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By Jessica Drew
July 1, 2009
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Ten percent of women in Kansas have reported being a victim of domestic or sexual violence. Personal experiences are driving some advocates working for the victims.
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"...Dena, do you rule the toilet seat in your house?...."
I don't know if I rule it but I certainly own it since it is my house.
Secondly, we live in Kansas. If there is a domestic violence situation here, we call the local police. We do not call the FBI. The federal law may say one thing but we prosecute under Kansas law. If you were to read the laws in place, you will see that they refer to the victim in a gender neutral way. In other words, the assumption is not that the victim is always female. The wording of the law always says "victim" not "he" or "she" but "victim." There is not distinction between a male victim or a female victim.
You are welcome to go to ks.gov and look up the relevant statutes and read them yourself if you wish.
"......Why can't the “chick” leave? It's dv if you are physically hindered, male or female...."
If the chick wants to leave, let her. If the "chick" is so out of control, a victim has two choices. He or she can either stay there or leave and get to safety. Staying there isn't always a good choice and if you stay out of some misguided sense of manliness or pride and you end up gettting killed, what have you proven.
The football player McNair is thought to have been killed by his girlfriend before she comitted suicide. You can stay if you want, but it could get you killed.
It isn't weak to leave if you need to leave. It is smart.
Agreed. This was my only point.
In the situation I was commenting on, (where you leave the situation), kids were not involved. In the situation I discussed in my later post, I was old enough to understand the situation and able to provide assistance to my mom. I also said if the person won't let you leave, then you call for assistance and help.
Every situation is different, just as every person is different. Ours worked out. Not everyone is so lucky,.
Agreed. I have seen couples like you describe. I think of that relationship structure as "mutually-assured-sado-masochism".
"My own 2 cents: Some people are incapable of being completely happy unless they are completely miserable. Relationships are wierd."
This is true too. I know a few couples who just seem to like drama. Always arguing, always breaking up every couple of weeks just to get back together again...very reminiscent of the relationships people have in high school. I'm not sure if those relationships fit into the "domestic abuse" category, though?
OeraLinda (Anonymous) says…
"Some women seek out abusive relationships."
Not on a conscious level. It's not like they wake up in the morning and say to themselves, "I really need a piece of crap that calls himself a man to smack me around once in a while."
Domestic abuse is a vicious cycle. An individual who finds themselves in an abusive relationship over and over again is usually the product of a household where domestic abuse was common. They say women end up "marrying their fathers" and men end up "marrying their mothers" (not literally, of course) -- if a person is raised in an environment where they witness domestic abuse, it may seem "normal" to them, as if that is how family dynamics are supposed to be, even if it is destructive and harmful.
Whatever you're thinking, you're probably correct.
Like relationships themselves, the issue is very complicated. It isn't often as easy as simply vacating the premises. If we are talking about a hetero couple, and the "chick was going crazy", would you expect the man to leave if there were children, a beloved pet, or some other dependant left in the home? The logic is the same if the male is the aggressor. What parent would willingly leave her children in the care of someone who is very mentally distressed, in need of a sedative at best, or a night in the drunk tank at worst? Trying to leave the house with the kids? Maybe a good idea, but in some situations it could only pour gasoline on this ugly fire, depending on who you are dealing with.
Everyone has valid points here, and I'm not trying to attack anyone's opinion, but there is no universal instruction manual on how to deal with this kind of very personal violence. A "step 1....step 2.." approach is tempting, but it does not work with every instance, and could end up making some situations worse.
If this were a simple issue with a simple solution, there would be no need for groups like helpchangekansas.org
My own 2 cents: Some people are incapable of being completely happy unless they are completely miserable. Relationships are wierd.
I wonder how many of you commenting here have actually been a victim of domestic abuse?
Regardless if you are a woman, man, child, lesbian, or gay the fact is being abused is not fun, not easy to escape from, destroys one's self esteem, and most assuredly is not actively sought after.
But Smitty, that isn't answering WHY's question? He wanted to know who to call for a crazy chick, because the man "would be arrested for sure." So we said the man should leave. If you ask someone to leave or order them to leave, and they refuse, then leave the situation. Simple as that. If they won't let you leave, then have someone else call for assistance.
My parents divorced when I was in grade school. There was an older man in my mom's life who became very unhappy when she decided to make her own decisions, and wanted to move away. He became very abusive, verbally and physically. My younger sister and I left our house to our neighbor's to call the police at my mother's request and insistence (that we leave for our safety). He left when he realized she was serious (about calling the authorities), but still caused harm to my mother and scared us to death. We moved about an hour away, but we would see his vehicle drive by our new location for several years after, and we suspected he was the one who was making the hangup calls. But laws were different then. Not much we could do.
I am sure there are women who are the physical abusers, but with the rants some are posting with, you would think women were the majority of the abusers, which they are not.
Dena, do you rule the toilet seat in your house?
Why is the national law called 1994, the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA)?
Isn't the language in the law is also gender neutral. Same language in the Ks law.
Why can't the "chick" leave? It's dv if you are physically hindered, male or female.
"....Dena— who do you suggest a person should call to get a crazy chick to calm down. If you call the police the man will go to jail guaranteed. Any other suggestions???..."
No the man will not necessarily go to jail. As I stated, and as mom of 3, pointed out, if the woman is so out of control, he should leave the premises and should not go back until the police arrive. If possible, he should try to get the kids out but sometimes that may backfire and add fuel to the fire.
I know for a fact that women do get charged for hiting their male spouses. I also know that the majority of time, the men do not want to press charges. This unfortunately is a sad reality. There is a lot of support for female victims...as there should be...but not enough for men. And society does not make it easy on male victims to leave.
However, the advice for male victims is the same as with female victims. Leave the premises. Have an escape plan. Do not go back until it is safe.
WHY - if there is a "crazy" chick, why can't the man just leave?
Dena-- who do you suggest a person should call to get a crazy chick to calm down. If you call the police the man will go to jail guaranteed. Any other suggestions???
Wow! The above responses are incredibly telling about those folks. Thanks, Dena for your common sense response.
Some women seek out abusive relationships.
The laws regardiong domestic and sexual violence in Kansas are gender neutral. If you fear that you are being abused, get help.
It doesn't matter if you are in a lesbian, homosexual or heterosexual relationship.
It doesn't matter if the abuser is male or female. It doesn't matter if you are rich or poor.
There are abusers in all demographic groups. The message to "get help" shouldn't be minimized simply because some individuals have a grudge.
Lastly, it does't matter what the other person does. When you go to trial for domestic battery, it is your behavior on trial not the other person's. So even though the other person may be screaming, insulting you, and throwing things, you do not have the right to lay your hands on that person. If that person is so out of control, they you need to leave the premises and call for help.
"Figures don't lie but liars figure."
This story reminds me of the old phrase "statistics don't lie, but you can lie with statistics."
Every time a friend of mine has a domestic fight, it starts off with a woman yelling and throwing things, hitting, getting crazy, and he will finally lay a hand on her to stop the destruction of property and protect himself. Every time. Men don't call the cops on their wives and girlfriends. The data is all screwed up.
Assertions that female abusers are really victims can be based on rather tortured logic.
A 1991 paper by researchers at the Medical College of Wisconsin classified a woman as "abused" if she said that her partner had been the first to use violence in their relationship, even if she was usually the aggressor later on.
Women's advocates also point out that most female offenders are arrested for minor, non-injurious acts like pushing, grabbing or hair-pulling.
But the same is true of most men swept up in the net of strict domestic-violence laws passed by many states in the last 10 years.
Many women who are arrested for domestic assault say they were striking back. But so do many male defendants.
The truth in these situations can be hard to sort out.
Unfortunately, many public officials have been swayed by extreme woman-as-victim arguments.
Some jurisdictions have tried to reduce female arrests by training the police to see violence "in context." Often, the guidelines instruct officers to decide who is "in control" and who is "in fear" -- vague terms likely to be used as code words for "arrest the man."
Measures intended to get women off the hook violate not only the constitutional principle of equal protection but true feminist principles.
The slogan "There is no excuse for domestic violence" should not end with the exemption "unless you are female."
Cathy Young is the author of "Ceasefire!: Why Women and Men Must Join Forces to Achieve True Equality."
What is the data on women abusing men and children, lesbian battering or gay battering, police spousal/dv abuse?
Yes sireee, we got us a genuine imitation domestic violence campaign goin' on here sponsored by the separtist lesbian shakers and movers who do not talk about the elephant in the room.
Ks Coalition on DV needs to step up the rhetoric to a current analysis. This is from '99 for gawd's sake:
Feminists Play the Victim Game
By CATHY YOUNG
MIDDLETOWN , N.J. -- An increasing number of women are being arrested for domestic assaults, and the response to this news shows just how pervasive sexist attitudes still are in our culture.
But this time the sexism is coming from feminists and their allies, who insist that most women arrested must have acted in self-defense. This sentimental insistence on female innocence does no service to women, who should be treated as human beings with a capacity for aggression and held equally accountable for their actions.
In many states, women now account for a quarter to a third of all domestic violence arrests, up from less than 10 percent a decade ago. The new statistics reflect a reality documented in research: women are perpetrators as well as victims of family violence.
A review of 70 studies of domestic violence in which both men and women were interviewed was published in 1998 by Martin Fiebert, a psychologist at California State University at Long Beach.
Usually the violence was reciprocal, the research found, with women not only fighting back but initiating attacks; when only one partner was abusive, it was at least as often the woman as the man.
And while differences in strength put women at higher risk of serious injury or death, men are hardly invulnerable. According to an article to be published next year in Psychological Bulletin, analyzing data from dozens of studies, men incur a third of injuries in domestic combat.
Shouldn't the growth in female arrests, then, be seen as representing a fairer, more realistic attitude toward gender and aggression? Not according to feminist and other advocacy groups whose ideology equates battering with male oppression of women.
They cry "backlash" and claim that women are being penalized for defending themselves.
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