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This Is Better Than That
"Whatever gets you through your life 'salright, 'salright, Do it wrong or do it right 'salright, 'salright, "
John Lennon's lyrics to "Whatever Gets You Through the Night.", have played through my head numerous times over the years, too numerous to mention.
Most of you reading this blog have at one time or another been in extreme pain, and whether that pain was physical, mental, or spiritual more than likely you have had many opportunities to feel the effects of how life changing and challenging pain can be.
Pain over the sudden loss of a loved one, news that someone you know and love has a terminal illness, or receiving a negative diagnose of a personal nature is indeed life changing.
Whether it is depression that is getting you down, temporary blues over the loss of a job, a physical ailment, or something more permanent, I hope you'll give the technique I"m talking about a chance to change your attitude by focusing in a more positive manner.
I didn't invent, "This is Better Than That", I don't even remember what it was called when I first heard about it, but the idea is that you begin each day with a mental list that you keep track of to compare what you have done as to being better than anything else that you experienced in the day.
Example: I wake up in excruciating pain, I turn over and the pain is slightly less. I say to myself, "This is better than that". Next I get out of bed and I feel the cool, smooth floor underneath my feet and I ask, "Is this better than the decreased pain of my earlier movement?"
If it is then it goes to the top of my list. Next item may be something as simple (and endearing) as seeing my child's smile and noticing he/she is missing a front tooth - this immediately goes to the top of my list.
The idea is that if we concentrate on always looking for the next best thing to put on the top of our list. we tend not to focus on the negative things; they are ignored or not as noticeable since they are not what we are paying attention to for our list.
At the end of the day, as your head touches the pillow and just seconds before you drift off to sleep. spend a minute or two thinking about your list and remember as you go through all of the positive things that occurred in your day which one of them was better than all the rest.
If you have been used to thinking in a negative manner, are seriously depressed over a diagnosis, it might take awhile to retrain your thinking pattern. You DO have control over how you LOOK at things that are happening, or have happened, in your life even though you may not have control over what actually happens or happened. Take back some of the control by how you choose to look at things and don't forget to ask, "Is this better than that"?
What techniques or tools have you utilized to help you transition through a difficult time period or loss?
We have had numerous losses within our community over the past couple of months - what advice would you give to those people who have lost a loved one to help them make it through their life?
16 July 2008
at 8:57 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
The good thing about Sunday is..
that it's 6 more days until it's Sunday again.
-Pollyanna
16 July 2008
at 11:09 a.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
multi, I know you have experienced several losses in your life and have a major pain issue - what techniques have worked for you from a moment to moment basis?
I know some therapists work with teaching, “In the moment” techniques, but for those who are presently experiencing severe pain or depression they want about anything except being in the moment.
On a personal level I know having something to look forward to and helping others seem to make a difference for me.
16 July 2008
at 2:37 p.m.
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dancemomx2 (Anonymous) says…
ronda - i try to teach my children to enjoy today. not to live in the past. there are always going to be struggles in everyone's life. i think the more family and friends you have, you are going to have something happen that you have no control over. i've learned from trials with my children and losses that i have to just enjoy your life as each day comes and to love. we can't worry about what others my think about us and we just need to be there for each other. i am so thankful for my family and friends, even the new ones here. life will continue to bring struggle and loss, let us just enjoy today as it is
16 July 2008
at 2:44 p.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
Losing one child has the benefit of making one.. dead inside so to speak. It helps with other losses, even that of another child. Does this mean I don't care and it doesn't affect me? No. But it does guard me against the risk of having feelings for others, on a personal level. Actually, I believe the deadening started as a young child when my Father died. I didn't cry at all when two of my siblings died later. Of course, one of them used to beat me and had serious issues causing the family ongoing pain, so that death was a blessing.
I have CCPTSD from the experiences, and distraction is an important tool for me. Since I'm limited in what I can do, it's currently TV, Internet. It's hard to keep my attention, most things just aren't interesting enough to sit through the pain and anxiety.
I used to take long drives and listen to music.
In my younger/body-abled years, I was a project goddess, and always had something to do. A workaholic of sorts.
In my much younger years, I buried myself in musical instruments (practiced the piano 4 hrs a day), pets, work (worked up to 40 while still in high school) and friends. I had great friends back then.
A fast car, music, air mattress and a lake were once the most important things in my life. I made a bad choice when those things were no longer high on my priority list.
And of course, torturing young men was a good distraction.
Today is a great day for being on a raft all day on a lake. Burning to a crisp day after day, peeling like a snake, freaking out the little kids with the strips of dead skin.. (and have the skin cancer to prove it! LOL) Skinny dipping at the Boy Scout lake, floating on the telephone pole with 20 other people, most strangers.
I miss those years.
16 July 2008
at 2:49 p.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
I just sent a burnt red email to one of my old dipping buddies. Telling him we need to be at the lake today.
That's gonna trigger some memories and brighten his day, hehe.
16 July 2008
at 2:58 p.m.
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dancemomx2 (Anonymous) says…
multi - it sounds like you had some good years mixed in with those awful ones. everyone handles situation in different ways and what every works best for you is what you should do. from other comments i've read of yours, it seems as though you have some great friends on here. just think of all those awesome memories when things go bad.
16 July 2008
at 3:52 p.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
Thanks dance mom.
16 July 2008
at 3:57 p.m.
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dancemomx2 (Anonymous) says…
sure multi! i think sometimes we just need to listen. i pretty new to posting comments on here but have been “peeking over the fence” for some time. there are a few posters who seem like they would be awesome people, others, well you know. i sometimes feel better after i've spewed my problems on someone else and in return i will be there when they need me. so just hang in there.
16 July 2008
at 4:06 p.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
dancemom, I agree doing things with friends and family are high on my list when I am having a dificult day. Sometimes just letting them cry while I listen - or the other way around - is a lifesaver. One of the hardest things in my life has been the inability to be able to lessen anyone's pain in a loss.
The knowledge that grief lasts a lifetime is a difficult one, but it helps to know that our incredible minds somehow find a way for us to go on. Even at the times we don't want to.
I watched CNN a lot this weekend with the recent release of the hostages and they said several times that the six year period they had in captiivity gave them a lot of opportunities to really think about what was important in life. Every one of them said what was important was their family. They are blessed to realize this before it was too late, they are blessed to be free to act on that knowledge. It won't be easy for them since life for the rest of their family had to continue onward also. Hopefully, the rest of the family is intact and all of them able to have some peace and joyful moments together.
multi, the losses I had very early on in my life certainly made me the person I am today (good and bad if I want to view them in that manner), and for some of that I am thankful. I do realize that I don't trust people, but I have learned to trust myself and that has been a huge step.
I see in you, as I do in my brother and sister, a keen sense of humor with a cutting, knife like edge. You have wonderful memories that you share with us, you have one of the funniest senses of humor of anyone I know, and you are obviously keenly intelligent. For me just being aware of the extent of pain we can have ongoing in our lives - both physical and mental - I hope makes me a better, more aware, kinder person.
I know this is a difficult topic for most of us to discuss, but I am hoping that others will step up at this time and give words of caring advice to others within our community right now who are experiencing their losses.
Thanks Dancemom and multi!
17 July 2008
at 9:49 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
Deep breath - here goes.
In the business I'm in, there are too many days when it just seems pointless, like I should change my name to Don Quixote and call it a day. But I knew that going in. I knew I wasn't going to win 'em all. Statistics say it should be less than half of them, and in the words of Joyce Rebeta-Burditt from one of my favorite books, 'This game is more serious than most : the losers often die.' We (my co-workers and I) frequently walk around asking “Remind me again, what was it that made us think going into this line of work was a *good* idea?' But then, every once in a while, more seldom than the bluest of moons, perhaps, and always from an unexpected source, it happens just a sentence, a phrase, a word, a momentary glimmer in a patient's eye the one that says it made a difference.
“Losing one child has the benefit of making one.. dead inside so to speak. It helps with other losses, even that of another child. Does this mean I don't care and it doesn't affect me? No. But it does guard me against the risk of having feelings for others, on a personal level.”
Multi, I've never had that particular loss. Having children of my own, I can imagine no worse. I would never presume to say anything as stupid as 'I know how you feel' or try to compare the losses in my own life to yours. But I do understand, in my own way, what you mean about allowing your feelings to die.
So long ago my life back then might as well have been on a different planet. A different life, but one I remember well enough to wonder at the reaction of a community that finds it unusual to have a string of tragedies such as ours, a community where tragedy *isn't* the daily norm.
So many of them:
(continued)
17 July 2008
at 9:49 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
(continued)
And of course one in particular. There's always one in particular. I was so young, and we were together for such a short time before : before three bullets put an end to everything. So sudden, so brutal, and completely, totally, utterly meaningless she was killed because she was a witness to the shooting of someone else, but the someone else lived managed to crawl to a phone to get help, and the shooter was picked up the same night. She died for nothing.
Nothing.
The tricks we try, as time passes even to the point of questioning if it ever meant anything, if the feelings were ever there how could they be, in such a short time, when I was so young? And yet, more than 30 years later, I can still see her face. I can still hear her voice. I can see her like it was today, wearing a denim vest, a blue bandanna in her hair, leaning on the jukebox, singing along to Elton John and Kiki Dee, one of the two songs I used to tease her about playing way too much:
Just as I can see the smiling face of a two year old, the last child of my best friends, glancing over her shoulder where she sat playing in the middle of the living room floor as I walked out the door, just seven hours before the fire:
Just as the last words of another dear friend sounded as if they were coming from his own mouth (because I know that's exactly what he would have said: “That had better be loaded, and if it is, you'd better use it”), but it was only the radio news report, repeating the account of an eye-witness who was in the room when the shotgun went off less than a foot from his face, doing what the news euphemistically reported as the 'maximum possible damage' :
(continued)
17 July 2008
at 9:50 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
(continued)
I think sometimes of a teenage boy who was never quite right in the head when the police showed up on a report that he had broken into a relative's house, only because she wasn't home to let him in so he went in the window, and the first shot was fired towards the police car, they fired tear gas in for over two hours before entering the house to find out that the second shot they heard:
Another young man, this one brilliant at one time, smart enough to manufacture his own hallucinogenics, foolish enough to sample them too much himself, walking off into the woods one day with a rope:
The one who died in the crash just 150 feet from his driveway, in full view of his mother's window : The one that tried to keep his drunken girlfriend from driving away and slipped, and fell beneath the car:
Just a few : a few of way, way too many : even the ones that went of more natural causes : my cousin's wife, the one that raised those three perfect girls, the one who, in all the years I knew her, not once not once was there ever a smile missing from her face : of cancer, at 42:
So many, and so *fast* - not fast in the sense of here one moment and gone the next, although there was that, too, but just one after another, an endless litany, dozens in a period of time somewhat less than most of us spend in high school. Wanting to make it stop, shell-shocked, overwhelmed, *wishing* the feelings would go away, that my emotions were as dead as they were. Except the anger the blind, unfocused anger, coming close to explosive rage when the priest the priest I knew since I was a child, that I respected, admired, that would later on make an exception and come out of his illness-imposed retirement to perform my own wedding when he said the words 'God has called our sister,' thinking God should have found a better way to 'call' than three bullets to the back of the head:
And then letting even the anger die:
(continued)
17 July 2008
at 9:50 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
(continued)
Oh, you can stop the pain. It can be shut off. I did it for years. Mostly with the assistance of various chemicals, I found it was possible to not feel the pain anymore. But the cost the awful cost. The warning signs that inkling that the pain is coming back that nagging little wisp, like a faint smell, like somewhere in the house there's an electrical line overheating, somewhere you can't see, somewhere you can't reach. How do you find it, make it stop before it flares up? You can run to the basement, frantic, panicked, shutting off one breaker after another, waiting, watching, sensing, waiting for it to come back, trying desperately to find out if you've shut off the right one, if you've made it stop. But no too urgent too risky can't take the chance flip the main, shut it all off. There safe it can't get you, it can't hurt you. As long as you sit there, in the dark, in the cold, in the silence:
Emotions are like that. They come as a set. Oh, yes, they can be shut down. They can be killed off. As a set. You can stop the pain. You can stop the loneliness, the emptiness. The hurt, the despair. The hopelessness. You won't feel any of them. But then, there's also no joy. No excitement. No cheer, no courage, no humor. No love.
No hope.
It's a very old saying. Often it sounds trite, and in the face of tragedy, too often it sounds hollow, even mocking. But despite its timelessness, it's as true today as it was when it first entered the thought of a human mind eons ago: “Where there's life there's hope.”
We live in difficult, often seemingly desperate times. We are bombarded by tragedy, in the world, in our community, in our personal lives. Yes, all too often, it seems like that's all there is that the days where things are bad will never stop, and we wonder what's the point, and why should we go on? The good times the elusive, fleeting, too-long-ago good times, there just aren't enough of them. And then, out of the blue, from a direction we never expected, it happens, just like it happens at work. There's that one moment, that one sound, that one smile on someone's face - that one person/place/thing/situation/word/color/gathering/star/tree/pet/scent/*feeling* that makes it okay, if only for a moment. That makes it bearable. That makes us go on. That let's us know that it may be bad, but it's not *all* bad.
(continued)
17 July 2008
at 9:50 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
(continued)
And when it gets too hard, when it seems like it's all too much? I have a secret weapon. Many people believe they have a guardian angel. I've met mine. I know her name. I've seen her standing there, her long dark hair pulled back under a blue bandanna, her slim form veiled in denim. And when the darkness falls, when the light at the end of the tunnel is too far off to imagine let alone see, when the pit rises up and looms over me, trying to swallow me I can see her face. When it's all spinning out of control, when it's all being torn away from me, when I'm left behind, and it's all seemingly too far out of my grasp I can hear her voice. And I know that everything that's gone before, all the good times and all the misery, all the laughter and all the pain, all the sunshine and all the tears, have put me where I am today which is exactly where I'm supposed to be. And there's a reason I am where I am, and why I do what I do, why all the things that brought me here had to happen I don't always know what the reasons are, but that's okay now.
And I still let myself feel the pain. It doesn't stop. I can learn to live with it, but it never goes away, and sometimes it still hurts more than I think I can bear. But that's okay too. Because the pain tells me I'm alive.
And where there's life, there's hope.
17 July 2008
at 10:16 p.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
You people do not get it!
Whatever created this universe does not a give a whit for what happens in it.
People are born, the live and then they die.
There is nothing that you can do about it and there is therefore no point in making yourself crazy.
There is no rhyme, there is no reason; “stuff” just happens!
Take a tour of a children's cancer ward and then tell me all about your “Loving God”!
Look online at the photos of the starving children in Africa and then tell me to pray to your “Loving God” which allows this to happen.
Take a walk with me to the grave of my 14 year-old brother who died from a brain hemmorage induced by an allergy to wool; Poison From The Lamb and then talk to me about your Bronze Age God!
Grow up, people.
Ain't no free lunch and there ain't no “god” that gives a Damn.
17 July 2008
at 10:46 p.m.
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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…
Marion: “There is no rhyme, there is no reason; “stuff” just happens!”
I agree with Marion…
There is no reason whatsoever to believe that things happen for a reason.
( … except that… maybe they do. )
,;-)
17 July 2008
at 11:01 p.m.
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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…
Marion: “Ain't no free lunch and there ain't no “god” that gives a Damn.”
You'll have to forgive Marion. It's the rabies talking.
It's a little known fact that Marion actually raised me, so to speak, from a pup ( and he has the ankle scars to prove it ) .
And though my rearing among wolves hasn't hurt me none, I can read the writing on this wall.
But timeworn and hydrophobic, sometimes he no longer recognizes me, let alone himself, and… oh… look at that… his water dish is empty….
Let me refill it for him….
17 July 2008
at 11:30 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
Well, Marion, you mentioned 'god' four times in your post - which was twice the total in the thread before your post. And nobody mentioned a 'loving god' - the only two previous mentions were a reference to my own bitterness at the concept. So I - the only person who mentioned 'god' before you did - have to say I'm a little confused as to what 'we' “don't get.”
I am sorry for your loss, Marion. But I would add one thing to one of your points:
People are born, they live and then they die - and the rest of us go on the best we can.
17 July 2008
at 11:39 p.m.
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RedwoodCoast (Anonymous) says…
Marion: Personally, I've come to the conclusion that we can't tell if there is 'something.' We're born, we live, we die; the only parts we can really have any control over is what lies in between birth and death. Hey, we can even control our death, but that is a decision we make while living. So, I guess the gist is that we just have to try and make the best of this thing we call life. I don't really care if there is a 'creator' or a 'cosmic purpose,' and I really doubt that there is. We should all seek happiness to the point that it does not infringe upon the ability of others to do the same. Yeah, this isn't realistic, but it would be nice.
Regardless, human beings are spiritual creatures. They need a reason why things happen. Some cultures call it witchcraft, some call it pathology; the common thread is that it is human nature to seek out the 'whys.' We can't tolerate what we cannot understand without becoming nervous, nihilistic, or even murderous or suicidal.
An inherent characteristic of the human condition is the ability to experience this thing we call 'spirituality.' Some people need a doctrine in order to connect to it. Some only need to see their favorite music artist perform. Others need to emote through artistic endeavors. Regardless, this is a human desire that often gets thwarted by the unexplained. I don't really know what to tell you, Marion, but all we have is this life. Try to enjoy some part of this existence; for all we know—crappy as it may often be, it is all we have.
I recently watched some Ken Burns documentaries on Lewis and Clark, Mark Twain, and Thomas Jefferson. These were stories about some very tortured people who somehow were able to do amazing things through all of the BS in their lives. It really put things into perspective for me.
17 July 2008
at 11:50 p.m.
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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…
One more, and then I am outta here…
jbtw: “I know some therapists work with teaching, “In the moment” techniques, but for those who are presently experiencing severe pain or depression they want about anything except being in the moment.”
Your expression, “In the moment,” caught my attention. Here's another take on that notion…
I began running this past year, at an advanced age and carrying more weight than I needed. Outfitted with cross-trainers and an iPod, I mapped a mile-long path ( two miles, round trip ) and made a commitment to pound the path daily.
It was exhilarating… it was a chore.
I began focusing on the sound in my head ( iPod ) to provide the wind in my sails, as I traversed the increasingly familiar path-it becoming “the back of my hand” with each stride. I spent as much time off the path as on, selecting and arranging the music which would propel me over the course.
And then one day, I had a transformative experience. Unexpectedly, i found myself “in the moment” *independent* of the path, and my *burden* simply dissipated. I began completing my runs, stride unbroken, and it didn't matter at all what music was playing in my head. The *soundtrack* had become background music, and I was free.
Anyway… the moment, independent of the path… life lived, free(r) of its burdens.
18 July 2008
at 12:05 a.m.
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RedwoodCoast (Anonymous) says…
Oh, and Rhonda: This is a good strategy. Unfortunately for me, one side of my family tends to have a predisposition for depression. Yay heredity. Your suggestion is very good, but in some instances, chemistry can trump effort. I've discovered this the hard way. I will, however, try to use your suggestion for my own potential benefit.
18 July 2008
at 12:06 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
The only true spirituality is deeply connected animalistic great sex for both parties.
(rolls eyes)
Possible next lines:
1) Well, I can dream, can't I?
2) Hmmm, I seem to remember something like that.
3) Who was that masked man?
4) The only good ones are …(insert ending of your choice).
18 July 2008
at 12:26 a.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
“4) The only good ones are :(insert ending of your choice).”
…'furniture polishers.'
18 July 2008
at 12:40 a.m.
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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…
Multidisciplinary: “The only true spirituality is deeply connected animalistic great sex for both parties.”
( OK, I lied… )
When I first read your post, I read “annihilistic” ( not even a word… pet peeves… ) instead of “animalistic.”
ANYWAY, whether or not “the only,” there certainly is nothing which comes close to that momentless moment when all boundaries dissolve between two bodies.
18 July 2008
at 12:59 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
Funny, I started to write that, got distracted by incoming emails, and while I was doing those, you and Redwood posted. So when I posted that, it came out of order.
lol
I applaud your ability to run at all.
Even when I'm thin, my body is too messed up to do that. Heck, even as a kid, my body is too stretchy to run. As in, I take off like hell moving ahead of others, then foot/ankle over extends and pops painfully, so I limp along until the pain subsides, then start again. Same things happens in swimming, the force of the water against that foot pushes it too far down like the running stroke does.
What qualifies as 'advanced age'?
Ronda gives me a hard time for calling myself an old woman.
Another friend, 50 writes about his being an old man. Of course, he writes this in response to our memory sharing of good times long gone, when we were wild and fancy free.
PS Tangi,
You've made it even harder for me to guess whether you're a man or woman, lol
Congrats. Just when I think I know….
I know… the threads make me think of the show Gay, Straight or Taken!
I used to have a girlfriend named gay, so when I read gayokay's posts, my brain said female.
Nope. He's a man.
Good times on the boards.
lol
18 July 2008
at 1:11 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
Redwood,
I think sometimes depression is overrated. They call me depressed. But I've been this way since I was perhaps a teen. Maybe some before, I just have glimpses of back then.
I think some 'lives' are just so daunted by numerous and/or bad things, that a person adjusts into a depression like state. It creates fewer ups and downs, maybe it's a natural protective response..”don't get happy or get your hopes up, life is just going to rip the ladder out from under you again” change.
Maybe it's a learned response.
Like people with Borderline (which they are trying to do away with the 'disorder name' because they now think it just one of many human coping skills)..Which comes first, the parent of the normal child that makes the child act borderline, or does the borderline child make the parent react the way they do? (I saw a group of potential borderline men and women all spontaneously answer it was the parents fault..that was fun.)
I also wonder if some people can stop producing SRI's completely. Or their body just doesn't use them to the good extent that other's brains do. I've taken most every antidepressant on the books, and the outcome from the docs/therapists is..”You know, your life IS just hell, and you're having a natural reaction to it”.
Maybe nota or gnome can answer the SRI query.
18 July 2008
at 1:14 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
hehe..
Tangi says,
ANYWAY, whether or not “the only,” there certainly is nothing which comes close to that momentless moment when all boundaries dissolve between two bodies.
–
You mean we dated the same professor?
;)
18 July 2008
at 1:15 a.m.
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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…
“PS Tangi, You've made it even harder for me to guess whether you're a man or woman, lol Congrats. Just when I think I know:.”
Hmm… that comes as a surprise… male… but unlike all those “Trophy Husbands” out there, I'm more of a “lesbian” at heart… a lesbian with *benefits*.
,;-D
18 July 2008
at 1:19 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
big LOL.
I can only wonder of what you might mean by that.
18 July 2008
at 2:08 a.m.
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SusieCreamcheeze (Anonymous) says…
Nelson Mandela celebrated his 90th birthday today. He spent over 11 years on “Blue Bird Island” in a two-square -metre cell. He never gave up hope.
I sit in my home and contimplate the rest of the world. So many have suffering we can not even begin to comphrend. You may have lost a loved one but you had that loved one long enough to grow to love them.
I don't think anyone who has access to the internet , a roof over there head, and family should complain. There will always be someone somewhere who has greater suffering.
18 July 2008
at 2:11 a.m.
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SusieCreamcheeze (Anonymous) says…
Sorry my bad…Robben Island….I must be tired
18 July 2008
at 7:41 a.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
Not sure what you mean by 'SRI's.” Are you referring to the last three letters of SSRI's, the category of antidepressants? That stands for (I'm sure you knew this) Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. Yes, some people have a shortage of serotonin (a neurotransmitter which helps regulate some emotions); SSRI's don't give you more serotonin, they help keep the amount your body makes from being reabsorbed (part of the natural cycle) so there's more available for use. The description I usually use is a frog trying to cross a moving stream by hopping from lily pad to lily pad; when there's a shortage of lily pads, blocking the stream keeps the few that are there from flowing away so they pile up.
18 July 2008
at 9:35 a.m.
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RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Anonymous) says…
To deep for me, I'll be wading in the kiddie pool.
18 July 2008
at 9:51 a.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
I appreciate that some of you have been willing to come on a public forum such as this and leak some of your soul into our lives. Nota, I have so much respect for you to be able to talk about things that were/are so obviously painful in your life - yes, the losses you had have made you an incredible human being. Would you have the understanding, the depth of emotion otherwise? We won't know the answer to that.
My mother's suicide made me retreat into a world of fantasy - I learned to soothe myself, rock myself, cradle and hold myself, but it took decades to learn to love myself. When my niece died at the same age by the same method two years ago as did my mother I had almost an opposite reaction. I felt joyful, freed, loving, alive, (I mourn her with every cell/atom in my being), but I was so grateful to have known her - she was so very easy to love. I find myself creating a life for her - each year on her birthday I complile a list of things that she has done the past year: got married, is pregant, what she looks like, how much time we spend together. Yes, she continues on in my mind and in my heart. When my father was murdered I was afraid, horrified, saw his dead face in every closet I opened, every car driving by, in the mirror behind my own face - I was as close to insane as I (hopefully) will ever become. Gradually his face became the young father I remembered before my mother's death instead of the ghoul I saw at his funeral. It takes time, but the mind and body and spirit do heal - they want to heal - they want to live with promise and hope.
marion, you are a good man. I understand your comments about God, I understand your bitterness. Let the guard down and just simply love. The losses will be there regardless so we may as well choose to live the rest of our lives with open arms instead of closed ones.
I understand about the “in the moment” feeling when it comes to exercise and forgetting all else. Some do it with drugs, music, exercise, sex. But you first have to take a little tiny step of hope in some direction to be able to get started. I hope all of you who have been caring enough to make a comment on this post will continue to communicate with other people about your feelings and losses. Believe it or not I learned something new today and you have made a difference in my life! Thank you! (multi, I know you will keep talking! We count on you! :) - an nota, if I were to trust my pain, emotions, to anyone it would be you.
18 July 2008
at 10:02 a.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
The Other World
4-05-07
Sometimes your voice,
So muffled from the other world
That I can scarely hear it,
Sounds like drowning death throes
Whispering to me in the night.
It makes me want to reach out
Grasp your pale and slender hand
And pull you back to life,
Back into my world
The one you left behind.
Know that I feel your breath
Close to my heart
Nothingness now keeps us apart
I do hear your incessant
Woeful sounds as they
Continue to lull me to sleep.
18 July 2008
at 10:22 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
Sorry nota, my very late night post (for me) was rather condensed/inexplicit and poorly written.
I got ya on the SSRIs etc.
What I wondered is:
Since some people don't respond to a plethora of so many antidepressants, is it just possible, that some people produce no serotonin at all, thus there is none for the blocking power of the SSRI's to 'dam up'?
Or, could some people's brain just not respond to serotonin at all, either from birth or some change later?
Like, if you have 100 bowls, and you put red in each. Then you add blue. All of them turn purple, except for 1. Speculation demands that something has to be odd, right?
I've always wanted to be part of some of the brain research due to various things. Like my previous ability to process things faster, and better memory. Friends and family used to say I must be using more of my brain than 'normal' folks. And also that my brain never shut off. People say, they have times where they aren't thinking about anything, just resting.
Doesn't happen here, my brain even solves problems while I'm asleep.. it will wake me up with the solution..when I was dreaming about something else, or not dreaming at all.
18 July 2008
at 10:41 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
(multi, I know you will keep talking! We count on you! :)
-Ronda
====
I'm not so sure everyone is counting on me Ronda, I think there are many who if given a 'ignore this poster button' I would be one they delete!
;)
18 July 2008
at 10:49 a.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
I think you might just be very surprised on that one. Maybe we should do a blog and take a poll. No, I wouldn't want that done about me either - well we ignore the nay sayers, right?
18 July 2008
at 10:57 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
I have just seen I'm one of the folks being lambasted on the sick leave thread. I really have never abused the system. I went to work sick a lot. Only stayed home when I was terribly ill, even though I know it's bad to spread germs. I was raised with a very serious work ethic, and I know my employers are depending on my presence. (How could they get along without me? LOL)
Someone else wrote (a nice person) and said they disagreed with almost everything I say.
Interesting to hear.
So I was thinking, maybe I read this darned thing too much!
Moving will take up more time soon, if I can get boxes.
Am supposed to hear about the house today. I don't believe in horoscopes as far as day to day goes, but mine today didn't show lots of promise, hee hee.
Thanks for your support, I try.
18 July 2008
at 11:03 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
But then, one can always finish their viewing pleasure with lolcats and dogs, etc!
http://icanhascheezburger.wordpress.c…
18 July 2008
at 11:09 a.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
multi, I haven't read that blog - I'll go check it out. People need to stay home when they are sick, they need to keep their children home when they are sick too. We need more parenting and it is a shame a lot of people (alot of single moms) don't have someone to help them out!
18 July 2008
at 11:22 a.m.
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Logan72 (Alia Ahmed) says…
Multi
Have you ever read Thomas Moore's book, “Care of the Soul”? One of the chapters is entitled “The Gifts of Depression”. Depression is a complicated thing and sometimes we rush to simply fix it. I truly believe anti-depressants have been a godsend for many people, but I think people can use the experience of depression to search for deeper meaning in their lives. Just a thought. Not that I'd wish depression on anyone, but Thomas Moore gives us another way to frame it.
18 July 2008
at 11:31 a.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
Thanks,
If I run across it, I'll look into it.
Yes Ronda, everyone should enjoy the lolcat sites. They have links to their other funny sites across the top of the page.
It's:
http://icanhascheezburger.com/
Cats crave cheezburgers, didn't you know!
To get you up to speed, dogs crave hotdogs, and walrus just want his “bukkit” back.
There's a lolspeak site there where you can learn what they are saying if it's not making sense.
And you can make your own. Put your puppy pics into cyber, or keep just for yourself.
18 July 2008
at 11:49 a.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
Very interesting, multi! Thanks I'll try to check it out over the much needed upcoming weekend.
Alia, thanks for the mention of the book. If anyone else has a book that has helped them out or helped them see things in a different, more postive, light please share! :)
18 July 2008
at 12:22 p.m.
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RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Anonymous) says…
If anyone else has a book that has helped them out or helped them see things in a different, more postive, light please share! :)
The Bible?
18 July 2008
at 12:31 p.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
The Bible has helped millions of people, as have other books from other religions or those of a spiritual nature. Thanks!
18 July 2008
at 1:39 p.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
Parenting book.
Loving your child is not enough-Positive Discipline that Works.
It brings child rearing more down to something more simple that children (of all ages) respond to, and also helps parents understand so much. Worked just great with my first two. People would ask me how I got my kids to be so polite and cooperative. Part is instinct, and also this book. (Last child had too many cooks in his kitchen.. messed up the system)
I have to say it has some things that are very close to training dogs. You don't harp on a pet about their behaviour and tell them they ought to be more like so and so. You simply use short commands.
As in, many tell their kids, “Why do you always come home and drop your books everywhere, you've done this everyday this week, this place is always a mess, why don't you listen to me?!?!?”
Kids tune that out.
What does work is “Jason. Books!!”
It reminds the child without belittling them.
The book also discusses reasons for communication break down..things we don't think about.
An easy read, larger print, not too long. A good bathroom book if you must.
I see they are quite cheap used on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Loving-Child-En…
18 July 2008
at 2:14 p.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
reticent_irreverent (Anonymous) says:
If anyone else has a book that has helped them out or helped them see things in a different, more postive, light please share! :)
The Bible?
–-
Somehow I would have imagined you say more like “The Happy Hooker” by Xaviera Hollander.
You continue to amaze me R_I.
;)
18 July 2008
at 4:32 p.m.
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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…
“If anyone else has a book that has helped them out or helped them see things in a different, more postive, light please share! :)”
The Little Prince: Dedication… and Lesson
To Leon Werth
I ask the indulgence of the children who may read this book for dedicating it to a grown-up. I have a serious reason: he is the best friend I have in the world. I have another reason: this grown-up understands everything, even books about children. I have a third reason: he lives in France where he is hungry and cold. He needs cheering up. If all these reasons are not enough, I will dedicate the book to the child from whom this grown-up grew. All grown-ups were once children—although few of them remember it. And so I correct my dedication:
To Leon Werth
When he was a little boy
“Goodbye,” said the fox. “And now here is my secret, a very simple secret: It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.”
18 July 2008
at 4:36 p.m.
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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…
AND… a line from one of my favorite films, Twin Falls Idaho,
now sadly out-of-print…
“In time, every sad ending will become happy… the sad ending is only because the author stops telling the story, but the story still goes on…
it is just… untold.”
18 July 2008
at 5:45 p.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
I have known several people who love, “The Little Prince”, , but I would disagree that every sad ending will become happy - it may end up untold, but not “happy”. It is okay that things just are - they need not be happy.
18 July 2008
at 6:13 p.m.
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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…
Go ahead… rain on my private Idaho…
,;-D
18 July 2008
at 8:32 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
Thanks, Ronda. I wasn't too sure if I should post all that.
Multi;
lots of things can cause a serotonin deficiency. Long-term meth use, for example. But it's also often caused by a poor diet (eat more turkey - you need tryptophan to make serotonin). I've never heard of someone not producing *any* and I'm not sure the brain would function without it. But the theory behind the SSRI's is that some people don't have enough - and you don't generally medicate for something that has an identified cause, you fix the cause (e.g. have the person stop using meth or improve their diet), so the theory pretty much assumes some people have too little naturally. If you peruse the PDR sometime, though, you'll find over and over and over again that this drug or that drug works through an “unknown mechanism.” Some studies have been done where serotonin levels were depleted without causing depression, and a major influx of serotonin didn't alleviate depression in others. On the other hand, the SSRI's work for an awful lot of people.
People react to different drugs in different ways. Even the same family of drugs will work (or not) differently in the same person - Zoloft might not do anything for you, but Paxil might; Paxil might cause you to have side effects, Celexa won't. And all of those might be reversed in the next person. Although all the SSRI's are supposed to block serotonin reuptake, they don't all do it the same way.
On top of all that, there's a ton of other problems that can cause depression besides low serotonin levels. Starting with the fact that some people have things to be depressed *about*.
18 July 2008
at 8:42 p.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
nota, so if I am hearing you correctly having depression because of an issue such as loss of loved one, health issue - doesn't have anything to do with serotonin levels? But if I become depressed due to an outside factor does my depression cause my serotonin level to drop?
nota, as you know from your profession, the more we get people to talk about issues that will affect all of us at one time or another is a wonderful thing. It takes someone such as multi or yourself sometimes to get the ball rolling. I was silent for so many years following my mother's death because no one would allow me to talk, pretty much the same with my father's death. I am so relieved to be talking about these issues after all this time. It reassures my decision to talk when people such as you step forward with a voice to your pain as well. We are all in this together whether we want to accept that or not so we may as well be open and assist others. If I have found some small measure of comfort in my life I certainly would want to share it. Acknowledging our pain is sometimes enough in and of itself.
tange, okay - forgive me. All things end happy. I didn't read many fairy tales as a youth and I am regretting it now! :)
18 July 2008
at 9:01 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
Ronda;
studies show that cognitive therapy is equally as effective as medication in alleviating depression. There's two possible reasons for this that I can think of offhand.
They have done studies with rats negotiating a maze with a probe in their brains (for obvious reasons, I don't think they can repeat this with humans), and certain neurotransmitter levels were observed to be changing as the rats learned; so one possibility is that yes, life experiences may change serotonin levels.
On the other hand, it also might be that each are effective for different types of people. That is, if both are effective 40% of the time, it might be that 40% of people are depressed because of a chemical imbalance and 40% because of their thought processes (and content), and the two treatments aren't interchangeable. For example, other studies have found no difference between the effectiveness of several kinds of substance abuse treatment - residential vs. outpatient vs. therapeutic communities vs. 12-step groups etc. But the one thing that *has* been found to increase positive outcomes is 'treatment matching' - putting the right client into the right kind of treatment. Which suggests, at least to me, that there's different mechanisms at work between this person that loses control of their drug use and that person who loses control of their drug use. While the success rate is, I believe, somewhat less than 40% for each kind of treatment, if the right people were in the right treatments, theoretically you might conceivably get closer to 100% overall. In other words, there may be some 'biological' addicts where medication can address the issue, people who have poor impulse control where behavioral methods might help, people self-medicating some personal trauma where cognitive therapy would be best, etc.
18 July 2008
at 9:39 p.m.
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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…
“studies show that cognitive therapy is equally as effective as medication in alleviating depression.”
So, I say, AWAY with the measured toxins.
BTW, y'all, I wandered over here after I heard you talking across the fence, and what I've discovered since has been wholly unexpected. Are these various testimonials all true? Can so much loss and tragedy reside in one backyard? I didn't even know what CCPTSD referred to ( though I was relatively sure it must have been acquired at Chernobyl ).
And, hey, Karma Policewoman, when I read your sidewalk reply, this morn, I empathized big time, having suffered through a low-back ailment which persisted for weeks, leaving me unable to get a night's sleep or even to find a comfortable position when reclining-literally spinning in frustrated attempts to escape the pain. Well, all that has subsided, but my heart goes out to anyone who must endure chronic pain.
So, is this the survivors' group? As you can see, I routinely wander away from mine ( t_r anon ).
18 July 2008
at 9:42 p.m.
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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…
Oh boy, rats, now we're talking my language!
We used to go to SnowHall, on the days that they euthanized excess mice, sometimes rats. They would take a large feed bag, (just like a 40 lb purina dog chow bag) and open it. They then would open lots and lots of cages and dump 50-100 mice in the bag. When they were done, they would close up the bag and put what I'm guessing was a CO2 hose in the bag, leave it closed for a few minutes, then hand it to us.
We took it to the high school and froze them in smaller portions of course. The guys had to pry the metal cleats off of the top of their heads where they had been used for studies. Not all snakes will eat a dead thawed mouse.
I love rats!
Thanks for the info nota.
I was staying at a hospital once, and sitting in the lobby area of the floor they rolled out this tray of sandwiches for the evening snack.
They brought out turkey sandwiches.
Me and my big mouth said aloud to the nurses (male and female) bringing them out.
I get it! You're trying to knock everyone out with the tryptophan!
One quickly said, shhhhh, They don't know that!
It was so funny.
Group drugging to clear the floor for bedtime.
18 July 2008
at 9:48 p.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
nota,
I appreciate the time you spent explaining this - makes sense that there are obviously the different reasons for depression which in turn would require different treatment. I have done quite a bit of research with rats also - fun little creatures and so life like! :)
I know that self-medicating seems to be a major issue with many people - kind of difficult to tell which came first sometimes I am guessing? Chicken or the egg - mental problem or the drinking/drugging or vice versa. I think the combination for people would be extremely difficult to treat.
thanks, nota, I appreciate it! One of the most frustrating aspects for people in your position (besides figuring our which method of treatment will work best) is finding the right combination for each individual as well as getting the client to continue one long enough to find out if it is working - and then the fact that some people's chemistry seems to change over time, or a medication stops being affective. I also seem to hear an awful lot about side effects from some of the drugs too - what is your experience with this as being a “norm” situation?
18 July 2008
at 10:22 p.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
“One of the most frustrating aspects for people in your position (besides figuring our which method of treatment will work best) is finding the right combination for each individual”
They'll tell you if you listen.
“I also seem to hear an awful lot about side effects from some of the drugs too - what is your experience with this as being a “norm” situation?”
To an extent, t_r_a is absolutely correct. Putting any foreign chemical - by which I mean anything that isn't a substance naturally manufactured in the body or something that the body can naturally digest, metabolize, and make use of, is pretty much a poison. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll be harmful to everyone in limited quantities. Nicotine poisoning causes vomiting and nausea, headaches, difficulty breathing, stomach pains and seizures. If that sounds similar to pesticide poisoning, it might be because nicotine is sold as a commercial pesticide - the amount of nicotine in four cigarettes can kill you if ingested. Yet some people smoke two packs a day and live to be 110.
A fair number of people have allergies to ragweed or some other naturally occuring component of air. Should we all stop breathing because it may have side effects?
18 July 2008
at 10:40 p.m.
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justbegintowrite (Ronda Miller) says…
I guess one of the things I am talking about is the commercials that list dozens of harmful side effects to watch for when taking medications - even strange things like T.B. I understand the importance for all of these disclaimers, but what the heck is in any medication that would give one T.B. unless it is the virus.
Yes, it is interesting how many poisons people choose to put in their bodies without giving it any thought, but when someone else wants to give it to us we start to balk and worry - well, maybe that is just the “paranoids” :)
As a life coach (we do not do therapy) I agree totally that listening to the client is the key - most people know what their needs are on some level if you allow them to tell you. Amazing how many doctors do not know that little secret though, eh?
18 July 2008
at 10:41 p.m.
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camper (Anonymous) says…
This is easy for me to say because I am an example of someone who often doesn't follow their own advice:
- If you are depressed, it means you have feelings, you have a heart, you are human. This is normal. This is ok.
- I believe depression is physical, but it can be triggered by psychological issues such as some type of loss or other trauma.
-Stay low-key and maybe try not to make major decisions…if possible..when yo