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Are you sad to hear that Micah Downs is leaving the Kansas University basketball team?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on January 25, 2006

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Photo of Jill Kennedy

“I am a little disappointed. It would’ve been nice if he had the opportunity to grow and develop as a player here, but I wish him luck wherever he goes.”

Photo of Phil Torpey

“I don’t think he’s really made enough of an impact here for me to feel one way or the other about it. Let’s just hope it doesn’t turn into another (David) Padgett situation.”

Photo of Ruth Korsten

“Yes. It’s always sad to lose a player. He was supposed to be an integral part of the team.”

Photo of David Greenwald

“Not really, because he’s not playing well here and he’s got a lot of potential.”

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Comments

ballr_chick_24 9 years, 4 months ago

uhhhhh........im micahs lil sister and i would really appreciate all of you people to stop hating becuz you dont know him personaly like i do and you dont know why he left ku like i do soooooo....when ur asked a question you dont know the truth about, next time say........."i dont know why he left...." dont try and bag on him like you know him like that. anyways thanx and i know micah has bigger things ahead of him

Grundoon Luna 9 years, 5 months ago

This is the FIRST time I've even heard of him. Shows you how much I pay attention to bball these days.

Jayhawk226 9 years, 5 months ago

We do have an additional scholarship player available for next season now, right?

neopolss 9 years, 5 months ago

He'll need to learn someday that results don't come right away, even if you are talented. You have to put time and patience into it, and stick with it. Who will want to commit to him, knowing that if it doesn't go his way he'll leave?

enochville 9 years, 5 months ago

I am hesitant to say anything negative about him because he reportedly left to deal with "personal issues," and his reason for leaving was reportedly "not basketball related". I don't know what his "personal issues" are, so I don't want to make a tough time for him more difficult.

He was a nice 3-point shooter.

supermel718 9 years, 5 months ago

Oh well. He has a lot of talent, but not the heart to go with it. You can't pout and play good basketball. (That is unless you are already in the NBA)

Topside 9 years, 5 months ago

NO!!!!! I think Bill Self definitely has a copy of "The Origin of the Species" in his office. The cream rises to the top and the rest, well... People get too excited about the posibility and potential of things. He was a big recruit, but did you actually see him play, it was bad. Sure, he could float up the 3 ball nicely but he couldn't pass or dribble or defend.
Plus he weighs like 90 lbs. and is not strong enough to play against good compitition. he is a less talented JR Giddens. ANd we just got rid of that loser (JR) who drug the team down. I read a clip of the article (not Keegans) that said he called home a lot and talked to his girlfriend at home. OHHHH Groan I played college athletics and saw plenty of guys who had high school girlfriends back home left for that reason or went home all the time to see them. That could not be a worse reason for leaving. Plus I think his family has some sort of Tiger woods complex that their child is the best and is/was being mistreated and underused. I have seen the parents of a lot less talented kids act pretty bad so I can only imagine what his parents are like. That is a little speculation but I have heard that through the grapevine.

RonBurgandy 9 years, 5 months ago

Chalk another one up on Self...

Most Div 1 bball players don't just step in and handle the ball amazingly and make every shot they put up. If they never have the change to develop, then they won't develop, it's that simple.

Stay classy, Lawrence.

RonBurgandy 9 years, 5 months ago

change is supposed to be chance. Sorry.

beatrice 9 years, 5 months ago

Who?

Sad? Like when a clown dies kind of sad, or when the popsicle falls off the stick when there is still a third of it left kind of sad? A kid I don't personally know leaving school doesn't rank as high as either of these. It doesn't matter if he is an English major, or is majoring in putting a ball through a hoop.

Come on LJW, how shallow do you think we are? Sorry, but I reserve "sad" for aspects of my life that actually matter.

Linda Aikins 9 years, 5 months ago

Hi everyone! I'm back from the armpit of Oklahoma again!

Was it Micah that couldn't decide if he wanted to come here at the beginning of the season? I could look but I'm tired.

badger 9 years, 5 months ago

On the one hand, it always makes me sad when someone isn't able to live out his potential, and drops out of school, whether for personal reasons, basketball reasons, academic reasons, or financial ones.

I hope that whatever his personal reasons may be, that he is able to get them resolved and continue getting an education at a school closer to home for him.

As a basketball player, I don't consider his loss that big a deal. Teams gain and lose players all the time. You run with the guys you can put on the court, against the other guys who show up on the court, and you don't waste brainpower thinking about the guys who won't be on your court.

However, mostly it makes me wonder how many other students made the decision to drop out this week, and how many of them had unrealized potential they won't be reaching? How many freshmen will wash out this year without anyone noticing at all?

craigers 9 years, 5 months ago

I am sad to see him go and I do hope the reasons for leaving are for the personal reasons and not the rumored pride. In the article it said that he speculated about skipping college and going straight to the NBA. Yeah right, no offense but I don't see him competing with muscle bound men in the NBA. He would get walked on and so will Rush, Chalmers, and Wright if they don't get in the wait room and wait a couple of years. When you look at their pictures they look tiny but give them a few years at college and time in the weight room and they get big like Simien and Collison. You can see that these two will be just fine in the NBA.

We will miss your potential and hopes of seeing you contribute. Too bad you couldn't stay.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

Yes, he was a good 3 point shooter, but you need more than that in College basketball. (unless you are Missouri).
Russell Robinson didn't see a lot of minutes last year, and I believe he is developing nicely this year. Coach seems to be making the right moves this year - look at the improvement of Chalmers, and Wright.
This year may not turn out as well as we all hoped, but we also knew with so many younger players, it would be hard.
Good luck to Downs - hope he goes back to school.
And I hope Brandon Rush stays another year or two... (Paul Pierce and Drew Gooden stayed 3 years)

HighScore 9 years, 5 months ago

David Padgett, JR Giddens, Alex Galindo and now Micah Downs; it seems like an alarming trend with Bill Self coached basketball teams; players leaving early, not to move on to the NBA, but to simply leave the Kansas Jayhawks basketball team. It seems that Bill Self is too quick to turn his back on his players. Roy Williams seemed to foster a family environment with his team. Players that didn't get the playing time that they wanted on a William's coached team understood that it was what was better for the team.

I am not sure if it is the recruiting method being used by the current staff (recruiting "me first" players) or the method by which this staff has addressed these issues (player development) that is the cause of my concern.

staff04 9 years, 5 months ago

It's always disappointing to lose a talent from a team, but if someone can't recognize the value of playing for one of the most storied programs in the history of basketball, then so be it...

kutwitch 9 years, 5 months ago

We can only hope that Self follows the example of some of these players and "transfers" before he pulls us all down with him. I may have hated Padget but you can't deny his skills, his 27 points the other night against now #1 Uconn is proof, and a better coach could have convinced him to stay. How he let Galindo slip through our fingers I will never understand and now Micah Downs is gone as well. Giddens is a whole other story all together though. If you would have told me after his freshman season that Giddens was leaving I would have been furious but after last years horrible, horrible play I am glad he is gone. What makes me really mad though is not so much the players we have let slip away but the players that we choose to play instead of these players while they were here. Moody and Hawkins may have been Roy's boys but for the love of god Roy wasn't stupid enough to play them. Roy was a good enough coach to realize when he had made a mistake. I will give it to Hawkins that he has made me eat my negative words towards him a few time, especially lately, but he is way too inconsistent. Moody, the human foul machine, on the other hand makes me want to vomit every time he steps on the court. Long before Moody blew the Missouri game I haven't been able to understand how he garners so much playing time, although I am sure I am in the minority in these feelings. For a long time I really felt Self was playing him to embarrass the other players into playing better but now I just don't get it. I may be alone but I say boo to you Bill Self. I concide that this is a rebuilding year as we get good young players experience but the true test will be next season and I will be calling for his ousting next year if he fails to deliver again. Really though I hope Bill Self makes eat my words and look stupid. Sometimes being right is just wrong.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

I wouldn't say Downs was the best shooter on the team. He didn't play defense at all, and lacked experience as is common with most freshman. He probably could play offense all right, but since we are a defensive team (2nd lowest opponent fg % in the nation)defense is very important.
I would take Galindo back before Downs.
Padgett was considering not coming to KU because Roy left before his freshman season. It was highly likely that some recruits from Roy would not stay. He was another example of a player who wanted time, but didn't earn it yet.

The Big 12 season has just began (2/3 left to go) and already you are spitting out NIT. What a fairweather fan you are!!

lovenhaight 9 years, 5 months ago

I would hope that these personal issues are pretty major. I don't know what could push me to make the decision to give up a free ride college scholarship to a good school.

noise 9 years, 5 months ago

Who? No. There are more important things in life, although one wouldn't know it, judging by the amount of time people waste on here writing about some basketball player they personally do not know.

Not every subject needs "voices."

Oh wait, this is Kansas.

lovenhaight 9 years, 5 months ago

Its interesting that someone mentioned that Roy Williams fostered a family environment in his teams. Well, kids, Daddy found a new family and he's not coming back . Self is your daddy now. Deal with that and stop whining. If a coach can make you give up an education and the chance to play at Kansas, then you are of weak character and are here for the wrong reasons.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

Padgett may have started games, but he wasn't a major contributor on the scoring end on a consistent basis. (Some of the same trouble as we are seeing this year from the big guys - however, these guys are sticking it out) I will cheer on this team, and this coach because I am in it for the long haul. Roy had some 10 loss seasons - and he received criticism for it,too.
Seems everyone is a coach from the stands, but I don't see you sitting on the bench..... Like I said, fairweather fans....

Linda Aikins 9 years, 5 months ago

Nope. Sad is my mommy laying in a hospital bed with yet another body fracture!

But I do hope this works to the team's advantage somehow. I'm ready to NOT lose again to Missouri and that purple college.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

noise - if you don't like basketball - don't read about it....

yeah_right 9 years, 5 months ago

Hasn't Micah Downs always had his dad as a coach? I think i recall that being the case. Maybe he is having a hard time adjusting not being daddy's boy.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

LOL Gootsie... (that purple college....i love it.....)

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

Galindo was a good 3 point shooter, plus he could defend.

Hey, kpippen, it's seems mr. padgett's team is 1-4 in conference play. Looks like they have trouble beating ranked opponents and st. johns. go pick on their coach -

dviper 9 years, 5 months ago

Good kid, with lots of potential......sorry to see him leave. I'd wager there is more to him leaving than just being home sick, especially since Bill Self nor any of his assistant coaches didn't know if he had left. That would seem to indicate a potential problem with the BB staff / program.

Any guesses on how long Bill will last at KU? Will he last longer than Mangino?

Ceallach 9 years, 5 months ago

The background music should be "Stand by your man," all y'all must be Tammy Wynette fans (don't know and don't care if I spelled her name correctly).

Did you read the article? Bill Self's ego is enormous. I have no problem with a man having an ego -- but at some point he's going to have to deliver more that we've seen from Bill Self. Come on, the smear job Self did on Downs in this article is shameful! Downs is bad, I am good, Downs is bad, I am good (shameful!). Pleeeesssseee! The team is struggling and to date all we've seen (or heard) from Self is bravado!!

beatrice 9 years, 5 months ago

badger: "it always makes me sad when someone isn't able to live out his potential ..." Come now, isn't that just a bit of hyperbole? If not then you must be in a constant state of sadness because most people don't really live up to their potential -- but we do get by. Besides isn't making one's own decisions on how he or she wants to live his or her life part of living up to own's own potential? It may not match your idea of what their potential should be, but that doesn't make it wrong and it shouldn't make you, personally, sad. It would appear he was given an opportunity that once he experienced it he realized it wasn't for him. It isn't like he left because he has to go home and work in a coal mine to support his family after his father was killed in a mining accident. That would be sad. This is a kid deciding he doesn't want to play ball for KU. Big whoop, I say.

High Score: "Roy Williams seemed to foster a family environment with his team." Perhaps, but unfortunately he ended up being like the father who winds up abandoning his wife and kids to go live with another woman and her kids. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll always prefer a coach (and players as well) who want to be there rather than those dreaming of being somewhere else.

craigers 9 years, 5 months ago

Galindo and Downs both left for personal issues. A little too far from home for these little babies? From all the reports it seems like Self is running the team and instilling in them to take care of the ball and you can see it working in some games, but they are inconsistent. Which is to be expected from a young team. The team is developing. If Rush wouldn't back down some games and attack others, if Moody would go up strong instead of being hesitant and if the other big men would do something instead of just looking for the easy dunk (Kaun) or the most impressive jump shot (Giles), then we could get somewhere. I like where the new guys are heading but they need a little experience which they are getting. I wouldn't say NIT yet...

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

Hopefully, the team can come home from Texas with a win. Freethrows, boys, freethrows.

imagine what you guys would say about naismith - he is the only coach with a losing record...and he invented the game.

betti81 9 years, 5 months ago

kutwitch--I hope self makes you eat your words too ;)

Self is an "its my way or the hiway" type of coach. there is no room for whining and complaining in his system. his recruiting style (aka get the best players and try to make them bend to create the best team) is new to Lawrence. But, he did recruite the players for Illinois that went to the national championship, so i am hoping he has a plan. I am not ready to give up on him just yet, but his playing of mediocre (sp?) players does have me questioning him sometimes. hawkins makes me eat my negative words when he shoots well, but he still turns the ball over way too much for my tastes. one can't deny that the other three freshmen have 'bent' to the system and at times look fantastic. I have faith in Coach Self, I just hope he proves worthy of it.

lovenhaight 9 years, 5 months ago

I don't know that I would call what Self said "a smear job". Its bad form to leave your team in the middle of a season, and its bad form not to inform your coach that you might not be coming back for spring semester. Downs basically stole playing time knowing that he wasn't going to be back. That isn't right. All you have seen from Self is bravado? Have you heard some of the comments he has made post game? He called some of the playing "inept", he admits that we aren't where we need to be. Do you think team morale would be boosted if he walked out there and said, "yeah, we are a young team, and I really don't have any experienced players to work with this season, so we are just going to play to our abilities and not expect much." I don't think so. And for that matter, a Kansas coach had better have an ego! He is walking on hallowed ground here in Lawrence, and I for one don't want to see a pushover coaching our team. Yes, the team seems to be struggling, but you can hear people all over the country saying that the next couple of years are going to be golden for the Jayhawks. What else can he deliver for you? A NCAA championship? How about a championship caliber team in the making? That one is signed, sealed and delivered.

badger 9 years, 5 months ago

beatrice: Sadness =/= crushing depression. One can be momentarily, transitorily, or briefly sad without descending into the depths of melancholia.

I'm sad because someone worked very hard to get into KU, to be a top-ranked kid in his sport, to make a name as being very good at what he does, seems to have washed out.

I felt the same (transitory but nonetheless real) sadness when I worked with a National Merit Scholar who had gone to college, found out that even the State University was more than he could handle, and quit school (though he had a B average) because he just couldn't face it. Every day, he kicked himself for wasting the opportunity; he was caught in the trap that without a college degree, he couldn't make enough money to set aside some to go back and finish the degree.

The best-case scenario for this kid is that he takes a semester off to deal with whatever his personal issues are and is back in school this fall, whether or not he plays basketball. I'm adamant that college isn't an opportunity to play basketball; basketball is a way to get a chance to go to college. The options for professional success in this country if you don't get a college degree are minimal and require lots of hard work and a fair amount of luck, and the longer you're out of school the less likely it is you'll successfully go back.

So, yeah, it doesn't require hyperbole or a constant state of crushing depression to experience a moment of sadness when someone who had an opportunity to increase his chances of succeeding in this world doesn't live out that opportunity - especially if it doesn't sound like a choice. Leaving college due to personal problems after a semester and a half of it, during which you weren't really able to make friends or fit in, doesn't sound much like, "I'm leaving because I've realized college isn't my dream and I want to do something else with my life."

You'll note I also pointed out that an awful lot of other freshmen will wash out this year, and that also makes me sad to think about - even a little more so than this, because no one really thinks twice about a National Merit full scholarship engineering student who burns out a week into the first semester, but that's a promise just as bright or brighter that's fading away.

So he doesn't fit your personal criteria for Epic Homeric Collegiate Tragedy, complete with coal mines, and rain, and mamas, and prison, and dogs. Doesn't mean it's not a little sad to see.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

badger - don't forget

and trains

(sorry, it sounded like a part of an old country song)

badger 9 years, 5 months ago

TOB said:

"It's also bad to leave all your possessions in your apt and make your roommate wonder what's going on (Robinson is his roommate). It's also bad to inform your coach that you have left the team by a phone call from Seattle. For whatever reason the ljworld didn't report this yet the KC Star did."

JW reported the second part (the phone call), but not the first.

You know, it would take an awful lot for me to just walk out on all my stuff without telling a roommate. It's not something I'd do in a fit of pique. I'd have to be facing some serious personal issues, or hard core depression to do that. Or something would have had to change in a brewing situation that mandated me shifting plans forward somewhat.

There is the possibility that it's just a spoiled young man running home because the coach didn't play nicey-nice with him. There is also the possibility that something is really wrong in his life, and it's pretty low-class to talk trash about a total stranger (whose personal life you feel comfortable dissecting because he chose to play basketball) when you don't really know what he is or isn't facing.

badger 9 years, 5 months ago

TOB and mom_of_three:

It was in fact a reference. "I was drunk the day my mama got out of prison..."

badger 9 years, 5 months ago

BTW, TOB, I wasn't calling you low-class. Only the first sentence was specifically directed at you.

Confrontation 9 years, 5 months ago

Maybe Downs was just depressed. It seems like a lot of kids who get everything handed to them tend to get depressed. Free education must equal depression.

kutwitch 9 years, 5 months ago

To the nazis who are calling people fair weather fans for critizing Self: there is loyalty and there is stupidity. You are the same people saying it is unAmerican to criticize the president. Personally my loyalty is earned and not given away blindly. Self is still in the process of earning my loyalty and, from what I read here, the loyalty of a lot of fans. And by the way coaching from the stands is the nature of all sports. Sports are entertainment and in college and pro sports they exist only because of the fans. No fans=no money=no sports. As fans we all have something invested in this team including time, money, and love. As an investor I have the right to voice my opinion. And so does everybody else...

Ceallach 9 years, 5 months ago

badger: that is what I was trying to say :) [not to TOB -- the other stuff:]

I was very upset when I read the article and saw the Div I coach talking about personal details of a very young player's life and doing so in such a high handed manner. Yes, coaches have egos, does that mean they should deride a student (not a pro and not an employee -- this is a college student) to be sure everyone understands that the student's weaknesses were responsible for him leaving and not (heaven forbid) any weakness in the coach. Sounded like a lot of CYA going on at Downs expense.

Manson 9 years, 5 months ago

"There is the possibility that it's just a spoiled young man running home because the coach didn't play nicey-nice with him. There is also the possibility that something is really wrong in his life, and it's pretty low-class to talk trash about a total stranger (whose personal life you feel comfortable dissecting because he chose to play basketball) when you don't really know what he is or isn't facing."-Badger

The possibility that he is a spoiled player far out weighs the possibility that there are legitimate "personal problems". The personal problems he is refering to is the fact that he isn't getting playing time. He went to 7 diffrent highschools in highschool shopping arround to be the big man on his team. He moaned at the McDonalds all American game about playing only 11 minutes. This behavior is indicitive of a selfish and impatient player. These traits are projected upon him from his parrents who reinforce to him that he is the best young player arround....well he isin't and when momma was crying after the All American game about his playing time was a huge indication of their expectations. How the hell can you justify crying over minutes played in an EXHABITION game?

This kid was thinking about going to the NBA? The NBA has 6'8" guys that would eat him alive. 6'8" and 250/260/270 lbs. Micha has delusions of granduer. It's sad though because his parrents are probably the source and feed him this false sense of ability. Micha didn't want to commit to gaining muscle mass and defense. That is why he wasn't playing and had he been more patient and willing to work he would have realized that Rush will be gone soon and the competition for playing time will diminish. However i woudn't want a player that dosn't want to fight for his playing time. Instead he wants to shop arround untill he is the center piece of a program. It's too bad you can't do that 7 times in Collage basketball.

It's too coincidental that he leaves when he isn't being played just like in highschool. He really screwed himself on this one because now he will loose playing time to keep skills sharp, valueable coaching, and a FREE EDUCATION from a major University.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

TOB & Badger - thought so - know the David Allen Coe song well....

my mamma got ran over by a danged ole train!!

kutwitch - quick to call names - never been called a nazi before - and I know it doesn't fit me since I am of jewish descent!! Agree to disagree, stop call people names (nazi vs fairweather fan.... =/=equal), and shut up about it!!

Support your team, support your coach and GO JAYHAWKS!

Hong_Kong_Phooey 9 years, 5 months ago

The KU men's basketball team. What to do, what to do. We've got one of the most talented, but lazy, players in Brandon Rush. If he would actually play with his heart instead of worrying about his ranking in the NBA draft, he might turn out to be better than all of his brothers. As it is now, I wouldn't draft him into the NBA because of his lazy streak. I would want a consist performer. You know...if I were in charge of an NBA team.

Micah Downs had potential but I think he was immature. Nothing you can do about it. Some kids mature faster than others, regardless of their status as a McDonald's All-American.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

sports talk radio had some interesting comments....just more rumors to add to the mill...........

beatrice 9 years, 5 months ago

badger -- I agree, this doesn't reach Homeric proportions. As always you state your case well, but this still doesn't make me sad. Not even for the duration of a transitory moment.

nazis? We appear to be knee deep in hyperbole around here today.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

H_K_P - agree, but Rush is getting better. Maybe he is listening to those with more experience - all those coaches, perhaps. I hope he waits a year or two before entering the draft. It didn't hurt Drew Gooden or Paul Pierce any to wait. And they seem to have good careers, better than the other two Rush brothers.(Kareem does have 12 ppg ave this year and he may have finished school. Hope Downs works out whatever it is.....gets a college degree and finds something or somewhere to make him happy.

dviper 9 years, 5 months ago

Manson

After reading your comments, why did Bill Self recruit Micah? Don't your comments reflect negatively toward Bill Self and the KU BB program as well? Do you feel the same way or worse about Rush? He has a very well published past about his behavior and antics.

badger 9 years, 5 months ago

Manson -

My apologies. I hadn't realized you were intimately close enough to his personal situation to offer the inside scoop on the matter.

I didn't realize that we had anyone posting here with so much accurate information as to his motivations, decisions, history, and actions. Did you get to say goodbye when you saw him off at the airport after the long discussion in which he explained his reasons to you?

Unless, of course, it's just speculation you're flinging, your interpretation of someone else's life and motives based on talking heads from sports radio, newspaper sportswriters, and your own assumptions.

I'm not so much defending him as saying that some folks seem to have an awful lot of ugly to throw around about someone they've most likely never even seen at a distance of less than thirty yards, and probably never spoken with in person.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

kutwitch -

I never said you couldn't coach from the stands...you seemed to miss the point....I implied you were coaching from the stands because you aren't THE COACH.

I yell as loud as anyone else, but unlike yourself, I hestitate to think I am good enough to second guess a coach such as Bill Self or the rest of his staff.

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

alright kids, time to get back to work....

Good luck, Downs!! you seem to need it....

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!

Beat A & M!!

PLEASE!!

beatrice 9 years, 5 months ago

badger: "some folks seem to have an awful lot of ugly to throw around about someone they've most likely never even seen at a distance of less than thirty yards, and probably never spoken with in person." I didn't realize we were back to criticizing the President again? Now there is one head coach I'd like to see fired!

Ceallach 9 years, 5 months ago

Hey, I actually do have a clan!!! The Ceallaigh Clan!! And we can pitch hyperbole (blarney or anything else) with the best of them :)

Manson 9 years, 5 months ago

"After reading your comments, why did Bill Self recruit Micah? Don't your comments reflect negatively toward Bill Self and the KU BB program as well? Do you feel the same way or worse about Rush? He has a very well published past about his behavior and antics."-dviper

Self recruited Micha because he is a good player. Rush is a unique situation because he was a last minute acquisition. Rush has produced and does produce because he is a better player.

When I spoke about behavior with regards to Micha it was to illustrate that he moves arround untill he gets his desired results. That behavior was significant to my point since it relates to his decision to leave. What Rush has to do with your point I don't know. His behavior in the past is speculation. Micha's behavior is undeniable fact. For example 7 highschools in 4 years without moving residence. Was it the curriculum he didn't find satisfactory? What he was doing isn't new. It's commonplace within highschool athletics. I'm just saying it isn't effective for College BB and he screwed himself by not being patient (a trait he has shown which is also undeniable).

lovenhaight 9 years, 5 months ago

Ok, I'm a diehard Jayhawk fan, but I don't think I would equate the position of KU head coach with the President of the United States. I might be inclined to say that Self might do a better job as the president when compared to the jackass in office...but that is another matter.

As far as bashing someone we don't personally know, specifically Downs, there are some of us who have had personal interaction with him in different capacities who still don't know why he actually left. If the only response you can give is "personal reasons", then something isn't on the up and up. It is a fact that Downs really didn't tell Self until yesterday afternoon, and I don't care whether anyone knows him or not, that observation shows a lack of respect for the University. If Self didn't know he was leaving until he was already back in Seattle, doesn't it stand to reason that he didn't bother to tell KU until he had already left? I know that my college education isn't that disposable for ANY reason, so the idea that someone can give that up for personal reasons that are more than superficial is totally foreign to me, and I would bet that it is to a lot of others.

beatrice 9 years, 5 months ago

Now this makes me sad. bea

Bush Explains Medicare Drug Bill -- Verbatim Quote (2-4-2005, Tampa)

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: 'I don't really understand. How is it the new plan is going to fix the problem?'

Verbatim response: PRESIDENT BUSH: 'Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculated, for example, is on the table. Whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to that has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the -- like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate -- the benefits will rise based upon inflation, supposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those -- if that growth is affected, it will help on the red.'

Manson 9 years, 5 months ago

Well said Love,

I'd also like to address the 6 transfers in 2.5 years of coaching. The morons that suscribe to this as a valid indication of the program having issues are blind.

1.) David Padgett- Roy's recruit left cause Roy left. Self's fault? NO

2.) Alex Galindo- Well documented he was homesick. said it himself and has been quoted as desiring a place to play closer to home. Self can't cure homesickness no coach can. And Alex was getting plenty of play time. Self's fault ? NO

3.) JR Giddens. Violated team rules (strict rules concerning presence at an alcoholic establishment when he was underage). By being at the bar and participating in a fight he cost the TEAM his service which was very valuable. Broke the law on several charges. He left to start fresh. Self's fault? NO

4.) Micha. Had either no good reason to leave OR left due to circumstances that ANY coach cannot fix. Self's fault? NO

What is 6-4? = 2

2 transfers within 2.5 years is acceptable and commonplace especially when you have an Elite program chocked full of tallent.

badger 9 years, 5 months ago

Oddly, beatrice, I'll defend the heck out of anyone who wants to criticize things the President does on the job, but generally don't so much think they're good eggs if they start speculating about his personal life. I've been guilty of it, and when I realize I've crossed from "He's a bad President" into "He personally eats babies," I try to stop.

Same thing here. It goes beyond what sort of a basketball player this kid is or was, and starts getting into a lot of rampant speculation (except for Manson, who's OBVIOUSLY so privy to all of Micah Downs' personal insights, motivations, and decisions) about his personal life and character.

I know that if I walked out of a situation because I had serious issues to deal with elsewhere in my life, and I opted not to comment about the details of my personal life (I wonder why he might not opt to share intimate details with the fans, given the deep compassion of such statements as "A little too far from home for these little babies?" or "The possibility that he is a spoiled player far out weighs the possibility that there are legitimate 'personal problems'."), I really wouldn't want a bunch of people sitting around speculating about the details and motivations in my personal life as if they actually knew something about it. So, on the off chance that all the finger-pointers are wrong and this kid is facing something serious, I'd just like to see people lay off trashing him personally.

Good grief, some people seem to think that just because someone joins the blasted team they root for, they have a right to sit him under a magnifying glass, demand total access to the details of his life, dictate how he will and will not act, and idly speculate about him like he was a fictional character things were about to happen to on a sitcom. Who cares who gets in bar fights, and how many Bibles Wayne Simien had in his truck, and what David Beckham had for lunch last Tuesday, and why some football player has long hair, and whether another athlete had affairs and illegitimate children? Until it affects their game performance or the team's performance, what business is it of anyone else's?

And don't give me the 'role model' line. If you can't teach your kids that a football player who works with charity is a better role model than a basketball player who gets picked up with hookers and cocaine, you're probably not teaching them lots of other important things, as well.

People deserve to have lives, and they deserve to have some semblance of private lives without reporting the minutiae to the peanut gallery. Being a public figure does not, in fact, give your fans license to become engaged in your life just because they like/respect/hate/oppose your work. Ask David Letterman how he feels about that.

RonBurgandy 9 years, 5 months ago

Of course he had every reason to leave, it's his choice. It sucks though, he could have been a big part of this team in the future.

Personally, I think he should have had more playing time during that stretch of duds we played so he could maybe develop his game a little more.

And to the people who complain when people criticize the coach, everyone has the right to do this. Just b/c a coach was successful at one place, doesn't guarantee success at another. Said coach has to prove him or herself each time and not bank on the past. Self still needs to show me he can coach successfully here with his own recruits.

wonderhorse 9 years, 5 months ago

badger

I sort of agree with you, and sort of don't. I agree that college kids should have their private lives--in a lot of cases, they have problems dealing with themselves without having to deal with the press, public, etc., because they are not yet fully mature. On the other hand, professional athletes (or actors/actresses, singers, etc.), while having a right to privacy, should expect to have more of their personal life on display. Why? Because their salary is paid for by the public. I'm still not sure in my own mind how much is enough, and how much is too much. I respect Charles Barkley, but his comment that athletes should not be role models, parents should--while on target--is just a little naive. I think that the press reporting the peccadilloes of "stars" shows the impressionable that they (the stars), too, are human, just like your parents. On the other hand, they should be able to go out shopping for groceries without having a camera stuck in their faces.

As I said, I'm just not quite sure how much is too much.

Manson 9 years, 5 months ago

" Self still needs to show me he can coach successfully here with his own recruits."

Which is why we need to keep last year's early tournament exit in perspective. The leaders of that were all Roy's boys as well as Jeff hawkins and Christian. People don't want to look at the transition period here with any objectivity. Perspective people!!! Can't judge Self untill he has junior or seniors that are LEADING his teams under HIS play style.

HighScore 9 years, 5 months ago

Beatrice,

"High Score: "Roy Williams seemed to foster a family environment with his team." Perhaps, but unfortunately he ended up being like the father who winds up abandoning his wife and kids to go live with another woman and her kids. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll always prefer a coach (and players as well) who want to be there rather than those dreaming of being somewhere else."

Isn't that exactly what Bill Self did when he came here from Illinois?

I'm sorry, I think you took me alittle too literally when I mentioned a family environment. I am referring more to the high regard that players have for Williams. You don't see that in the way players act or react to Self.

RonBurgandy 9 years, 5 months ago

It's just so hard to get over the loss to K-State, and the way we lost to Mizzocrappyuri, and now this...

Come on, just give us some good stuff...

LesterBurnham 9 years, 5 months ago

Self is currently the best coach in college basketball, in every aspect.

He replaced a coach, Williams, that consitently under-performed for the talent he recruited. Williams won't ever win it all again, considering he can't match the talented recruits that he was givin at N.C.

Self has dramatically improved every basketball school he has coached. Bill Self is the messiah. He will bring KU many national championships.

Manson 9 years, 5 months ago

"I'm sorry, I think you took me alittle too literally when I mentioned a family environment. I am referring more to the high regard that players have for Williams. You don't see that in the way players act or react to Self"

I'll disagree on this one. You can find players of both coaches that feel both ways. You may not see this relationship with Self though I am sure it exists with former players and current ones as well. Again Perspective is key when making any evaluation on Coach Self since he has yet to have a team that is entirely his. With that in mind you can conclude that this transisiton period will have a wide range of relationship strengths and weaknesses.

RonBurgandy 9 years, 5 months ago

Very optimistic...

...but I think the "good ole boy" has an equal, if not better class of recruits coming in next year.

RonBurgandy 9 years, 5 months ago

Ooh, good screen name Bill, I would have never guessed...

mom_of_three 9 years, 5 months ago

aahh, lester... a man after my own heart....

i hope it rings true...

Ceallach 9 years, 5 months ago

Well Lester, I'm happy that you have found your messiah. Some of us already have one, and one is all anyone needs.

billybeanbag 9 years, 5 months ago

I'm only sad in the way it's sad to see someone not stick with a chance to develop into a starter.

I just can't believe how many people are already questioning the Jayhawks and their coach. This is a young team, they're going to lose some games people think they should win, and they're going to win some games people think they should lose.

There is no doubt in my mind that this is a rebuilding year, and if the fans are too fickle to watch and enjoy the growth, then maybe they're not true Jayhawks. I haven't been a college hoops fan my entire life, but the more I watch KU hoops, the more I've learned about how the game is played, different coaching styles, and I've started noticing traits in players that point to them having a lot of talent. Let me tell you, these kids have a lot of talent, but it takes time for a jeweller to shape a diamond.

Give Self some time before you pat him on the back while sliding a blade between his ribs.

linux_chick 9 years, 5 months ago

It was sadder to see the Simien, Miles, Lee, Langford quad go. Downs will be fine and KU is going to struggle this season regardless.

missmagoo 9 years, 5 months ago

Can I get a refund for my Downs jersey I just bought?

sharron5rs 9 years, 5 months ago

Daddy Daddy I'm not playing. Spoiled and a quitter.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 5 months ago

bla bla bla...

"sad" no...more sad at the excessive elevation of college sports atheletes and their "lives..."

shocking I know, I actually agree w/Bea...not Re the president in her driveby swipe above but Re the treatment of athletes.

anybody know who is KU's greatest chess champion? thought not. sorry, dunno myself, that's been covered over by all the testosterone fountain of sports coverage...bla bla bla, my team...my coach...my players...my school's team...bla bla bla... [all that basking in reflected glory...]

bearded_gnome 9 years, 5 months ago

OMB...leave some o' 'dem nachos for me too ya' bum.

lunacydetector 9 years, 5 months ago

who's micah downs and why would i be sad to see her leave?

pierced_daisy 9 years, 5 months ago

So Micah Downs has left. Big Friggin deal. Unfortunately, his parents built him up emotionally skills wise than he really is. HES JUST A FRESHMAN IN COLLEGE. I doubt any NBA team will take a freshman in college seriously who left a great college team to spend more time with his girlfriend. I mean, cmon, he didnt get much play time because he is FRESHMAN. KU basketball players need to try to step down from their holy platform and realize that they too are human and that being a basketball player PRO doesnt overrride the need for a college education to fall back on when they are retired from the NBA. Micah has already shown the world that he is pussy footed and will resign his post based upon girlfriend needs and "playtime" issues. HEY MICAH! YOURE A ROOKIE! GET USED TO IT! YOU NEED TO MAKE A NAME FOR YOURSELF AND LEARN HOW TO LIVE AWAY FROM YOUR MAMA LONGER THAN A WEEK TO SURVIVE IN THE REAL WORLD!!!! They dont let freshman med students operate; quit the program and become a first rate surgeon the next year...........so why would any NBA team accept a person who can't deal with homesickness, less play time that is accepted for a rookie especially when you proven yourself as a quitter?

GROW UP, GROW SOME NADS, AND WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!

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