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Should circumcision be criminal? A no brainer

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San Francisco will be the first city to put it to the vote next November. The 'it' being whether circumcision should be against the law.

Dr. Oz says circumcision helps prevent STDs and STVs, but for years now the practice has been in decline. Where there used to be more than two thirds of newborn males circumcised, now just a third of parents request, or accept it.

With over two hundred thousand abortions performed yearly in America alone, it appears the issue of sexually transmitted diseases is an important one.

Some of the main reasons for circumcision have been religious practices and enhanced personal hygiene.

What's your opinion? Should the state stay out of your diaper, or is circumcision a barbaric practice that needs to be cut short? (pun intended?)

Comments

scooterali 4 years, 5 months ago

Why even discuss this??

Penis' already have an inferiority complex because everyone looks down on them........

geekin_topekan 4 years, 5 months ago

"With over two hundred thousand abortions performed yearly in America alone, it appears the issue of sexually transmitted diseases is an important one. " ++++ How are these related?

Casey_Jones 4 years, 5 months ago

Don't you know? Babies are the worst of the STDs.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Well the 'cure' for them certainly isn't a pleasant thought.

I guess those on the receiving end of germs and sperm give it more thought. Wait a minute, I guess it's equal if it's happening. The old two to tango.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Ok, we know how your big head thinks about this. How does the one down under feel about this topic? Ghost pains from nerves no longer present?

tvc 4 years, 5 months ago

If the pro argument is to prevent STIs, it would make sense to wait and let the male decide when he reaches sexual maturity. Personally, I feel we should not permanently change/mutilate/disfigure any person without his/her consent.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

I agree it'd be nice to wait for them to make the choice, but a big argument is same sex parent and child looking the same. "Daddy, why is your penis different from mine?". Although, how many of you have seen your Father's penis?

StanBower 4 years, 5 months ago

If parents can explain to their son why dad's is bigger and why dad has hair, it should be easy to explain why dad is circumcised and the boy is not. "When I was born doctors thought it was a good idea to circumcise boys, but now we know that it is not necessary."

Most boys are very glad they did not have part cut off when they learn what circumcision is.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

I agree and it may have been an excuse doctors used to continue the practice. There again - do boys generally see their father's privates? My daughter certainly has not seen mine.

Jackno 4 years, 5 months ago

In the industrialized world, there is no lowering of STD risk by cutting off parts of your penis (circumcision). It is also not cleaner to have a cut penis -- natrual keeps out bad bacteria.
People need to stop buying into these myths.

Circumcision provides no protection against STDs in the developed nations. Evidence of this comes from the Laumann study (USA, 1997), based on over 30,000 American men, which showed no advantage to the circumcised group. The most recent comparative study from Dunedin, New Zealand (cohort of about 500 men) backs this up, concluding: "Circumcision does not appear to shield men from most types of STDs in developed nations". SOURCE: Journal of Pediatrics, MARCH 2008. The most recent US study shows uncircumcised men are not at a higher risk of acquiring human papillomavirus (HPV). In AUS:Circumcision does not seem to be justified in the Australian context because it has no protective effects against STIs. Note also that in the 80% circumcised USA, HIV has spread sexually faster than in uncircumcised Europe. Circumcised men pass HIV to women at a higher rate than natural men (Gates study that was shut down).

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Geekin. they're related by birth! :)

Actually it means if no one is taking precautions then the high pregnancy which equals higher rates of STD's. If condoms aren't on then semen and viruses go visiting.

Agree?

tolawdjk 4 years, 5 months ago

But your original arguement wasn't pushing "high pregnancy" it related abortion to STDs. You don't need an STD to have an abortion and you don't need an abortion to have an STD. Your second arguement is also in error as high pregnancy doesn't equal higher rates of STDs. You finally get close when you mention condoms.

But hey, props for throwing unfounded relationships out there.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

It's al related. If you don't use protection that blocks sperm then you're running the risk of both STDs and pregnancy. And none are my arguments. These were all named from the Dr Oz show yesterday.

geekin_topekan 4 years, 5 months ago

OK, let me put it another way. How is this related to circumcision? Circumcised or not, sperm and STDS will be transmitted the old fashioned way.

Legal circumcisions is not related in any way shape or form to your statement about STDS.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Again, this is not my statement, it is from Dr. Oz. His example was to show a woman with a turtle neck up all the way over her head. He then released a bunch of multi colored paper over the top of her covered head which was to represent the STD germs that became trapped. Then he tool a loose thread from the sweater and began to pull it. It released the tight fitting, skin, and fell away from thr head - representing how the circumcised penis doesn't hold the germs the same way the uncircumcised one did.

Well. At least give him an A for creativity! :)

Jackno 4 years, 5 months ago

How about leave girls and boys they way they were created. Why do poeple not clue into the fact that these body part cutting practices remove a source of PLEASURE from the human for LIFE.

Circumcision is nerve damage cutting off about 20000 fine touch and stretch sensing nerve endings and removing a source of pleasure from the male FOR LIFE. This is 2/3 of the total pleasure source amputated! This is nerves, blood vessels, protective covering and pleasure zones taken away from a human before the human can experience this. The dynamics and function and pleasure from sex and masturbation of the penis is harmed for good.

Almost all men circumciced as infants have ED at a much younger age than natural men. Other risks (besides loss of sexual function, ED, PE and loss of PLEASURE) include curved or misshapen erection, painful erection, botches of all sorts (many requiring redo) and death. About 120 boys die each year in the US from this sick practice.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

I agree. It seems to be a hot topic for those who feel strongly in either direction. If the majority of the U. S. did not do it we'd be on the curtly edge of screaming unjustice. How different is it from breast ironing as far as cruelty or social practice?

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

That should be cutting edge and injustice.

EarthaKitt 4 years, 5 months ago

Breast ironing? Damn. I can't even bring my self to use hot rollers.

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

It can be a problem with age. I know someone who had to have it removed later in life because of a health concern it caused. Its a lot worse to have it removed later (trying not to get a __ while it heals) than to just get it over with when they are a baby.

And really, who wants the cheese or whatever you hear about? (lol) Having it on there has to breed bacteria and it cant smell great either. :( The hygiene factor is what gets to me.

I guess Im just too new fashioned for all this and think that people should have good hygiene and no feta. :-/

dipweed 4 years, 5 months ago

Am pro-circumcision. Down with smegma! (cheese)

StanBower 4 years, 5 months ago

Intact women produce more smegma than intact men. Are you in favor of cutting parts of girls too to reduce smegma?

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

What's wrong with a littie cheese on your tuna.

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

I dont know what a "littie" is, but speaking for myself, I have never had any "tuna". Maybe you should get that looked at....?

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

lol @ french. Thats not what Ive heard. You know, with the chicken and the licken and everything.....

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

Feta...Tuna.......and smegma...thanks for the laugh! Oh lord. HAHAHAHAHA, heehee, hohohoho......eeewwwwiiie. That's some funny stuff! Cheese on tuna, while still hilarious, makes my wanna hurl.

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

Youre welcome. :)

Thats what Im here for. Well, that and spewing pure sarcasm that a lot of this site is too dumb to understand.

WHY 4 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

It does to seem like an odd process when one thinks about it. And we think piercings and tats are strange?

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

I see here that you did not read my whole comment. It is also to help prevent health concerns with old age. (which also has to do with hygiene- as some older people are not able to take care of themselves as they once had) I believe your feet have a purpose this day and age.. bacteria harboring skin does not. Who wants it to look that way anyway? lol

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

oh, and I suppose maybe you should cut your feet off if you really want to get rid of that fungus instead of just, you know, taking a shower or making a point to keep your feet healthy by using products/remedies designed to prevent it if you know you have a problem with it. :)

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

That specific skin. I did not say all skin. I never said fashion, either. Thanks for playing.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Or remove our tongues to help prevent bad breath? :)

I think many doctors find it is a good little, or large as your case may be, money maker.

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

Or have good dental hygiene to prevent bad breath...?

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

I've thought of cutting out my toungue to keep myself out of trouble, but then I could still type and so the problem, alas, would NOT be solved.

RoeDapple 4 years, 5 months ago

Damn . . . . I been tellin' her to close the curtains at night, now the secret . . . . . . . . . and ya know, what adult male is gonna waltz into the doctors office and say "Hey doc, I need a trim. Could you take a little off the top?"

No. How many ritualistic, medically unproven, barbaric, painful, heathenish, medieval, scarring, . . . . Do I sound bitt . . er, I mean, uh, anyway, Different cultures around the world have some very strange beliefs and practices when it comes to genetilia, both male and female. My view is whether created or evolved, natural is how it should be. Save surgery for reconstructive rather than cosmetic purposes. A close friend who is an anesthesiologist tells me every time you face the knife you risk not coming home.

And if he (or she) are getting ready for a little intimacy and one or the other detects an 'ewww' factor, suggest maybe another time, or an intimate shower before proceeding.

Damn!

sad_lawrencian 4 years, 5 months ago

Yes, circumcision should be criminalized. There is NO legitimate medical purpose for male infant circumcision. If circumcising girls is a heinous act, circumcising boys should be no different.

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

I love it when people dont read the comments and say/post the same thing over and over and over.

damnitimpissed 4 years, 5 months ago

Here are a few things I don't think have been said.

  1. Foreskins are sold. For a lot of money. Google "Where do all the foreskins go?" Go on, do it.
  2. Next, Google "botched circumcision". This one is really worth your time.
  3. If you are religious, ask yourself if God would put a foreskin on a baby if he justed wanted you to slice it off after birth. If you are not religious, ask yourself if Evolution would put a foreskin on a baby if she just wanted you to slice it off after birth. Things like foreskins don't just show up to the party uninvited.
  4. If you've made it this far, and still think infant genital mutilation is okay, try watching this (YouTube): http://tinyurl.com/23stsh8 (warning: It may traumatize you. Fortunately, you always have the choice of stopping it, unlike your newborn baby boy.)

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Damn,

Thorough reasons not to continue this barbaric practice. It appears people feel strongly about this one. I'll view your link too.

The old adage -' if it ain't broke, don't fix it' comes to mind.

kernal 4 years, 5 months ago

I don't know about this, Rhonda. Could be taking away someone's brains.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

I just noticed this one. Good one, kernal. Yet another reason not to do it. Lol

bad_dog 4 years, 5 months ago

It's that scalp rash of yours I'd be concerned about...

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

Probably wouldve been better if you had bought some shoes and wore......shower shoes (dun dun dunnn) from preventing this kind of thing.

Jackno 4 years, 5 months ago

Infections are rare outside the US and are often caused by bad medical advice of pulling back the foreskin of babies and boys to clean. NO never do that. BTW, 4 - 6 year olds typically have their membrane still fused to their glans. AS SUCH, there is no way that there is a problem unless somone is pulling back the foreskin and CAUSING the infection.It is quite clear that you are maling this up or in a place that does ignorant bad things to young boys.

There is no hygiene or STI benefit (primitive ideas about hygeine misunderstanding good and foreign bacteria issues and dampening males sexual pleasure is why this was started in the US).

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

Lol. If I am going to be in eye poking distance, I really dont want to deal with peeling a banana with cheese. You dont get sweat, etc. under there? The word smegma does have a definition. Its not imaginary. Also, something else to think about, what happens when youre having sex and it gets dry and pulls and tears it? Good luck with that.

Anyway, who are you/anyone to tell anyone else how to live their life (making it illegal and taking away choices) for your own close-minded views. While I do think it is disgusting, primitive, not pleasing to the eye-(who wants an animal looking penis? goes with the primitive comment), etc. While we are animals, and it probably has something to do with protecting it while being naked in the wild. But now, as a civilized group, we should be able to decide if we want to get rid of it as it doesnt have the same use as it originally did. I wouldnt try to make a law ordering it to be illegal because I didnt agree with it.

Ill mention it again:

It can be a problem with age. I know someone who had to have it removed later in life because of a health concern it caused. (which also has to do with hygiene- as some older people are not able to take care of themselves as they once had) Its a lot worse to have it removed later (trying not to get a __ while it heals) than to just get it over with when they are a baby.

Jackno 4 years, 5 months ago

Oh and you may be sure it is more painful, but you are WRONG. Baby boys must have the membrane pulled from the glans and this is worse than having fingernails pulled out. Older boys and men do not have this painful issue annd they can get anesthetic. The pain they put babies throug is outrageous!!!!

Hey little fella, we have cut off your pleasure giving nerves, protective membranes, skin, you have lost sexual function (don't ask, you will never know) and now we will return you to your mommy.

Jay_lo 4 years, 5 months ago

Just curious. What in the world do you base your comment about having a baby's membrane pulled from the glans being more painful than having fingernails pulled out on?

Do you pull fingernails from babies and see if they cry harder than when they were circumsized? Do you wait until someone who can talk has a fingernail pulled out and then ask them..."Say, remember when you were like two days old and..."?

Do you use a Pain-O-Meter?

I fail to see how you can make this comparison. Are you basing it on nerve endings? Do you know if a baby's nerves are just as sensitive in that area? Do you engage in baby talk like some strange form of Dr. Dolittle, and if so where in the world do you even find babies who have endured both so that they can give you a comparison of the pain levels????

I'm sure that it's painful but I find that statement just as absurd as the one about older men and boys having more pain when it is done. Who has had it both ways in order to make this comparison?

I think the only reason we feel it is more painful for older persons is because they can complain about the pain for days whereas a baby cries for a while then falls asleep so we like to kid ourselves that it didn't hurt them too much.

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

You do know that you dont remember things from when youre younger than 3, right?

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Actually I've always heard we learn 90 percent of what we know by the age of five.

Infants remember much more than we give them credit for. Maybe they block the pain and how do we know what someone remembers on all levels? I have many memories before that age, don't you?

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

You develop motor skills and what not. What could you remember at 1? Staring at the ceiling in your crib? I don't think it is likely, research confirms it.

"Six-month-olds have a memory span of no more than about 24 hours, which gradually expands to up to a month by 9 months. In the new study, 13-month-old babies could not remember events they had witnessed and mimicked four months earlier -- a task that came easily to their elders, ages 21 months and 28 months.

The findings support the view that at 9 months, two key areas of the brain involved in learning and memory are not yet fully mature. These are the hippocampus, a region where memories are first processed before being transferred to the cerebral cortex for permanent storage, and the frontal cortex. This large anterior area of the brain is involved in reasoning, planning, abstract thought and other complex cognitive processes in addition to motor functions, such as speech, handwriting, drawing, walking, reaching and grasping."

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

While these are all interesting studies I don't know that any of these deal with pain memories and how they may shape someone. Regardless, if someone can remember pain or not, should it be ok? Is the determining factor the pain or the memory of pain? Especially if it's unnecessary to begin with.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Informed, all the information in my blog was in about a ten minute segment from the Dr Oz show - broadcast yesterday. I did not substantiate the info. I believe his shows run again the next evening so it may be the same show replayed this evening. Or you may be able to go to his website to view previous shows.

WHY 4 years, 5 months ago

If it were not for a stupid religious book people would have never thought of cutting the end of their penises off. For hygiene use soap not a knife.

WHY 4 years, 5 months ago

Pull it back when you pee, shake twice, no need to cut penis. Unless you have a sadistic god with a funny sense of humor who made a defective model.

WHY 4 years, 5 months ago

I have had a foreskin for 20+ years and never had a problem with it. I would rather have an uncut fetish than a cutting fetish. Humans evolved with the skin and it will not harm a person to have it. There is no real sanitation problem, that is just a justification made up to explain what is otherwise a stupid rule by the space god. As for the law if Jews want to cut their kids foreskins it is fine with me. Just don't pretend that it is necessary.

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

The one time I agree with you.

Also, I didnt know that people birthed kids in San Francisco..... Am I the only one that finds it humorous that this is in San Francisco?

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Apparently Ferris Lives does. Note his comment below

bearded_gnome 4 years, 5 months ago

if circumcisions are outlawed, then only outlaws will have circumcisions!
[sorry, couldn't resist!]


I do see that if it is outlawed, then people will circumcize for religious reasons, and do it as civil disobedience.

A man walks down the street, he passes a baker's shop with cakes and rolls in the window.
he passes a leather worker's shop with wallets, belts and some shoes in the window. he then comes to the shop of the religious circumcizer (sorry, the proper term escapes me right now). in the window are all kinds of clocks. so, he is curious and turns in the door to ask.
when asked, the practitioner answers: "yes, a baker shows his cakes and the cobbler his shoes. ... you think I should show what I cut off?"

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

Moil...probabaly not spelled that way. I learned that one on Seinfeld, who says TV makes you stupid?

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

Moyel - but as with all transliterated Hebrew words, the spelling using our English alphabet is only approximate.

And, the ceremony is called a briss, performed when a boy is 8 days old.

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

Eight day is when blood will clot, correct? A good example of the wisdom of the old testament, all of this circumcision talk aside, the eighth day of life is when blood will clot, the eighth day is when the Jews were told to snip snip.

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

Eight day is when blood will clot, correct? A good example of the wisdom of the old testament, all of this circumcision talk aside, the eighth day of life is when blood will clot, the eighth day is when the Jews were told to snip snip.

LadyJ 4 years, 5 months ago

LOL, just envisioned young men suing their parents for circumcising them without their consent.

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

You aren't serious. Know how I know? Because they don't sell head cheese at Thriftway. Only American, Cheddar and Swiss. They also do not sell- Pita Bread, Humus, dried figs, artichokes, or really much of anything interesting. Although they do carry pickled pigs feet, necks, gizzards, beef toungue, heart and pork rinds. Oh and live bait if yer lucky.

Liberty275 4 years, 5 months ago

Forbidding circumcision blatantly unconstitutional. It will be struck down easily.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Why? Other forms of abuse are constitutional? I agree those who want to continue for religious reasons might have a good case, although even so, if it's considered abusive should it be allowed - religion or no.

Liberty275 4 years, 5 months ago

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

gatekeeper 4 years, 5 months ago

Hmmmmm... according to the Guttmacher Institute, a non-profit that has been tracking abortion since 1974, as of 2005 the rate of abortion in the USA was 1.2 million. There's a reason I don't watch shows like Dr. Oz - I like facts from good doctors, not some guy looking to make a buck on tv.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-01-16-abortion-rates_N.htm

What isn't told in any of these numbers is if they are also counting abortions performed due to miscarriage. Even though a fetus is no longer living and viable, the procedure to remove it is still classed as an abortion (just don't know if it's lumped into the regular abortions numbers).

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Interesting. Thanks for the facts and the link. I don't know how precise Oz was being. He was just trying to make the point about people not wearing condoms and how foreskin holds and transmits germs more than one without.

As with all discussions of this nature it would have been useful to also mention abstinence and or use of condoms regardless.

Jay_lo 4 years, 5 months ago

Many people think that piercings are a form of abuse, and yet thousands of mothers a week take their tiny little daughters in to get that first darling set of earrings, and that's not even a religious belief, just a vanity one.

Would you feel abused if someone made you cover yourself with a sack from head to toe everytime you left your house? You probably would, but there are women who truly believe it to be a part of their religious beliefs, and don't feel forced to wear them, and have even gone to court to be allowed to wear them in their driver's licence photos. Although I can't imagine it to be very safe to drive with such restricted vision. Freedom of religion you know.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Michael Jackson's children could likely give some insight on the covered head example.

ferrislives 4 years, 5 months ago

This is the same city that outlawed happy meal toys, remember? It truly is liberalism gone mad in San Fran.

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

I heard quite a discussion from a couple female nurse's aides that worked in a nursing home about how gross it was to clean old men that were no longer able to care for themselves. They used Q-tips, and they sure hated having to do that. (I'm sure that cleaning is skipped whenever possible!)

And, I personally know a poster child for circumcision - he wasn't, and his infection was horrible! And - right where it hurts the most!

StanBower 4 years, 5 months ago

How is that any different from cleaning women who are no longer able to care for themselves? Should be start cutting parts of infant girls to make the jobs of nurse's aides easier when they have to clean elderly women in nursing homes?

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

Women don't have those sorts of problems.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Excuse me? Of course they do. Folds of skin are quite common on the female anatomy as well as moisture and lubrication. The male and female sexual organs are quite similar. That's why doctors can perform sex changes. The vagina is a penis inverted - tissue and functions, including secretions, are quite similar.

cozy 4 years, 5 months ago

Women's stuff helps clean it out, not just get build-up.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Not if they're lying in bed in a diaper and someone else is having to bath them. Those folds have to be opened and cleaned regardless of who they're folded on.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Ron, I'm sure there are many jobs in homes and hospitals that are not pleasant - cleaning up feces and or vomit or blood, etc., including amputations and infections. If you're in that type of a work environment, or alive, you're going to experience those health issues. And most are well underpaid.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Ron, I'm sure there are many jobs in homes and hospitals that are not pleasant - cleaning up feces and or vomit, blood, etc., including amputations and infections. If you're in that type of a work environment, or alive, you're going to experience those health issues. And most are well underpaid.

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

Hey, did you know they paid him a million dollars to make an XXX porn movie?

The title was 'John Wayne Bobbitt Uncut'. (1994)

Problem was, he spent all the money and ended up broke. And after that, no one was very interested in him anymore.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Cuzins. Always thinking about eating - regardless the topic!

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

There seem to be a lot of comments about circumcision being a Jewish practice.

Why is there no mention that it's also an important rite in Islam? Although for Muslims, it's usually done at 10 to 12 years of age.

I think the Jewish practice of doing it at the age of eight days is much better!

beatrice 4 years, 5 months ago

I would have taken part in this discussion, but I didn't want anyone accusing me again of having envy.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

You've met Bea? Now it's my turn to be jealous.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

I suspect that all depends more on 'the cowboy than anything else, as it does with those who have had the procedure. Ask someone like Why who admits being non surgically removed. If 2/3 of men are not having it done then it doesn't sound like an issue. More time for foreplay maybe?

riverdrifter 4 years, 5 months ago

I'm gonna have another shot of Knob Creek and think this over some more.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Keep your hands on the table at all times.

KUnlv13 4 years, 5 months ago

Quite impressive folks...would've certainly considered an LJW article on genitalia to be riddled with TOS violations...alas, we have Dems and 'Pubs commenting on foreskin in a civil manner! Now, back to that healthcare 'thang

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

I've been impressed as well. There have been three comments removed. I know because they were all made by my cuzin! Shame - shame. :)

jjt 4 years, 5 months ago

What is this story about? I just start reading it and then pass out. ;-))

independant1 4 years, 5 months ago

Awwww man! I thought circumcision was a holy day of obligation?

Frederic Gutknecht IV 4 years, 5 months ago

I don't give a rat's moyel. HEY! Where's my MOYEL?

I don't remember being cut/hurt but I'm pretty damned sure that I cried! I suspect my birth was no picnic, either. It does seem that humans/animals are, to a great extent, designed to accept and forget pain. If we're NOT, we SHOULD be.

I doubt that I would accept circumcision for myself of my child, but I can't see it as a great horror.

I still don't give a rat's moyel.

gravitykills 4 years, 5 months ago

My 2 yr old was circumcised on day 2. The whole process took maybe 10 seconds. The doctor even missed the membrane the first time and had to re-due the cut. I was expecting a scalpel or maybe scissors. The tool looked like a small pipe cutter. Anyway... he cried for a few seconds and that was it.

Now, at birth... he screamed for 5 minutes. But, I'm sure having your head compressed, smashed, and reformed to look like a cone, has gotta hurt. Was he given a choice?

I'll bet every baby in the womb would vote Caesarean section over vaginal delivery any day, given the choice. So, maybe SF will be the first city to put it to the vote November 2021. The 'it' being whether vaginal deliveries should be against the law.

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

Well, I don't know about that. My nephew was born C-section and the doc cut to deep. Sliced the baby's cheek. My nephew is nearly thirty now and still has the scar to show for it.

Frederic Gutknecht IV 4 years, 5 months ago

Scars are cool. I love mine. do you have a problem with yours?

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

I show off my scars at every opportunity.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Funny read, gravity! Good points. (your avatar scared me though)

One dispute - childbirth is natural but circumcision is not.

RoeDapple 4 years, 5 months ago

Ah, I "see" bobberboy could not resist commenting, even though he has been disapearededed and only very few can witness his "frustration" at not being able to share his poison with the rest of the readers on this "sensitive" topic.

RoeDapple 4 years, 5 months ago

For those of you who are wondering about ole Roe's apples( and if he may have lost 'em!), a former banned poster (disapearededed as we call it here) has been posting "ghost posties". In the style used that got him banned (yes, a him. at least he is discussing his own circumcision in his posts), innuendos, profanity and racist remarks abound.

Jealous of you, bobberboy? "HARDLY" (pun intended) Did I take my pills? Yes, the blue one . . (double pun intended)

RoeDapple 4 years, 5 months ago

bobberboy . . don't kid yourself . . . there is no spoon

;-)

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

10 white pills = 2 yellow pills = one blue pill.

whatadrag 4 years, 5 months ago

I don't understand why it should be illegal, when it could simply be an available choice. This is really a non-issue.

ferrislives 4 years, 5 months ago

"Should circumcision be criminal?" NO. Next question.

Boston_Corbett 4 years, 5 months ago

Has anyone ever taken a look at a list of all of Ronda's blogs and noticed how many of them are topically sexually related?

:)

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

I don't see how song title games, suicide, specific health foods, poetry, pawpaw etc., are sexually related, but I do know Boston Corbett seemed not to have a problem with snipping his own skin.

RoeDapple 4 years, 5 months ago

Is this too . . um, . . hard for you to discuss Boston?

;-)

Maybe missunderestimate (anonymous) would be more comfortable talkin' boutit.

I thought I was the one people said had the sexual inhibitions. . . . .

Fixed_Asset 4 years, 5 months ago

Sexual repression brought on by radical feminism perhaps?

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

"how many of them (Ronda's blogs) are topically sexually related?"

Let's take a look at Anna Undercover's blogs and make a comparison check!

RoeDapple 4 years, 5 months ago

Hey Ronda! Next blog!

"Inny Or Outty. Your Navel And What It Means To You".

I can even keep my same avatar!

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Funny you suggested that. My gfriend invented a cleaning device for belly bottoms. One side cleans the inny and one the outty

gravitykills 4 years, 5 months ago

Ronda... I agree 'childbirth is natural but circumcision is not'. On the other side of that coin, childbirth is natural but abortion is not.

Does that mean SF will be voting on an abortion ban in 2020? Hmmm... I doubt it. So, flip that coin.... heads I win, tails you lose!

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

One could just as well claim that childbirth is natural but adoption is not.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Circumcised? I'm ready when you are just let me know.

As far as the blog topic goes - adoption doesn't mean cutting a part of one's anatomy off. Again, let's let the of age male decide.

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

Oh, but it hurts so much when you're older! At least that's what I've been told.

To late for me to find out for myself!

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Gravity, I believe abortion is being voted on whenever we elect the politicians we choose. It isn't sequestered to San Fran. Nice try though.

gravitykills 4 years, 5 months ago

I doubt there will ever be an outright ban on abortion. It seems it has taken the place of the pill these days. And I will never see the day circumcision is banned.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

I'm hope you're wrong on both counts but I'm not holding my breath.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Lol. That was terrific. I wonder how many of them still had their hats on once the hats came off. :)

RoeDapple 4 years, 5 months ago

Why does a predominately male government determine women's childbirth/abortion issues? What do they know about giving birth?

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Touche'

Or design woman's heels and bras - not the government but males.

booyalab 4 years, 5 months ago

What does a woman who has never given birth before know about giving birth? By your logic, only women who have already had children should determine those issues.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

And where in my blog did I state that opinion? I am a mother and do have sexual partners, only one at a time though, so I've got some thoughts about the matter. I first realized how odd it was when it was under the chapter on child abuse in a sociology class many, many years ago

You're just upset that you've never recovered from the trauma of them cutting off your wrong head. :)

RoeDapple 4 years, 5 months ago

hmmm . . . LJW user since Nov 10,2010 . . . anybody else know who got disapeareded about a month ago?

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

You're just ticked because Sarah's still intact. :)

But you did just help me come up with a song for my other blog.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Not hardly! :)

Meaning she hasn't been mutilated by some odd cultural practice.

I'd not heard that about Curtis either.

RoeDapple 4 years, 5 months ago

Well . . . Seems michaelclayton got himself disapearededed . . . . again. Amazing how that works . . .

slang4d 4 years, 5 months ago

As the future mother of a baby boy, I've definitely thought about this and decided against circumcision. If taught proper hygiene (by his father hopefully! I don't want anything to do with it), there shouldn't be any issues with "cheese" and what not. Also, removing the foreskin does affect sexual pleasure. He can make the decision for himself when he's an adult, I really don't think it's my choice to make.

On top of all of this, my baby is having major surgery within days of his birth to correct a defect. Circumcision is a petty and stupid thing to worry about in the face of that!

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

Wishing you all the best in childbirth and the following surgery. Congratulations!!!!

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Slang, it sounds as though you've given this some thought. Someone just told me this morning about a case where twin boys were circumcised and one of them had a botched job and lost sensation because of nerve damage. There are surely similar cases and for no reason.

Does insurance cover the procedure? If so, I wonder when they will stop. It certainly sounds elective.

I'm sorry to hear about your infant son and his need for surgery. I hope all goes well - please keep us informed.

Erin Graham 4 years, 5 months ago

I appreciate your opinion and although we share different viewpoints on this matter, I'm not saying you're wrong. However, as with other 'scary medical procedures' for every one bizarre story, there are far more that go well. I'm not on here to argue any other point right now. It's 3am and I'm too tired to put much more thought into this right now :o)

geekin_topekan 4 years, 5 months ago

"Does insurance cover the procedure? " ++++ Good question. It raises another concern, that being over whether the state pays for the procedure in the case of the un-insured childbirth. Does a "welfare mom" get to decide whether her boy gets a circumcision or not?

Is outlawing the procedure a step for betterment for a maximum number of people? If it is a matter of preventative health care then the procedure should be allowed because the people (taxpayers) would be spared later expenses, but if it purely religious or personal taste it should not be covered by state funds.

Ronda Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Geekin, one would think it shouldn't be covered since it isn't automatically done and requires parental choice. Drops that are put in the newborns eyes to prevent blindness and other standard procedures are always done and the parent isn't asked. Soooo, I'll bet the state pays for those who are uninsured. One would think doctors would attempt to tell them not to have it.

It appears the procedure is certainly more about religion than necessity at this point.

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 5 months ago

I had something happen to me back then also. It was quite interesting, and I've never heard of anyone else that had anything like that happen to him. But unlike your friend, it did not happen unevenly. It fact, it looked as though it had been done intentionally.

But I had it surgically corrected when I was 30, so it's to late to show it to anyone now!

beeshlii 4 years, 4 months ago

the thing you refer to in my diaper is mine and he wants to wear his helmet.

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