LJWorld.com weblogs bearded_gnome

Of pigs, jokes, and marriage.


Yes, after the “lawyer walks into a bar” blog, I have learned that apparently I am a pig. And probably you are too, if you’re a man. Read on, and then you can comment on this yourself: are you also a pig?
Am I a pig?
Are the men who joked on the Thursday story about in-laws becoming outlaws with a knife also pigs then?

That lawyer blog (see link below) was written to celebrate that one of our fellows in this online community is marrying, and marrying a lawyer. Well, according to one posteress who sent me a rather nasty e-mail, I am a pig and don’t have a decent respect for other people, because I posted that! Now, the guy in our community enjoyed the humor on the blog, and said it was fine. But this posteress also made some negative insinuation about him regarding that too.

This posteress was expressing concern for the feelings of the bride-to-be. Honestly, if this posteress had been around when I got married, I think her ears would have painfully turned inside out, and not from the “piggish” men, but from jokes made by my wife’s –female- relatives. Those jokes were very sexual and were about a couple of my personal characteristics.

Where I come from and what I’m used to, there’s always a lot of humor when somebody gets married. When my father got married (yes that was the 50’s) his male relatives pulled a “shivaree,” where they set up all kinds of surprises for the newly married couple to find on their wedding night. This included the typical short sheeting of the wedding bed, changing the content of the groom’s shaving cream can, and other gags. So, when I got married, those jokes sure didn’t bother me, and I told my wife to just laugh with her female relatives.

Several weeks ago, this posteress wasn’t so concerned about the feelings of another when she organized a campaign to ostracize one poster who disagreed with what many of us were doing on a Marion-related blog that got semi-disappeareddeded (semi-deleted). After her nastygram to me, she’s probably already queenbeeing such a campaign against me, or will after the posting of this blog.

I posted the lawyer blog last week, and got her e-mail last week. I’ve waited one week for an apology or something, but nothing has come from her. That member of our online posting community isn't so thin-skinned, and his wife-to-be wouldn't be a successful lawyer if she were thin skinned.

Tim Allen, in his scholarly work “home improvement,” thoroughly demonstrated that all of us men do have an inner pig. But I certainly do not think I am a pig for putting up the “a lawyer walks into a bar” blog. It was simply meant in fun.

Here is an unedited excerpt from that posteress’ e-mail: “ … as I realize that you seem to hold a low level of decent respect for others in the same way my ex did. As my friend put it: Men really are pigs, they choose to ignore social decencies because it suits them, then band together to try to justify their disgraces to others, and thus ignore their consciences. He said it took him until he was in his mid 50's to become far less of a pig himself, … “

---So, are you a pig, sir? Am I? What about the humor that happened when you got married?


bearded_gnome 8 years ago

here's the link to that lawyer blog: http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/beard...

there are some funny jokes, except we didn't get much of the jokes that lawyers tell each other.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

here's the link to thursday's story, lots of jokes about two families about to be united in marriage, or perhaps not, now.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

and please note that I did not identify the posteress who got so intensely bent out of shape because I posted the lawyer blog.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

It seems they put Katsup into my father's shaving cream can.
apparently some of the shivaree "gags" were even more unpleasant.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

Let me start out by saying that I'm not here to trash, insult or attack women. Instead, I want people to better understand that men and women are more alike than they think when it comes to sex and sins of the flesh. In order to do this, I will show, by example, how women behave in the exact manner that they accuse only men of behaving: like pigs. an unchallenged myth There seems to be a growing consensus among women that "all men are pigs." Every day women complain about how men are unfaithful, lying, dirty-minded pigs, whose major blood flow spends most of its time at the wrong part of their bodies.

But the fact remains that there are just as many deceiving and unfaithful women out there as there are men. So why is it that only the men have earned such a swinish reputation? The answer lies in the difference between how men and women communicate with one another. it's a wordy game It is a known fact that women are natural communicators (they love to express their feelings openly and very often). Whenever it comes to voicing their opinions, women more than men are the first to sit on the panel of a talk show (Jer-ry! Jer-ry!), or complain to their girlfriends about their failed or unhappy relationships.

Men are not as vocal as women, and tend to bottle up their emotions a lot more than their female counterparts. Men -- especially due to pride issues -- don't always communicate the woes of their relationships. Obviously you're going to hear more from her side of the story than his. But the fact remains that you have just as many women engaging in extramarital affairs as you do men. The only difference is that men don't talk about their women being unfaithful. barriers are broken There used to be a time when a woman's sexual desires were held hostage by her own body and society's condemnation. That is to say that the consequences of being promiscuous were more severe than they are today.

In the days of way back, a woman held the burden of caring for a child if she became pregnant, or risked ruining her reputation. Women did not have the luxury of abortion clinics or birth control . So once they got knocked up, that was it. There was no more hiding. For this reason a lot of women kept their legs crossed -- due to consequences rather than moral convictions.

Nowadays, women have more leeway when it comes to sexual freedom. What with birth control and the ability to support themselves, women's autonomy has been awakened and they have been released from the shackles that at one time kept them from giving in to their sexual desires.

Because of this, the number of women who have multiple partners or commit adultery has skyrocketed over the years. Men cheat and sleep around, yes, but this is what gave women the justification to call us pigs. But now that they have caught up to us on the "spread your love" scale, they are no longer entitled to throw this in our faces.

Men want sex, women want money...  

Catreona 7 years, 10 months ago

In my limited experience, women want security. In practical terms, of course, this does involve money, but it comprehends a whole complex of factors and entities.

Also in my limited experience, men are more interested in sex than are women. Still, this whole discussion seems to me to be based on a radical oversimplification. Both the female and the male of the species are complex beings, driven by many-stranded, often tangled motivations, impulses and needs. To boil all of human life down to, "Men want sex and women want money" seems naive in the extreme.

Of course, I understand that you are responding to a nasty-gram. Such things are not noted for their depth of thought or breadth of vision. And it clearly upset you - your anger is palpable. Still, you're allowing her to dictate the terms of the debate. I know from experience, that's never a winning strategy.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

the above comes from: http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith/59_dating_advice.html

where you can read the rest.

Mackinnon and two other feminist "thinkers" popularized the myth that because of evolutionary heritage, all men are potential perpetrators of rape. Mackinnon has stated repeatedly that all heterosexual sex is violence. thus, according to these radical feminists, men are pigs ...

Liberty275 8 years ago

Oink oink. Cars are better than women anyway. Who cares what they think?

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

l275, so you say you are a pig?

and well yes, I think cars are often more reliable than womyn!

Liberty275 8 years ago

I've been called worse. Pig isn't a word I'd take offense to.

And cars aren't just more reliable than womyns, they are more fun too.

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

You frickin' PIG! No just kidding. I actually agree with what you say. And Liberty - keep telling yourself that. I guess I am just as much a pig as you are, xD

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

Really. really don't care what the feminist think. I want my men to act like men not women. However I better get the same pay for the same job,

Liberty275 8 years ago

Given your attitude, I'd probably actually care what you think. You aren't militant or sniveling and seem to hold your own very well. Can we clone you?

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

the people who know me would probably try to have you committed for that statement. :)

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

Pagan-idolator, well there's a critical question here: does your comment imply that you are a woman?

I agree that an equally qualified woman with equal experience and equal time on the job should get equal pay. however, I surely don't want bureaucrats deciding pay rates!!!

yes, in the past five decades our culture has had a growing trend of attacking traditional masculinity, chickifying the culture and devaluing masculinity.

Men should act like men.

Katara 8 years ago

"Men should act like men".

This is an interesting comment considering there is no cultural universal regarding man behavior. Each culture has its own definition of what defines "manliness" and the man's role in society. How do you decide how a man should act when there is such a variation?

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

PA, since it seems you are female I thought I'd ask, and please note my long quote above:

are women just as likely to be pigs* as men?

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

I am female and yes women can also be pigs Katara - sorry, I don't have an answer to that one.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

From a blog: Dr. Helen

Commentary on popular culture and society, from a (mostly) psychological perspective

Friday, September 25, 2009 "All Men are Pigs!" This is the greeting I received at the checkout line at the Bearden Earth Fare in Knoxville yesterday. After work, I was driving by, had a coupon and thought I would stop by to pick up something for dinner. At the cash register, the women who worked there were congregated around talking, and finally after a few moments, the cashier started to ring up my order and stated to me that she had to impart her words of wisdom that "All Men are Pigs!" to the younger female grocery bagger. The younger woman, a petulant looking twenty-something yelled back, "Yeah, all Men are Pigs!" and started to laugh.

If you have been reading this blog, you know I was not a happy camper. I said to the younger woman, "All men are not pigs" to which she replied,"Well, they are pigs...but I guess not all are, some are okay." To which I replied, "I bet there is no way you would have stood here and said "All Women are Pigs! There is no way you would say that in public." Her response? "Well, we're all pigs." Great, so she thinks her customers are pigs too.

I could tell the older cashier understood that they had made a mistake. But after all, they were in their comfort zone. A health food store where organic food spelled liberalism and an intolerance for those people male or conservative. Grocery bagger girl quickly changed the subject to "paper or plastic." I stared at her as I got my bags and she looked at me with a mixture of intimidation, confusion and perhaps, hatred. I left. But I hope that next time these women feel free to play out their male-bashing meme at work in front of the general public, they will remember that not all of their female customers agree with the good old girl network.

Update: Earth Fare responds in the comments:

Dear Ms. Smith:

We are so sorry that you encountered this type of behavior in one of our stores. We respect all of our customers and are saddened that you had to deal with this sort of behavior.

We are dealing with the problem now. And, thank you for bringing this to our attention.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

Tous les hommes, sont des cochons, as a well remembered french prof use to say.. or "all men are pigs" in English - empower the feminist movement with this poignant statement, so delicate and subtle.

Cafe Press offers T-shirts with "all men are pigs" on it.

thought to support feminism.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

here's the link for that blog, it has way over a hundred comments, some great ones from men: http://drhelen.blogspot.com/2009/09/all-men-are-pigs.html

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

My favorite of the comments under Dr. Helen's blog [above]: GawainsGhost said...

Welcome to the wonderful world of the American male, Dr. Helen. I've actually been on dates with girls like this.

She seemed nice enough, at first. But while we were having dinner, she launched off into the exact same tirade. "All men are pigs."

Wait a minute. You expect me to get dressed, pick you up, drive you around, buy you dinner, all so you can bitch about it?

In ethology (the science of animal behavior), this is what is known as a fixed action pattern. It's an autonomic response. Stimulus-response. The stimulus is the idea of the existence of men. The response is to bitch about it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've been saying it since I was twelve, first girlfriend I ever had. The modern American girl has a problem. It's a real problem, it's an attitude problem, and it's her problem. It's not my problem, because I know how to deal with it.

I called the waiter, demanded the check, paid it, and walked out the restaurant. Let her take a cab home. And never have anything to do with that sorry excuse for a woman ever again. It's very simple really. Do not put up with it, not for any reason, not under any circumstances, not at any time. Just leave.

If it had been me, I would have demanded to speak to the manager. And I would have asked him or her directly, do you expect me to patronize this store, purchase products here, pay this stupid girl's salary, so she can stand there and insult me?

I'd have dumped the groceries on the counter and walked out, never to return.

If more men were like me, the modern American girl would start to get a clue real quick, because no man would have anything to do with her. No one would call her, no one would date her, no one would go to bed with her, no one would marry her, no one would even talk to her. And then what?

Well, she'd dump her bad attitude and start conducting herself with some sense of decorum, if she didn't want to spend the rest of her life alone and depressed. That's what.

Katara 8 years ago

I will point out, bearded_gnome, that this blog & the posts you have put up sound pretty misogynistic and if your goal was to prove that you are not, well, you did not meet that goal. In fact, I think you made yourself sound a lot worse.

I think you have ideas about how men & women should behave & I don't believe that qualifies you as a "pig" or a sexist but putting up examples of women's bad behavior really doesn't do much to defend your behavior.

In honor of Mothers' Day, I will leave you with this quote:

"If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?"

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

well Kat, I think you know I am certainly not misogynistic.
and much of the material in the posts below the blog have been qualified by myself or the original authors as not representing all women, but instead representing some women. and note it is a woman, Dr. Helen, who wrote that blog entry above.

defending against "most men are pigs" directed at me does not make me misogynistic.

we have a word for being antiwoman, misogynistic, what's the equivalent for women who are equally antimen?
the lack of such a term implies avalue preferance I think. so somehow it is more acceptable to say "most men are pigs" than to be misogynistic? I bet you wouldn't agree with that Katara.

and, isn't it fine to make jokes before a wedding, kinda an old tradition.

Katara 8 years ago

The defense of "men are pigs" is not "well, women are pigs too."

Just because you are not aware of a word (such as misanderist) does not mean it does not exist. You are making assumptions based on your biases and eagerness to point out that the other sex has its share of jerks too.

I don't believe you are misogynistic but this blog and the posts you chose to use as examples of women being pigs (and they really are not good examples regardless whether a not a woman is the author of them) makes you look like you are.

Perhaps explaining why men are not pigs would have been a better approach?

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

PA and Kat.

PA, I certainly think women are just as capable of being pigs as men. thanks for the female perspective here.
and I am interested in your comment about men acting like men?
do you mean you want a man to exhibit masculine traits traditional for our society, i.e. courage, singular work focus, high energy, defending women, etc.? just naming a few.

Kat, "Men should act like men".

This is an interesting comment considering there is no cultural universal regarding man behavior. Each culture has its own definition of what defines "manliness" and the man's role in society. How do you decide how a man should act when there is such a variation?

---Kat my comments ref changes in our society over recent decades. while we have had many improvements, devaluing masculinity is not one of the positives.
since I am not a masai [sp?] warrior, I would not presume to comment on their society unless I were an thropologist with a ph.d. and a lot of gaul.

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

I don't wish for men to want to join in on my nights out with my girlfriends. I don't care for overly sensitive men. Maybe one thing it would help you to know is that I have a high amount of so-called male traits. I think chick flicks are stupid, etc. I only want men to defend me if I am being attacked by another male. I don't care if they open a door for me or light my cigarette, but I also don't expect it either. I like them to be an equal partner in household finances and chores. My husband will do dishes and laundry and I will mow the lawn. We don't stand around and argue about who is supposed to do what by dint of their sex. I don't mind low brow humor and find much of it funny.

Katara 8 years ago

Sorry to be picky but that doesn't really answer the question about men being men. What is an overly sensitive man supposed to be? Is a man not supposed to show emotions? Or too much emotion in comparison to women? Why is that bad? Or a negative thing?

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

I can't speak for everyone but I know what is too overly sensitive for my taste. You know me IRL so you have an inside to my personality somewhat. Yes I like men to show emotions - just not drama. I don't like overly sensitive women either for that matter. Perhaps its just my own personal taste and each person needs to decide for themselves what is overly emotional and what constitutes pig behavior.

Katara 8 years ago

I get what you are saying. But yeah, I know you are more on the individual level and go with the flow - what works for you may not work for others & vice versa. Bearded_gnome is more about the societal level.

It is also hard to tell when one uses the word "pig" if they mean slovenly behavior or boorish behavior. Context is key in a lot of these phrases, KWIM?

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

My take is it was referring to boorish behavior. Yes context is key

Liberty275 8 years ago

"What is an overly sensitive man supposed to be?"

Look in the mirror. You seem smart enough to figure it out from there.

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

I can't stand being called the "little woman". RAWR! So I don't want to be subordinate to a male either. I'm no shrinking violet.

denak 8 years ago

Just to point out a little inconsistancy: If you are no shrinking violent, why do you want men to defend you? Why don't you take steps to defend yourself. Why leave your safety and well being up to an availiable male?

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

If you would have read the post above this one you would see that I would only want a male to defend me if I were under attack from another male. I can be pretty feisty but don't think I could hold my own against someone that much stronger. I suppose I could take martial arts or something but never really felt the drive to do so. Sorry - I am just not a hard core feminist. I believe the sexes to be different - that doesn't mean they aren't equal. I like men - I don't think all of them are pigs. Piggish behavior may mean different things to different people.

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

See just having the picture of me attempting martial arts or anything like it and I can't get to sleep now.

Liberty275 8 years ago

Are you suggesting she pack heat?

independant1 8 years ago

Oink Oink

A wife is the cheapest thing you can get in the long run in the female line. (Will Rogers)

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

Oh I don't know about that independant,

independant1 8 years ago



spit, scratch, gimme the clicker

Katara 8 years ago

I don't believe that our culture has devalued masculinity at all. The definition of masculinity has changed. Even then you still provide no definition for the guidelines to masculinity. What is it? Define what you believe to be masculinity in our culture (which BTW has many different subcultures that may define masculinity differently).

Actually it is the Wodaabe that you are thinking of and what does French anthropology have to do with anything? ;)

http://video.kids.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/kids/people-places-kids/nigeria-wodaabe-kids.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1997_276-18A_Yaake_demonstration.jpg

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

Hey! I never said I didn't like beautiful men! Do I think a man being a knuckle dragger is required for manhood? Nope. Do I think men have to be stalwart and silent in the face of emotional distress and grief - nope. I suppose each person has their definition of manhood and there is no way I can define it for anyone but myself. And don't lie to me Katara - did that video make you hot? In the Wiccan community the male has traditionally been VERY devalued. It caused us to lose 2 generations of High Priests. The male God of the Wicca was largely ignored and men were only allowed in groups if they were subservient to women. Perhaps that has caused my belief in men being devalued. So perhaps my definition of masculinity is a strong male who doesn't have to lord over a women but also wont tolerate being called a pig just because of the genitalia he happens to have. And no criers. Just kiddin'.

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

By the way - man purses - not masculine. So make them stop that.

Katara 8 years ago

That was in response to bearded_gnome. I still don't quite have this threaded thing down yet.

The Wodaabe are definitely a good looking people - very graceful.

I am wondering if in the Wiccan community, if the male being devalued is a more "recent" thing. I don't belong so I can't vouch for the traditional oral history being passed down to members but the literature (nothing really about modern Wicca) I have read gives the male & female differing yet equal roles (i.e. the male has his strengths & the female has hers & they generally are complimentary in nature rather than oppositional).

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

Yes they are very graceful I agree. When Wicca started gaining force in the 70's it kind of got wrapped up in the feminist movement. If you read Starhawk she is very much into excluding males. It is only now that the pendulum is swinging back to the balanced middle. I still meet a lot of men who don't feel like they would be welcome joining the religion. Many people still don't realize there is a God in Wicca. So its not too recent but the older texts don't contain it and thankfully is starting to be rectified. I am probably very acutely aware of the problem given my profession. I run into it every day. Men, men come back! We were only playing! XD

Katara 8 years ago

I don't get how people equate the feminist movement with man-hating. There are definitely some anti-men women out there but it goes a lot against what feminism stands for. It is much like equating the Tea Party folks with all conservatives or Fred Phelps with all Christians. There are always extremists and they bastardize the message many movements are trying to convey.

It is good to hear that change is happening and that it is positive within Wicca.

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

I will be the first to admit that I have a bias against some feminists A lot of that is due to the people I have interacted with over the years. I try really hard not to stereotype people but it is something I struggle with. The feminist movement had a lot of positive change and maybe the problem is I didn't have to live through "the bad ol' days"..

independant1 8 years ago

note to self - donate murse to salvation army, save receipt, take deduction for donated/thrift shop value on '10 taxes

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

note to self - track down independant and make him take out the trash, mow the lawn, defend my honor and pay all the bills while I sit around and be all fragile like. If he whines taunt him with phrases like "ya gonna cry little sissy boy, huh, ya gonna cry?"

Katara 8 years ago

That's too funny! I had to read that book for a course I took. I can't remember what the name of the course was now though. It might have been one about American folklore and tall tales.

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

That would be a hel!! of a class! You need to come out and see us soon.

Katara 8 years ago

It was an awesome class! The professor was a riot. The Appalachian tales and jokes are just as good as the Ozark ones.

You are absolutely correct. I need to get out & see you soon! I'm trying to figure when I can make that happen. PM and let me know when the next fundraiser is happening.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

whoa! somebody got disappeareddeded and I didn't see his/her/its posts: says "54 posts" but list of like 28. dernit.
I wonder if it were my cuzin harvey leon, got hisself throwed off.

or, was it marioni/cyberknight/1614kentucky?

Just getting back to this blog, hardly looked at ljworld for two days, there was mother's day, sunday the day of worship...I am a caregiver ... but then of course I am a pig.

I suppose there is freedom in being a pig.
"I am pig, hear me roar!"

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

L275 said: I've been called worse. Pig isn't a word I'd take offense to.

And cars aren't just more reliable than womyns, they are more fun too.

---well, okay but frankly with the right female, I think one can have more fun with her than with a car, at least for a short time!. and of course a car can figure in it. a lot of guys try to use their cars to get the attention of womyns, too. and the noble pig himself, he doesn't think being called a pig is a down.

"womyns" lol.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

I1, Will Rogers was pretty bright, but I'll tell ya', a wife usually don't come cheap!!!

Pagan Idolator, you seem like a pretty cool babe, and I agree: can we clone you?

indeed the two sexes are equal, just different, that's my view.

when someone spreads the "most men are pigs" line, well it is a generalized attack on half the population for who they are.

now, in my faith men and women do have different jobs, but are expressly identified as equal in value and equal in the sight of God.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

Katara, please look over the items I have again. the item from Dr. Helen, besides being from a woman discusses the very issue you are raising: if it is rong to diminish women, then it is wrong to diminish men too.

DIST thanks for the word, I've never heard of that.

*and yes Kat, that does make a point.

nearly all of us know aboutmisogyny and how evil it is. how many even knew that there is such a word and a concept for the other gender?

yes, that does imply a value judgment. we have a name well practiced in its use for condemnation, and another term/concept very very rarely ever used.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

PA: pagan_idolator

note to self - track down independant and make him take out the trash, mow the lawn, defend my honor and pay all the bills while I sit around and be all fragile like. If he whines taunt him with phrases like "ya gonna cry little sissy boy, huh, ya gonna cry?"

---very LOL! you forgot: you sit around: painting your nails and watching soap operas.

Kat, first about definition of masculinity. above I asked PA because she said men should "act like men," kinda raising that topic.

I believe that through ADHD, the usual high energy of many boys has been made into pathology and hit with drugs.

thus, what is normal for boys becomes bad in the societal assumptions.

in the media, especially movies, it is rare to find a male hero today who is not: a racial/ethnic minority; disabled; suffering from some great trauma; or terribly introspective. now, personally I am more introspective than most men but the lack of it is fairly typical for traditional american masculinity across several ethnic groups.

and my ref to the tribe, was because you were making a worldwide ref and I wanted to humorously make it clear that I was speaking of my own american culture.

pagan_idolator 8 years ago

I don't think I could watch a soap opera - not even to torture independant.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

Pywacket (anonymous) says…

We have been known to play a few jokes at weddings and even helped with a shivaree once. I remember putting cornflakes in the bed and Saran wrap stretched across the toidy, under the seat. There were other nefarious deeds, but it was a long time ago..

That couple was foolish enough to have their reception at their home, with everyone knowing that they were staying there on their wedding night. Most people these days leave for their honeymoon, so you can't get away with any of that fun stuff.

I can tell from this and the lawyer joke thread that Gnome & some of you others would dearly love one of my all-time favorite books: http://www.amazon.com/Pissing-Snow-Ot...

Some of these tales bring tears to my eyes, I laugh so hard--even after reading the book for the 10th time... They are VERY bawdy--okay, they are downright filthy, some of them. And some will be familiar takes on old jokes, but some are utterly, astoundingly unique. The beauty of it is that Randolph was a serious scholar of Ozark culture and he gives a little background on these--identifying where and when he collected the tale. So if there are any prudes about, asking what you're reading, you can truthfully tell them you're reading a collection of American folklore. They don't have to know it's X-rated.

---Yeah!!! I should look for that one!

yes, that's a shivaree! oh man!

in my father's case, he and mom were going to spend their wedding night at a small roadside motel in a very little oklahoma town. apparently my uncle had a talk with the owner who helped them set it up! that was part of the great surprise.
and I should add, this is the redneck side of my family.

bearded_gnome 8 years ago

btw Kat, by implication "all men are pigs" or the statement "most men are pigs" implies that women are not, so that's why some of the quoted material above.

just as if to prove my point: Anna has a new stripper blog, rather more of advertising than a blog.

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