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Why is Roman Catholicism attacked so much?


Archbishop Fulton Sheen once said: If I were not a Catholic and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates. My reason for doing this would be that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, he must still be hated as he was when he was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world.

Look for the Church that is hated by the world as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times as our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior as they sneered at our Lord because he came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil as our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the prince of devils. Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of God as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to God. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible as Pilate rejected Christ because he called himself the Truth. Look for the Church which is rejected by the world as our Lord was rejected by men.

Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions its members love as they love Christ and respect its voice as the very voice of its founder, and the suspicion will grow that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly it is other-worldly. Since it is other-worldly it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ himself. But only that which is divine can be infinitely hated and infinitely loved. Therefore the Church is divine. (slightly edited for readability)


Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 7 months ago

I joined the Catholic church in 2002. The year of instruction before baptism allowed us to know about the faith we were going to be adopting as our own. We bonded with the others in the group over that time. It was a wonderful experience. I love the Catholic church in the true sense of the word. My faith informs everything that I do. It is who I am. Thank you for writing this blog.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 8 years, 7 months ago

Something tells me Jesus would not have shown up for Mass.

Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 7 months ago

There is a lot of difference between Catholics and Protestants. We have a crucifix because the Prots deny the crucified Christ. We have a great reverance for Mary and pray to the saints and to our ancestors for help and guidance. We have baptism once a year for adults and you must go though a year of instruction and attend breaking open the word, day long retreats, rituals. So no one can say they didn't know what they were getting into when they joined the church. We have baby baptism where the child is introduced as the newest member of our faith family and has godparents who will help to guide the chlld though life, and raise the child should something happen to the parents. We have an altar and believe that the wafer and wine really is changed into the body and blood of Christ. We believe in the resurrection of a glorified body. And, the rituals are not only cool, they serve as a means to separate ourselves from the world and focus on the holy. Jesus is present at every mass.

dweezil222 8 years, 7 months ago

I dislike (hate is such a strong word) the Catholics for the way they think they can force their views about abortion on everyone, regardless of whether they adhere to that particular faith or not.

Soup2Nuts 8 years, 7 months ago

Look for the church who's most trusted patriarchs molest little boys and then try to cover it up.

kugrad 8 years, 7 months ago

Hmm, I don't hate the Roman Catholic Church, but here are some things that get to me:

  • The hats
  • The pagentry
  • The pope (Nothing biblical supports putting one person ahead of another)
  • Taking offense all the time -acting like victims while getting preferential treatment as often as not
  • Bishops getting involved in politics w/ tax-exempt status
  • Tax exempt status enriching vatican
  • Staging obviously fake miracles to raise money, such as annually liquifiying centuries old blood.
  • Sanctioning and encouraging the belief in fake relics and miracles (Virgin of Guadalupe for example)
  • Always seeing the virgin mary in french toast, pancakes, chocolate bars, tree trunks, ice-cream spills on the sidewalk, tortillas, etc.
  • Ready to take, take, take from the poorest peoples in the world and using fake virgin mary sightings etc. to grab the cash
  • The cheap tips they left, when they left any at all, after they would drunkenly trash the banquet areas at restaurants I worked at as a young person

Just a few things that bug me about Roman Catholics, so in fairness, what I like:

  • when the pope asks Israel to stop human rights abuses (no one else is allowed to criticize them apparently)
  • When the Pope tells the USA not to start unjust wars (no one else is allowed to criticize us apparently)
  • When the Pope tells anyone to stop political and economic unjustice/injustice
  • The rational beliefs of the church, of which there are many, that stand them apart from bible-worshipers posing as christians (aka "christianists") who are really political/cultural christians
  • All the work done worldwide to help fight poverty and world hunger
  • We all know about those roman catholic girls
  • They do throw good drunken bashes

beatrice 8 years, 7 months ago

"Look for the Church that is hated by the world as Christ was hated by the world."

Christ was hated by "the world"? Really? Word about his being alive reached Africa, and Asia, and North America, and people hated hearing about it? How stupid. How remarkably and completely asinine.

As far as why this church might be hated, I'll just toss in the Inquisition for grins and giggles. I'll follow that up with the most obvious -- They don't deserve our respect because God Doesn't Exist!

Why the hell should anyone "love" a powerful organization that has its own country, receives tax-exempt status in our country, even though it is based around made-up mumbo jumbo? Absolute nonsense. The Catholic church is a simple tool for a few people to control the masses. Fear us, tell us your secrets and give us your money, or you will go to Hell!!!!! In other words, man made God in man's own image.

The only thing the Catholics ever had going for them was some great art, but beyond that ...? I guess the Pope-mobile is cool.

This is Big Prune simply reworking the poor, poor "conservative victim" whine. What garbage. No wonder the rest of the country has moved beyond the antics of the neocons.

Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 7 months ago

I don't think the Catholic Church is asking anyone to love it. How we Catholics choose to worship and what we believe is our own business. We do not force ourselves or or beliefs on others. So, Bea, are you saying I don't deserve respect because I believe in God. I remember someone asking Father who was going to go to Hell, and Father said he had no idea. I don't think the questioner was satisfied but the rest of us were.

jonas_opines 8 years, 7 months ago

When I was in Europe with my wife for our honeymoon, we went to two places with a great deal of renown. The first was a trip to Versailles. I remember thinking at the time that it was little wonder that the people who built and lived in that place were beheaded. The display of unimaginable wealth was incredible, and to think of them living there when there were poor people starving in the streets at the time, it was understandable that the peasantry revolted against the rulers.

Then of course, we went to the Vatican. The seat of a religion that supposedly stresses a life of virtue over wordly goods, and states that a camel has a better chance of fitting through the eye of a needle than a rich man has of getting into heaven.

The Vatican is at least twice as richly furnished, luxurious in appearance, and conspicuous in its wealth as Versailles. It is very, very difficult to not see an immense amount of hypocricy in that.

It's not just the Vatican either. Travel in many 3rd world countries, from personal experience and reports of others, and you see obvious signs of poverty everywhere you look, with little reprieve, until you come to the Catholic Church of the area or the region.

beatrice 8 years, 7 months ago

Yes Irish, your faith alone does not warrant my respect. It is through your actions that you, or anyone else for that matter, will earn my respect. I don't disrespect you or anyone else for having faith, it is just that those claims mean nothing to me one way or the other. A simple fact of life is that you don't deserve respect, you earn it.

As far as your saying that Catholics don't force their beliefs on others, I must say -- huh? Are you serious? You obviously don't know the history of your own religion. Present-day missionaries are just a continuation of a long practice of Catholics, and other faiths and religions, of forcing beliefs onto others. (Did you miss my Inquisition reference?)

I'm not sure what your Hell story had to do with anything. The answer to the question is that nobody is going to Hell, because Hell doesn't exist.

beatrice 8 years, 7 months ago

Marion, does your story end as I can only imagine -- with orders of protections being filed against you?

Dan Eyler 8 years, 7 months ago

the church protects the unborn, they support traditional family, they are against birth control, they oppose gay marriage, so this all equals hate in the atheist secular world. On the other hand their rule of not allowing priests to wed has allowed the pediphiles to infiltrate the church. But any christian knows that the same sins are a part of all christian churches and shamefully isn't always weeded out. What atheists and non church goers don't understand is the fact that Christ Jesus warned christians over and over again that "they will hate Me before they hate you." The bible is true and accurate to the letter for those who are faithful. But turning away from the teachings of the world takes faith. Stand strong you Catholics.

madman 8 years, 7 months ago

Irish- Protestants do not deny the crucified Christ. I grew-up protestant (Methodist) and we celebrate Easter just like all other Christians do. I have recently converted to Catholism. Do you realize that Luthern and Episicipal Church are Protestant religions? Yeah, some refer to them as "Catholic Light" because they are so similar to the Catholic church.

Also, other churches require instruction before being able to join the church "so they know what they are getting into". Not just Catholics. Although, most aren't a year long.

I was also baptized as a baby, Catholics don't own that either. I also was given Godparents too.

And the Catholic church recongizes my baptism in a protestant church, so I didn't have to do it again as an adult.

doc1 8 years, 7 months ago

One thing I think is wrong is that if I go to a catholic church I am not allowed to take communion. I'm a christian but I'm not allowed to take communion in a catholic church. Apparently Catholics believe that when god made bread for those it was only for Catholics. I've noticed so many more similar things that are annoying about the church itself. It's very secular and puts too much praise on other stuff besides god himself. Man should have one god, and shouldn't have bow down to bishops, cardinals, pope etc..

puddleglum 8 years, 7 months ago

Why is Roman Catholicism attacked so much?

uh, because they are evil and do the devil's work? besides that, their weddings take forever.

Katara 8 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

mdrndgtl 8 years, 7 months ago

Okay guys, just got off the phone with Jesus. He wanted me to let you know, everything is all good. Said he would sort all of this out when he gets back in town.

Katara 8 years, 7 months ago

mdrndgtl (Anonymous) says… Okay guys, just got off the phone with Jesus. He wanted me to let you know, everything is all good. Said he would sort all of this out when he gets back in town. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heh. I read that in Father Guido Sarducci's voice.

Ralph Reed 8 years, 7 months ago

BP, even though there seems to be a modicum of discussion as a result of your, rather Arbishop Fuller Sheen's, blog, I take issue with your quoting a paragraph out of context, especially without any analysis. I don't mind responding, but to whom should I respond, you or the Archbishop? Also, a reference would be nice.

Please look at the preceeding paragraph at this link. I think it sheds a different light than what you were trying to portray. (Scroll all the way to the bottom of the page.) http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/

I'm me. Who are you behind your hood of anonymity?

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 8 years, 7 months ago

You know, a lot of grief could have been avoided if the "golden rule" had properly been translated/interpreted:

"Do not unto others as you would not have them do unto you."

(If you would not have others impose their religious beliefs on you, then....)

igby 8 years, 7 months ago

"on this rock, I will build the church", ...Peter's faith is the rock, the foundation of faith and acknowledgment that Christ, was the son of God.

Did Christ say go the priest and confess, no. Did Christ stand up and establish a network of stumbling blocks and hurdles before one could approach God, no. Did Christ honor his mother into sainthood and raise her up to the level of God, no. But honor of your father and mother is done with a humble heart with no flattery. Did Christ not run the money changers out of the temple on the holy day.

KatWrangler 8 years, 7 months ago

beatrice (Anonymous) says…

Ding, ding, ding thank you for a wonderful response! Awesome and I totally agree.

FTR I am ex-Catholic (married in the church too) but Atheist for the last 10 years.

jayhawklawrence 8 years, 7 months ago

The Catholic Church remains relevant because the alternatives are not that attractive to most Catholics. The church tends to be reasonable and down to earth in dealing with life and it has the richest history of all the churches in Western Civilization. It is a safe place to worship.

In my opinion, the political activism of the church detracts from it's mission because picking sides in politics tends to lessen your credibility. For example, some people believe a different approach to the abortion issue would achieve far greater results than simply trying to overturn roe v wade. Some would say the political activism of the church is simply part of a public relations campaign. The church leadership has credibility issues, not the religion.

Many Protestant churches have rich and exciting worship services and spiritual support activities that the Catholic Church sometimes lacks because they are sometimes too steeped in tradition and bogged down by old habits and rituals. The average Catholic is more liberal and independent thinking than the church itself. That is a curious aspect of the Catholic church.

From my experience, if you want to have a rich spiritual experience and nurture a life long relationship with Christ, both Protestant and Catholic Churches are abundantly rich in resources and you will never lack for interesting and fulfilling things to do and people to meet.

I was raised Catholic but today I attend a Protestant Church and I am happy with it. I think either one is a good choice and it depends on the individual and their particular needs.

Cait McKnelly 8 years, 7 months ago

I actually like the Catholic Church. They're the only Christian religion to admit and accept the existence of a Goddess. Of course Marionolatry has it's roots in a far more pragmatic expedience. Many countries Christianized in the first five centuries of the Church would have never accepted Christianity without a goddess. http://www.amazon.com/Alone-All-Her-Sex-Virgin/dp/0394711556/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248097074&sr=8-1 Here, this is a very good read.

Left_handed 8 years, 7 months ago

Most protestant churches don't have crucifixes (although some Lutheran churches do) not because they deny the crucifixion. The crucifixion was a vital step in man's redemption, but the lynchpin of Christianity is how Jesus was taken down from the cross and placed in a tomb from which he ultimately rose. As the apostle Paul put it, if he didn't rise, then our faith "is in vain".

Bob Forer 8 years, 7 months ago

I wouldn't pay attention to anything Irish says. She's been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder and is pretty fricking ignorant to boot.

WhiteDog 8 years, 7 months ago

The most hated religion? Really? Then it would seem to me that the archbishop must be Jewish by now. Historically speaking, there has been lots more hatred and persecution directed toward the Jews than say, the Presbyterians.

As for me personally, I don't hate Catholicism. I have disdain for many of the churches teachings, however. Like what's the deal with a group of (supposedly) celibate men telling a financially-strapped married couple they can't use a condom because birth control is a mortal sin, but they can use "Natural Family Planning"? Ridiculous.

Maddy Griffin 8 years, 7 months ago

I was born and raised Catholic, but have not been a "practicing" Catholic for almost 40 years. Leaving the Church was not an option as a child. As an adult I began researching the history of the Catholic Church and decided there was just too much corruption and evil for me to continue my life as a Catholic. Might as well join the Mafia. No disrespect to fellow Catholics, it's just not for me. I am against any form of organized religion now. My relationship with God is VERY personal and I intend to keep it that way.

Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 7 months ago

We were told in no uncertain terms that we do not worship Mary and that it is wrong to do so. We owe her reverence as the mother of Jesus. I am sure that he would want us to respect his mother. I don't mean only when I write something. I am just giving my point of view. I have never been in a Prot church. We were told before we adults were baptized that people would say things about us and criticize us and if we couldn't take it not to join. There are married pedophiles who take advantage of their children, men who got married for that reason. A pedophile is not interested in an adult woman, they are only attracted to children.

craigers 8 years, 7 months ago

Wow, this thread is entertaining. My biggest beefs about Catholicism: 1. Pray to the saints. Absolutely nothing biblical about this. There is one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus. Praying to the saints or angels is worthless and will avail nothing but due to doctrine of the church people think they are getting somewhere.
2. The structure to where the Pope's words are God's literal words where nobody disputes it. Even the apostle Paul that had more revelation on the gift of grace than anybody in history stated that he applauded the people that went back and studied the scriptures to make sure what he was telling them was true. 3. The denying of communion to non-Catholics. The gift of Jesus body and the blood was shed for all, not only those who have gone through their confirmation classes. Denying God's free gift of grace is completely unbiblical. I guess the thief on the cross couldn't have communion but got to go to heaven? 4. The denying of communion for those that get a divorce. What? Really? No sin is above another and though I am completely against divorce, I think the church that should be a welcoming minister of the grace of God should help restore people not tell them then need to get their marriage annulled in order to be right with the Catholic Church. 5. This I know is not the case of all Catholics, but there are some that are so legalistic about having to dress a certain way for church, have to attend only Catholic church, have to bow in reverance to Mary, among many other things that they get wrapped up in rituals not faith in Christ.
6. Pennance. Nothing biblical about doing something to pay for your sins to make you right. The payment was done once for all with the atoning work of Jesus Christ. 7. Peter is not the rock being referred to in the Bible. The rock is a picture of Christ. The church is to be built on Christ, not the heritage of Peter as great as he was. The rock is used in the Old Testament as a shadow of Christ to come. Water came from the rock for the Israelites because Christ is the sustainer of life. The next time they needed water, the rock was used again and Moses struck the rock, which is foreshadowing of Jesus being struck and pierced to where blood and water flowed. There is one foundation and that is the rock of Jesus Christ.

Sorry for the beef there and I honestly know great Catholic people that honestly and sincerely believe in God but I have also seen a great deal that go to church every week to check the box and then live their life every other moment as if the Bible teachings aren't for them.

madman 8 years, 7 months ago

If you don't like the Catholic Church, don't join it. I recently converted to Catholism and in my 32 years of life NO ONE has ever tried to recruit me into being a Catholic. I decided on my own. I have however had friends/family try to talk me out of any kind of religion, weird huh? Well, and then the occassional knock on the door from other Churches.

I don't think the Catholic Church is the answer for everyone, it is not perfect, nothing is.... I first consider myself Christian and I use Catholism as my road map. I think everyone can pick their own path. If you believe or don't believe, if you are Catholic or Protestant. No ones journey is the same regardless and we shouldn't judge people on what they feel their "truth" is.

jessanddaron 8 years, 7 months ago

I have no relationship to catholicism but the best understanding I've gotten came from Bill Maher's Religulous in which a high ranking catholic priest at the Vatican attempted to explain how contemporary catholics are trying to distance themselves from how their religion used to be. It is a culture as well as a religion and I can respect that. The ones who bother me are the ones sitting outside Planned Parenthood with jumbo sized pictures of mangled abortions. You will NEVER improve anything with such radical and shocking methods.

madman 8 years, 7 months ago


My relationship with God and Jesus is personal as it should be. I haven't received a tax deduction yet for any contributions made to any Church.

dandelion 8 years, 7 months ago

roger_gilchrist (Anonymous) says…

There is only one reason I would become Catholic. I could do whatever I wanted during the week, and then say a few Hail Mary's after confession and be forgiven for whatever sins I commited. Awesome. I remeber the stories of all my Catholic friends. They would talk about all their fathers, being hungover, sitting in the back and reeking of alcohol from the night before. I tend not to believe in invisible figures in the sky. Seems creepy to me.

The message I get from the evangelicals is that you can do all that and just get borned again. As long as you believe in Jesus, you are going to heaven. Deeds don't mean anything. A loving, charitable atheist won't go to heaven, but an adulterer and liar will, because they believe in Jesus. At least Catholics have to go to confession and atone.

Kryptenx 8 years, 7 months ago

Ridiculously faulty logic. I can prove anything by begging the question as well. What bullsh*t.

Bob Forer 8 years, 7 months ago

I don't hate Christians or Catholics. Hosever, I find their antiquated beliefs odd. Here's my take: http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/dialectical-hilarity/2009/jul/18/dear-christians/#comments

denak 8 years, 7 months ago

I think the reason Catholicism is attacked so much is because I think there is a lot of ignorace out there regarding the Church and how it is set up, what its practices are, the hierachy and its Doctrines and belief structure.

There are a lot of people who do hate the Catholic Church, as well as other religions, and yet, when you talk to them, they have no real in depth understanding of what the Church teaches or how it is set up.

Even on here, I have seen several people post that Protestants can not take communion at the Catholic Mass. that is true but there are Catholics who aren't allowed also. Catholics who have not taken their first communion are not allowed either. A person can take Communion only after they have recieved the Eucharistic Sacrament. This is not an anti-Protestant thing. IF you have not had your First Communion or if you have violated one of the other Sacraments, you can't take it.

Secondly, contrary to what roger believes, You can not party all the time, say a few Hail Marys and all if forgiven. Doesn't quite work that way. (sorry bummer)

Unfortunately, my break is over. So I can't get into all this. But I did want to comment on this. I will be back on later because I did want to say more.


jimmyjms 8 years, 7 months ago

Let's see...trusted members of the church rape little boys, for years. Church finds out, covers it up, moves the offenders to other parishes without the slightest notice to the congregations, tries to use hush money to keep it quiet, and then when a few years go by, and the victims begin to speak out, trash the victim and label them "attention seeking greed mongers."

Does that answer the question, Prune?

We don't need to even get into the fact that the church could make a pretty huge dent in poverty and hunger just by selling its art collection, or maybe a chalet or two.

craigers 8 years, 7 months ago

Dena, my objection to that philosophy is still how can you perform/not violate these other sacraments in order to be considered right/worthy to take communion? Is there not one sacrifice for sin? Either Jesus' sacrifice on the cross made us worthy or it didn't. The only requirement in scripture when it comes to communion is that "We examine ourselves(I Corinthians 11:28)".

Stuart Evans 8 years, 7 months ago

all religions are the same to me. lies for power. stories of hell and sin used to control the people. keep feeding the beast. after all, thinking for yourselves is over rated....

Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 7 months ago

OeraLinda That would explain St. Johns serving at the LINK lunches, donating food to the pantry, giving people money so they won't have utilities turned off, or so they won't be evicted, gas money to get to work, bus passes, do volunteer work in a lot of areas. Wow, I guess our parish money isn't going to Rome.

pace 8 years, 7 months ago

When a woman is pope, priest can marry. When all Christians quit confusing their religion with public morality, when churches support the sinner rather than the "traditional" family. When they get back in the business of saving rather than preserving the status quo.

MissinLawrence 8 years, 7 months ago

Corruption can occur in any religion. How do you know that corruption only occurs in the Catholic religion? Are you Catholic? Or are you an outsider looking and assuming?

I do not care what religion you choose to believe in. I believe that it matters that you believe in a way to get yourself to Heaven, no matter which direction you take. If people are curious about my religion, I will speak the truth, but will not force the religion upon you (I really do not like this).

Addressing the donation of money. As a Catholic, I donate 10% of my earnings to the faith, as many Catholics do. But I know many families who can not afford to donate 10% or even any amount to the church, and that is fine with many. I personally feel I have been given so much, with good health, family, friends, education, that the least I can do to help the one thing that has been there for me whenever I need it (and will continue to be there for me) is give a monetary donation to help others less fortunate than myself.

This is what I believe.

MissinLawrence 8 years, 7 months ago

Irish, you attend St. Johns? Father Johns homily Sunday was great.

beatrice 8 years, 7 months ago

"Corruption can occur in any religion."

Sounds like a good argument against all religions to me.

Marion -- learn how to take a joke already! Geez louise the conservatives are touchy these days.

jonas_opines 8 years, 7 months ago

roger-gilchrist: A look at the history of Buddhism shows a belief system just as susceptible to corruption, power, and violence as any other.

Hell, the Pure Land form of Buddhism sounds almost exactly the same as Christianity from a bare-bones perspective. We live in the time of the Final Degeneration of the Law, where the true words of the Buddha have been twisted and reflected for so long that they are forgotten. As such, we as mortals have no way on our own powers to achieve enlightenment. But the great Bodhisatva Amithaba made a vow, that when he became a Buddha, humans could think on him, and say his name, and then when they died they would be reborn into the Pure Land, a land free of defilements or destractions (like women!) where they could meditate and acheive Nirvana.

Then there's the Tiantai sect of the Mahayana form of Buddhism, that preached non-violence as one of its principle foundations, but later, in Japan (Tendai) became extremely violent and warlike, and was eventually burned out and destroyed by Oda Nobunaga before they turned on him.

The lesson? Humans are fallable, and can break anything that they touch, probably.

mom_of_three 8 years, 7 months ago

Seems like every religion thinks they are hated and attacked by others. I don't think it is just a catholic thing.

Kathy Theis-Getto 8 years, 7 months ago

Why is Roman Catholicism attacked so much?

Ask the Huguenots

Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 7 months ago

Lets fast forward to today. How the money given in tithes is used by the church is put in the bulletin for everyone to see. I don't have the number handy right now. Harping on pedophiles is not going to help anyone. What about all of the priests and nuns who give their life to the church and to service. What about those who serve at the Open Shelter and do not ask what faith the homeless have, but only how they can help them? People who lead chaste, decent lives are just not as interesting I guess. My Catholicism is something that no one can ever take away from me. It permeates every aspect of my being and my life. It gives me joy and hope. I love the Catholic Church.

sibkiss 8 years, 7 months ago

Anyone ever read the book called The Babylon Mystery Religion? It has some interesting facts about the history of the Catholic church. The "holy prepuce" was my favorite for a good laugh.

Anybody seen the Audrey Hepburn film about Sister Luke? Creepy...made me want to cry for her, and shoot the nuns.

Banning some kinds of birth control, not so good a thing in my opinion. Human tissue is being formed in the womb but miscarriage doesnt amount to murder so why does abortion?

One time my husband saw a group of Catholics praying to a statue of the "Holy Dismal". He said it was strange enough.

The Trinity doctrine was forced by the sword. There isnt any real evidence it is anything real. Thomas Jefferson called it "the inexplicable arithmetic that three are one and one are three" and the I never needed to believe it to be a Christian.

Last time I heard the Pope call for a global Financial Manager that would solve the money crisis I asked myself why? Cant state governments take care of it themselves?

Any church organization of a smaller size so riddled with scandal over homosexual priests who seduced or molested children would be run out of town on a rail for being a cult.

jonas_opines 8 years, 7 months ago

"Sorry if that offends, but sometimes ya gotta call 'em like ya see 'em."

And allows us to delegitimize the conclusion reached just as easily as you reached it, 4125.

roger: I will say this about Buddhism, at its most basic foundation it does stress individual acts and a non-violent life. In constrast to many other organized religions.

But I do agree with your basic conclusion.

average 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm independent of the whole shebang (Jeffersonian deist), but it's kinda fun to needle the Catholic church. Who knew the largest organized group on planet Earth could have such a hilarious victim complex?

denak 8 years, 7 months ago

".....We don't need to even get into the fact that the church could make a pretty huge dent in poverty and hunger just by selling its art collection, or maybe a chalet or two..."

I'd like to comment on this.

First, the Catholic Church does put a pretty huge dent in poverty and hunger. Catholic CHarities has been the number one or number two religious charity in the U.S. for over 50 years. The Catholic Church the single biggest non-governmental aid program in the world. It has continously operated food kitchens, clothing stores, has one of the largest hospital chains and operates one of the largest educational systems in the world.

Secondly, no the Catholic Church can not sell a chalice or two or that pretty huge art collection. The Catholic Church does not own most of that huge art collection. The artwork belongs to the Vatican Museaum which is analogous to the Smithsonian and the U.S. govenment. The Catholic Church can not sell the statute of David anymore than the U.S. can sell fonzi's jacket out from under the Smithsonian. Or sell Mt. Rushmore to developers. The art work is considered "for humanity" and therefore can not be sold. The Catholic Church is actually charged with perserving the artwork.

Third, the Church's wealth is tied up in non-liquid assets. Contrary to what some believe, it is not a cash cow. The Vatican's operating budget is roughly 260 million dollars a year. Harvard's operating budget, on the other hand, is 1.3 million.

Lastly, whether or not a priest takes a vow of poverty depends on the order that he belongs to. It is not a sin to have wealth. The Bible cautions against the love of money. Not money itself.


denak 8 years, 7 months ago

"....my objection to that philosophy is still how can you perform/not violate these other sacraments in order to be considered right/worthy to take communion? Is there not one sacrifice for sin? Either Jesus' sacrifice on the cross made us worthy or it didn't..."


I don't think it has anything to do with worthiness per se. A Catholic is not "more worthy" in the eyes of God to take communion. From what I understand, the reason non-Catholics can not take communion at a Catholic Church is because of how the Eucharist is viewed by Protestants. Catholics believe in the "real presence" of Jesus in the Eucharist whereas Protestants do not. (Although, to what extent, would depend on the individual Protestant Church) From what I am to understand, Eastern Orthodox church members can take the Catholic Eucharists because their beliefs regarding the Eucharists. I know some people view this restriction as a rejection of sorts but it isn't meant to be personal. The restriction is put into place because the Eucharists is considered a Sacrament and should therefore be treated as such.


beatrice 8 years, 7 months ago

Check out the movie "The Magdalene Sisters," based on the Magdalene Asylums in Ireland, and how they made girls and women determined to be "fallen" to work like slaves for the nun's laundry service. The cruelty of the Catholics as shown in this film -- and some have said that the reality was much worse -- is unimaginable. It is a very moving film on how the human spirit can triumph over diversity. Watching this movie, it is hard to imagine you are watching recent history, with the last asylum closing in 1996! You would think you were watching something about the 1700s.

Just to note, I understand that films and reality are obviously two different things. The Magdalene Sisters is a work of fiction based on true accounts. In support of what it is showing, the 2009 Commission into Child Abuse in Ireland concluded that "tens of thousands of Irish children were sexually, physically and emotionally abused by nuns, priests and others over 60 years in a network of church-run residential schools meant to care for the poor, the vulnerable and the unwanted" The allegations of abuse covers many Catholic and State run Irish Industrial schools, including the Magdalene Asylums.

So I recommend all Catholics watch this film, then get back to me on whether or not I should respect someone simply because they are a Catholic.



Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 7 months ago

I do love Jesus. I should know by now that I have to put everything in when I write or someone will use it as an excuse. I love God. I love Jesus. I love Mary and all the saints. I love my family. I love the Catholic Church for being the receptacle of faith and for teaching us about God, Jesus, Mary and all the saints.

denak 8 years, 7 months ago

"....It seems a bit self serving to say the gospels require the education of priests to understand. If that is true why did Jesus surround himself with fishermen and a lady of the evening?..."

Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute. No where in the New Testament does it say that she was. Mary Magadalene was one of Jesus most prominant disciples. And contrary to modern-day popular belief, she was not Jesus' wife either. There is no more historical or biblical proof of that then she being a prostitute. This myth was common among Western Christianity but there is no basis in fact. The Catholic Church has not promoted this view since 1969. Today, she is second only to Mary in terms of women in the Church.

As for the Church changing its message. Well, that depends on what you are talking about. In the Catholic Church, there are several levels of law. At the top is Doctrine. Doctrine is infallible and does not change. Second to doctrine are the two levels of teaching. The first level is considered "dogma" and the second level is simply called teaching. Opinion is considered the lowest level. The levels are determined by the amount of authority it has in relation to the Bible. This is somewhat analogous to our legal system here in the U.S. The weight of our laws is determined by the authority it has. The state of Ks is in the 11th judicial district. Other states in the 11th judicial district have primary authority. States outside the 11th judicial district have secondary. Anyway, the point I am making, is that the Church does not willy nilly change its mind. Depending on biblical and societal evidence, the Chuch not only can, but has a moral obligation, to address the issues of the day. The only "law" written in stone, sort of speak is doctine.

As for priests being teachers. The Catholic Church does not say that only priests have the answers. In fact, indpendent bible study is encouraged.

Have to go now. sorry to cut this "short" Have kids to feed.

Take care,


Fiat 8 years, 7 months ago

Every human being has an inner sense of what is right and wrong a "gut" feeling. When they go against that they feel uneasy and if a person or institution has stirred that gut feeling they will vent their anger against the person or institution. Jesus said his followers must be salt in society otherwise they were of no use to the world In other words when we do not live in a Christlike manner we have lost our saltiness It is our irritating refusal to endorse wrong actions or directions which is preserving the life of our society The day we put a desire to be popular and liked before our duty to live according to Christ's Truth which I believe is maintainned in its purest form in the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church then we will have lost our saltiness and joined the culture of death. Every person reading this comment was once a tiny collection of cells in a womb. We know innately whether we believe in a God or gods or in nothing that to kill an innocent child in the womb is wrong. We were all allowed to live. It does not matter what circumstances led to the conception A new life has begun and should be allowed to live just as we were allowed to live.

jonas_opines 8 years, 7 months ago

"Every human being has an inner sense of what is right and wrong a “gut” feeling."

No they don't. They are taught it from as soon as they can perceive.

Bob Forer 8 years, 7 months ago

Good girl, Irish. You too the bait hook, line and sinker. Have you any indepedent thoughts or ideas?

Satirical 8 years, 7 months ago

Denak... "The state of Ks is in the 11th judicial district. Other states in the 11th judicial district have primary authority. States outside the 11th judicial district have secondary."

FYI, Kansas is in the 10th federal judicial circuit, not the 11th.

craigers 8 years, 7 months ago

Dena, I appreciate your comments concerning the Eucharist. While I understand the stance of it being a sacrament and that people should treat it as such, I simply don't agree with a rule-set to determine if their performance demonstrates that they will take it seriously, if that makes sense at all. At its core it is a performance based ideal to make sure those participating are worthy to participate, IMO. As for the Eucharist actually being the body and blood of Christ, I have never understood the theology about that. Even at the first communion, Christ was there in bodily form but the bread that He broke was a symbol not his actual body. It was symbolism. In addition to this, the idea of Christ's body being broken everytime Mass is conducted doesn't line up with the Scriptures either. I believe it is the book of Hebrews that declares that Christ was sacrificed once for all and that is it. There was one time He was crucified which is why now it should be just as the first communion, symbols representing the body and blood but not the actual body and blood. I believe this is why in Protestant churches the cross is empty because He died once and was raised from the dead, thus leaving the cross empty while in Catholicism basically Christ is re-broken and crucified every Sunday so Christ is hanging as the crucifix resembles. What are your thoughts on this?

cath 8 years, 7 months ago

craigers, Christ is not re-broken every Sunday. The Mass is a re presentation of something that took place 2000 years ago. It is a Mystery. Other faiths are not allowed to partake of the Eucharist because they do not believe what we believe. Now, the sad fact is that many Catholics are so ignorant of what their Faith teaches, they don't have a clue. I think a lot of the problems are based on what people think Catholics believe that are not what they actually believe. We use a crucifix to remind us of Good Friday, without which, there is not Easter Sunday. The sixth chapter of John is a good place to understand the Eucharist and many people left Jesus at that point. It is nice to see someone who actually wants to know where Catholics are coming from, to understand those with different beliefs without slamming them

craigers 8 years, 7 months ago

cath, as you have put it that probably a majority of Catholics don't have a clue as to what their faith teaches then the majority of them would be improperly taking the Eucharist, no? I know you can't guarantee that people are taking it as a true sacrament, but pretty interesting that the Eucharist is limited to those that don't believe what the Catholics believe when probably a majority of the people don't understand the beliefs themselves. This is in no way a dig on Catholicism because it is the same in a lot of churches. People go in and go to church because that is what they were instructed to do, not because they really understand their faith and believe.

I think my biggest grief I can see is that all the rules, rituals, ceremonies, etc get people into a idea of obeying the rules in order to stay in good standing with the church. This is the way some of my family that used to be Catholic feel too. When people get into a ritual that they perform it starts to yield people that feel they are right with God because of what they do instead of what Christ did, especially with things like Pennance (paying for your sin). I bet if you asked people in a number of different organizations why they are going to heaven they would come back with "I go to church every Sunday", "I help at the soup kitchen", and other things that they do. While I do think these types of things should go hand-in-hand with a true genuine faith, they should be the fruit of a person's faith rather than the root. Just as in James where he talks about two different types of people. One says I have works and the other says I will show you my faith by my works. The first is putting the cart before the horse. I think you understand where I'm coming from though. My wife has explained some of the traditions and I think some of the rituals are pretty cool and have a great significant meaning. I for one certainly would love to be able to guarantee that people understand communion/Eucharist when they take it and treat it with respect. I also think it is great to have reverence for Christ and bow at the alter among other things. I just couldn't do something the same every Sunday and prefer the contemporary Charasmatic Christian services and no that doesn't mean snake-handling! jk.

Music_Girl 8 years, 7 months ago

I think the fact that this blog got so much attention and so many negative comments is a sort of proof that the world does "hate" Catholicism.

JackRipper says: "You might consider that the Roman church is much like the Jewish hierarchy that existed in Jesus' time that Jesus totally rejected." Where does it say that Jesus totally rejected it? Actually He said "I come not to destroy the law but to fulfill it" (Matthew 5:17). He actually took the Jewish law and made it more strict. As a side note, Jesus taught that the laws of Moses (the ten commandments) were correct and also he taught the Beatitudes and the 2 greatest commandments (Love God with your whole heart and soul and love your neighbor as yourself). "Dena, once again, if Catholics honestly believed that the bread is Jesus' body, wouldn't there be a whole lot more respect towards it as it is in the tabernacle?" There are many lax catholics who do not fully understand the reverence that should be shown Our Lord. This doesn't make it right. There are many good catholics who are very reverent and respectful to Our Lord in the Eucharist.

The grave misconceptions about the Catholic church greatly saddens me. Part of it is our own fault as we fail to live up to what Jesus wants of us. Part of it is ignorance and how society is so contrary to how Our Lord wants us to live that it seems unreasonable. Regardless of the excuses, there is hope and it is that hope that I cling to.

Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 7 months ago

We all have different opinions concerning religion. Some choose to opt out. No one knows where anyone else is on their faith journey. To have complete confidence is one's faith is not a lack of independence. To be able to state in no uncertain terms what one believes shows that there is a level of thoughtfulness in one's inner life. This is an argument that will be going on when the sun goes nova with no resolution.

Music_Girl 8 years, 7 months ago

craigers, I agree with you and Cath that most people don't understand what the church teaches. I'm sure there are a lot of people receiving communion that shouldn't be but that isn't for me to judge. The education of catholics in their faith is not what it should be. I know in my family there are varying degrees of understanding among the cousins even. It saddens me when I hear the younger kids at CCD or church, etc. ask questions that they "should" know but no one has taken the time to teach them. I also whole heartedly agree that it is not faith alone nor good works alone that will grant us salvation but a combination of both. As a side note, though the flow of the Mass is the same every Sunday, there are different readings, different music and different sermons so it really is different every Sunday. Thank you for being kind and respectful in your comments. :-)

madman 8 years, 7 months ago


I grew-up Methodist and I am now Catholic. I think everyone is entitled to their belief system regarding being a Christian (0r other Religions or Beliefs for that matter). If we all agreed, then we would all belong to one Church right? Our basic fundamental beliefs are the same, for the most part. The belief on the Eucharist shouldn't be a deal breaker. Its a belief and no one is going to win the arguement. (Along with other traditions that take place in all different kinds of Christian Communities.)

Also, who is stopping you anyway from taking communion at a Catholic Church? It is not like if you walk-up to the Priest he is going to say hummm, you look like a Protestant NO Eucharist for you. I assume you don't do it (as I didn't do it until I converted) because you have some respect for Catholics and their belief. I do argee that not all Catholics know the true meaning behind the Eucharist and there are people that shouldn't be taking it but, this goes back to my point of no one is stopping you from taking the Eucharist. If you do and know you shouldn't be, then that is something you have to live with....

Anyway, Catholics are entitled to doing things they way they do things as is your Church.

I think the most important thing is that you obviously go to a Church that matches your values and belief system and I think that is awesome.

craigers 8 years, 7 months ago

madman, just as you have noted I abstain out of respect. I don't need to offend anybody because no doubt somebody would know and then think that I completely disrespected their beliefs. There is a teaching I recently read that really revealed the message of grace that the apostle Paul was teaching and if you or anybody else for that matter doesn't mind having their faith challenged then check out "Grace: The Power of the Gospel" by Andrew Wommack. Very powerful stuff and enlightening.

The tough part for me about different denominations is that the body of Christ would accomplish a lot more if everybody wasn't so concerned about their rituals being right. People look at different denominations and think they are of the devil simply because they see something in their service they either don't agree with or don't know about. Quite often the disagreement is because of ignorance of the scriptures. People say well that isn't for today or that went away with the first century church rather than studying and see if that is what the Scriptures actually say.

denak 8 years, 7 months ago

".....Why would Jesus Christ make it so simple, “LOVE” and nothing more? No ten commandments, no levels of authority, etc. You might consider that the Roman church is much like the Jewish hierarchy that existed in Jesus' time that Jesus totally rejected...."

"...If God speaks through the Bible we really don't need an interpretor unless you don't really trust in God enough to think it wouldn't be revealed by reading it....."

I would like to address some points made in these two statements.

One, Jesus did not say "just to love." Love is important. But think about what love is. Love is not doing anything. Love is not being passive. Would you consider a parent a "loving parent" if that parent never took an interest in the child's life. Never taught the child. Never corrected the child. Or would you think the loving parent is the one who is involved in the child's life. Who loved the child enough to give him or her boundaries. The one who told the child "no". Love isn't "anything goes." If you love something or someone, you get involved. Jesus got involved. He did not just go around and say, "I love you, Peace be with you." and just moved on. Love is an action verb. If you love your fellow man. If you love your community or your country. Then you get involved. You don't allow suffering to continue. You try to change the reason behind it. You try to change the political situation. If you can't do that, then you at least you love your fellow man enough to help alliviate the suffering. That is why Social Justice is considered a Doctrine in the Catholic Church. Social Justice and Love go hand and hand. It isn't just something you say. It is something you feel and more importantly, something you do..

Secondly, no Jesus didn't reject the Jewish hierarchy of the day. Jesus was preaching to Jews. Many of them devout Jews in a time where they were a very opressed people. Jesus took great pains to not allienate the hierachy even though several times, people try to trap himself into saying things that would either peeve off the Romans or the Jewish leaders.

As for the Bible, it isn't a simple book. If one uses the word "need" to be the same as "mandated." Then no, no one is mandated to have a Priest or anyone else interpret it. However, like all subjects, the Bible isn't as simple as reading the words on the page. The New Testament is translated from the ancient Greek and as such the words have multiple meanings. Or a word may be symbolic. Just like one would have an easier time asking a math teacher with help "translating" Quantam Mechanics, so would an individual have an easier time asking a Priest, or a Sister or an "elder" for help understanding the Bible.


cath 8 years, 7 months ago

Craigers, I think a lot of the problems people have with Catholicism is also that they really do not see it practiced very well. You are right, there are many who should not be going to Communion and there are many reasons that is happening. One is poor catechesis on the part of those who should be teaching the Faith. Another is as individuals many do not follow what they claim to profess. Personally, hypocrisy is a huge problem with us Catholics (not just Catholics, but that is who we are discussing). I would leave the Catholic church if I could not agree with her teachings. It is considered a Sacrilege to go to Communion when you shouldn't and I have a much harder time with Catholics doing that than with others who do not know what they are doing. You wrote about those who go to Mass and then think they are going to Heaven no matter what they do. If we really believe what the Church teaches, good works are what would come from that Faith. Again, we do not live up to those beliefs often enough. I think it was Chesterton who said something to the effect that its not that Christianity has been tried and failed, it has been thought difficult and left untried. I really enjoy your questions and your ability to ask them without the vitirol usually seen

jonas_opines 8 years, 7 months ago

"I think the fact that this blog got so much attention and so many negative comments is a sort of proof that the world does “hate” Catholicism."

Actually, I think it does get to the root of the problem here, which is not that the world really hates Catholicism in particular, but that Catholics will notice those that do, and think that makes them different in some way.

Seriously, scroll down ANY thread on this forum, and you will find tons of comments throwing out vociferous hatred in any given direction. (some of them, of course, thrown out by the very author of this particular blog) There is absolutely nothing unique about the comments on this thread.

In the same way that there is nothing very special or unusual about the attacks against Catholics. Pick any group, Islam, Baptists, Jews, Blacks, Whites, Mexicans, Gays, Liberals, Conservatives, Atheists etc. etc. etc., and All of them are frequently attacked to the same extent that Catholicism is. Why are we forgetting that here?

jimmyjms 8 years, 7 months ago

"As for the Bible, it isn't a simple book."

Or true, in the least.

So there's that.

tonymontana 8 years, 7 months ago

blah blah blah christians blah blah blah blah

Jersey_Girl 8 years, 7 months ago

Okay, I'll start off with the fact that I have skipped all the posts to my own reaction. Perhaps the Archbishop should concider the one true Mosque (why does the Catholic church think their church is the one true church deserving of being a proper noun?). After all, I'd say the Muslim religion is the most hated in the world right now, not the Catholic. Pedophile priests have been forgotten in the wave of fear and hatred of Muslims. Frickin' Catholics. They make their priests and nuns take vows of poverty, yet Vatican City is both the world's smallest and richest country. Maybe if they bothered to spread that weath around, helping their own members instead of insisting they cough up 10% of their earnings to further line their coffers, I'd give a hoot. You want a corrupt government, one doesn't get much more corrupt than The Church.

cath 8 years, 7 months ago

Where do you get your stats that the Vatican is the worlds richest country? It is the smallest, I will give you that. Lots of priests do not take a vow of poverty, those who belong to specific orders do. And the Church does much in the way of charity to those who are less fortunate. Schools, hopsitals, homeless are just a few areas that the Church does a better job than most. It would depend on what part of the world you are talking about to who would be the most hated group. Jonas had a good post just a couple posts back that addresses that. Lots of people fit into the most hated group. And lots of people always want to be seen as victims.

RogueThrill 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, when evangelicals refer to the Catholic Church as the "Whore of Babylon" you quickly see that they might not be that shined upon by less intelligent Americans. Of course, extremist protestant faiths will always have issue with Catholicism.

The you have other issues, like the Sun not being the center of the solar system until the later part of the 20th Century. Or Papal declarations against prophylactics as a method of increasing the prevention of HIV/AIDS in Africa. Or the Papacy claiming gays are welcome in the Church only as a means to "fix them".

You have a combination of feuding dating to the age of Luther and a body of worship almost completely devoid of modernism.

They would be more popular if they would bring back plenary indulgences.

Stephen Prue 8 years, 7 months ago

My father was born in 1914 and in 1920 his parents were forced to send him off to the boarding church school which was run by the catholics. His hair was cut and he was forbidden to speak his first language, lakota. He was told that lakota beliefs were of the devil and the catholics god was the only true god and was coerced into being a catholic as was his parents (food supplies for poor indian families were tied to church membership). If a child misbehaved he or she received physical punishment. But Dad learned to box and was a golden gloves champ and even fought professional a few times. The catholics taught him numerous skills that were very beneficial to him in his adult life. My point, there is good and bad in everything and the catholics aren't the only horse in the race so choose careful who you make the only way to heaven. Many roads to the same place probably, I like the scenic route.

Frank Dorsey 8 years, 7 months ago

So, "Big Prune," are you claiming that the more hated the church is, the more likely it is to be the "True Church?" By this logic, it seems to me that the Westboro Baptist Church, then, is much more likely to be the real deal than the Catholic Church. I'll bet far fewer people would defend the Phelps crew than the Catholic Church, ergo, they are the true church. QED.

Also, telling people in the midst of an aids epidemic in Africa that Condoms are a sin is unconscionable.

Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 7 months ago

People have wrote a lot about what bothers them about the Catholic Church. Some of these are the things that attracted me to it in the first place in 2002, the mass, the rituals, the hierarchy. I don't know anything about any Protestant church. I have never been to one, and never plan to. I do not intend to apologise for what happened in the Church ninety years ago or as far back as Galileo. You can find Boy Scout leaders that have done very bad things. Same is true of any group you care to name. I find it amusing that so many of the "others" are so fasinated by the Catholic Church that they claim to not understand or even to hate. Rather like Hitlers Germany that was so obsessed with Jews.

blindrabbit 8 years, 7 months ago

I do not espouse any form of organized faith; but I have always felt that the Catholic form of Christianty is most hypocritical. Most of the Catholics I know, adopt a kind-of "pick-and-choose" approach to following the tenants and dogma of The Church. And yet many Catholics feel that Protestants have "bastardized" the religion. Probably too much doctrine for American Catholics in the out-of-touch Papacy

blindrabbit 8 years, 7 months ago

Irish: You comment about "others" being fascinated with the Catholic faith is no-doubt do in large part to the fact that it is the only major faith in the U.S. that is stuffed down the craw of everyone else. Other than some of the televangilists of the far right Protestants, you see vey little about other faith's in the news. No need to convert everyone nor to wear one's faith out in public.

cath 8 years, 7 months ago

none2, I am refering to doctrine, not changeable teachings. If I did not believe in the Real Presence I could not stay and go up to Communion which is an act that says I believe what the Church believes. That would be hypocritical and sacrilegious. I understand your criticism, but some things are changeable, others are not. JPII apologized for many different things the people in the Church have done wrong over the centuries.

cath 8 years, 7 months ago

I do not know the individuals you are writing about so I have no idea at what level they would grasp a concept. I am not referring to a very unusual situation. I am referring to Catholics who understand and yet do whatever they want and still think they have a right to the Eucharist.

motocross 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm a Christian, NOT a Catholic by any means.... I only give worship and Reverance to the Almighty Jesus! NOwhere does it say to bow to priests, bishops, pope, anyone BUT Jesus.

Also, just so you know. JESUS is OFF the cross, he lives, he didn't die.
It's not a religion, it's a relationship. In love

Jersey_Girl 8 years, 7 months ago

Irish - so ironic that you mention Hitler. He was raised Roman Catholic.

Music_Girl 8 years, 7 months ago

Jersey_Girl, just because someone was raised a certain way doesn't mean they actually believe or adhere that way. If that is true then all serial killer's parents should be help responsible for the killer's actions because they obviously were raised that way.

There are many people who claim to be catholic and whom do not adhere to what they claim to believe in. Just because you know a few "bad apples" doesn't mean they represent the whole church. There are poor examples in every group but that doesn't mean everyone in that group or the concepts behind that group are bad. For example, a couple doctors butcher procedures and don't care about their patients. That doesn't mean that all doctors are bad or that the concepts of medicine are bad.

cath 8 years, 7 months ago

Yes, Hitler was Catholic. So were many others who gave their lives to hide and save Jews from the Nazis. They followed the Church's teaching. Hitler didn't.

dandelion 8 years, 7 months ago

"So, “Big Prune,” are you claiming that the more hated the church is, the more likely it is to be the “True Church?”"

Big Prune didn't write this. He kind of cited it by mentioning Fulton Sheen, but he has copied and pasted word for word Archbishop Sheen. Check out Ralph Reed's link above. There is a link to the whole essay, which sheds a completely different light on this subject. Big Prune has started this whole conversation from a quote, that was taken out of context. I think you have scroll down some to find it.

Big Prune, this is borderline plagiarism, you know.

Jersey_Girl 8 years, 7 months ago

Music Girl - Irish wrote "I find it amusing that so many of the “others” are so fasinated by the Catholic Church that they claim to not understand or even to hate. Rather like Hitlers Germany that was so obsessed with Jews."

She is the one who made the comparison, I simply pointed out the irony of the comparison as Hitler was raised Catholic. I didn't say anything about Hitler's Catholic upbringing being anyway responsible for his Germany.

motocross 8 years, 7 months ago


You seems to focus more on him being there... He has RISEN! He's alive and well. Do not attack me saying that I do not understand His Sacrifice...
Do not attempt to be Holier than Thou... I do not have to say Hail Mary, etc to be forgiven my friend. I go straight to the source of forgiveness. That's what the Lord says, so I do.

hportiers 8 years, 7 months ago

It was expressed as well by G.K. Chesterton: The Catholic Church is surrounded by hatred, a "halo of hatred."

The ressentiment, indignation, patronizing self-assurance, and all species of hatred here alone corroborate the observation of Abp Sheen. Not only does the secular world condemn the Catholic Church, but the Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, and other religious communions are no less vehement in their condemnations. This is a unique distinction.

Regarding the 'sacramental' necessity of the Church, Christ said to His Apostles, "Who hears you hears me" (not "who knows the NT Scriptures..."), and "Whose sins you forgive are forgiven" (not only, even if sometimes appropriate, "who repents in the ear of God alone...")

If Jesus of Nazareth appointed Apostolic mediators in the world He found, are we less needy than the Christians of that age? I am as needy as the most wretched creature of that age or any other.

Jersey_Girl 8 years, 7 months ago

Frankly, Big Prune sounds like the class bully trying to make himself feel better about himself after beating up the little kids and taking their lunch money.

Leslie Swearingen 8 years, 6 months ago

I was trying to understand why people are obsessed by those they profess to hate. I would have a lot of trouble with a non-Catholic taking communion. After a year of instruction we learned about communion and the right way to do it. You don't just walk up and take the wafer and drink the wine. This is a ritual and so must be done in a certain way.

Jersey_Girl 8 years, 6 months ago

Irish - I don't hate Catholics. I strongly dislike the Catholic church. And you have a problem with me taking communion at my (Catholic) grandmother's funeral in honor of her, as requested by my Catholic-raised-non-practicing mother? Interesting. My mother thinks she killed my grandmother by sprinkling holy water on my grandmother's bed herself after the priest left.

Stuart Evans 8 years, 6 months ago

Irish (Irish Swearingen) says… I was trying to understand why people are obsessed by those they profess to hate. I would have a lot of trouble with a non-Catholic taking communion. After a year of instruction we learned about communion and the right way to do it. You don't just walk up and take the wafer and drink the wine. This is a ritual and so must be done in a certain way.

so this is a superiority thing for you. you feel better than others because you know the "right" way to eat a cracker & drink a sip of really bad wine. you should know.. i'm not a catholic. wasn't raised that way, but I have had communion. you should be pretty upset right about now. i've drank the blood of your sacred cow..err profit.

of course, it means nothing to me, for I know now that there never was a Jesus Christ. There was nothing ever written by anyone who met a man named Jesus Christ. in fact, he is nothing more than a ripped off pagan worship of the sun. That's truly the funniest part about all the ritual and pomp that goes with Catholicism, everything you do is made up by kings or ripped off from pagans.

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