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FOP Range and "Adjacent" Property Owners

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"Douglas County Commissioners are disputing claims made in a lawsuit that they “unreasonably and arbitrarily” approved a permit in October for a firing range at the Fraternal Order of Police lodge near Lone Star Lake." Read the rest of the story ... http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/jan...

It seems that, with the exception of Harry J Knoche, that the definition of "adjacent" is being stretched a bit.

Adjacent: Next to; adjoining. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/adjacent)

Even the legal definition would make two of the property owners' claims tenuous.

Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed. defines ADJACENT: Lying near or close to; sometimes, contiguous; neighboring; not widely separated though not always touching.

Maybe the property owners are just hoping for a "Steve Glass type" buyout of their property. You remember. The one where the commissioners bought the property surrounding the proposed site of the homeless shelter, in order to approve variances to the covenants? http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2011/jul...

If you move near an airport, there will be planes flying overhead. If you move near a river, there will be floods. If you move near a shooting range, you will hear gun shots. The answer is simple: move.

Comments

RoeDapple 2 years, 11 months ago

Hell, I'd love to have it next to my property! What's a little noise (I can hear UP and BNSF from my place, KTA traffic and overhead air traffic) compared to the safety of having LE nearby practically 24/7!! Hey, with a little luck and a lot of begging maybe they would let me practice with 'em. Maybe I could learn a little from them, maybe they could learn from me. Tell the whiners to put "For Sale" signs up. It won't take long for people who appreciate Law Enforcement to buy them out.

oldvet 2 years, 11 months ago

An excellent job, lamtired! Thanks for bringing this to light.

Those darn jets going into KCI have a flight path directly over my house in Lawrence...

oldvet 2 years, 11 months ago

oops, fingercheck... sorry about that, iamtired.

HW 2 years, 11 months ago

It sounds stupid, but that is why DIA was built in Denver. Stapelton (the old airport) was built "in the middle of no where" originally. Everyone built around it and then started bitching about the noise from the airport. Then they build DIA "in the middle of no where". Within a year, there were housing developments going up within a mile or two and in the landing paths of DIA's runways. It is a disturbing cycle.

pace 2 years, 11 months ago

Thinking a stand of trees is adequate prevention is WRONG. What a ninny idea. trusting a stand of trees to back drop fire. That reasoning is incredibly stupid. That is why some using fire arms need training. A tree might be in line of fire, stopping some, but what you want is solid hill. Don't think some tree will stop your bullet.

pace 2 years, 11 months ago

I never said the ridge wasn't sufficient. I was responding to your remark "the thick growth of forestry would prevent any projectiles from reaching them. " . that was what I thought was stupid. A thick grove of trees might muffle noise but you claimed ""the thick growth of forestry would prevent any projectiles from reaching them. ' That is just silly. You should go to some gun training.

pace 2 years, 11 months ago

I agreed with the first half. I don't agree with the idea that a grove of trees will stop bullets. They don't, you might be lucky, and a trunk might stop it, but no. With that kind of thinking someone or some livestock ends up bleeding or dead. No, I don't agree a grove of trees work as a backdrop. A ridge or hill works, but even those must have a wide latitude for error. I have an great place to shoot, no reasonable chance to over shoot and excellent view of possible trespass. I love shooting, but I also respect real safety practices. You are a very good example of why there needs to be a knowledgeable and strict range master. Anyone who thinks trees stops bullets or anyone who think people know better than to drink and shoot, they need a range master. Safety rules and practices should be enforced in both home and group practice ranges. Any range used by multiple populations must make such practices and rules clear and enforced. The rules must be determined by people who have real knowledge of fire arms and fire power. Not people who just watch movies or assume nothing will go wrong.

pace 2 years, 11 months ago

I am sorry your don't understand sentence structure. You wrote the sentence, I just disagree with it. If you are trying to say you meant the sentence to mean something other than how you wrote it. I can only say, that happens to many.

Ockhams_Razor 2 years, 11 months ago

Is there any drinking of alcoholic beverages permitted at the FOP lodge?

If so, why is it allowed at a facility that is a gun range?

Autie? DIST? Anyone?

BlackVelvet 2 years, 11 months ago

Never pass up an opportunity to bag on LE, eh Smitty? Even if you have to make things up?

thebigspoon 2 years, 11 months ago

When was Ron Wilson Sheriff ? Fred Broeker was the Sheriff from 1961 to 1965. After that was Rex Johnson then Loren Anderson and now Ken Mcgovern. Must have been a long long time ago...

Jim Phillips 2 years, 11 months ago

The FOP is private property. Is drinking allowed at your residence?

pace 2 years, 11 months ago

I am hoping the firing range will continue. But I don't agree with you that activities such as drinking, off roading or noise should not be considered in regulating a gun range. Drinking is allowed on my property but a firing range, herds of cattle or heavy industry is not currently allowed. I am not willing to just dismiss the neighbors right to safety and noise abatement. I don't dismiss other people's safety when I shoot. I don't want any person to have that entitlement. I don't care if people just moved in, they should have full access to property they own, with full assurances that more than trees stand between them and flying bullets. Don't dismiss other people's safety because you think a firing range is useful and necessary.

triplegoddess13 2 years, 11 months ago

What people seem to forget is that the FOP is used for multiple reasons and the range area is not located on the entire property. Seperate functions happen in different areas of the property. Any person that knows how to handle a weapon knows that you don't drink and shoot. That is also one of the policies posted in the range area. Again, to restate what others have already said, there is a natural backdrop behind each target area. People might know this if they bothered to go out there and actually see how the property is used.

Boston_Corbett 2 years, 11 months ago

Perhaps I own a commercial shooting range...on my own private property.

Should drinking be allowed at my shooting range?

Jim Phillips 2 years, 11 months ago

Just a point of clarification, as you drive onto the property, there is a secondary range to the south of the driveway. When in use, shooters are firing to the east and the roadway curves away from the range. It's use is limited and the backstop is a tall hillside bank.

The trap range is to the north of the parking area and shooters fire to the north.

The primary pistol range is on top of a small incline to the east of the parking lot. Shooters fire to the south and into a hillside.

So the question that begs to be asked is, how much damage have property owners suffered in the last 40 years of the range being in use?

Jim Phillips 2 years, 11 months ago

The primary fact is, you are making a statement that you have yet to back up with documentation. Another fact is that I have never left the FOP property while intoxicated. Yet another fact is, that although I can't say it has never happened, just as I can't say for certain you have never driven while intoxicated, I have never seen anyone driving themselves home from the lodge after being intoxicated. And the final fact is that all we seem to have thus far in this blog is your say so that it has happened, just like Ron Wilson was a sheriff. All facts as asked for in your poor Jack Webb impersonation.

RoeDapple 2 years, 11 months ago

My old granpappy always told me "being the loudest liar doesn't change a thing."

RoeDapple 2 years, 11 months ago

As a retired Teamster (never in LE) I appreciate the saying,"What a truck driver doesn't know he at least has an opinion on."

You ever drive a truck?

Try looking up "skeet shooting", "buckshot", for that matter anything that pops into your head before you expose your lack of knowledge on a subject.

And go ahead. Get the last word. Still doesn't make you right.

imastinker 2 years, 11 months ago

Nobody responds to merrill either. Your responses are predictible and boring. I could argue a point, but at no time does logic or common sense enter your reasoning, so I am unarmed to try to sway your opinion. I'd rather not try.

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