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Should circumcision be criminal? A no brainer

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San Francisco will be the first city to put it to the vote next November. The 'it' being whether circumcision should be against the law.

Dr. Oz says circumcision helps prevent STDs and STVs, but for years now the practice has been in decline. Where there used to be more than two thirds of newborn males circumcised, now just a third of parents request, or accept it.

With over two hundred thousand abortions performed yearly in America alone, it appears the issue of sexually transmitted diseases is an important one.

Some of the main reasons for circumcision have been religious practices and enhanced personal hygiene.

What's your opinion? Should the state stay out of your diaper, or is circumcision a barbaric practice that needs to be cut short? (pun intended?)

Comments

beeshlii 3 years, 4 months ago

the thing you refer to in my diaper is mine and he wants to wear his helmet.

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Multidisciplinary 3 years, 4 months ago

geekin..many insurance carriers consider this elective now unless there is a real medical issue involved.

On another note. I have a male friend who likes to mention to his female partners..or should I say 'mildly complain' about the fact that his was done unevenly. He being a perfectionist, he has noted that the cut was not made exactly even all the way around the shaft, meaning the line is lower on one side then the other.

What this gets him is drawing the woman in for closer inspection, a ploy which he uses as often as I imagine he can get away with..while at the same time it allows him something to complain about and perhaps get a touch of female 'the things we do to our baby boys!-sympathy/disgust'..all of which he manipulates.

Thus, in his instance...the circumcision should be considered a boon. ;p

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Geekin, one would think it shouldn't be covered since it isn't automatically done and requires parental choice. Drops that are put in the newborns eyes to prevent blindness and other standard procedures are always done and the parent isn't asked. Soooo, I'll bet the state pays for those who are uninsured. One would think doctors would attempt to tell them not to have it.

It appears the procedure is certainly more about religion than necessity at this point.

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geekin_topekan 3 years, 4 months ago

"Does insurance cover the procedure? " ++++ Good question. It raises another concern, that being over whether the state pays for the procedure in the case of the un-insured childbirth. Does a "welfare mom" get to decide whether her boy gets a circumcision or not?

Is outlawing the procedure a step for betterment for a maximum number of people? If it is a matter of preventative health care then the procedure should be allowed because the people (taxpayers) would be spared later expenses, but if it purely religious or personal taste it should not be covered by state funds.

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Slang, it sounds as though you've given this some thought. Someone just told me this morning about a case where twin boys were circumcised and one of them had a botched job and lost sensation because of nerve damage. There are surely similar cases and for no reason.

Does insurance cover the procedure? If so, I wonder when they will stop. It certainly sounds elective.

I'm sorry to hear about your infant son and his need for surgery. I hope all goes well - please keep us informed.

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slang4d 3 years, 4 months ago

As the future mother of a baby boy, I've definitely thought about this and decided against circumcision. If taught proper hygiene (by his father hopefully! I don't want anything to do with it), there shouldn't be any issues with "cheese" and what not. Also, removing the foreskin does affect sexual pleasure. He can make the decision for himself when he's an adult, I really don't think it's my choice to make.

On top of all of this, my baby is having major surgery within days of his birth to correct a defect. Circumcision is a petty and stupid thing to worry about in the face of that!

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RoeDapple 3 years, 4 months ago

Well . . . Seems michaelclayton got himself disapearededed . . . . again. Amazing how that works . . .

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

You're just ticked because Sarah's still intact. :)

But you did just help me come up with a song for my other blog.

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michaelclayton 3 years, 4 months ago

stick to fluff pieces about Ticky Tack Palin

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

And where in my blog did I state that opinion? I am a mother and do have sexual partners, only one at a time though, so I've got some thoughts about the matter. I first realized how odd it was when it was under the chapter on child abuse in a sociology class many, many years ago

You're just upset that you've never recovered from the trauma of them cutting off your wrong head. :)

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michaelclayton 3 years, 4 months ago

Seriously Ronda. What makes you think, as a person who does not possess a penis, that you know anything about circumcision? Do you see me, a man, writing a blog on tampons? Or brassiers? Or menstrual cycles? What on earth makes you think you know anything about what it's like to be circumcised?

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michaelclayton 3 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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michaelclayton 3 years, 4 months ago

I'm not sure what was wrong about the original post so I will break it down into 3 separate posts and see which one gets deleted by the censor du jour

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michaelclayton 3 years, 4 months ago

Ronda. I have a penis. I have been circumcised. You are wrong. Stick to blogging about Sarah Palin and Dancing With the Stars.

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Multidisciplinary 3 years, 4 months ago

good god.

My first obstetrician was Dr. Robert Bradley (the inventor of Husband Coached Childbirth and author of same).(yes, cousin to local vets of same name) He gave monthly meetings for the parents to attend and of course this was a topic. He was all for having it done early. And this was before the day of HIV.

Why? Because he had served in the Navy in WWII, and had seen first hand himself what happens when a young man gets on a sub, cramped quarters, poor bathing situation back then on those things, and has to have an adult circumcision. He said, 'He wouldn't wish that on any man in the world." Of course he went into detail. He said, the babies suffer are comforted easily, and their bodies typically respond very well, heal rapidly, uneventfully. But grown men go through hell with this. And for that alone he would do it as a prophylactic. Then to add on hygiene ease for everyone. The lessening of mother having to nag the son about cleaning 'under there'...less embarrassment for the boy.

Now, the smegma story. When my best friend had a toddler, she made up a nickname for her..schmegma, thinking it cutesy. I heard this the first time and stopped dead in my tracks. She saw my face with the same look that Morgan Freeman had when Jack Nickelson talked about kopi luwak and asked what was wrong. I said, 'I don't know about schmegma, but smegma is....." and explained. Great giggles ensued, end of nickname for little girl.

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Gravity, I believe abortion is being voted on whenever we elect the politicians we choose. It isn't sequestered to San Fran. Nice try though.

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gravitykills 3 years, 4 months ago

Ronda... I agree 'childbirth is natural but circumcision is not'. On the other side of that coin, childbirth is natural but abortion is not.

Does that mean SF will be voting on an abortion ban in 2020? Hmmm... I doubt it. So, flip that coin.... heads I win, tails you lose!

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Funny you suggested that. My gfriend invented a cleaning device for belly bottoms. One side cleans the inny and one the outty

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michaelclayton 3 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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RoeDapple 3 years, 4 months ago

Hey Ronda! Next blog!

"Inny Or Outty. Your Navel And What It Means To You".

I can even keep my same avatar!

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Boston_Corbett 3 years, 4 months ago

Has anyone ever taken a look at a list of all of Ronda's blogs and noticed how many of them are topically sexually related?

:)

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ferrislives 3 years, 4 months ago

"Should circumcision be criminal?" NO. Next question.

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whatadrag 3 years, 4 months ago

I don't understand why it should be illegal, when it could simply be an available choice. This is really a non-issue.

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bobberboy 3 years, 4 months ago

P.S. Rapple are you taking enough meds today ?

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RoeDapple 3 years, 4 months ago

Ah, I "see" bobberboy could not resist commenting, even though he has been disapearededed and only very few can witness his "frustration" at not being able to share his poison with the rest of the readers on this "sensitive" topic.

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bobberboy 3 years, 4 months ago

I like my weiner circumsized - my doc did a great job - he left plenty of skin on the bottom of it so I still have plenty of nerves there so the feeling of going in and out of a vagina is real nice. Thanks doc. I have noticed though that their seems to be a lot of controversy within the gay community about it. I guess they like to keep all their skin or something - who cares !!

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Funny read, gravity! Good points. (your avatar scared me though)

One dispute - childbirth is natural but circumcision is not.

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gravitykills 3 years, 4 months ago

My 2 yr old was circumcised on day 2. The whole process took maybe 10 seconds. The doctor even missed the membrane the first time and had to re-due the cut. I was expecting a scalpel or maybe scissors. The tool looked like a small pipe cutter. Anyway... he cried for a few seconds and that was it.

Now, at birth... he screamed for 5 minutes. But, I'm sure having your head compressed, smashed, and reformed to look like a cone, has gotta hurt. Was he given a choice?

I'll bet every baby in the womb would vote Caesarean section over vaginal delivery any day, given the choice. So, maybe SF will be the first city to put it to the vote November 2021. The 'it' being whether vaginal deliveries should be against the law.

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JJE007 3 years, 4 months ago

I don't give a rat's moyel. HEY! Where's my MOYEL?

I don't remember being cut/hurt but I'm pretty damned sure that I cried! I suspect my birth was no picnic, either. It does seem that humans/animals are, to a great extent, designed to accept and forget pain. If we're NOT, we SHOULD be.

I doubt that I would accept circumcision for myself of my child, but I can't see it as a great horror.

I still don't give a rat's moyel.

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independant1 3 years, 4 months ago

Awwww man! I thought circumcision was a holy day of obligation?

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jjt 3 years, 4 months ago

What is this story about? I just start reading it and then pass out. ;-))

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KUnlv13 3 years, 4 months ago

Quite impressive folks...would've certainly considered an LJW article on genitalia to be riddled with TOS violations...alas, we have Dems and 'Pubs commenting on foreskin in a civil manner! Now, back to that healthcare 'thang

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oneeye_wilbur 3 years, 4 months ago

Is it possible to circumsize a city budget?

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riverdrifter 3 years, 4 months ago

I'm gonna have another shot of Knob Creek and think this over some more.

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Tom Shewmon 3 years, 4 months ago

From what I've heard about the sensitivity of uncirc'd men, I would be like a rodeo champion....8 seconds and done.

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beatrice 3 years, 4 months ago

I would have taken part in this discussion, but I didn't want anyone accusing me again of having envy.

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75x55 3 years, 4 months ago

Well, yes - it should be illegal. At least the second or third time around...

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railzer 3 years, 4 months ago

From watching porn with women once they see a French flick they love to watch all that skin and hey even the most nasty line sounds sexy in French

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Ron Holzwarth 3 years, 4 months ago

There seem to be a lot of comments about circumcision being a Jewish practice.

Why is there no mention that it's also an important rite in Islam? Although for Muslims, it's usually done at 10 to 12 years of age.

I think the Jewish practice of doing it at the age of eight days is much better!

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railzer 3 years, 4 months ago

So if they outlaw this where are Rabi"s going to get there chewing gum?

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autie 3 years, 4 months ago

Maybe you should go ask John Wayne Bobbit about this...then go bake some damn cookies are something.

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Ron, I'm sure there are many jobs in homes and hospitals that are not pleasant - cleaning up feces and or vomit, blood, etc., including amputations and infections. If you're in that type of a work environment, or alive, you're going to experience those health issues. And most are well underpaid.

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Ron, I'm sure there are many jobs in homes and hospitals that are not pleasant - cleaning up feces and or vomit or blood, etc., including amputations and infections. If you're in that type of a work environment, or alive, you're going to experience those health issues. And most are well underpaid.

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Ron Holzwarth 3 years, 4 months ago

I heard quite a discussion from a couple female nurse's aides that worked in a nursing home about how gross it was to clean old men that were no longer able to care for themselves. They used Q-tips, and they sure hated having to do that. (I'm sure that cleaning is skipped whenever possible!)

And, I personally know a poster child for circumcision - he wasn't, and his infection was horrible! And - right where it hurts the most!

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deathpenaltyliberal 3 years, 4 months ago

"justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) replies… I agree it'd be nice to wait for them to make the choice, but a big argument is same sex parent and child looking the same. "Daddy, why is your penis different from mine?".

This always seemed like a specious argument by the Dad. After all, a grown man's junk should not look like a little boy's.

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ferrislives 3 years, 4 months ago

This is the same city that outlawed happy meal toys, remember? It truly is liberalism gone mad in San Fran.

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Jay_lo 3 years, 4 months ago

Many people think that piercings are a form of abuse, and yet thousands of mothers a week take their tiny little daughters in to get that first darling set of earrings, and that's not even a religious belief, just a vanity one.

Would you feel abused if someone made you cover yourself with a sack from head to toe everytime you left your house? You probably would, but there are women who truly believe it to be a part of their religious beliefs, and don't feel forced to wear them, and have even gone to court to be allowed to wear them in their driver's licence photos. Although I can't imagine it to be very safe to drive with such restricted vision. Freedom of religion you know.

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Interesting. Thanks for the facts and the link. I don't know how precise Oz was being. He was just trying to make the point about people not wearing condoms and how foreskin holds and transmits germs more than one without.

As with all discussions of this nature it would have been useful to also mention abstinence and or use of condoms regardless.

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MacHeath 3 years, 4 months ago

I bet if I had to be circumcised now I would remember it. I think most doctors still recommend the practice. If you don't want your baby to have one, then don't let them do it. Outlaw it? how ridickulous . Hey, lets get all upset about penises now!

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gatekeeper 3 years, 4 months ago

Hmmmmm... according to the Guttmacher Institute, a non-profit that has been tracking abortion since 1974, as of 2005 the rate of abortion in the USA was 1.2 million. There's a reason I don't watch shows like Dr. Oz - I like facts from good doctors, not some guy looking to make a buck on tv.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-01-16-abortion-rates_N.htm

What isn't told in any of these numbers is if they are also counting abortions performed due to miscarriage. Even though a fetus is no longer living and viable, the procedure to remove it is still classed as an abortion (just don't know if it's lumped into the regular abortions numbers).

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Liberty275 3 years, 4 months ago

Forbidding circumcision blatantly unconstitutional. It will be struck down easily.

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Tom Shewmon 3 years, 4 months ago

Speaking of circumcision, I believe I saw headcheese half off at Thriftway the other day. Whitney, please I'm serious, please don't delete this post.

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LadyJ 3 years, 4 months ago

LOL, just envisioned young men suing their parents for circumcising them without their consent.

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bearded_gnome 3 years, 4 months ago

if circumcisions are outlawed, then only outlaws will have circumcisions!
[sorry, couldn't resist!]


I do see that if it is outlawed, then people will circumcize for religious reasons, and do it as civil disobedience.

A man walks down the street, he passes a baker's shop with cakes and rolls in the window.
he passes a leather worker's shop with wallets, belts and some shoes in the window. he then comes to the shop of the religious circumcizer (sorry, the proper term escapes me right now). in the window are all kinds of clocks. so, he is curious and turns in the door to ask.
when asked, the practitioner answers: "yes, a baker shows his cakes and the cobbler his shoes. ... you think I should show what I cut off?"

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WHY 3 years, 4 months ago

If it were not for a stupid religious book people would have never thought of cutting the end of their penises off. For hygiene use soap not a knife.

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Norma Jeane Baker 3 years, 4 months ago

Living in a country where circumcision at birth is not practiced, I see too many young boys with infections caused by not being able to clean properly. Hence, many 4-, 5-, and 6-year-olds end up having circumcisions anyway. I'm sure it's much more painful then than at birth.

Ronda, I'm more than a little curious by where you get your number of over 200,000 abortions performed in the US yearly. I'm as pro-life as they get and I've never (ever) heard a figure that high. Can you provide a source, please?

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kernal 3 years, 4 months ago

I don't know about this, Rhonda. Could be taking away someone's brains.

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cozy 3 years, 4 months ago

I love it when people dont read the comments and say/post the same thing over and over and over.

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sad_lawrencian 3 years, 4 months ago

Yes, circumcision should be criminalized. There is NO legitimate medical purpose for male infant circumcision. If circumcising girls is a heinous act, circumcising boys should be no different.

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RoeDapple 3 years, 4 months ago

Damn . . . . I been tellin' her to close the curtains at night, now the secret . . . . . . . . . and ya know, what adult male is gonna waltz into the doctors office and say "Hey doc, I need a trim. Could you take a little off the top?"

No. How many ritualistic, medically unproven, barbaric, painful, heathenish, medieval, scarring, . . . . Do I sound bitt . . er, I mean, uh, anyway, Different cultures around the world have some very strange beliefs and practices when it comes to genetilia, both male and female. My view is whether created or evolved, natural is how it should be. Save surgery for reconstructive rather than cosmetic purposes. A close friend who is an anesthesiologist tells me every time you face the knife you risk not coming home.

And if he (or she) are getting ready for a little intimacy and one or the other detects an 'ewww' factor, suggest maybe another time, or an intimate shower before proceeding.

Damn!

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Or remove our tongues to help prevent bad breath? :)

I think many doctors find it is a good little, or large as your case may be, money maker.

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Liberty_One 3 years, 4 months ago

It's a strange remnant of ancient penis-cutting cults that anyone still does this. I also find it strange that some people think mutilation is ok for hygienic purposes. I suppose I could cut my feet off and not have to worry about toe fungus anymore...

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railzer 3 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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WHY 3 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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autie 3 years, 4 months ago

well gee....let me see.....I think better than not. I almost feel Jewish somedays.

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cozy 3 years, 4 months ago

It can be a problem with age. I know someone who had to have it removed later in life because of a health concern it caused. Its a lot worse to have it removed later (trying not to get a __ while it heals) than to just get it over with when they are a baby.

And really, who wants the cheese or whatever you hear about? (lol) Having it on there has to breed bacteria and it cant smell great either. :( The hygiene factor is what gets to me.

I guess Im just too new fashioned for all this and think that people should have good hygiene and no feta. :-/

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

I agree. It seems to be a hot topic for those who feel strongly in either direction. If the majority of the U. S. did not do it we'd be on the curtly edge of screaming unjustice. How different is it from breast ironing as far as cruelty or social practice?

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railzer 3 years, 4 months ago

A world study shows 80% aren't cut. Old testament says yes but later in the bible says you don't have to be to be saved. Should outer labia major be cut off little girls? Touchy subject!

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Geekin. they're related by birth! :)

Actually it means if no one is taking precautions then the high pregnancy which equals higher rates of STD's. If condoms aren't on then semen and viruses go visiting.

Agree?

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tvc 3 years, 4 months ago

If the pro argument is to prevent STIs, it would make sense to wait and let the male decide when he reaches sexual maturity. Personally, I feel we should not permanently change/mutilate/disfigure any person without his/her consent.

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Ronda Miller 3 years, 4 months ago

Ok, we know how your big head thinks about this. How does the one down under feel about this topic? Ghost pains from nerves no longer present?

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geekin_topekan 3 years, 4 months ago

"With over two hundred thousand abortions performed yearly in America alone, it appears the issue of sexually transmitted diseases is an important one. " ++++ How are these related?

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scooterali 3 years, 4 months ago

Why even discuss this??

Penis' already have an inferiority complex because everyone looks down on them........

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