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his. One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school. Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn’t even have time for a boyfriend, and didn’t really have many college friends, because she spent all her time studying. Her father listened and then asked , “How is your friend Audrey doing?’ She replied, ‘ Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She Is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She’s always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn’t even show up for classes because she’s too hung over.” Her wise father asked his daughter, “Why don’t you go to the Dean’s office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA, and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.” The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion, angrily fired back, “That’s a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I’ve worked really hard for my grades! I’ve invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!” The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, “Welcome to the conservative movement.”

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

Comparison fail. And a long ranty story to boot.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Not as bad as original post fail.

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sr80 3 years, 7 months ago

a a a duhhhh!!! i caint unnerstood yall talkin aboow a a a duhhhh!!!

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madameX 3 years, 7 months ago

It must be really boring to belive one lives in a world that's so black and white as "hard work always = reward" and "goofing off always = dire consequences"

You should join us in the real world, where some people work hard and are rewarded, others work hard but never seem to get ahead, others goof off and ruin their lives, and others goof off their whole lives through, suffer no consequences, and sometimes are rewarded anyway (cough Charlie Sheen cough, cough). And all shades of gray in between. Believe it or not, this is the world you actually do live in , and I'm sure it's a much more intellectually stimulating place than the world you think you inhabit.

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JayCat_67 3 years, 7 months ago

True, but that gray area is just so booooooring and bad for ratings.

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FloridaSunshine 3 years, 7 months ago

heygary...What a disgusting waste of words. Rubbish!!!

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tbaker 3 years, 7 months ago

Government / public sector unions have been ripping off taxpayers for years. All the states currently facing bankruptcy are in the shape they are in becuase of the benefits that had been negotiated through collective bargaining in this unholy alliance between organized labor and politicians. What sickens me is the fact "collective bargaining" is between two parties who EACH have a vested interest in the outcome. In private business, the business owner has a huge stake in the outcome of the collective bargaining with the union. The business owner is very careful not to give too much to the union becuase he has a bottom line, a point where his expenses will make his business no longer competitive or profitable. Contrast this with so-called collective bargaining between a city, county or a state government and a public employees union. The politicians have NO vested interest other than their own political future. Whatever benefits they agree to give the union are passed directly to you and me - the taxpayer. They know they will get the gratitude of the union members, which means getting their votes and campaign contributions. That means getting re-elected. Public sector unions should be abolished.

Its a moot point anyway. Unlike the federal government, States can't print money. Broke is broke. The tax payers are tapped out, so raising more taxes is out of the question. Either the states descend into chaos and bankruptcy, or the public sector unions take substantial reductions in their pay and benefit packages. Its as simple as that.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

Someone on my journal flist brought up a good point. "... what is the Chamber of Commerce if it is not a union - a union organized for the purpose of defeating American workers and dedicated to achieving that goal?"

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

As soon as the Chamber of Commerce gets the legal right to compel businesses to join and pay dues, it might be considered a union.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

Good answer. I'll bring up that point.

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

It depends on the state law, Agnostik. Where I grew up in Minnesota, it was very 'closed shop.' There were certain occupations you simply could not do unless you were in the union. Kansas, not so much, which is another reason I live in Kansas. Wisconsin's law, I think, is closer to Minnesota's than ours.

That said, the point was simply that a labor union is a legal entity that has certain rights and powers under law. The Chamber of Commerce is a voluntary organization that has none of that. Just because the word 'union' can reasonably be applied to both, it does not make them the same thing any more than it makes them Sheridan's cavalry.

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sr80 3 years, 7 months ago

did anyone notice that the CoC moved from 734 vermont to 646 vermont, i think they did it under the cover of darkness!!!! very slick !!!

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wisconsin-gov-walker-ginned-up-budget-shortfall-to-undercut-worker-rights.php

"Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January."

Think about this:

The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

Banana Republic is where I buy all my stuff.

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notajayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

"Think about this:

"The richest 1 percent of Americans ... yada, yada, yada ..."

And did you have a point? Class jealousy is such an ugly thing.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

Class oppression is even uglier.

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notajayhawk 3 years, 7 months ago

Oh yeah, those money-mongering bourgeoise with their jack-booted heels on the throats of the proletariat. [Speaking of rolling eyes ...]

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llama726 3 years, 7 months ago

Why don't you make an intellectual argument? With your genius IQ, you are more than capable.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

"With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost." -William Lloyd Garrison

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FloridaSunshine 3 years, 7 months ago

Ahhhhh...the wisdom of Garrison is astonishing...even unto this day and time...

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KU_Hunter 3 years, 7 months ago

I believe it was President Obama who put it well after winning the White House in 2008: "Elections have consequences,"

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yourworstnightmare 3 years, 7 months ago

Too bad the Wisconsin senate doesn't have the filibuster.

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lucky_guy 3 years, 7 months ago

Wisconsin Public employees union are the salvation of the republic 1. They are fighting for their rights to free association and collectively bargain 2. If there are specific issues with teachers or other workers being forced into the union then those issues could be addressed separately. 3. Pay cuts and pension contributions could also be addressed without a legislative sledge hammer to bust the union. 4. Whatever the unions end up losing, will never come back, ever, so they had better fight for whatever they can salvage. 5. Contributions that the employees make to their pensions could be used by the state as a loan i.e investment in politically connected business, etc. (Happened in Kansas). 6. Walker is using this to run for President. Note Repbulican presidents Calvin Coolidge and Reagan all got Kudos when they busted unions.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

What a terribly misguided post.

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Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

What a terribly empty reply that has no point and means squat.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

[Standby for detailed post refuted lucky_guy's misguided post]

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

Funny how everyone loves the right to free association, right up to the point that someone doesn't wish to associate with them. Then that becomes discrimination.

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

Almost as good as 'strategic retreat.'

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Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

"Wisconsin Public employees union are the salvation of the republic..." Ding, ding, ding! We have the Hyperbole of the Week winner, folks. Don Pardo, tell lucky what he's won!

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

I had decided to not address that ridiculousness, but I guess it was just begging to be called out.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Very true. I am unsure how refusing to participate at all is courageous. Enlighten us, oh wise generalizer cait.

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

You forgot "Blessed Modifitrix of Connotations." Titles are important here in class-oppressive America.

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Kirk Larson 3 years, 7 months ago

Notice that the three unions that are exempted are the three unions that endorsed Walker for governor. It has been clearly established that the budget shortfall is not that bad and mostly of the governor's own making. This is about union busting for political gain. If they can do it in Wisconsin to the public workers, they can push it to the private sector and across the country. Unions created the middle class in America, the republicans are out to eliminate it.

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Fossick 3 years, 7 months ago

There is no need push union-busting into the private sector, for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist there.

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

"Unions created the middle class in America..." That may be true, but now that the middle class is created, I think we can all agree unions need to leave. They've outlived their usefulness by several decades.

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Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

Pray tell, what will happen once the unions are gone and the worker no longer has a voice in the labor law conversation? I agree that some unions may need to be reigned in; no one should be forced to join (for instance), but to eliminate unions completely would be ignorant. IMHO

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Majestic42 3 years, 7 months ago

Cait, I do believe you've been thoroughly owned throughout this discussion.

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Olympics 3 years, 7 months ago

Regardless of your opinion about the protesting workers in Madison, Wisconsin, there's one thing I that I promise you to be true... http://i.imgur.com/xvQga.jpg

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Olympics 3 years, 7 months ago

ACT/SAT rankings for the 5 states without collective bargaining for their teachers? South Carolina - 50 North Carolina - 49 Georgia - 48 Texas - 47 Virginia - 44

Where does Wisonsin fall? 2nd.

Additional Details http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ft

^ACT/SAT scores by state http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

^Here's an article about how non-collective bargaining states suck at education http://proamlib.blogspot.com/2011/02/col

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Kirk Larson 3 years, 7 months ago

Excellent point. People often say, "You can't fix education by throwing money at it", but you notice, for the most part performance and per student spending track pretty closely together.

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