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Study shows "true character" of Greenies--more added

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Greenies apparently really lie, cheat, steal, lack altruism, according to a well operated study with good experimental design.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h7Dfq54tFVb0RNXErzMP1FwxlUDA

Probably not much difference between Canadian greenies and American greenies, locally such as Merrill.

"Green shoppers" displayed some serious deficits in ethics across the tsks involved in this University of Toronto study.

and yes, global warming is now totally debunked because of the "hide the decline" e-mails, data showing that warming didn't occur in the past ten years, and the Russian IEA says that its climate data was cherry picked.

But then, these folks will lie cheat and steal, so what will they do next to maintain the myth of global warming?

Comments

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

The other point:

This study was done on students - hardly a representative sample of the population. Shouldn't caution be used in extrapolating from that group?

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Mel Briscoe 4 years, 3 months ago

i must be missing something here... who, in the first place, said that "greenies" were supposed to be altruistic, morally and ethically superior people? i must've missed the memo on that one.

if people use the "greenie" label to make themselves feel better by looking down on those folks who don't recycle, reduce, reuse and those folks who don't buy organic then i guarantee you they will find other reasons to look down on people even if all of the sudden everyone turns green.

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Kirk Larson 4 years, 3 months ago

BeardedGnome says... Often lost in the enviro-hysteria is that today our air is cleaner and our rivers are much cleaner, than they were 40 years ago.

Thanks to the "Greenies".

Your welcome.

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jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

Just a thought:

Perhaps the reason that folks who bought the "greener" products gave less money to others is that those products tend to cost more, unfortunately.

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 3 months ago

Irish, I thank you for posting though I disagree with your description of the Merc. yes, Greenies shop there a lot. and yes often the "organic" foods are a ripoff. But the Merc has some good folks working there. And it is a good source for some things you can't get at Wal-mart. The supplements/vitamin/minerals section is good and well run. some items in their deli are quite good. and they're a good source of fish.

If you had a bad experience, try again on another day.

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 3 months ago

Katara: I'm incredibly surprised and disappointed to see you stoop to Marion's normal level. That really sucks. You get to like a person and then they do something like this.

---Okay Kat, Reference to Merrill is because he is far and away the most recognized Greenie posting on these threads.

I still like you, though you're rather offensive here and especially in your later post. I have been open about my cynicism regarding global warming,.

In one of my recent blogs, one hyperventilated poster repeated the very tired liberal prejudice holding that if you are conservativ, by definition you must be scientifically illiterate.

I didn't ask Maryon to post the entire article, and anybody could follow the link I provided. it was thoughtful of him to post the text...once in a great while he does do helpful things.

I also think he would choke on your characterization that I was channeling him!

Look at the end of the article itself, the writer quotes the prof in saying that this is about moralizing a behavior, in this case "green shopping."

The Greenies do moralize all the time. And please read my last couple of posts as well as Crichton's comments.

*Oh by the way, there's a lot more Crichton said, I only excerpted the beginning of his California speech from '03. The link is there.

Hey Kat, I still like you, though I know you're on the left, I know you're not one of the loonie fringe left.

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 3 months ago

Sorry Don, I hit the button too fast! I appreciate clean air and like to breathe it.

I think we should do what we can.

Unfortunately, manyGreenies do not care about the human misery their demanded actions cause. For example, many post on here panting for $10 per gallon gas because we must be punished. Also, some (including posters on LJWorld) have expressed no concern that U.S. Ethanol subsidies and changes in planting caused increased prices for corn across the developingworld and thus increases in outright famine.
They buy carbon credits, sometimes these mean paying for havingtrees planted in the less developed world. These tree farms then take up resources that otherwise could provide local food and local exports. Again, famine is fostered, for western carbon guilt.

But yes I do appreciate a clean environment I just think we shouldn't wreck our economy.

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 3 months ago

Donnuts (Anonymous) says…

I hope you don't think that there are not environmental issues that should be addressed though. I am not a 'greenie' or green nazi but I am aware that there are pollution problems that we need to take care of and have in the past.

---Hi Don, no, I'm referring to those, as Michael Crichton does, who take Greenism as a new religion.

Often lost in the enviro-hysteria is that today our air is cleaner and our rivers are much cleaner, than they were 40 years ago. Unfortunately the Greenies now rate you and I as polluters, because we breathe out CO2. CO2=food for plants.

Thanks for making this point don.

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Kirk Larson 4 years, 3 months ago

From the article: “What has been shown so far is that when we engage in actions that give us some kind of moral, warm glow - let's call it that - that afterwards we are more likely to transgress,” Mazar said.

Like going to church?

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fairplay 4 years, 3 months ago

toddtrip (Anonymous) says…

amsterdam, The Netherlands, July 11, 2001 (ENS) - Over the past 300 years, humans have dramatically transformed the land surface of the Earth, changing vegetation, reshaping hills and valleys, and altering the course of rivers. In doing so, humans have set in motion a scenario of global environmental change with impacts that promise to be at least as severe as global climate change, scientists reported at a meeting in Amsterdam. “Full text”:http://ens.lycos.com/ens/jul2001/2001L-07-11-06.html

Quick, legislate transformation change, tax it and put a very small number of people (who stand to profit monetarily or through imperialistic rewards) in charge of determining whether or not enough has been done! If it came from Amsterdam, it MUST be true!

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georgiahawk 4 years, 3 months ago

It's real easy to categorize all those that you disagree with in a very simple negative way. Once done, you no longer have to listen because you already know. This allows the simple minded to deal with the complexity of the world. The fact is, the world is not black and white, people cannot all be categorized and filed in neat little black and white prejudices. The world, its occupants and their thoughts defies categorization. Allow individuals to be individuals, greenies, repub's, dems, right and left wingers all are individuals, let them be, be one yourself.

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jonas_opines 4 years, 3 months ago

Haha, where would I even start, here?

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TopJayhawk 4 years, 3 months ago

Gnome. We really should get togather for a brew sometime. I am still not convinced that we did not work togather at some point.

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TopJayhawk 4 years, 3 months ago

Gnome. This is one of the most excellent posts I have read in this paper. Michael Crichton was right on when he said these things. But just like some of those who believe in God, there are an amazing amount of hypocrits out there. Can anyone say Al Gore?
And just like past religeons. You have a lot of greenies that are so smug so arrogent. After all they are following (in their minds) the one true way. Pot, meet kettle.

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 3 months ago

Katara, assuming I didn't read the article, accusing me of thus improper behavior, is itself a form of falsehood, pride.
I did read that, but I'm sorry you didn't recognize that the portion of the prof's interpretation you cite is subjective and not supported by data. My comments only refer to the objective results of the study.

You want to try to deal with the actual study itself instead of a prof's subjective guess? and by the way, profs come in all shapes and sizes. The point is the objective, well operated, study should produce data that is replicable.

I first heard of this study in the Canadian media. Some commentators up there were concerned about "moral failure" among the greenies. yes, that's a direct quote from CBC.

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 3 months ago

[Part 3] (cont'ed) ** Not all, but many global warming believers also strongly oppose Capitalism.
Note that at the recent Copenhagen Greeniepalooza, Hugo Chavez was applauded and welcomed as a conquering hero for his speech in strong opposition to capitalism.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/putting_our_economy_in_the_hands_of_chavez_fans

From before the founding of our republic free enterprise Capitalism has been an essential part of who we are and how we live. Despite those who would put it down, it contributes much to the traditional morality of this country. The new faith of global warming attacks this too. Capitalism in America has made us self-reliant, and makes personal interest valid and positive. If the government, or the collective, is responsible then no one is responsible.

[end]

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 3 months ago

[Part 2] (Crichton's speech cont'ed) social structures always reappear. They can't be eliminated from society. One of those structures is religion. Today it is said we live in a secular society in which many people---the best people, the most enlightened people---do not believe in any religion. But I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely re-emerges in another form. You can not believe in God, but you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious.

Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it's a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.“

Because of this false religion Lawrence took money that could have been spent on preparing for snow removal, and instead put it into carbon credits! Carbon credits are a scam.

Throughout the media we see examples of Greenies demanding that their neighbors’ “carbon footprints” be published, and that people spend a lot of time and energy the green way. Sounds like suppression of our freedoms.

Crichton makes the point that the evidence for global warming is very thin, and he made this speech before the “hide the decline” E-mails were uncovered, the data showed no increase in global temps for a decade, and the Russian IEA reported that its climate data were cherrypicked by global warming scientists/hysterians.

*Since this new religion is eclipsing our traditional faiths in the lives of Americans, especially younger Americans, it is also eclipsing the morals and ethics of our traditional faiths. Greenism apparently includes different standards of morality.

(cont'ed)

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 3 months ago

[Part 1] I believe there are two major causes for this moral deficiency among Greenies: Their new religion; Hatred of Capitalism.

Michael Crichton succinctly makes the point that “green” or the belief in manmade global warming (anthropogenic) is a religion with all the elements of religion. It includes belief that we must be punished for our sins. AlGore is one of the holy high prophets. Now they want to call it, “climate change,” completely laughable because climate is constantly in flux through several various cycles.

http://www.michaelcrichton.net/speech-environmentalismaseligion.html

“I have been asked to talk about what I consider the most important challenge facing mankind, and I have a fundamental answer. The greatest challenge facing Mankind is the challenge of distinguishing reality from fantasy, truth from propaganda. Perceiving the truth has always been a challenge to mankind, but in the information age (or as I think of it, the disinformation age) it takes on a special urgency and importance.

We must daily decide whether the threats we face are real, whether the solutions we are offered will do any good, whether the problems we're told exist are in fact real problems, or non-problems. Every one of us has a sense of the world, and we all know that this sense is in part given to us by what other people and society tell us; in part generated by our emotional state, which we project outward; and in part by our genuine perceptions of reality. In short, our struggle to determine what is true is the struggle to decide which of our perceptions are genuine, and which are false because they are handed down, or sold to us, or generated by our own hopes and fears.

As an example of this challenge, I want to talk today about environmentalism. And in order not to be misunderstood, I want it perfectly clear that I believe it is incumbent on us to conduct our lives in a way that takes into account all the consequences of our actions, including the consequences to other people, and the consequences to the environment. I believe it is important to act in ways that are sympathetic to the environment, and I believe this will always be a need, carrying into the future. I believe the world has genuine problems and I believe it can and should be improved. But I also think that deciding what constitutes responsible action is immensely difficult, and the consequences of our actions are often difficult to know in advance. I think our past record of environmental action is discouraging, to put it mildly, because even our best intended efforts often go awry. But I think we do not recognize our past failures, and face them squarely. And I think I know why.

(cont'ed)

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bevy 4 years, 3 months ago

I think there's a simple answer here - those who bought green spent so much more money they didn't have as much left to share!

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Multidisciplinary 4 years, 3 months ago

Did you read the comments on that Prune? LOL!

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BigPrune 4 years, 3 months ago

Sustainable bikinis, bikinis made from fish scales. Now THAT is being the ultimate greenie.

I smell something fishy.

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farfle 4 years, 3 months ago

Drive up to the Merc in your 3 ton SUV with your little canvas bag. Do it five times a week. Very green!

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David Lignell 4 years, 3 months ago

Greenies reminds me to eat my veggies. Thank you, Gnome!

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parrothead8 4 years, 3 months ago

So...the point of the article is that greenies are just like Republicans, Democrats, and most everyone else? Great. Thanks for posting this news flash.

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 3 months ago

The Gentle Readers will please take note of the “stalking” by Boston_Corbett against me.

Boston_Corbett just “seems to turn up by coincidence”; the standard explanation of stalkers.

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Boston_Corbett 4 years, 3 months ago

Marion is struggling to keep the eyeballs focused on his (secret) racist views.

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 3 months ago

You see folks, what Katara, Beobachter, bozo and a couple of others here are about is suppression of any opinion or person which opposes their God In Man; He Who Walks Among Us; Barack Hussein Obownow.

They seek to accomplish this by deprecating the oppostion by calling them drunks and druggies, while hoping to make to same people angry enough to put up a post in reply to the false accusations and Ad Hominem attacks, which post will get them disappearded because of violations of TOS.

Don't buy into the plan but most assuredly show these socailist extremists for what they are.

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Leslie Swearingen 4 years, 3 months ago

Speaking of the Netherlands, my fathers people came to this country from Holland, (mother from Ireland) which is a part of the Netherlands that was forcibly, forcibly annexed into the country. Some of us think it should once again be independent and we are very angry about that subject. When will the people of Holland be free?

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toddtrip 4 years, 3 months ago

AMSTERDAM, The Netherlands, July 11, 2001 (ENS) - Over the past 300 years, humans have dramatically transformed the land surface of the Earth, changing vegetation, reshaping hills and valleys, and altering the course of rivers. In doing so, humans have set in motion a scenario of global environmental change with impacts that promise to be at least as severe as global climate change, scientists reported at a meeting in Amsterdam. "Full text":http://ens.lycos.com/ens/jul2001/2001L-07-11-06.html

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 3 months ago

Naw, Gnome is not stooping but rather rising to the occasion!

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Katara 4 years, 3 months ago

It is also amazing that people simply do not read the full article and just cherry pick info out of it to support their point of view. That is not engaging in very ethical behavior.

"The study, said Mazar, an assistant professor of marketing with the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, builds on research into the idea of "moral regulation" - that people either consciously or unconsciously balance bad deeds with good ones.

"What has been shown so far is that when we engage in actions that give us some kind of moral, warm glow - let's call it that - that afterwards we are more likely to transgress," Mazar said."

This applies to all good deeds, not just being a "greenie" or whatever you want to call it. You see this behavior in some people who believe they do "good and moral" things. It is a sense of entitlement that they deserve a reward for making their "sacrifices". There are a ton of studies about this and this type of research is nothing new.

"While the findings might deflate the self-righteous air of those who brag about bringing canvas bags to the grocery store, Mazar says it definitely shouldn't be seen as a condemnation of environmentally friendly purchasing habits.

That, she feels, would be a gross misunderstanding of the point of the research. The study shows we should be aware of our tendency to treat buying green as a moral act, said Mazar, rather than as our responsibility to the planet.

“What we wanted to point out is if you start to moralize particular actions … then there is a danger that people get this kind of warm glow. And that can be used afterwards to engage in less, maybe, social or altruistic behaviour,” said Mazar."

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 3 months ago

It's about control; green is about control, not carbon dioxide, emissions, energy independence, alternative energies, saving the whales, the polar bears, melting ice caps, hybrid cars, windmills, solar panels, global warming, dying species or anything else but: CONTROL.

The left can not stand one more minute of a free and capitalistic society with tiered classes. It just simply drives them bats*** crazy and as I've said, Al Gore's global warming hoax is possibly the biggest gift to the left and for them to fulfill their agenda. Now we even have obnoxious and rude far-left zealots like Al Franken, who will go along with any far-left agenda without even so much as reading any content or allowing a full debate, actually filling a senate seat. Unfathomable.

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Katara 4 years, 3 months ago

Wow. Who knew bearded_gnome could channel Marion in such a way?

And bearded_gnome made such a fuss when Marion wrote a blog that included not so nice things about bearded-gnome, yet bearded_gnome engages in the same behavior in regards to Merrill and others he disagrees with.

I'm incredibly surprised and disappointed to see you stoop to Marion's normal level. That really sucks. You get to like a person and then they do something like this.

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rbwaa 4 years, 3 months ago

irish, your post is pretentious.

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Leslie Swearingen 4 years, 3 months ago

Main Entry: 1or·gan·ic Pronunciation: ȯr-ˈga-nik Function: adjective Date: 1517

1 archaic : instrumental 2 a : of, relating to, or arising in a bodily organ b : affecting the structure of the organism 3 a (1) : of, relating to, or derived from living organisms (2) : of, relating to, yielding, or involving the use of food produced with the use of feed or fertilizer of plant or animal origin without employment of chemically formulated fertilizers, growth stimulants, antibiotics, or pesticides b (1) : of, relating to, or containing carbon compounds (2) : relating to, being, or dealt with by a branch of chemistry concerned with the carbon compounds of living beings and most other carbon compounds 4 a : forming an integral element of a whole : fundamental b : having systematic coordination of parts : organized c : having the characteristics of an organism : developing in the manner of a living plant or animal 5 : of, relating to, or constituting the law by which a government or organization exists

— or·gan·i·cal·ly -ni-k(ə-)lē adverb

— or·ga·nic·i·ty ˌȯr-gə-ˈni-sə-tē noun

Every fruit and vegetable is organic, but if the orchard or field is sprayed with pesticides in order to produce larger produce and have a stable yield, then some of it might linger on what goes to market. Which is why we wash them first. I would not consider going to the Merc because I think it is pretentious and elitist. I don't need apples that cost five dollars each and were raised and picked by elves prancing around the orchard under a full moon. Stop using the word organic to mean, "ain't I precious?"

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 3 months ago

cont'd:

The students who were simply exposed to the green items parted with more money than those who were exposed to the conventional products. But when it came to the students who made purchases, the opposite was true: those who bought green items actually gave less than those who spent their money on non-green alternatives.

In a second experiment, students were again asked to purchase either green or conventional items. Then, they were placed in front of a computer and shown a series of images depicting clusters of dots spread across the screen.

If the students told researchers they saw more dots on the left side of the screen, they were paid half a cent. But if they said there were more dots on the right, they got five cents - regardless of where the dots actually appeared.

After 90 trials, the students learned how much they'd earned and were told to pay themselves by taking their earnings out of an envelope containing five dollars. So not only could they make money by lying to researchers about the number of dots on the computer screen, but they could also increase their payoff by stealing from the envelope.

It turned out students who'd shopped at the eco-friendly store, on average, made 36 cents more on the dot test and stole 48 cents more from the envelope than those who'd made conventional purchases.

While the findings might deflate the self-righteous air of those who brag about bringing canvas bags to the grocery store, Mazar says it definitely shouldn't be seen as a condemnation of environmentally friendly purchasing habits.

That, she feels, would be a gross misunderstanding of the point of the research. The study shows we should be aware of our tendency to treat buying green as a moral act, said Mazar, rather than as our responsibility to the planet.

"What we wanted to point out is if you start to moralize particular actions . . . then there is a danger that people get this kind of warm glow. And that can be used afterwards to engage in less, maybe, social or altruistic behaviour," said Mazar.

"But this doesn't mean that you should not buy environmental products."

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 3 months ago

The Referenced Article:

Buying green could make you more likely to lie, cheat and steal: study By Trevor Pritchard (CP) – Dec 20, 2009

TORONTO — Buying green may help save the planet, but a new study suggests it might also make you more prone to cheat, steal, and be selfish.

In a paper to be published in an upcoming issue of the journal Psychological Science, University of Toronto researchers Nina Mazar and Chen-Bo Zhong studied how students behaved after being given the option of purchasing environmentally friendly products, like organic yogourt or biodegradable laundry detergent, or conventional items.

They found students who chose green products were less likely to act altruistically afterwards than those who were simply exposed to green products.

The study, said Mazar, an assistant professor of marketing with the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, builds on research into the idea of "moral regulation" - that people either consciously or unconsciously balance bad deeds with good ones.

"What has been shown so far is that when we engage in actions that give us some kind of moral, warm glow - let's call it that - that afterwards we are more likely to transgress," Mazar said.

"What we don't know, and what the interesting question is, is how much is really a conscious, deliberate thought process? We don't know that."

In one experiment, students were assigned to one of two computerized "stores" filled with either predominantly green products or conventional items. Once assigned to a store, some students were asked to think critically about the products, while others were told to go shopping.

The students were then given six dollars and told there was a person in another room with whom they were supposed to share the money, keeping whatever they didn't give away for themselves.

cont'd:

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Donnuts 4 years, 3 months ago

I hope you don't think that there are not environmental issues that should be addressed though. I am not a 'greenie' or green nazi but I am aware that there are pollution problems that we need to take care of and have in the past.

I am aware of fanaticism and avoid it as well.

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mdrndgtl 4 years, 3 months ago

I know the english sometimes don't work up there: www.thismancanbarelyformasentence.com...>

Stimulus and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you all

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