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Do you feel more or less safe with the concealed carry law in effect?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on January 2, 2007

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Photo of Jim Heaney

“I feel probably as safe as before. Maybe a little bit more. I’m not that worried about people carrying them.”

Photo of Beth Murphy

“Less safe. I guess I just don’t think that people who are carrying guns around on a daily basis are carrying them for protection.”

Photo of Travis Hare

“I definitely feel less safe with the law in effect. I just don’t like the idea of people being able to carry around concealed weapons legally. I think our society is beyond that; I would hope so anyway.”

Photo of Hannah Sharp

“Less, because no decent person I trust has any desire to carry around a concealed weapon.”

Comments

geekin_topekan 7 years, 3 months ago

I am not particularly concerned because anyone who is law abiding enough to hold a permit are not the bad guys.The bad guys will CC no matter what.In other words,CC has been going on all around us all along. My concern is that someone who normally wouldn't be in a shady situation would put themselves there with a new confidence and be disarmed by a felon.Or worse,shoot themselves or an innocent bystander.Granted,this scenario is far fetched,but it has happened. I was 17 when a trespasser pulled a gun.He was a combat-wounded veteran.I guess that makes him a qualified gun owner.But his over confidence put him in a bad situation.Words became heated,gestures became fists,he pulled his gun,life became death.He lived long enough to pull off Two or Three more shots in my general direction.The first one entered behind his right ear and exited above his left molar. I wish he would have left his gun at home that day. The funny thing is,after all was quiet...the birds still chirped,the sun still shown.One minute earlier we could have enjoyed it together.If he hadn't CC'd that damned gun.

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logicsound04 7 years, 3 months ago

hannah,

You are missing the point. Not one person I have spoken to who is against the concealed carry claims that those with legal permits will resort to illegal activities. Rather, we are saying that guns are dangerous, and the more people have them, the more danger on the street--even if some of those people are law-abiding citizens.

Don't believe that guns make things more dangerous? Look at other countries that have much more stringent gun laws in the first place--they have far fewer gun-related injuries and deaths.

You point to statistics about crime going down in states that have concealed carry, but what about gun-related injuries and deaths?

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hannah2u 7 years, 3 months ago

I'm not worried about those who carry and have a permit, my concern is with those who carry without a permit. With a permit and the strict laws most are not going to do anything stupid, can you say the same for the gang members that drive by homes and shoot the people inside, or bank robbers, rapists, etc. How many children and innocent victims have been killed by someone doing a drive-by shooting? How many women and children killed due to abductions and rape? Those are the people we need to concern ourselves with. I can't imagine those who have paid $150.00 for training, $150 to apply with attorney general and the sheriff's office for a background check and fingerprinting, $7.00 for the photo to be submitted with the application and $12.00 to receive the permit to carry and let's not forget those who have had to pay out $300 to $500 and up for a weapon, going through all of that for illegal activity with a gun. I have relatives in three other States and they have permits to carry a concealed weapon and they've not had any problems in their States. People are unsure of the unknown, soon it will be old hat and most won't think twice about it. I will say this, the three States I've mentioned have all had a decrease in crime. For those who are running on fear, I suggest you take a Basic Pistol Course at a local shooting range. Even if you don't carry a weapon it's good to have the knowledge. Conquer your fears by becoming familiar with that which you are afraid of. Also, check with other states that have CCH laws and find out first hand how it has affected their states. Find out on your own if crimes have increased or decreased. Find out how many good citizens have gone bad because they carry a concealed weapon. Research it before you jump to conclusions.

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Kat Christian 7 years, 3 months ago

It concerns me - because the thought of going out in public and standing next to someone who may be carrying a gun is pretty scary. I think shootings will rise because of this law.

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 3 months ago

"And your Chinese take-out."

Thanks.

Marion.

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 3 months ago

Oh.

"And we deliver your pizzas."

Thanks.

Marion.

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Azure_Attitude 7 years, 3 months ago

You're cruisin' for some a-hole tax, Marion.

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 3 months ago

Marion writes:

(Abusing the comments of Tyler Durden)

"Look, the people you do not want to carry concealed weapons are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we drive your ambulances. We connect your calls, we guard you while you sleep. Do not... f++ with us."

Thanks.

Marion.

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person_of_interest 7 years, 3 months ago

Well, I admit that people carrying concealed weapons (legally) may not have done much to lower crime (thus far)....but then again, I haven't seen or heard too many cases where someone brandished a weapon in a crowded mall (or wherever) and then somebody carrying a conceal weapon (legally) wound up killing one or more innocent bystanders in an attempt to neutralize the would-be killer either.

So it seems to me that both sides of the aisle in this debate really have much of an argument/case to be made.

Not at this time anyway.

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

And this thread was going so well, too. Then people had to get all, you know, serious and stuff.

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

"....some folks just don't quite understand the concept of class......"

I'm sorta thinking that statement means class and expressing an opinion may be closely related if not identical----at least in a liberals' mind.....help me out here?

You are a super bunch!

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faceit 7 years, 3 months ago

Hmmmmm, I wonder what President Ford's opinion was?

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nudist 7 years, 3 months ago

For CC, mine will have to be really small.

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

"But given a choice, I'd rather drop a full grown thug who is trying to kill me vs. rip a baby out of a womb limb for limb." Interesting, I didn't realize those were the options -- own a gun or become Susan Atkins of the Manson Family. I'll choose neither, but thanks for coming up with such a wonderfully ridiculous comparison. I would expect nothing less from such an angry and hateful neo-con.

ImpactWinter, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if any of the gun study numbers have been bent to fit either side of the issue, but enough of them that I have seen seem to point toward the general notion that owning guns doesn't necessarily make one safer. Also, some folks just don't quite understand the concept of class, so it isn't even worth asking.

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H_Lecter 7 years, 3 months ago

I've always enjoyed the idea, if you kill it, you eat it.

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Devon Kissinger 7 years, 3 months ago

Let's see, there are 47? other states that have CC laws on the books. I'm still waiting to hear about the Deadwood scenes being played out and all the other hogwash. Blood running in the streets and all that. Chances are folks will never know if I'm carrying or if the person standing in line next to them at the grocery store is. Folks are making much ado about nothing. Yes, I've applied for a permit, will you or anyone else know about it? Most likely not. God forbid, if one of us permit holders ever has to shoot someone in self defense and you are nearby, then you'll know. It's not something you'll likely need to worry about in our safe little haven of Lawrence, Ks.

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ImpactWinter 7 years, 3 months ago

Beatrice, Kellerman's study has been largely disproven since he formed no causal links, and most of his evidence was merely circumstantial (I.E. homes are more likely to possess guns because of being in a dangerous neighborhood to begin with)

This abortion crap has got to go, its neither relevant nor appropriate to the discussion; show some class folks...

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

"Now that is the spirit! Nothing says adoration of the baby Jesus quite like packing heat to shoot down your fellow man! Kill! Kill! Kill! Amen!"- Beatrice

So you believe in the baby Jesus? Great! So do I.

Kill my fellow man? Maybe if ever necessary, but I hope not and really do not plan on "packing heat" too awful much. But given a choice, I'd rather drop a full grown thug who is trying to kill me vs. rip a baby out of a womb limb for limb. I guess it's all how you view the world.

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logicsound04 7 years, 3 months ago

sublime,

You're on the wrong thread.

=======================================

ImpactWinter,

While I will agree that not all criminals are stupid, the types of violent crimes that would be affected by concealed carry (bugulary, mugging, robbery) are not often "thinking" crimes--that's why a gun is needed.

You do make a good point about avoiding those that they suspect of having a weapon--but then again, that isn't the situation you originally described, that they would "think twice" about commiting the crime at all. They would still commit the crime, just against a person who the THOUGHT didn't have a weapon.

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

rt: "getting my permit tomorrow. Nice Christmas gift"

Now that is the spirit! Nothing says adoration of the baby Jesus quite like packing heat to shoot down your fellow man! Kill! Kill! Kill! Amen!

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Azure_Attitude 7 years, 3 months ago

Even with open carry in the state you couldn't open carry in Lawrence because of a city ordinance.

Do I feel safer with CCW? No more, no less. If a bad guy would get past the alarm and my dog (doubt it)and break in my house while I'm there he/she/it will be carried out. For sure.

Is that a red Swingline Stapler? Somebody took my stapler . . . and last time I passed the cake and then there was no more cake left . . . and I was told I could play the radio at a reasonable level.

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beatrice 7 years, 3 months ago

Neither. There are so many guns out there now, none of us are "safe." Consider for a moment the "stability" of some who are ranting here about how great guns are. If you don't agree you get called names -- since distance disallows the posibility of a pistol-whipping, I guess. Sure, lets hand these folks guns.

jrlii: as far as weak, weak, women not wanting to own guns, consider a few of these statistics I've lifted off the web -- A gun in your home makes it three times more likely that you or someone you care about will be murdered by a family member or intimate partner (Kellerman,New England Journal of Medicine v329, n.15 1993)

In 1997, homicide was the second leading cause of death amongst young women from 15 to 24. Suicide was the fourth leading cause of death for this same age group. 56 percent of these deaths were caused by firearms. (National Vital Statistics Report, 1999)

In 1998, for every one time a woman used a handgun to kill a stranger in self-defense, 302 women were murdered in handgun homicides (FBI's Supplementary Homicide Report, 1998)

Sure, you might question the validity of the numbers and I haven't read the entire reports, but the weight of such studies point at why many women don't necessarily feel safe or safer owning a gun.

Remember: Guns don't kill people -- it takes bullets, too.

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sublime 7 years, 3 months ago

The prayer is reprinted below as an encouragement and challenge for each of us to stand for the truth of the Gospel wherever the Lord gives us opportunity.

Heavenly Father, we come before You today to ask Your forgiveness and seek Your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, " Woe on those who call evil good," but thatÂ's exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and inverted our values. We confess that:

We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it pluralism; We have worshipped other gods and called it multi-culturalism; We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle; We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery; We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation; We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare; We have killed our unborn and called it choice; We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable; We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self-esteem; We have abused power and called it political savvy; We have coveted our neighborÂ's possessions and called it ambition; We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression; We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

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sublime 7 years, 3 months ago

"Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching its people to love but to use violence to get what they want. This is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion." Mother Teresa

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ImpactWinter 7 years, 3 months ago

Logicsound I don't think you give criminals enough credit; to write them off as universally stupid just for engaging in crime is a little naive. It may suprise you to find that they use sophisticated techniques and psychology to their benefit; often targeting specific areas prone to affluent people, and even using "No Guns" signs to ensure that their intended victims are disarmed.

Crime might not appeal to the civic minded among us, but don't think that all criminals are stupid; it takes a certain low cunning to thrive in that kind of lifestyle.

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sunflower_sue 7 years, 3 months ago

trinity, It's never been my experience to need a reason to buy a new purse. This is a foreign concept for me. I must admit, I am truly dumbfounded. Do others feel this way? :)

sgt, stick with the stapler! It worked for me when I used it against my sister when I was 4. (In my own defense, she dared me to do so.)

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ImpactWinter 7 years, 3 months ago

yeah, get my quotes right, I frame these little spats : )

if you actually watch deadwood, there's very little gunplay

lots of shanking though...

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Tom Shewmon 7 years, 3 months ago

A BS question rooted in BS liberal thinking.

It's not about "feeling more or less safe" ....what a bogus stupid OTS'er ------it's about my legal right (like libs say a right for women to get abortions) and thank you Attorney General Phill Kline for approving my application....getting my permit tomorrow. Nice Christmas gift...again, thank you Mr. Attorney General, Phill Kline.

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logicsound04 7 years, 3 months ago

blue73harley,

You are correct--my apologies.

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blue73harley 7 years, 3 months ago

logicsound - you misquote me. The quote you attribute to me was that of ImpactWinter. I simply answered one of your questions.

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logicsound04 7 years, 3 months ago

"They are already carrying illegally. For them, only one thing has changed: "I wonder if there are any citizens carrying, who may interfere with my commission of a crime?"" posted by dasgood

"Logicsound, the point is that since concealment is now legal, criminals are going to second guess themselves on their intended targets" posted by blue73harley


So apparently from these two posts (and a lot of the supporters of concealed carry) I am to believe that a criminal is going to "think twice" about committing a crime because 0.1% of the population MIGHT be carrying a weapon?

First, you give criminals WAY too much credit. If they were giving this much thought to their crimes, they wouldn't be doing the things they are doing. Second, these statistice that so-called PROVE a decrease in crime only show some sort of a relationship between the two stats. It is equally likely that there is a third factor that may be causing BOTH phenomena. For example, areas that take a more hard-line approach to crime are also the areas that are more likely to adopt a concealed carry law. It would stand to reason that the hard-line approach to crime is what is REALLY deterring crime.

Marion, as for your tendency to write off anyone who doesn't agree with you as a sheep--do whatever you need to in order to prevent yourself from having to reconcile dissenting viewpoints with your own. It is amazing that someone as old as you could still have so much naivete...

This country is so damn gun-obsessed. Just chalk it up to an overabundance of machismo. I guess it makes sense that the country that would elect* a dumb cowboy (and a fake one at that) as it's president would also want to play out Deadwood on its modern streets.

As for the comment that over time, the only ones who carry are the ones who devote themselves to safety and marksmanship--I certainly hope you are right, as there isn't much hope for having this law reversed any time in the near future.

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BorderRat 7 years, 3 months ago

Hey Travis you wrote "I definitely feel less safe with the law in effect. I just don't like the idea of people being able to carry around concealed weapons legally." I guess from that statement you are OK with people who choose to carry concealed weapons illegally? Just asking.

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dasgood 7 years, 3 months ago

In the U.S., the brandishing of a weapon, in anticipation of a need for self defense, prevents well over 1 million "criminal incidents" a year. (Closer to 2 million, but I don't remember the exact figures.) But, the tenor of those incidents, are not considered "news worthy", with the exception of the rare "fluff piece/hero thingy" on a local news channel, once or twice a year.

Anyone with a gun, whom you should be concerned about, most likely doesn't give a ***t about CC laws. They are already carrying illegally. For them, only one thing has changed: "I wonder if there are any citizens carrying, who may interfere with my commission of a crime?"

Australia banned all private weapons ownership, outside of established "hunting clubs", 5 or 6 years ago. Within 2 years, personal and property crimes, especially in areas with a more elderly demographic, increased by as much as 300%.

The history of gun control, has it's genesis in racism, and that is a fact, regardless of folks political persuasions. The first widely employed gun laws, were those which prohibited african americans from gun ownership, mostly in the south. Readers can draw their own conclusions, as to why those were enacted.

Ever see those warning pictures on the sides of plastic buckets, with a child's head upside down in the bucket, with the circle/slash warning? There's a reason for that. To prevent parents from being negligent about leaving buckets with water in them, around toddlers.

A lot more children, 5 or under, drown in 5 gallon buckets every year, than are killed by firearm related negligence. Why don't we ever hear about those drownings? Again, it doesn't play right in the media. It's not titillating and controversial enough.

People believe, about C.C., whatever they have been told by the media, and never just look at the facts. Tell them they are enacting a "conditioned response", and they'll get upset at you.

In my high crime neighborhood in K.C., I wish there was a law that required 1 7th of the population, to CC one day a week. Mandatory.

My neighborhood, would utterly change, in 1 years time.

BTW, I could, but won't C.C. Other folks are better suited for that, and I am happy they do.

My 2 ¢

:-)

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juscin3 7 years, 3 months ago

I would be the one with two. I'd give one to Craigers. I know that he would protect me. :)~

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

In order to escape the logistical problems with concealing a staple gun, I think I will instead conceal a red marker. Then, if I am in danger, I will simply draw wounds on the person who is threatening me. They will react with the appropriate agony, and I will be safe.

Even better, once the marks wash off, there will be no trace of my defense, so I will have no cause to worry.

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mom_of_three 7 years, 3 months ago

jrlii, you bring up a good point.

"The only time an armed citizen is going to open fire is if they really and truly fear for their lives." I truly hope so, and I hope their aim is good.
And I hope I am not around if the circumstances arise.

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jrlii 7 years, 3 months ago

Why is it that the people who would most benefit from concealed carry are the least willing to do it?

Women are at an inherent disadvantage when it comes to defending themselves on account of their comparatively slight stature and modest strength.

In my concealed carry class there was ONE woman: She figured her husband could take care of himself, but knew she couldn't deal with an attacker with her own physical strength.

Yes, with martial arts techniques, skill and finesse can make up for a lack of size and strength, but those techniques take lots of practice to learn and regular practice to have them fresh enough to defend yourself. Even then, there is only so much you can do when you are jumped by someone twice your size. And ladies, guys twice your mass aren't all that uncommon.

In the old west, they called the revolver "the equalizer." A gun doesn't care if it is wielded by a 100 pound woman or a 300 pound guy: It hits just as hard for either.

You need to know, that a licensed armed citizen in NOT a cop. In all likelihood, if they shoot someone in self defense, the DA is likely to prosecute him or her anyway, and probably bankrupt them with the legal fees it takes to defend themselves, even if they are not convicted, they will be dealing with the aftermath for YEARS. First the DA, then lawyers for the heirs of the person they shot, then. . . The only time an armed citizen is going to open fire is if they really and truly fear for their lives.

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mom_of_three 7 years, 3 months ago

Marion, I could call names, but I am not going to fall to your level.

Don't like guns, never have, although I wouldn't recommend breaking into my mothers house. She would blow your head off.

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macon47 7 years, 3 months ago

sure, but what about the % that are already packin heat.? they dont need no stinkin law they are REAL MEN WOO WOO

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The_Original_Bob 7 years, 3 months ago

I don't feel any more or any less safe. In fact, I doubt it will have any effect on me at all.

KS Population - ~3,000,000 Permits so far - ~3000 0.1% of the population

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 3 months ago

Mom:

BAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Thanks.

Marion.

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ImpactWinter 7 years, 3 months ago

There are quite a lot of places that don't fall into the prohibited list; I can see a lot of use for business men who travel a lot, or people who spend a lot of time on the move around town.

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mom_of_three 7 years, 3 months ago

I do have a question -

You can't carry in a school, church, post office, federal building (probably county building) daycare, hospital, (bank??), etc or anywhere it is posted "no guns".
So will you really be "carrying" a concealed weapon, or just leaving it in your car?? If I were to have a concealed carry license (and I never will), the weapon would be in the car or at home, because of where I work. How many others will also be in that situation??

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mom_of_three 7 years, 3 months ago

less safe...

Marion - stop calling names because people don't share your opinion. very immature....

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ImpactWinter 7 years, 3 months ago

Guns are out there BR, lots more than your feared 3000; you have to deal with that on your own time.

The crafting/possession of weapons has been with mankind since we learned to walk upright.

Violence is not solely the burden of mankind, it is a fact of existence as this world knows it. Man survived the wilder days of the eighteenth & nineteenth centuries with guns on nigh-on everyones hips.

Before that we survived in days where the only law was what one could secure at the end of a sword.

These days aren't really that different, the buildings we live in are better made, communication is faster and more reliable, the police are a little better at catching bad-guys after the fact.

What hasn't changed is that you are responsible for your own safety and that of your family; Law Enforcement is squarely focused on Deterrance and Punishment, prevention is something of a pipedream, and your obligation to yourself.

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ohjayhawk 7 years, 3 months ago

Ohio has had a CCW law on the books since 2004, and my safety is definitely not something that crosses my mind very frequently. I have never heard, in those almost three years, of any negative outcomes to situations attributed to the CCW. (Although, I can also say, I have not heard of any situations that have been affected in a positive way (i.e. a foiled robbery) because of the CCW.) The CCW law in Ohio has not impacted my life in any way, shape, or form. So, I believe people here have been quite responsible, and I have no problem with it.

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macon47 7 years, 3 months ago

We really need ego maniacs whose only goal in life is to pack heat walking the streets of Lawrence. Most of them are the same jerks that cut you off in traffic and pass you doing 80 mph on K10. Woo Woo, I am a real man ,, I GOTTA GUN. As much as I whine about the liberals and the tree huggers, at least they are harmless. Marion, no offense but we have too many wife beaters in Lawrence, these are the same kind of melon heads that feel nekkid with out their piece. And we want them to be legal to carry a gun?

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Bladerunner 7 years, 3 months ago

I feel much less safe. Knowing there are 3000 more guns out there and knowing peoples tendacy to become angry and use said guns during arguements and road rage incidents really bothers me. Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility. In earlier posts i read someone say they would be more willing to put themselves in unsafe situations if they were packing a gun. How CRAZY is that? Someone else said they had to remind a parent to leave his gun in the car when they went into a restaurant. Great. So......Anyone with a high-tech rock can break out the window and get it? There is not a safety issue in Lawrence Ks., Unless you are frequenting crack houses or Last Call....LEAVE YOUR GUNS AT HOME.. Thanks.

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trinity 7 years, 3 months ago

ah but ss-the potential to carry a gun, would that not allow for more handbag/purse/tote shopping???

hey i'm all about that! ;)

i'm pretty ambivalent on this issue. although i would like to carry, myself.

let's hear it for us state employees who aren't working today, wooohooooooooooo! :)

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blue73harley 7 years, 3 months ago

logicsound04 posts - "Can anyone explain to me how the previous gun law (visible carry only) didn't accomplish this? People were more than welcome to carry guns BEFORE the conceal law--they just didn't."

Even though you can legally visibly carry a gun, it would be impractical to do so. That is unless you really liked getting the police called on you by concerned citizens such as yourself.

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ImpactWinter 7 years, 3 months ago

if anything, I'd like to see the training/competency requirements be a little steeper, but thats splitting hairs.

Truth is Concealed carry is pretty self-policing in that people who feel less than competent to carry (despite the state's say-so) tend to stop carrying in a short period of time; its kind of a hassle to wear a couple pounds of steel on your kidneys every day, and most casual carry-er's tend to stop once they realize it.

People who carry consistantly over the course of years are almost always very dedicated to the discipline of marksmanship and gun safety; and are probably better qualified to carry than many officers of the law, some of whom view guns as simply tools of the trade, or at worst: a projection of power.

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 3 months ago

You see, those who oppose CCW live in a dream world of their own manufacture.

The numbers prove them wrong and such folks do not believe that ordinary citizens can act responsibly, which is why the CCW opponenents adhere to the philosophy that the government must act as Daddy.

They are sheep.

Thanks.

Marion.

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ImpactWinter 7 years, 3 months ago

and as for an increase in accidental/negligent discharges: Modern firearms are pretty damn reliable, they tend to do exactly what they're told by the person holding it; this law doesn't absolve personal obligations towards responsible gun ownership/safety.

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ImpactWinter 7 years, 3 months ago

Logicsound, the point is that since concealment is now legal, criminals are going to second guess themselves on their intended targets (I.E. "man, I'd like to rob that lady, she's got some nice shoes and a Dolce & Gabbana purse, but she might have some heat in that bag, hmm...")

The Dept of Justice has pretty convincing figures that correlate the increase of citizen gun ownership to a decrease in violent crime (armed robbery, rape etc.)

I don't expect everyone to enjoy the idea; but there is quite a bit of evidence to support it.

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staff04 7 years, 3 months ago

Less safe. More guns being actively transported while loaded=more shootings, accidental or otherwise.

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Sue, you raise a good question. I'm not sure how I'd work the concealment of the stapler. I may need to work on this idea more before I introduce it into the mainstream.

In the meantime, I think I will conceal a standard office stapler. Just to be safe.

Should I make it a red stapler?

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bevy 7 years, 3 months ago

Best gun-related movie line I can think of: "Of course he had a gun. This is Texas! Everybody has a gun. My florist has a gun!"

Candace Bergen in "Miss Congeniality"

Sorry if that violates the tv/movie/reality equation, but I had to share.

Happy '07 everyone!

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logicsound04 7 years, 3 months ago

...cont.

What I don't understand is this: the pro-concealed carry crowd claims that legal concealed weapons will deter crime because criminals won't want to risk injury. Can anyone explain to me how the previous gun law (visible carry only) didn't accomplish this? People were more than welcome to carry guns BEFORE the conceal law--they just didn't. I'd trust someone carrying a gun that didn't mind people knowing they were carrying it; the fact that so many (3,000) want permits now that they can hide it, worries me.

I would also think that a gun on your hip would deter a criminal much more than one inside your breast pocket. The problem with concealed carry is that the criminal is only confronted with an opposing gun once it has been drawn. Do you really think there is going to be much rational thought going on once two people have guns drawn on each other? In fact, statistics say that the likelihood of a shot being fired skyrockets once a gun has been drawn.

I hate the basic line of thought behind the concealed carry: "they can hide THEIR guns, so we should be able to as well". Well, criminals steal illegally as well--should we make that legal so that it's FAIR to law abiding citizens? It's just so reactionary and ill-considered. We should let those most equipped to fight crime (the police) do the fighting. This isn't about safety,rather it is about people wanting to feel like Wyatt Earp. There are many ways citizens can help deter crime without possessing a gun--yet more often than not, they don't do them.

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logicsound04 7 years, 3 months ago

"A polite and armed society respects the rule of law and has utmost respect for a firearm for he/she knows the power to give and take life lies in that individual's responsibility."


What a ridiculous notion--that anyone who owns a gun legally also has a certain level of respect for the law and understanding of the destructive power of their weapon. Just because you don't have a criminal record and you can afford a gun does not mean you understand the consequences of your weapon or know how to use it properly. See: Dick Cheney

=======================================

"I think I'd rather have a decent person that I trust carrying a concealed weapon, than an indecent person that I don't trust carrying the same weapon. But that's just me."


The problem is that the criminals won't stop carrying weapons simply because there are law-abiding citizens that carry them. All you're doing by allowing a concealed carry is increasing the number of unknown guns on the street. The only way a concealed carry will have any positive effect on crime is if legal carrying citizens begin using their guns to counteract the criminals--does anyone really think they would be safer if TWO people started pointing guns/shooting at each other? That's just twice as many ill-aimed bullets that might strike bystanders. I want to remind everyone that the last shooting-related injury/death in Lawrence was from a stray bullet, NOT from an accurately-aimed gun.

cont...

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sunflower_sue 7 years, 3 months ago

sgt, how would you hide the air hose? Those staple guns can go off quite irratically. Careful where you carry that thing!

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macon47 7 years, 3 months ago

some folks willl rob you with a gun

others use a pen.

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Can I get a permit to carry a concealed stapler?

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jasonc_22 7 years, 3 months ago

I certainly feel less safe- and we have a "no guns" sign posted in my office already

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craigers 7 years, 3 months ago

More safe. I just hope they have two so they can toss me one if the situation gets rough!!!!

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quietgirl 7 years, 3 months ago

Yes, us bankers have to work today. We are not as lucky as the State employees!!!!

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angelofmine 7 years, 3 months ago

I feel quite a bit safer, to some extent. My fiancee is authorized to carry anywhere but a courthouse...even on a plane. That was before the new law, even. That makes me feel a little more secure, knowing that when I fly there could be federal officers armed as well as air marshals that are assigned on my flight.

On the other hand, I know of people that have no business owning a gun, much less carrying one, that carry theirs without a permit, and would not be allowed a permit if they were to apply and do so anyway. There are more of those out there than you think. Its nice to even it out a little with some law abiding, responsible gun owners.

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mkdavis 7 years, 3 months ago

"Less, because no decent person I trust has any desire to carry around a concealed weapon."

Thinking like that could land someone back in Rossville as part of the freshman drop out statistic.

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sunflower_sue 7 years, 3 months ago

I know quite a few "decent" people that "pack heat." I feel more safe knowing that there are probably more like them out there. These few people that I know are all good shots, as well...thus escalating my level of "feeling safe." I've actually thought about going CC myself, but I struggle with the "where would I hide it" question. I would never put a gun in my purse, and like many women, my clothes fit a little snug. Maybe an ankle holster?

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macon47 7 years, 3 months ago

it would be interesting to see a county by county break down.

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hipper_than_hip 7 years, 3 months ago

"Less, because no decent person I trust has any desire to carry around a concealed weapon."

I think I'd rather have a decent person that I trust carrying a concealed weapon, than an indecent person that I don't trust carrying the same weapon. But that's just me.

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Bone777 7 years, 3 months ago

I agree that I should not base my opinions on fictional tv shows.

Have you ever seen the movie Unforgiven. Those guys were ruthless.

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buffalo_star 7 years, 3 months ago

I would guess that every society from the dawn of human kind was and will always be armed in some form. It is a fantasy to believe that weapons are not needed for protection and only a foolish society would only let its police have weapons. The right to self protection is a basic human right.

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innocuous_posts 7 years, 3 months ago

Bone777, fiction tv shows <> reality.

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Bone777 7 years, 3 months ago

Marion,

Deadwood is loosely based on a real society.

Thanks.

Bone

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 3 months ago

Bone777:

You should base your opinions on REALITY, not a fictional TV SHOW!

Thanks.

Marion.

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geekin_topekan 7 years, 3 months ago

The OU/BSU was awesome!I can't remember having so much fun watching a game!!

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Bone777 7 years, 3 months ago

An armed society is not a polite society.

You ever watch HBO's Deadwood?

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mr_daniels 7 years, 3 months ago

More safe. An armed society is a polite society. A polite and armed society respects the rule of law and has utmost respect for a firearm for he/she knows the power to give and take life lies in that individual's responsibility. Criminal intent by individuals cancels their responsibility.

Stay safe and keep your power dry! Practice gun control by keeping your rounds on target!

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imastinker 7 years, 3 months ago

I'm not sure I feel safer, but I definitely don't feel less safe. I agree with Sublime. Law abiding citizens don't commit crimes. As a matter of fact, if they handed everyone a gun to get on a plane we would not have to worry about Islamic extremists.

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 3 months ago

Well, the LJW managed to find only three idiots to feature in today's OTS.

Thanks.

Marion.

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char 7 years, 3 months ago

I grew up with concealed weapons in my home state. Heck, we'd have to remind dad to leave his gun in the car sometimes before going in a restaurant.

I don't feel any more safe or less safe with this law. The people who carried guns before will still carry them illegally.

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Bone777 7 years, 3 months ago

Day of mourning? Closed government offices? Give me a break. Mourn at work or on the weekend. They will use any excuse to cut work.

OU - BSU game was the best football game I have ever watched!!!

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innocuous_posts 7 years, 3 months ago

Could we all just link to what we've already posted on this topic? Save the keystrokes, man!

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Bone777 7 years, 3 months ago

If I bothered to get a permit, I would probably feel safer putting myself in unsafe situations.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 3 months ago

The law is strictly about feelings. Hardly anyone considering the commission of a crime will even think about the concealed carry law, and when they do, if someone is carrying decides to pull their gun on them, it'll just as likely just escalate the danger of the situation as reduce it.

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jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

Sgt., I would say, with confidence, that your feelings are at least as relevent as many other posters on this board.

/and you can decide for yourself if that's a compliment or not.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UADrAvsYzgtXYjCaMHrdpyFyeL8Ujn62hP!DVVc3BQngJWKnPfyYMVrtJAg50tdPw1PmrCmko9a4ztr14yCHkMIFIVETjPxHfI4YUwIYCnfiSzg06rd2i3SCzxYAcM8W/vash%20laughing.gif?dc=4675401830455813961

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Gootsie 7 years, 3 months ago

Sgt, sorry about Michigan yesterday. Bummer. Yes your feelings are very relevant.

I wish I'd stayed up and watched Oklahoma lose. Sounds like it was a heck of a game.

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macon47 7 years, 3 months ago

think it will be more than interesting when some loser that slipped thru the cracks of the application process feels the need to fondle his piece in public. I can see it at free states or even perkins, some guy is enamored with the god given right to pack heat, and his guns goes off while He is stroking it lovingly. all of a sudden every restaurant in town has the NO HANDGUNS ALLOWED STICKER ON THEIR FRONT DOOR

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sgtwolverine 7 years, 3 months ago

Gootsie, I am told this is a day of mourning for Gerald Ford, so government offices, like post offices, are shut down. Not sure about banks.

Ford's death has been an even bigger deal up here because of his deep connections to Michigan. In fact, he'll be buried in Grand Rapids.

As for the question, I feel great! But are my feelings really relevant?

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Gootsie 7 years, 3 months ago

I'm going to conceal my feelings on this.

Are banks and post offices open today?

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jonas 7 years, 3 months ago

Unless the OTS brings it up, I don't think about the concealed carry law.

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goatdog 7 years, 3 months ago

You stupid, filthy, white trash christian pigs! YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE YOUR WAR! YOUR GREEDY CHRISTIAN WAR! YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE YOUR WAR! YOUR FILTHY CHRISTIAN WAR! Your greasy hands drip with the blood of the innocent. May what you have done unto to others soon be done unto you.

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blue73harley 7 years, 3 months ago

Ditto what sublime said. My approval notice should be arriving soon.

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sublime 7 years, 3 months ago

I'm glad we have the right to carry.I feel safer Knowing that its not just the criminals that are packing.

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